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Loki
04-26-2014, 09:56 PM
I was browsing Wikipedia and found this interesting entry:


Chinese exclusion policy of NASA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_exclusion_policy_of_NASA)

Due to security concerns, all researchers from the U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) are prohibited from working bilaterally with Chinese citizens affiliated with a Chinese state enterprise or entity. In April 2011, the 112th United States Congress banned NASA from using its funds to host Chinese visitors at NASA facilities.

History

Despite growing trade ties between both countries, a close scientific partnership with China has been rejected by several American politicians including Rep. Frank Wolf (R-VA), who in 1999 stated:

"They (China) are the evil empire".

In 2010, Rep. John Culberson (R-TX) urged President Barack Obama not to allow further contact between NASA and the China National Space Administration (CNSA). In a letter addressed to the President, he wrote:

"I have grave concerns about the nature and goals of China’s space program and strongly oppose any cooperation between NASA and CNSA’s human space flight programs without Congressional authorization."

In April 2011, the 112th United States Congress banned NASA from engaging in bilateral agreements and coordination with China.

Response

Increased cooperation between China, Europe and Russia

Since the mid-2000s, China, Russia and Europe have been working together towards manned deep space exploration as highlighted by Mars-500, a joint Chinese-European-Russian experiment that will provide ground-based studies to complement orbital research in preparation for a planned manned mission to Mars. In 2011, the German Aerospace Center collaborated with Chinese scientists in the Shenzhou program, marking the first time both countries worked together on one of China's Shenzhou missions.

Criticism

Geoffrey Marcy, an astronomy professor at the University of California, Berkeley, called the ban "completely shameful and unethical". Sir Martin Rees, the current Astronomer Royal of Great Britain, called the ban a "deplorable 'own goal' by the US".

In 2013, a number of American scientists decided to boycott a NASA meeting, with senior academics either withdrawing individually, or pulling out their entire research groups. This was in response to actions by officials at NASA Ames to prohibit Chinese nationals from attending the Kepler Science Conference II. Rep. Frank Wolf was quick to respond in a letter to NASA Administrator Charlie Bolden, saying that the restriction only applied to bilateral meetings and activities between NASA and the Chinese government or Chinese-owned companies. The NASA Ames officials had mischaracterized the law as Kepler Science Conference II is a multilateral event.

zhaoyun
04-26-2014, 10:31 PM
It makes sense as China is the most likely future competitor to the US in space.

Loki
04-26-2014, 11:04 PM
It makes sense as China is the most likely future competitor to the US in space.

Not really, that would be Russia. In fact, I believe Russia has always been ahead of the US in space (except for the moonlanding). They had the first satellite, the first man in space, the first space station, etc. And, the International Space Station - mostly used by America and Russia, will be brought down in a decade or so. It seems the US will not have any major project after that, but the Russians will:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_Piloted_Assembly_and_Experiment_Complex

zhaoyun
04-26-2014, 11:07 PM
Not really, that would be Russia. In fact, I believe Russia has always been ahead of the US in space (except for the moonlanding). They had the first satellite, the first man in space, the first space station, etc. And, the International Space Station - mostly used by America and Russia, will be brought down in a decade or so. It seems the US will not have any major project after that, but the Russians will:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_Piloted_Assembly_and_Experiment_Complex

Currently, yes, Russia's expertise and achievements are closest to the US. But China's space program is the one with the greatest amount of funding. So it is quite possible that in the next 15 years, they can emerge as a major competitor to the US. Although obviously at this stage where the US is still significantly farther ahead than China, there is no reason to cooperate and all the reason to deny China access to lucrative technology, I think in 15 years if/when China gets to a more comparable level of expertise to the US, then there will be a greater incentive for cooperation.

Loki
04-26-2014, 11:37 PM
Currently, yes, Russia's expertise and achievements are closest to the US. But China's space program is the one with the greatest amount of funding. So it is quite possible that in the next 15 years, they can emerge as a major competitor to the US. Although obviously at this stage where the US is still significantly farther ahead than China, there is no reason to cooperate and all the reason to deny China access to lucrative technology, I think in 15 years if/when China gets to a more comparable level of expertise to the US, then there will be a greater incentive for cooperation.

Russia's space expertise is ahead of the US. And I think, that even with a lot of funding, it would take China longer to catch up. But catch up they probably will.

Loki
04-26-2014, 11:40 PM
Btw Russia, Europe and China are working together on some space projects now. The US is the one that will fall behind eventually.

zhaoyun
04-26-2014, 11:40 PM
Russia's space expertise is ahead of the US. And I think, that even with a lot of funding, it would take China longer to catch up. But catch up they probably will.

I have to disagree that Russia's space expertise is ahead of the US, although it is comparable in many ways. Currently the US is in a slump due to lack of funding, and Russia's current capabilities at hand are ahead. Although American experience, achievements and scientific knowledge are still ahead of the Russians.

Loki
04-26-2014, 11:53 PM
I have to disagree that Russia's space expertise is ahead of the US, although it is comparable in many ways. Currently the US is in a slump due to lack of funding, and Russia's current capabilities at hand are ahead. Although American experience, achievements and scientific knowledge are still ahead of the Russians.

Based on what? Russia was the first to have space achievements, the US merely copied them. Russia holds most of the space records:

In 1957, the Soviet Union launched the world's first artificial satellite, Sputnik 1, thus starting the Space Age. Russian cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin became the first human to orbit the Earth aboard Vostok 1 manned spacecraft on 12 April 1961. (Wikipedia)

Russia also had the first space station, Mir.

zhaoyun
04-27-2014, 01:44 AM
Based on what? Russia was the first to have space achievements, the US merely copied them. Russia holds most of the space records:

In 1957, the Soviet Union launched the world's first artificial satellite, Sputnik 1, thus starting the Space Age. Russian cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin became the first human to orbit the Earth aboard Vostok 1 manned spacecraft on 12 April 1961. (Wikipedia)

Russia also had the first space station, Mir.

I'm aware that Russia was the first in several fields.

However, in terms of technical achievements, know how and experience, the US is still ahead.

The US is the only one to have landed on the moon.

The US is the only one to have carried on a long term shuttle program.

The US has had much more extensive Mars Rover experience than the Russians.

I'm sure I'm still missing several other fields, but those stand out in my mind.

Loki
04-27-2014, 01:35 PM
Of interest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Race

It all began when Americans and Soviets got hold of Nazi German rocket technology after Germany was defeated.

RussiaPrussia
04-27-2014, 02:32 PM
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/Successful_orbital_launches.jpg

Caismeachd
04-27-2014, 03:37 PM
Of interest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Race

It all began when Americans and Soviets got hold of Nazi German rocket technology after Germany was defeated.

Yeah, US had significant help from ex Nazi Wernher Von Braun (he is considered a hero in US and his Nazi affiliation was ignored.) Without Von Braun I doubt they would have had the same capabilities. I'm not familiar with the technologies Russia gained though.

Loki
04-28-2014, 03:20 PM
Despite growing trade ties between both countries, a close scientific partnership with China has been rejected by several American politicians including Rep. Frank Wolf (R-VA), who in 1999 stated:

"They (China) are the evil empire".



If China (who mostly minds its own business) is the "evil empire", then what does that make America?