Avatar - Racist toward everyone?

[Fintorah]

http://www.treehugger.com/Avatar-Na%27vi.jpg

http://news.discovery.com/human/avatar-racism-james-cameron.html
I admit, I read this article a while ago... it was headlining Yahoo!'s front page. But I only got the chance to go and see the movie earlier today. And the first thing I have to say about it is, decent piece... but with some very muddled ideas.

It seems that multiple high-profile people are calling the theme of the movie, and similar movies (which cater to the American public, predominantly white) racist... But what amazes me is the article's lack of voice from the other end of the spectrum.

From the peaceful white nationalist's perspective, the movie expresses far more of a leftist view, condemning certain whites/Americans for their actions in the past and celebrating the superior culture (which is made to look inherently African, in the soundtrack and the garb) of the natives, who in this movie are glorified and put on a pedestal for America's endorsement. It's basically brainwashing bologna, with a plot and morals so simple a child could understand them.

I'm going to stop writing for now and let this ruminate. But I'm wondering, since this movie is becoming one of the highest grossing and highest rated movies of all time, what your thoughts are?

[Óttar]

I was about to post this yesterday, but I accidentally copied other parts of the page and then thought, "I'm not going to waste my time posting such a ridiculous article."

The beings seemed rather Native American, not particularly African. Africans aren't capable of growing hair down to their asses. :P

[Beorn]

I thought it was a great film. I actually put the characters into the Na'vi being the Picts/Celts and the Humans as the Romans.

All the flak it receives should be reflected back with a nod and a wry smile which says "Yes, us Europeans were quite technologically, culturally and all round advanced beyond you and your backward people. We did such a good job that even you, the children of those who fell before the onslaught still wail and cry at the severity, and the evolutionary willingness, that your races fell"

It was best said by the fictional character Conan...


V30tyaXv6EI


The only downside is their wailing infects the minds of our younger, up and coming generations.

[Sol Invictus]

I have no desire to see the shit. Hollywood is chock full of brainwashing material.

[Agrippa]

The movie was great and I think, Westerners shouldnt defend their current cultural status any longer, because just think of what did the protagonist experience:

- He was a brave soldier, became a cripple in a fight and the army-government not even paid his full medical treatment - does that remind anybody on real life?

- His highly gifted twin brother being shot by a robber for nothing, probably a lowest class "Earth scum" of the future

- He had no family, he had no great social environment, wasnt part of a functioning community, ethnicity, tribe, anything of value, but just "a Marine", an indoctrinated mercenary fighting for a corrupted system

- The planet being exploited without further considerations by a company driven by only monetary interests, "shareholder value" for the plutocrats, sitting on their asses at home while a whole world being exploited (The only problem here is, they dont tell the viewer how important the ressource is for the home planet. Because if its replaceable, he doesnt really hurt mankind, but just the corrupted corporation)

So what did he get from his home planet? It portrays the USA as they are today and shows how sick it is - the only progress we made in the West, is of a technological nature, other than that, we just regressed in every field thinkable.

Whats left of a healthy human life? You can gather it and fill in a can for the average Western man!

Then he got to the new planet, meets a people which are in a way primitive, yet they live in a dreamworld, which could only exist if using genetic engineering in fact, but thats all secondary, primary is:

- They know honour, true friendship, loyalty, tribal-ethnic pride, defend their country and way of life, their freedom and dont get corrupted by the techno-civilisation.

- He learns that he has to fight for his place in the group, for his right to be a man in it, but once he achieved whats necessary, he being one of a community, a collective, a group which sticks together and doesnt just fight for money and wealth.

- The na'vi being portrayed as a homogenous people of superhumans, perfectly adapted to the environment, one proud race of warriors, the humans on the other hand were to a large part lower level mixed ones, with no uniform appearance, largely like the USA are today and will be even more so in the future, most also looked like having the intellectual level of a drunken bum

Now thats a really antagonism, a dualism of Good & Evil, like we never saw it in any culture, yet one thing is clear, a lot of things the West and the USA of today in particular lack, was present in the "na-vi"-people. They are like a mirror to what we lost and dont get back, at least as long as we go on the way we do in the Capitalist West.

If you see that as an "anti-white" film, well, probably passages are, but in the end, its a dream of another concept of life and world, which we need, because if we would have just a little bit of it, our states and people wouldnt be the disaster we have to live in!

The main enemy of a better civilisation and society than we have it know is the Plutocratic and Financial Oligarchy, they poison the mind of the people and no matter what you do for them, even if you offer your body and life, you are just the scum they send into the next trap, the means for their next exploitation. If you allow them to abuse you and abuse others, you dont help your people nor a better future, so you have to make up a stand, even if that mean to think about the life you had so far, and decide to fight AGAINST THEM.

Nobody defends the white race, the Euro-Americans and Europeans, by defending the current US-system, the current sociocultural norms, the current elite and establishment, the Liberalcapitalist order.

It's like it was for the British who fought against Germany in WW2, in the end, on the long run, they didnt fought for the British Empire and for sure not the British common people, but being just puppets in a greater game, which outcome will visible in the next years.

So, for me, the movie had its weaknesses, had its anti-European passages, but overall it was a healthy and great message for the young people, at least better than what comes out of Hollywood in 90 percent of the cases - ok, that doesnt mean a lot, but it also means that there are 90 percent of the movies you can tear apart for better reasons than this one.

[Sol Invictus]

Sounds like Dances With Wolves or The Last Samurai with an ecological twist.

[Agrippa]

Sounds like Dances With Wolves or The Last Samurai with an ecological twist.

Yes, the story isnt new, it just made more sense than the former, because in the former the reasons for killing large numbers of other people were much worse actually from my point of view, worse to idiotic. Whereas in this case, there was a logic, a goal to achieve and little hate involved, little other choices available, goals worth to be achieved even if having to kill some of the own...

[Fintorah]

It was, definitely, a good representation of some of what we're lacking, and some of what we've lost, and morally, the movie is relatively agreeable. It's just in the ideology where I'm on a different page than James Cameron.

With the passages about race, what really confirmed my beliefs that this film was anti-white was when the stereotypical heartless, empty, ignorant Colonel, the antagonist, accused Jake Sully, the PROTAGONIST, of betraying his race... that was where it really got to me... Just how blatantly obvious does the movie have to be about racism? It's not as simple as "doing the right thing by helping others". The Na'vi world is very unlike our own, in which (tribal) segregation is an accepted part of culture and the differences of the native races don't play any sort of definitive role. If the Native Americans had banded together, not only would they have been slaughtered because of this "white hero", but they wouldn't have cooperated in the first place. Unrealistic and idealistic.


Sounds like Dances With Wolves or The Last Samurai with an ecological twist.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Only without the same level of blatant anti-white (culture) propaganda. I wish the movie was more like The Last Samurai, TBH, in which the antagonist didn't have to have the same typical consistency and motivation. In The Last Samurai, both sides had done their wrongs, and it was simply about getting along rather than "defeating the white man".

I'm just tired of people simply not GETTING that these movies are NOT about white supremacy for the simple fact that the hero is white, but about cultural appreciation and preservation... It should be an obvious indicator that we are a relatively cosmopolitan society by the fact that these movies are not made in tribute to ourselves.

[007]

How did the Navi get to be such ferocious warriors if they're a peaceful people?

[nisse]

Sounds like Dances With Wolves or The Last Samurai with an ecological twist.
What a perfect example of why "racism" is wrong - you see a typical cast of characters and don't even bother to take a look at the story. Some times (often) you have to consider a piece in its totality to get its message...and you won't see anything if you are dealing in stereotypes.


With the passages about race, what really confirmed my beliefs that this film was anti-white was when the stereotypical heartless, empty, ignorant Colonel, the antagonist, accused Jake Sully, the PROTAGONIST, of betraying his race... that was where it really got to me..
LOL - wake up and take a look at mass cuture - "race" means class status and citizenship nowadays. In America, no one is supposed to (and few do) have a race beyond "American" :rolleyes:

[Agrippa]

With the passages about race, what really confirmed my beliefs that this film was anti-white was when the stereotypical heartless, empty, ignorant Colonel, the antagonist, accused Jake Sully, the PROTAGONIST, of betraying his race... that was where it really got to me... Just how blatantly obvious does the movie have to be about racism? It's not as simple as "doing the right thing by helping others". The Na'vi world is very unlike our own, in which (tribal) segregation is an accepted part of culture and the differences of the native races don't play any sort of definitive role. If the Native Americans had banded together, not only would they have been slaughtered because of this "white hero", but they wouldn't have cooperated in the first place. Unrealistic and idealistic.

There were actually at least two sentences which I felt were just there to satisfy the average American viewer:

"The marines fight for freedom at home, but here they are just mercenaries."

Now if looking carefully at what they did, they entered Venezuela, Nigeria etc., so rather playing "World police", but thats the connection to the average American, "oh, they are good at home, our brave marines, they just became bad abroad - oh, extraplanetary..."

And the second being the sentence of the officer which was so dislikable throughout the movie, about him "being a traitor of his race". This has a double effect of course, because the whole human species being reduced to "one race" and the racist being a bad guy who's almost always wrong and heartless...

Now those are the two messages, one has the feeling which have to be in every Hollywood movie - something positive about the USA and multiculturalism/anti-racism/Liberalism/Cultural Marxism - even if it doesnt fit into the rest of the movie, it must be thrown in at some point.

But again, that wasnt the tenor of the movie, that were some sentences and passages, the movie was more than that.

I mean the worst twist in that "American" direction I saw in the movie "Inside Man". A movie about bank robbery and a corrupted plutocrat, a financial oligarch and banker - but guess what, the hero was a black police man, the criminal with moral a strange white and the bad banker became rich only because he himself robbed poor Jews during world war 2 and cooperated with "the Nazis" which made him rich.

Of course, you make a film with a critic of the bankers in the USA and the worst banker is a gentile who exploited the poor Jews and became only rich and powerful because of this - can there be a story even further away from the truth if looking at the American Financial Oligarchy? Its like a bad joke, but they turned it around that way and this movie being even seen as "well written" or "realistic" etc. by many reviewers and viewers, which seem to be blockheads or bought...

As I said, its like with quota systems for blacks, Jews or women in totally inept roles etc. in every movie, such messages are "obligatory" and there are far worse than those in "Avatar", which had at least a good and healthy attitude OVERALL.

[Liffrea]

Lol

To many people with to much time on their hands, I could make a case for Bambi being racist if I was sad enough to make the effort.

For me it’s not a particularly good film, a reasonable point made in an immature manner, whose special effects are about all that makes it worth the effort to watch.

If you think the noise over this is fun you would laugh at the nonsense people came out with when LOTR aired….

[Jarl]

How did the Navi get to be such ferocious warriors if they're a peaceful people?

They've been probably killing and raping each other for millenia before the humans came ;)



I thought it was a great film. I actually put the characters into the Na'vi being the Picts/Celts and the Humans as the Romans.


I do not see anything Celitc in the Navi. They evidently reflect the African Nilotid culture. Like that of the Dinkas in Sudan or the Masai. The brother of the female character is an archetypical "savannah warrior" ;)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JF8UtJK3aog/Reo7UgfWXRI/AAAAAAAAAak/ioLHYTb0GDg/s400/dinka%2B3.jpg

http://s.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/terminal01/2009/12/21/11/enhanced-buzz-2105-1261414288-3.jpg

http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/_img/chars/char_7114.jpg


By the way! Typin "masai warriori" I found an ad with Gisele Bundchen:

http://www.newint.org/features/2006/11/01/red.jpg

[Murphy]

Don't be racist, Jarl.

Regards,
The Papist.

[Jarl]

Don't be racist, Jarl.

Regards,
The Papist.

LOL! Me??? Come on! :P



This whole green philosophy about living in peace with the nature, mother Earth, human-animal bonds, giving back to the nature what is due, passing tests to become a warrior etc. etc. has nothing to do with European culture. Its some vague bullshit partly invented, and partly copied from the culture of modern stone age societies.



The Navi:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5d/Avatarmotioncapture.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6c/Peter_Mensah.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/WesStudi.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/CCHPounderLazAlonsoDec09.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/CCH_Pounder_002.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Zoe_Salda%C3%B1a_2009.jpg


;) They were not running about with Celtic tartans...

[antonio]

I'm thinking on going to cinema to see Avatar to admire its 3D renderized world. But the shitty ideological background that I suspect makes me doubt: I've long ago my own opinions and feel no need of being adoctrinated at the cost of 8€ by another Hollywood ca-moroon. Anyone to give me a good advice? Thanks in advance.

[Agrippa]

As I said, the Na'vi were portrayed like biological superhumans, yet their body form even made some sense, because some of you probably heard the ideas about what kind of body would be perfect in which alien environment and this planet had a lower gravitation, therefore a longer, larger body and wider jumps etc. would be possible.

But I agree with those which said the movie could have been better and relies primarily on the "look" of things, its just entertainment with an ok message. Watch some average "Romantic comedies" or the like you get more bad stuff from the perspective of whats good for European moral and survival.

[Fintorah]

...
Now those are the two messages, one has the feeling which have to be in every Hollywood movie - something positive about the USA and multiculturalism/anti-racism/Liberalism/Cultural Marxism - even if it doesnt fit into the rest of the movie, it must be thrown in at some point.

But again, that wasnt the tenor of the movie, that were some sentences and passages, the movie was more than that.

I mean the worst twist in that "American" direction I saw in the movie "Inside Man". A movie about bank robbery and a corrupted plutocrat, a financial oligarch and banker - but guess what, the hero was a black police man, the criminal with moral a strange white and the bad banker became rich only because he himself robbed poor Jews during world war 2 and cooperated with "the Nazis" which made him rich.

Of course, you make a film with a critic of the bankers in the USA and the worst banker is a gentile who exploited the poor Jews and became only rich and powerful because of this - can there be a story even further away from the truth if looking at the American Financial Oligarchy? Its like a bad joke, but they turned it around that way and this movie being even seen as "well written" or "realistic" etc. by many reviewers and viewers, which seem to be blockheads or bought...

As I said, its like with quota systems for blacks, Jews or women in totally inept roles etc. in every movie, such messages are "obligatory" and there are far worse than those in "Avatar", which had at least a good and healthy attitude OVERALL.

Almost any movie with Denzel Washington in it is signing themselves up for "black empowerment" and blatantly liberal views. Not that that's always a big issue, but like you said, it completely switched the roles, victimizing the Jews where it was the white were victimized and with a complete disregard for history and culture. One of the reasons I stopped being a big fan of Clive. I wasn't a fan of Jodie long before her recent roles.

By the way, you are one of the best forum members I've ever come across. I've been reading your posts for ages before I signed up for any of these forums. You should be an inspiration for everyone :).


I'm thinking on going to cinema to see Avatar to admire its 3D renderized world. But the shitty ideological background that I suspect makes me doubt: I've long ago my own opinions and feel no need of being adoctrinated at the cost of 8€ by another Hollywood ca-moroon. Anyone to give me a good advice? Thanks in advance.

It's not worth watching just for the 2D CG. I've seen more than enough of that before. I could hardly even make it through Beowulf, and although that's a respectable film, the characters didn't have any presence for me.

However, the 3D IMAX showing is definitely worth a look; see if you get it in your area. Avatar had some of the best 3D effects I've ever laid eyes on. The only things immersive about this movie for me were how detailed the textures and precise the anti-aliasing are. I can't even imagine how long it took to render into such a rich format with all the stereoscopic data on top of that. You could probably get a similar experience with a 120hz monitor and Nvidia's 3D Vision though. I'm saving up for this type of setup. Might end up costing around $500+ though.


As for the appearance of the Avatars, I couldn't agree more that they looked African or African "warrior-like"... It was my first impression of the movie and lasting impression, and I find it difficult to mix with any other culture; the beads, the braided hair, the dolilocephalic skulls with strong orbitals, and the way the Avatars moved in general reminded me of romanticized pictures of Africa.

[Tabiti]

Oh, common, this is just an action with strange blue guys, made to entertain the masses...
"Anti-white"? It should be "Anti-terrestrial" :D

[Brännvin]

Superficial B-movie tropes pretending philosophical significance.

Blame my girlfriend for having lost nearly three hours of my life with this garbage...

[Majar]

This whole green philosophy about living in peace with the nature, mother Earth, human-animal bonds, giving back to the nature what is due, passing tests to become a warrior etc. etc. has nothing to do with European culture. Its some vague bullshit partly invented, and partly copied from the culture of modern stone age societies.

I'm convinced it must be something within us, rather than the result of brainwashing. The Establishment does not want wild, tribal people but domesticated and caged consumers.

It is lamentable that these values you've listed aren't considered European any longer, you could say we've 'advanced' only at a great price. Western (and Far Eastern) societies are overdeveloped, and that is why the tribal imagery and the Spirit of the Wild portrayed in this film is so enchanting to many.

European/Euro-descent nationalist/traditionalist/etc ideologies have mostly sought to exploit negative feelings (toward outsiders or policy) without much success. There's also a tendency to be quick to dismiss concepts and cultural phenomenon as liberal or nonsense, without looking at how these ideas are effecting people around them, a sort of walling oneself off from the world. I have no doubt that healthy instincts toward nature, getting back to basics and back to roots, and this new-found interest in sustainability/localism can be explored and directed in a positive way.

[Jarl]

It is lamentable that these values you've listed aren't considered European any longer, you could say we've 'advanced' only at a great price. Western (and Far Eastern) societies are overdeveloped, and that is why the tribal imagery and the Spirit of the Wild portrayed in this film is so enchanting to many.

But what values? I think every aspect of this world should be taken for what it is, a means, and thus, considered in the broader context of all humanity. Shamanism and some hokus-pokus "green magic" that replaces religion with its blind faith in ecological dogmas is dangerous for both the world and humanity.

[007]

As I said, its like with quota systems for blacks, Jews or women in totally inept roles etc. in every movie, such messages are "obligatory" and there are far worse than those in "Avatar", which had at least a good and healthy attitude OVERALL.

I don't call a message that people should fight with the enemy against one's own people healthy.

[Agrippa]

I don't call a message that people should fight with the enemy against one's own people healthy.

The system which ruins you must be ruined and its not good nor worth to be defended just because the own people support it. The goal must always be to free the own people from a corrupted system of course, but to achieve this, you have to fight some of the own at times, sad but true.

If my people defend Liberalcapitalism or Bolshevism and another power with values I support comes into my area, I will never defend Liberalcapitalism or Bolshevism, regardless of whether my own people or anybody else holds it up.

[007]

The system which ruins you must be ruined and its not good nor worth to be defended just because the own people support it. The goal must always be to free the own people from a corrupted system of course, but to achieve this, you have to fight some of the own at times, sad but true.

If my people defend Liberalcapitalism or Bolshevism and another power with values I support comes into my area, I will never defend Liberalcapitalism or Bolshevism, regardless of whether my own people or anybody else holds it up.

Then you would be a traitor, rightly reviled by both sides. If one doesn't like the actions of one's government or direction one's nation is taking, one must work within against those things. When outside armed forces threaten the lives of one's fellows, one had better get with the program. Would you prefer jihadists were running Germany these days?

[nisse]

But what values? I think every aspect of this world should be taken for what it is, a means, and thus, considered in the broader context of all humanity.
The world is only a means to those who beleive there's something more. I don't believe in heaven (and I'm far from alone in this), so to me the world is the only thing that exists. As such, environmentalism makes perfect sense and living in harmony with nature and respecting it are worthy values.

Living in nature and passing test to become a hunter, etc. would build self-reliant people with healthy self-esteem that don't take things for granted. It would facilitate the creation of a meritocracy and encourage respect for elders who possess greater experties.

I suspect you just dislike this movie because it's heathen :D

[Jarl]

...living in harmony with nature...

Living in nature and passing test to become a hunter, etc. would build self-reliant people with healthy self-esteem

Next time, I want to see you naked running about in a forest! :D

[nisse]

Next time, I want to see you naked running about in a forest! :D

I wish! I've been spoiled by civilization! :(

I need my hiking gear and bug spray :cry

[Phil75231]

I don't see the movie as being anti-White, anti-Western as being anti-colonialism and anti-uncontrolled corporatism. It's, at its heart, a film about what the the strong will do to the weak IF the strong aren't held in check. It also shows how easily it is to degrade the "different" if you advertize/emphasize that difference in just the "right" way.

It also suggests that, at least in some cases, racism is merely one part of a shell game by the powerful: namely leaders of the powerful painting the weaker "other" in negative colors (no pun intended) so that those they rule will be less likely to find morally objectionable any destruction of the weak. Ultimate purpose: to merely make money or more firmly establish their position. In other words racism is fanned by the elites, their followers accept it as truth, thereby making it harder for the followers to object, thereby making it easier for the elites to steal from "the little ones".

[Agrippa]

Then you would be a traitor, rightly reviled by both sides. If one doesn't like the actions of one's government or direction one's nation is taking, one must work within against those things. When outside armed forces threaten the lives of one's fellows, one had better get with the program. Would you prefer jihadists were running Germany these days?

Islamism is no real option to me.

Otherwise you know very well that there were and are many cases, in which you can't overcome a system from within and a wrong system, of which you know its not good for your people as well as mankind, should never be justified or defended by some sort of "rah-rah patriotism", jingoism, which is one of the lowest form of group orientation.

To defend a disease which weakens your own people, but your own people dont recognise as such, because they are manipulated or simply too stupid, is the worst thing you can do.

"Right or wrong, my country" led nowhere. Always think first, then act, for the good of the people, not a country or system.

If we dont overcome Liberalcapitalism, you shouldnt care about Jihadists, because this or that way, your people will be gone already in some decades, at least as a majority population of autochthonous people in their own country.

And this exactly because they fought a war in the "right or wrong, my country" attitude for a now crumbled Empire they thought, but the Plutocratic Oligarchy in reality.

If we wouldnt have Liberalcapitalism and Cultural Marxism, we wouldnt have a problem with "Jihadists"...

A system which leads into the catastrophy must be stopped before its too late, whether your people or others spread it is secondary, if its about the greater whole and good.

[Fintorah]

Islamism is no real option to me.

Otherwise you know very well that there were and are many cases, in which you can't overcome a system from within and a wrong system, of which you know its not good for your people as well as mankind, should never be justified or defended by some sort of "rah-rah patriotism", jingoism, which is one of the lowest form of group orientation.

To defend a disease which weakens your own people, but your own people dont recognise as such, because they are manipulated or simply too stupid, is the worst thing you can do.

"Right or wrong, my country" led nowhere. Always think first, then act, for the good of the people, not a country or system.

If we dont overcome Liberalcapitalism, you shouldnt care about Jihadists, because this or that way, your people will be gone already in some decades, at least as a majority population of autochthonous people in their own country.

And this exactly because they fought a war in the "right or wrong, my country" attitude for a now crumbled Empire they thought, but the Plutocratic Oligarchy in reality.

If we wouldnt have Liberalcapitalism and Cultural Marxism, we wouldnt have a problem with "Jihadists"...

A system which leads into the catastrophy must be stopped before its too late, whether your people or others spread it is secondary, if its about the greater whole and good.

I think we created a lot of the institutions (Jihadism, terrorism) that threaten ourselves, as others from different orientations, such as Black nationalism, would profess to no end in a misled attempt to victimize themselves. It's the fact that we're blind to the invisible oligarchy we call "government" that keeps the problems of exploitative multi-culturalism rolling downhill.

Also, I'd like to say that you make a perfect conclusion to an already too tangented thread. I had no intention of reading through all these posts that far surpass my local knowledge on the subject of this mere cursory movie. I wish you could have started the thread yourself, Agrippa. It's the problem that already prevents the message of European culture from sticking that possesses certain members on all of these boards, including me, in that we simply don't have a cemented enough strategy of swaying the majority to seeing what's destroying them.

Discussing this movie only scrapes the surface and proves my point.
We should be ratifying eachother rather than debating where we draw the center.

[007]

Islamism is no real option to me.


Really? You have a great deal of praise for them at times.


Otherwise you know very well that there were and are many cases, in which you can't overcome a system from within and a wrong system, of which you know its not good for your people as well as mankind, should never be justified or defended by some sort of "rah-rah patriotism", jingoism, which is one of the lowest form of group orientation.

I'm well aware that you are no patriot, Agrippa. You think like the elites you claim to oppose. All that matters is getting your own system in place and you will even co-operate with armed enemies to achieve your goals. The new boss, same as the old boss.


To defend a disease which weakens your own people, but your own people dont recognise as such, because they are manipulated or simply too stupid, is the worst thing you can do.

No, the worst thing you can do is aid and abet a foreign enemy to conquer your own people. Examples from history of benign conquerors who improve the lot of the people under their care are very hard to find. It worked somewhat in the colonial era because of the great disparity between the Europeans and the backwards people they encountered.


"Right or wrong, my country" led nowhere. Always think first, then act, for the good of the people, not a country or system.

Well, now you are contradicting yourself. I am thinking of the good of the people and you are thinking of the good of the system you wish to impose.


If we dont overcome Liberalcapitalism, you shouldnt care about Jihadists, because this or that way, your people will be gone already in some decades, at least as a majority population of autochthonous people in their own country.

If I didn't care about jihadists and other undesirable foreign elements why would I oppose current immigration policy?


And this exactly because they fought a war in the "right or wrong, my country" attitude for a now crumbled Empire they thought, but the Plutocratic Oligarchy in reality.

I presume that you are talking about the British Empire and WW2. The British government was already in the process of winding down the empire before the war. The empire had nothing to do with the war in Europe. It was Britain itself that was under attack.


If we wouldnt have Liberalcapitalism and Cultural Marxism, we wouldnt have a problem with "Jihadists"...
A system which leads into the catastrophy must be stopped before its too late, whether your people or others spread it is secondary, if its about the greater whole and good.

Of course the jihadists are not to blame for current western immigration policies, but my point was that allowing jihadists to overthrow the current system would not be a viable solution. The solution must come from the indigenous people. Foreign saviours do not exist outside Hollywood.

[Matritensis]

I haven't seen it,but I think letting smurfs take steroids is WRONG.

[Aemma]

But what values? I think every aspect of this world should be taken for what it is, a means, and thus, considered in the broader context of all humanity. Shamanism and some hokus-pokus "green magic" that replaces religion with its blind faith in ecological dogmas is dangerous for both the world and humanity.

But honestly Jarl, with the heathen population that is on this board here already, I can hardly believe what I'm reading. "Shamanism and some hokus-pokus 'green magic' that replaces religion"? Ahem, THIS TOO FALLS UNDER THE TERM 'RELIGION'!!! The original form of it I might add! :mad:

And what "blind faith in ecological dogmas"? We're not all part of PETA nor Green Peace you know! Good grief!


The world is only a means to those who beleive there's something more. I don't believe in heaven (and I'm far from alone in this), so to me the world is the only thing that exists. As such, environmentalism makes perfect sense and living in harmony with nature and respecting it are worthy values.

Living in nature and passing test to become a hunter, etc. would build self-reliant people with healthy self-esteem that don't take things for granted. It would facilitate the creation of a meritocracy and encourage respect for elders who possess greater experties.

I suspect you just dislike this movie because it's heathen :D

Bingo! :D (Come on, admit it Jarl! ;))


I think we created a lot of the institutions (Jihadism, terrorism) that threaten ourselves, as others from different orientations, such as Black nationalism, would profess to no end in a misled attempt to victimize themselves. It's the fact that we're blind to the invisible oligarchy we call "government" that keeps the problems of exploitative multi-culturalism rolling downhill.

Also, I'd like to say that you make a perfect conclusion to an already too tangented thread. I had no intention of reading through all these posts that far surpass my local knowledge on the subject of this mere cursory movie. I wish you could have started the thread yourself, Agrippa. It's the problem that already prevents the message of European culture from sticking that possesses certain members on all of these boards, including me, in that we simply don't have a cemented enough strategy of swaying the majority to seeing what's destroying them.

Discussing this movie only scrapes the surface and proves my point.
We should be ratifying eachother rather than debating where we draw the center.

This is a process which merits its own time, but more importantly pace of evolution. You can't make people change their minds at gunpoint. Then you're no better than those whom you've accused of being blind to what has been destroying them. Things take time and indeed should take time.

But a greater question remains: who determines that your own view here is the right one? Let the people decide what is right for them.