How could an all-good God possibly sent people to Hell?

[wvwvw]

From a Christian perspective :D

Hell is a side effect of our free choice. God creates as an act of love. He gives us free will as an act of love because he desires our free choice to love him. Without free will there can be no freely-given love. Without the possibility of rejecting God, the gift of free will would be a sham.

God created the Lucifer, just as he created the other archangels. Lucifer created Satan by his free choice to reject God. God allowed Lucifer to reject him because he gave him and humans free will. But God also knew that as terrible as the evil wreaked by Satan was, God could still bring good from it. The power of Satan is, nonetheless, not infinite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature.

A brief video explanation on Hell by Robert Barron:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8zhnooySk4

Hell would be the final No to God's love, uttered from the depth of one's soul. That's hell.

"Hell is a spiritual condition we create by being away from God until we choose to return to God. Hell is a spiritual condition that is totally devoid of love." (Sandra Rogers)

"Hell is the pain, anguish, hurt and anger that you have caused others or who suffered as a result of your actions/words to others. Hell is what you have created for yourself within your soul by turning your back on unconditional love, compassion and peace." (Tina)

"Those who have stunted their spiritual growth through an undeveloped or misdirected lifestyle, have led a purely self-centered life or have hurt other people, their spiritual environment will reflect something of these realities. A self-centered life on Earth places one in an area of the spirit world with like-minded people who have yet to learn the value of unselfishness for the advancement of the soul." (Nora Spurgin)

"There is no condemnation in hell, only the outworking of our own misjudgments, mistakes, misalignments, or misappropriations." (P.M.H. Atwater)

"Those with too many negative thought patterns might flee the light of God after death because they are too ashamed or too afraid to have their inner thoughts and negative natures revealed to everyone." (Dr. George Ritchie)

"After his death, Jesus descended into the lower afterlife regions to 'unlock' the gates of hell. But souls still remaining there - for them - the gates are locked from the inside. Nevertheless, NDE evidence reveals Jesus continues to rescue souls from hell during a near-death experience." (Kevin Williams)

"God does not condemn anyone to hell and there is no eternal damnation. We have the ability to condemn ourselves to the hell we create within ourselves." (Kevin Williams)

"The God of love suffers for those in darkness, ignorance and misery." (Nora Spurgin)

While Benedict was in hell, he called out to the light and the light opened up and formed a tunnel that insulated him from all that fear and pain. (Mellen-Thomas Benedict)

"The way out of these hellish realms is to have a willingness to see the light and seek love for others and God." (Angie Fenimore)

To escape the darkness, you must cry out to God. Then the light will appear. (Rev. Howard Storm)

"Souls in the hellish realms do not have the same powers to progress and achieve joy that others with more light in the higher afterlife realms have. Their progress is limited - a result of divine justice. However, these souls can choose to grow if they wish." (RaNelle Wallace)

"At this point, I could feel this group of beings eliminate or pull from me the negative energy of my life in the physical world and fill me with love beyond what I can describe." (Sherry Gideon)

"After death, if a soul has been too bad, they go to a realm of lower vibrations where their kind of thoughts can live. If they entered heaven, they would be annihilated by the Master-Vibration of God. This is because souls gravitate into groups according to the rate of their soul's vibrations. If the percent of discord in a soul is small, it can be eliminated by God; then the remaining good can live on in heaven. However, if the percentage of bad were too high, this couldn't be done, and the person would have to gravitate to a lower level and live with people of his own kind. Birds of a feather, flock together."(Arthur Yensen)

"Since I had lived such a totally self-serving existence, I was in a hellish state of indescribable agony and sorrow. I was in shear agony. I still remember being on my knees while this blinding light broke and crushed my false-ego. This breaking process was extremely painful." (Daniel Rosenblit)

[wvwvw]

Fr. Robert Barron on Whether Hell is Crowded or Empty


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmsa0sg4Od4

[Teyrn]

How could a just God not create Hell? People focus too much on His love at the expense of His justice. For example: what good is the judge in a [human] court who never sentences people to jail and doesn't distinguish between the people who show remorse and the people who remain remorseful? Everyone goes free, all crimes, even murder, etc., forgiven!

:picard1:

[Linebacker]

I never sent anyone to hell stop with your lies

[wvwvw]

How could a just God not create Hell? People focus too much on His love at the expense of His justice. For example: what good is the judge in a [human] court who never sentences people to jail and doesn't distinguish between the people who show remorse and the people who remain remorseful? Everyone goes free, all crimes, even murder, etc., forgiven!

:picard1:
Spending an *eternity* in hell is not very just nor does it make sense. It is disproportionate to the crime. How could wrongs in this finite life merit an eternal punishment?

God does not “send” people to hell. Rather, people freely choose to reject God’s gift of salvation. God has given people freedom of will, which means some may be “always resisting the Holy Spirit” (Acts 7:51)

Contrary to popular belief, hell is not a physical place of unending physical fire. Rather, hell is described in the bible metaphorically as a place of both darkness and flames. Clearly both of these images can’t be true or they would cancel each other out (flames would light up the darkness). These images were used to clarify the reality and seriousness of hell. Flames were typically used in the Old Testament to indicate judgment and darkness indicated separation and loss.

Thus, rather than unending torture, at the root of hell is a relational separation from God characterized by utter agony and despair. To be in hell is to be excluded from the very source of life, goodness, and hopeGod himself.

[Teyrn]

Spending an *eternity* in hell is not very just nor does it make sense.

It doesn't make sense to you- a human.

Are you God? Am I? Can anyone human judge what an the Omnipotent considers to be right and wrong?

[wvwvw]

How could a just God not create Hell? People focus too much on His love at the expense of His justice. For example: what good is the judge in a [human] court who never sentences people to jail and doesn't distinguish between the people who show remorse and the people who remain remorseful? Everyone goes free, all crimes, even murder, etc., forgiven!

:picard1:

Yes but God has chosen to forget all our sins because of Jesus.

Satan was judged at the cross. This is a vast subject contained within the short statement "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself." (Col. 1:19-20, John 12:31) "For it pleased the Father that in Christ all the fullness should dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross." (Col. 1:19-20)

The judgment of all human sin on the cross makes it possible for all men everywhere to be freely forgiven and reconciled to God. This is the impetus for Paul's urging us in 2 Cor. 5 to plead with men everywhere that they accept God gracious good favor towards them now:

"For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again. Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Corinthians 5:14-21)

God Judges noone. Jesus the Son is the Appointed Judge of all mankind.

Jesus said " I didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it.".

Yes eventually everyone will be saved if they repent, even child killers and Hitler :p

[MarkyMark]

How could a just God not create Hell? People focus too much on His love at the expense of His justice. For example: what good is the judge in a [human] court who never sentences people to jail and doesn't distinguish between the people who show remorse and the people who remain remorseful? Everyone goes free, all crimes, even murder, etc., forgiven!

:picard1:

So when you go to court, you blame the judge for condemning you as guilty, and not yourself for making the wrong choice?

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

God is evil or sub consciously plays favorites.

[Teyrn]

hurp durp

[MarkyMark]

God is evil or sub consciously plays favorites.

Explain. How is God evil.

[RandoBloom]

God the Father forgives those who acknowledge belief in the Savior- you forgot that part: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life."

Christianity isn't a pick-and-choose religion where one can choose to ignore the parts of it that one finds objectionable; He makes that very plain.

Why did he say:
"I am ascending to MY Father AND YOUR Father and to MY God AND YOUR God."

[Dombra]

It is obvious that Satan is a henchman of god, does not punishing evil sound good to you? Having Satan as the bad guy has dumbed down Christianity while they could have had a take where Satan is the necessary badass in contrast to the loving angels under his equal Gabriels command. Evil would be within all humans

Not that I believe in any of it...

[Teyrn]

Why did he say:
"I am ascending to MY Father AND YOUR Father and to MY God AND YOUR God."

http://www.marysrosaries.com/collaboration/images/thumb/b/b2/Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-English-001.svg/520px-Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-English-001.svg.png

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Explain. How is God evil.

Theres many qoutes in the bible I will just post a few. so here

Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Clearly Moses and God approves of rape of virgins.



Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.


Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

It is clear that God doesn't give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans "property".

Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)



Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)



God Kills the Curious
And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)


Kill Brats
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)


These are qoutes from a website but I have skimmed a few and have found some in the Bible I had. I had the ABS bible version and still found some of the text of NAB versions.

Theres also the bible story of Joeb. Which is pretty sad. If you know what I am referring to

[wvwvw]

hurp durp

"Having faith IN Christ doesn't matter as much as having the faith OF Christ. It is foolish to think that Jesus will carry your cross for you because he taught people that they must take up their own cross. Having the faith of Christ means to practice unconditional love." (Kevin Williams)

"I asked the light, which I call Christ, how people from other religions get to heaven. I was shown that the group, or organization, we profess alliance to is inconsequential. What is important is how we show our love for God by the way we treat each other. This is because when we pass to the spiritual realm we will all be met by him, which substantiates the passage, 'No one comes to the Father, but by me.' The light showed me that what is important is that we love God and each other, and that it isn't what a person says, but the love in their being that is examined in the afterlife." (Sandra Rogers

The Bible and NDEs show that God is the way to heaven. God is love. Jesus manifested love in a way that perhaps relatively few people have. Again, the way to heaven is love - just as Jesus taught in Luke 10:25-28. This love is not limited to Christians or the Bible.

"We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death." - (1 John 3:14)

[wvwvw]

Biblical Evidence for Universal Salvation

God wills everyone to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-6) and no one can thwart God's will (Job 42:2). God doesn't want anyone to perish (2 Peter 3:9) and all people will see God's salvation (Luke 3:5-6). God is savior of all people (1 Timothy 4:9-10) and God saved the world through Jesus (John 3:17). Jesus came to save the world (John 12:47). Jesus tasted death for everyone (Hebrews 2:9). He is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). He took away the sins of the world (John 1:29). He justifies and gives life to all people (Romans 5:18-21). All will be made alive (1 Corinthian 15:22). He is the savior of the world (John 4:42, 1 John 4:14).

At the cross, Jesus redeemed and reconciled all sinners (Romans 5:8-10) and reconciled all things to himself (Colossians 1:19-21). God has reconciled the world to himself (2 Corinthians 5:18-19). Christ draws all people to himself (John 12:32).

God doesn't cast off anyone forever (Lamentations 3:31-33). God has mercy on all the disobedient (Romans 11:32). God helps all who fall (Psalm 145:14). God dwells with the rebellious (Psalm 68:18). Jesus finds and saves all of the lost (Luke 15:4). Jesus finds those who go astray (Matthew 18:10-14). God delights in showing mercy (Micah)

God is love (I John 4:7-8). God loves everyone (Psalm 145:9). Love keeps no record of wrongs and always protects (1 Corinthian 13:4-7). God is merciful to all (Luke 6:35-36). Love does no harm (Romans 13:10). Nothing can separate people from the love of God (Romans 8:38-39).

Jesus said to always forgive (Matthew 18:21-22). Bless your persecutors and not curse them (Romans 12:14). Don't do evil to those who are evil (Roman 12:17). Overcome evil with good (Romans 12:21).

All of God's creation will praise and honor God and Christ (Revelation 5:13). Christ is Lord of the dead and the living (Romans 14:9). God will bring unity to all things under Christ (Ephesian 1:9-10).

Jesus frees people in hell (Ephesian 4:8-10). Death and hell will be thrown into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14).

[Also]

Why did he say:
"I am ascending to MY Father AND YOUR Father and to MY God AND YOUR God."

Jesus speaks both as man and as God, because he was both man and God, and yes, the Son and the Father and the Holy Ghost are God, distinct as persons but not as God (different category). I know you object to the trinity but honestly I think this is not related to the topic.

[RandoBloom]

http://www.marysrosaries.com/collaboration/images/thumb/b/b2/Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-English-001.svg/520px-Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-English-001.svg.png

Then if the father is not the son then god is neither of that.
explain trinity.


Jesus speaks both as man and as God, because he was both man and God, and yes, the Son and the Father and the Holy Ghost are God, distinct as persons but not as God (different category). I know you object to the trinity but honestly I think this is not related to the topic.

Then why did he scream at the end calling God?
A God calls for God? Why worship a God who has a God greater than him?

[cally]

Why would you create humans just to test them? What is the purpose of that? Why would you give them the opportunity to "sin"? Does God enjoy it?

what crimes could possibly warrant a one way ticket to this "hell"? Aren't we punished for our actions enough on Earth (consequences, laws ect. ) ? Should we not have laws and prisons? Should we leave judgement for God?

[wvwvw]

Theres many qoutes in the bible I will just post a few. so here

Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)



In the Old Testament mankind was under the Law of Judgement. Every little sin caused death. The wages of sin is death. It is against the nature of God to be in the presence of sin. (he is infinitely Holy) So he allowed the wages of sin to happen. The Law was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. Christ reconciled mankind to God. Now Christians are under the Law of Christ. God put "behind his back" all our sins, God reconciled mankind to Himself.

[Also]

Then if the father is not the son then god is neither of that.
explain trinity.

It's a difference of category, this is not intuitive but it is not contradictory.
Someone who sees me from the front and someone who sees my from behind see different things, but yet they see the same thing, both things I said are true when put into the right semantic context. The difference is when I say they see different things I refer to the image seen, when I say they see the same thing I refer to the object seen, so there is a difference of category where 'image' and 'object' are distinct categories. Or if there is an ABC triangle and I see the A side and you see the B side, I'll be right in saying we saw distinct things and I'll be right in saying we saw the same thing. Because we saw the same triangle, however we saw different sides. If I touch with my finger a face of a cube and you go and touch the opposite face, did we touch the same thing? Depends on the category you are considering, tha faces are truly distinct but we truly touched the same object.

In pagan greek tales there is a three-headed dog name Cerberus who keeps the gates of Hades. Now, I think none of us here believe in Cerberus but no one listen to this description of a (singular) dog with three heads (plural) and think to himself "How can that be?". Cerberus is a single dog, but it possesses three distinct (canine) minds.

Now, none of these analogies are perfect, after all there is nothing like God, but they help us understand how the concept of a plurality of persons into a single God can even make sense.

And please notice, there is a difference between having reasons to believe X, and being able to explain the nature of X. For instance, scientists may find themselves with reasons to believe that a certain natural phenomena occurs, even if they have no idea how this phenomena occurs and what is the precise nature of it. Nobel laureate physicist Richard Feynman once said: "On the other hand, I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics" because the nature of it was just beyond his mental grasp, but yet he had reasons to believe in it, he didn't lack belief in quantum mechanics and he wasn't being irrational by doing so.

In an analogous way, I don't think anyone exhaustively understands the trinity. We believed in it because we have reasons to and because it is an intrinsic part of our Christian tradition and wheter some people like it or not it is part of original Christianity that Jesus is the Son of God and is himself divine.



Then why did he scream at the end calling God?
A God calls for God? Why worship a God who has a God greater than him?

I remembered answering this exact same question to you before on another thread. Jesus was quoting the first verse from Psalm 22 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalms+22&version=RSVCE) which prophecizes about his crucifixion. The thing is that the Bible has many types of genre literature and cross-references, it does not follow a single genre that is both literal and descriptive all the time, for that a superficial reading sometimes won't do it. If you read the psalm and the description of Jesus' crucifixion you'll see there is a number of parallels and the relation. Jesus was not in despair as some people seem to think and he was prepared for his crucifixion which can be seen by reading the events before the crucifixion took place and during it.

[Also]

God is evil or sub consciously plays favorites.

In atheism there is no basis for objective morality anyway. What is evil to you is simply a result of being socialy and/or biologicaly conditioned and could be wholy different under different conditions. You think certain actions are evil in the same way I find mozzarella tasty, subjectively.

[LightHouse89]

muslims do not understand Christian riddles.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

muslims do not understand Christian riddles.

wtf LOL I am not muslim so I do not care but this was so from left field. :lol:

[LightHouse89]

Why would you create humans just to test them? What is the purpose of that? Why would you give them the opportunity to "sin"? Does God enjoy it?

what crimes could possibly warrant a one way ticket to this "hell"? Aren't we punished for our actions enough on Earth (consequences, laws ect. ) ? Should we not have laws and prisons? Should we leave judgement for God?

why do we create children? like planting plants or seeds you do it to watch them grow I guess.

[LightHouse89]

wtf LOL I am not muslim so I do not care but this was so from left field. :lol:

and? they constantly ask questions about the Trinity can you explain it?

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

and? they constantly ask questions about the Trinity can you explain it?

LOL I don't support it, But I think its dumb anyways. You have your religion and they have theirs. You guys just have different interpretations, what they say doesn't really effect your religion.

[wvwvw]

Why would you create humans just to test them? What is the purpose of that? Why would you give them the opportunity to "sin"? Does God enjoy it?

what crimes could possibly warrant a one way ticket to this "hell"? Aren't we punished for our actions enough on Earth (consequences, laws ect. ) ? Should we not have laws and prisons? Should we leave judgement for God?

God created us although he knew we'd sin, but don't we still have children, knowing that they will hurt us, as we have hurt our parents? But the sheer joy that goes with having children overrides all the pain we also know will exist.

He created us in his image and that entails freedom of choice. Love gives freedom. Love that holds someone captive is not love, it’s dominion ship.

Adam and Eve had free will, to either trust God –to let him be the one to determine what was good and evil by eating from the tree of life, or to distrust him and decide by themselves by eating from the tree of good and evil. Adam and eve chose to be gods over themselves and experience good and evil. By eating the fruit of that tree, Eve became god over her own life. That one act brought about the separation of God from man –our spiritual death.

But because God is Love he planned our salvation although we sinned and erred greatly.


what crimes could possibly warrant a one way ticket to this "hell"?

It was our distrust of God that caused sin to enter the world, and it is our trust in God that restores us back to our previous state. Doubt of God caused our falled state so the remedy is faith.

Death in Adam, Life in Christ

12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- 13for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law..

The Bible says that God hates Death. He calls it his enemy. Surely it was not part of the original Creation. Death is a foreigner, an intruder in God's perfect world. The Bible says that death is a result of mans sin.

The Bible also says that that when Christ returns, all things will be restored. There will be no more sin or death.

Because it was man who brought death into the world, a man must also defeat death. Christ is the only man who could do this because he was without sin.

Corinthians 15:20 says:
"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept [ the first to rise from the dead ]. For since by man [Adam] came death, by man [Christ] also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be alive."

Death entered after the Creation was finished. God was wise in placing the consequence of death from sin. For without it, we would be eternally separated from God. Through this Curse of Death comes a Blessing. The opportunity to be united with a God who loves us. There is reconciliation with God for those who trust in Jesus. Christ has reconciled himself to us. We need to reconcile ourselves to him by asking him to be our Savior and to Save us.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_ORj8gRjzk

[Also]

Why would you create humans just to test them? What is the purpose of that? Why would you give them the opportunity to "sin"? Does God enjoy it?

what crimes could possibly warrant a one way ticket to this "hell"? Aren't we punished for our actions enough on Earth (consequences, laws ect. ) ? Should we not have laws and prisons? Should we leave judgement for God?

You are like a machine gun of question rsrs... I'll answer almost as shortly as you ask because those are multiple questions.

God created humans because of His love, "just to test them" is not really representative of our views. The possibility to sin is a logical consequence of having free-will, creating a universe filled only with rocks and woods wasn't good enough apparently, but for us creatures endowed with free-will to chose to do good is only possible if we can chose among options and there it enters the possibility of commiting a sin. God enjoys what is good, I don't know what is your "it", if it is sin then of course not, God allowing things to happen does not necessarily implies he finds it pleasing but He may have sufficient moral reasons for allowing it, those things are not mutually exclusive.

Roughly speaking being apart from God causes suffering. People who want 'till the end to be apart from God will bring suffering upon themselves. Some of us are punished enough on Earth, some less and probably some more. And yes, we should have laws and prisons, God's existence does not precludes the existence of a judicial and prisional system, but in the end everyone will be judged by the creator.

[Armand_Duval]

God doesn't condem people, it is them who condem themselves with their actions.

[wvwvw]

Why did he say:
"I am ascending to MY Father AND YOUR Father and to MY God AND YOUR God."
In Islam God revealed himself in book form. In Christianity God revealed himself in flesh. The incarnation is actually God becoming a human being so that we could understand or know him and how to relate to him better.

In Islam and all other religions, man is trying to reach up to God. In the Bible, God is trying to reach down to us as human beings and reveal Himself to us in a way that will enable us to relate to him the way he wants us to relate to him.

Many people seem to think that when comparing Islam and Christianity that the Bible and the Quran are seen in the same way and that Jesus and Muhammad are seen in the same way. However, if you look at how these things are really looked at, this is not so.

Jesus is seen in Christianity in the same way that the Quran is seen in Islam. Muhammad is seen in the same way that we see the Apostle Paul. The Bible, as a record of what the prophets said and did, is more like the Hadith and Sunnah.

Jesus is the revelation of God, an expression that demonstrates who God is and what He is like. Even the Quran calls Him the "Word of Allah" (Kalamatullah), which is also what the Bible calls him.

You see, God wanting to reveal Himself to us and be in a loving relationship with us, lowered Himself to become like us so that it would easier for us to relate to Him and know who He is. Jesus was and is that physical human form of God. As someone I heard once described it, "God put on mankind like a garment."

He put on a physical body, because many times we are limited as human beings to the physical world around us, and cannot fully understand the spirit world that God is a part of. He became like us so that we would be capable of understanding and relating to Him just like we would a friend. Because we know what Jesus is like, we have a better way of knowing who God really is and how to be able to relate to Him.

Christians don't obey Him because it will determine whether they go to Paradise or not, but because they love Him as a result of His love for them. Their relationship with Him is what motivates them and gives them the desire to do what pleases Him. The whole basis of how Christians relate to God is a loving relationship with someone who is real and close, and not some God who they can never know in a personal way.

[wvwvw]

Why did he say:
"I am ascending to MY Father AND YOUR Father and to MY God AND YOUR God."

"But go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father."

He says not, Our Father: in one sense, therefore, is He mine, in another sense, yours; by nature mine, by grace yours. And my God, and your God. Nor did He say here, Our God: here, therefore, also is He in one sense mine, in another sense yours: my God; under whom I also am as man; your God, between whom and you I am mediator.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God; all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men." John 1:1-3
"He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world knew him not." John 1:10
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father." John 1:14

The Father begat the Word as the Author, Fellow-Counselor, and Framer of the things that have been created. He uttered the first Voice, begetting Him as Light of Light. And He sent Him forth to the world as its Lord. Hippolytus (c. 205, W), 5.227.

Jesus is unique since he alone has eternally co-existed along with the Father as the object of the Father's love:

"and now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made... Father, I desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where I am, to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world." John 17:5, 24

The God whom the disciples worshiped was not just the Father. The disciples worshiped the Trinity God of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Hence, the disciples' God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Sprit.

Jesus also demanded that we give him the same honor that we give to the Father:

"The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, EVEN AS THEY HONOR THE FATHER. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him." John 5:22-23
This honor entails that we pray to Jesus and worship him as God:

"Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask me anything in my name, I will do it." John 14:13-14

Muslims assume that human Jesus cannot be co-equal with the Father in authority, capability and power since Christ prayed to the Father. They fail to realize that Jesus took the form of a servant when becoming man. As such, Christ completely and willfully subjected himself to his Father's will throughout his earthly ministry. Instead of Christ using his own divine attributes to assist him while on earth, Christ completely submitted his fate into his Father's trust. Christ allowed himself to become totally dependent upon the Father in carrying him through all his earthly trials and tribulations:

"Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross." Philippians 2:5-8

[MarkyMark]

Theres many qoutes in the bible I will just post a few. so here

Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Clearly Moses and God approves of rape of virgins.



Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.


Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

It is clear that God doesn't give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans "property".

Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)



Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)



God Kills the Curious
And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)


Kill Brats
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)


These are qoutes from a website but I have skimmed a few and have found some in the Bible I had. I had the ABS bible version and still found some of the text of NAB versions.

Theres also the bible story of Joeb. Which is pretty sad. If you know what I am referring to

Yes, all examples of the ancient Israelites doing such evil, barbaric actions. The Old Testament is literally a story of what Christians believe to be the old covenant, the story of the Israelites as God's people. Obviously, as stated by the Old Testament, the Israelites were not perfect, they made many mistakes, and let their pagan traditions seep through in to their belief in one God. So, this is not actually God commanding them to do such stuff(unless a prophey deemed it so), it is their perversion of the ancient Hebrew religion, by letting their old barbaric, pagan beliefs into the true one. Several times in the old testament you can see that they turned to worship Baal(an aramean god of thunder), and continue their practice of sacrifice(which God did not want). The Old Testament was replaced by the new covenant(the new testament) which was established by the messiah, and thus replaced the old covenant. Each of these covenants were God's attempts at giving us redemption for "the fall". The fall is merely a reference to what was illustrated in the story of Adam and Eve: God did not create evil, it is our actions that place ourselves away from God, thus creating evil, or more precisely "lack of good".

See Christus Victor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtk5a66EfFc)for further clarification on the whole sacrifice thing.


It is obvious that Satan is a henchman of god, does not punishing evil sound good to you? Having Satan as the bad guy has dumbed down Christianity while they could have had a take where Satan is the necessary badass in contrast to the loving angels under his equal Gabriels command. Evil would be within all humans

Not that I believe in any of it...

Actually, contradictory to western ideas on satan, satan is merely a word for a "challenger", "distracter", or "tempter". It isn't any specific theological being. Also,there is a possibility of evil in any human. By our free will, we can choose to sin a place ourselves further away from God, hence the idea of evil.

[wvwvw]

Then if the father is not the son then god is neither of that.
explain trinity.

Then why did he scream at the end calling God?
A God calls for God? Why worship a God who has a God greater than him?
Jesus was praying to God, the Father, who is one with Him, who is in Heaven even when Jesus the Son was on earth. Jesus never did His own will but the will of the Father. Jesus came from the Father in Heaven to earth to fulfill His mission. Jesus is now a mediator between God and man, interceding for us always. Christ consciousness is mediator between man and God - Christ love challenge us to transcend limitations - to the ego.

[wvwvw]

It is obvious that Satan is a henchman of god, does not punishing evil sound good to you? Having Satan as the bad guy has dumbed down Christianity while they could have had a take where Satan is the necessary badass in contrast to the loving angels under his equal Gabriels command. Evil would be within all humans

Not that I believe in any of it...

It is Satan that will cause its self-destruction. Evil eventually causes death, an unatural state.
"The last enemy to be destroyed is Death" (1 Corinthians 15:26)

God probably loves Satan unconditionally, being a God of love. Not doing so it would be against against his nature.

"There is no evil in any human soul. It is the lack of love that distorts people. We are designed by God to self-correct, just like the rest of the universe. No one is lost because everyone is already saved." (Mellen-Thomas Benedict)

"Negative thought vibrations out of ignorance. High vibrations indicate love and spiritual development, while low vibrations indicate debasement and evil." (Arthur Yensen)

"Ego is always LOVE'S opposite. Love raises vibration and ego lowers it. Ego is a mental essence that each of us is made to endure for as long as we walk the planet. Ego is that thing that tells us in our mind, "No you can't do that ... because you're not talented, thin, good-looking, wealthy, intelligent, young, strong, interesting or intuitive ENOUGH!" This is the voice of the Liar. The Liar is the voice of ego. Let me put it this way: wherever there is separation, condemnation, self-doubt, lack-mentality, bitterness, hostility or segregation ... you can best be sure ego is not far behind. Ego wants to keep you earthbound and Heavenless for as long as it can. It is an essence that has been sent here to learn just as you have. However, it has a duty to challenge each of us and cause us to learn as it learns for itself. There is nothing to fear about the ego. It is just a fragile, spoiled child that screams and rants until it gets what it wants. And like any child, if you ignore it during its temper flare long enough, sooner or later it will get the message that those kinds of methods are not productive and will not yield positive results. If you understand the ego, you will understand the concept of the devil. Satanic frequency is the LOW-RANGE frequency that surrounds us in our collective thinking. It is the opposite of the HIGH, INCOMPREHENSIBLE LOVING frequency of God. Lower vibration brings depression, disillusionment, disease and despair. The lower our Soul's vibration falls, the more these dark things come upon us. Once you fall into LOWER vibration, immediately seek to amend it with LOVING, HIGHER VIBRATIONAL THOUGHT. It is like anything else, the more you put into something, that is what the end result will be." (Christian Andreason)

"The struggle between higher and lower self or what some call God and the Devil causes growth, until finally the negativity or the destructive elements are completely overcome." (Betty Bethards)

"I had a descent into what you might call Hell ... I did not see Satan or evil. My descent into Hell was a descent into each person's customized human misery, ignorance, and darkness of not-knowing. It seemed like a miserable eternity. But each of the millions of souls around me had a little star of light always available. But no one seemed to pay attention to it. They were so consumed with their own grief, trauma and misery." (Mellen-Thomas Benedict)

"Numerous scriptural accounts describe angels who turned against the pure goodness and love of God, and also turn humankind toward evil by malicious intent. The master of such forces is often called Satan or the devil. There is no doubt that evil exists on Earth. Similarly, those who have communication with the spiritual world state that all is not goodness and light there as well. Since we know that we enter the spiritual world at the same level of spiritual development we have gained while on Earth, then it makes sense that those who have had much give and take with selfishness, revenge and maliciousness will continue such acts in the spirit world. There is, therefore, evil and darkness in the spirit world. The darkness may be a result of ignorance and lack of understanding. Spiritual guides will enlighten willing souls and offer growth opportunities to lead the spirit into the light and warmth of higher realms. Some accounts inform us that ignorance of the need to seek growth may keep someone in a state of darkness for a long period of time. Apart from ignorance, there are also dark forces in the spirit world created by those of vengeful and malicious desires. Such are the forces, often called demonic, which influence, obsess or possess people on Earth and which may be instigators of crime and violence, sexual abuse and aberrations, and belief in Satanism. A person of such interests on Earth will inevitably be drawn to similar companionship in the spirit world. The dwelling place of such evil could certainly be called hell. Everyone entering the spiritual world, however, should know that a God of love suffers for those in darkness, ignorance and misery. Based on desire and willingness, the spirit is given opportunity for an upward journey." (Nora Spurgin)

According to the Christian mystic, Edgar Cayce, "Satan" and the Book of Revelation is the symbolic account of "the fall of all human souls" and their ultimate restoration as permanent citizens of heaven - similar to Jesus' symbolic parable of the Prodigal Son. Cayce revealed through his NDE-like experiences that all human souls were created before the universe began and none have been created since. Some of these human souls left their abode in heaven and some became trapped on Earth in flesh are now finding their way back to God through the cycle of evolution and reincarnation:
"Our minds are led by the spirit we are entertaining, the spirit of God or the spirit of the devil - self. This spiritual force of selfishness is the false god referred to as Satan. It is the collective unconscious rebellion of humanity against God. This collective unconscious rebellion is manifested as self-centeredness, self-gratification, self-seeking, self-righteousness, self-glorification, self-consciousness, self-indulgence, self-deception, self-serving, self-condemnation, self-absorbed, self-importance, selfishness, SELF. It is the force of the unevolved animalistic nature (the "beast") within humans. Satan is the unregenerated lower self that wars against the Higher Self within every human being. Jesus, on the other hand, went to the cross to fulfill his mission of showing humans the way to "crucify" their lower nature. Through a person's Higher Self of unconditional love - the manifestation of God - a person can attain at-one-ment with the divine nature within. This Higher Self is the Spirit of self-sacrifice, self-denial, selflessness, self-effacing, self-discipline, self-control, self-restraint, self-respect - the divine self that is a part of God and which wars against the lower self." (Edgar Cayce)

Edgar Cayce revealed that the greatest enemy we will ever have to face is self. This also corresponds with the NDE life review where, after death, we observe all our thoughts and deeds in minute detail. The life review is often mistaken by some NDE experiencers as judgment from God; but, in the final analysis, it is discovered to be a process for our own spiritual growth and education - not damnation. Cayce interpreted the Book of Revelation to be the story of humanity overcoming the enemy within. In Revelation, Babylon is symbolic of our selfish desires that cause us to war against ourselves and others. Armageddon is a battle between the beast nature of our animalistic lower self and the lamb - the divine nature of our Higher Self. Once the lower self is overcome by the higher self, the devil (self-will) is cast into the Abyss (the divine will suppressing the self-will). The result of this is the Kingdom of heaven (the rule of the Holy Spirit within) as it comes to Earth (the human body). Genesis is the story of humanity's fall from heaven. Revelation is the story of humanity being restored to God. It is paradise lost and then paradise found. (Edgar Cayce)


But I can see what you mean:

Carl G. Jung, a near-death experiencer and the father of analytical psychology, defined the "devil" to be the dark aspect of human nature which exists solely within a person's mind. Jung called this dark nature the shadow archetype and said it represents the negative ego personality and qualities which are painful and regrettable. When we have dark thoughts or engaged in negative activity, we may experience guilt, fear, and anxiety. Jung believed the shadow archetype is made up of those aspects of our lives which we try to repress. But this repression may sooner or later result in their manifestation. For example, if someone is brought up believing that sex is dirty, they may end up becoming promiscuous because they had repressed this aspect of their nature. What such a person is doing is trying to embrace the darker aspects of their life which is previously forbidden to them. While Christianity believes that evil is in opposition to good, Jung saw evil as that which needs to be recognized and in some ways embraced in order for a person to remain psychologically balanced. (Carl G. Jung)

[Smaland]

People are so used to their own sins that they just doesn't seem so bad to them, at least not all sins. And so some might say, how could Heaven send us to Hell for committing (whatever sin we might be participating in at the time).

But God is completely pure, and has always been so. Therefore, what is not so bad to us is an utter abomination to Him, and deserves to be punished with an appropriate penalty.

[dude]

Because God created people to be like him. That's why humans lie, cheat, scheme and deceive.

[TCDA1986]

Fr. Robert Barron on Whether Hell is Crowded or Empty


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmsa0sg4Od4

Excellent video, thank you for posting.

[wvwvw]

Then if the father is not the son then god is neither of that.
explain trinity.

The nature of God is a very complicated subject, because God is way above our understanding. In fact, a god that would fit into my mind or yours wouldn’t be a very big god, would he?

Nevertheless there is a way in which we can maybe glimpse a bit of it. The Bible tells that God has created us in His image. Now that does not mean our bodies, because the infinite God doesn’t have a body, but He has created us with creative minds. We only have to close our eyes, and we can dream up a world of our own. That is only a very feeble semblance of the way in which God creates, yet in our own little way we do create stories and dreams.

We are miniature creators, each of us. In a way God is dreaming the world, and His dream is so real that it is our reality. Yet, a dreamer is more real than his dream, so God must be a lot more real than we are.

So let’s see how we can imagine God becoming finite. Suppose I lie in bed, and (day)dream of a valley full of flowers. In my dream, I am picking a bouquet, say. Now there are two, or even three ways in which someone else in the valley may conceive me. First of all there is the creator me, who is lying in bed. Then there is the me who is picking flowers, and who is part of the creation. And finally, I may decide what I want people in my dream to think and do, so there is a third way in which people can experience me. In Christianity, these three aspects of the same, single God are called the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

This is only a helpful image to grasp a supernatural truth. Any problem with the image just shows how hard it is for us to grasp the reality - it is no indication of a problem with that reality. The whole thing is the more confusing, since on the one hand the Father and the Son are clearly one single God, yet on the other hand, like with me dreaming, one is in the bed, and the other in the valley, so to speak.

[LightHouse89]

The nature of God is a very complicated subject, because God is way above our understanding. In fact, a god that would fit into my mind or yours wouldn’t be a very big god, would he?

Nevertheless there is a way in which we can maybe glimpse a bit of it. The Bible tells that God has created us in His image. Now that does not mean our bodies, because the infinite God doesn’t have a body, but He has created us with creative minds. We only have to close our eyes, and we can dream up a world of our own. That is only a very feeble semblance of the way in which God creates, yet in our own little way we do create stories and dreams.

We are miniature creators, each of us. In a way God is dreaming the world, and His dream is so real that it is our reality. Yet, a dreamer is more real than his dream, so God must be a lot more real than we are.

So let’s see how we can imagine God becoming finite. Suppose I lie in bed, and (day)dream of a valley full of flowers. In my dream, I am picking a bouquet, say. Now there are two, or even three ways in which someone else in the valley may conceive me. First of all there is the creator me, who is lying in bed. Then there is the me who is picking flowers, and who is part of the creation. And finally, I may decide what I want people in my dream to think and do, so there is a third way in which people can experience me. In Christianity, these three aspects of the same, single God are called the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

This is only a helpful image to grasp a supernatural truth. Any problem with the image just shows how hard it is for us to grasp the reality - it is no indication of a problem with that reality. The whole thing is the more confusing, since on the one hand the Father and the Son are clearly one single God, yet on the other hand, like with me dreaming, one is in the bed, and the other in the valley, so to speak.

Its impossible to understand God's nature but it isn't impossible to understand your nature :p

[Svipdag]

If no one minds, I shall use the term the "Supreme Being" in lieu of "God" which is freighted with too much preposterous mythology.
Ancient men based their concepts of the Supreme Being on the authority figures which were familiar to them ,namely despots, and endowed them with insultingly human failings such as jealousy and wrath.

Even more presumptuously, they pretended that, with their finite human minds, they were capable of knowing what what this Being wants ! Want implies a lack. Does the deity lack anything ? Surely, the thoughts, the intentions, and the will of an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent entity are utterly beyond the comprehension of Man's puny intellect. No man can form any valid concept of
such a Being. The Supreme Being is unknowable and incomprehensible to Man.

Those men who, feeling themselves to be divinely inspired, even if they were, still could only write as men of their time understood.
Indeed, had they been endowed with greater understanding, their writings would have been incomprehensible to their contemporaries.

But, they wrote as they understood. Despots imprisoned or executed those who displeased them, so, the deity must act in the same way. Yeshua tried to convert the fierce furious God of the ancients into a God of Love, a thankless task, as Men were not ready for such a concept.

[Also]

Ancient men based their concepts of the Supreme Being on the authority figures which were familiar to them ,namely despots, and endowed them with insultingly human failings such as jealousy and wrath.

True for some cases untrue for others. Some gods were said to be just others unjust. Also many gods were conceived in a material form but were non-anthropomorfic, like Apis the egyptian bull-god, Maahes the egyptian lion-headed-god, Ganesha hindu elephant-god, so it seems unlikely that the main source of inspiration for these gods were human despots.



Even more presumptuously, they pretended that, with their finite human minds, they were capable of knowing what what this Being wants ! Want implies a lack. Does the deity lack anything ? Surely, the thoughts, the intentions, and the will of an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent entity are utterly beyond the comprehension of Man's puny intellect. No man can form any valid concept of
such a Being. The Supreme Being is unknowable and incomprehensible to Man.

Many of them didn't believe to know what God wants based so much on deductive reasoning but on direct revelation, so it was not a matter of deducing what God wants but having it revealed, however it is true that God cannot be exhaustively understood by human minds but it is also true that there are things that can be understood. It is untrue that want imples a lack, this is only true if you want something you lack, you can want things you do not lack. A rich man can want a poor man to have more money, the wish of the rich man here has nothing to do with something he lacks. Particularly because God is perfect He is not a being that will only act if it is to benefit Himself personally, afterall perfect love is part of perfection, not that there is anything He lacks which could be improved anyway, but you are the one coming up an with an inappropriate concept here. A perfect being may have reasons to act. And it seems impossible to consistently conceive a perfect being that does not want good.



Those men who, feeling themselves to be divinely inspired, even if they were, still could only write as men of their time understood.
Indeed, had they been endowed with greater understanding, their writings would have been incomprehensible to their contemporaries.

But, they wrote as they understood. Despots imprisoned or executed those who displeased them, so, the deity must act in the same way. Yeshua tried to convert the fierce furious God of the ancients into a God of Love, a thankless task, as Men were not ready for such a concept.

Not all ancient gods incorporate your description of despots, in polytheistic religions gods could take many different roles and they were not necessarily responsible for judgment and punishment and even of those who were this characteristic was not necessarily adopted because of human despots but probably because of moral seetings and the instinct of natural law that good deeds have value and evil deeds will be punished. Some gods would be fair and still would (fairly) judge, others could be more like despots.