The Poles are coming.

[Beorn]

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[Wulfhere]

Slavs have a slave mentality (hence their name) not seen in north-western Europe. Though if it was a straight choice between Poles and, say, Pakistanis it is obvious which one would prefer, it is still an invidious situation to be in.

[Electronic God-Man]

Slavs have a slave mentality (hence their name) not seen in north-western Europe.

We get the term "slave" from the word Slav, not the other way around.

[Wulfhere]

We get the term "slave" from the word Slav, not the other way around.

Indeed. Same difference.

[Osweo]

Indeed. Same difference.

Do you even REALISE how obnoxiously STUPID you're being?

Do you know ANYTHING of Slavonic culture or history?

I, your fellow Englishmen, lived among Russians for years and can tell you, SHOCK HORROR, that they are perfectly normal human beings like we are. They are Europeans, many are stupid, some are brilliant, the vast majority are decent everyday average folk, just like our own countrymen.

WHERE the hell do you get your idiotic ideas from at all?

The Tutankhamun/Hitler Channel?!?

[NordicPower]

Try as I might, I have never understood slavs even one little bit. Their thinking and ways are so completely alien to me, a synthesis is impossible. I'm not being racist (for lack of a better word) since I've had very close contact with them, however I'm just quite honest. A mystery...

[Crux]

I sort of find it offensive that you are using a term as broad as Slav in this case. Our people have very little to do with them culturaly and otherwise yet our maternal language is still a Slavonic one. Those people are Poles and even if you used the word Poles it would be too broad.

[Wulfhere]

Do you even REALISE how obnoxiously STUPID you're being?

Do you know ANYTHING of Slavonic culture or history?

I, your fellow Englishmen, lived among Russians for years and can tell you, SHOCK HORROR, that they are perfectly normal human beings like we are. They are Europeans, many are stupid, some are brilliant, the vast majority are decent everyday average folk, just like our own countrymen.

WHERE the hell do you get your idiotic ideas from at all?

The Tutankhamun/Hitler Channel?!?

Odd then that they've lived under despotic, megalomaniacal regimes for pretty much their entire history. We would never have put up with that.

[Wulfhere]

Try as I might, I have never understood slavs even one little bit. Their thinking and ways are so completely alien to me, a synthesis is impossible. I'm not being racist (for lack of a better word) since I've had very close contact with them, however I'm just quite honest. A mystery...

I agree. I've had quite a few dealings with them and they certainly seem to think differently.

[Wulfhere]

I sort of find it offensive that you are using a term as broad as Slav in this case. Our people have very little to do with them culturaly and otherwise yet our maternal language is still a Slavonic one. Those people are Poles and even if you used the word Poles it would be too broad.

Whilst there are no doubt nuanced differences between the various Slav groups, they are all far more similar to each other than to non-Slavs.

[Electronic God-Man]

MONEY MONEY MONEY. We are ALL being ruled by money.

There will be no end to this unless we can figure out how to pay our own native workers a decent wage. Or how to get them to want these jobs.

It all boils down to that. UK will take the Poles and other Eastern Euros, while Eastern Europe employs Koreans and Chinese. There is an obvious chain here from most productive countries to least.

The greatest efforts should be towards finding a solution to that problem, rather than fighting symptoms.

[Freomæg]

The solution is Protectionism and would be quite normal if our government weren't a bunch of corrupt Globalists.

[Puddle of Mudd]

Try as I might, I have never understood slavs even one little bit. Their thinking and ways are so completely alien to me, a synthesis is impossible. I'm not being racist (for lack of a better word) since I've had very close contact with them, however I'm just quite honest. A mystery...

To me it seems like you're holding back what you really want to say...

[Monolith]

Try as I might, I have never understood slavs even one little bit. Their thinking and ways are so completely alien to me, a synthesis is impossible. I'm not being racist (for lack of a better word) since I've had very close contact with them, however I'm just quite honest. A mystery...
Strange. I never considered Germans to be alien, aside from your commendable work ethics and your language.

Our people have very little to do with them culturaly and otherwise yet our maternal language is still a Slavonic one.
You're joking, right? Just look at your folklore!

[Majar]

Of course they would never do a documentary like this about people from Pakistan or India. A lot of the men early on in the first video are Roma gypsies and not Poles or Slavs. :thumb down2

[Jarl]

It all boils down to that. UK will take the Poles and other Eastern Euros, while Eastern Europe employs Koreans and Chinese. There is an obvious chain here from most productive countries to least.

The latter is unlikely. First of all - not now, in the EU. Secondly, Eastern Europe is too impoverished to employ mass immigrants. The relative living expenses are higher then in the West. Noone would be interested to come to Poland, Slovakia or Latvia if they can go anywhere else in the EU.


Strange. I never considered Germans to be alien, aside from your commendable work ethics and your language.

You're joking, right? Just look at your folklore!

LOL! Why are you even bothering to reply?


Of course they would never do a documentary like this about people from Pakistan or India. A lot of the men early on in the first video are Roma gypsies and not Poles or Slavs. :thumb down2

Didn't watch the "documentary" but frankly I don't think anyone cares about the "injustice". The policy has been in force, the people are here in England and they are doing their jobs. That's what its all about. Bringing down prices via cheap workforce for British economy. Occasional moaning will make appearance in media, but that's all. It will not change as long as EU lasts.

[Cail]

Slavs have a slave mentality (hence their name) not seen in north-western Europe.

I'd never guess by other Mercians i've met, but judging by you, they all must've had an imbecile mentality.

[Jäger]

The greatest efforts should be towards finding a solution to that problem, rather than fighting symptoms.
Who is even fighting the symptoms?

Anyways, maybe soon enough, we might get presented a proposal for a new world currency (if the dollar goes kaputt), this could be an opportunity to destroy the Globalist paper trade from the root.
This would be, in any case, very violent though.

[Wulfhere]

I'd never guess by other Mercians i've met, but judging by you, they all must've had an imbecile mentality.

The English word slave is derived from Slav, because they were often employed as slaves in ancient times. That Slavs have a slave mentality is also indicated by the sort of governments they've always allowed themselves to be ruled by.

[Jarl]

That Slavs have a slave mentality is also indicated by the sort of governments they've always allowed themselves to be ruled by.

I think you need a historian/doctor ;)

[Cail]

The English word slave is derived from Slav, because they were often employed as slaves in ancient times. That Slavs have a slave mentality is also indicated by the sort of governments they've always allowed themselves to be ruled by.

That's folk etymology (pseudo-science). English word for "slave" is derived from Latin "esclavus" with the same meaning.

And what sort of government are you personally ruled by now? It is deliberately destroying your people and culture, shipping in millions of aliens, encouraging a real genocide against you and persecuting patriots. Yet it is consistently reelected and i've never heard about some riots or national uprising (BNP doesn't count, it has less support than paedophile parties). Your people are slaves.

[Wulfhere]

I think you need a historian/doctor ;)

The facts speak for themselves, I'm afraid. Eastern Europe might just as well be sub-Saharan Africa for the cultural impact it's had on the West.

[Jarl]

The facts speak for themselves, I'm afraid. Eastern Europe might just as well be sub-Saharan Africa for the cultural impact it's had on the West.

What facts?


the cultural impact it's had on the West.

What's the point with the cultural impact on the West? What are you really arguing for?



Just to clarify. These are not facts:


Whilst there are no doubt nuanced differences between the various Slav groups, they are all far more similar to each other than to non-Slavs.


Odd then that they've lived under despotic, megalomaniacal regimes for pretty much their entire history. We would never have put up with that.

...but do I really have the patience for your bullshit?


No...


I think I do not... ;)

[Jarl]

And I very very very kindly ask all the real Slavs on this forum to refrain from posting in this thread. It's nonsensical and not worth our time. Don't go down to the level of pointless ranting. We don't need to prove we're not camels to any damn man.

[Cail]

What facts?
The fact that Wulfhere is atm sitting on his ass before a PC whining on an internet board, instead of participating in an anti-tyranic rebellion or at least a partisan war against oppressors. While his people are being genocided. What a good non-slave he is.

[Jarl]

The fact that Wulfhere is atm sitting on his ass before a PC whining on an internet board, instead of participating in an anti-tyranic rebellion or at least a partisan war against oppressors. While his people are being genocided. What a good non-slave he is.

Like above... who cares??? Let acwellan and others do what they want in this provocative thread. Frankly, I just can't give a stinking rat about what they think.

There is a certain fine boundary between what is worth discussing and what is a waste of time. So far I have seen nothing here. Apart from Soten's post, no sensible argument whatsoever. While I'm willing to participate in factual or semi-historical debates (like with some of the Germans here ;) ), I am really far from taking part in this odd ranting, Slav-bashing and polonophobia. Now that's about it :cool:


I'd advise you did the same. Wel,l unless you really feel a genuine urge to explain yourself before these individuals and chew their crap ;)

[Monolith]

Anyways, maybe soon enough, we might get presented a proposal for a new world currency (if the dollar goes kaputt), this could be an opportunity to destroy the Globalist paper trade from the root.

Yeah right. Globalization is fueled by capital, and if you increase capital mobility by introducing the world currency, the only thing you get is more globalization.

The facts speak for themselves, I'm afraid. Eastern Europe might just as well be sub-Saharan Africa for the cultural impact it's had on the West.
LMAO :D

And I very very very kindly ask all the real Slavs on this forum to refrain from posting in this thread.
Sorry, but I just can't resist it. :D It's the best laugh I've had in weeks :D

[Freomæg]

Jarl, please know that most (or at least some) of us have absolutely no problem with Poles, Slavs (or Pakistanis for that matter). A healthy number of Eastern Europeans in England - studying, contributing and temporarily adopting the host values - isn't a problem at all as far as I'm concerned. I do however worry when a million people from one nation flock here largely for economic reasons. It has nothing to do with Slavs being better or worse than non-Europeans, or being better or worse than the British, and everything to do with the fact that we British must preserve Britain for the British and not for all Europeans simply because we all happen to be 'white'.

So please, no hard feelings. Our country is in a mess - more so than yours, so I think you can understand some of us getting a little over-defensive at times. I like to think that most Poles and Slavs who are here are good people who plan to return home one day and keep their own culture strong. And in turn we may do the same for ours. Some migrants will always remain here and they deserve nothing but the warmest hospitality so long as they adapt sufficiently.

[Jarl]

Jarl, please know that most (or at least some) of us have absolutely no problem with Poles, Slavs

:)


(or Pakistanis for that matter).

;)


A healthy number of Eastern Europeans in England - studying, contributing and temporarily adopting the host values - isn't a problem at all as far as I'm concerned. I do however worry when a million people from one nation flock here largely for economic reasons. It has nothing to do with Slavs being better or worse than non-Europeans, or being better or worse than the British,

Indeed. Once within the EU, people from different countries can move around freely without any restrictions. It is a problem. It is beyond anybody's control. It is harming Polish economy, depriving the country of the youger most productive generations, and its increasing competition for jobs in the West.


and everything to do with the fact that we British must preserve Britain for the British and not for all Europeans simply because we all happen to be 'white'.

I am a preservationist ;) And as much as I love and I'm indebted to Britain, I would like that to happen. I would like to see Polish families in Poland bringing up Polish children, and British families in Britain, raising the future generations in their own ways. I don't think mass migrations are beneficial. People get up-rooted. They gradually assimilate, but it takes time. And sometimes it can take another course, as meanwhile, such people are prone to all sorts of pressures. This process can often create cosmopolitan people, with no sense of belonging, no traditional values, and by extension no greater care for ones heritage and family. This in turn rebounds on their attitude towards history of their surrogate homeland and its local culture.

Noone is denying the threat here. Migrations should be controlled for the sake of all sides involved.



So please, no hard feelings. Our country is in a mess - more so than yours, so I think you can understand some of us getting a little over-defensive at times.

;) Some ppl seem to go on the offensive however...


I like to think that most Poles and Slavs who are here are good people who plan to return home one day and keep their own culture strong. And in turn we may do the same for ours. Some migrants will always remain here and they deserve nothing but the warmest hospitality so long as they adapt sufficiently.

Most Poles in England are simple people from countryside villages and little towns, doing simple jobs. It is important to remember this as it can sometimes give a rather biased, distorted image of the whole nation.

[Wulfhere]

What facts?

The fact, for example, that throughout history Slavs have lived under despotic feudalistic regimes and more recently Communist ones, never once developing any native form of democracy unless imposed, usually unsuccessfully, from outside. No Slav country has ever contributed anything of any value to Western Civilisation and all of them remain dirt poor, and even today - as if to prove their slave mentality, Slavs will flock to Western European countries in their millions to work in stinking jobs for next to no wages.

I also connot help noticing that quite a few pro-Slav posters here are Slavs who live in the UK. For them I have a simple question - do you intend to return home at any point? Or is it a bit too comfortable here?

[Freomæg]

:thumb001: Jarl! But about the whole EU thing: By using it as an excuse, explanation or justification you are lending your support to it. As a preservationist you should be aware how dangerous the EU is and how Protectionism, which is stifled by the EU, is a vital component to preservationism. Yes the EU facilitates mass inter-European migration - we all know that! - but none of us in Britain have ever voted on it (so you can't say we brought it on ourselves), most of us are opposed to it and I'd like to think that almost everyone on The Apricity is opposed to it. I can't blame non-preservationist Poles from exploiting EU laws, but I can expect pro-preservationist Poles like yourself not to stand up for it. If you oppose something, you should not make use of it. It's like saying you oppose prostitution and then sleeping with a prostitute because you happened to drive past her. Or are you pro-EU?

[Jarl]

The fact, for example, that throughout history Slavs have lived under despotic feudalistic regimes and more recently Communist ones, never once developing any native form of democracy unless imposed, usually unsuccessfully, from outside. No Slav country has ever contributed anything of any value to Western Civilisation and all of them remain dirt poor, and even today - as if to prove their slave mentality, Slavs will flock to Western European countries in their millions to work in stinking jobs for next to no wages.

I also connot help noticing that quite a few pro-Slav posters here are Slavs who live in the UK. For them I have a simple question - do you intend to return home at any point? Or is it a bit too comfortable here?

Sorry, but I am not intending to discuss anything with you. Not now at least. I could not even be bothered to read your post.






As for history... this might help you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Lithuanian_Commonwealth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Liberty

Poland had its own democratic parliment since 1493. It elected monarchs democratically de facto since 1386 (elected by senate and general assembly of szlachta-nobility), and since 1505constitutionally by the parliment. Polish monarchs had much less power than the English ones.



:thumb001: Jarl! But about the whole EU thing: By using it as an excuse, explanation or justification you are lending your support to it. As a preservationist you should be aware how dangerous the EU is and how Protectionism, which is stifled by the EU, is a vital component to preservationism.

I am very far from embracing the EU in the form it is. Im not really using it as an excuse as EU legislation is the real reason behind East European emi/immigration. I am not happy with it.


Yes the EU facilitates mass inter-European migration - we all know that! - but none of us in Britain have ever voted on it (so you can't say we brought it on ourselves), most of us are opposed to it and I'd like to think that almost everyone on The Apricity is opposed to it.

Didn't you have any national referendum organised? There was one in Poland. However, it turned out to be in favour of EU. But most people will always go for money if you grant them the opportunity. So no surprise here.


I can't blame non-preservationist Poles from exploiting EU laws, but I can expect pro-preservationist Poles like yourself not to stand up for it. If you oppose something, you should not make use of it. It's like saying you oppose prostitution and then sleeping with a prostitute because you happened to drive past her. Or are you pro-EU?

I don't think its grossly beneficial to exploit the poorer countries as mass cheap labour force, but Im pro-EU as far as free access to the education is concerned. It does not collide with my preservationist beliefs. I come from a patriotic family with traditions. And I would like to marry a traditional Polish woman. Have loads of kids and talk to them in my own language. I can't imagine anglicising my family.

Oh... and I am a Christian. A real one. Not some bullshit Sunday-only part time one. And I am not casually "sleeping with prostitutes", nor English women, nor anybody because I happen to "drive past" or have an opportunity ;)

[Wulfhere]

Sorry, but I am not intending to discuss anything with you. Not now at least.



This might help you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Lithuanian_Commonwealth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Liberty

Poland had its own democratic parlimant since 1505, and elected monarchs de facto since 1386, (constitutionally since 1505). Polish monarchs had much less power than the English ones.

Because the power was in the hands of the aristocrats - the peasants never had any. It also made for a pathetically weak state, so the worst of both worlds.

[Treffie]

Jarl, please know that most (or at least some) of us have absolutely no problem with Poles, Slavs (or Pakistanis for that matter). A healthy number of Eastern Europeans in England - studying, contributing and temporarily adopting the host values - isn't a problem at all as far as I'm concerned. I do however worry when a million people from one nation flock here largely for economic reasons. It has nothing to do with Slavs being better or worse than non-Europeans, or being better or worse than the British, and everything to do with the fact that we British must preserve Britain for the British and not for all Europeans simply because we all happen to be 'white'.


Erm, that's not their fault. If you had the opportunity to better your life and were given that chance, I'm sure you'd grab it with both hands. As for the volume of Poles coming here, our Govt should have put restrictions on the numbers coming here in the first place. As for numbers, there's approx 500,000 here now.

[Wulfhere]

Sorry, but I am not intending to discuss anything with you. Not now at least. I could not even be bothered to read your post.

Putting your hands over your ears won't change the facts.

[nisse]

The fact, for example, that throughout history Slavs have lived under despotic feudalistic regimes and more recently Communist ones, never once developing any native form of democracy unless imposed, usually unsuccessfully, from outside.
And how brilliantly well democracy has worked for you!

...the slavs that I'm part of did one better - we had an anarchic state ;). For less then a year, sure..but none of you "freemen" even attempted it.


No Slav country has ever contributed anything of any value to Western Civilisation
Close enough to true - so? Your western civilization has nothing to do with us, and hasn't done much good to anyone.


all of them remain dirt poor, and even today - as if to prove their slave mentality, Slavs will flock to Western European countries in their millions to work in stinking jobs for next to no wages.
ROFL - because you're too lazy to clean up after yourselves. Thankfully for you, Slavs still realize that there is honour in all work that is done well (and we tend to do our jobs well ;)). It doesn't matter if you're a doctor or a garbage collector - society need both to function. Too bad many englishmen are so obsessed with status and so afraid of getting their hands dirty that they choose to ignore this simple truth and have to resort to having foreighners (be it Slavs or pakis) change their diapers.


I also connot help noticing that quite a few pro-Slav posters here are Slavs who live in the UK. For them I have a simple question - do you intend to return home at any point? Or is it a bit too comfortable here?
I'm going to guess too comfortable - with mostly people like you to compete with, they're the top of the intellectual food chain :)

[Jarl]

Because the power was in the hands of the aristocrats - the peasants never had any. It also made for a pathetically weak state, so the worst of both worlds.

No. Not aristocrats, but szlachta, nobility and gentry, who constituted 10% of the entire society. Bigger cities and burghers had a large degree of autonomy. Jews had even their own, separate parliment, for a time in Poland. In fact, freedom for burghers and new settlers was the reason for why many Germans, Dutch and Frisians settled in Poland and founded entire villages.

Why, decentralisation and lack of absolute power was the main reason for anarchy and divisions of Poland in XVIIIth century. Monarchs had no ultimate authority. They were utterly dependent on the parliment and could be voted out any time. In fact the last Polish king of the Vasa dynasty abdicated himself, disillusioned over his lack of power.

When were the peasants allowed to vote in the English parilment???


It also made for a pathetically weak state, so the worst of both worlds.

Whatever... I am done with your bullshit ;)


Putting your hands over your ears won't change the facts.

Pulling a string of a-historical bullshit out of ones arse won't change the real historical facts either.

[Wulfhere]

That's folk etymology (pseudo-science). English word for "slave" is derived from Latin "esclavus" with the same meaning.

Actually, it happens to be true. The Latin (Medieval Latin) word is derived from Slav:

slave (n.)
c.1290, "person who is the property of another," from O.Fr. esclave, from M.L. Sclavus "slave" (cf. It. schiavo, Fr. esclave, Sp. esclavo), originally "Slav" (see Slav), so called because of the many Slavs sold into slavery by conquering peoples.
"This sense development arose in the consequence of the wars waged by Otto the Great and his successors against the Slavs, a great number of whom they took captive and sold into slavery." [Klein]
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=slave

Main Entry: 1slave
Pronunciation: \ˈslāv\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English sclave, from Anglo-French or Medieval Latin; Anglo-French esclave, from Medieval Latin sclavus, from Sclavus Slavic; from the frequent enslavement of Slavs in central Europe during the early Middle Ages
Date: 14th century
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slave

[Wulfhere]

Your western civilization has nothing to do with us, and hasn't done much good to anyone.

So why do so many of you want to live in it?

[Treffie]

So why do so many of you want to live in it?

To annoy people like you? :thumb001:

[Wulfhere]

No. Not aristocrats, but szlachta, nobility and gentry, who constituted 10% of the entire society. Bigger cities and burghers had a large degree of autonomy. Jews had even their own, separate parliment, for a time in Poland. In fact, freedom for burghers and new settlers was the reason for why many Germans, Dutch and Frisians settled in Poland and founded entire villages.

Why, decentralisation and lack of absolute power was the main reason for anarchy and divisions of Poland in XVIIIth century. Monarchs had no ultimate authority. They were utterly dependent on the parliment and could be voted out any time. In fact the last Polish king of the Vasa dynasty abdicated himself, disillusioned over his lack of power.

When were the peasants allowed to vote in the English parilment???



Whatever ;)



Pulling a string of a-historical bullshit out of ones arse won't change the real historical facts either.

You say 10% as if it were a lot.

English peasants met together in folk moots and were able to elect their own local officials. These officials in turn met together for hundred moots, and so on up the chain. This is all very common and unremarkable in early Germanic society.

[nisse]

So why do so many of you want to live in it?

Many don't ;). We want to live well back in our own coutries. But there we have to compete with other Slavs and work much harder than in your civilized societies. We're proud of our jobs, but why work more than you have to? We just go over to your countries and send 50+% of our earnings back home, and move back when we retire :wink

Of course some do want to live in the West...as a self esteem boost :D. I hope this thread doesnt't die by the time I get back, but alas, it's so high brow I fear it will :( :D

And others like the infrastructure. It is a lot better in the West (very important if you're planning on living so long you die in diapers). There are confused people among all ethnicities. :(

P.S. I'd love to chat some more, but I've gotta go for my daily self-esteem boost. ;)

[Jarl]

You say 10% as if it were a lot.

English peasants met together in folk moots and were able to elect their own local officials. These officials in turn met together for hundred moots, and so on up the chain. This is all very common and unremarkable in early Germanic society.

Yes? And did the English peasants elect Henry VIII or William of Orange? Did German peasants elect Frederik the Great or Wilhelm II?

For XV-XVIII century, 10% is a lot. England had only 3% by 1780. Plus her monarchs had much more power and were not elected.

Poland never had any absolute monarch. When the Germans and the English were slaughtering each other for religious reasons and burning people at stakes, Poland had its own parliment and was a religious haven for everybody - Lutherans, Hussites, Catholics, Jews and others. When England was still a European isolate, Poland was at the heart of European Renaissance with close links to Italy. Italians, Greeks, Germans, Scots, Frisians and Dutch were coming here to settle down with whole families. So what the hell are you talking about? What slave mentality? Just cut the bullshit and say you simply hate Slavs per se... Don't cover it up with pseudo-historical knowledge as you are blatantly an ignorant.

And btw. Slavs originally were ruled by elders, like the Polabian Veleti or the Old Prussians. Germanics were ruled by monarchs.


ROFL - because you're too lazy to clean up after yourselves. Thankfully for you, Slavs still realize that there is honour in all work that is done well (and we tend to do our jobs well ;)). It doesn't matter if you're a doctor or a garbage collector - society need both to function. Too bad many englishmen are so obsessed with status and so afraid of getting their hands dirty that they choose to ignore this simple truth and have to resort to having foreighners (be it Slavs or pakis) change their diapers.

;)

[Jäger]

Yeah right. Globalization is fueled by capital, and if you increase capital mobility by introducing the world currency, the only thing you get is more globalization.
I wasn't clear enough, sorry. What I meant is, this proposal will come from the current (Globalist) oligarchy, and then it is our opportunity to destroy the banking system entirely.
Not that I would want a global currency.
Those who will be successful in establishing their currency, rule, "we" should rival this.

[Osweo]

I don't know, Wulfhere. I'm torn. I could just dismiss you as the uneducated ignorant fool that you are, or I could try to convince you somehow of your error. The latter is bleeding hard work, given that you've so absorbed the stupid ideas you've heard. They were so EASY to absorb in the first place because of their alluring simplicity, the inherent 'beauty' you could almost call it, of the fairy tale cosmology they portray. You like Tolkien - and you've unwittingly adopted a view of your actual continent that resembles his Andor-Gondor/Mordor bipolarity! Is it really so hard to think that, just maybe, real life isn't really like that?

Odd then that they've lived under despotic, megalomaniacal regimes for pretty much their entire history. We would never have put up with that.
We have done too and are doing now. We are perhaps worse off as we don't even REALISE for the most part what a tyranny we live under. The majority of our people are naive as fuck. You should go to the East for a while, and see how far more widespread cynicism is there, among your so called slaves...

You talk as if there's no history of resistance in Slavdom.
Russian mediaeval history can pretty much be summed up as one of recurrent peasant revolts, against the most desperate odds.
The Poles, your favourites, pretty much excel in this sphere, indeed. Read about 1830. The fact that there's even a Poland LEFT is testament to something, given the shit that geopolitics

The English word slave is derived from Slav, because they were often employed as slaves in ancient times.
You think Englishmen have never been taken as slaves? I suggest you research the Danish part of our history.
We only say 'slave' instead of native 'thrall' because of the prestige of French, due to the Norman Conquest, when every single Englishman became a de facto slave of a foreign monarch. We have such a slave mentality here that we gave up half our own language!

That Slavs have a slave mentality is also indicated by the sort of governments they've always allowed themselves to be ruled by.
All you know of Slavonic history is the History Channel version of what happened in the last century, I bet. And a few sensationalist titbits from Ivan the Terrible's reign and whatnot. Prove me wrong.

And think for one second about geography. When the Turks and Tatars, and Germans are forever breathing down your neck, things are rather different from circumstances on a pleasantly insulated little archipelago in the Atlantic Ocean.

The fact, for example, that throughout history Slavs have lived under despotic feudalistic regimes and more recently Communist ones, never once developing any native form of democracy unless imposed, usually unsuccessfully, from outside.
You're pig-ignorant.
Never heard of the institution of the 'veche' in most Eastern Slavonic towns? Never heard of Novgorod or Vyatka?
Never heard of the organisation of the village commune itself in the Russian lands?
I know less about the western Slavs, but I'm sure they have their own analogues.

No Slav country has ever contributed anything of any value to Western Civilisation and all of them remain dirt poor,
The purpose of being a Slav, is to contribute to SLAVONIC civilisation!

Even on your idiotic terms they haven't been idle. As though Russian and Polish and Serbian scientists never did anything worthwhile! Switch on 'Classic FM', and you'll probably spend half the day listening to Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev, Rakhmaninov, Chopin et al.

As for poverty, I can only suggest you travel to Russia, and get your eyes opened by some reality rather than ideological drivel from the bottom of the political barrel.

[Jarl]

Yeah! I think you are correct Osweo. It is bizzare, but many people seem to confuse Slavs with Mordor. And persist in ignorantly labelling all Slavs, arguably the most diverse IE ethnicity, with Russian absolutism, throwing them into one bag.

[SuuT]

*yawn...

Yet another exemplary thread about how prurient intra-European infighting will be the death of a continent.

Who needs to divide and conquer when this is offered-up on a silver platter to economic, ethnic, cultural, spiritual and Racial aggressors?


Unite the House - decide who occupies what room later. As soon as everyone agrees upon this, we have the leverage to do something.




Simple enough?

[Jäger]

Unite the House - decide who occupies what room later. As soon as everyone agrees upon this, we have the leverage to do something.
Unity, in what sense?
The degradation of Germans (or English for that matter) into Europeans, or even Whitelings, is no alternative.
What we can observe is a conquest (in this case through Polacks), even if just in a individualized-naive-opportunistic (opposed to a group-centered-conscious-opportunistic) manner.
It furthers the destruction of an English social cohesion, and thus should be rejected.

In truth, currently, no one rivals our survival except degenerate European nations and their Godfather the USA.

The expression of hostile feelings here is just due to a lack of understanding.
However, not necessarily misdirected ;).

[Beorn]

Let acwellan and others do what they want in this provocative thread.

Is this thread provocative? It certainly wasn't posted to be provocative. It was posted to create discussion and enrich our little PC obsessed lives.

If I wanted to be provocative I could get drunk and really speak my mind, but I don't because that should be saved for the day we rise up and expel you all by the sword, and hack off your....ahem...sorry. Yes, quite. Carry on.


Frankly, I just can't give a stinking rat about what they think.


If you didn't then why did you keep writing in this thread? :)

[Jarl]

What we can observe is a conquest (in this case through Polacks), even if just in a individualized-naive-opportunistic (opposed to a group-centered-conscious-opportunistic) manner.

It is not a conquest then. And surely you do not believe it is that dramatic yourself ;)


If you didn't then why did you keep writing in this thread? :)

I said I am ready to participate in factual, history-based discussions, not in a rant. Cythraul's sensible post grabbed my attention.

[Wulfhere]

Yes? And did the English peasants elect Henry VIII or William of Orange? Did German peasants elect Frederik the Great or Wilhelm II?

For XV-XVIII century, 10% is a lot. England had only 3% by 1780. Plus her monarchs had much more power and were not elected.

Poland never had any absolute monarch. When the Germans and the English were slaughtering each other for religious reasons and burning people at stakes, Poland had its own parliment and was a religious haven for everybody - Lutherans, Hussites, Catholics, Jews and others. When England was still a European isolate, Poland was at the heart of European Renaissance with close links to Italy. Italians, Greeks, Germans, Scots, Frisians and Dutch were coming here to settle down with whole families. So what the hell are you talking about? What slave mentality? Just cut the bullshit and say you simply hate Slavs per se... Don't cover it up with pseudo-historical knowledge as you are blatantly an ignorant.

And btw. Slavs originally were ruled by elders, like the Polabian Veleti or the Old Prussians. Germanics were ruled by monarchs.



;)

Representation in the English parliament was gradually eroded, not the other way round.

English monarchs were never absolute either, and though hereditary were often deposed and replaced by parliament.

England being an isolate was a very good idea.

Elders, monarchs - what's the difference? Those are just titles.

I have nothing against the Slavs, and often remark on the attractiveness of Polish barmaids for example, of which there are now very many.

[Jarl]

Representation in the English parliament was gradually eroded, not the other way round.

Then paradoxically you underwent a regression. But when were the peasants allowed to vote? Under Plantagenets? Tudors? The fact is that by 1780 England was still an elitist society with only 3% of people having influence over politics.


English monarchs were never absolute either, and though hereditary were often deposed and replaced by parliament.

Yet they were still hereditary, could impose taxes, declare war etc. And had ultimate authority until the Bill of Rights in 1689.


England being an isolate was a very good idea.

In certain ways and up to a point.


Elders, monarchs - what's the difference? Those are just titles.

What I meant is that absolutism was mostly restricted to Eastern, Byzantine-influenced Orthodox Slavdom. It was a feudal development typical of Germanic and Slavic societies alike. Typical of the Medieval Ages. Some Slavs embraced it more than others. Some, like the pagan democratic Veleti, rejected it altogether.

However, Slavs were originally made of little autonomous decentralised clans dispersed over large territories in loosely connected settlements. There was nothing slave-like in them. Quite the opposite. They hated any power and had to be coerced. First long lasting, centralised Slavic feudal states emerged in VIII-IX century. Read Procopius' account of the Slavs, their life and customs.


I have nothing against the Slavs, and often remark on the attractiveness of Polish barmaids for example, of which there are now very many.

I can't buy that ;)

[Wulfhere]

I don't know, Wulfhere. I'm torn. I could just dismiss you as the uneducated ignorant fool that you are, or I could try to convince you somehow of your error. The latter is bleeding hard work, given that you've so absorbed the stupid ideas you've heard. They were so EASY to absorb in the first place because of their alluring simplicity, the inherent 'beauty' you could almost call it, of the fairy tale cosmology they portray. You like Tolkien - and you've unwittingly adopted a view of your actual continent that resembles his Andor-Gondor/Mordor bipolarity! Is it really so hard to think that, just maybe, real life isn't really like that?

We have done too and are doing now. We are perhaps worse off as we don't even REALISE for the most part what a tyranny we live under. The majority of our people are naive as fuck. You should go to the East for a while, and see how far more widespread cynicism is there, among your so called slaves...

You talk as if there's no history of resistance in Slavdom.
Russian mediaeval history can pretty much be summed up as one of recurrent peasant revolts, against the most desperate odds.
The Poles, your favourites, pretty much excel in this sphere, indeed. Read about 1830. The fact that there's even a Poland LEFT is testament to something, given the shit that geopolitics

You think Englishmen have never been taken as slaves? I suggest you research the Danish part of our history.
We only say 'slave' instead of native 'thrall' because of the prestige of French, due to the Norman Conquest, when every single Englishman became a de facto slave of a foreign monarch. We have such a slave mentality here that we gave up half our own language!

All you know of Slavonic history is the History Channel version of what happened in the last century, I bet. And a few sensationalist titbits from Ivan the Terrible's reign and whatnot. Prove me wrong.

And think for one second about geography. When the Turks and Tatars, and Germans are forever breathing down your neck, things are rather different from circumstances on a pleasantly insulated little archipelago in the Atlantic Ocean.

You're pig-ignorant.
Never heard of the institution of the 'veche' in most Eastern Slavonic towns? Never heard of Novgorod or Vyatka?
Never heard of the organisation of the village commune itself in the Russian lands?
I know less about the western Slavs, but I'm sure they have their own analogues.

The purpose of being a Slav, is to contribute to SLAVONIC civilisation!

Even on your idiotic terms they haven't been idle. As though Russian and Polish and Serbian scientists never did anything worthwhile! Switch on 'Classic FM', and you'll probably spend half the day listening to Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev, Rakhmaninov, Chopin et al.

As for poverty, I can only suggest you travel to Russia, and get your eyes opened by some reality rather than ideological drivel from the bottom of the political barrel.

Tolkien's description of European civilisation and the constant battle between the free West and despotic East is just about spot on, for almost any period.

So if Slavonic civilisation is not the same as Western civilisation why are we even bothering to discuss it? If they have no place in our culture why is it even an issue?

[Jarl]

So if Slavonic civilisation is not the same as Western civilisation why are we even bothering to discuss it? If they have no place in our culture why is it even an issue?

There is no such thing as "Slavonic civilisation". Ask any Slav in here. Just as there is no "Germanic civilisation". They are non-existent. We had discussions on Pan-Slavism and Pan-Germanism and their success. Or rather the lack of it.

The sole failure of Pan-Slavism is the best proof that the differences between the Slavs, whether political/historical, linguistic, cultural, or religious, were simply too great.

[Freomæg]

Erm, that's not their fault. If you had the opportunity to better your life and were given that chance, I'm sure you'd grab it with both hands. As for the volume of Poles coming here, our Govt should have put restrictions on the numbers coming here in the first place. As for numbers, there's approx 500,000 here now.
Oh I never said it the Poles themselves were to blame mate. I blame one thing only - the EU and all the corrupt Internationalists who run it undemocratically.

[Wulfhere]

Then paradoxically you underwent a regression. But when were the peasants allowed to vote? Under Plantagenets? Tudors? The fact is that by 1780 England was still an elitist society with only 3% of people having influence over politics.



Yet they were still hereditary, could impose taxes, declare war etc. And had ultimate authority until the Bill of Rights in 1689.



In certain ways and up to a point.



What I meant is that absolutism was mostly restricted to Eastern, Byzantine-influenced Orthodox Slavdom. It was a feudal development typical of Germanic and Slavic societies alike. Typical of the Medieval Ages. Some Slavs embraced it more than others. Some, like the pagan democratic Veleti, rejected it altogether.

However, Slavs were originally made of little autonomous decentralised clans dispersed over large territories in loosely connected settlements. There was nothing slave-like in them. Quite the opposite. They hated any power. Read Procopius' account of the Slavs, their life and customs.



I can't buy that ;)

Yes, English freedoms did undergo a gradual regression, but then gradually re-emerged. Most other places had those freedoms removed completely. Like France for example.

No English monarch could act without the consent, grudgingly or otherwise, of parliament. As the fate of those who tried (e.g. Richard II, Charles I) proves.

Whether you buy it or not, I do indeed find many Polish barmaids attractive. :)

[Jarl]

Well you see the reality yourself then. Peoples' rights have always been restricted. Everywhere. Not just in the Slavic countries. Besides, every Slavic country/nation has its own distinct history. One reason for which Poles resented the Russians was the absolutism of the tsars (which many Russians resented too), the political system they have never managed to integrate into. People fought and gave life to get rid of absolutism. Polish government from the January Uprising 1863-1864 ended serfdom and granted land to the peasants, before tsar Alexander II did. The government was composed mostly of members of intelligentsia and nobility. So was the army which enforced the laws. Kosciuszko recruited the peasants and granted them certain rights. Some Poles fought in the American Independence war. They fought for their freedom and independence with Napoleon. Poles were engaged in most XIX century's democratic nationalist movements - Italian, Hungarian, Russian. Accusations of slave-like mentality are thus somewhat odd and misdirected. I would be very careful when talking of "Slav mentality" and "Slavonic civilisations". Slavs are too diverse for that.

[Beorn]

Oh I never said it the Poles themselves were to blame mate.

Well you should do. It takes two to Tango.

The finger of blame lies squarely upon both the Government and the people who step foot upon this shore to "better their lives".

[Jarl]

Anyway. Before and after divisions of Poland, Poles fought in:

US Independence war 1775 -1783

Polish Independece war / Kosciuszko Uprising 1793-1795

Napoleonic Wars 1792-1815

November Uprising against Russia 1830-1831

Uprising against Prussia 1846, 1848

Cracovian uprising against Austria 1846

Hungarian Uprising 1846-1848

Garibaldi's campaigns

January Uprising against Russia 1863-1864

against Soviets in 1920

in Spanish Civil War and occupation 1939-1945

later, after 1945, in resistance against Soviets and communism

Slave mentality is the last thing I would use to describe their attitude... ;)

[Jarl]

Well you should do. It takes two to Tango.

The finger of blame lies squarely upon both the Government and the people who step foot upon this shore to "better their lives".


What about the people who elected the government which decided UK joins the EU?

Oh... but wait a second... How would they then buy their properties in Italy, Portugal and Spain, huh? ;)

[Beorn]

What about the people who elected the government which decided UK joins the EU?

Yes, of course, but the discussion was concerned between the blame being of the immigrants or of the government.


Oh... but wait a second... How would they then buy their properties in Italy, Portugal and Spain, huh? ;)

I wouldn't know. I care little for what traitors wish to spend their money on.

Burn the fucking lot of them, say I.

[SuuT]

Unity, in what sense?

Against the agreed upon enemy, of course: Have not enough, and anyone can conquer; have too few, and expect the same result (my father used to say this, by the way).


The degradation of Germans (or English for that matter) into Europeans, or even Whitelings, is no alternative.

Aus der Not eine Tugend machen: Surely you would recognise the capacity to adapt to a given dynamic and the circumstances that that dynamic provides a benchmark of a leader...? - I am not suggesting that anyone give up what is intrinsic to their respective Identity over the long-term. What I am suggesting is that each and every European Identity is strong enough to not whither and die over the short term of unity against a common foe.


What we can observe is a conquest (in this case through Polacks), even if just in a individualized-naive-opportunistic (opposed to a group-centered-conscious-opportunistic) manner.
It furthers the destruction of an English social cohesion, and thus should be rejected.

You need to reject it later. - Not now.


In truth, currently, no one rivals our survival except degenerate European nations and their Godfather the USA.

Obfuscation of cause and symptom: Certain European nations are degenerate as they are more succeptible to being controlled from without.


The expression of hostile feelings here is just due to a lack of understanding.
However, not necessarily misdirected ;).

This depends upon how one recognises and utilises the concept of 'misdirection'. Alter schützt vor Torheit nicht und Das ist noch nicht aktuell: The fool in this case being the manner in which a group has always thought.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Wulf, I don't really agree with what you have said in this thread. While your intentions may be noble but I feel they are misled. Comparing us to lowly slaves, that we are incapable of thought is a big mistake on your part. The development of a lot Slavic states were ruined by Ottoman occupation, constant warfare, and communism. The South Slavic states were occupied by the Ottomans for nearly 500 years thanks to their military hegemony over us. It wasn't until Russia received news of a massacre that happened in Batak in Bulgaria that did they decide to totally liberate the Balkans and kick out the Ottomans out of Europe. Russia was fully prepared to take Constantinople from them too but it was your ilk who stopped the Russians from kicking out the Ottomans by sending a large fleet of ships to Constantinople. So, I'd be a bit more careful what I'd say if I was you.

The so-called Great Britain also was at one time completely ruled by Jews, ever heard of Prime Minister Disraeli?

[Beorn]

The so-called Great Britain also was at one time completely ruled by Jews, ever heard of Prime Minister Disraeli?

Disraeli was an Anglican convert. He converted at the age of 13.

[Zyklop]

Speaking of Tolkien, I recently came across what looks to me like his explanation of Polish ethnogenesis:


The first orcs were elves, whom Morgoth, the first dark lord, captured, and by dark sorcery and torture, twisted them into the forms of Orcs. Ironic, is it not, that the Elves' foes were once elves themselves?
The relevant passage in The Silmarillion reads:
"Yet this is held true by the wise of Eressëa, that all those of the Quendi [elves] who came into the hands of Melkor, ere Utumno was broken, were put there in prison, and by slow arts of cruelty were corrupted and enslaved; and thus did Melkor breed the hideous race of the Orcs in envy and mockery of the Elves, of whom they were afterwards the bitterest foes."
"And deep in their dark hearts the Orcs loathed the Master whom they served in fear, the maker only of their misery. This it may be was the vilest deed of Melkor, and the most hateful to Ilúvatar."

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_does_JRR_Tolkien_say_orcs_came_to_be

[poiuytrewq0987]

Disraeli was an Anglican convert. He converted at the age of 13.

Why does it matter if he converted to Christianity when he was very young? Jews always does anything to infiltrate to positions of power in European governments.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Speaking of Tolkien, I recently came across what looks to me like his explanation of Polish ethnogenesis:

The first orcs were elves, whom Morgoth, the first dark lord, captured, and by dark sorcery and torture, twisted them into the forms of Orcs. Ironic, is it not, that the Elves' foes were once elves themselves?
The relevant passage in The Silmarillion reads:
"Yet this is held true by the wise of Eressëa, that all those of the Quendi [elves] who came into the hands of Melkor, ere Utumno was broken, were put there in prison, and by slow arts of cruelty were corrupted and enslaved; and thus did Melkor breed the hideous race of the Orcs in envy and mockery of the Elves, of whom they were afterwards the bitterest foes."
"And deep in their dark hearts the Orcs loathed the Master whom they served in fear, the maker only of their misery. This it may be was the vilest deed of Melkor, and the most hateful to Ilúvatar."

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_does_JRR_Tolkien_say_orcs_came_to_be


You can always make anything to be anything you want if you believe it hard enough.

[Wulfhere]

Wulf, I don't really agree with what you have said in this thread. While your intentions may be noble but I feel they are misled. Comparing us to lowly slaves, that we are incapable of thought is a big mistake on your part. The development of a lot Slavic states were ruined by Ottoman occupation, constant warfare, and communism. The South Slavic states were occupied by the Ottomans for nearly 500 years thanks to their military hegemony over us. It wasn't until Russia received news of a massacre that happened in Batak in Bulgaria that did they decide to totally liberate the Balkans and kick out the Ottomans out of Europe. Russia was fully prepared to take Constantinople from them too but it was your ilk who stopped the Russians from kicking out the Ottomans by sending a large fleet of ships to Constantinople. So, I'd be a bit more careful what I'd say if I was you.

The so-called Great Britain also was at one time completely ruled by Jews, ever heard of Prime Minister Disraeli?

I don't believe I ever accused the Slavs of being incapable of thought. Indeed, I said exactly the opposite - when I said that they think differently to us, I explicitely stated that they do indeed think (albeit differently).

"So-called" Great Britain? What's that supposed to mean? Britain is great because it's larger than Little Britain, i.e. Brittany. And it was never ruled by Jews, either.

[Wulfhere]

Why does it matter if he converted to Christianity when he was very young? Jews always does anything to infiltrate to positions of power in European governments.

The Jews are not the problem. Muslims are. Jews are our allies.

[poiuytrewq0987]

The Jews are not the problem. Muslims are. Jews are our allies.

I disagree, sorry. It is the Jews who has made it "evil" to oppose the Muslim infiltration of Europe. The Jews weren't kicked out of many European countries many times for a reason.

[SuuT]

The Jews are not the problem. ... Jews are our allies.

* NUTTER ALERT...NUTTER ALERT...NUTTER ALERT...

[poiuytrewq0987]

I don't believe I ever accused the Slavs of being incapable of thought. Indeed, I said exactly the opposite - when I said that they think differently to us, I explicitely stated that they do indeed think (albeit differently).

"So-called" Great Britain? What's that supposed to mean? Britain is great because it's larger than Little Britain, i.e. Brittany. And it was never ruled by Jews, either.

Britain is being ruled by Jews through influence, please do tell who do you think is behind in allowing Pakis, Indians, and every other unscrupulous non-Europeans to migrate to the UK and Ireland.

[Wulfhere]

Britain is being ruled by Jews through influence, please do tell who do you think is behind in allowing Pakis, Indians, and every other unscrupulous non-Europeans to migrate to the UK and Ireland.

I don't think the Jews are responsible for that, but mainly big-business (mostly non-Jewish, to pre-empt your next point).

[poiuytrewq0987]

I don't think the Jews are responsible for that, but mainly big-business (mostly non-Jewish, to pre-empt your next point).

It is easy to place blame on "big business" because it is easy for you to rationalize that way. Any politician with a speck of brain knows the non-European immigrants are ruining Britain. What stops them from doing voicing their opinion and actually do something about it? It isn't the big business, the big business surely enable the practice but they're not behind the creation of political correction, the fear of being called a racist in the political spectrum. Trotsky, a Jew from Russia invented the term "racist" and the Jews have been using that term to advance every single aspect of their lives at our expense. Political correctness? Also invented by Jews, it was crafted in a way that we'd be afraid to voice our opinions out of a fear of being called a hatemonger or a racist. It's really humorous that you're here, on a European preservationist website when you have attacked Slavs in the most vile ways and enabled those who have allowed the ruin of Britain to happen.

[SuuT]

Britain is being ruled by Jews through influence, please do tell who do you think is behind in allowing Pakis, Indians, and every other unscrupulous non-Europeans to migrate to the UK and Ireland.

*NUTTER ALERT ... NUTTER ALERT ... NUTTER ALERT ...

[Wulfhere]

It is easy to place blame on "big business" because it is easy for you to rationalize that way. Any politician with a speck of brain knows the non-European immigrants are ruining Britain. What stops them from doing voicing their opinion and actually do something about it? It isn't the big business, the big business surely enable the practice but they're not behind the creation of political correction, the fear of being called a racist in the political spectrum. Trotsky, a Jew from Russia invented the term "racist" and the Jews have been using that term to advance every single aspect of their lives at our expense. Political correctness? Also invented by Jews, it was crafted in a way that we'd be afraid to voice our opinions out of a fear of being called a hatemonger or a racist. It's really humorous that you're here, on a European preservationist website when you have attacked Slavs in the most vile ways and enabled those who have allowed the ruin of Britain to happen.

On the contrary. Anti-Jewish sentiment plays directly into the hands of the Muslims, who have always been Europe's true enemy. You appear to have fallen into that same trap.

[poiuytrewq0987]

On the contrary. Anti-Jewish sentiment plays directly into the hands of the Muslims, who have always been Europe's true enemy. You appear to have fallen into that same trap.

Incorrect, my country has 700,000 Turks and all of them Muslim. I just don't let my dislike of Muslims to blind me of the ones who are responsible for various factors that began it all.

[Wulfhere]

Incorrect, my country has 700,000 Turks and all of them Muslim. I just don't let my dislike of Muslims to blind me of the ones who are responsible for various factors that began it all.

Bulgaria has been under Muslim influence for centuries, hence your acceptance of them and your dislike of Jews.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Bulgaria has been under Muslim influence for centuries, hence your acceptance of them and your dislike of Jews.

Again, you're trying to rationalize. You're extremely ignorant to think that I accept the Muslims. I do not want a single mosque on my land, a single Muslim praying on my land but if I were to do something about it, there would be cries of racism, hate, and genocide.

Muslim influence? I disagree, the Ottomans occupied us for 500 years and they were unable to Turkicify our country and convert all of us to Islam.

[Wulfhere]

Again, you're trying to rationalize. You're extremely ignorant to think that I accept the Muslims. I do not want a single mosque on my land, a single Muslim praying on my land but if I were to do something about it, there would be cries of racism, hate, and genocide.

Muslim influence? I disagree, the Ottomans occupied us for 500 years and they were unable to Turkicify our country and convert all of us to Islam.

You cannot be occupied for 500 years without being influenced. Those 700,000 Muslims who are still there, for example. There was probably quite a lot of inter-breeding too.

[poiuytrewq0987]

You cannot be occupied for 500 years without being influenced. Those 700,000 Muslims who are still there, for example. There was probably quite a lot of inter-breeding too.



Really? Mudslinging, is that how low you want to get? I know I'm going to disappoint you but interbreeding was and still is rare because they are Muslims and we are Christians and the lives of both peoples were always divided on religious lines hence the reason why no interbreeding took place aside rare cases.

There is a reason why the Ottoman occupation of the Balkans was called a total failure, fyi. They barely influenced the Balkan peoples, aside the Bosnians and Albanians who have mostly converted to Islam.

[Murphy]

I stopped reading this thread when I saw our Mercian friend posting.

Regards,
The Papist.

[Beorn]

Why does it matter if he converted to Christianity when he was very young?

It matters in this instance because Disraeli was often remarked upon for his absolute devotion towards the Anglican church, and his remarkable ability to not let his Jewish ethnicity sway his mind on important matters of state.


The Jews weren't kicked out of many European countries many times for a reason.

A few years ago I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly, but thankfully I have read and read and read and found my previous opinion to be false and untrue.

Yes, the Jews have had an exceptional amount of exclusions and mass exoduses from European nations, but with a good reason.

The ruling power of each European nation was in debt or owed some form of allegiance to the Jews through their own avarice and greed.

Take Edward I for a prime example. He expelled the Jews not because he hated the Jews, but because he was heavily in debt to the Jews and so were his nobles. In order to finance further expeditions into Wales, and placate his rebellious nobles, he decided to rescind the Jews ability to practice usury in England and finally in 1290 removed all Jews from England, generating a great wealth from the Jews money and properties.

His nobles were placated by having suddenly found themselves debt free once more, the church was more than joyous to see the backs of the Jews and woe betide the Welsh that were ultimately subjugated.

This happened all over Europe in some form or another.

[Jäger]

It is not a conquest then.
This is just semantics, the outcome is the same.


And surely you do not believe it is that dramatic yourself ;)
It certainly is not about dramaturgy, it is just a problem that needs to be handled. IF the English want to survive (which I seriously doubt) that is.


Against the agreed upon enemy, of course
So, our (mid-term) goal is an organizational structure (preferably a state), which shall, among other things, strengthen our social cohesion. Consequentially, enemies to said cause, are our identified enemies, can we agree on that? :)
A Polack living in Germany destroys said cohesion, yet, could help us achieving said organizational structure (somehow, we give him the benefit of the doubt :D). This would imply, he knows success will be the end of his stay.
This rules out a great deal of Polacks, who want to continue exploiting our weakness, and which characterizes most emigrants to begin with.

More specifically, we are talking about Polacks, and there should be alternatives, allies with less conflicting interests.


What I am suggesting is that each and every European Identity is strong enough to not whither and die over the short term of unity against a common foe.
Ya, well. They are not strong "enough", because there is no equality in said forces, and it is simple, if two forces clash, the weaker will tumble.


You need to reject it later. - Not now.
Homogeneity is a paramount prerequisite for a strong striking force, be it physical or mental strikes, pumping efforts into homogenizing a heterogeneous mass, only to diversify later on seems .. risky, to say the least.


Obfuscation of cause and symptom: Certain European nations are degenerate as they are more succeptible to being controlled from without.
Ha! But the very problem is that these forces live within. :eek:


The fool in this case being the manner in which a group has always thought.
You may, as some sort of mediator, propose alternatives conducting our struggles with our competitors. A truce, with the effect of strengthening our competitors seems (once again) risky, to say the least.

[Wulfhere]

Really? Mudslinging, is that how low you want to get? I know I'm going to disappoint you but interbreeding was and still is rare because they are Muslims and we are Christians and the lives of both peoples were always divided on religious lines hence the reason why no interbreeding took place aside rare cases.

There is a reason why the Ottoman occupation of the Balkans was called a total failure, fyi. They barely influenced the Balkan peoples, aside the Bosnians and Albanians who have mostly converted to Islam.

The truth is never mudslinging. The Balkans were occupied for centuries and Turkish influence is everywhere. Sorry mate, but some of your ancestors are undoubtedly Turkish.

[Wulfhere]

I stopped reading this thread when I saw our Mercian friend posting.

Regards,
The Papist.

Why bother making a post, then?

[Murphy]

Why bother making a post, then?

I just wanted to highlight how much of a fucking idiot I feel you are.

Regards,
The Papist.

[Wulfhere]

I just wanted to highlight how much of a fucking idiot I feel you are.

Regards,
The Papist.

The feeling, I assure you, is mutual.

[poiuytrewq0987]

The truth is never mudslinging. The Balkans were occupied for centuries and Turkish influence is everywhere. Sorry mate, but some of your ancestors are undoubtedly Turkish.

Oh, so blanket statements can be taken as fact? Bulgaria is full of white Europeans, not racially-mixed Bulgarians as you'd like to believe to make my posts here invalid because I am supposedly non-European by your wild claims.

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by SuuT
Simple enough?

The problem is the twenty something Englishman who still thinks we’re at war with Germany whilst largely indifferent to living on a street that could have been lifted whole sale from down town Islamabad…….where to even begin on that one?

[Wulfhere]

Oh, so blanket statements can be taken as fact? Bulgaria is full of white Europeans, not racially-mixed Bulgarians as you'd like to believe to make my posts here invalid because I am supposedly non-European by your wild claims.

You are reading far too much into what I said. Turks occupied Bulgaria for centuries, so Turkish DNA will have entered the local population (often by less than pleasant means). I made no moral judgement about that fact.

[poiuytrewq0987]

You are reading far too much into what I said. Turks occupied Bulgaria for centuries, so Turkish DNA will have entered the local population (often by less than pleasant means). I made no moral judgement about that fact.

Of course, there are Bulgarians with Turkish genes but then again who have Turkish blood are not Bulgarians, period. Just as blacks in the USA who are 50% European (black daddy, white mammy) cannot be considered American because they are not fully European.

[SuuT]

So, our (mid-term) goal is an organizational structure (preferably a state)...

As gut-wrenching as it may be:D;), I'm asking you to think beyond Nationalism in the short term: As I am certain a good;) German knows, Nietzsche considered Nationalism as Neurosis: Try to think beyond this Machiavellian construct (i.e., the State).


...A Polack living in Germany destroys said cohesion,

Is Germany this weak...?


More specifically, we are talking about Polacks, and there should be alternatives, allies with less conflicting interests.

Is Germany this weak?


Ya, well. They are not strong "enough", because there is no equality in said forces, and it is simple, if two forces clash, the weaker will tumble.

Then you have no worries. ;)


Homogeneity is a paramount prerequisite for a strong striking force,

Sure, but what you don't seem to be cognising is that Poles are the least of Germany's (or Britain's) concern: Poles are not the architect of the current socio-economic dynamic in Britain (or Germany, for that matter): One either does or does not (it seems) recognise that the influx of Easterners are symptoms of a through-and-through more significant malaise. - Specifically, that of Economic control on behalf of the inter-national super rich that absolutely adore reading superflous and misdirected debates such as these on the internet.


Ha! But the very problem is that these forces live within. :eek:

Indeed.

[Wulfhere]

Of course, there are Bulgarians with Turkish genes but then again who have Turkish blood are not Bulgarians, period. Just as blacks in the USA who are 50% European (black daddy, white mammy) cannot be considered American because they are not fully European.

American blacks are just as American as American whites - all descended from immigrants.

[poiuytrewq0987]

American blacks are just as American as American whites - all descended from immigrants.

Don't try to twist my words, when I said American I was referring to European Americans who built the USA.

[Wulfhere]

Don't try to twist my words, when I said American I was referring to European Americans who built the USA.

Specifically, the English. But in 1776 they turned their back on their ancestry, and later set up a multi-racial society.

[SuuT]

The problem is the twenty something Englishman who still thinks we’re at war with Germany whilst largely indifferent to living on a street that could have been lifted whole sale from down town Islamabad…….where to even begin on that one?

Patience: If we are facing in the right direction, all we have to do is keep on walking.

[Monolith]

You are reading far too much into what I said. Turks occupied Bulgaria for centuries, so Turkish DNA will have entered the local population (often by less than pleasant means). I made no moral judgement about that fact.
Here's a study that may be of some interest:
http://www.ib.unicamp.br/caeb/Eduardo%20Becker/art%2008.pdf

[Crux]

If we go back to Tolkein, wasn't Gondor modeled after mainly by the Alpine-Slavonic/Northern Balkanic people ? Even their names sound like names that would be used in that period and by those people.

BoroMIR
FaraMIR
HotiMIR (Carantanian Prince)

The insignia of Gondor is also a tree of which influence could be said to be the old Slavonic tree of life that the people at that time held dear.

Though I am not a big Tolkein fan, just saying what I heard.

[poiuytrewq0987]

If we go back to Tolkein, wasn't Gondor modeled after mainly by the Alpine-Slavonic/Northern Balkanic people ? Even their names sound like names that would be used in that period and by those people.

BoroMIR
FaraMIR
HotiMIR (Carantanian Prince)

The insignia of Gondor is also a tree of which influence could be said to be the old Slavonic tree of life that the people at that time held dear.

Though I am not a big Tolkein fan, just saying what I heard.

I don't know about the Slavic connection although I've always saw Gondorians to be Southern Europeans because of their location. Greece and Bulgaria border the Turks in real world; it is the same with Gondor, it borders Mordor. And the location of Gondor is at the very south compared to Rohan and Dale where they are northernmost. In my opinion, Rohan represents the Celts in real world because of their dress style and architecture. I'd say the Men of Dale and Arnor represent the Germans and Nordics.

Although I would not really go so far and try to connect fantasy world with real world though. ;)

[Crux]

Here is a map I found of the Middle Eart, again I do not know how accurate it is but it is quite interresting.
http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/middle-earth.jpg

[poiuytrewq0987]

Here is a map I found of the Middle Eart, again I do not know how accurate it is but it is quite interresting.
http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/middle-earth.jpg

I've not looked at the Middle Earth from that perspective before. Look at Arnor, it looks like the British Isles. Khand looks like Anatolia, and south of Eriador looks like Spain.

[Jäger]

I'm asking you to think beyond Nationalism in the short term: As I am certain a good;) German knows, Nietzsche considered Nationalism as Neurosis: Try to think beyond this Machiavellian construct (i.e., the State).
Of course, I think about a Reich, not a state :)
However, no matter what, the organizational structure has the purpose of protection, there is no alternative, we just must decide what to protect.


Is Germany this weak...?
It is basically dead.


Sure, but what you don't seem to be cognising is that Poles are the least of Germany's (or Britain's) concern: Poles are not the architect of the current socio-economic dynamic in Britain (or Germany, for that matter): One either does or does not (it seems) recognise that the influx of Easterners are symptoms of a through-and-through more significant malaise.
I am well aware of this. I do not blame them for our mess, as I said, most emigrants are just being opportunistic.
I simply do not see what there is to unite, since those immigrant Polacks are much stronger beneficiaries of these degenerate systems. Not worth the effort.
Why not unite with China? (which I wouldn't exclude, this is not supposed to be sarcastic)

[Cail]

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/middle-earth.jpg
Lol, looks just like distorted map of Europe. In this case, Eriador is France, Rivendell is Netherlands, and Gondor is northern Italy (allusions to Roman Empire)? In this case, Mordor is somewhere in Hungary :lightbul:. And Eastern Europe is Rhûn, not that bad after all - at least we aren't orcs or smth worse :p.

[Beorn]

The Real Middle Earth (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5950)

[Murphy]

In my opinion, Rohan represents the Celts in real world because of their dress style and architecture. I'd say the Men of Dale and Arnor represent the Germans and Nordics.

Actually, the Rohirrim are very much representative of the Germanic Saxons. The only real Celtic influence in Tolkien's Legendarium would be in the matter of the Elves and the general mythology and legends of the beings. But even then is sources are overwhelmingly Germanic, and the possible Celtic influence I see may just be the Germanic equivalent of the Celtic.

As for places like Gondor, they are not Southern Europeans. They are Gondorian. And the Gondor, like the other Western races, are based on the Germanic peoples.

Regards,
The Papist.

[Daos]

Lol, looks just like distorted map of Europe. In this case, Eriador is France, Rivendell is Netherlands, and Gondor is northern Italy (allusions to Roman Empire)? In this case, Mordor is somewhere in Hungary :lightbul:. And Eastern Europe is Rhûn, not that bad after all - at least we aren't orcs or smth worse :p.

Actually, that's Transylvania... ;)

[SuuT]

Of course, I think about a Reich, not a state :)

Hmmm... I would be interested in hearing how one could have a Hitlerian Reich without first having a Machiavellian state.


However, no matter what, the organizational structure has the purpose of protection, there is no alternative, we just must decide what to protect.

The borders and boudaries of reality have to be recognised in order for a workable plan of protection to be inacted - no matter who and what that "it" is that needs it. So, as I said, Britain (and Germany) certainly have bigger problems than Poles who enter temporariliy as students; or, create little sub-cultures within the context of a host nation if they do, indeed, stay. Just look at Jarl, for example: He's obviously not clammering to allow his ethnicity (meta, or otherwise) to be changed, and although I cannot speak for him, I'm fairly certain that he is more comfortable around Slavs in general, and Poles in particular.

Are Poles organising a vast array of criminal enterprise in Britain? Germany? Are there roaving hoards of gangsta Poles raping and vandalising:D:confused:? Are they stealing intellectual and labour opportunities that would otherwise go to the born citezenry:confused:?...What then is in danger?


It is basically dead.

From Poles? :confused2:


I am well aware of this. I do not blame them for our mess, as I said, most emigrants are just being opportunistic.

Well, I for one think that 'they' are at least as much to blame for not first creating more opportunities for themselves in their own respective countries and, instead, are parasitical upon the effectual creativity of others. Alas, on the macro-economic scale, some nations must be poor for the machine to grind on...



I simply do not see what there is to unite,

Perhaps "unite" is too strong a word... "truce" under the present circumstances? :D The perceived dangers of each country have to be prioritised; and I think too much attention on immigrants that pose only the most minimal threat to the cultural, spiritual, ethnic and Racial composition of a country is misdirected, by definition.


...
Why not unite with China? (which I wouldn't exclude, this is not supposed to be sarcastic)

You tell me.

[Pallantides]

Rivendell is Netherlands

Rivendell seem to be located in Trøndelag, you can clearly see from the underlining european map that it's located in Norway.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1214/middleearth.jpg

[Jäger]

Hmmm... I would be interested in hearing how one could have a Hitlerian Reich without first having a Machiavellian state.
Well, this is not possible.


So, as I said, Britain (and Germany) certainly have bigger problems than Poles who enter temporariliy as students; or, create little sub-cultures within the context of a host nation if they do, indeed, stay.
In essence, our plan must be feasible in our current environment, and our goal is Germany. The relation with others has always to stay in perspective to our group.
If there is an opportunity to use Polacks to our advantage, we shall take it. The same goes for Nigerians, Chinese, or Jews.
A truce is in this regard is certainly conceivable.
Right now, I simply don't see it. Before anything in this regard can be decided, we need more information, so to say.
I simply refrain from agreeing with you, while I do not necessarily disagree.


From Poles? :confused2:
No, yet, I don't get much by being friendly to the worms who eat my corpse.


Well, I for one think that 'they' are at least as much to blame for not first creating more opportunities for themselves in their own respective countries and, instead, are parasitical upon the effectual creativity of others.
Blame, as a form of having guilt, means you could do otherwise, yet, those Polacks cannot create such opportunities, thus I can't blame them for not doing so.


The perceived dangers of each country have to be prioritised; and I think too much attention on immigrants that pose only the most minimal threat to the cultural, spiritual, ethnic and Racial composition of a country is misdirected, by definition.
Well, be assured that just through the mentioning of a problem, it doesn't mean this has priority or even gets most of our efforts. :)


You tell me.
If the opportunity presents itself, of course. China has the best tools and chance of success for destroying the dollar for once.

[SuuT]

...If there is an opportunity to use Polacks to our advantage, we shall take it. The same goes for Nigerians, Chinese, or Jews.
...

This illustrates, imo, the unworkable aspect of your aims: To you, an immigrant is an immigrant is an immigrant. And whilst technically true, it only increases the odds of the immigrants that are most 'like' you will band with the peoples with whom they have less in common simply because they are faced with no other choice. It happens every time.

[Jäger]

This illustrates, imo, the unworkable aspect of your aims: To you, an immigrant is an immigrant is an immigrant. And whilst technically true, it only increases the odds of the immigrants that are most 'like' you will band with the peoples with whom they have less in common simply because they are faced with no other choice. It happens every time.
Yes, that is the very way of life. :)
I do not see a problem here, if our opponents are mere incoherent individualists with a semi-motivated outlook to protect their leisure.