Balkan k13 results

[HellLander87]

Here are some Bulgarian for starters.

North_Atlantic 19.88%
Baltic 22.49%
West_Med 19.35%
West_Asian 16.34%
East_Med 17.59%
Red_Sea 1.54%
South_Asian 0.27%
East_Asian 0.38%
Siberian 0.87%
Amerindian 0.72%
Oceanian 0.59%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


North_Atlantic 17.58%
Baltic 29.82%
West_Med 17.48%
West_Asian 15.72%
East_Med 15.75%
Red_Sea 1.36%
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.44%
Siberian 0.25%
Amerindian -
Oceanian 1.40%
Northeast_African 0.19%
Sub-Saharan -

North_Atlantic 22.16%
Baltic 23.42%
West_Med 19.22%
West_Asian 9.42%
East_Med 18.62%
Red_Sea 4.84%
South_Asian 0.25%
East_Asian 0.40%
Siberian 0.80%
Amerindian 0.87%
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


North_Atlantic 21.01%
Baltic 25.60%
West_Med 16.14%
West_Asian 14.07%
East_Med 18.71%
Red_Sea 2.40%
South_Asian 0.14%
East_Asian 0.15%
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.32%
Oceanian 0.75%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.72%

Macedonian(FYROM) result(edit:i had posted that at 4 page too but better to have it here with the rest)

North_Atlantic 22.37%
Baltic 23.62%
West_Med 18.41%
West_Asian 8.61%
East_Med 24.40%
Red_Sea 1.24%
South_Asian -
East_Asian 1.12%
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.24%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[HellLander87]

Few Romanian

North_Atlantic 27.55%
Baltic 23.98%
West_Med 19.31%
West_Asian 7.33%
East_Med 17.40%
Red_Sea 0.62%
South_Asian -
East_Asian 1.26%
Siberian 0.76%
Amerindian 0.26%
Oceanian 0.98%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.55%

North_Atlantic 26.32%
Baltic 25.20%
West_Med 17.19%
West_Asian 10.99%
East_Med 14.26%
Red_Sea 1.85%
South_Asian 0.64%
East_Asian 2.86%
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.65%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

North_Atlantic 19.96%
Baltic 20.54%
West_Med 13.14%
West_Asian 14.67%
East_Med 24.23%
Red_Sea 3.67%
South_Asian 0.81%
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.30%
Amerindian 1.35%
Oceanian 0.28%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[HellLander87]

Some Greek results that I had posted again.

Me
North_Atlantic 21.45%
Baltic 17.91%
West_Med 20.21%
West_Asian 8.61%
East_Med 27.09%
Red_Sea 2.54%
South_Asian 1.47%
East_Asian 0.72%
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


Uncle
North_Atlantic 24.65%
Baltic 19.14%
West_Med 21.67%
West_Asian 9.15%
East_Med 21.26%
Red_Sea 3.28%
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.58%
Siberian 0.23%
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -






North_Atlantic 22.02%
Baltic 15.12%
West_Med 21.39%
West_Asian 9.91%
East_Med 26.49%
Red_Sea 2.96%
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.21%
Amerindian 0.89%
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -





North_Atlantic 22.18%
Baltic 14.86%
West_Med 19.70%
West_Asian 10.14%
East_Med 30.48%
Red_Sea 1.70%
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.18%
Siberian 0.38%
Amerindian 0.12%
Oceanian 0.16%
Northeast_African 0.08%
Sub-Saharan -





North_Atlantic 23.37%
Baltic 19.76%
West_Med 17.94%
West_Asian 12.07%
East_Med 21.10%
Red_Sea 3.12%
South_Asian 0.12%
East_Asian 0.09%
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.78%
Oceanian 0.83%
Northeast_African 0.82%
Sub-Saharan -



North_Atlantic 25.33%
Baltic 18.78%
West_Med 19.45%
West_Asian 11.29%
East_Med 20.69%
Red_Sea 1.70%
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.94%
Amerindian 0.66%
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 1.14%
Sub-Saharan -





North_Atlantic 22.47%
Baltic 18.30%
West_Med 20.67%
West_Asian 11.28%
East_Med 22.58%
Red_Sea 3.64%
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 1.06%
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -






North_Atlantic 19.41%
Baltic 17.12%
West_Med 21.50%
West_Asian 9.88%
East_Med 27.97%
Red_Sea 3.09%
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.15%
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.12%
Northeast_African 0.75%
Sub-Saharan -








North_Atlantic 20.29%
Baltic 24.10%
West_Med 18.99%
West_Asian 11.26%
East_Med 23.23%
Red_Sea 0.83%
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.91%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.39%






North_Atlantic 18.43%
Baltic 20.40%
West_Med 18.28%
West_Asian 10.77%
East_Med 26.07%
Red_Sea 4.11%
South_Asian 0.90%
East_Asian 0.23%
Siberian 0.44%
Amerindian 0.10%
Oceanian 0.26%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


North_Atlantic 23.91%
Baltic 21.11%
West_Med 17.09%
West_Asian 10.01%
East_Med 25.21%
Red_Sea 2.67%
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[HellLander87]

Some Albanian results originally posted by safinator

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 24.43
2 East_Med 21.08
3 West_Med 20.82
4 Baltic 15.82
5 West_Asian 13.49
6 Red_Sea 4.13
7 Oceanian 0.23


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 26.22
2 North_Atlantic 23.31
3 West_Med 21.33
4 Baltic 13.52
5 West_Asian 11.99
6 Red_Sea 2.26
7 Amerindian 0.74
8 Oceanian 0.44
9 East_Asian 0.19

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 24.6
2 North_Atlantic 21.61
3 Baltic 21.21
4 West_Med 20.86
5 West_Asian 10.26
6 Red_Sea 1.08
7 Siberian 0.39


# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 24.61
2 East_Med 21.41
3 West_Med 20.36
4 Baltic 16.33
5 West_Asian 10.28
6 Red_Sea 6
7 East_Asian 0.77
8 Oceanian 0.23



Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 28
2 West_Med 21.76
3 North_Atlantic 20.01
4 Baltic 14.05
5 West_Asian 12.41
6 Red_Sea 2.3
7 Oceanian 0.8
8 Amerindian 0.49
9 Sub-Saharan 0.18


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 25.62
2 North_Atlantic 23.95
3 West_Med 19.37
4 Baltic 17.99
5 West_Asian 9.49
6 Red_Sea 2.27
7 Oceanian 0.66
8 Siberian 0.65


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 22.72
2 West_Med 21
3 North_Atlantic 19.36
4 Baltic 18.8
5 West_Asian 13.48
6 East_Asian 2.24
7 Red_Sea 2.16
8 Oceanian 0.24


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 24.53
2 North_Atlantic 24.43
3 West_Med 21.23
4 Baltic 13.47
5 West_Asian 13.28
6 Red_Sea 1.93
7 Siberian 0.6
8 East_Asian 0.52
9 Amerindian 0.02


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 26.04
2 North_Atlantic 22.47
3 West_Med 19.87
4 Baltic 17.8
5 West_Asian 10.39
6 Red_Sea 3.03
7 Oceanian 0.33
8 Northeast_African 0.07
9 Siberian 0.01


# Population Percent
1 West_Med 25.37
2 East_Med 20.77
3 North_Atlantic 20.68
4 Baltic 18.7
5 West_Asian 11.34
6 Red_Sea 2.19
7 East_Asian 0.59
8 Siberian 0.36


# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 24.54
2 West_Med 24.11
3 East_Med 21.7
4 Baltic 15.82
5 West_Asian 11.01
6 South_Asian 1.27
7 Red_Sea 0.99
8 Oceanian 0.37
9 Siberian 0.17


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 24.32
2 North_Atlantic 23.71
3 West_Med 20.9
4 Baltic 15.67
5 West_Asian 11.7
6 Red_Sea 2.86
7 South_Asian 0.84


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 27.5
2 West_Med 23.29
3 North_Atlantic 20.55
4 Baltic 16.35
5 West_Asian 10.51
6 Red_Sea 1.21
7 Oceanian 0.23
8 East_Asian 0.18
9 Siberian 0.16

[Drawing-slim]

Interesting, Albanians score the lowest amount of Baltic.

[HellLander87]

Few Serbian

North_Atlantic 26.22%
Baltic 26.93%
West_Med 18.58%
West_Asian 8.82%
East_Med 14.12%
Red_Sea 3.27%
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.23%
Amerindian 0.51%
Oceanian 0.32%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


North_Atlantic 26.96%
Baltic 28.47%
West_Med 16.24%
West_Asian 8.11%
East_Med 15.74%
Red_Sea 3.09%
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.37%
Siberian 0.88%
Amerindian 0.12%
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

North_Atlantic 22.58%
Baltic 27.70%
West_Med 18.45%
West_Asian 9.53%
East_Med 16.46%
Red_Sea 3.52%
South_Asian 0.13%
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.09%
Amerindian 0.56%
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

North_Atlantic 25.49%
Baltic 26.89%
West_Med 17.43%
West_Asian 10.41%
East_Med 15.82%
Red_Sea 1.66%
South_Asian 1.09%
East_Asian 0.14%
Siberian 0.30%
Amerindian 0.71%
Oceanian 0.07%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[Thrax]

Here are my results and the results of a friend of mine from Ptolemaida (town in north-west Greece)

Me:
North_Atlantic 20.07%
Baltic 15.01%
West_Med 18.33%
West_Asian 15.10%
East_Med 28.37%
Red_Sea 1.82%
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.41%
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.15%
Oceanian 0.70%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Friend:
North_Atlantic 18.28%
Baltic 17.58%
West_Med 22.25%
West_Asian 14.59%
East_Med 22.25%
Red_Sea 2.85%
South_Asian 0.44%
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.20%
Amerindian 1.01%
Oceanian 0.56%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[HellLander87]

Here are my results and the results of a friend of mine from Ptolemaida (town in north-west Greece)


Is his ancestry fully from this region?

[Thrax]

Yes, he is fully from this region. I would also expect his results to be a bit different.

[Sikeliot]

Are any of the Greeks from the islands? I want to compare them to the Sicilian K13 results I have seen, because judging by the majority of the Greek results above they are less East Med than us and FAR more Baltic.

[HellLander87]

Are any of the Greeks from the islands? I want to compare them to the Sicilian K13 results I have seen, because judging by the majority of the Greek results above they are less East Med than us and FAR more Baltic.
I am not sure man.I don't know their exact origins.

[Sikeliot]

I'd speculate that those with lower Baltic and higher East Med are islanders, but none of the Baltic scores drop below 10%. In fact none really even come close to doing so.

But surely at least one of those is an islander.. I'd be surprised if not.

[Thrax]

More greek results:

Guy from Western Greece:
North_Atlantic 16.83%
Baltic 17.83%
West_Med 23.92%
West_Asian 11.49%
East_Med 27.59%
Red_Sea 0.55%
South_Asian -
East_Asian 1.32%
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.23%
Oceanian 0.10%
Northeast_African 0.14%
Sub-Saharan -

Girl from unknown area:
North_Atlantic 17.84%
Baltic 15.23%
West_Med 21.56%
West_Asian 16.14%
East_Med 24.38%
Red_Sea 3.71%
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.94%
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.20%

[Sikeliot]

More greek results:

If you find any islanders I am curious :)

[cally]

Why do some have such high East Med scores? What could account for the difference between someone scoring 20 and another 28?

[Sikeliot]

Why do some have such high East Med scores? What could account for the difference between someone scoring 20 and another 28?

For Greeks it might be Anatolian or Pontic admixture.

Anyway, for reference here are two Sicilian results.. one is paksaltopam's grandmother from Trapani province and the other Sicilianu101 from Messina province. Just to see how they compare to the Greeks and Albanians.



# Population Percent
1 East_Med 29.66%
2 West_Med 21.57%
3 North_Atlantic 21.47%
4 West_Asian 12.24%
5 Baltic 6.87%
6 Red_Sea 5.47%
7 Northeast_African 1.49%
8 Sub-Saharan 1.22%


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.55%
2 West_Med 20.81%
3 North_Atlantic 20.16%
4 West_Asian 15.80%
5 Baltic 2.00%
6 Red_Sea 7.79%
7 Northeast_African 1.12%
8 Sub-Saharan 0.77%

[HellLander87]

For Greeks it might be Anatolian or Pontic admixture.


Nope.There are albos too with east med nearing 30% safinator scores near 30% i think.

[cally]

Wouldn't Anatolian effect both west Asian and East med? Albanians seem to have constant west Asian but only the east med component drastically differs.

[Sikeliot]

What I am seeing is that Albanian and Greek results are very similar, but the Greeks have more Baltic (probably because some parts of Greece have high Slavic influence).

[HellLander87]

Wouldn't Anatolian effect both west Asian and East med? Albanians seem to have constant west Asian but only the east med component drastically differs.
It may have to do with what kind of snps consist the clusters.Maybe the west asian is more specific,or north atlantic is something like baltic+eastmed maybe something like that .Idk really.

[Sikeliot]

I posted an announcement on 23andme asking for Greek islanders, southern Italians, and Sicilians to post their results. I'll make a separate thread for them if they do, for comparison.

[Graham]

Baltic
29.82% Bulgarian 2
28.47% Serbian 2
27.70% Serbian 3
26.93% Serbian 1
26.89% Serbian 4
25.60% Bulgarian 4
24.10% Greek 7
25.20% Romanian 2
23.98% Romanian 1
23.42% Bulgarian 3
22.49% Bulgarian 1
21.21% Albanian 3
21.11% Greek 9
20.54% Romanian 3
20.40% Greek 8
-----
19.76% Greek 3
19.14% Greek HellLander Uncle
18.80% Albanian 6
18.70% Albanian 9
18.78% Greek 4
18.30% Greek 5
17.99% Albanian 5
17.91% Greek HellLander
17.80% Albanian 8
17.58% Greek Thrax friend
17.09% Greek 9
17.12% Greek 6
16.35% Albanian 12
16.33% Albanian 3
15.82% Albanian 1
15.82% Albanian 10
15.67% Albanian 11
15.01% Greek Thrax
15.12% Greek 1
14.86% Greek 2
14.05% Albanian 4
13.52% Albanian 2
13.47% Albanian 7

West_Med25.37% Albanian 9
24.11% Albanian 10
23.29% Albanian 11
22.25% Greek Thrax Friend
21.76% Albanian 4
21.67% HellLander Uncle
21.50% Greek 6
21.39% Greek 1
21.33% Albanian 2
21.23% Albanian 7
21.00% Albanian 6
20.82% Albanian 1
20.67% Greek 5
20.21% Greek HellLander
20.90% Albanian 10
20.86% Albanian 3
20.36% Albanian 4
-----
19.87% Albanian 8
19.70% Greek 2
19.45% Greek 4
19.37% Albanian 5
19.35% Bulgarian 1
19.31% Romanian 1
18.99% Greek 7
18.58% Serbian 1
18.45% Serbian 3
18.33% Greek Thrax
18.28% Greek 8
17.94% Greek 3
19.22% Bulgarian 3
17.48% Bulgarian 2
17.43% Serbian 4
17.19% Romanian 2
16.24% Serbian 2
16.14% Bulgarian 4
13.14% Romanian 3

[Kastrioti1443]

Albanians score in average 17% east Med or less, anything higher is atypical in general.

[Sikeliot]

Looks like Albanians are the most "native" to the Balkans on average.

[wvwvw]

Looks like Albanians are the most "native" to the Balkans on average.

Making ass-umptions again

[Kastrioti1443]

Anyways in general genotype=/= phenotype, something which is proven in a lot of cases in this forum, some albanian members are good examples.

Mountain Albanians are the most Native, especially the Ghegs, no Slavic or much Med admixture.

[Sikeliot]

Making ass-umptions again

Post yours?

[Geni]

Geni
Population Percent
________________________________
1 East_Med 26.59
2 North_Atlantic 23.63
3 West_Med 21.62
4 Baltic 13.71
5 West_Asian 12.15
6 Red_Sea 2.30

[HellLander87]

Albanians score in average 17% east Med or less, anything higher is atypical in general.
you mean probably like 25% east med.

[Danishmend]

Why do some have such high East Med scores? What could account for the difference between someone scoring 20 and another 28?

For Greeks it might be Anatolian or Pontic admixture.

Turks have 25-30% East Med on average so it has nothing to do with 'Anatolia' at all, central-north Greeks (Greek_Thessaly) score 25,39% East_Med according to Eurogenes K13 population averages, it probably peaks in southern & islander Greeks since they lack the Slavic admixture of northerners

some Turkish results:
http://i.hizliresim.com/XW6XYO.png (http://hizliresim.com/XW6XYO)
http://i.hizliresim.com/YP6NjD.png (http://hizliresim.com/YP6NjD)
http://i.hizliresim.com/oQVkYq.png (http://hizliresim.com/oQVkYq)

[Kastrioti1443]

you mean probably like 25% east med.

I wasn't paying much attention to this thread , but now I saw the results you posted in 1st page.

Are you trying to '' prove'' anything with those '' chosen'' results?

The average greek, despite his location with always score more east med and and more west asian than average Tosk albanian. I have seen hundreds of albanian and greek results, and sometimes you have mainland greeks who score like 33% east med and 29% west asian in one result.

Anyway in general albanians score most west med ( atlantid med), more north atlantic and less west asian then greeks.

The results of albanian highlanders i have seen score almost always under 17% east med ( which is however a native balkanic type), but more north atlantic and more west med than other albanians and always low Baltic.

Those high baltic scores of the greeks you posted here, mean direct slavic admixture, high baltic is related to slavs, while east med is much more native than baltic.

For example Geni here that posted results is a Tosk Albanian, he scores more North Atlantic , more West Med, much less Baltic and less West Asian than the results you posted here, but guess what, he is a blu eyed Atlanto-Borreby.

These results mean nothing in terms of phenotype.

[Trun]

West Asian East Med North Atlantic
1. Bul 16,34 1. Gre 30,48 1. Rom 27,55
2. Bul 15,72 2. Gre 28,37 2. Srb 26,96
3. Gre 15,10 3. Alb 28,00 3. Rom 26,32
4. Rom 14,67 4. Gre 27,97 4. Srb 26,22
5. Gre 14,59 5. Alb 27,50 5. Srb 25,49
6. Bul 14,07 6. Gre 27,09 6. Gre 25,33
7. Alb 13,49 7. Gre 26,49 7. Gre 24,65
8. Alb 13,48 8. Alb 26,22 8. Alb 24,61
9. Alb 13,28 9. Gre 26,07 9. Alb 24,54
10.Alb 12,41 10.Alb 26,04 10.Alb 24,43
11.Gre 12,07 11.Alb 25,62 11.Alb 24,43
12.Alb 11,99 12.Gre 25,21 12.Alb 23,95
13.Alb 11,70 13.Alb 24,60 13.Gre 23,91
14.Alb 11,34 14.Alb 24,53 14.Alb 23,71
15.Gre 11,29 15.Alb 24,32 15.Gre 23,37
16.Gre 11,28 16.Rom 24,23 16.Alb 23,31
17.Gre 11,26 17.Gre 23,23 17.Srb 22,58
18.Alb 11,01 18.Alb 22,72 18.Alb 22,47
19.Rom 10,99 19.Gre 22,58 19.Gre 22,47
20.Gre 10,77 20.Gre 22,25 20.Gre 22,18
21.Alb 10,51 21.Alb 21,70 21.Bul 22,16
22.Srb 10,41 22.Alb 21,41 22.Gre 22,02
23.Alb 10,39 23.Gre 21,26 23.Alb 21,61
24.Alb 10,28 24.Gre 21,10 24.Gre 21,45
25.Alb 10,26 25.Alb 21,08 25.Bul 21,01
26.Gre 10,14 26.Alb 20,77 26.Alb 20,68
27.Gre 10,01 27.Gre 20,69 27.Alb 20,55
28.Gre 9,91 28.Bul 18,71 28.Gre 20,29
29.Gre 9,88 29.Bul 18,62 29.Gre 20,07
30.Srb 9,53 30.Bul 17,59 30.Alb 20,01
31.Alb 9,49 31.Rom 17,40 31.Rom 19,96
32.Bul 9,42 32.Srb 16,46 32.Bul 19,88
33.Gre 9,15 33.Srb 15,82 33.Gre 19,41
34.Srb 8,82 34.Bul 15,75 34.Alb 19,36
35.Gre 8,61 35.Srb 15,74 35.Gre 18,43
36.Srb 8,11 36.Rom 14,62 36.Gre 18,28
37.Rom 7,33 37.Srb 14,12 37.Bul 17,58

[HellLander87]

blah blah blah
Thanks for contributing to the thread.

[Sky earth]

Romanians and Serbians seem to have more Mongoloid admixture than other Balkanites.

[Trun]

According to the results HellLander posted, Bulgarians have lower North Atlantic and higher West Asian averages than Northern Greeks.

However, I checked the averages for Bulgaria and Thessaly and West Asian average is same, while North Atlantic is slightly higher for Bulgarians.

[Thrax]

West Asian is a bit higher in northern Greeks and Bulgarians compared to the rest of the balkans (except maybe for Eastern Thrace).
East Med isn't very different between Greeks and Albanians in general.
It also seems that West Med is higher in Albanians and Greeks from Epirus and Thessaly.
Baltic is definitely higher in slavic people (Bulgarians, Serbians) but is also higher in Romanians compared to Greeks and Albanians.
North Atlantic seems to be a bit higher the more northwest we move (though Romanians score higher)

No big differences between balkan peoples overall. I expect the greek islanders to score a bit differently though, I'm curious to see some results from those areas as well as from Crete.

[Thrax]

I would be very curious to see my father's results too, since he has 100% ancestry from Thrace.

[HellLander87]

No big differences between balkan peoples overall.
That's my conclusion too.

[Danishmend]

Romanians and Serbians seem to have more Mongoloid admixture than other Balkanites.

Cuman contribution

[HellLander87]

Macedonian(FYROM) result

North_Atlantic 22.37%
Baltic 23.62%
West_Med 18.41%
West_Asian 8.61%
East_Med 24.40%
Red_Sea 1.24%
South_Asian -
East_Asian 1.12%
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.24%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[Faklon]

Thessaly je Central Greece

Any Greek results from Central Greece proper/Roumeli?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/GreeceCenGreece.png

[HellLander87]

Thessaly je Central Greece

Any Greek results from Central Greece proper/Roumeli?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/GreeceCenGreece.png
Probably among my results some may be central greek.I don't know their exact origins.

[Faklon]

Probably among my results some may be central greek.I don't know their exact origins.

I remember some results that showed Central Greece to be similar to Aegean islands but could be that they tested people from Athens or Attica in general.

[Trun]

I remember some results that showed Central Greece to be similar to Aegean islands but maybe it was that they tested people from Athens or Attica in general.

Indeed, hence Central Greek results were very similar to Greek average.

[Faklon]

Indeed, hence Central Greek results were very similar to Greek average.

Not so sure about that,maybe more variation but it would be interesting if there is a gap between Thessaly and Peloponnese clustering with islanders.

[HellLander87]

I remember some results that showed Central Greece to be similar to Aegean islands but could be that they tested people from Athens or Attica in general.
It's impossible for central greeks to be like aegean islanders.I am from Agrafa for fuck's sake.:D
Don't trust these averages much man.The samples are neither ultra big(more like 20 p. sample) or nicely selected(It could mean probably just gathered there,never seen a minor asian greek samle btw).If the sample averages like aegean islanders it's proof it's a failed sample for native central greeks.

[Drawing-slim]

What I am seeing is that Albanian and Greek results are very similar, but the Greeks have more Baltic (probably because some parts of Greece have high Slavic influence).

It is perfectly in line with everything. Genetics simply tell the truth.
Albanians and Greeks being the natives of the region seem to score less Baltic while Albanians clearly score less east med than Greeks as well. Both populations proves are more native and depending further south you go or lower lands more east med you score. As I understand it Greeks and albos are the natives.

[Graham]

It shows that potentially Albanians have the strongest potential late-Neolithic ancestry, in West Med.

[Drawing-slim]

It shows that potentially Albanians have the strongest potential late-Neolithic ancestry, in West Med.

Translate what that means exactly?

[Graham]

Translate what's that means exactly?

Look up Otzi. West Med is a Sardinian cluster.

[Insuperable]

It shows that potentially Albanians have the strongest potential late-Neolithic ancestry, in West Med.

West Med is an indicator of early-Neolithic ancestry (Otzi and the like), whille East Med and West Asian is an indicator of later Neolithic ancestry.

edit: didn't see your last post. Early neolithic famers would be those similar to Otzi.

[Faklon]

It's impossible for central greeks to be like aegean islanders

Real Greeks without Balkanic heads according to Sikeliot.:naughty:

[Graham]

Otzi is late, hence the Chalcolithic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_age) link. Early Neolithic is like 10,000BC in the Levant where East Med peaks funnily enough.

West med is sort of Chalcolithic/Early Neolithic. East med is closer to Late Neolithic outside Europe. West Asian is Allahu Akbar! Taliban country.

[Graham]

East Med + West Med I reckon would be your best bet for the pre-South Slav culture of Balkans.

Chalcolithic Europe Wiki (Your West_Med Balkan link)

An archaeological site in southeastern Europe (Serbia) contains the oldest securely dated evidence of copper making at high temperature, from 7,500 years ago. The find in June 2010 extends the known record of copper smelting by about 800 years, and suggests that copper smelting may have been invented in separate parts of Asia and Europe at that time rather than spreading from a single source.

In Serbia, a copper axe was found at Prokuplje, which indicates that humans were using metals in Europe by 7,500 years ago (~5,500 BC), many years earlier than previously believed.

Knowledge of the use of copper was far more widespread than the metal itself. The European Battle Axe culture used stone axes modeled on copper axes, even with imitation "mold marks" carved in the stone.

Ötzi the Iceman, who was found in the Ötztal Alps in 1991 and whose remains were dated to about 3300 BC, was found with a Mondsee copper axe.

--------------------

Numerous examples of mines are known all over Europe from the east: Rudna Glava (Serbia), Ai Bunar (Bulgaria); to the west: Mount Gabriel (Ireland), Great Orme, Alderley Edge (United Kingdom); crossing Central Europe: Mitterberg (Salzach, Austria), Neuchâtel (Switzerland), Cabrierés (France); to the south: Riotinto, Mola Alta de Serelles (Spain); and the Mediterranean: Corsica, Cyprus, and the Cyclades islands. It is remarkable that, usually, it is not a single mine but a complex, with a variable, large number of mineshafts, as in Rudna Glava (30) or Mount Gabriel (31).

[Sky earth]

Cuman contribution

And also Avar contribution, who had a Khagante in the early middle ages in Eastern Europe. However The lingua franca of the Avar Khaganate became Slavic and the Avars disapperead from history

[Insuperable]

Otzi is late, hence the Chalcolithic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_age) link.

Sure, Otzi comes from a late Neolithic, but it seems that evidence so far points towards a continuity of early Neolithic farmers (neolithic when it comes to Europe) in certain areas of Europe all the way until Otzi. So, Oetzi may not be an early neolithic farmer, but West Med signal they brought is a sign of an early neolithic invaders. Oetzi is a representative of EEF.


Early Neolithic is like 10,000BC in the Levant where East Med peaks funnily enough.

Yeah, and neolithic age in Europe starts 8000+ BP. It is very much possible that Levant in that time was populated by people similar to European early neolithic farmers before gradual replacement of people in certain Middle Eastern areas.


West med is sort of Chalcolithic/Early Neolithic. East med is closer to Late Neolithic outside Europe. West Asian is Allahu Akbar! Taliban country.

Yeah, but shouldn't East Med also be an indicator of later Neolithic migrations (after Oetzi like people) in Europe too?

Am I mixing something here?

[Trun]

Baltic correlates with Indo-European speaking peoples who came to the Balkans so it is natural for peoples closer to the Pontic steppe to score higher Baltic. Both Thracians, Illyrians and Greeks had influence from Indo-Europeans because they adopted the language. Thracians certainly had most because they are closest to the birthplace of the Indo-European languages. That's why Romanians, Bulgarians and Serbs score higher. Not just some native fairytales Albanians and Greeks create in order to feel better.

[HellLander87]

Baltic correlates with Indo-European speaking peoples who came to the Balkans so it is natural for peoples closer to the Pontic steppe to score higher Baltic. Both Thracians, Illyrians and Greeks had influence from Indo-Europeans because they adopted the language. Thracians certainly had most because they are closest to the birthplace of the Indo-European languages. That's why Romanians, Bulgarians and Serbs score higher. Not just some native fairytales Albanians and Greeks create in order to feel better.
Maybe you just have to thank Cyrill and Methodius and khan Krum for speaking "Russian".

[Trun]

Maybe you just have to thank Cyrill and Methodius and khan Krum for speaking "Russian".

Khan Krum :lol: He lived a century before that.

Speaking a Slavic language saved Bulgaria from extinction.

[Thrax]

Thessaly je Central Greece

Any Greek results from Central Greece proper/Roumeli?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/GreeceCenGreece.png

See post #13. The first person there comes from the western part of central Greece

[Sikeliot]

No big differences between balkan peoples overall. I expect the greek islanders to score a bit differently though, I'm curious to see some results from those areas as well as from Crete.

They would probably score similarly to Sicilians but possibly more 'Baltic', though not as much as mainlanders.

What I notice in Greeks is, East Med increases when Baltic decreases. This means one of these components replaced the other or was present first.. they didn't arrive at the same time. I suspect islanders to gain a percentage of East or West Med for every amount of Baltic lost.



I have seen hundreds of albanian and greek results, and sometimes you have mainland greeks who score like 33% east med and 29% west asian in one result.

Impossible unless they are part Pontian.

[Sikeliot]

The K13 averages placed central Greece with eastern Sicily, which seems unlikely because this also places them with Aegean islanders, who Sicilians have been proven to be close to. Somehow I think it is possible that "central Greece" on this run includes the Aegean islands because they're located centrally in the Aegean.

Central Greece -- East Sicily

North Atlantic: 16.86, 16.46
Baltic: 10.36, 9.03
West Med: 21.47, 21.26
West Asian: 15.43, 13.83
East Med: 29.25, 29.91
Red Sea: 5.03, 6.26
NE African: - , 1.37

[Ibericus]

Some Albanian results originally posted by safinator
Using eucladian distances, for the Albanian average, the closest populations are :

1. Greek Thessaly @ 4.27
2. Tuscan @ 8.95
3. Bulgarian @ 9.35

[Sikeliot]

I asked a woman I know who is of Cretan and Aegean islander descent to run her data through GEDmatch so I can show you the results.

[Kastrioti1443]

Thanks for contributing to the thread.

What i said is the truth, ridiculous greek mongrel.

[Kastrioti1443]

They would probably score similarly to Sicilians but possibly more 'Baltic', though not as much as mainlanders.

What I notice in Greeks is, East Med increases when Baltic decreases. This means one of these components replaced the other or was present first.. they didn't arrive at the same time. I suspect islanders to gain a percentage of East or West Med for every amount of Baltic lost.




Impossible unless they are part Pontian.
You became a genetics scientist now? He said that he was full mainland greek.

[Kastrioti1443]

It is perfectly in line with everything. Genetics simply tell the truth.
Albanians and Greeks being the natives of the region seem to score less Baltic while Albanians clearly score less east med than Greeks as well. Both populations proves are more native and depending further south you go or lower lands more east med you score. As I understand it Greeks and albos are the natives.

'' greeks'' have never existed as an ethnicity before 1831, and if they are native to balkans, they are because a lot of them are of albanian and aromanian blood.

[Sikeliot]

You became a genetics scientist now? He said that he was full mainland greek.

That doesn't guarantee that none of his family was Pontic or Anatolian, since they assimilated by now but genetically the impact may still be there.

You have a lot of results in front of you, why do you deny what is right there?

[Kastrioti1443]

That doesn't guarantee that none of his family was Pontic or Anatolian, since they assimilated by now but genetically the impact may still be there.

You have a lot of results in front of you, why do you deny what is right there?

He didn't state he was Pontic... he said he was half from Morea and half from Macedonia.

[Hevo]

Nice thread, how are their Eutest v2 results like?

[Kastrioti1443]

Baltic correlates with Indo-European speaking peoples who came to the Balkans so it is natural for peoples closer to the Pontic steppe to score higher Baltic. Both Thracians, Illyrians and Greeks had influence from Indo-Europeans because they adopted the language. Thracians certainly had most because they are closest to the birthplace of the Indo-European languages. That's why Romanians, Bulgarians and Serbs score higher. Not just some native fairytales Albanians and Greeks create in order to feel better.

Baltic high score is related to slavic migration, from the pure slavs who came from northeast europe. The Indo-european realm was todays southern ukraine. Indo-european influence is more related to the north atlantic score.

[Sikeliot]

He didn't state he was Pontic... he said he was half from Morea and half from Macedonia.

1/3 of Macedonian Greeks are Pontian.

[Trun]

Baltic high score is related to slavic migration, from the pure slavs who came from northeast europe. The Indo-european realm was todays southern ukraine. Indo-european influence is more related to the north atlantic score.

If it was so, it wouldn't peak in Lithuanians, who aren't even Slavs. North Atlantic is rather Mesolithic hunters (Brana).

[Kastrioti1443]

1/3 of Macedonian Greeks are Pontian.

Not really, more like 1/5. However they are more ''greek'' than mainland greeks historically.
Do you know for example that hellander here is a from a region whch was the core of the vlachs in southern balkans, and accroding to you he is more greek than the one of pontus who have always spoken greek.

[HellLander87]

Nice thread, how are their Eutest v2 results like?
It's kind of tedious to run them again.
Here are the eu test v2 results for the macedonian person.

North_Sea 15.50%
Atlantic 14.09%
Baltic 14.64%
Eastern_Euro 10.38%
West_Med 14.69%
West_Asian 7.90%
East_Med 21.11%
Red_Sea 1.41%
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.28%
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[Queen B]

1/3 of Macedonian Greeks are Pontian.
:picard2:
What the fuck are you talking about ?
The population of Pontians that came to the WHOLE GREECE was 240.000 :picard2:

[Sikeliot]

:picard2:
What the fuck are you talking about ?
The population of Pontians that came to the WHOLE GREECE was 240.000 :picard2:

As someone who doesn't believe Greeks are Near Eastern why do you defend Pontians as "pure" Greeks (when they cluster near Georgians and Armenians)?

Pontians may have spoken Greek since forever but their genetics are not pure Greek.

[Trun]

The population of Pontians that came to the WHOLE GREECE was 240.000 :picard2:

This population should have increased for so many years probably.

[Sikeliot]

This population should have increased for so many years probably.

Yes.

Either way the purest Greeks should be islanders, not Pontians. Islanders were isolated, Pontians were not.

[Queen B]

As someone who doesn't believe Greeks are Near Eastern why do you defend Pontians as "pure" Greeks (when they cluster near Georgians and Armenians)?
Pontians may have spoken Greek since forever but their genetics are not pure Greek.
Did I ever spoke about Purenes??
Did I ever made any reference to their pureness or lack of it?
I debated your numbers, which are laughable.

This population should have increased for so many years probably.
Increased, probably. Tripled or quadrapled, defenately NOT.

[Casandrinos]

:picard2:
What the fuck are you talking about ?
The population of Pontians that came to the WHOLE GREECE was 240.000 :picard2:

He probably isn't aware of Mikrasiates -who were the majority of refugees- and calls everybody Pontian.

[Sikeliot]

Well many Pontians are genetically mixed now with mainland Greeks, but if a Greek is scoring 10-20% more West Asian or East Med than average, it might mean one of their grandparents was Pontic. It only makes sense, no? Those numbers don't just spring up out of nowhere.. look at the results on the previous page.

[Kastrioti1443]

As someone who doesn't believe Greeks are Near Eastern why do you defend Pontians as "pure" Greeks (when they cluster near Georgians and Armenians)?

Pontians may have spoken Greek since forever but their genetics are not pure Greek.

Can you explain what is a pure greek gene to you?

[Sikeliot]

Can you explain what is a pure greek gene to you?

Those who are not genetically clustering outside of Europe, like Pontians and Cypriots do.

[Sikeliot]

He probably isn't aware of Mikrasiates -who were the majority of refugees- and calls everybody Pontian.

Who are they? I actually want to know because if I am speaking ignorantly I would like to fix that.

If they are Asia Minor Greeks who are not Pontian, then they are similar to islanders, no? Pontians and Cypriots are the outliers for Greeks.

[Queen B]

He probably isn't aware of Mikrasiates -who were the majority of refugees- and calls everybody Pontian.
I guess so.
Trapezounta f.e with Smyrne have over 1.400 klm distance :lol:
(More than 4 times the Thessaloniki-Athens route :lol:)

[Sikeliot]

I guess so.
Trapezounta f.e with Smyrne have over 1.400 klm distance :lol:
(More than 4 times the Thessaloniki-Athens route :lol:)

But Pontians are the ones who are genetic outliers, not Asia Minor Greeks. Want to see pure Pontian results? They will surprise you.

[Trun]

Here it is explained about refugees (for Sikeliot):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_refugees

[Casandrinos]

Who are they? I actually want to know because if I am speaking ignorantly I would like to fix that.

If they are Asia Minor Greeks who are not Pontian, then they are similar to islanders, no? Pontians and Cypriots are the outliers for Greeks.

Yes Asia Minor Greeks from Western Turkey mostly ... not Pontians

Judging by the looks they are close to them.

[Queen B]

But Pontians are the ones who are genetic outliers, not Asia Minor Greeks. Want to see pure Pontian results? They will surprise you.

Do you UNDERSTAND what I'm talking about or NOT?:picard2:

Let me be clear:

The Pontians that came to Greece were 240.000. And they were actually distributed around, not only went to Macedonia.

Macedonia perfecture atm has a population of 2.400.000
Claiming that 1/3 of the population of Macedonia is Pontic isn't making any sense.

CAPICHE????????????????

[HellLander87]

But Pontians are the ones who are genetic outliers, not Asia Minor Greeks. Want to see pure Pontian results? They will surprise you.
Also West coast minor asians have significant mainland Greek ancestry from 18th-19th century.

[Sikeliot]

Do you UNDERSTAND what I'm talking about or NOT?:picard2:

Let me be clear:

The Pontians that came to Greece were 240.000. And they were actually distributed around, not only went to Macedonia.

Macedonia perfecture atm has a population of 2.400.000
Claiming that 1/3 of the population of Macedonia is Pontic isn't making any sense.

CAPICHE????????????????


Yes. So my estimate was wrong numerically.
But my estimate could not have been incorrect in the sense that a Greek with a much higher West Asian score is probably part Pontic.

[Sikeliot]

Here is a woman who is 3/4 Cretan, 1/4 Anatolian Greek. She is very close to Sicilianu101 and paksaltopam's grandmother, except with a little more "West Asian" probably due to her Asia Minor ancestry. But she also has much more Baltic than a Sicilian, at 10%.

She comes up like 70% Cypriot, 30% Central European.

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.44
2 West_Med 19.49
3 West_Asian 16.82
4 North_Atlantic 14.42
5 Baltic 10.48
6 Red_Sea 6.25
7 Oceanian 0.45
8 South_Asian 0.32
9 East_Asian 0.32
10 Northeast_African 0.02

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.8% Cyprian + 28.2% Austrian @ 1.26
2 73.1% Cyprian + 26.9% East_German @ 1.32
3 87.3% Central_Greek + 12.7% Iranian_Jewish @ 1.7
4 87.3% Central_Greek + 12.7% Kurdish_Jewish @ 1.7
5 86.3% Central_Greek + 13.7% Lebanese_Druze @ 1.77
6 83.3% Central_Greek + 16.7% Lebanese_Muslim @ 1.8
7 59.8% Cyprian + 40.2% Romanian @ 1.85
8 86.7% Central_Greek + 13.3% Lebanese_Christian @ 1.87
9 64.3% Cyprian + 35.7% Serbian @ 1.88
10 87.2% Central_Greek + 12.8% Assyrian @ 1.92
11 84.6% Central_Greek + 15.4% Syrian @ 1.97
12 58.3% Greek_Thessaly + 41.7% Cyprian @ 2
13 86.5% Central_Greek + 13.5% Samaritan @ 2.04
14 87.1% Central_Greek + 12.9% Palestinian @ 2.06
15 88.2% Central_Greek + 11.8% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.08
16 86.9% Central_Greek + 13.1% Jordanian @ 2.1
17 70.7% Cyprian + 29.3% Hungarian @ 2.14
18 81.6% Central_Greek + 18.4% Cyprian @ 2.22
19 56.8% Cyprian + 43.2% Bulgarian @ 2.37
20 63.2% Greek_Thessaly + 36.8% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.4

[Sikeliot]

I am also getting a Sicilian result from Agrigento to compare to these too.

[Trun]

Averages according to K13 spreadsheet.

Bul Gre-Centr Gre-Thess Rom Srb
North Atlantic 21,75 16,86 19,12 24,37 27,10
Baltic 24,06 10,36 16,32 24,49 27,32
West Med 17,91 21,47 20,62 17,09 15,84
West Asian 11,91 15,44 11,87 11,28 9,37
East Med 20,12 29,25 25,40 18,04 15,63

[Sikeliot]

I don't know where the Greek_Center cluster is from since it is nothing like any mainland Greek result, but is similar to islanders.

[cally]

I think the Baltic component Greeks have isn't necessarily that high (some extremes of course). It's just variance like how East Med varies significantly in Albanians (20 vs 28). Overall Greeks and Albanians are similar with Albanians having slightly less Baltic and higher west med/ Atlantic on average.

[Sikeliot]

Not sure if anyone has K15 results but here is a Sicilian from Palermo province (Corleone). He is the most "northern" Sicilian I have seen genetically, but he still has about half West Asian.

Not Balkan but we can see how it compares.

I am trying to get his K13.

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 23.27
2 Atlantic 16.81
3 West_Med 16.77
4 West_Asian 14.45
5 North_Sea 10.12
6 Red_Sea 5.92
7 Baltic 5.73
8 Eastern_Euro 4.07
9 Sub-Saharan 1.55
10 Siberian 1.31


Using 1 population approximation:
1 Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.408
2 West_Sicilian @ 6.042
3 Central_Greek @ 6.046
4 East_Sicilian @ 6.077
5 Greek @ 8.051
6 Ashkenazi @ 8.223
7 Tuscan @ 8.381
8 South_Italian @ 8.490
9 Greek_Thessaly @ 9.683
10 Italian_Jewish @ 13.260
207 iterations.



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Abruzzo +50% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.408
2 50% Assyrian +50% Southwest_French @ 3.959
3 50% Italian_Abruzzo +50% West_Sicilian @ 3.982
4 50% East_Sicilian +50% Italian_Abruzzo @ 4.060
5 50% Kurdish_Jewish +50% Southwest_French @ 4.083
6 50% Central_Greek +50% Tuscan @ 4.143
7 50% Central_Greek +50% Italian_Abruzzo @ 4.145
8 50% Greek +50% Italian_Abruzzo @ 4.329
9 50% Assyrian +50% Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.334
10 50% East_Sicilian +50% Tuscan @ 4.390
21528 iterations.


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Italian +25% Sephardic_Jewish +25% Turkish @ 2.687
2 50% East_Sicilian +25% Southwest_French +25% Turkish @ 2.753
3 50% Tuscan +25% Turkish +25% West_Sicilian @ 2.797
4 50% East_Sicilian +25% Spanish_Aragon +25% Turkish @ 2.825
5 50% East_Sicilian +25% Spanish_Valencia +25% Turkish @ 2.843
6 50% East_Sicilian +25% Spanish_Cantabria +25% Turkish @ 2.858
7 50% North_Italian +25% Algerian_Jewish +25% Turkish @ 2.891
8 50% Central_Greek +25% Spanish_Aragon +25% Turkish @ 2.909
9 50% Tuscan +25% Turkish +25% Tuscan @ 2.920
10 50% Central_Greek +25% Lebanese_Muslim +25% Southwest_French @ 2.925
1113131 iterations.



Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Greek + Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Cantabria + Turkish @ 2.546
2 Greek + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Cantabria + Turkish @ 2.561
3 Algerian_Jewish + Central_Greek + Southwest_French + Turkish @ 2.583
4 Central_Greek + Italian_Jewish + Southwest_French + Turkish @ 2.589
5 Greek_Thessaly + Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon + Turkish @ 2.596
6 Greek_Thessaly + Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Cantabria + Turkish @ 2.598
7 Ashkenazi + South_Italian + Southwest_French + Turkish @ 2.607
8 Central_Greek + Spanish_Extremadura + Turkish + West_Sicilian @ 2.607
9 Algerian_Jewish + Greek + Spanish_Cantabria + Turkish @ 2.614
10 Greek_Thessaly + Sephardic_Jewish + Southwest_French + Turkish @ 2.627
11 Algerian_Jewish + Italian_Abruzzo + Southwest_French + Turkish @ 2.630
12 Georgian_Jewish + Greek + Spanish_Cantabria + West_Sicilian @ 2.634
13 Cyprian + Southwest_French + Turkish + Tuscan @ 2.648
14 Ashkenazi + Georgian_Jewish + Southwest_French + Tuscan @ 2.653
15 Cyprian + North_Italian + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Turkish @ 2.667
16 Ashkenazi + Assyrian + Southwest_French + Tuscan @ 2.669
17 Algerian_Jewish + Greek_Thessaly + Spanish_Aragon + Turkish @ 2.671
18 Greek_Thessaly + Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Turkish @ 2.675
19 Algerian_Jewish + Greek_Thessaly + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Turkish @ 2.680
20 North_Italian + North_Italian + Sephardic_Jewish + Turkish @ 2.687

[HellLander87]

I asked polako about the thessalian and central Greek samples.He said they are academic samples.Also they have a range from being "basically bulgarian to almost sicilian".
My uncle scores for example scores like 77% Greek thessaly+23% dutch.Polako said such results are very similar to some of the sample but not the most typical.
If ABF comes back again I ll post the original message.

[Trun]

Do you have any info from which towns the Bulgarian samples are?

[HellLander87]

Do you have any info from which towns the Bulgarian samples are?
nope.I can find as many bulgarian samples I want but I can't know their exact origins.

[Trun]

nope.I can find as many bulgarian samples I want but I can't know their exact origins.

Try to find some more then please.

[Sikeliot]

I asked polako about the thessalian and central Greek samples.He said they are academic samples.Also they have a range from being "basically bulgarian to almost sicilian".

I think this is what shows. Which means that they range from being similar to far northern Greeks, to being similar to islanders.

[HellLander87]

Polako I would like to ask you a bit about the Greek_Thessaly and Central_Greek samples.Are these samples from people that submitted results or some other source?
Are those people native Thessalians and central Greeks or just living there?
I am full Thessalian myself and I have some results that deviate quite significantly from the average so much as having such results at k13 oracle.
15 77.2% Greek_Thessaly + 22.8% South_Dutch @ 3.01
16 75.9% Tuscan + 24.1% Ukrainian @ 3.04
17 74.2% Greek_Thessaly + 25.8% French @ 3.09
18 82.1% Greek_Thessaly + 17.9% Southwest_English @ 3.13

If the sample is from 100% native thessalians it seems there is quite a spread among thessalians.

They're academic samples.

You've very similar to some of them, but not to the most typical ones. There's actually quite a range among them, from basically Bulgarian to almost Sicilian.

[HellLander87]

^^ he didn't answer at "Are those people native Thessalians and central Greeks or just living there?"
Maybe academic samples are just samples gathered from a hospital or something without paying attention to the origin of the persons.

[Mortimer]

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 17.28
2 West_Med 16.32
3 Baltic 16.28
4 East_Med 15.58
5 West_Asian 15.39
6 South_Asian 13.21
7 Red_Sea 2.72
8 East_Asian 2.08
9 Oceanian 1.15


--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_Thessaly @ 16.668
2 Bulgarian @ 17.072
3 Romanian @ 17.528
4 Italian_Abruzzo @ 20.450
5 Serbian @ 20.602
6 Central_Greek @ 20.612
7 East_Sicilian @ 21.493
8 West_Sicilian @ 22.152
9 Tuscan @ 22.207
10 Moldavian @ 23.635
204 iterations.



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Afghan_Tadjik +50% North_Italian @ 11.011
2 50% Afghan_Pashtun +50% North_Italian @ 11.165
3 50% North_Italian +50% Tadjik @ 11.252
4 50% Tadjik +50% Tuscan @ 11.795
5 50% Afghan_Tadjik +50% Spanish_Galicia @ 11.927
6 50% Afghan_Tadjik +50% Portuguese @ 12.019
7 50% Greek_Thessaly +50% Tadjik @ 12.088
8 50% North_Italian +50% Pathan @ 12.093
9 50% Afghan_Pashtun +50% Tuscan @ 12.143
10 50% Afghan_Pashtun +50% Portuguese @ 12.224
20910 iterations.



Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Central_Greek +25% Brahmin_UP +25% Croatian @ 3.280
2 50% Bulgarian +25% Gujarati +25% Tuscan @ 3.303
3 50% Bulgarian +25% Brahmin_UP +25% West_Sicilian @ 3.352
4 50% Bulgarian +25% Brahmin_UP +25% Central_Greek @ 3.446
5 50% Romanian +25% Bangladeshi +25% Central_Greek @ 3.454
6 50% Bulgarian +25% Bangladeshi +25% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.485
7 50% Bulgarian +25% Brahmin_UP +25% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.517
8 50% Bulgarian +25% Gujarati +25% West_Sicilian @ 3.528
9 50% Bulgarian +25% Kshatriya +25% Tuscan @ 3.560
10 50% Bulgarian +25% Brahmin_UP +25% East_Sicilian @ 3.573
1414083 iterations.



Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Iranian_Jewish + La_Brana-1 + Punjabi_Jat + Sardinian @ 2.941
2 Brahmin_UP + Georgian_Jewish + La_Brana-1 + Sardinian @ 3.073
3 Assyrian + La_Brana-1 + Punjabi_Jat + Sardinian @ 3.085
4 Kurdish_Jewish + La_Brana-1 + Punjabi_Jat + Sardinian @ 3.221
5 La_Brana-1 + Lebanese_Muslim + Punjabi_Jat + Sardinian @ 3.236
6 Brahmin_UP + Central_Greek + Central_Greek + Croatian @ 3.280
7 Bulgarian + Bulgarian + Gujarati + Tuscan @ 3.303
8 Brahmin_UP + Bulgarian + Bulgarian + West_Sicilian @ 3.352
9 Central_Greek + Gujarati + Moldavian + Tuscan @ 3.355
10 Brahmin_UP + Central_Greek + Greek_Thessaly + Moldavian @ 3.371
11 Brahmin_UP + Cyprian + North_Italian + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.374
12 Brahmin_UP + Central_Greek + Moldavian + Tuscan @ 3.376
13 Brahmin_UP + Central_Greek + Croatian + West_Sicilian @ 3.379
14 Brahmin_UP + Bulgarian + Central_Greek + Romanian @ 3.407
15 Algerian_Jewish + North_Italian + Sindhi + Ukrainian @ 3.410
16 Brahmin_UP + Cyprian + North_Italian + Ukrainian @ 3.417
17 Estonian + Iranian_Jewish + Punjabi_Jat + Sardinian @ 3.418
18 Brahmin_UP + Greek_Thessaly + Moldavian + West_Sicilian @ 3.431
19 Brahmin_UP + Greek_Thessaly + Moldavian + South_Italian @ 3.432
20 Brahmin_UP + Croatian + Greek_Thessaly + South_Italian @ 3.442

[HellLander87]

Try to find some more then please.
ok here are two more +a romanian.

North_Atlantic 23.70%
Baltic 20.00%
West_Med 18.57%
West_Asian 13.66%
East_Med 19.19%
Red_Sea 3.03%
South_Asian 0.69%
East_Asian 0.91%
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.26%

North_Atlantic 18.76%
Baltic 26.86%
West_Med 21.00%
West_Asian 11.57%
East_Med 17.60%
Red_Sea 2.07%
South_Asian -
East_Asian 1.50%
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.64%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Romanian
North_Atlantic 24.85%
Baltic 28.57%
West_Med 14.73%
West_Asian 8.73%
East_Med 17.58%
Red_Sea 0.17%
South_Asian 0.59%
East_Asian 1.10%
Siberian 2.69%
Amerindian 0.97%
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[Sikeliot]

3 new Sicilians for comparison to the Greeks. Now the first result is much more Greek-like, while the second has higher North African, SSA, Red Sea, etc. The third comes from a Lombard town and has lower East Med and higher NW European, but more of the non-European elements (Red Sea, West Asian).

#1: Ragusa province, eastern Sicily:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 32.45
2 West_Med 19.36
3 North_Atlantic 17.44
4 West_Asian 15.59
5 Baltic 8.35
6 Red_Sea 5.3
7 Northeast_African 0.61
8 Oceanian 0.54
9 Amerindian 0.36


#2: Trapani and Agrigento provinces, western Sicily:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 29.79
2 West_Med 22.81
3 North_Atlantic 19.17
4 West_Asian 11.9
5 Baltic 6.31
6 Red_Sea 6.29
7 South_Asian 1.39
8 Sub-Saharan 1.33
9 Northeast_African 1


Palermo, western Sicily:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 23.72
2 West_Med 21.18
3 North_Atlantic 19.93
4 West_Asian 15.27
5 Baltic 9.16
6 Red_Sea 6.05
7 Sub-Saharan 1.66
8 Siberian 1.49
9 South_Asian 0.96
10 Northeast_African 0.43
11 Amerindian 0.09
12 East_Asian 0.05

[Sikeliot]

One more Sicilian result.. from Palermo province. I think it's clear now that finding a result to match a mainland Balkanian is not likely.

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 33.88
2 West_Med 23.05
3 North_Atlantic 17.23
4 West_Asian 12.73
5 Baltic 6.62
6 Red_Sea 4.79
7 Northeast_African 0.73
8 Sub-Saharan 0.42
9 Oceanian 0.29
10 Amerindian 0.27