BNP crisis as Nick Griffin faces jail over whites-only policy

[Loki]

BNP crisis as Nick Griffin faces jail over whites-only policy (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6982345.ece)

The British National party is facing a crisis in the run-up to the general election after it emerged that Nick Griffin, its leader, could be jailed over its illegal “whites only” membership policy.

Whitehall officials believe Griffin will be unable to comply in time with a court order forcing him to change the BNP’s constitution to admit Asians, blacks and members of other ethnic minorities.

They say the BNP’s membership is not due to vote on the constitutional change until after the court deadline expires towards the end of this month. Trevor Phillips, head of the government’s equalities watchdog, which won the legal ruling three months ago, has instructed his lawyers to be ready to ask the court to impose crippling sanctions, including a heavy fine or possible jail term against Griffin and Simon Darby, the BNP’s deputy leader.

If successful, the move could paralyse the right-wing party at a time when many at Westminster believe it is on the verge of winning its first seat in parliament with the support of disillusioned former Labour and Tory voters.

Officials question whether the head of a political party who has been imprisoned, fined or has had his assets sequestrated could continue to be its leader.

“The BNP is very much Nick Griffin’s party,” said one official. “Were he forced to stand down three months before an election, then what are the prospects for the party? He could be replaced by someone who was much more hardcore. They would potentially be in disarray.”

The legal action began last year when the Equality and Human Rights Commission issued county court proceedings against Griffin, Darby and Tanya Lumby, another senior BNP official.

The watchdog argued that the BNP’s constitution was unlawful because it restricted membership to particular ethnic groups and those whose skin colour is white.

Last October Judge Paul Collins agreed and awarded costs against the party. Griffin was forced to order a freeze on membership applications. The court gave him until January 28 to persuade the party to change its constitution and allow non-whites to join.

However, Griffin is unlikely to be able to deliver the change in time.

[Murphy]

They wont be stupid enough to arrest Griffin.

Regards,
The Papist.

[Freomæg]

The establishment are currently in a tricky position. They need to tread a very fine line between villifying Griffin and making a martyr of him. Confidence in, not only the mainstream parties themselves but the mainstream media too, is at all an all-time low and I daresay the establishment would actually be better off ignoring Griffin completely because every time they slander him the people just see him as a real, viable alternative.

[Tony]

It's very good if Griffin take more and more attention by the media , even if they do that in order to label him as a xenophobe and give the BNP a bad reputation (because in their private a lot of Britons are so they don't feel it like a shame , only leftists think of xenophobia as a sin)but it wouldn't be good at all if he were arrested , also because it wouldn't be so easy to lead a party from behind the bars.
I hope he will act rationally , for now he's got to acknolwedge the system is much more powerful than him , let's change this "whites only" recruitment rule , there will not be many asians or africans wishing to join the party I suppose.
Also Cameron has spoken about "slashing immigration by 75%" , they can feel the BNP getting closer , let's not waste this opportunity.

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by The Papist
They wont be stupid enough to arrest Griffin.

Why not? They did in 2004….

The political establishment will do what it takes, the BNP are their own worse enemy, personally I believe they could be shut down and ridiculed in the time it takes me to boil a kettle, Nick made himself look foolish on QT and only escaped complete embarrassment due to the farcical nature of the show and the ineptitude of the rest of the panel.

I’m intrigued that they have been allowed to run for as long as they have. Thatcher shut down the NF but it seems the cat still has a use for the BNP ball of wool. I don’t think Nick will be arrested either, nor do I think the party will be banned, there are other more subtle ways, rope give enough….

[Freomæg]

I’m intrigued that they have been allowed to run for as long as they have. Thatcher shut down the NF but it seems the cat still has a use for the BNP ball of wool.
It would seem Liberalism does have its uses :rolleyes2:

[Murphy]

Why not? They did in 2004….

He's too public now. They'll make a martyr out of him.

Regards,
The Papist.

[Fortis in Arduis]

He's too public now. They'll make a martyr out of him.

Regards,
The Papist.

It does not mean that they will not try.

Criminal proceedings are how the Liberal Establishment like to smear the party, even if it backfires, they might hope that it would prevent an election victory, in the short-term, if nothing else.

[Equinox]

"Whites only"

Pretty ridiculous position for a nationalist Party anywhere in Europe.

[Agrippa]

"Whites only"

Pretty ridiculous position for a nationalist Party anywhere in Europe.

Why?

Genflow and cultural exchange between Europeans was always present and rarely endangered the existence of a nation to a similar degree as does the mass immigration of non-integrable foreigners = non-Europeans = in a certain terminology "non-whites".

[Lulletje Rozewater]

Why?

Genflow and cultural exchange between Europeans was always present and rarely endangered the existence of a nation to a similar degree as does the mass immigration of non-integrable foreigners = non-Europeans = in a certain terminology "non-whites".

Surely there must be a loophole for the BNP

[Loki]

Why?

Genflow and cultural exchange between Europeans was always present and rarely endangered the existence of a nation to a similar degree as does the mass immigration of non-integrable foreigners = non-Europeans = in a certain terminology "non-whites".

I agree with Equinox, though. It is not necessary for a nationalist party to slap on the label "whites only". What good would that do? It only stigmatizes the party even more as racist, and will lead to the party getting fewer votes ... and hence relegating it to political obscurity and total inefficiency. Basically, it's an own goal.

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Loki
I agree with Equinox, though. It is not necessary for a nationalist party to slap on the label "whites only". What good would that do? It only stigmatizes the party even more as racist, and will lead to the party getting fewer votes ... and hence relegating it to political obscurity and total inefficiency. Basically, it's an own goal.

So it’s preferable for the BNP to be deceptive, con the public into voting for a party that doesn’t actually stand by it’s public image…….which would prove the establishment’s point correct (Nazis in suits) and show the BNP as just another party willing to say anything to get a few votes….I'm assuming that the average BNP member and it's leadership still support the core principles of the party here.

The BNP’s days are probably already numbered as it is, they will either conform to the established political system and water down their message to the point that the party no longer serves any purpose…or they will be banned. The alternative is that their message no longer has any relevance and they will die a quiet death as most small parties do.

But to do as you suggest will, I believe, essentially mean them lying to the public, which isn’t going to help restore confidence (if one can have confidence in Britain’s political system anyway).

[Loki]

So it’s preferable for the BNP to be deceptive, con the public into voting for a party that doesn’t actually stand by it’s public image…….which would prove the establishment’s point correct (Nazis in suits) and show the BNP as just another party willing to say anything to get a few votes….I'm assuming that the average BNP member and it's leadership still support the core principles of the party here.

---

But to do as you suggest will, I believe, essentially mean them lying to the public, which isn’t going to help restore confidence (if one can have confidence in Britain’s political system anyway).

Actually, no ... the point is that few non-whites will want to join the BNP anyway. Hence the label is superfluous. It is not about being deceptive. Everyone knows that the BNP stands for the ethnic British peoples ... and is opposed to immigration, multiculturalism etc etc ... so what is the need to put a "whites only" policy on the party? It only gives the enemies of the party more ammunition to use against it, as we can clearly see in the OP.

[Agrippa]

What do you think about this comments:
http://theforbiddentruth.net/vbtube_show.php?do=tube&tubeid=829

[Loki]

What do you think about this comments:
http://theforbiddentruth.net/vbtube_show.php?do=tube&tubeid=829

I stopped reading when I reached the 20th "Jew" mention.

[Equinox]

Why?

Genflow and cultural exchange between Europeans was always present and rarely endangered the existence of a nation to a similar degree as does the mass immigration of non-integrable foreigners = non-Europeans = in a certain terminology "non-whites".

The BNP is:

a) A nationalist party
b) A pan-nationalist party
c) Not remotely nationalist whatsoever, caring only for some bizarre New World social construct based on skin pigmentation.

Take your pick! :rolleyes:

By your logic, the large Eastern European (white) communities in Great Britain are to be easily assimilated? :eek:

Science aside, that is not the position any nationalist party in Europe should hold.

[Grumpy Cat]

Actually, no ... the point is that few non-whites will want to join the BNP anyway.

Haven't British Sikhs supported the BNP in the past over their stance on immigration from Muslim countries?

Either way, I agree with what you are saying, the "whites only" policy just makes them look racist. Aren't they supposed to stand for ethnic English people? Then they should say "Englishmen only", because "whites only" in addition to sounding racist, is also vague, since the term "white" could refer to 1 billion people on this planet, not all of them British.

[Fortis in Arduis]

Look the whole deal is that there are hundreds of organisations which are for non-white British citizens, but only ONE for native Brits.

That is, or should be the BNP. That is why the BNP had/has a 'whites only' policy.

It is/was fair enough.

So, do not knock the BNP.

OK. :mad: ;) :)

[Grumpy Cat]

Look the whole deal is that there are hundreds of organisations which are for non-white British citizens, but only ONE for native Brits.

That is, or should be the BNP. That is why the BNP had/has a 'whites only' policy.

It is/was fair enough.

So, do not knock the BNP.

OK. :mad: ;) :)

Wouldn't it make more sense to have a British only policy? Because I'm white too, but it would not make sense for me to join the BNP.

[Beorn]

Haven't British Sikhs supported the BNP in the past over their stance on immigration from Muslim countries?

They certainly have. Linky pinky. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/nov/20/sikh-man-bnp-member) Although some sections of the press (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/dec/23/race.politics) must have had a slow day at the office several years back and managed to confuse multiracial concern for the rise of Islam in Britain for a join of "extremist groups".

How times they are a changing.


Aren't they supposed to stand for ethnic English people?

If by 'ethnic English' you mean to also correctly say ethnic Welsh, Scottish, Irish and Cornish, then yes, they do.

[Equinox]

If by 'ethnic English' you mean to also correctly say ethnic Welsh, Scottish, Irish and Cornish, then yes, they do.

I am sure you've advocated English independence so many times on this forum that it's a well established policy of yours.

Given that, it seems you consider England to be a nation inside Britain.

Does this mean, for you at least, that the BNP are not nationalist, but rather pan-nationalist? Or am I the only one that feels as though there is a problem with consistency here? :)

[Murphy]

If Griffin gets the jail, I'm joining the BNP for shits and giggles.

Regards,
The Papist.

[SwordoftheVistula]

'Whites only' is a media term, not one the BNP used, the term the BNP used was 'indigenous and closely related peoples'


Surely there must be a loophole for the BNP

What they are doing now is putting in place a freeze on membership in the official party, and sending people to join the 'Trafalgar Club' instead

[Beorn]

Does this mean, for you at least, that the BNP are not nationalist, but rather pan-nationalist? Or am I the only one that feels as though there is a problem with consistency here? :)

Yes, you are correct. I don't consider the BNP to be a nationalist party. I don't think you are the only one who notices and raises this inconsistency to people's attention.

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Equinox
Or am I the only one that feels as though there is a problem with consistency here?

Technically there is on two counts:

Once can you have a British nationalist party when Britain itself is not a nation i.e. of common ancestry but rather a state comprised of several nations?

Second should the BNP allow membership to non-British Europeans?

To be fair the BNP do follow a federalist model in their position as regards the UK and, at least when I was a member, there was some debate over the possibility of the BNP essentially developing into more of an English nationalist party what with their relative poor showing in Welsh, Scottish and Ulster elections as compared to English elections.


Originally Posted by SwordoftheVistula
'Whites only' is a media term, not one the BNP used, the term the BNP used was 'indigenous and closely related peoples'

This is true but it does, effectively, still amount to the same thing. Since a nation is an organism composed of members of common ancestry, and the nations of the British Isles are of northern European racial background, it’s a pretty unavoidable conclusion. Unless the BNP would move to accept mixed race people with European heritage or change their stance to a so called “civic nationalism”. The media are, in my opinion, only stating what the BNP actually mean but don’t state explicitly for fear of being branded “racist”. Perhaps if they dropped their policy of allowing European membership they may find it easier to defend. After all would a third generation Asian or West Indian not be justified in asking how come this nationalist party allows a Pole to join but not them if their stance is trully nationalist? On that I can understand why some would say the BNP should avoid the "whites only line" they are either a nationalist party or a white rights pressure group but presumably not both.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Why not go for "British citizenship holders only" instead of "whites only"? There can't be that many Pakis with British citizenship unless they're being handed out like candy.

[poiuytrewq0987]

To be fair the BNP do follow a federalist model in their position as regards the UK and, at least when I was a member, there was some debate over the possibility of the BNP essentially developing into more of an English nationalist party what with their relative poor showing in Welsh, Scottish and Ulster elections as compared to English elections.

I would not be surprised if the BNP ended up that way.

[Beorn]

Why not go for "British citizenship holders only" instead of "whites only"? There can't be that many Pakis with British citizenship unless they're being handed out like candy.

It is being handed out like candy. Good idea though.

[poiuytrewq0987]

It is being handed out like candy. Good idea though.

If not that, then the BNP can try to come up with a different criteria. A good one is probably making the families who haven't lived on the Isles for 100 years or more ineligible. That should take care of the problem indirectly without bringing up race.

[Beorn]

If not that, then the BNP can try to come up with a different criteria. A good one is probably making the families who haven't lived on the Isles for 100 years or more ineligible. That should take care of the problem indirectly without bringing up race.

I've often thought the BNP should just disband and regroup under the guise of an English nationalist party.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I've often thought the BNP should just disband and regroup under the guise of an English nationalist party.

That would bring an end to the UK and the start of the Balkanization of the British Isles... that is if such party won a majority in the parliament.

[Beorn]

That would bring an end to the UK and the start of the Balkanization of the British Isles... that is if such party won a majority in the parliament.

It would not be anything that isn't already occurring within the Union anyway. Scotland has next to full independence, and Wales is very close behind. The only nation not being represented on an equal footing is the English.

If the BNP disbanded and returned under the banner of representing the Ethnic English, they would have the law on their side and, I would have thought, a wider pool with which to attract votes.

[SwordoftheVistula]

If not that, then the BNP can try to come up with a different criteria. A good one is probably making the families who haven't lived on the Isles for 100 years or more ineligible. That should take care of the problem indirectly without bringing up race.

That would also be totally obvious in intent and labeled as 'racially exclusive', just like the policy they had prior to the court order.

Also, from my understanding, since Britain was the first country to undergo the Industrial Revolution, they have attracted a large number of immigrants from around Europe, on up to the post-WWII years when they attracted political refugees from east/central Europe and in the early days of the EU people from the poorer countries, and all these people basically integrated, unlike the current crop, especially the muslims. Also, since Britain had such a large empire, there are English people all over the world. The proposed narrowing of the membership rules suggested here would still be labeled as racist as well as excluding their current top leadership (Nick Griffin is Welsh and Arthur Kemp is Rhodesian), as well as some of their earlist elected officials (Nick Geri being Italian and the Richardsons being Jewish)


If the BNP disbanded and returned under the banner of representing the Ethnic English, they would have the law on their side

From the version of the law that I've seen, it would have the same effect. The 'Scottish National Party' and its Welsh counterpart don't fall under the law since they are civic nationalist parties and actively recruit racial minorities. So if an 'English National Party' refuses to admit an Abdul Muhammad Al-Jihad who lives in London, holds British citizenship, and is a fan of English Football, then they'd still run afoul of the law.

[Beorn]

From the version of the law that I've seen, it would have the same effect. The 'Scottish National Party' and its Welsh counterpart don't fall under the law since they are civic nationalist parties and actively recruit racial minorities. So if an 'English National Party' refuses to admit an Abdul Muhammad Al-Jihad who lives in London, holds British citizenship, and is a fan of English Football, then they'd still run afoul of the law.

But there is a clear leap between having British citizenship and being ethnically English. So much so that it has now been accommodated by law, and cases have been brought forward, and won, using this law.