Guess where from the Balkans these two are by just genetics

[Stefan_Dusan]

Both from different ethnicities but neighboring

Person A)

1 85.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 14.7% Cypriots (Behar) @ 0.37
2 69.1% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) + 30.9% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 0.47
3 63.1% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) + 36.9% German (Dodecad) @ 0.47
4 67.7% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) + 32.3% Irish (Dodecad) @ 0.48
5 65.1% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) + 34.9% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 0.48

Person B)

1 80.7% Greek (Dodecad) + 19.3% Polish (Dodecad) @ 0.29
2 73.8% Greek (Dodecad) + 26.2% Hungarians (Behar) @ 0.31
3 84.3% Greek (Dodecad) + 15.7% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 0.33
4 81.7% Greek (Dodecad) + 18.3% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 0.34
5 78.5% Greek (Dodecad) + 21.5% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 0.37
6 81.6% Greek (Dodecad) + 18.4% Belorussian (Behar) @ 0.37

Dodecad K7b Oracle

[Sikeliot]

A) Croat
B) Bulgarian

[MINARDOWICZ]

1- Serbia
2- Macedonia

EDIT: Second thought... the 2nd could be Albanian. I'm not sure.

[iNird]

It's been awhile since I have looked at these calculators but:

A- mako
B- albo

[Trun]

Afaik there are no Albos and Macos on Dodecad. Probably atypically northern Serb and atypically southern Bulgarian.

[Faklon]

Romanian
Bulgarian

[Black Wolf]

Hard to say but there goes.

Serb
Albanian

[Insuperable]

1. Bosniak
2. Kosovar

[cally]

It must be something unusual so:

1. Greek
2. Albanian

?

[Insuperable]

Stefan, do you think of Kosovo as a part of Serbia or as a separate country? I wrote my answer based on you thinking about Kosovo being part of Serbia.

[Thrax]

A - Bulgarian
B - Greek

[Stefan_Dusan]

Stefan, do you think of Kosovo as a part of Serbia or as a separate country? I wrote my answer based on you thinking about Kosovo being part of Serbia.

I'm talking ethnicity so the status of Kosovo should be of no importance, just state if he is Serb or Albanian (regardless if he is from Kosovo or not).

But the answer is

A)Serbian (Me)
B)Albanian (Shkodra).

Couple things to take away from the results,

The Serb (Me) is dramatically much more northwest shifted than the average Bulgarian. When Bulgarian is used as my reference population, only 60-70% of my plotting can be explained by the average Bulgarian. The other 30-40% is explained by some northwestern European ethnicity. In effect, it's like 3 of my grandparents are Bulgarian and one is Scottish. Make of these of what you will.

The Albanian is clearly northern shifted from Greeks, but it's not clear if he is eastern shifted or western shifted since sometimes Polish appears and sometimes Lithuanian and sometimes Swedish and then Belorussian, all with the above accuracy for explaining his results. The Albanian plots as a person would if they had 3 Greek grandparents and 1 Polish. Also interesting results, make of this what you will.

Lastly, the calculator had a harder time with my genetics than the Albanian. The most accurate composite for me was 0.37 (0.0 would be 100% match) whereas the Albanian's most accurate was 0.29.

[HellLander87]

can you post the raw results for the albanian?eurogenes k13 it's possible?

[Stefan_Dusan]

can you post the raw results for the albanian?eurogenes k13 it's possible?

GED Match for some reason won't let me log in right now. I'll try tomorrow. I'll just add that I have him on 23andMe and he's a fairly typical Albanian (if not even more western plotting). He's not one of the 2 that are so northern plotting they joined south slavs.

I'm partially curious about my results however. This is not first calculator that's given me this, for example on different ones I have received something like 75% Romanian + 25% Norwegian. 75% Montenegrin + 25% Norwegian. 66% Macedonian + 34% German.

It seems that whenever a Balkan population is my reference, I'm about a quarter more "northwest" than they are. I mean this would all make sense if I was 75% Bulgarian + 25% Polish (indicating I'm more slavic than the average Bulgarian).

But why Northwest European!?!?!?!?!?!?! Where are this western genes coming from because I'm definitely not mixed. Does anyone have ideas here? Even on 23andMe, I'm more western plotting, what is going on here?

[Stefan_Dusan]

Btw, for those who don't know, this is where Orkney is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orkney).

According to GED, a person that is 31% pure average Orkney, and 69% Bulgarian would plot as me. This is like having one grandparent from Orkney, another grandparent mixed between Ornkey and Bulgarian, and the other 2 being pure Bulgarians.

Looking where Orkney is, I imagine them to be some of the most northwest plotting Europeans. Without a trace of anything in them but ancient Celt blood lines mixed with Norsemen.

To me it's honestly mini-Mind Fuck.

[HellLander87]

GED Match for some reason won't let me log in right now. I'll try tomorrow. I'll just add that I have him on 23andMe and he's a fairly typical Albanian (if not even more western plotting). He's not one of the 2 that are so northern plotting they joined south slavs.

I'm partially curious about my results however. This is not first calculator that's given me this, for example on different ones I have received something like 75% Romanian + 25% Norwegian. 75% Montenegrin + 25% Norwegian. 66% Macedonian + 34% German.

It seems that whenever a Balkan population is my reference, I'm about a quarter more "northwest" than they are. I mean this would all make sense if I was 75% Bulgarian + 25% Polish (indicating I'm more slavic than the average Bulgarian).

But why Northwest European!?!?!?!?!?!?! Where are this western genes coming from because I'm definitely not mixed. Does anyone have ideas here? Even on 23andMe, I'm more western plotting, what is going on here?
This calculator doesn't separate a northwestern and northeastern component(it has atlantic_baltic) that's why you get this.Try k13 which has north atlantic and baltic separately.I believe you ll get polish instead of northwestern countries.Normally you should be more western to bulgarians due to position but in general your results are normally slavic-like with high baltic and significantly lower north atlantic from what I remember.

[Black Wolf]

Btw, for those who don't know, this is where Orkney is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orkney).

According to GED, a person that is 31% pure average Orkney, and 69% Bulgarian would plot as me. This is like having one grandparent from Orkney, another grandparent mixed between Ornkey and Bulgarian, and the other 2 being pure Bulgarians.

Looking where Orkney is, I imagine them to be some of the most northwest plotting Europeans. Without a trace of anything in them but ancient Celt blood lines mixed with Norsemen.



To me it's honestly mini-Mind Fuck.

Yes Orcadians are a blend of Norse and Celtic blood mainly.

[safinator]

I'd have guessed Croat and Albanian.

Anyway guys to differentiate between NW and NE i suggest MDLP K12 which has a Celto-Germanic and East European category.

Although it's not a great calculator.

[Stefan_Dusan]

This calculator doesn't separate a northwestern and northeastern component(it has atlantic_baltic) that's why you get this.Try k13 which has north atlantic and baltic separately.I believe you ll get polish instead of northwestern countries.Normally you should be more western to bulgarians due to position but in general your results are normally slavic-like with high baltic and significantly lower north atlantic from what I remember.

Yes, that's a good point.

On K13, my Baltic and Atlantic are roughly equal (30% Baltic, 25% Atlantic). I'm guessing that Eastern Europeans get some Atlantic and Northwestern Europeans get some Baltic so it's hard to say what those results indicate. Though on Oracle, this test does give me some Eastern European people, but not Poles (Ukrainians however).

On MLDP K12 Safinator suggested, it's about 15% Celto-Germanic and 30% Eastern European with 5% Baltic. Here there is clear bias for me for Eastern European slavic populations, the population sharing is very similar as K13.

On Dodecad V3, with their Western European, Eastern European category a very weird thing happens, I become about 30% Western European, and 20% Eastern European. All of a sudden I start to get northwester populations again. But most interesting is my 23andMe European plot because this makes this very visual and unambiguous:

http://s29.postimg.org/gn9lf395j/Screen_Shot_2014_05_01_at_4_55_59_PM.png

I'm the green blob with the white lines radiating out. Yellow Circle are Croatians (majority of them), orange are Serbians (majority of them), red are Macedonians (majority of them), blue are Bulgarians (majority of them), purple are Albanians (majority of them). The black square with the green boxes are Northwestern Europeans (Irish, Norwegians), the black square with the purple boxes are the eastern European (Ukrainians, Poles, Russians).

From here you can see I'm dramatically more western than the Serbs and Bulgarians (majority of them at least, there are some Serbs, especially Montenegrins, near me but they are still east). I'm also still west of Croatians, Macedonians and Albanians, but not as dramatic.

What's even more interesting is the distance for me to northwestern Europeans is shorter than that of eastern europeans and that's partially due to how west I am. In fact on the Eastern Europe box, I'm on the edge, meaning if I plotted just one more unit west, 23andMe wouldn't show me plotting with other eastern Europeans.

I do remember the Serbian geneticist remarking on my results I'm the most "Orcadian" shifted Balkan person he has in his sample. So I'm curious why it works this way.

[Insuperable]

No way Croat cluster is that small and that much up north. I'd put it slightly towards the south and maybe towards the east slightly and expand it to the west a little bit.

[LightHouse89]

GED Match for some reason won't let me log in right now. I'll try tomorrow. I'll just add that I have him on 23andMe and he's a fairly typical Albanian (if not even more western plotting). He's not one of the 2 that are so northern plotting they joined south slavs.

I'm partially curious about my results however. This is not first calculator that's given me this, for example on different ones I have received something like 75% Romanian + 25% Norwegian. 75% Montenegrin + 25% Norwegian. 66% Macedonian + 34% German.

It seems that whenever a Balkan population is my reference, I'm about a quarter more "northwest" than they are. I mean this would all make sense if I was 75% Bulgarian + 25% Polish (indicating I'm more slavic than the average Bulgarian).

But why Northwest European!?!?!?!?!?!?! Where are this western genes coming from because I'm definitely not mixed. Does anyone have ideas here? Even on 23andMe, I'm more western plotting, what is going on here?

probably from the Goths?

[Black Wolf]

Have other Serbs from your area or tribe tested?

[HellLander87]

GED Match for some reason won't let me log in right now. I'll try tomorrow. I'll just add that I have him on 23andMe and he's a fairly typical Albanian (if not even more western plotting). He's not one of the 2 that are so northern plotting they joined south slavs.

I'm partially curious about my results however. This is not first calculator that's given me this, for example on different ones I have received something like 75% Romanian + 25% Norwegian. 75% Montenegrin + 25% Norwegian. 66% Macedonian + 34% German.

It seems that whenever a Balkan population is my reference, I'm about a quarter more "northwest" than they are. I mean this would all make sense if I was 75% Bulgarian + 25% Polish (indicating I'm more slavic than the average Bulgarian).

But why Northwest European!?!?!?!?!?!?! Where are this western genes coming from because I'm definitely not mixed. Does anyone have ideas here? Even on 23andMe, I'm more western plotting, what is going on here?
Balkans were one inhabited by Kelts and Germanics.Maybe from there or other pre slavic peoples.About North atlantic my uncle scores about 25% Geni who is albanian also scores about 23%.So your value is not abnormal for a western Balkanian...

[Stefan_Dusan]

Have other Serbs from your area or tribe tested?

The closest Serb to me will not reveal his ancestry (he never responded anyway to my message, not untypical for 23andMe, many don't respond to). The closest matches to me are people from old Montenegro instead of Brda (which I would have expected to be other way around). There is a Montenegrin from Piva who is very close to me. Solin also posted a Croatian girl, apparently with ancestry from Montenegro (Montenegrin Croat) also almost identical to me. There is another Croat from Split very close to me. But more results needs to be done.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Balkans were one inhabited by Kelts and Germanics.Maybe from there or other pre slavic peoples.About North atlantic my uncle scores about 25% Geni who is albanian also scores about 23%.So your value is not abnormal for a western Balkanian...

I guess maybe on that calculator I'm "normal" but as you can from my 23andMe, I'm literally one of the most western plotting Balkanians. So far only 2 have been more west (out of ~80 samples) and out of those 2, one has German ancestry. The other is from Slavonia, Croatia. I'm just curious what is determine some Balkan people plotting west and others east as can be seen from the spread.

[cally]

Btw, for those who don't know, this is where Orkney is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orkney).

According to GED, a person that is 31% pure average Orkney, and 69% Bulgarian would plot as me. This is like having one grandparent from Orkney, another grandparent mixed between Ornkey and Bulgarian, and the other 2 being pure Bulgarians.

Looking where Orkney is, I imagine them to be some of the most northwest plotting Europeans. Without a trace of anything in them but ancient Celt blood lines mixed with Norsemen.

To me it's honestly mini-Mind Fuck.

Illyro-gothic-Celtic obviously :)

[Stefan_Dusan]

Illyro-gothic-Celtic obviously :)

That word is tainted to me by the Bosniak users so I keep hearing CrystalMaidan in my head xD But I do have some Bosniaks in my sample (very few though) if you look where the orange circle is and go north, that is where they plot. I'm dramatically west of them.

Something is curious going on, as there is division among Balkanians not just North<->South but also West<->East. We always focus on North<->South but ignore East<->West.

[cally]

That word is tainted to me by the Bosniak users so I keep hearing CrystalMaidan in my head xD But I do have some Bosniaks in my sample (very few though) if you look where the orange circle is and go north, that is where they plot. I'm dramatically west of them.

Something is curious going on, as there is division among Balkanians not just North<->South but also West<->East. We always focus on North<->South but ignore East<->West.

Haha "illyro-gothic Islamic race" xD yeah it's very unusual how location has little to do with where we plot. I wonder what makes us plot west and east it's very interesting to uncover.

[HellLander87]

I guess maybe on that calculator I'm "normal" but as you can from my 23andMe, I'm literally one of the most western plotting Balkanians. So far only 2 have been more west (out of ~80 samples) and out of those 2, one has German ancestry. The other is from Slavonia, Croatia. I'm just curious what is determine some Balkan people plotting west and others east as can be seen from the spread.
hm I don't know how the 23andme system works exactly.Do you get any western euro ancestry there?
Also it could be german miner ancestry that pulls you there if your score was unusual for your region because of recent ancestry.But from K13 i don't think there is something unusual about your ancestry.

[Stefan_Dusan]

hm I don't know how the 23andme system works exactly.Do you get any western euro ancestry there?
Also it could be german miner ancestry that pulls you there if your score was unusual for your region because of recent ancestry.But from K13 i don't think there is something unusual about your ancestry.

No not at all. I get very minimal (<1%). I'm predominately Balkan on AC there, but I don't put much stock in 23andMe's AC composition to tell you anything other than recent admixture. But "Saxon miners" would be relatively recent so they shouldn't explain anything.

The plots work very simply, you are pulled towards the populations you are most similar to. The further one is pulled west, the more similar he is to western europeans (genetically) than someone east. In fact, I'm on the edge as I stated. If I went any more west, 23andMe won't show me plotting with "Eastern Europeans" (but this is an artificial cut off set by 23andMe itself).