Study : Spaniards not darker than other europeans

[Amapola]

I mean mappers aka cartographs! :icon_lol:

You mean John then. :rolleyes:

[Henry]

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4217/wtfsj.jpg

So much for the master race.

I never said they were the master race. I just pointed out who i think is white and who isnt so white. I'm not racist. I think if anything the people who refuse to accept that they're on the darker side of Europeans are the real racist ones dont you agree? And how come you wrote WTF on the map?

[Amapola]

I never said they were the master race. I just pointed out who i think is white and who isnt so white. I'm not racist. I think if anything the people who refuse to accept that they're on the darker side of Europeans are the real racist ones dont you agree? And how come you wrote WTF on the map?

John, don't you get tired of being the constant target of mockery in the few internet Fora you are not banned from yet? :rolleyes: :)

[Henry]

John, don't you get tired of being the constant target of mockery in the few internet Fora you are not banned from yet? :rolleyes: :)

Dont you ever get tired of running away from yourself?

[Murphy]

I never said they were the master race.

I never said you said that they were the master race.


I just pointed out who i think is white and who isnt so white.

I know. I agree with you. Spaniards are not "white". Quite frankly, I hope they do not want to be "white" either. But they are European.


I'm not racist.

For some reason, I don't believe that.


I think if anything the people who refuse to accept that they're on the darker side of Europeans are the real racist ones dont you agree?

Not really. I believe that they argue against the claims that they are on the "darker side of Europeans" not out of a racial complex, but out of a desire to set the facts straight.


And how come you wrote WTF on the map?

It's highlighted by the big circle around it.

[Murphy]

Dont you ever get tired of running away from yourself?

Don't mess with Alana. I and Osweo will hunt you down and break your legs.

[Amapola]

Dont you ever get tired of running away from yourself?

Uh oh! You liked how I divided myself into two, right? I can do it again if you like. I need a bit more of alcohol though, I can only do it when I get drunk.

:D:

[Henry]

I know. I agree with you. Spaniards are not "white". Quite frankly, I hope they do not want to be "white" either. But they are European.


Not really. I believe that they argue against the claims that they are on the "darker side of Europeans" not out of a racial complex, but out of a desire to set the facts straight.




So if you think they arent white then how could they be "setting the facts straight" about not being one of the darkest Europeans?

[Murphy]

So if you think they arent white then how could they be "setting the facts straight" about not being one of the darkest Europeans?

"White" is an Anglo-American socio-cultural phenomenon. That is why Spaniards are not "white".

[Pallantides]

And how come you wrote WTF on the map?

Don't you notice the error?

[Matritensis]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4070/4390912153_8d689ff765.jpg

Hahaha! Finland is not white either? :clap2:

[Comte Arnau]

Hahaha! Finland is not white either? :clap2:

That's because he doesn't only mistake Norway for Sweden, he also mistakes Finland for Italy. :D

[Osweo]

Hahaha! Finland is not white either? :clap2:
Mika's really taken it to heart, knowing what a respected authority 'Henry' is in anthropological circles... :(
http://www.virginmedia.com/images/hakkinen-crying.jpg
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00754/Hakkinen_350x420_754181a.jpg

[Ibericus]

So, we have to believe in a map where Sweden is located in Norway and Norway is located in Sweden. You are a sick mind.

[Ibericus]

I can't believe this nut-job is still not banned :confused:

[Puddle of Mudd]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4070/4390912153_8d689ff765.jpg

"Whiteness"

^ Proper scientific term.

[Comte Arnau]

"On the fence" is an even more scientific term, in my opinion. Your whiteness depends on your ability to jump the fence.

http://www.thetoptensite.com/images/stefka_kostadinova.jpg
This Bulgarian woman has almost succeeded in her acquisition of whiteness.

[Amapola]

"Whiteness"

^ Proper scientific term.

Not even "scientific", but risible.

[Henry]

That's because he doesn't only mistake Norway for Sweden, he also mistakes Finland for Italy. :D

Alright i'll explain why Finland is in red and Italy isnt. We all know that Finland and Italy are both blond but the mongolianess of Finland caused it to be in red while Italy doesnt have that monglianess so its not red.

[Grumpy Cat]

So, we have to believe in a map where Sweden is located in Norway and Norway is located in Sweden. You are a sick mind.

HAHA. I just noticed that!

[Guapo]

Alright i'll explain why Finland is in red and Italy isnt. We all know that Finland and Italy are both blond but the mongolianess of Finland caused it to be in red while Italy doesnt have that monglianess so its not red.

:lol00002: Classic. So what's you other username on the Apricity? :D :D

[Stefan]

Alright i'll explain why Finland is in red and Italy isnt. We all know that Finland and Italy are both blond but the mongolianess of Finland caused it to be in red while Italy doesnt have that monglianess so its not red.

http://www.demotivatorblog.com/wp-content/uploads/yapb_cache/3676323819_34f9e58c6a_o.15clu048cb6ssss84wkcko0og. ap2qhjyqp08cgc0c80ss4cco4.th.jpeg

[Henry]

The Map = http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_48/114295828118lfmc.jpg

[poiuytrewq0987]

HAHA. I just noticed that!

He's right, we're wrong. Norway IS Sweden, Sweden IS Norway. Where in the world did we get the idea that Norway is not Sweden and vice versa?

[poiuytrewq0987]

The Map = http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_48/114295828118lfmc.jpg

http://demotivationalblog.com/demotivational/2008/08/retards-we-all-know-one.jpg

[Henry]

He's right, we're wrong. Norway IS Sweden, Sweden IS Norway. Where in the world did we get the idea that Norway is not Sweden and vice versa?

It was a last minute mistake. So what? How many points are you gonna take away. I did notice it when it was all finished up but it wasnt worth correcting cause i already uploaded it. And anway i was counting on the fact that the racist people in denial about themselves from countries in red or orange would be too busy staring in horror to notice that small mistake

[poiuytrewq0987]

It was a last minute mistake. So what? How many points are you gonna take away. I did notice it when it was all finished up but it wasnt worth correcting cause i already uploaded it. And anway i was counting on the fact that the racist people in denial about themselves from countries in red or orange would be too busy staring in horror to notice that small mistake

The map is based on what facts? Your facts? This map wouldn't last a single second in the scientific community.

[Osweo]

Monglianess...
classic... :rotfl:

[Henry]

The map is based on what facts? Your facts? This map wouldn't last a single second in the scientific community.

Here we go again asking for proof when you know anything i say to you your not gonna accept simply out of desperation. But anyway you want the recipe for how i made my map?

Alright first what i've started off here with is a bag of flour facts which i've just been sifting so that no lies could get through. Once its all been sifted through, the accurate flour facts in the bowl are gonna be the base of our map recipe
http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/ITS/ITS255/flour-sifted-bowl_~itf159046.jpg

Ok now i'm gonna add some Science Syrup about enough so that it binds everything together with logic. Be careful not to add too much or its gonna get too logicy and it might start overriding itself. So just pour that in
http://thumb15.shutterstock.com.edgesuite.net/display_pic_with_logo/62405/62405,1158507634,2/stock-photo-syrup-pouring-from-a-bottle-isolated-over-a-white-background-1855078.jpg

Next we have some History Honey which we're just gonna add in so that it interacts with the rest of the ingredients to make sure everything is consistent to everything that has happend so far.
http://www.sxc.hu/pic/m/g/ga/gabrielhoy/511885_honey_jar.jpg

And finally we're gonna add a pinch of Common Sense Salt. This is simply gonna bring everything together and just make sure everything is right
http://www.bikernet.com/news/images/PhotoID20178.jpg

[Don]

In summer most of the northern europeans are darker than local spaniards.

And they seem quite proud of that.


The reason? : SUN

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rbbjU0aEDn8/R9hEmSd2XnI/AAAAAAAAAQ0/69rTkE00tH0/s400/20060324203314-sol.jpg

[Grumpy Cat]

You know some people wouldn't consider me "white" and I don't give a shit.

[Guapo]

You know some people wouldn't consider me "white" and I don't give a shit.

That type of nonsense doesn't exist in Canada, only in the U.S. and Latin America.

[Grumpy Cat]

That type of nonsense doesn't exist in Canada, only in the U.S. and Latin America.

Actually, one insult hurled at members of my ethnic group in the 1960s was "speak white".


But anyways, as far as I am concerned, terms like "white" are only useful when describing what someone looks like. For example, when someone broke into my place and I reported it to the police, I told them it was a "white male".

[Ibericus]

You know some people wouldn't consider me "white" and I don't give a shit.
It doesn't matter people's opinion, they are not any authority on the subject, there are very ignorant people, here in this forum we have some examples...
White is just a term to describe Europids.

[Comte Arnau]

White is certainly an American construct. But black too, as most Americans consider black people who would be considered mixed elsewhere. Not to mention that many still believe there is such thing as a Hispanic race.

When used in Europe, white is a synonym of Europid most of the times, at least in real life. And there are still other contexts in other places. In Mauritania, a Moor is white.

[Henry]

White is certainly an American construct. But black too, as most Americans consider black people who would be considered mixed elsewhere. Not to mention that many still believe there is such thing as a Hispanic race.

When used in Europe, white is a synonym of Europid most of the times, at least in real life. And there are still other contexts in other places. In Mauritania, a Moor is white.

If its any consolation i'm sure you Spaniards would be considered white in countries like Haiti where the people are as dark as can be

[Comte Arnau]

If its any consolation i'm sure you Spaniards would be considered white in countries like Haiti where the people are as dark as can be

Thanks for your concern, man. But allow me to rely more on the opinion of my European fellows than on someone's who seems to have seen Europe in movies. Do not think I underestimate your efforts, on the contrary, I'm convinced your maps will be highly appreciated one day. You're just too advanced for this time.

[manu]

No, it's not important for me, it is just a Study :coffee: that kinda breaks the stereotype of spaniards being darker. I've lived in France, and I don't see any difference between spaniards and French..
I had the same impression watching that one spanish film called El Orfanato: the main carachters and the extra are pred. fair complexioned and brown haired just like I imagine French to be.

[alnortedelsur]

It honestly doesn't matter - no amount of scientific "proof" will remove the fact that Spaniards look greasy and swarthy.

Lets put it this way: No amount of SCIENTIFIC PROOF will remove stupid stereotypes from the thick heads of uneducated and narrow minded retards like you.

[alnortedelsur]

Why is it that anytime this subject is discussed anywhere online its usually only Spaniards that say Spaniards arent any darker and more mediterranean than French and Italians but yet theres barely any non-spaniards that come in and defend Spaniards? Just look at the people in this thread. Falkata, Iberia, and now Matritensis. Why hasnt a non-Spaniard stepped in and said no your wrong theres not much of a difference?

That's a natural response if we take into account how many times we're depicted as swarthy and "gypsy looking" by a bunch of IGNORANT people that never in their miserable life have set a foot in Spain. We're just feed up of the ridiculous Hollywood cliches about us.

Spaniards:
http://www.unav.es/admision/img/venavernos/img/originales/20090129-BASOKO.jpg
http://www.unav.es/admision/img/venavernos/img/originales/20081118-COLEGIO%20SAN%20CERNIN.jpg
http://www.unav.es/admision/img/venavernos/img/originales/20090120-SAGRADO%20CORAZON.jpg
http://www.unav.es/admision/img/venavernos/img/originales/20081106-COLEGIO%20PINEDA-.jpg
http://www.unav.es/admision/img/venavernos/img/originales/Colegio%20Penalabra.jpg
http://www.unavarra.es/digitalAssets/172/172412_foto2585g.jpg
http://www.unav.es/admision/img/venavernos/img/originales/20081215-COLEGIO%20LARRAONA.jpg
http://www.unav.es/admision/img/venavernos/img/originales/20081009-Entreolivos.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-w6R_C1mqR78/T_illRl-TII/AAAAAAAAHeY/sH3FWbl8WFs/s1600/voluntarias.JPG
http://www.colegiodentistasnavarra.es/documentos/ficheros_eventos/1_L1030292.JPG

[Loki]

Study says :

"Southern Europeans (measures taken from Spaniards) show a skin pigmentation in parts of the body not exposed to the sun similar to that of Northern Europeans and, in some cases, even lighter."
http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/chem...color_2000.pdf

Also :
"All samples are composed of indigenous populations, and readings are taken on areas of the body not exposed to the sun. Higher values indicate lighter skin, and lower values darker skin."

Country and population or area

Observed reflectance at 685 nm

EUROPE

Netherlands
67•37
Germany (Mainz)
66•90
United Kingdom (Northern)
66•10
Spain (Basques)
65•70
United Kingdom (Wales) 65•00
Ireland (Rossmore)
64•75
Spain (Leon)
64•66
Belgium
63•14
United Kingdom (London) 62•30

WEST ASIA

Iraq/Syria (Kurds)
61•12
Turkey
59•15
Israel
58•20
Lebanon
58•20
Jordan
53•00
Saudi Arabia
52•50

NORTH AFRICA

Algeria (Aures)
58•05
Tunisia
56•30
Morrocco
54•85
Libya (Tripoli)
54•40
Libya (Fezzan) 44•00

SOUTH ASIA

India (Northern)
53•26
Pakistan
52•30
India (Southern)
46•70

EAST ASIA

China (Southern)
59•17
Vietnam
55•90
Japan (Northern)
54•90
Philippines (Manila)
54•10
Cambodia
54•00
Japan (Southwest)
53•55
Nepal (Eastern)
50•42

AUSTRO-MELANESIA

Papua New Guinea
35•30
Australia (Darwin)
19•30

AMERICAS

Greenland (Southern)
55•70
Peru (Nunoa)
47•70
Peru (Maranon)
43•05

SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA

South Africa (Hottentot)
46•80
Botswana (San)
42•40
Zaire
33•20
Kenya
32•40
Ethiopia
31•70
Tanzania (Sandewe)
28•90
Namibia
25•55
Cameroon (Fali)
21•50
Mozambique (Chopi)
19•45

[Nina Jablonski and George Chaplin. "The Evolution of Human Skin Coloration". J Hum Evol, 2000; pp. 74-75]
http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/chem...color_2000.pdf

So the Dutch are fairer than the Brits, even the northern ones. Now I understand why I'm lighter-skinned than the locals here :P

[Mans not hot]

Bump.

[Stormer99]

White is certainly an American construct. But black too, as most Americans consider black people who would be considered mixed elsewhere. Not to mention that many still believe there is such thing as a Hispanic race.

When used in Europe, white is a synonym of Europid most of the times, at least in real life. And there are still other contexts in other places. In Mauritania, a Moor is white.

We don't believe in the Hispanic race. Hispanic on the East Coast means people like mulatto mixed Puerto Ricans and Dominicans. Hispanic on the West coast means mestizo Mexicans.

[Alessio]

Oh yeah that's a fact. I'm only half and I have an olive skin. I know some Spaniards from the South who are pretty dark and are a bit similair to some North Africans I know.


Yes, but the tendency to tan easily and heavily and keep that tan even in winter is "Southern trait". To prove that statement they must investigate skins of Southern Europeans, who have been living in Northern countries for years. Even without tan the skin tone differs - Northern Europeans appear to be more pinkish, while more Southern untanned ones have "wax" skin (personal observations).

[Lábaru]

Another study based on academic science, not personal opinions of interested mestizo and confused people.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Won't greasiness affect reflectiveness? Also pink is more "white" than white is. It does not seem like a good way to measure, to me. Not to mention freckles....

Ireland being less white than england is just laugh out loud ridiculous. Let alone spain....

[Smeagol]

We don't believe in the Hispanic race. Hispanic on the East Coast means people like mulatto mixed Puerto Ricans and Dominicans.

No it doesn't. We usually use it to mean Mexicans.

[Stormer99]

No it doesn't. We usually use it to mean Mexicans.

It usually means Mexicans and sometimes Central Americans but this is not the case for people living in New York and New Jersey who are used to seeing more Puerto Ricans and sometimes Dominicans. In Florida it's synonymous with Cuban.

[Tooting Carmen]

Won't greasiness affect reflectiveness? Also pink is more "white" than white is. It does not seem like a good way to measure, to me. Not to mention freckles....

Ireland being less white than england is just laugh out loud ridiculous. Let alone spain....

Agreed. Not only do (presumably native White) Londoners come out the darkest of all the European samples, but apparently they are only slightly lighter than Kurds.:picard1: In addition, since when were Maghrebis - let alone Pakistanis and North Indians - lighter than Jordanians?:picard1: And Filipinos lighter than Japanese people?:picard1: This study defies common sense in so many ways...

[Erronkari]

Anybody has some statistics of other mediterranean countries like Italy, Greece or some balkan ones?

[Lábaru]

Won't greasiness affect reflectiveness? Also pink is more "white" than white is. It does not seem like a good way to measure, to me. Not to mention freckles....

Ireland being less white than england is just laugh out loud ridiculous. Let alone spain....

less melanin=more reflectance people with freckles usually have less melanin, seems the best way to measure skin depigmentation.

[Tropico]

Spaniards are now posting PROOF they are European/White...

This forum does bad things to peoples minds.

[dude]

Spaniards are now posting PROOF they are European/White...

This forum does bad things to peoples minds.

It does. Some white people second guess if they are white, and other non white people become convinced they are white. Funny!!

[Äijä]

When you see blue veins inside you wrist you are with good certainty white, Spanish should know this.

[Tooting Carmen]

It's funny because the first one is Menem, of Syrian descend, and the second is of German descend. Kirschner.

You're right about Menem, but not about Cristina - her surname is from her late husband Nestor Kirchner, while her maiden name is Fernandez.

[Black Wolf]

It does. Some white people second guess if they are white, and other non white people become convinced they are white. Funny!!

I actually I find it all quite funny now lol...Some people here are seriously deranged.

[dude]

I actually I find it all quite funny now lol...Some people here are seriously deranged.

They are. When I first came to this forum the first impression I got is there were a bunch of delusional people. It was so clear I could not resist to start a thread about "who was the most delusional member", LOL.

[Tropico]

When you see blue veins inside you wrist you are with good certainty white, Spanish should know this.

Bull because I see blue veins. Any light skin person can see light veins.

[Äijä]

Bull because I see blue veins. Any light skin person can see light veins.

Could be just tradition but I also think you are very light in your forearm, not even all North Europeans get blue veins.

[Tropico]

Could be just tradition but I also think you are very light in your forearm, not even all North Europeans get blue veins.

I think the pink dick theory works best. If your dick isn't pink, you're brown.

[Äijä]

I think the pink dick theory works best. If your dick isn't pink, you're brown.

Shouldnt the veins in the dick be blue? :coffee:

[Tropico]

Shouldnt the veins in the dick be blue? :coffee:

Anyone with light skin can see blue veins. I can, does not make me white.

[Lábaru]

I think the pink dick theory works best. If your dick isn't pink, you're brown.

Hehe everything for you is about a dick, eh.

[Äijä]

Hehe everything for you is about a dick, eh.

That might be the Sub Saharan part taking over. :rolleyes:

[Lábaru]

Tropico mode Onhttp://cdn.forocoches.com/foro/images/smilies/sisigay.gif
"let's all post our dicks to see who is white"
Tropico mode Offhttp://cdn.forocoches.com/foro/images/smilies/roto2gaydude.gif

[Erronkari]

You're right about Menem, but not about Cristina - her surname is from her late husband Nestor Kirchner, while her maiden name is Fernandez.
Well, the maternal lastname of her is Wilhelm, so I think she is partly german descendent, even I'think her maternal family has jew-german heritage.
Please, don't think I am saying this just discriminating, I just told you I have sephardim and ashkenazim ancestors.

Kirchner was the surname of her husband, right!

[Äijä]

Tropico mode Onhttp://cdn.forocoches.com/foro/images/smilies/sisigay.gif
"let's all post our dicks to see who is white"
Tropico mode Offhttp://cdn.forocoches.com/foro/images/smilies/roto2gaydude.gif

Im more interested in the test for females. :confused:

[MissProvocateur]

Oh please. Spaniards lighter than Northern Europeans? That's obviously not true. Why do you wa t to be paler anyway? You are all European Whites for fuck's sake, what does being paler prove? Nothing. Besides, Spaniards and all southern Europeans, regardless of their skin tone, tan rather easily. I know tgat because all my father's side (spanish, italian, and french) deapite being pale as milk in the winter, they can become brown in a matter of days when the summer comes, and that's something common among all Southern Euros. Denying it is stupid.

[RandoBloom]

Spaniards being compared to Europeans lol :D

Black people also have "white" palms.
http://www.visualphotos.com/photo/1x5741961/black_man%C2%B4s_hands_with_palms_up_K01-390097.jpg
You picked that trait up from them :)

[Tropico]

No. No dick pics please . BUT the pink dick theory is much more accurate than the "can I see my blue veins" thread. You know how many Hispanics (admixed), light skin Aframs, East Asian, etc would pass this test? Lol

[Balmung]

Yes Spaniards are nordic gods. It is said that Spaniards descend from Thor himself.

[MissProvocateur]

Yes Spaniards are nordic gods. It is said that Spaniards descend from Thor himself.

Didn't you hear? Soaniards are also TALLER and BLONDER than Northern Euros. They also have lighter eyes and skin! Stop being jealous you SWARTHY Northerners!!

[Lábaru]

Fufu and Valhalla, I know you are just kids but that should not affect your reading comprehension skills.

Try harder, read the study again.

[Tooting Carmen]

Regarding hair, eyes and skin, Spaniards, like all European groups, have a broad mix of lighter and darker individuals BUT - as with the Portuguese, Italians, Greeks and Balkanites - a higher percentage of the latter and a lower percentage of the former when compared to most other Europeans.

They can range from this:
http://img.theranking.com/card/6725/image/2e5ac40b5a02c5a2c35fe028a266aa91/400.jpg

to this (least tanned photo I could find of her):
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1pk7UGsAPOA/TOQJnG4epPI/AAAAAAAACHM/V-paGbLXP_Q/s400/Z.ISABEL_RODRIGUEZ.jpg

with most being somewhere in between.

[MissProvocateur]

Fufu and Valhalla, I know you are just kids but that should not affect your reading comprehension skills.

Try harder, read the study again.

I am not attacking this thread per se, I read the study perfectly, however, it is implied that "spaniards are whiter!!!!" Which is rather obviously not true. You are all white. Being pale or blond doesn't make you whiter than a med. And I am not attacking OP, I am attacking those spaniards who consistently compare themselves to northern Euros and attempt to make themselves "whiter than italians and all other southern euros!!!" When there is really no such thing.

[Dorian]

you subhuman southern wogs may have the same skin as the rest europeans but you have not the real white-aryan characteristics of the real europeans like this 43630 or this 43631

[Lábaru]

I am not attacking this thread per se, I read the study perfectly, however, it is implied that "spaniards are whiter!!!!" Which is rather obviously not true. You are all white. Being pale or blond doesn't make you whiter than a med. And I am not attacking OP, I am attacking those spaniards who consistently compare themselves to northern Euros and attempt to make themselves "whiter than italians and all other southern euros!!!" When there is really not such a thing.

You look a little crazy, are you in the red days? because I have no idea who you're talking about, you're cheaply generalizing about an entire ethnicity. This thread is about a study, based on science, measured the depigmentation of human skin, that's all. Relax.

[Hadouken]

congrats

[Cristiano viejo]

The funny thing is that Nordic people here, Valhallan for example, take as an example of whiteness to Nordic gods or the same Nordic people. I don´t give a SUPERSHIT about Nordic people. There a lot of brown nordics, so they should not be taken as an example of whiteness rather than other European peoples
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?100322-Classify-Swedish-Musse-Hasselvall
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?100334-Classify-Norwegian-Andreas-Torbgersen

btw Fufuangeli, after seeing the picture of your German grandmother, I don't know nor how dare talk about whiteness of nobody :picard1:

[Raikaswinþs]

Even if we 90% of us were olive-green, would that change anything? We are what we are , a former superpower, arguably the most dominant of all global superpowers throughout time. That is why we are hated. Not because we are more or less pigmented. Pointless troll-food thread

[Lábaru]

Ibericus why do you bother posting this kind of stuff? Even if we 90% of uf were olive-green, would that change anything? We are what we are , a former superpower, arguably the most dominant of all global superpowers throughout time. That is why we are hated. Not because we are more or less pigmented.


This is a study, all studies based on science and not cheaps tabloids are a positive thing, I do not think the Spanish have to hide the results just because a few people with inferiority complex are angry about our condition. With genetics studies is exactly the same, people hate the results of Spain because do not conform to their taste and mental problems but that does not mean we should hide the facts.

[Raikaswinþs]

that's a good point

[-Nicola-]

spaniards are lighter than most (ignorant) people think but darker than it is portrayed here in the forum (mostly by iberians)

[Mehmet]

Study says :


EUROPE

Netherlands
67•37
Germany (Mainz)
66•90
United Kingdom (Northern)
66•10
Spain (Basques)
65•70
United Kingdom (Wales) 65•00
Ireland (Rossmore)
64•75
Spain (Leon)
64•66
Belgium
63•14
United Kingdom (London) 62•30




What does it mean in reality?

Spaniards aren't lighter than Belgians.


It doesn't make sense.
Englishmen and Dutch are the lightest in Europe but in the list they are the furthest to one another.

[Insuperable]

Are Basques the only Spainiards used in a study?

[Tooting Carmen]

Are Basques the only Spainiards used in a study?

No, people from Leon, which is a bit further South (though still much farther North than Madrid) were also used.

[WOOHP]

The funny thing is that Nordic people here, Valhallan for example, take as an example of whiteness to Nordic gods or the same Nordic people. I don´t give a SUPERSHIT about Nordic people. There a lot of brown nordics, so they should not be taken as an example of whiteness rather than other European peoples
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?100322-Classify-Swedish-Musse-Hasselvall
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?100334-Classify-Norwegian-Andreas-Torbgersen

btw Fufuangeli, after seeing the picture of your German grandmother, I don't know nor how dare talk about whiteness of nobody :picard1:
Look here Morisco Gitano, none of the two posted above are ethnically Nordic/Scandinavian.
You, as a Spaniard dare to talk about dark people of other ethnicities? Oh God the irony!
Face it Moor, you wet your pants everytime you find a light Spaniard to post here at the anthro forum for classification.

[Also]

@WOOHP: Do you accept your latin connection to Spaniards?

[WOOHP]

Wonder how accurate this "study" is considering they put native English people from London closer to Kurds than to their fellow countrymen in the North.

Some Iberians here are just like... well a facepalm smiley would explain it better.

[Cristiano viejo]

Mehmet

Spaniards aren't lighter than Belgians.


About pigmentation? of course we are.
Other matter is about percentages of light hair and eyes.


Solin

Are Basques the only Spainiards used in a study?
haha you are very funny, I recognize it :p because you think that Basques are paler than rest of Spaniards xD


WOOOG

Look here Morisco Gitano, none of the two posted above are ethnically Nordic/Scandinavian.

Of course they are. Proof otherwise, Moor.


WOOOG
You, as a Spaniard dare to talk about dark people of other ethnicities? Oh God the irony!
Irony? Look all these Brown-Scandos posted in this forum and cry, inferior being.


WOOOG

Face it Moor, you wet your pants everytime you find a light Spaniard to post here at the anthro forum for classification.
hahah I could be all my life posting light Spaniards.

[InperatoreBT]

It depends ofc.

[Comte Arnau]

spaniards are lighter than most (ignorant) people think but darker than it is portrayed here in the forum (mostly by iberians)

What Iberians are portraying here is the result of a study conducted by non-Iberians using a scientific method explained in the paper.

What other posters are showing here is their disagreement with it by showing reasons that they just take out from their butts.

[Tooting Carmen]

hahah I could be all my life posting light Spaniards.

Lol you do that already. No one except the most retarded and ignorant fools denies that there are a good number of Spaniards with light hair and/or eyes, BUT the proportion is substantially lower than in many other European countries, though they are certainly not the darkest either.

[Äijä]

Even if we 90% of us were olive-green, would that change anything? We are what we are , a former superpower, arguably the most dominant of all global superpowers throughout time. That is why we are hated. Not because we are more or less pigmented. Pointless troll-food thread

I would also put the Spanish before the French as the greatest competition for the British in history.

But in all honesty, you should have beat the British in the imperial game, you had a head start and the Brits dominated in the end.

[Cristiano viejo]

We did. We contributed decisively to that England lost its Thirteen Colonies, to give a small example :p

[Äijä]

We did. We contributed decisively to that England lost its Thirteen Colonies, to give a small example :p

Sure, but not what I ment, you lost the dominance at sea even earlier, Brits basically started as pirates robbing your gold, they should have been taken out then.

Also the irony of kicking out the Jews of Iberia and them going to London, they fleeced out the rest of your wealth, Spain should be much richer than it is.

Could be a combination of the Catholic faith supressing the capitalistic model and lack in the distribution of power in general.

[Empecinado]

Sure, but not what I ment, you lost the dominance at sea even earlier, Brits basically started as pirates robbing your gold, they should have been taken out then.

Also the irony of kicking out the Jews of Iberia and them going to London, they fleeced out the rest of your wealth, Spain should be much richer than it is.


The expulsion of the Jews from Spain had no negative effects over the economy, unlike the expulsion of the Moriscos, that provoked a economical and demographic crisis in the Spanish kingdoms of Aragon and Valencia. Moriscos were industrious in agriculture, craftsmanship and trade, but Jews overall were leechers.


Could be a combination of the Catholic faith supressing the capitalistic model and lack in the distribution of power in general.

Actually the free market economy concept was studied and developed by Spanish theologians, the Austrian economic school is is based largely on his work. This cite was said by F. Hayek, Nobel prize of economy:

“The basic principles of the theory of the competitive market were worked out by the Spanish scholastics of the 16th century and that economic liberalism was not designed by the Calvinists but by the Spanish Jesuits.”

http://www.rebs.ro/article-the_essence_of_the_austrian_school_and_the_concept _of_dynamic_efficiency-85.html

And Spain had a relatevely good distribution of power, with many local freedoms, though increasingly it was dissapearing.

[Äijä]

The expulsion of the Jews from Spain had no negative effects over the economy, unlike the expulsion of the Moriscos, that provoked a economical and demographic crisis in the Spanish kingdoms of Aragon and Valencia. Moriscos were industrious in agriculture, craftsmanship and trade, but Jews overall were leechers.



Actually the free market economy concept was studied and developed by Spanish theologians, the Austrian economic school is is based largely on his work. This cite was said by F. Hayek, Nobel prize of economy:

“The basic principles of the theory of the competitive market were worked out by the Spanish scholastics of the 16th century and that economic liberalism was not designed by the Calvinists but by the Spanish Jesuits.”

http://www.rebs.ro/article-the_essence_of_the_austrian_school_and_the_concept _of_dynamic_efficiency-85.html

And Spain had a relatevely good distribution of power, with many local freedoms, though increasingly it was dissapearing.

Well the Jews did fine in London and it is still the finance and trading capital of Europe, how where they leechers in Spain?
It was Spain leeching gold mines and plantasions with slave labour and still lost all the wealth importing stuff it could have produced itself.

[Ibericus]

Relax people. Im the creator of this thread (well, it was 4 years ago, somebody rescued). I do not think we are "whiter" than northern euros, don't panic. The study is based on "untanned" parts of the body.

[Empecinado]

Well the Jews did fine in London and it is still the finance and trading capital of Europe, how where they leechers in Spain?
It was Spain leeching gold mines and plantasions with slave labour and still lost all the wealth importing stuff it could have produced itself.

Jews were involved in speculative, not productive capital. The peak of Spain in culture, science, economics, global importance...was right after expell the Jews.

And most of gold and silver was never shipped to Spain (only 1/5 went here), it remained in America where was invested to create cities, roads, cathedrals, universities, hospitals...so I would not say it was leeching. About slavery, most of the slave traders were converted Jews (like Monsanto), and in the Middle Ages the biggest slave traders were Jews too.

[Äijä]

Jews were involved in speculative, not productive capital. The peak of Spain in culture, science, economics, global importance...was right after expell the Jews.

And most of gold and silver was never shipped to Spain (only 1/5 went here), it remained in America where was invested to create cities, roads, cathedrals, universities, hospitals...so I would not say it was leeching. About slavery, most of the slave traders were converted Jews (like Monsanto), and in the Middle Ages the biggest slave traders were Jews too.

IMO speculative capital produced British wealth, leading eventually to the industrial revolution.
To me is a surprise if really most of the gold stayed in America, have a link?

[Äijä]

Any links of the types of national budgets Spain had during the empire? Trade balance?
British on occasions went over but usually where balanced, sometimes simple things like this matter in the long run.

[Empecinado]

IMO speculative capital produced British wealth, leading eventually to the industrial revolution.
To me is a surprise if really most of the gold stayed in America, have a link?

Speculative capital is not a real wealth, is just as the name says: especulation. Britain was first a manufacturer center (18th century), then trade center (19th and early 20th century) and finally became financial center (nowadays).

About the gold (actually was mostly silver), the Quinto Real was the royal tax (20%) and this was the percentage of metals flowing to Spain:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinto_Real

Nothing surprising about, Spanish American territories were far richer and developed than Spain itself.

[Alatta]

The funny thing is that Nordic people here, Valhallan for example, take as an example of whiteness to Nordic gods or the same Nordic people. I don´t give a SUPERSHIT about Nordic people. There a lot of brown nordics, so they should not be taken as an example of whiteness rather than other European peoples
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?100322-Classify-Swedish-Musse-Hasselvall
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?100334-Classify-Norwegian-Andreas-Torbgersen

btw Fufuangeli, after seeing the picture of your German grandmother, I don't know nor how dare talk about whiteness of nobody :picard1:


AJAJAAJAJAJAJA

[Lábaru]

Sure, but not what I ment, you lost the dominance at sea even earlier, Brits basically started as pirates robbing your gold, they should have been taken out then.

Also the irony of kicking out the Jews of Iberia and them going to London, they fleeced out the rest of your wealth, Spain should be much richer than it is.

Could be a combination of the Catholic faith supressing the capitalistic model and lack in the distribution of power in general.

Expel the Jews was beneficial for Spain, is a false myth that Spain was prejudiced by its expulsion, in fact, is one of the reason oh why we grew as an empire, because we achieved a very strong ethnic unity.


If we hear the voices defending the negativity of the expulsion of the Jews, then we must also give credibility to say it was a mistake to expel Muslims, as protagonists of the first global empire, I think we did pretty well ourselves without the technology of two centuries later used by the English.

[Yuffayur]

Study says :

"Southern Europeans (measures taken from Spaniards) show a skin pigmentation in parts of the body not exposed to the sun similar to that of Northern Europeans and, in some cases, even lighter."
http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/chem...color_2000.pdf

Also :
"All samples are composed of indigenous populations, and readings are taken on areas of the body not exposed to the sun. Higher values indicate lighter skin, and lower values darker skin."

Country and population or area

Observed reflectance at 685 nm

EUROPE

Netherlands
67•37
Germany (Mainz)
66•90
United Kingdom (Northern)
66•10
Spain (Basques)
65•70
United Kingdom (Wales) 65•00
Ireland (Rossmore)
64•75
Spain (Leon)
64•66
Belgium
63•14
United Kingdom (London) 62•30



Explain better, what's the meaning of the two number ? first and second one ? i've understand higher is the number ,lightest is the people .

[MissProvocateur]

The funny thing is that Nordic people here, Valhallan for example, take as an example of whiteness to Nordic gods or the same Nordic people. I don´t give a SUPERSHIT about Nordic people. There a lot of brown nordics, so they should not be taken as an example of whiteness rather than other European peoples
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?100322-Classify-Swedish-Musse-Hasselvall
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?100334-Classify-Norwegian-Andreas-Torbgersen

btw Fufuangeli, after seeing the picture of your German grandmother, I don't know nor how dare talk about whiteness of nobody :picard1:


Alright you ignorant, my grandmother's father was an OFFICER, Hitler wouldn't have allowed him to marry a women that wasn't deemed as white during the wwii standards, some degree of mingolian acestry doesn't make someone less white, she is rather OBVIOUSLY pred. White. So don't go around tooting your horn when quite clearly you know nothing of my family.

[Cristiano viejo]

Ukko

Sure, but not what I ment, you lost the dominance at sea even earlier,
You are very wrong here. I gather by your comments that are one of those who believes that the episode of the Spanish Armada meant the defeat and the end of the Spanish Empire (when it was really only a defeat within a war finally won by Spain), and you also are one of those who believes in stories of English pirates who robbed constantly the Spanish gold :rolleyes:
Spanish dominance at the seas lasted until the XVIII century.

A little example: between 1627 and 1634 Spanish corsairs, very effective from Dunkerque, sank or captured more than 2.300 enemy ships.


Ukko

Brits basically started as pirates robbing your gold, they should have been taken out then.
Between 1540 and 1650 around 11.000 ships did the journey between Spain and America, of which 519 were lost, most by storms, and only 107 by enemy attacks, the 0.5% of the total losses.

From the book "Tercios de España, la infantería legendaria", pag.106


Ukko

Also the irony of kicking out the Jews of Iberia and them going to London, they fleeced out the rest of your wealth, Spain should be much richer than it is.

Could be a combination of the Catholic faith supressing the capitalistic model and lack in the distribution of power in general.
As my compatriots have mentioned to you, the expulsion of the Jews coincides with the beginning of the Spanish Empire and our best times.



fufuangeli

Alright you ignorant, my grandmother's father was an OFFICER, Hitler wouldn't have allowed him to marry a women that wasn't deemed as white during the wwii standards, some degree of mingolian acestry doesn't make someone less white, she is rather OBVIOUSLY pred. White. So don't go around tooting your horn when quite clearly you know nothing of my family.
Hitler? what does to do Hitler with what we are talking? I don´t care Nazi standards, my God, your grandma has obvious mongol traits. Even you asked for this in a thread. Someone with mongol traits so evident can not consider white, never. Final point.

[MissProvocateur]

You are very wrong here. I gather by your comments that are one of those who believes that the episode of the Spanish Armada meant the defeat and the end of the Spanish Empire (when it was really only a defeat within a war finally won by Spain), and you also are one of those who believes in stories of English pirates who robbed constantly the Spanish gold :rolleyes:
Spanish dominance at the seas lasted until the XVIII century.

A little example: between 1627 and 1634 Spanish corsairs, very effective from Dunkerque, sank or captured more than 2.300 enemy ships.


Between 1540 and 1650 around 11.000 ships did the journey between Spain and America, of which 519 were lost, most by storms, and only 107 by enemy attacks, the 0.5% of the total losses.

From the book "Tercios de España, la infantería legendaria", pag.106


As my compatriots have mentioned to you, the expulsion of the Jews coincides with the beginning of the Spanish Empire and our best times.



Hitler? what does to do Hitler with what we are talking? I don´t care Nazi standards, my God, your grandma has obvious mongol traits. Even you asked for this in a thread. Someone with mongol traits so evident can not consider white, never. Final point.

What are you talking about? It's obvious she's pred. White, most people who classified her didn't even say she had mongol traits. So please shut up. You clearly know nothing about anthropology if you claim my grandmother looks fully mongolian. And even if she WAS, I would still be pred. White myself. Do yourself a favour and stop posting before you keep on making a fool of yourself. And if you couldn't comprehend the connection between the marriage laws in germany during wwii and my ancestry, then you are far too much of an imbecile to even argue with.

[Cristiano viejo]

Pred white? :lol: what does that mean? :lol: your grandma has mongol traits, she is not 100% white. You knew it and for this you asked.

[Lábaru]

Pred white? :lol: what does that mean? :lol: your grandma has mongol traits, she is not 100% white. You knew it and for this you asked.

the funny thing is that the same girl who entered like a bull in a house roof in this thread showing an angry attitude and generalizing against all Spanish ethnic with cheap jokes, because there is a study that says Spaniards are equal pale skin as other Europeans, even North European in a many cases, is now defending the whiteness of her person and her relatives, is this the definition of hypocrite?


What are you talking about? It's obvious she's pred. White, most people who classified her didn't even say she had mongol traits. So please shut up. You clearly know nothing about anthropology if you claim my grandmother looks fully mongolian. And even if she WAS, I would still be pred. White myself. Do yourself a favour and stop posting before you keep on making a fool of yourself. And if you couldn't comprehend the connection between the marriage laws in germany during wwii and my ancestry, then you are far too much of an imbecile to even argue with.

Priceless.

[armenianbodyhair]

I'm still whiter than you.

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

I'm still whiter than you.

My butt is whiter than your CM tits.

[armenianbodyhair]

My butt is whiter than your CM tits.

doubt it lol

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

doubt it lol

battle!

[armenianbodyhair]

battle!
Not drunk enough. :bored:

[MissProvocateur]

Pred white? :lol: what does that mean? :lol: your grandma has mongol traits, she is not 100% white. You knew it and for this you asked.

Her father is white. Pred.white means she looks mainly white with some minor mongol traits (in her case, cheekbones and eyes whe she grew older). So wether you like it or not, I consider myself white, simce the mongolian amcestry was well over 15 generations ago.

[MissProvocateur]

the funny thing is that the same girl who entered like a bull in a house roof in this thread showing an angry attitude and generalizing against all Spanish ethnic with cheap jokes, because there is a study that says Spaniards are equal pale skin as other Europeans, even North European in a many cases, is now defending the whiteness of her person and her relatives, is this the definition of hypocrite?



Priceless.

Am I? So far I am not making any false claims,so no, I'm not a htpochrite, thank you very much.

The post wasn't even meant to be taken seriously in the first place.

[Äijä]

Her father is white. Pred.white means she looks mainly white with some minor mongol traits (in her case, cheekbones and eyes whe she grew older). So wether you like it or not, I consider myself white, simce the mongolian amcestry was well over 15 generations ago.

What mix did she have? Was your grandfather SS or Wermacht?

[Also]

If it was a single ancestor over 15 generations ago it can't be the cause for any "mongoloidness" in her appearence. I think she must be more mongoloid than you think or she happens to look mongoloid shifted but this has nothing to do with some ancestry from 15 generations ago, doesn't fit.

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

You look a little crazy, are you in the red days? because I have no idea who you're talking about, you're cheaply generalizing about an entire ethnicity. This thread is about a study, based on science, measured the depigmentation of human skin, that's all. Relax.

http://www.proyectopv.org/2-verdad/aspectospsicol.htm

[MissProvocateur]

What mix did she have? Was your grandfather SS or Wermacht?

Don't know. All I know is that my grandmother had to change her last name and she barely talks about him. All I know is that he was a "High ranking officer" and that he died in russia, she doesn't talk about it much since it seems to be a very sensitive issue, don't know why.

So far, I know she has German, Nordic, and "Mingolian" ancestry from the "Invasions", she also considers russians mongols, so maybe she has a siberian admixture instead of pure mongolian.

[Äijä]

Don't know. All I know is that my grandmother had to change her last name and she barely talks about him. All I know is that he was a "High ranking officer" and that he died in russia, she doesn't talk about it much since it seems to be a very sensitive issue, don't know why.

So far, I know she has German, Nordic, and "Mingolian" ancestry from the "Invasions", she also considers russians mongols, so maybe she has a siberian admixture instead of pure mongolian.

Why does she not tell if he is dead? You should say you want to know. Where was she born?

[MissProvocateur]

Why does she not tell if he is dead? You should say you want to know. Where was she born?


I don't know, but it's an issue our family tends to avoid altogether. I guess it's the whole "wwii guilt". I can't recall the exact city she was born in, but I know it was somewhere along the Rhine River. It's not Frankfurt though, but somewhere around that area. I'll ask her tomorrow.

[Carlito's Way]

cristiano viejo needs to grow up, hes like 37 years old

[Lábaru]

Am I? So far I am not making any false claims,so no, I'm not a htpochrite, thank you very much.

The post wasn't even meant to be taken seriously in the first place.

You are contradicting a study made by scientists funded with real money showing a very low class with your behavior while you try to convince others that you are white without accepting other opinions. I do not care if you're white or mestizo, I'm interested in real scientific studies, as the one that we teach in this thread.

Yes, you behaved like a hypocrite this time, don't blame me, blame yourself, you're responsible of your acts.

[MissProvocateur]

You are contradicting a study made by scientists funded with real money showing a very low class with your behavior while you try to convince others that you are white without accepting other opinions. I do not care if you're white or mestizo, I'm interested in real scientific studies, as the one that we teach in this thread.

Yes, you behaved like a hypocrite this time, don't blame me, blame yourself, you're responsible of your acts.

How is being part asian mestizo? Are you sure you know the meaning of that term? All I'm saying is that the study may be biased since it was conducted in Spain. That's all.
And the reason I'm not accepting other opinions is because you truly know nothing of my family, and you come in, acting as if you did.
How could my grandmother even be purely asian if her father was a freaking WHITE German!? Her mother had minor asian admixture, but that's it.

[MissProvocateur]

If it was a single ancestor over 15 generations ago it can't be the cause for any "mongoloidness" in her appearence. I think she must be more mongoloid than you think or she happens to look mongoloid shifted but this has nothing to do with some ancestry from 15 generations ago, doesn't fit.

Well then, she may be mongoloid shifted. I know quite a few Nordish members here who look as mongoloid or more, and nobody doubts them when they claim to be fully white.

[Also]

Well then, she may be mongoloid shifted. I know quite a few Nordish members here who look as mongoloid or more, and nobody doubts them when they claim to be fully white.

Maybe they have mongoloid blood too. Butlerking claims finns are 5%~10% mongoloid.

[Ibericus]

How is being part asian mestizo? Are you sure you know the meaning of that term? All I'm saying is that the study may be biased since it was conducted in Spain.
That's not true at all. It's from California Academy of Sciences.

[MissProvocateur]

Maybe they have mongoloid blood too. Butlerking claims finns are 5%~10% mongoloid.

And if I am 10% mongol, what do I care? There's nothing wrong with that.

[Lábaru]

That's not true at all. It's from California Academy of Sciences.

The poor Uruguayan girl has not even looked at the study. She is focused on talking about his German grandmother and whiteness. Classic insecure behavior.

[Cristiano viejo]

fufuangeli



Well then, she may be mongoloid shifted. I know quite a few Nordish members here who look as mongoloid or more, and nobody doubts them when they claim to be fully white.
What? I doubt them, of course I doubt. And many people more.

[Kiyant]

What? I doubt them, of course I doubt. And many people more.

You and 2 other people.......

[Cristiano viejo]

Kyant

You and 2 other people.......
You would like that :thumb001:

And stop pursuing me for all the threads in which I post :thumb001: you are obssesed with me. It mus have been love, as Roxette said ;)

[Kiyant]

You would like that :thumb001:

And stop pursuing me for all the threads in which I post :thumb001: you are obssesed with me. It mus have been love, as Roxette said ;)

Its more like i try to protect yourself from your own non-existance of intelligence so basically im like a streetworker who helps people who are alcoholic or are drug addicted only that you are a spanish nazi and one of the only one in the world who thinks that finns are not european

[Lábaru]

Its more like i try to protect yourself from your own non-existance of intelligence so basically im like a streetworker who helps people who are alcoholic or are drug addicted only that you are a spanish nazi and one of the only one in the world who thinks that finns are not european


The only one speaking here of a nazi is the girl that you give happily the thumb up.

[MissProvocateur]

The only one speaking here of a nazi is the girl that you give happily the thumb up.

Actualyl, I was definding myself from the claims of another user sayung I was nobody to talk about whiteness. So no, it wasn't random.

[Gaijin]

All I'm saying is that the study may be biased since it was conducted in Spain. That's all.

It was conducted by the Americans, Nina G. Jablonski and George Chaplin, in the Department of Anthropology of California in San Francisco.

[Cristiano viejo]

And what is rare about this study? I speak for myself, my areas not exposed to sunlight are unsurpassed white and no Scandinavian or whoever has the skin lighter than me :noidea:

[Tooting Carmen]

And what is rare about this study? I speak for myself, my areas not exposed to sunlight are unsurpassed white and no Scandinavian or whoever has the skin lighter than me :noidea:

The key section is in bold.

[Cristiano viejo]

There are millions of Spaniards with my same skin color. In fact, most.

[Prince Carlo]

The same study also claims that SE Asian countries (Vietnam, Cambodia and Philippines) are lighter than Japan. Not very reliable IMHO.

[Tooting Carmen]

The same study also claims that SE Asian countries (Vietnam, Cambodia and Philippines) are lighter than Japan. Not very reliable IMHO.

And that Pakistanis, North Indians and NW Africans are lighter than Jordanians...

[Mehmet]

Kurds aren't on average lighter than Turks either, even though some individuals could be.

[Tooting Carmen]

Kurds aren't on average lighter than Turks either, even though some individuals could be.

Exactly. The study has so many obvious holes in it...

[B01AB20]

exciting and intredasting thread :p, I suggest users to post pictures of their body parts 'unexposed to sun' so we can judge on real facts :D and not only in scientific papers.

fufu mi amol :(, how the hell did you end up arguing about whiteness with these picky spaniards?, :picard1:. wrong way, when you want to argue with a spaniard I'm your man, and I don't care about a bit of mongoleness here and there.

kyant left alone cristiano or I will call 091, the inquisition telephone number.

[Empecinado]

kyant left alone cristiano or I will call 091, the inquisition telephone number.

Actually it's 016...ahí lo dejo.

[Prince Carlo]

Exactly. The study has so many obvious holes in it...

Yeah like the fact that the study only takes in account the observed skin reflectance at 685 nm. As if light was not formed by tens of thousands of wavelengths.

http://www.pion.cz/_sites/pion/upload/images/a14cf10a5583d19f7cfdebd63cf64382_electromagnetic-spectrum.png

[Ibericus]

The same study also claims that SE Asian countries (Vietnam, Cambodia and Philippines) are lighter than Japan. Not very reliable IMHO.
Only SW Japan, for example North Japan appears lighter than SE Asians.

[Artek]

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/131x148q90/827/a849.jpg

[Fire Haired]

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/131x148q90/827/a849.jpg

That's very funny but its true Iberians have little to no Moorish blood. Their olive skin are from their near eastern farmer ancestry the light skin from hunter gatherers like La Branai1(yes i do think he had light skin)

[Fire Haired]

No, it's not important for me, it is just a Study :coffee: that kinda breaks the stereotype of spaniards being darker. I've lived in France, and I don't see any difference between spaniards and French..

In America most people are from north-west Europe(or from northern Europe period like Poland) and I haven't seen many full blooded south Europeans. I have seen them on TV though I saw a documentary on Italy and I was shocked by how dark and foreign they looked(including facial features). Some were totally brown some were totally white some were in between. I read a passage from an ancient Roman who said we Romans are not as white as Germans and not as dark as Egyptians(talking about pigmentation). I have read multiple writings from Romans from different periods describing the paleness in Germans and Celts as foreign. From the few full blooded Greeks or Italians I have seen in my city(grown up in the same climate) they are definitely darker. I am always surprised by how dark the Spainish and Portuguese soccer teams on TV are and I have seen documentaries about something that has to do with Iberians and I have always noticed they are darker skinned. Where do you think the phrase tall, dark, and handsome comes from? It comes from more northern European women who saw the darkness as foreign in southern Europeans which is why it is in that phrase.

I don't think anyone would argue that southern Europeans are a little darker skinned than northern Europeans. There is definitely a hair and eye color difference which also means south Europeans are darker pigmented. I think the difference is s result of differences in hunter gatherer and farmer(or just near eastern) ancestry.

There is some dark skin in north-west Europeans that I have seen. There is some brown(literally) skin in my family that people were just born with and it is not from tanning.

[B01AB20]

That's very funny but its true Iberians have little to no Moorish blood. Their olive skin are from their near eastern farmer ancestry the light skin from hunter gatherers like La Branai1(yes i do think he had light skin)


la braña hunter-gather, dark skin and blue eyes according to last genetic tests.

http://ep01.epimg.net/sociedad/imagenes/2014/01/26/actualidad/1390768131_840454_1390768229_noticia_normal.jpg


El análisis del ADN de un individuo de hace unos 7.000 años, cuyos restos fueron descubiertos, en 2006, en el yacimiento de La Braña-Arintero (León), indican que tenía los ojos azules, como los europeos actuales, y la piel oscura, como los africanos. Sería un cazador-recolector anterior a la llegada de la agricultura y la ganadería. Un equipo internacional liderado por Carles Lalueza Fox, investigador del Consejo Superior de Investigaciones Científicas (CSIC), ha logrado extraer el material genético de un diente de ese individuo bautizado La Braña 1 y presenta ahora sus resultados en la revista Nature (adelantando en artículo en Internet).

the article in spanish
http://sociedad.elpais.com/sociedad/2014/01/26/actualidad/1390768131_840454.html

he was lactose intolerant too, a real macho man.:cool:

[Prince Carlo]

A documentary about Italy? ;)

Italian cities have been completely overrun by North Africans, Gypos and other brown skins, so I am not surprised. Could you tell me the name of that documentary?

[Fire Haired]

la braña hunter-gather, dark skin and blue eyes according to last genetic tests.

http://ep01.epimg.net/sociedad/imagenes/2014/01/26/actualidad/1390768131_840454_1390768229_noticia_normal.jpg



the article in spanish
http://sociedad.elpais.com/sociedad/2014/01/26/actualidad/1390768131_840454.html

I made a thread about that in case you haven't read it already. The reason I said (yes I do think La Brana-1 had light skin) is because I feel as if I am a minority and people are making assumptions.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?112037-La-Brana-1-had-blue-eyes-dark-skin-dark-hair-and-Y-DNA-C1a2-V20

We don't know what skin color he had. They base it on three mutations that are about as popular in the near east as in Europe. There are other factors to European light skin that have not been discovered. Today hunter gatherer ancestry correlates with paleness and farmer ancestry with darkness.

[gold_fenix]

We don't know what skin color he had. They base it on three mutations that are about as popular in the near east as in Europe. There are other factors to European light skin that have not been discovered. Today hunter gatherer ancestry correlates with paleness and farmer ancestry with darkness.

really we don't know nothing about pigmentation mutation, today now we know even neanderthal had different variations in pigmentation and they were in Europe a lot time

[Fire Haired]

A documentary about Italy? ;)

Italian cities have been completely overrun by North Africans, Gypos and other brown skins, so I am not surprised. Could you tell me the name of that documentary?

Modern day central-north Italian people are the same as Italians were 2,500ybp(except for very very very very minor admixture with Germanic people). There is a good amount of Greek admixture in southern Italy especially Sicily. There is almost no North African, Gypose or whatever ancestry in Italy.

The documentary was named Italy revealed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27WjOXe9SDw

I gurentee anyone could tell the pigmentation difference between the Sardinians(nearly identically genetically to early European farmers Stuttgart and Otzi) and Baltic-Scandinavian people(closest relatives to Mesolithic Europeans and have majority Mesolithic ancestry).

Google images for Swedes, (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Swedish+people&tbm=isch&imgdii=_) Norwegians (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=norwegian+people&spell=1&tbm=isch&imgdii=_), Icelanders (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Iceland+people&tbm=isch&imgdii=_), Finnish (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Finnish+people&tbm=isch&imgdii=_), Sami (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Sami+people&tbm=isch&imgdii=_), Lithuanian (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Lithuanian+people&tbm=isch&imgdii=_), Latvians (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Latvian+people&tbm=isch&imgdii=_), and Estonians.
(https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Estonian+people&tbm=isch&imgdii=_)
Google images for Sardinians (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Sardinian+people&tbm=isch&imgdii=_)(most important), Italians (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Italian+people&tbm=isch&imgdii=_), Spainish (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Spanish+people&spell=1&tbm=isch&imgdii=_), Portuguese (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Portuguese+people&spell=1&tbm=isch&imgdii=_), and Greek (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Greek+people&tbm=isch&imgdii=_).

No one can ignore the hair and eye color differences too. When I was 7 years old my parents told me Mexico was colonized by European people back in like the 1700's and I was shocked because Mexicans don't look white. My conclusion was that Italians colonized Mexico because Italians were darker(I had gone to an all Italian church the week before). No one can ignore the pigmentation differences.

[Fire Haired]

really we don't know nothing about pigmentation mutation, today now we know even neanderthal had different variations in pigmentation and they were in Europe a lot time

I don't really know anything about the Neanderthal stuff just remember hearing rumors they were gingers. I doubt they were and how could they tell without living Neanderthals? I bet Neanderthals ancestors before they left Africa were black skinned like Humans probably were.

[Valerio Tadici]

I will never understand why spanish people:
1. are so ferocius in antropological-identitary forums
2. hate so much italians

mysteries of faith..

[Fire Haired]

I will never understand why spanish people:
1. are so ferocius in antropological-identitary forums
2. hate so much italians

mysteries of faith..

Because this stuff gets personal.

Hispanic people don't like to learn they have a lot of Iberian blood and for most more Iberian blood than Native American or west African. Most European people don't like to learn they have a lot of near eastern ancestry or that our defining features may be very young, most Indian people don't like to learn that their language and religion came from bronze age European invaders, most west European people don't like to learn their main paternal lineage was in the near east just 8,000 years ago. I think some Spainish people don't like to be seen as darker than other Europeans.

[Cristiano viejo]

I will never understand why spanish people:
1. are so ferocius in antropological-identitary forums
2. hate so much italians

mysteries of faith..
Ask to Terronepelli.

[Prince Carlo]

Modern day central-north Italian people are the same as Italians were 2,500ybp(except for very very very very minor admixture with Germanic people). There is a good amount of Greek admixture in southern Italy especially Sicily. There is almost no North African, Gypose or whatever ancestry in Italy.

The documentary was named Italy revealed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27WjOXe9SDw

I gurentee anyone could tell the pigmentation difference between the Sardinians(nearly identically genetically to early European farmers Stuttgart and Otzi) and Baltic-Scandinavian people(closest relatives to Mesolithic Europeans and have majority Mesolithic ancestry).

Google images for Swedes, (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Swedish+people&tbm=isch&imgdii=_) Norwegians (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=norwegian+people&spell=1&tbm=isch&imgdii=_), Icelanders (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Iceland+people&tbm=isch&imgdii=_), Finnish (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Finnish+people&tbm=isch&imgdii=_), Sami (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Sami+people&tbm=isch&imgdii=_), Lithuanian (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Lithuanian+people&tbm=isch&imgdii=_), Latvians (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Latvian+people&tbm=isch&imgdii=_), and Estonians.
(https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Estonian+people&tbm=isch&imgdii=_)
Google images for Sardinians (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Sardinian+people&tbm=isch&imgdii=_)(most important), Italians (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Italian+people&tbm=isch&imgdii=_), Spainish (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Spanish+people&spell=1&tbm=isch&imgdii=_), Portuguese (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Portuguese+people&spell=1&tbm=isch&imgdii=_), and Greek (https://www.google.com/search?q=Swedish+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CKjmUqHCBIKNrgH3lYC4AQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=623#q=Greek+people&tbm=isch&imgdii=_).

No one can ignore the hair and eye color differences too. When I was 7 years old my parents told me Mexico was colonized by European people back in like the 1700's and I was shocked because Mexicans don't look white. My conclusion was that Italians colonized Mexico because Italians were darker(I had gone to an all Italian church the week before). No one can ignore the pigmentation differences.

Nigga what? I've seen that documentary and the only dark people were the ones from Palo di Siena.

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palio_di_Siena

Guess what? Palo di Siena is a summer event, so people are tanned.

You can even see the flag of the Contrada Capitana dell'Onda from Siena.

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrada_Capitana_dell%27Onda

[Fire Haired]

Nigga what? I've seen that documentary and the only dark people were the ones from Palo di Siena.

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palio_di_Siena

Guess what? Palo di Siena is a summer event, so people are tanned.

You can even see the flag of the Contrada Capitana dell'Onda from Siena.

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrada_Capitana_dell%27Onda

I have probably made some assumptions.

[Septentrion]

Study says :

"Southern Europeans (measures taken from Spaniards) show a skin pigmentation in parts of the body not exposed to the sun similar to that of Northern Europeans and, in some cases, even lighter."
http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/chem...color_2000.pdf

Also :
"All samples are composed of indigenous populations, and readings are taken on areas of the body not exposed to the sun. Higher values indicate lighter skin, and lower values darker skin."

Country and population or area

Observed reflectance at 685 nm

EUROPE

Netherlands
67•37
Germany (Mainz)
66•90
United Kingdom (Northern)
66•10
Spain (Basques)
65•70
United Kingdom (Wales) 65•00
Ireland (Rossmore)
64•75
Spain (Leon)
64•66
Belgium
63•14
United Kingdom (London) 62•30

WEST ASIA

Iraq/Syria (Kurds)
61•12
Turkey
59•15
Israel
58•20
Lebanon
58•20
Jordan
53•00
Saudi Arabia
52•50

NORTH AFRICA

Algeria (Aures)
58•05
Tunisia
56•30
Morrocco
54•85
Libya (Tripoli)
54•40
Libya (Fezzan) 44•00

SOUTH ASIA

India (Northern)
53•26
Pakistan
52•30
India (Southern)
46•70

EAST ASIA

China (Southern)
59•17
Vietnam
55•90
Japan (Northern)
54•90
Philippines (Manila)
54•10
Cambodia
54•00
Japan (Southwest)
53•55
Nepal (Eastern)
50•42

AUSTRO-MELANESIA

Papua New Guinea
35•30
Australia (Darwin)
19•30

AMERICAS

Greenland (Southern)
55•70
Peru (Nunoa)
47•70
Peru (Maranon)
43•05

SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA

South Africa (Hottentot)
46•80
Botswana (San)
42•40
Zaire
33•20
Kenya
32•40
Ethiopia
31•70
Tanzania (Sandewe)
28•90
Namibia
25•55
Cameroon (Fali)
21•50
Mozambique (Chopi)
19•45

[Nina Jablonski and George Chaplin. "The Evolution of Human Skin Coloration". J Hum Evol, 2000; pp. 74-75]
http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/chem...color_2000.pdf

False! the Highest reflectance in this study by Jablonski & Chaplin was from another series of the United Kingdom at 68.00! Why didn't you put that one up? Was it to serve your bias vs British people? Everyone knows that British and Irish are the lightest-skinned people in the world! This skin reflectance was incomplete and inadequate. We have better skin phototype systems like the Fitzpatrick which was much more accurate than that nonsense!

[Septentrion]

Spaniards are overall darker (hair, eye, skin) than most other Europeans (Northern, Central, Eastern), due to the fact that they are a Mediterranean people. However they are still lighter-pigmented than most Non-Europeans groups.

[alnortedelsur]

Spaniards are overall darker (hair, eye, skin) than most other Europeans (Northern, Central, Eastern), due to the fact that they are a Mediterranean people. However they are still lighter-pigmented than most Non-Europeans groups.

Spaniards and Portuguese are on par in pigmentation with Italians, some Balkan countries, and probably Greece. Then, you should have included all them in your sentence, as well.

[Bloody]

But it is a common belief. I just met a German on Youtube who said that they consider French and Italians whiter and more similar to them then Spaniards. I havent seen many non-Spaniards who say that Spaniards are whiter than or as white as French and Italians

False, all mediterranean area have similar pigmentation, and italian, spanish, greek, portuguese although non identical are considered of similar type of people, however French are perceived as typical western european rather than Southern european... but not fully Central/Northern European... Western european people (Typical french atlantic types, Irish, most brits and even quite a few belgians..) are darker than Northern/central or eastern europeans, they lack of strong teutonic, nordic and slavic-baltic component, and clearly have a more old european genetic stock when people used to have darker hair and overall features... (although not as dark as mediterranean who historically had contact with near east and north africa..)

[Bloody]

Spaniards and Portuguese are on par in pigmentation with Italians, some Balkan countries, and probably Greece. Then, you should have included all them in your sentence, as well.

Same way that People from Ireland ,the UK are far darker than other Northern Europeans, true blonde hair in british and irish women (and america save for some pockets in the upper midwest) is uncommon.

[Septentrion]

Spaniards and Portuguese are on par in pigmentation with Italians, some Balkan countries, and probably Greece. Then, you should have included all them in your sentence, as well.

OK. Fair enough.

[Septentrion]

False, all mediterranean area have similar pigmentation, and italian, spanish, greek, portuguese although non identical are considered of similar type of people, however French are perceived as typical western european rather than Southern european... but not fully Central/Northern European... Western european people (Typical french atlantic types, Irish, most brits and even quite a few belgians..) are darker than Northern/central or eastern europeans, they lack of strong teutonic, nordic and slavic-baltic component, and clearly have a more old european genetic stock when people used to have darker hair and overall features... (although not as dark as mediterranean who historically had contact with near east and north africa..)

False. According to a much more credible study, the World Health Organization, the fairest-skinned people in the world are Celtic people of North-West Europe. They are also the most vulnerable to skin cancer.

[Septentrion]

Same way that People from Ireland ,the UK are far darker than other Northern Europeans, true blonde hair in british and irish women (and america save for some pockets in the upper midwest) is uncommon.

Wrong! The people of the British Islands are the lightest-skinned in the world! This is due to the fact that they have the highest frequency of red hair genes which are linked to an increase of lighter and freckled skin types and also an increase to the vulnerability to skin cancers. No wonders ( White) Australians have the highest ratio of skin cancers due to the fact that most of them are descendants of the pale people of the British Islands. Other Northern Europeans such as Scandinavians, Balts, Dutch, northern Belgians, northern Germans, northern Russians, northern Poles , etc... as a whole tan or darken their skins naturally much better than the British Islanders.
Blonde hair is more prevalent in Scandinavian and also northern Baltic countries than in the British Islands, but northern Germany, Russia, the Netherlands, Poland, Belgium are not blonder rather similar.
We may associate blonde hair, blue eyes, a fair skin with the people of Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Iceland while that of red hair, blue or green eyes, very fair or freckled skin with the people of Ireland, Scotland, northern England and Wales, in fact slightly more than 20 million British people are carriers of the red-head gene and over 75% of the Irish population have skin type I/II! Blue eyes are also the commonest eye colour in Britain and Ireland (ScotlandDna Project).
So stop exaggerating the "darkness" of British/Irish people, they might have less blondness than Scandinavians, but they have more red hair than anyone. The vast majority of Irish, Scottish men have some reddish tinge in their beard colour regardless of their hair colour according to recent studies.

[Septentrion]

Same way that People from Ireland ,the UK are far darker than other Northern Europeans, true blonde hair in british and irish women (and america save for some pockets in the upper midwest) is uncommon.

Americans are a mixture of all Europeans. Your point is?
Recent studies by the GWAS in 2012 have shown that Irish women to have a much higher frequency of light hair( blonde and red) than their male counterparts. And as a whole, they were shown to be lighter than Poles, Italians, Portuguese groups involved in the study. So you don't what you are talking about and you are just being bias.

[Septentrion]

It actually doesn't matter how light your skin is when unexposed, since most Europeans will have a light to fair skin under those circumstances anyway. What matters is, how your skin reacts to tanning or natural darkening. The truly fair skin doesn't tan at all or tans with difficulty.

Iberians for example as a whole tan much better than Northern Europeans, for example. However in the winter or cooler months, their skin might be light because they are Europeans to begin with. No one is saying that Iberians are non-Europeans! They are White people. British are the fairest due to the fact that they as a whole don't tan naturally as much as most Europeans unless they're wearing some fake tans as many of their stars do! In fact they even tan less than the predominantly blond Scandinavians too!

[Cristiano viejo]

Septentrion@
LEARN TO MULTI-QUOTE, FOR GOD SAKE.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/multiquotebutton.jpg

[Enflamme]

I am almost never exposed to the sun and my skin is really tanned...

[Bloody]

Americans are a mixture of all Europeans. Your point is?
Recent studies by the GWAS in 2012 have shown that Irish women to have a much higher frequency of light hair( blonde and red) than their male counterparts. And as a whole, they were shown to be lighter than Poles, Italians, Portuguese groups involved in the study. So you don't what you are talking about and you are just being bias.

I have lived in both countries, Irish people have far darker hair in average than poles. The English people have slighty lighter hair than Irish, and even them are on average darker haired than poles, mediterranean looks is highly underrated in Ireland and the UK, lots of dark folks in those nations.

[DarknessWin]

All Europeans have similar color in the skin , the only difference is during the summer.
Its natural during the summer Spaniards would have darker skin because they have stronger sun but this is just a tan

[Cristiano viejo]

From today

http://s4.eestatic.com/2017/03/05/deportes/otros-deportes/Atletismo-Campeonato_Europeo_de_Atletismo_en_Pista_Cubierta_ 2017_-Belgrado-Campeonato_de_Europa_de_Atletismo-Otros_Deportes_198491606_30338793_1024x576.jpg

[Cristiano viejo]

From two days ago
http://s6.eestatic.com/2017/03/05/actualidad/Actualidad_198491861_30345494_1706x960.jpg

[Cristiano viejo]

http://www.pakvisit.com/Immigration/spanish-girls.jpg

[Tietar]

http://www.pakvisit.com/Immigration/spanish-girls.jpg

Ah yes, the fantastic world the "dark skin mediterranean" AKA No red, nor orange, nor extreme pink skin

https://www.auto123.com/ArtImages/159738/raikkonen-alonso-inline.jpg

http://cadenaser00.epimg.net/ser/imagenes/2013/04/08/espana/1365378613_740215_0000000000_noticia_normal.jpg

http://imagenes.canalrcn.com/ImgNoticias/styles/530xauto/s3/s3fs-public/noticias/antoniobanderas_09122015.jpg?itok=l6vC00Pc

http://images.eldiario.es/politica/Merkel-Saenz-Santamaria-preocupacion-Espana_EDIIMA20130305_0538_4.jpg

http://fotos01.laopiniondezamora.es/2013/05/11/646x260/illgner-casillas.jpg

[Septentrion]

Study says :

"Southern Europeans (measures taken from Spaniards) show a skin pigmentation in parts of the body not exposed to the sun similar to that of Northern Europeans and, in some cases, even lighter."
http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/chem...color_2000.pdf

Also :
"All samples are composed of indigenous populations, and readings are taken on areas of the body not exposed to the sun. Higher values indicate lighter skin, and lower values darker skin."

Country and population or area

Observed reflectance at 685 nm

EUROPE

Netherlands
67•37
Germany (Mainz)
66•90
United Kingdom (Northern)
66•10
Spain (Basques)
65•70
United Kingdom (Wales) 65•00
Ireland (Rossmore)
64•75
Spain (Leon)
64•66
Belgium
63•14
United Kingdom (London) 62•30

WEST ASIA

Iraq/Syria (Kurds)
61•12
Turkey
59•15
Israel
58•20
Lebanon
58•20
Jordan
53•00
Saudi Arabia
52•50

NORTH AFRICA

Algeria (Aures)
58•05
Tunisia
56•30
Morrocco
54•85
Libya (Tripoli)
54•40
Libya (Fezzan) 44•00

SOUTH ASIA

India (Northern)
53•26
Pakistan
52•30
India (Southern)
46•70

EAST ASIA

China (Southern)
59•17
Vietnam
55•90
Japan (Northern)
54•90
Philippines (Manila)
54•10
Cambodia
54•00
Japan (Southwest)
53•55
Nepal (Eastern)
50•42

AUSTRO-MELANESIA

Papua New Guinea
35•30
Australia (Darwin)
19•30

AMERICAS

Greenland (Southern)
55•70
Peru (Nunoa)
47•70
Peru (Maranon)
43•05

SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA

South Africa (Hottentot)
46•80
Botswana (San)
42•40
Zaire
33•20
Kenya
32•40
Ethiopia
31•70
Tanzania (Sandewe)
28•90
Namibia
25•55
Cameroon (Fali)
21•50
Mozambique (Chopi)
19•45

[Nina Jablonski and George Chaplin. "The Evolution of Human Skin Coloration". J Hum Evol, 2000; pp. 74-75]
http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/chem...color_2000.pdf

Rubbish! That's only skin reflectance! Since when ultra-pale Irish people darker-skinned than Spaniards? Many Spaniards have actually a light brown skin. Most Irish and British can't even get a proper tan? How's that dark?
A Spaniard may look fair-skinned in the winter, but in the summer he's fully bronzed! Spaniards as a whole are least darker than Northern Europeans.

[Cristiano viejo]

Rubbish! That's only skin reflectance! Since when ultra-pale Irish people darker-skinned than Spaniards? Many Spaniards have actually a light brown skin. Most Irish and British can't even get a proper tan? How's that dark?
A Spaniard may look fair-skinned in the winter, but in the summer he's fully bronzed! Spaniards as a whole are least darker than Northern Europeans.
That is precisely the point, man, that is precisely the point... :rolleyes:

[Pastor]

The original Spaniards (Iberians) were of pure Aryan stock. It was after they were subjugated by the Moors that they were forced to "mix" with them also. Thus changing their original racial make-up and that is why some are referred to as "swarthy". Or at least my understanding of it. The same is true with Greece and Italians only they were doing the conquering and "mixed" with the people they conquered. There is one N. Italian tribe (Lombards) who retain their ethnic purity as they are described as "blonde and blue-eyed".

[Cristiano viejo]

The original Spaniards (Iberians) were of pure Aryan stock. It was after they were subjugated by the Moors that they were forced to "mix" with them also. Thus changing their original racial make-up and that is why some are referred to as "swarthy". Or at least my understanding of it. The same is true with Greece and Italians only they were doing the conquering and "mixed" with the people they conquered. There is one N. Italian tribe (Lombards) who retain their ethnic purity as they are described as "blonde and blue-eyed".

Yes, and the original Anglos that arrived to America were of pure Aryan stock too. It was after they were subjugated to live with blacks, Amerindians, Jews etc that they were forced to "mix" with them also. This changing their original racial make-up and that is why some are referred to as "melungeons", mixed people etc
Or at least my understanding of it.

[Tietar]

The original Spaniards (Iberians) were of pure Aryan stock. It was after they were subjugated by the Moors that they were forced to "mix" with them also. Thus changing their original racial make-up and that is why some are referred to as "swarthy". Or at least my understanding of it.

Who cares about your understanding?

read a bit of history and stop "thinking"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Moriscos

[Lavrentis]

The original Spaniards (Iberians) were of pure Aryan stock. It was after they were subjugated by the Moors that they were forced to "mix" with them also. Thus changing their original racial make-up and that is why some are referred to as "swarthy". Or at least my understanding of it. The same is true with Greece and Italians only they were doing the conquering and "mixed" with the people they conquered. There is one N. Italian tribe (Lombards) who retain their ethnic purity as they are described as "blonde and blue-eyed".

Greeks didn't mix with Turks. During the Ottoman Empire, it was forbidden of a christian man to marry a muslim woman. In rare cases, a muslim man could marry a christian woman but their kids would be raised as muslims. I assume it's the same with the Arab occupation of Spain.

Greeks married with West Asians after we received Greek-speaking Anatolians here in 1923, after a population exchange with Turkey. In short, christians from Turkey were sent to Greece and Turks from Greece were sent to Turkey. Read more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_exchange_between_Greece_and_Turkey

[alnortedelsur]

The original Spaniards (Iberians) were of pure Aryan stock. It was after they were subjugated by the Moors that they were forced to "mix" with them also. Thus changing their original racial make-up and that is why some are referred to as "swarthy". Or at least my understanding of it. The same is true with Greece and Italians only they were doing the conquering and "mixed" with the people they conquered. There is one N. Italian tribe (Lombards) who retain their ethnic purity as they are described as "blonde and blue-eyed".

And what is the name of the science fiction book you got it from??

Or from where did you get the pot that you smoke?? It must be a really good one :rolleyes:

[Septentrion]

The original Spaniards (Iberians) were of pure Aryan stock. It was after they were subjugated by the Moors that they were forced to "mix" with them also. Thus changing their original racial make-up and that is why some are referred to as "swarthy". Or at least my understanding of it. The same is true with Greece and Italians only they were doing the conquering and "mixed" with the people they conquered. There is one N. Italian tribe (Lombards) who retain their ethnic purity as they are described as "blonde and blue-eyed".

What purity? Lombards were not an Italian tribe, rather an East Germanic tribe.

[Petalpusher]

Rubbish! That's only skin reflectance! .

This is how you measure colors in many applications not just skin, reflectance at different wavelengths with a spectrometer.

I think we are just accustomed to see reddish tones as lighter for skins but metrically it isn't, although one can argue a lighter skin reflects more of the blood vessels, makes it...darker, it may be valid for some NW populations like Irish but i think elsewhere it's rather because people really have more yellowish tones.

[Septentrion]

The original Spaniards (Iberians) were of pure Aryan stock. It was after they were subjugated by the Moors that they were forced to "mix" with them also. Thus changing their original racial make-up and that is why some are referred to as "swarthy". Or at least my understanding of it. The same is true with Greece and Italians only they were doing the conquering and "mixed" with the people they conquered. There is one N. Italian tribe (Lombards) who retain their ethnic purity as they are described as "blonde and blue-eyed".

There is no such thing as "pure" Aryan. It is all foolishness, preached and embraced by the Nazi regime and those who think alike. Aryans were not even Europeans (Whites) to begin with, they were Indians! Spaniards, Portuguese, Italians, Greeks, Albanians, Bulgarians, etc... are Mediterranean Europeans to begin with, for this reason, there's a higher frequency of swarthy or darker-complexioned Europeans. This is a result of adaptation to a warmer climate than what is usually normal for Europe. Lighter complexions of most Northern and Central Europeans has absolutely nothing to do with racial purity (which is nonsense!), rather adaptation to the colder climates of north gave rise to pale or white skin instead of light brown with blue, green, gray eyes instead of brown eyes as well as brown, blond and finally red hair instead of black hair. The Ancient Lombards were an Eastern Germanic tribe who settled North Italy, this is why North Italy is the blondest region of Italy. They were not an Italian/Italic tribe as you claimed, their origins lays in South Sweden and the Baltic region, this is why they are described as fair ("blonde-haired, blue-eyed and fair-skinned") and has nothing to do with racial purity. It is a known fact that Scandinavia and the Baltic regions to be the blondest region of Europe, thus no surprise. The ancient Lombards were similar to other Germanic peoples such as the Anglo-Saxons, Franks, Suebi, Norse, etc...

[Septentrion]

This is how you measure colors in many applications not just skin, reflectance at different wavelengths with a spectrometer.

I think we are just accustomed to see reddish tones as lighter for skins but metrically it isn't, although one can argue a lighter skin reflects more of the blood vessels, makes it...darker, it may be valid for some NW populations like Irish but i think elsewhere it's rather because people really have more yellowish tones.

As I have already mentioned a skin may appear light when not exposed to sunlight. However to really know how fair a skin really is, it's when they are exposed to sunlight. The fairest skin burns the most and tans the least or doesn't tan at all. More than 75% of the Irish population belong to skin type I/II according to the Irish Ministry of Health, this is higher than any European nation. Skin type I and II are typical in Celtic nations of the British Isles.

[Petalpusher]

As I have already mentioned a skin may appear light when not exposed to sunlight. However to really know how fair a skin really is, it's when they are exposed to sunlight. The fairest skin burns the most and tans the least or doesn't tan at all. More than 75% of the Irish population belong to skin type I/II according to the Irish Ministry of Health, this is higher than any European nation. Skin type I and II are typical in Celtic nations of the British Isles.

There you would be assessing how a skin can tan, that's not the subject, most can tan eventually (or at least get skin cancer for it). You are not gonna compare skin of people exposed to massive irradiation all years who can even go to the beach in february to those who don't see any, that's why they pick the most unexposed part of the skins like under the arms. Where i live many northern European look mega tanned at the end of their summer vacations, with some phases of looking like lobsters but this has no ethnical implications how dark they are in August, obviously the dark skin of Africans or Australians are not the result of a summer tan. Otherwise i agree, Brit/Irish or Dutch have the lightest skins, likely by a landslide, it's really a NW thing.

[Septentrion]

There you would be assessing how a skin can tan, that's not the subject, most can tan eventually (or at least get skin cancer for it). You are not gonna compare skin of people exposed to massive irradiation all years who can even go to the beach in february to those who don't see any, that's why they pick the most unexposed part of the skins like under the arms. Where i live many northern European look mega tanned at the end of their summer vacations, with some phases of looking like lobsters but this has no ethnical implications how dark they are in August, obviously the dark skin of Africans or Australians are not the result of a summer tan. Otherwise i agree, Brit/Irish or Dutch have the lightest skins, likely by a landslide, it's really a NW thing.

In other words, the lightest or palest skins are the ones who don't have ability to tan but burn badly when exposed to ultraviolet rays and thus have the highest risk for skin cancer. These skin types are usually associated with those who are red-headed or pale blondes in most European populations, however in predominantly Celtic populations it is common regardless of hair colour. Among the Welsh of strong Celtic ancestry/lineage, it is at least 73% (skin type I/II). Belgium has a higher frequency of skin type I than the Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, etc..
The inability was probably acquired at a time when it was advantageous to have a lighter skin in North-West Europe order to acquire faster Vitamin D which is vital for health.

[Septentrion]

This is how you measure colors in many applications not just skin, reflectance at different wavelengths with a spectrometer.

I think we are just accustomed to see reddish tones as lighter for skins but metrically it isn't, although one can argue a lighter skin reflects more of the blood vessels, makes it...darker, it may be valid for some NW populations like Irish but i think elsewhere it's rather because people really have more yellowish tones.

The reddish tones in whites are obviously te reflection of blood vessels shows how translucent a skin is.

[Dr. Bambo]

Stupid Spaniards don't want to allow Catalonians to be independent.
Dark like Moors Spaniards are jealous because Catalonians are whiter!

[Septentrion]

In America most people are from north-west Europe(or from northern Europe period like Poland) and I haven't seen many full blooded south Europeans. I have seen them on TV though I saw a documentary on Italy and I was shocked by how dark and foreign they looked(including facial features). Some were totally brown some were totally white some were in between. I read a passage from an ancient Roman who said we Romans are not as white as Germans and not as dark as Egyptians(talking about pigmentation). I have read multiple writings from Romans from different periods describing the paleness in Germans and Celts as foreign. From the few full blooded Greeks or Italians I have seen in my city(grown up in the same climate) they are definitely darker. I am always surprised by how dark the Spainish and Portuguese soccer teams on TV are and I have seen documentaries about something that has to do with Iberians and I have always noticed they are darker skinned. Where do you think the phrase tall, dark, and handsome comes from? It comes from more northern European women who saw the darkness as foreign in southern Europeans which is why it is in that phrase.

I don't think anyone would argue that southern Europeans are a little darker skinned than northern Europeans. There is definitely a hair and eye color difference which also means south Europeans are darker pigmented. I think the difference is s result of differences in hunter gatherer and farmer(or just near eastern) ancestry.

There is some dark skin in north-west Europeans that I have seen. There is some brown(literally) skin in my family that people were just born with and it is not from tanning.

Spain and Italy are located in the southern end of Europe, thus a warmer region than northern parts of Europe. Therefore, the frequency of "darker-skinned" ethnic Europeans would be higher, due to the fact that the need for very pale skin is less required. However this doesn't make Southern Europeans any less European than their other European counterparts. As a whole Northern, Central and Southern Europeans are still light-skinned in comparison to non- ethnic European groups. On individual basis, there are Iberians who are very pale too, especially more numerous in the north-west in the Asturias, Galicia, etc... There is Germanic, Celtic admixture in Iberian and Italian populations not to be disregarded. Yes, differences in hair and eye colour between North-West and Southern European are found.

[Sp_loa]

My family doesn't have any Northern European ancestry(According to DNA, unless you consider Canarid type Berbers as Northern European).
My brother lives In northern Germany and I think he is the lightest person in his city. I'm not kidding, his german friends can't understand how he is so light, you could think that he is albino unless his dark brown hair and his greenish-grayish eyes.

I think this is the proof that some Southern European(and we not even fully Europeans, we are Southern Europeans&Middle easterns &Berbers mix) might be as white as northern European when unexposed to a lot sun. (on the other hand I'm darker than him and I don't think I can be light as Germans so I think it is applied only to some southern Europeans).

[Maintenance]

I know some spaniards, they are emo white.

[Laberia]

I know some spaniards, they are emo white.

I agree, some of them looks white.

[Cristiano viejo]

I agree, some of them looks white.

Of course more than these Albanians... :whistle:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?223469-DIFFERENCES-BETWEEN-SPANISH-AND-ALBANIAN-NATIONAL-FOOTBALL-TEAMS

[Laberia]

Of course more than these Albanians... :whistle:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?223469-DIFFERENCES-BETWEEN-SPANISH-AND-ALBANIAN-NATIONAL-FOOTBALL-TEAMS

Keep barking little moor.

[Cristiano viejo]

Keep barking little moor.

This little Moor is 1000 times lighter than the great Moor that you are...
... just like these Spaniards compared with these Albanians :icon_lol:

[alnortedelsur]

Stupid Spaniards don't want to allow Catalonians to be independent.
Dark like Moors Spaniards are jealous because Catalonians are whiter!

That Catalans are lighter than other Spaniards is a stupid as fuck myth, as dumb as the stupid movies where dinosaurs co-exist with prehistoric humans, lol.

[Cristiano viejo]

That Catalans are lighter than other Spaniards is a stupid as fuck myth, as dumb as the myth of dinosaurs co-existing with prehistoric humans, lol.

It is rather the opposite, taking account that the majority of them have Andalusian roots.

[alnortedelsur]

It is rather the opposite, taking account that the majority of them have Andalusian roots.

Agree, but the myth is about ethnic Catalans of old Catalan stock being lighter than other Spaniards, and they aren't. They're maybe just very slightly lighter compared to Spaniards from the southernmost Spanish regions, but they are NO WAY lighter than ALL other Spaniards, and let alone than Spaniards from regions located as north or more northern than Catalonia.

[Odelia]

This thread is such a joke and it proves my point about many Southern Europeans who are insecure of their race and dark traits. So insecure that they have to make "Spaniards are not that dark" kind of threads. Pretty classic.

Embrace your complexion and background y'all. The darkest Europeans will always be those in the south of the landmass. Even the geography and climate there is like West Asia with Mediterranean vegetation.

[Cristiano viejo]

This thread is such a joke and it proves my point about many Southern Europeans who are insecure of their race and dark traits. So insecure that they have to make "Spaniards are not that dark" kind of threads. Pretty classic.

Embrace your complexion and background y'all. The darkest Europeans will always be those in the south of the landmass. Even the geography and climate there is like West Asia with Mediterranean vegetation.

So we are insecure because we deny false accusations? ok then you are insecure as well because you Frenchs dont embrace your dark complexion and background since you are just Meds.

[Gredos]

This thread is such a joke and it proves my point about many Southern Europeans who are insecure of their race and dark traits. So insecure that they have to make "Spaniards are not that dark" kind of threads. Pretty classic.

Embrace your complexion and background y'all. The darkest Europeans will always be those in the south of the landmass. Even the geography and climate there is like West Asia with Mediterranean vegetation.

NO, NEVER, if you affirm something you have to prove it

Look at this guy, if we rely on your perception, conception, or assumption, you can claim that he is dark, olive, colored, brown, or whatever shit you want.

https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/default/2018/05/31/00121527787204351433126/Foto/POL005E15.jpg

But the reality is this, your president looks like a fucking mongrel when he's by his side

https://www.ecestaticos.com/image/clipping/557/418/f5f33283dbaf91033e96fddc69fd0258/el-proces-no-convence-tras-los-pirineos-por-que-francia-es-tan-firme-acerca-de-cataluna.jpg

Holy shit, compare their hands

https://uh.gsstatic.es/sfAttachPlugin/498343.jpg

not even the swedish minister looks whiter, just bruised

https://estaticos.efe.com/efecom/recursos2/imagen.aspx?lVW2oAh2vjOhvnonuVT7SBIDq-P-2bnV35nLQ4TncnkXVSTX-P-2bAoG0sxzXPZPAk5l-P-2fU5UT7gzgPk-P-2f26imDJJLHNXAuA-P-3d-P-3d

So everything you say, and what is said in this forum about spaniards is false by default. if you affirm something, prove it, otherwise shut your mouth

here we will be every day