Are today's Cypriots the best proxy for the pre-Middle Ages Sicilians and pre-Arab Levant?

[Sikeliot]

If not for Normans in Sicily and Arabs in the Levant, how much genetic difference would exist between them? Are today's Cypriots the best representation of the "original" Levant and the "original" (pre-Middle Ages) genetic makeup of Sicily and southern Italy?

I ask because if you look at a PCA plot, you can see that there is a gradient. Here is a new plot Doug McDonald used.. notice that the Sicilians and Jews are close by, and Cypriots are between them and Palestinians.

For some odd reason the Druze overlap with the Sicilians and Cypriots.. not sure why they're not near the Palestinians.

But it makes sense, because if you assume that the two populations were once genetically closer, the difference today can be explained by that the former experienced Arabian influences from the south, and the latter experienced Northern and Western European influxes from the north, such as Normans and Lombards.

http://s8.postimg.org/bnzzis505/Plota.png

And here, you can see it.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/2011/01/MDS1600.png

[Sikeliot]

Also it makes sense since Cypriots are almost exactly between southern Italians/Sicilians and Levantines, which means that they all once were Cypriot-like and diverged in opposite directions due to receiving influences from different groups.

[Smeagol]

Sicilians were probably a bit less Northern influenced, pre-Middle Ages, I don't know if they would have been like Cypriots, but it's a possibility. I think Levantines were basically the same as they are now, and most of their Arabid influence is pre-Muslim.

[Sikeliot]

Sicilians were probably a bit less Northern influenced, pre-Middle Ages, I don't know if they would have been like Cypriots, but it's a possibility. I think Levantines were basically the same as they are now, and most of their Arabid influence is pre-Muslim.

So you think then that Sicilians might have been what Cypriots are today, but that Levantines would never have been an overlapping cluster.

What I notice is that on PCA plots some southern Italians and Sicilians today are almost Cypriot-like, but that there is some small amount of North Euro pulling them away. Some are obviously northern shifted and not as close to the Cypriot cluster, though. The question is was this admixture always there, or is it from the Middle Ages?

As for Levantines, there are disagreements as to how much Arab ancestry they actually have.

[Insuperable]

Basically people who belonged to invaders who genetically downgraded WHG/EEF mixes.

[Smeagol]

So you think then that Sicilians might have been what Cypriots are today, but that Levantines would never have been an overlapping cluster.

Yes, basically that's what I think.


What I notice is that on PCA plots some southern Italians and Sicilians today are almost Cypriot-like, but that there is some small amount of North Euro pulling them away. Some are obviously northern shifted and not as close to the Cypriot cluster, though. The question is was this admixture always there, or is it from the Middle Ages?

I guess from the Middle Ages for the most part.

[Sikeliot]

In some ways I think you could model most of Europe's genetics, or reconstruct them rather, if you mixed different proportions of Cypriot, Georgian, North Russian, Basque, and Swedish.

[Insuperable]

In some ways I think you could model most of Europe's genetics, or reconstruct them rather, if you mixed different proportions of Cypriot, Georgian, North Russian, Basque, and Swedish.

Those without Cypriot like component would be Scandinavians, North Russian, Basque, Finss, Balts, Brits and many other northern and northcentral Europeans, basically all uber people of Europe.

[wvwvw]

For some odd reason the Druze overlap with the Sicilians and Cypriots.. not sure why they're not near the Palestinians.

a Lebanese guy's results:

http://z3.ifrm.com/67/29/0/p458062/Full_20120905082752BGA3.png

[wvwvw]

The Druze people reside primarily in Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Israel.[8][9] The Institute of Druze Studies estimates that forty to fifty percent of Druze live in Syria, thirty to forty percent in Lebanon, six to seven percent in Israel, and one or two percent in Jordan.

The number of Druze people worldwide exceeds one million, with the vast majority residing in the Levant or East Mediterranean.[12]

It was during the period of Crusader rule in Syria (1099–1291) that the Druze first emerged into the full light of history in the Gharb region of the Chouf Mountains. As powerful warriors serving the Muslim rulers of Damascus against the Crusades, the Druze were given the task of keeping watch over the crusaders in the seaport of Beirut, with the aim of preventing them from making any encroachments inland.

In Syria, most Druze live in the Jebel al-Druze, a rugged and mountainous region in the southwest of the country, which is more than 90 percent Druze inhabited; some 120 villages are exclusively so.

The Druze community played an important role in the formation of the modern state of Lebanon, and even though they are a minority they play an important role in the Lebanese political scene.

The Druze form a religious minority in Israel of more than 100,000, mostly residing in the north of the country.

[wvwvw]

Levantines or Franco-Levantines: are Latin Christians who lived under the Ottoman Empire. The term is also applied to their descendants living in modern Turkey and the Middle East.

Characteristics
Levantines were mostly of Italian (especially Venetian and Genoese), French, or other Euro-Mediterranean origin and have been living in Constantinople/Istanbul, Smyrna/Izmir and other parts of Anatolia (in present-day Turkey) and the eastern Mediterranean coast since the middle Byzantine or the Ottoman era.

The majority of them are either descendants of traders from the maritime republics of the Mediterranean (such as Venice, Genoa and Ragusa) or of European inhabitants of the Crusader states (especially the French Levantines in Lebanon, Israel and Turkey).

In Turkey
Levantines continue to live in Istanbul (mostly in the districts of Galata, Beyoğlu and Nişantaşı), İzmir (mostly in the districts of Karşıyaka, Bornova and Buca), and the lesser port city Mersin where they had been influential for creating and reviving a tradition of opera.[1] Famous people of the present-day Levantine community in Turkey include Maria Rita Epik, Franco-Levantine Caroline Giraud Koç and Italo-Levantine Giovanni Scognamillo.

Most of Turkey's small Roman Catholic community are Levantines.

In the Levant
When the United Kingdom took over the southern portion of Ottoman Syria in the aftermath of the First World War, some of the new rulers adapted the term "Levantine" pejoratively to refer to inhabitants of mixed Arab and European descent and to Europeans (usually French, Italian or Greek) who had assimilated and adopted local dress and customs. Today, many of Lebanon's Roman Catholics are of at least partial French descent.

[Kamal900]

Well, Arabians are no strangers in the Levant since that in Ancient times, they have been living in close quarters with the Aramaeans in southern and eastern Syria, Jordan and Southern Palestine. Arabian admixture is more predominately found in Muslims(Lebanese, Palestinians, Syrians and Jordanians) since that they have the highest J1e or J1-c3 than other religious communities. Indeed that in the PCA plot charts, Palestinians cluster between Druze and Northern Arabians due to admixture with the Arabians in pre-islamic and islamic times. Christians do have Arabian admixture as well, but not as much as the muslim ones though, and yes region does play a role in phenotypes as well.