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Beorn
01-18-2010, 02:23 PM
Israel (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/israel) is to fund a rare genetic study to determine whether there is a link between the lost tribes of Israel and the Pashtuns of Afghanistan (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/afghanistan) and northern Pakistan (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/pakistan).Historical and anecdotal evidence strongly suggests a connection, but definitive scientific proof has never been found. Some leading Israeli anthropologists believe that, of all the many groups in the world who claim a connection to the 10 lost tribes, the Pashtuns, or Pathans, have the most compelling case. Paradoxically it is from the Pashtuns that the ultra-conservative Islamic Taliban movement in Afghanistan emerged. Pashtuns themselves sometimes talk of their Israelite connection, but show few signs of sympathy with, or any wish to migrate to, the modern Israeli state.

Now an Indian researcher has collected blood samples from members of the Afridi tribe of Pashtuns who today live in Malihabad, near Lucknow, in northern India. Shahnaz Ali, from the National Institute of Immuno*haematology in Mumbai, is to spend several months studying her findings at Technion, the Israel Institute of Technology, in Haifa. A previous genetic study in the same area did not provide proof one way or the other.

The Assyrians conquered the kingdom of Israel some 2,730 years ago, scattering 10 of the 12 tribes into exile, supposedly beyond the mythical Sambation river. The two remaining tribes, Benjamin and Judah, became the modern-day Jewish people, according to Jewish history, and the search for the lost tribes has continued ever since. Some have claimed to have found traces of them in modern day China, Burma, Nigeria, Central Asia, Ethiopia and even in the West.
But it is believed that the tribes were dispersed in an area around modern-day northern Iraq and Afghanistan, which makes the Pashtun connection the strongest.

"Of all the groups, there is more convincing evidence about the Pathans than anybody else, but the Pathans are the ones who would reject Israel most ferociously. That is the sweet irony," said Shalva Weil, an anthropologist and senior researcher at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
The Pashtuns have a proud oral history that talks of descending from the Israelites.
Their tribal groupings have similar names, including Yusufzai, which means sons of Joseph; and Afridi, thought by some to come from Ephraim. Some customs and practices are said to be similar to Jewish traditions: lighting candles on the sabbath, refraining from eating certain foods, using a canopy during a wedding ceremony and some similarities in garments.
Weil cautioned, however, that this is not proof of any genetic connection. DNA might be able to determine which area of the world the Pashtuns originated from, but it is not at all certain that it could identify a specific genetic link to the Jewish people.

So far Shahnaz Ali has been cautious. "The theory has been a matter of curiosity since long ago, and now I hope a scientific analysis will provide us with some answers about the Israelite origin of Afridi Pathans. We still don't know what the truth is, but efforts will certainly give us a direction," she told the Times of India last year.
Some are more certain, among them Navras Aafreedi, an academic at Luck*now University, himself a Pashtun from the Afridi tribe. His family trace their roots back to Pathans from the Khyber Agency of what is today north-west Pakistan, but he believes they stretch back further to the tribe of Ephraim.

"Pathans, or Pashtuns, are the only people in the world whose probable descent from the lost tribes of Israel finds mention in a number of texts from the 10th century to the present day, written by Jewish, Christian and Muslim scholars alike, both religious as well as secularists," Aafreedi said.
The implications of any find are uncertain. Other groups that claim *Israelite descent, including those known as the Bnei Menashe in India and some in Ethiopia, have migrated to Israel. That is unlikely with the Pashtuns.

But Weil said the work was absorbing, well beyond questions of immigration. "I find a myth that has been so persistent for so long, for 2,000 years, really fascinating," she said.

Source (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/17/israel-lost-tribes-pashtun)

Osweo
01-18-2010, 02:31 PM
Bollocks.

Loki
01-18-2010, 04:39 PM
Bollocks.

Why? It may very well be possible. :)

Wulfhere
01-18-2010, 04:52 PM
The Ten Lost Tribes were never actually lost. What remained of them survived in (northern) Israel and their descendants today are the Samaritans.

Loki
01-18-2010, 04:55 PM
The Ten Lost Tribes were never actually lost. What remained of them survived in (northern) Israel and their descendants today are the Samaritans.

Source? And, what is being spoken of here are not the ones who remained in northern Israel, but the descendants of the thousands who were taken captive to Assyria.

Wulfhere
01-18-2010, 04:57 PM
Source? And, what is being spoken of here are not the ones who remained in northern Israel, but the descendants of the thousands who were taken captive to Assyria.

Look it up anywhere - it's like asking for a source to say that the Battle of Hastings was in 1066.

Loki
01-18-2010, 05:03 PM
Look it up anywhere - it's like asking for a source to say that the Battle of Hastings was in 1066.

No, you are mistaken. Your previous post does not make sense as it compares apples and pears. Besides, there are different viewpoints regarding this historical event that took place 2,700 years ago, it is not as clearcut and precise as 1066's Battle of Hastings.

Wulfhere
01-18-2010, 05:12 PM
No, you are mistaken. Your previous post does not make sense as it compares apples and pears. Besides, there are different viewpoints regarding this historical event that took place 2,700 years ago, it is not as clearcut and precise as 1066's Battle of Hastings.

Have a look at the Wikipedia article, and if you don't like Wikipedia look at the sources it cites. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan

Loki
01-18-2010, 05:15 PM
Have a look at the Wikipedia article, and if you don't like Wikipedia look at the sources it cites. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan

You still don't get what I'm saying. They are talking of remainders of the 10 tribes who stayed in Israel, not the bulk who were taken captive and moved out of the country. The descendants of the latter is what is under dispute and speculation -- possibly the Pastuns as explained in above article. Or else they just assimilated with the Assyrians, who knows.

Wulfhere
01-18-2010, 05:23 PM
You still don't get what I'm saying. They are talking of remainders of the 10 tribes who stayed in Israel, not the bulk who were taken captive and moved out of the country. The descendants of the latter is what is under dispute and speculation -- possibly the Pastuns as explained in above article. Or else they just assimilated with the Assyrians, who knows.

There's no reason to assume the bulk of the tribes were deported - just the ruling elite. To deport an entire population would have been far beyond the means of the ancients (and is virtually so today). So, if the majority stayed behind, then that's where the Ten Tribes can be found to this day.

Loki
01-18-2010, 05:28 PM
There's no reason to assume the bulk of the tribes were deported - just the ruling elite. To deport an entire population would have been far beyond the means of the ancients (and is virtually so today). So, if the majority stayed behind, then that's where the Ten Tribes can be found to this day.

That is what has been recorded. You can look it up. Quite right the ancient sources often greatly exaggerate, but it still leaves a great deal who were deported. Your opinion is that the majority stayed behind, and that may even be the case in reality, but fact of the matter is that it is pretty much speculation, not as set in stone as 1066.

Wulfhere
01-18-2010, 05:32 PM
That is what has been recorded. You can look it up. Quite right the ancient sources often greatly exaggerate, but it still leaves a great deal who were deported. Your opinion is that the majority stayed behind, and that may even be the case in reality, but fact of the matter is that it is pretty much speculation, not as set in stone as 1066.

Biblical figures should always be taken with a lorry-load of salt. The Judeans had political reasons for denying the Samaritans their common Israelite heritage.

Loki
01-18-2010, 05:34 PM
Biblical figures should always be taken with a lorry-load of salt. The Judeans had political reasons for denying the Samaritans their common Israelite heritage.

The Assyrian captivity has been recorded in non-Israelite sources as well.

Wulfhere
01-18-2010, 05:36 PM
The Assyrian captivity has been recorded in non-Israelite sources as well.

But not the numbers involved.

Loki
01-18-2010, 05:43 PM
But not the numbers involved.

Hence me saying there's a lot of speculation and little hard facts.

Wulfhere
01-18-2010, 06:00 PM
Hence me saying there's a lot of speculation and little hard facts.

True indeed. The hard facts are that it would have been impossible for the Assyrians to deport the entire population of a country.

Loki
01-18-2010, 06:04 PM
True indeed. The hard facts are that it would have been impossible for the Assyrians to deport the entire population of a country.

Well nobody claimed the entire population was deported. Not me anyway.