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Anglojew
05-07-2014, 06:11 AM
http://jta-live.alley.ws/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/peres1-350x280.jpg

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/344/3/f/israeli_soldier_by_tanya_n-d5nn2tw.jpg

http://www.kawther.info/wpr/wp-content/uploads/page11-5.jpg?e40921[/

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Flickr_-_Israel_Defense_Forces_-_Ethiopian-Israeli_Soldier_at_the_Western_Wall.jpg

http://www.normweiss.com/images/ethiopian_jews_israel/Scan49.jpg

http://blog.standforisrael.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Yael-Ethiopia-Aliyah-1024x768.jpg


http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1276/israelisoldierwh0.jpg

http://www.tadias.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/israel.jpg

http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.472932.1351497044!/image/815325727.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_640/815325727.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/headwideopen/AnIsraelisoldierarrestsanIsraeliprotester.jpg

http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.400286.1323310546!/image/4121678781.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_640/4121678781.jpg

http://commentisfreewatch.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/final1.jpg

http://www.jewishagency.org/sites/default/files/styles/blog_slider/public/Ethiopian%20soldier-1.jpg?itok=NtYfhTMt

http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/v2_article_large/public/2013/06/04/ethiopian-immigrant-israel.jpg

zhaoyun
05-07-2014, 06:31 AM
Apartheid in Israel is primarily along cultural lines between Jews and Arabs, not racial. Both groups span the entire racial spectrum. Nice try. You are a master propagandist.

Anglojew
05-07-2014, 06:46 AM
Apartheid in Israel is primarily along cultural lines between Jews and Arabs, not racial. Both groups span the entire racial spectrum. Nice try. You are a master propagandist.

Cultural lol

Half of Israeli Jews came from Arab countries.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9Keq-gYd8nQ/US_F7ijAr4I/AAAAAAAAWiQ/Ur2qvN6vwus/s1600/mishleb.jpg

http://eclectecon.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54ecbb69a8833014e5f6bc0ea970c-pi

http://eclectecon.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54ecbb69a8833014e5f6bc1af970c-pi

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5D7cTeOa8Bo/UwoArrnr0CI/AAAAAAAAcdU/84L1gd7Ga6A/s1600/krenawi.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CxcWQ9w4jis/TwWEUC4n9EI/AAAAAAAAGAE/0cwWxU-4QAQ/s1600/ashraf+brik.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CyKpoAslIio/TZbYp1561bI/AAAAAAAABDw/pUI_Oie1scw/s1600/Apartheid_ad.png

zhaoyun
05-07-2014, 06:54 AM
Cultural lol

Half of Israeli Jews came from Arab countries.

]

I am very familiar with the demographic breakdown of Israeli society. Culture has many factors. Though they are from Arab countries, they are now Israeli Jews, and obviously a very different/opposing identity than the Israeli Arabs/Palestinians. BTW, many of the most anti-Arab Israelis are Sephardic Jews from Arab countries so your examples are rather meaningless.

Anglojew
05-07-2014, 06:57 AM
I am very familiar with the demographic breakdown of Israeli society. Culture has many factors. Though they are from Arab countries, they are now Israeli Jews, and obviously a very different/opposing identity than the Israeli Arabs/Palestinians. BTW, many of the most anti-Arab Israelis are Sephardic Jews from Arab countries so your examples are rather meaningless.

So let me get your contention straight. Israel isn't a racist society, it's anti-Arab, and many of the anti-Arabs are Arab Jews but my examples of Arabs in important positions in society don't disprove the aparthied- which isn't racist- but culturally anti-Arab by Jews who are culturally Arab?

Is that about right? Makes sense.

zhaoyun
05-07-2014, 07:05 AM
So let me get your contention straight. Israel isn't a racist society, it's anti-Arab, and many of the anti-Arabs are Arab Jews but my examples of Arabs in important positions in society don't disprove the aparthied- which isn't racist- but culturally anti-Arab by Jews who are culturally Arab?

Is that about right? Makes sense.


No. My main position is that apartheid in Israel is not based on phenotypical racial lines, but rather on ethnic/cultural/religious faultlines between Israeli Jews and Arabs. Yes, there are a few Arabs in high positions in Israeli society (Druze and Bedouins are not a good example as they are small minorities who have been co-opted into the Israeli state), but there is undeniably heavy institutionalized discrimination against Arabs in Israeli society. Whether you feel it is justified or not, that's your position, but to deny it exists at all, is a denial of reality. Again, you're a master propagandist.

Anglojew
05-07-2014, 07:10 AM
No. My main position is that apartheid in Israel is not based on phenotypical racial lines, but rather on ethnic/cultural/religious faultlines between Israeli Jews and Arabs. Yes, there are a few Arabs in high positions in Israeli society (Druze and Bedouins are not a good example as they are small minorities who have been co-opted into the Israeli state), but there is undeniably heavy institutionalized discrimination against Arabs in Israeli society. Whether you feel it is justified or not, that's your position, but to deny it exists at all, is a denial of reality. Again, you're a master propagandist.

1. I don't believe Palestinians are really Arabs I believe they're Israelites like Jews.

2. There's remarkable little discrimination considering the state of war and terrorism between Jews and Arabs and Palestinians for the last 66+ years.

3. Israel is held to a higher standard than you apply to Israel's neighbours.

4. Apartheid means "was a system of racial segregation" but Jews and Palestinians are the SAME race (with different admixture but sharing 50% common ancestry).

Anglojew
05-07-2014, 07:17 AM
http://feduja.org/evite/2012/2012_IrwinGreen/images/banner.jpg

http://womennewsnetwork.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/516-ISRAEL_Arab_Jewish_teachers_learn-together-ImageSVF.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3f/Twoteachers.jpg/220px-Twoteachers.jpg

http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.320564.1287710941!/image/283096297.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_640/283096297.jpg

http://www.njjewishnews.com/njjn.com/051409/cjJewishAndArabFriends.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/43/Kids-threeboys.jpg

http://palestinechronicle.com/uploads/1255832493hagar_school_beersheva.jpg

http://blog.godreports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/israeli-palestinian-boys-110c9.jpg

zhaoyun
05-07-2014, 07:25 AM
1. I don't believe Palestinians are really Arabs I believe they're Israelites like Jews.

It doesnt matter what you believe. They are two different ethnic groups and in deep conflict.


2. There's remarkable little discrimination considering the state of war and terrorism between Jews and Arabs and Palestinians for the last 66+ years.

This is not true.


3. Israel is held to a higher standard than you apply to Israel's neighbours.

No, I don't. Most Arab countries are deeply anti-Jewish because of the advent of modern Zionism and disenfranchisement of the Palestinians. Those are the root causes but I acknowledge that they are deeply anti-Jewish.


4. Apartheid means "was a system of racial segregation" but Jews and Palestinians are the SAME race (with different admixture but sharing 50% common ancestry).

You can call it Apartheid or whatever you want. It doesn't mask the reality.

Basically you are a Jewish nationalist and quite adept at propaganda, as well as a troll. This conversation is rather pointless.

I'm gonna end it on this note to reflect the credibility of your thread.

http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x443/jajone18/wtfgif.gif

Anglojew
05-07-2014, 07:30 AM
It doesnt matter what you believe. They are two different ethnic groups and in deep conflict.



This is not true.



No, I don't. Most Arab countries are deeply anti-Jewish because of the advent of modern Zionism and disenfranchisement of the Palestinians. Those are the root causes but I acknowledge that they are deeply anti-Jewish.



You can call it Apartheid or whatever you want. It doesn't mask the reality.

Basically you are a Jewish nationalist and quite adept at propaganda, as well as a troll. This conversation is rather pointless.

I'm gonna end it on this note to reflect the credibility of your thread.

http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x443/jajone18/wtfgif.gif

Muslim societies were anti-Jewish since Mohammed.


...pogroms spread through the Middle East and North Africa: Aleppo (1850, 1875), Damascus (1840, 1848, 1890), Beirut (1862, 1874), Dayr al-Qamar (1847), Jaffa (1876), Jerusalem (1847, 1870 and 1895), Cairo (1844, 1890, 1901–02), Mansura (1877), Alexandria (1870, 1882, 1901–07), Port Said (1903, 1908), and Damanhur (1871, 1873, 1877, 1891).

While antisemitism has increased in the wake of the Arab-Israeli conflict, there were pogroms against Jews prior to the foundation of Israel, including Nazi-inspired pogroms in Algeria in the 1930s, and attacks on the Jews of Iraq and Libya in the 1940s. In 1941, 180 Jews were murdered and 700 were injured in the anti-Jewish riots known as the Farhud.[16] Four hundred Jews were injured in violent demonstrations in Egypt in 1945 and Jewish property was vandalized and looted. In Libya, 130 Jews were killed and 266 injured. In December 1947, 13 Jews were killed in Damascus, including 8 children, and 26 were injured. In Aleppo, rioting resulted in dozens of Jewish casualties, damage to 150 Jewish homes, and the torching of 5 schools and 10 synagogues. In Yemen, 97 Jews were murdered and 120 injured.[14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Arab_world#Nineteenth_century

The Israelite Palestinians have had their identity usurped by foreign corrupt clans;

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?114544-How-Foreign-Arabian-Clans-Rule-Over-Islamised-Palestinians-Of-Israelite-Origin

EyeOfTheTiger
05-07-2014, 02:37 PM
I am very familiar with the demographic breakdown of Israeli society. Culture has many factors. Though they are from Arab countries, they are now Israeli Jews, and obviously a very different/opposing identity than the Israeli Arabs/Palestinians. BTW, many of the most anti-Arab Israelis are Sephardic Jews from Arab countries so your examples are rather meaningless.
the people in the pictures he posted are israeli arabs, not israeli arab jews.

Kalimtari
05-07-2014, 02:50 PM
this vid is interesting:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MynfsmzXoE0

it shows that majority of people are not haters and that gives me a bit more hope in humanity

machine_head
05-08-2014, 06:04 AM
the people in the pictures he posted are israeli arabs, not israeli arab jews.

Find a screen shot that exposes your illiteracy and butt pain better. I wonder what would you do if you didnt memorize the word Turkified to explain the history which you know nothing about. Thats what morons like you do. Internet is full of brain dead troll retards like you that hangs around barking Turkified this, that. How does it feel like having a no brain and not being able to understand what people post? After getting destroyed by facts and being in denial, all you have to offer is the same old Turkified garbage. Only a maniac troll will repeat the same word after tons of posts about what you claim is wrong. Either you are retarded or not able to read. That screen shot is the sign of my ownage. Jew is not an ethnicity either. Now stick the Turkified garbage deep in your Jew ass and never take it out.

Drawing-slim
05-08-2014, 06:15 AM
Seriously anglojew what are you trying to say here?? That blacks are adored in Israel?!

Fear Fiain
05-08-2014, 06:21 AM
Muslim societies were anti-Jewish since Mohammed.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Arab_world#Nineteenth_century

ok. supposing you're right: what about Christian Palestinians?


The Israelite Palestinians have had their identity usurped by foreign corrupt clans;

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?114544-How-Foreign-Arabian-Clans-Rule-Over-Islamised-Palestinians-Of-Israelite-Origin
ok. supposing you're right: what about Christian Palestinians?

basically I see islam as an extension of talmudic judaism, which was the first Christian heresy, rejecting the Christ, the Messiah, when he came, with over 500 eyewitnesses to his death and resurrection.
I care about my christian brothers and sisters in the Arab world more than any heretical Pharisee or Islamist heretic (arianism+ nestorianism = islam)

Anglojew
05-08-2014, 06:27 AM
Seriously anglojew what are you trying to say here?? That blacks are adored in Israel?!

I like Ethiopians.

That's all.

Anglojew
05-08-2014, 06:36 AM
ok. supposing you're right: what about Christian Palestinians?

ok. supposing you're right: what about Christian Palestinians?

basically I see islam as an extension of talmudic judaism, which was the first Christian heresy, rejecting the Christ, the Messiah, when he came, with over 500 eyewitnesses to his death and resurrection.
I care about my christian brothers and sisters in the Arab world more than any heretical Pharisee or Islamist heretic (arianism+ nestorianism = islam)

All discrimination by Jews against Palestinians or by Palestinians against Jews must cease.

Christian Israelis are now becoming Zionists. There's even a new political party B’nei Brit Hahadasha (Sons of the New Testament);

http://www.timesofisrael.com/new-christian-arab-party-calls-for-idf-enlistment/

Jesus didn't fulfill of the requirements of a Messiah I'm sorry.

Pharisees predated the Talmud.

gültekin
05-08-2014, 06:36 AM
funny israelis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DCJFfIHkno

Anglojew
05-08-2014, 06:39 AM
funny israelis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DCJFfIHkno

Ultra-Orthodox are weirdos.

Drawing-slim
05-08-2014, 07:10 AM
I like Ethiopians.

That's all.

Me too. They seem very reasonable people.

Farah
05-08-2014, 07:28 AM
So much superficial propaganda. Showing a bunch of smiling Ethiopians and Arabs, this must mean Israel is a multicultural paradise. I feel a sense of betrayal by these Ethiopians and Arabs because they are working with a system that inherently & institutionally doesn't view them as equals.

Anglojew just one simple question ... why don't you live in Israel if it is so fair and democratic as you see it to be? Why are the staunchest Zionists always the ones who live outside of Israel.

Anglojew
05-08-2014, 07:32 AM
So much superficial propaganda. Showing a bunch of smiling Ethiopians and Arabs, this must mean Israel is a multicultural paradise. I feel a sense of betrayal by these Ethiopians and Arabs because they are working with a system that inherently & institutionally doesn't view them as equals.

Anglojew just one simple question ... why don't you live in Israel if it is so fair and democratic as you see it to be? Why are the staunchest Zionists always the ones who live outside of Israel.

Until Islam is reformed, and there's Palestinians embrace their Israelite heritage and unite with Jews, there's no point.

StonyArabia
05-08-2014, 07:40 AM
So much superficial propaganda. Showing a bunch of smiling Ethiopians and Arabs, this must mean Israel is a multicultural paradise. I feel a sense of betrayal by these Ethiopians and Arabs because they are working with a system that inherently & institutionally doesn't view them as equals.

Anglojew just one simple question ... why don't you live in Israel if it is so fair and democratic as you see it to be? Why are the staunchest Zionists always the ones who live outside of Israel.

I read that Bedouins and Druze were pro-Israel and even welcomed the Jewish state, because they were treated better than by the Palestinians. Bedouins were discriminated against due to their culture and this is the same is true of the Druze. Now I don't know if this is true, but I do know Bedouins are often marginalized and discriminated in most countries apart from Jordan where they are it's elite or Iraq where they form a powerful majority. They might be seen as traitors but I honestly don't think it's Black and White. If the Bedouins were not discriminated and marginalized they probably would never had joined this, also they get along well with the European derived Ashkenazim not so much with the Mizrahim. Well I do agree with what your saying to a degree don't get me wrong.

Anglojew
05-09-2014, 01:06 AM
I read that Bedouins and Druze were pro-Israel and even welcomed the Jewish state, because they were treated better than by the Palestinians. Bedouins were discriminated against due to their culture and this is the same is true of the Druze. Now I don't know if this is true, but I do know Bedouins are often marginalized and discriminated in most countries apart from Jordan where they are it's elite or Iraq where they form a powerful majority. They might be seen as traitors but I honestly don't think it's Black and White. If the Bedouins were not discriminated and marginalized they probably would never had joined this, also they get along well with the European derived Ashkenazim not so much with the Mizrahim. Well I do agree with what your saying to a degree don't get me wrong.

Yes, this is what leftists don't understand.

It's due to Jews from Arab and Muslim countries being persecuted for 1000s of years. These Jews really tend to not like Arabs/Muslims more than Ashkenazim (with the exception of the Ultra Orthodox who don't like anyone) who are often liberal peacenik types.

StonyArabia
05-09-2014, 01:37 AM
Yes, this is what leftists don't understand.

It's due to Jews from Arab and Muslim countries being persecuted for 1000s of years. These Jews really tend to not like Arabs/Muslims more than Ashkenazim (with the exception of the Ultra Orthodox who don't like anyone) who are often liberal peacenik types.

In regards to the Mizrahim or Jews from Arab and Muslim countries, it has to due with the more recent when most of them were expelled in 1948 mostly by their own governments. Although there was some discrimination against them from the Muslim/Arab rulers, for the most part they were left alone, this not mention that many Sephardim were welcomed by the Ottoman empire. As well Iraq was center for Sephardic Judaism for many years under Muslim rule, some of them even rose to high ranks, but at times the Muslim/Arab rulers were discriminatory which depended on the circumstance on the period. That said they along with Muslim, Christian, and Jews and other Arabs have often looked down and often discriminated against the Bedouins, which no wonder the Bedouins don't get along with them. The Bedouins are not really religious people and practice a very liberal form of Sunni Islam, so religious element is not really the cause, but the treatment.

randomguy1235
05-09-2014, 02:23 AM
Look at all those foreigners in Palestine...How depressing.

StonyArabia
05-09-2014, 02:28 AM
Look at all those foreigners in Palestine...How depressing.

I would not call the Bedouins and Druze foreigners though their genetics fit their geographical locations.

randomguy1235
05-09-2014, 02:30 AM
I would not call the Bedouins and Druze foreigners though their genetics fit their geographical locations.

I suppose so. I wasn't really referring to them though.

StonyArabia
05-09-2014, 02:38 AM
I suppose so. I wasn't really referring to them though.

Yes I thought you included all the people, which would incorrect statement from historical and genetic point of view.

Anglojew
05-09-2014, 03:02 AM
In regards to the Mizrahim or Jews from Arab and Muslim countries, it has to due with the more recent when most of them were expelled in 1948 mostly by their own governments. Although there was some discrimination against them from the Muslim/Arab rulers, for the most part they were left alone, this not mention that many Sephardim were welcomed by the Ottoman empire. As well Iraq was center for Sephardic Judaism for many years under Muslim rule, some of them even rose to high ranks, but at times the Muslim/Arab rulers were discriminatory which depended on the circumstance on the period. That said they along with Muslim, Christian, and Jews and other Arabs have often looked down and often discriminated against the Bedouins, which no wonder the Bedouins don't get along with them. The Bedouins are not really religious people and practice a very liberal form of Sunni Islam, so religious element is not really the cause, but the treatment.

That's why we should unite.

Anglojew
05-09-2014, 03:04 AM
Look at all those foreigners in Palestine...How depressing.

They're adopted Israelites. There are black Palis anyway.

Pan-Israelism.

StonyArabia
05-09-2014, 03:04 AM
That's why we should unite.

One day when people finally realize they are all brothers in Abraham it slowly happening but it will happen.

Anglojew
05-09-2014, 03:05 AM
I would not call the Bedouins and Druze foreigners though their genetics fit their geographical locations.

Druze aren't foreigners (I know they may be of Persian admixture but Samaritans are part Assyrian anyway). I don't consider Bedouins foreigners either. There's even Jewish Bedouin so they've been there (or passing through there) a long time.

Anglojew
05-09-2014, 03:07 AM
One day when people finally realize they are all brothers in Abraham it slowly happening but it will happen.

That's true too. Arabs and Jews are all children of Abraham but Pan-Israelism is a slightly narrower benchmark for Mandeans, Jews, Palestinians, Samaritans and some others (Judean descended Druze, Christian Arabs, Sicilians etc).

StonyArabia
05-09-2014, 03:18 AM
Druze aren't foreigners. I don't consider Bedouins foreigners either. There's even Jewish Bedouin so they've been there (or passing through there) a long time.

That's indeed true. Bedouins usually followed Judaism or Islam. They have been in the region for long time. Recently some have converted to Christianity, though often the Arabian way of life spiritual and cultural influences them and might even be responsible for way they often adhere to very liberal forms of Sunni Islam which is quite likely the result. Many Bedouins see that there has been Turkification, and Persianization of Islam which altered it's real meaning and identity. Due to many Bedouins early contact with Judaism and it mostly came through peaceful means, they often sympathize with it more so than Christianity, do feel that the Jews are their cousins, however they were are often marginalized, discriminated or forced to assimilate, they the general population never leave us alone. This has started to create problems in the community as result which has been negatively effecting us.

Anglojew
05-09-2014, 03:25 AM
That's indeed true. Bedouins usually followed Judaism or Islam. They have been in the region for long time. Recently some have converted to Christianity, though often the Arabian way of life spiritual and cultural influences them and might even be responsible for way they often adhere to very liberal forms of Sunni Islam which is quite likely the result. Many Bedouins see that there has been Turkification, and Persianization of Islam which altered it's real meaning and identity. Due to many Bedouins early contact with Judaism and it mostly came through peaceful means, they often sympathize with it more so than Christianity, do feel that the Jews are their cousins, however they were are often marginalized, discriminated or forced to assimilate, they the general population never leave us alone. This has started to create problems in the community as result which has been negatively effecting us.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?125117-Pan-Israelism-Israelites-of-the-World-Unite

EyeOfTheTiger
05-09-2014, 11:04 AM
Find a screen shot that exposes your illiteracy and butt pain better. I wonder what would you do if you didnt memorize the word Turkified to explain the history which you know nothing about. Thats what morons like you do. Internet is full of brain dead troll retards like you that hangs around barking Turkified this, that. How does it feel like having a no brain and not being able to understand what people post? After getting destroyed by facts and being in denial, all you have to offer is the same old Turkified garbage. Only a maniac troll will repeat the same word after tons of posts about what you claim is wrong. Either you are retarded or not able to read. That screen shot is the sign of my ownage. Jew is not an ethnicity either. Now stick the Turkified garbage deep in your Jew ass and never take it out.

Hi oghuz khan, you got banned for a reason. And youre not palestinian, youre a turkified azeri. Keep denying the truth and trolling yourself.

Myth
05-13-2014, 01:44 AM
So when did this Palestinian identity thing become a ethnic group, is it mentioned anywhere in the bible?, please don't tell me British mandate of Palestine either. There's no apartheid in Israel , Arabs who accepted Israeli citizenship as treated as such and have full political rights. Also there are no Arab Jews, they prefer the term mizrahi

Since Palestinian is a identity some Arabs choose to identify with, some Arabs have Israelite roots and became Muslim or Christian while others are not of our people.

Anglojew
05-13-2014, 02:11 AM
So when did this Palestinian identity thing become a ethnic group, is it mentioned anywhere in the bible?, please don't tell me British mandate of Palestine either. There's no apartheid in Israel , Arabs who accepted Israeli citizenship as treated as such and have full political rights. Also there are no Arab Jews, they prefer the term mizrahi

Since Palestinian is a identity some Arabs choose to identify with, some Arabs have Israelite roots and became Muslim or Christian while others are not of our people.

The majority of Palestinians are no more "Arab" than Americans are "English."

They are Islamised and Arabised Jews, Samaritans etc;

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?122541-Palestinians-and-Samaritans-are-genetic-brothers

Ruled over by foreign clans;
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?114544-How-Foreign-Arabian-Clans-Rule-Over-Islamised-Palestinians-Of-Israelite-Origin

Palestinians like Rashid Khalidi are so clearly Jewish it's amusing they pretend to be Arabs;

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/archive/2008/11/1_123125_2073765_2180614_2203618_081103_fw_khalidi tn.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg

http://www.antiauthoritarian.net/NLN/photo-gallery/2009_01_23_nlg/images/dsc_1409.jpg