How do you think the world would've been if Hitler had won WW2?

[HawkR]

How do you think the world and your country specific would've been if Hitler had won WW2?

[Arrow Cross]

My country would have remained in the German sphere of influence, and as part of the "Western world", regardless of a succesful Barbarossa happening or not. That is the inevitable fate of (now-)small nations, although we'd be way larger of a country, thanks to the First and Second Vienna Awards.

Our Jewish and Gypsy population would be expulsed to Palestine and Madagascar, respectively. There were bad tongues in wartime, especially after the front neared the borders that upon a German victory, we'd be "sent back to Asia" too, but it's most likely nothing more than the mind-creation of Bolshevik propagandists - and radical SS members.

After Hitler's death, I think a more moderate National Socialist leader would have followed(much like in the S.U.), but the Slavs of Europe would have had a rought time for sure, nevertheless. The ultimate failure of Hitlerism was its lack of Pan-European thought, they were defeated, among others, because they refused to extend their hand to their Slavic brothers.

That is a lesson we must never forget.

[HawkR]

I didn't realice how hard the question would be for me:p


The world itself, well, it's hard to imagine anything actually as I don't know as much about Hitler as I would like to. But Norway would've been a better place since we then would have no immigrants and such. No jews, yeah, I think it would have been better.

[Oisín]

I imagine a victory for Germany in WWII would have meant a much weaker Britain so they would no longer be occupying the north east of Ireland, other than that I don't think Ireland would have been affected too much. Apart from some nice pro-Irish propaganda films I don't think Hitler had too much of an interest in Ireland. Throughout WWII we remained on good diplomatic terms with the Third Reich and De Valera refused to join the Allies despite enormous pressure from the UK so perhaps he would have rewarded us some land in England, that would have been nice.

[TheGreatest]

There would had been no ''Hitler was wrong" rhetoric that led to the revolutions of the 1970's that brought an end to the United States, as being an European-White institution.


That means the Jim Crow Laws remain in effect, John F. Kennedy does not become President (or adjusts himself to become a Nationalists; how typical of politicians) and there is no immigration and civil rights reform in 1965.

And of course this means no War on Terror (and no being sodomized by black security guards at the Detroit Airport) and no Barack Hussein Obama.



So what would life be like? It's debatable as to how far consumer goods will advance. Would we have personal computers? Let alone Video Games? Would the Nazi have tolerated millions of youth spending a dozen hours+ doing ''Idle's Work" on the Xbox?

Much like in the People's Republic of China, there are actual Government mandates dictating the maximum hours a child/adult can spend online.


But I will talk about myself. I was forced to go to an educational institution (elementary/secondary) were almost everyone was non-white. That was because I was born in a city, particularly in a community, in which everyone was an immigrant except for the oldest families.

Very few kids spoke English and it was difficult for me to make friends.
Had Hitler won, I doubt this would have occurred, a large number of East Indians and Chinese being tolerated and allowed to settle in North America.



And regarding German racial policy? I don't know if I would had been ''grabbed and sent" to a farm in Manitoba or Siberia, massaging Heinz the German Landlord and harvesting his wheat. Although I had the impression that the Germans had only reserved such a fate to the Asiatic-looking populations in Eastern Europe.


As a young adult I am terrified about my immediate future. Will I be able to afford a home? Thanks to an An immigration boom from Hong Kong and the richest parts of India, has resulted in a cadre of foreign-businessmen playing ''real estate" and subsequently flipping and bursting properties into the unaffordable range for the majority of people in the city, subsequently forcing most of us to live in small apartments.



Thanks Hitler. Had you fought a little harder, maybe I would had have the pleasure of being born in a 100% ethnic community, afford my own house at 20 and have a lovely looking pair of sons. Instead few people I know have children before 30, no one can afford their own house and most people are miserable, centering their lives around work...

[Absinthe]

I don't see how the world could ever have been worse than it is right now :(

[TheGreatest]

I imagine a victory for Germany in WWII would have meant a much weaker Britain so they would no longer be occupying the north east of Ireland, other than that I don't think Ireland would have been affected too much. Apart from some nice pro-Irish propaganda films I don't think Hitler had too much of an interest in Ireland. Throughout WWII we remained on good diplomatic terms with the Third Reich and De Valera refused to join the Allies despite enormous pressure from the UK so perhaps he would have rewarded us some land in England, that would have been nice.


Hitler's defeat did leave ripples in the English speaking world; particularly in the academia, who certainty left their impression on the post-war baby boomers, who are the current political leaders of our nations.

My Father is sadly a Neo-Conservative because of them. Loves Israel and thinks it's purpose is to ''spread democracy'' in the Middle East. Of course he could always be pulling the wool over our eyes. Because other than his pro-Israeli stance, he is a Nationalist and an Anglo-Saxon one at that.

[Vulpix]

That is my point of view as well.


I don't see how the world could ever have been worse than it is right now :(

[TheGreatest]

Despite all the misery things wouldn't be so bad if we just had options. We don't. We no longer have the living space that our ancestors had.



And creating it isn't much of an option. Rhodesia being a good example of a nation in Africa that encouraged White immigration and was subsequently destroyed by both the Capitalists and Bolsheviks (Zionists for a lack of a better word)

[Loyalist]

It depends on how and when Germany prevailed. If, for example, peace was negotiated with the British after the fall of France, the United Kingdom, by necessity, would be much stronger than it is at present. With the proper leadership, the British Empire would still exist in some form, unless Colonial leaders took a sharp anti-Axis turn (which is more than likely). If defeat of the United Kingdom came about through German invasion (eg: Operation Sea Lion), the country would be in ruins for decades to come, and relegated to being a puppet state with the Nazi-installed BUF in power.

In Eastern European, Generalplan Ost would have done its job and wiped out the Slavs. The vast majority would have been subject to enslavement (particularly the Czechs and Poles), expulsion beyond the Urals, extermination, and the assimilation of a small number of Nordic specimens. Today, there would be no Slavic remnants anywhere in the region, which would now be populated by millions of German colonists.

Italy would certainly remain indepenent, so long as Mussolini remained in power. It may be part of a small Mediterranean empire (encompassing Albania, Greece, North Africa, etc.), but would be wholly subservient to Germany.

Japan would doubtless rule over Asia, the Pacific Islands, and most likely Australia and New Zealand. I would like to see how Germany and Japan would go about carving up Asia, and if there were any conflicting interests.

As far as the United States is concerned, I cannot see how they could co-exist peacefully with the Axis powers for any extended period of time. The threat of nuclear M.A.D. might be enough to maintain a status quo, but tensions would always be ready to boil over at any minute, and I do not believe the Americans could prevail over a combined German and Japanese assault. The best option for the US would be to elect a president likely to have a friendly approach to the Axis, such as Charles Lindbergh or Joseph Kennedy Sr. The obstacle to that would be bitter Jews waging their biggest financial and propaganda war yet to elect an anti-Axis leader, even if it meant destruction for the nation.

As for the political situation in Germany, Hitler would have held power at least into the 1960s (I do not believe he was heading towards senility, dementia, or any of those other insulting theories). Either way, the chances of a moderate coming to power are remote. Hard-liners such as Heinrich Himmler, Josef Goebbels, and even Reinhard Heydrich (whom Hitler had long been grooming as a successor) would be lined up to seize power in the event of Hitler's death or incapacitation. Bormann and Göring are the best candidates for a less-extreme interpretation of National Socialism, but the two are political enigmas. I would agree that, once the World War II generation died out, it is almost certain that a moderate or reformer would be installed.

The political landscape aside, it would seem that, technologically, we would be far ahead of our own world. Aircraft, space exploration, and even home technologies would be given a massive boost. Healthcare would be far superior, aided by everything from improved equipment, research, eugenics, and so on. Industrial entities, being more environmentally-compatible, would cut down on pollution, eliminating all this ridiculous worrying about "global warming". Youth groups (eg: Hitler Youth) would likely be more commonplace across the globe, instilling discipline and responsibility, while eliminating problems such as gangs and teen pregnancy. Criminals would simply be liquidated, as opposed to ridiculous concepts, like rehabilitation, that have taken hold now. I could go on and on, but regardless, an alternate outcome to World War II would leave this world a utopia compared to our situation in reality.

[Beorn]

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/uusieurooppa.png

An interesting map interpreting what Europe may have looked like.

[Inese]

The map looks supergood!!!! :D Germany should have won the second world war. The Sovjetunion would have never occupied our Baltic nations after a Germany victory: Never a part of the USSR! So wonderful would have been that. German East Prussia would be a near neighbour of my country with friendly relationships and so much more. All the Russians who contaminate Baltic soil today would be bad dream, but no ugly reality!! Latvia would be an ally and big friend of Nazi Germany, like we already was in the second world war. Many Latvians fighted as voluteers for the German side do you know that?

Europe would be clean of all that foreigners, muslims, liberals and idiots. What a wonderful world we could have if not the English and their stupid Churchil was...first he killed Germany and then his own Commonwealth. Goob job, teatrinker! :coffee: England should have allied with Germany against Stalin and the USSR. New Pakistan, Frogeater country and New Obamaland pay now their prize for support the wrong side.

[TheGreatest]

An interesting map interpreting what Europe may have looked like.


Why would the Germans allow the Soviets to keep all that? If the Germans were able to capture all the Caucasus and Moscow plains, what exactly would the Soviets have left to fight with? :confused:


I'm certain I've seen this map and an explanation of it on Axis History.


Though the Orange States were suppose to be an actual part of German, except being an autonomous state akin to Bavaria in the II Reich and Tibet in China. Though the notable exception being is that despite this autonomy, all the political leaders would had been German.
The Pink States, ''Ostland'' was not a part of the German Reich and had it's own independent state, with substantial SS involvement and administration (Alfred Rosenberg would had most likely been it's first Chancellor/President/Etc)


Moscow, Volga and Ukraine were more or less described as an ''eugenics playground''. In which the German SS was supposed to have complete control over these regions, could do whatever it wanted and of course pursue it's Übermensch (no doubt through racial breeding between SS soldiers, German colonists and local Nordid specimens...)



Though I don't see the Soviet Union (or the "SSR") surviving in this kind of world. No doubt the Germans would be busy populating and exploiting Siberia. The problem being is what German would want to leave home for undeveloped Siberia?


The Germans mentioned the expulsion of the Slavonic people as being integral to lebensraum.
At least the way it is taught in America was that this was a codeword for sending them to die in the Siberian mountains.


But I'm under the belief that the idea was more like a ''re-location'', uprooting the Slavonic peoples from their ancestral homelands and using them to colonize Siberia (becoming farmers and miners in Siberia and sending raw materials back to Germany, in exchange for consumer goods).

As a man once said development has it's cost. No doubt the relocation to Siberia would had been difficult. But life would continue and be the same (if not better) than it originally was.

[Nachthimmel]

In terms of ethnic homogeneity, it would have been better. But the reason I dislike National Socialism is because it's a authoritarian ideology which restricts freedom. I don't like nanny governments, although I suppose I would feel better off than nowadays, where we have both a nanny government and ethnic "diversity".

[Arrow Cross]

In terms of ethnic homogeneity, it would have been better. But the reason I dislike National Socialism is because it's a authoritarian ideology which restricts freedom. I don't like nanny governments, although I suppose I would feel better off than nowadays, where we have both a nanny government and ethnic "diversity".
It does, but the advantage of many of an authoritarian state that it takes away rights and freedoms that are regressive for both the collective, and the individual anyway.

As I have explained elsewhere...
http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?p=653932#post653932

[TheGreatest]

Well... Haven't you guys ever heard of a benevolent dictatorship? The Nazis had a lot of benevolent stuff planned.
If WW2 policies were any indication, the National Socialists wouldn't had been militarist warmongers like the Soviets. Less emphasis on the whole "let's build 40,000 tanks in peace time!" like the Soviets had done in the 1920's and post-WW2

[Beorn]

Why would the Germans allow the Soviets to keep all that? If the Germans were able to capture all the Caucasus and Moscow plains, what exactly would the Soviets have left to fight with?....

Strangemaps (http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/10/17/186-europe-if-the-nazis-had-won/)

I found the map by simply Googling for one. The page I got it from didn't explain the reasoning behind it. The original site where he got the map is now defunct so it seems speculation will be the only answer.

But there could be hope! Check out the poster for comment number 6.

Could it be? :D

[Vargtand]

There would probably be even more Germans, you have any idea how obnoxious German tourists are?

[TheGreatest]

Strangemaps (http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/10/17/186-europe-if-the-nazis-had-won/)

I found the map by simply Googling for one. The page I got it from didn't explain the reasoning behind it. The original site where he got the map is now defunct so it seems speculation will be the only answer.

But there could be hope! Check out the poster for comment number 6.

Could it be? :D

I believe someone posted an explanation behind that map on forum.axishistory.com (despite one might think it's an apolitical website). What I wrote was a summary and no doubt it's more or less accurate.

The whole purpose of lebensraum wasn't about reclaiming the Teutonic people of the East but simply living space for the Germans. The Balts and Finns were tolerated (despite not being Germanic) because they had more or less peacefully co-existed with the Germans. It was mainly the Slavonic peoples (particularly the Poles and Russians; less so the Czechs, Slovaks, Croats, Slovenes and Ukrainians) who were supposed to had been expelled/removed.

[TheGreatest]

... 40 Acres and a Mule for freed Slaves!


... 400 Acres and a blond Russian woman for SS veterans! :D

[Revenant]

I think although it's hard to say, for the "white world" overall yes, things would be better.

For Australia it would have been a disaster. White Australia would have been finished off by the Japs. I have no doubt about that at all.

[TheGreatest]

I think although it's hard to say, for the "white world" overall yes, things would be better.

For Australia it would have been a disaster. White Australia would have been finished off by the Japs. I have no doubt about that at all.


Not true.
In most fictional stories of a successful Germany, the United States doesn't enter the European theatre or commits most of its troops to the Pacific Front to defeat Japan. AKA Australia and New Zealand are still alive, probably aligned with Canada (housing the ''Canadian Royal Family" consisting of King George. While in the UK Edward is the reigning Monarch) and the United States


When to think of it isn't so bad for the United Kingdom, no Queen Elizabeth to dismantle to the British Empire

[Arrow Cross]

Japan never stood a realistic chance against the sheer resources and industrial power of the USA, and many in their high leadership warned against Pearl Harbor. It is true that the oil embargo made this step beneficial on the short run, but on the long run, they would have been a lot better off stabbing the Soviet Union in the back, stripping the US of its casus belli in the process.

Then, the world would be a different place.

[Sarmata]

... Europe would be Pan-Germanic lunatic asylum...after dipleacement and murder of "non-Aryan" Slavs("non -aryan" couse they/we doesn't want to be German slaves oposite to Japans who were German aliance and honourable Aryans;)). Only reasonable man(in German policy in relation to Slavs) was Alfred Rosenberg but nobody wanted to listen him... Who will be next? Probably less valuable elements in European nations...To would realize dream about clean Nordic Europe they would have to kill 4/5 or even more population of Europe...

[Thorum]

Here's my narrow, uneducated view.

Pros: I would be "in" as I only have northern European roots/ancestry. My status would therefore be higher than the "others." As an American though, I am not so sure about this...........;) I could be proud to be "white" again.

Cons: Looking over your back constantly. The fight against Islamization (begun 1400 years ago) would end as Jews would now be the "problem".

Much more to say but I will leave it with 3 minutes worth of typing........

[Loyalist]

Pros: I would be "in" as I only have northern European roots/ancestry. My status would therefore be higher than the "others." As an American though, I am not so sure about this...........;) I could be proud to be "white" again.

As I said, there would have only been two realistic outcomes for the United States; the election of pro-Axis President, Charles Lindbergh or Joseph Kennedy Sr. considered the most likely candidates by historians, or eventual military conquest by Germany. In the case of the former, both men were Nordicists and anti-Semites, influenced by like-minded figures such as Henry Ford and Charles Coughlin. With either in power, Americans of Northern European descent would become the ruling class, "ethnic" Europeans, as well as non-Europeans, would be partly or totally segregated, and, perhaps most importantly, Jews deprived of power. In the case of a German invasion, the consequences for Jews and other non-Europeans would obviously be much worse, but again, life for Americans of Northern European stock would be far improved from today. Contrary to war-time Nazi propaganda, Hitler held the United States in great esteem during his early career, viewing it as an example of the accomplishments of Germanic peoples, and lauding the nation's policies on race and eugenics. To quote from Mein Kampf:


It shows with terrifying clarity that in every mingling of Aryan blood with that of lower peoples the result was the end of the cultured people. North America, whose population consists in by far the largest part of Germanic elements who mixed but little with the lower colored peoples, shows a different humanity and culture from Central and South America, where the predominantly Latin immigrants often mixed with the aborigines on a large scale. By this one example, we can clearly and distinctly recognize the effect of racial mixture. The Germanic inhabitant of the American continent, who has remained racially pure and unmixed, rose to be master of the continent; he will remain the master as long as he does not fall a victim to defilement of the blood.


Cons: Looking over your back constantly. The fight against Islamization (begun 1400 years ago) would end as Jews would now be the "problem".

On the contrary, the triumph of Nazism would have curtailed the spread of Islam. Arabs were, under Nazi racial doctrine, as Semitic as the Jews, and would thus eventually be subject to the same fate. That alone physically eliminates the bulk of the Muslim world. Granted, Iranians, viewed as an Aryan people, would have been exempted, but obviously would never pose any threat to European civilization. Bosnian Muslims were used as cannon fodder for SS auxiliary units in much the same fashion Caucasians, Kalmyks, and so forth were taken advantage of in the later stages of the war, but with the Croatian Ustaše (A Catholic party which did not smile upon either Muslims or Orthodox Christians) set to rule the Yugoslav states, that presence would have been kept in check.

[Heimmacht]

My people at the least could have been proud of their culture and theirselfs if he would have won, we would be semite-free and interracial partnerships would have been frowned upon.

The ethnics would have been more in touch with their Fatherland and folk.

[TheGreatest]

... Europe would be Pan-Germanic lunatic asylum...after dipleacement and murder of "non-Aryan" Slavs("non -aryan" couse they/we doesn't want to be German slaves oposite to Japans who were German aliance and honourable Aryans;)). Only reasonable man(in German policy in relation to Slavs) was Alfred Rosenberg but nobody wanted to listen him... Who will be next? Probably less valuable elements in European nations...To would realize dream about clean Nordic Europe they would have to kill 4/5 or even more population of Europe...

Actually there were a lot of reasonable men in the German hierarchy. Most of the German generals had opposed the harsh treatment of Slavs. And some Governors such as Albert Forster were quite liberal/pan-Nordoid in their views.



Ultimately the Anti-Slavic policies were mainly the result of appointing individuals like Heinrich Himmler and Erich Koch. Before the First World War, Koch had been a Russophile Socialist who, like men of his caliber, he had the stern belief that Ukrainians were ''little Russians'' and should be treated as such. And generally everyone had a foul opinion of the Poles back then. He like men of his time (think of my Patton quotes), viewed the Russians as being a disciplined ruthless horde of Mongols, not capable of negotiation and only understanding violence...




The National Socialists drew up figures in the 1937 (Generalplan Ost) and declared insane figures such as 50% of Czechs, 65% of Ukrainians and 80% of Russians would have to be killed or deported.
That just showed how desperate the Germans were in regards to that ''living space'', the Czechs were hardly rebellious in WW2 (though a Czech revisionist will claim otherwise) and didn't deserve such a fate

[Soldier of Wodann]

I think although it's hard to say, for the "white world" overall yes, things would be better.

For Australia it would have been a disaster. White Australia would have been finished off by the Japs. I have no doubt about that at all.

I am not sure why everyone thinks that. I am sure the Japanese would be content with their East Asia. And rightfully so, they ought to have it. They are essentially the Aryans of the Mongoloid race. :D

As for the answer to the question:

Kali Yuga would have ended several decades earlier, and make no mistake, this time Aryan dominance won't stop at China or Spain. ;)

[Soldier of Wodann]

... Europe would be Pan-Germanic lunatic asylum...after dipleacement and murder of "non-Aryan" Slavs("non -aryan" couse they/we doesn't want to be German slaves oposite to Japans who were German aliance and honourable Aryans;)). Only reasonable man(in German policy in relation to Slavs) was Alfred Rosenberg but nobody wanted to listen him... Who will be next? Probably less valuable elements in European nations...To would realize dream about clean Nordic Europe they would have to kill 4/5 or even more population of Europe...


The Japanese have more in common with Germans than most Slavs ever will. I hate when this point is brought up. The Japanese thrived and lived in almost an identical way as Europeans. They had a solar culture, ruled either by a Monarch or a Holy Order (not unlike the SS or the organizations it was based on), with a strong warrior spirit, culminating in one of the greatest castes in the world, the Samurai. The leaders of Japan wanted to return to this state of purity(albeit technologically continue to advance), and in doing so proved their worth to us true spiritual Europeans.

[TheGreatest]

I am not sure why everyone thinks that. I am sure the Japanese would be content with their East Asia. And rightfully so, they ought to have it. They are essentially the Aryans of the Mongoloid race. :D

As for the answer to the question:

Kali Yuga would have ended several decades earlier, and make no mistake, this time Aryan dominance won't stop at China or Spain. ;)


Spain had been nothing but trouble for the Romans and French. China on the other hand is easily conquerable because most of the population lives on the flat coastal plains.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Depending on how the Axis won, the world would have been left with a multipolar world of:

Germany dominating east/cental Europe, perhaps all of Europe and North Africa
Japan dominating east Asia and the west Pacific
United States dominating the western hemisphere
Italy dominating the Mediterranean

and possibly:
A Britain keeping its empire, if it never entered the war or exited early

A USSR and/or France reduced in power


There would probably have been a more friendly/peaceable competition between the US and Germany, and US policies would have been influenced by the success of Germany towards a racial standpoint instead of towards a multiculturalist standpoint as they were with the 'Cold War' competition with the USSR.

[Soldier of Wodann]

A USSR and/or France reduced in power



The USSR and NS Germany could not exist co-currently. One had to lose. That was the nature of the battle. No peace could be sought.

[TheGreatest]

The USSR and NS Germany could not exist co-currently. One had to lose. That was the nature of the battle. No peace could be sought.


Which I find it odd that a lot of fiction has the National Socialists and Soviet Union surviving together. What's the Soviet Union going to survive on after losing Moscow and the Pacific Coast? At best there would had been a guerilla warfare but I bet the National Socialists would had fixed that easily... ;)

[Revenant]

I am not sure why everyone thinks that. I am sure the Japanese would be content with their East Asia. And rightfully so, they ought to have it. They are essentially the Aryans of the Mongoloid race.

Although it is true there were no actual (according to some historians) official invasion plans by the Japanese it is fairly easy to reach the conclusion that they were going to invade.

They bombed Darwin, they sent subs into Sydney harbor. They had also had basically a cakewalk right through SE Asia, until they got to Kokoda. There's no reason they would have suddenly stopped at the Australian mainland northern border.

Also for me it is hard to envision scenarios that involve say the Allies minus Britain or the Axis minus Japan, etc. They aren't realistic, particularly with regards to the Allies because of relations formed during the WWI, considering WWII was basically a continuation of that. Also if America adopted (continued) a isolationist stance I can't see why they would have helped Australia and not Britain. They would have just retaliated in proportion to Pearl Harbor and left it at that.

[Sarmata]

Actually there were a lot of reasonable men in the German hierarchy. Most of the German generals had opposed the harsh treatment of Slavs. And some Governors such as Albert Forster were quite liberal/pan-Nordoid in their views.

I did not hear nothing good about him...




Ultimately the Anti-Slavic policies were mainly the result of appointing individuals like Heinrich Himmler and Erich Koch. Before the First World War, Koch had been a Russophile Socialist who, like men of his caliber, he had the stern belief that Ukrainians were ''little Russians'' and should be treated as such. And generally everyone had a foul opinion of the Poles back then. He like men of his time (think of my Patton quotes), viewed the Russians as being a disciplined ruthless horde of Mongols, not capable of negotiation and only understanding violence...

Paton sentences looks like wrote by man who doesn't know nothing about Russia, Europe etc. He read once about Gengis Khan and mongols...maybe
It's one of most stupid thing that I ever heard..."little Russians" maybe Pigmeus(?)





The National Socialists drew up figures in the 1937 (Generalplan Ost) and declared insane figures such as 50% of Czechs, 65% of Ukrainians and 80% of Russians would have to be killed or deported.
That just showed how desperate the Germans were in regards to that ''living space'', the Czechs were hardly rebellious in WW2 (though a Czech revisionist will claim otherwise) and didn't deserve such a fate

You try with the help of logics comprehend madness...

[Sarmata]

The Japanese have more in common with Germans than most Slavs ever will. I hate when this point is brought up. The Japanese thrived and lived in almost an identical way as Europeans. They had a solar culture, ruled either by a Monarch or a Holy Order (not unlike the SS or the organizations it was based on), with a strong warrior spirit, culminating in one of the greatest castes in the world, the Samurai. The leaders of Japan wanted to return to this state of purity(albeit technologically continue to advance), and in doing so proved their worth to us true spiritual Europeans.


Looks like it may be true...so long live German-Japanese community:rolleyes:
By the way what is "solar culture"(?) Something like lying on the beach in California? Enjoying sun etc.(?):)

[Atlas]

Probably better but you know, if Hitler had won the WW2, I'd be picking potatoes or digging massgraves for Jews while my mother would have been a hooker for the "master race". So I don't really know.

[TheGreatest]

Probably better but you know, if Hitler had won the WW2, I'd be picking potatoes or digging massgraves for Jews while my mother would have been a hooker for the "master race". So I don't really know.


There were rumors that the National Socialists were planning on using ''Stud Farms'' (confining and impregnating the local women) in order to bring about their Master Race.

[Oisín]

There were rumors that the National Socialists were planning on using ''Stud Farms'' (confining and impregnating the local women) in order to bring about their Master Race.
Any sources for that?

[TheGreatest]

Any sources for that?


How about you open a book and look up Lebensborn? Especially in the Occupied Zones the women weren't give much choice

[Loyalist]

To participate in the Lebensborn was actually a great honour to both parties, as subjects were required to be of the highest racial quality. SS men were recruited and paired with volunteer women from occupied territories (particularly Norway, but also in other Western European nations). Families received the highest quality healthcare available, as well as other perks to encourage their involvement.

[Oisín]

How about you open a book and look up Lebensborn? Especially in the Occupied Zones the women weren't give much choice
The Lebensborn program was set up to help the pregnant partners of SS members and unmarried mothers, there's a huge difference between that and the stud farms you mentioned, you seem to be suggesting that the women in the occupied zones were forced into getting pregnant to breed a master race, that is called rape and I have seen no evidence to support that. In fact it's typical of the kind of nonsense I was taught in school where I was told that Hitler wanted to kill everyone who wasn't a blue eyed blonde.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Which I find it odd that a lot of fiction has the National Socialists and Soviet Union surviving together. What's the Soviet Union going to survive on after losing Moscow and the Pacific Coast? At best there would had been a guerilla warfare but I bet the National Socialists would had fixed that easily... ;)


The USSR and NS Germany could not exist co-currently. One had to lose. That was the nature of the battle. No peace could be sought.

It's possible, especially after 1941, that Germany would be unable to take and hold Moscow. The USSR would also have been unlikely to be able to push Germany back entirely and take Berlin if the heavy bombing of German industrial areas ever stopped and the Normandy invasion did not open a western front to draw German troops away.

It's possible at this point that there could have been a truce. Perhaps after Kursk, if the Germans had managed to halt the Soviet advance but didn't see much prospect for advancement of their own.

A likely result would have been a Russia pretty similar to the current incarnation. Japan's interests were to the south where the natural resources they needed lay, so wouldn't have had much interest in the Pacific coast, and Russia didn't really need that anyways. The USSR would have kept Moscow, southern Russia, Siberia and the hinterlands, with Germany occupying the Baltic coast, and perhaps up to Smolensk, and possibly running puppet states in Ukraine and the Caucasus.

[Cello]

Worse from my perspective, and I think for Austria. Hitler annexed this country to his empire and enforced uniform prussianised culture on the Austrian people. But the worse thing is the tyrrany of nazi ideology. I like a world ideologically in term of freedom more than a nazi occupied country. I don't like being told what to do every step of the way. It's not just Hitler's fault by himself, but the ideologies in general, which were obsessed with Jews and treating people who were different like subhumans. Now we fell into the other extreme, big guilt. Neither is better.

[Cato]

I've got no opinion, which is really how I view Hitler.

[Brännvin]

It would not be that different :coffee:, there would be an uprising, but the world would not ultimately stand for it, and it would level out, or the war would continue with other countries involved and it might turn out as a democracy eventually, or maybe as the worst case scenario everyone would live in oppression and poverty still, or the war would never end (since that the National Socialism was a destructive psychopathic ideology) and people just keep killing each other endlessly, who knows.

[Poltergeist]

It would ultimately usher in a consumer superficial mass-society, similar to the one we have today. Only the path and the methods would have been different.

[Absinthe]

It would ultimately usher in a consumer superficial mass-society, similar to the one we have today. Only the path and the methods would have been different.
You think so..? :(

[Cato]

This kind of question enters into the realm of what-if, such as "What if the Roman empire never fell?" Speculative and often the home of wishful-thinkers and idealists.

I'd rather have lived in Roman times during the golden age than in Nazi Germany, where my skull might not've been the right size and shape or my family tree not Aryan enough. The Nazis had some good ideas, but they seriously bumfucked a whole hell of a lot else.

[SwordoftheVistula]

I'd rather have lived in Roman times during the golden age than in Nazi Germany, where my skull might not've been the right size and shape or my family tree not Aryan enough.

That was just one faction around Himmler that was into all that crazy stuff. The actual Nuremburg laws (citizenship) and eugenics laws weren't all that strict, even 1/4 jewish ancestry was allowed under the Nuremburg laws and only the eugenics laws targeted the retarded and criminals.

[Óttar]

That was just one faction around Himmler that was into all that crazy stuff. The actual Nuremburg laws (citizenship) and eugenics laws weren't all that strict, even 1/4 jewish ancestry was allowed under the Nuremburg laws and only the eugenics laws targeted the retarded and criminals.
On the one hand, supposing I was born the way I was born in my present incarnation, I wouldn't have made it (I was born premature with a strep infection, mild cerebral palsy, I clinically died a number of times etc.), it would've been a world without me. On the other hand, if I was born in Nazi Germany, the hospital would've never had an incompetent doctor, with a filthy environment which had run out of Caesarian tools.

The logical problem with alternative history scenarios is that you don't just hypothetically change "x" event, but by changing "x" event you create "x1" which sets off a chain of alternate events which never existed that compound on each other. The results of this one change and its effects being ultimately inconceivable. Logic aside, theory and alternative history novels are still interesting. :D

[asulf]

hello,
And so .... And so ..... all this is that extrapolations and circumstances we theorize CAR I'm sure necessarily suggest elements of unknown factors or model a reality probably much different from what we
The only way to know Is Crossing the vortex and visit the multiverse and a parallel reality or reich aurra Won
do not lose hope we have been successful teleportation on a meter in the laboratory may be one day we s'aurons Traveling In spatio-temporal gaps,
en attedant I remain cautious and vote for the third choice.

[Ariets]

How do you think the world would've been if Hitler had won WW2?



"What if"? Well I can say that debates like that have no sense and any value at all, we have one timeline history and you cannot change it nevermind how much you would like to.

And personally I'd say that Hitler could not win whole WW2, cause only a moron (like him) attacks all neighbors and all world around at the same time. Face it, from strategical and tactical point of view he was complete idiot, moron and amateur. Be realist he had no chances.

Beside's his racial, social and economical policy was a total absurd and crap.

Even if you still belief that Hitler could won then after years of occupation he would be most hated person in history by all nations within Europe and propabaly outside of it, Europe would become kind of Palestine and place of mass terrorizing. Hundrets or thousands of uprising's, acts of terror (thats how would nazi propaganda call it), assasinations of Hitler and the nazi elite (thats more than sure). Germans would become Soviet like pan-germanic (but not so really pan-germanic) "Union of The National Socialistic Republics", quite similar to plans of European Union. Nazis would become same or worse than stalinists. But after some years they would be die by natural death, just like USSR, then Germans would be really fucked up and treated really badly.


That is my point of view as well.


You don't know Murphy's law?



It would not be that different , there would be an uprising, but the world would not ultimately stand for it, and it would level out, or the war would continue with other countries involved and it might turn out as a democracy eventually, or maybe as the worst case scenario everyone would live in oppression and poverty still, or the war would never end (since that the National Socialism was a destructive psychopathic ideology) and people just keep killing each other endlessly, who knows.

Agreed.


[b]The Japanese have more in common with Germans than most Slavs ever will.
Yeah, I totally agree on that! Heinrich Himmler was a living proof of ancient link between mongoloids and Germans!
http://www.wo2militaryranks.nl/images/Images_SS_personen/Heinrich_Himmler.jpg

[Liffrea]

It’s pretty difficult to extrapolate back to a given date in history and say “what if”. What if Harold had won at Hastings in 1066, what if the Duke of Parma’s army landed in Kent in 1588, what if Lee had won at Gettysburg in 1863……

The further you go back the more difficulties. Personally I believe the big what if for Second World War history is what if Hitler hadn’t invaded the USSR in 1941? It’s also the most nonsensical, Hitler’s intention was always to create lebensraum in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union, there was simply no likelihood that he wouldn’t have invaded the USSR. It’s also pretty difficult, as a result, to see how the Wehrmacht would have prevailed over the Red Army.

Many would argue that England could have, and should have, stayed out of the war. I believe they could have for a while, there is no real indication from what I understand that Hitler had any ambitions against the UK, indeed he even offered German troops to preserve the British Empire, which is interesting given our “special friends” the Americans did everything possible to destroy the British Empire and Roosevelt was reluctant to shed the blood of a single Yankee trooper to defend it. In 1939 Britain could have stayed out of the war, could we have stayed out by the late 1940’s when Hitler (if by some sequence of improbable events he defeated Stalin) moved to settle accounts with France? Probably not, Britain had to go to war in 1914 to prevent the Germans controlling the Rhine and the French Channel coast; we would have had to have done so again if Hitler wanted to punish France, we probably would have lost.

The likely event is that if Britain hadn’t gone to war in 1939 Germany would still have lost and it’s highly likely that Soviet troops would have been on the Rhine, if not on the Channel coast. Given how quickly the extreme Left infiltrated European politics post 1945 with the backlash against nationalism, the takeover of the Left with the proximity of Soviet forces would have been assured, with Britain either a dependency of Moscow if not directly controlled America could have done little.

If Germany had won or managed to hold it’s conquests in Europe I don’t see much that would have prevented the complete collapse of their empire with Hitler’s eventual death, the Nazis weren’t really an ideology, they were, by and large, a one man show. Remember that Hitler hadn’t wanted to control Western Europe or Scandinavia, the haphazard way these regions were occupied demonstrates that the Nazis didn’t have much of a plan.

Personally I don’t see any of the likely scenarios as encouraging, at least from a British point of view.

[Brännvin]

The Japanese have more in common with Germans than most Slavs ever will. I hate when this point is brought up.

Seriously, one of the most ignorant comments I've read here. Germans, or better Germanic people along with Slavs may possibly be traced back their roots to the Corded Ware culture.




The Japanese thrived and lived in almost an identical way as Europeans.

Tell that to a Japanese person, he/she will take it as an offense.

[Óttar]

http://www.wo2militaryranks.nl/images/Images_SS_personen/Heinrich_Himmler.jpghttp://home.nps.gov/pwr/customcf/apps/ww2ip/assets/images/event/detail/main_1944tojo.jpg
:cool:

Himmler = Mongoloid. No one can say nay.

[Ariets]

http://home.nps.gov/pwr/customcf/apps/ww2ip/assets/images/event/detail/main_1944tojo.jpg
:cool:

Himmler = Mongoloid. No one can say nay.
separated at birth :D lol

[Óttar]

Tell that to a Japanese person, he/she will take it as an offense.
Au contraire, in the 19th and 20th centuries (perhaps even today) they would be flattered. The Japanese were very quick to adopt Western technology wholeheartedly. One Japanese ambassador even suggested bringing in blonde haired, blue eyed English women in order to infuse the Japanese with European blood. Many Japanese took to meat eating to imitate Europeans and become strong like them. During the Meiji Era, the Japanese brought in German lawyers, economists, and engineers. The Meiji constitution was drafted by a German lawyer. The Japanese justified the conquest of the Chinese, i.e. the same people who introduced Confucianism to them centuries earlier, by claiming they were superior and the rightful rulers of a united East Asia.

Even to this day, my friend who knows a Japanese person, asked him why the Japanese have so whole heartedly adopted American technology and aspects of their culture. The man replied: "You defeated us in war, we figure you must be superior." :D

[Cato]

Did the Japanese emulate westerners to become "one of the gang" or because they wanted to become the top dogs of Asia? I don't think it was out of envy that they copied western ways so well.

[Brännvin]

I'm not sure about it, as far as I know the Japanese nationalism has a strong anti-western bias.

I posted already on another thread but is quite interesting to illustrate; Japanese McDonald's makes fun of "white people" (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/94000-Japanese-McDonalds-Makes-Fun-of-White-People)

[Grumpy Cat]

I put "no opinion" but I really think it would have been the same.

I actually had discussions about this before. The moral zeitgeist would have went the same way, the only difference is we would be overlooking what Hitler did to the Jews but would be condemning the allied forces for their atrocities, which we overlook (ie what was done to the Native Americans).

[Cato]

The Hitlerfap crowd might see a Nazi victory as a good thing, but I'm not so sure. That's why I compared it to alternate what-if history. Would the world be better off for whites? It's hard to say, because a Nazi victory would've been limited mainly to Europe and the western portions of Eurasia- what of places like the US? Perhaps a cold war would've developed between Germany and the US. This is a staple of certain forms of "Third Reich" what-if history.

[Murphy]

I think the situation would have been just like that of Spain and Portugal. Franco and Salazar were the ones who kept their nations together, much like Hitler and Germany. When Hitler would have died—working under the assumption of an Axis victory—then I think his empire would have crumbled beneath him. I just don't think Nazism is an ideology that could out last its charismatic leader.

Regards,
Eóin.

[Cato]

Hitlerism might've continued without Hitler, but it probably would've would up like Caesarism did in Rome. Augustus, like Hitler, ruled while maintaining a pretsense of democracy. After Auggie's death, the trend continued for a little while with some very good emperors and some pretty shitty ones, but eventually turned into a corrupt autocracy.

[Germanicus]

I imagine a victory for Germany in WWII would have meant a much weaker Britain so they would no longer be occupying the north east of Ireland, other than that I don't think Ireland would have been affected too much. Apart from some nice pro-Irish propaganda films I don't think Hitler had too much of an interest in Ireland. Throughout WWII we remained on good diplomatic terms with the Third Reich and De Valera refused to join the Allies despite enormous pressure from the UK so perhaps he would have rewarded us some land in England, that would have been nice.

Hmmmm there is a flaw in your logic.
1941 saw America enter the conflict, Britain had given most of it's gold reserve to pay for arms, tanks and ships, Roosavelt and the American public wrongly thought that Britain was a wealthy country.
America sent a warship to South Africa to collect the last £500 million of Gold bullion that Britain owned, still America wanted all of Britains wealth, so the American goverment was given all companies and investments to be auctioned to the business community in America, it was basically bought for whatever they wanted to buy it for.
In the end Churchill was ready to melt down all the nations Gold wedding rings to pay for more munitions as the last resort, but in the end the senate agreed the lend lease agreement.
Churchill would have given the Gold rings, but it would have shamed America for all time.
WW2 and the financial cost to the British public was immense, Tony Blair before he left office repaid £30 billion, Maggie Thatcher repaid another £30 in the 80s.
From being a world power we became a 2nd class country, which was what America wanted, the industrial power was erased by 2 wars in 27 years.
We could have defied Hitler and just defended the country into a draw.
Russia had a treaty with Hitler so it would have been interesting to see what would have happened to Europe if Churchill and Britain would have just wrung their hands?

[SwordoftheVistula]

Based on Germany's treatment of 'pacified' countries France and Czechoslovakia, it seems likely that some sort of combination NATO/EU would have emerged with Germany as the leader. Hitler was a pragmatist during the 30s, and internally the country would probably have resembled modern Japan or South Korea with a dominant party and state-guided industries with Krupps, VW, BMW/BFW, IG Farben etc playing the role of Sony and Mitsubishi (Japan) or Daewoo, Hyundai, and Samsung (South Korea).


I'm not sure about it, as far as I know the Japanese nationalism has a strong anti-western bias.

They still like NS Germany, dolls of SS men are found in every comic shop, swazistika flags and pendants are sold by almost every street vendor except for the Israeli ones (there are a lot of Israeli street vendors in Tokyo/Japan for some reason).


I actually had discussions about this before. The moral zeitgeist would have went the same way, the only difference is we would be overlooking what Hitler did to the Jews but would be condemning the allied forces for their atrocities, which we overlook (ie what was done to the Native Americans).

Hitler was an admirer of the way the Anglos conquered North America. The 'villains' if Germany won WWII would have been the air bombing campaigns against civilians of WWII, the actions of France/Britain/Italy after WWI, and Napoleon.

[Nosi]

If Hitler had won WWII communism would have been snuffed out and Europe would be free of the waves of third world immigrants.

[Amarantine]

Probably all Montengrin population would be killed, becouse of our "unobediency", they proclaimed "for one dead German soldier-100 dead Montenegrins (civilians)", but Montenergins continued with fights with full support of population:P

But in the case, Musolini was instead of Hitler...hmmm may be we would think about our defence:P

[Poltergeist]

If Hitler had won WWII communism would have been snuffed out and Europe would be free of the waves of third world immigrants.

...with millions of mindless robots bowing before Fuehrer? How lovely!

[Phlegethon]

Everyone would speak German and Germans would have plenty of parking lots all over Europe. And we'd all be wearing fancy uniforms. ;)

[Amarantine]

Everyone would speak German and Germans would have plenty of parking lots all over Europe. And we'd all be wearing fancy uniforms. ;)

fancy uniforms with so many variaty of lovely and vivid colors, from black and dark brown to even light brown:D
for Italians would be permitted green, but just for them!

[Poltergeist]

Occupation of all beaches, with towels, early in the morning happens even without Hitler's victory anyway.

[Amarantine]

Occupation of all beaches, with towels, early in the morning happens even without Hitler's victory anyway.

I don t get this?!

[Poltergeist]

I don t get this?!

In Mediterranean countries Germans on holiday were famous for their occupation of the whole beach in the morning, so that locals could hardly find a place where to put their own towels in case they wanted to go to the beach and have some sun and take a bath in the sea. No matter how early you come to the beach, the conclusion is always the same: "Damn it. The Germans have already taken all places on the beach." It was then ascribed to German "efficiency" and organizational spirit.

An old joke and stereotype, nothing serious. :P

[Amarantine]

In Mediterranean countries Germans on holiday were famous for their occupation of the whole beach in the morning, so that locals could hardly find a place where to put their own towels in case they wanted to go to the beach and have some sun and take a bath in the sea. No matter how early you come to the beach, the conclusion is always the same: "Damn it. The Germans have already taken all places on the beach." It was then ascribed to German "efficiency" and organizational spirit.

An old joke and stereotype, nothing serious. :P


Oh that! Then this is prove that turism in Mne failed:P

[Phlegethon]

In Mediterranean countries Germans on holiday were famous for their occupation of the whole beach in the morning, so that locals could hardly find a place where to put their own towels in case they wanted to go to the beach and have some sun and take a bath in the sea.

The early bird catches the worm. And at least we come with towels. Don't make us come with tanks. ;)

[The Lawspeaker]

In Mediterranean countries Germans on holiday were famous for their occupation of the whole beach in the morning, so that locals could hardly find a place where to put their own towels in case they wanted to go to the beach and have some sun and take a bath in the sea. No matter how early you come to the beach, the conclusion is always the same: "Damn it. The Germans have already taken all places on the beach." It was then ascribed to German "efficiency" and organizational spirit.

An old joke and stereotype, nothing serious. :P
Same here lol.

[The Lawspeaker]

The Netherlands would have been done for. We might have been re-united with Flanders but our independence would have been over and we would have been absorbed into the Greater German Reich as a "Aryan brother-nation" and become a part of Hitler Germany. And the House of Orange would probably have been in exile in Canada.- being the "brave" people they are they wouldn't have wanted to share the fate of their people.

Granted- many of the problems we would have today would not exist but we would have been little better off then the Baltic States after they got their independence. We would have had Germans all over the place- not very different from the Russians in Latvia and Estonia.
The Dutch language would have been partially destroyed by the influx of the Germanicisms, our works of art would have been in Hitler's private museum in Linz and our provincial system would not have survived since we would have become a part of Hitler's Reich.

http://toondierdorp.nl/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/nederlandse-vlag.jpg
This flag would no longer fly above the Netherlands, the West Indies (they might have become independent) and the East Indies (taken over by the Japanese) and consigned to the dustbin of history.

This would have been our new flag:
http://www.jewcy.com/files/images/jewcy.swastika%20flag.mid-size.gif

[Amarantine]

http://toondierdorp.nl/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/nederlandse-vlag.jpg
This flag would no longer fly above the Netherlands, the West Indies (they might have become independent) and the East Indies (taken over by the Japanese) and consigned to the dustbin of history.



Oh God, how many countries exactly have three color combination, flags? I will start to think about certain conspiracy concerning these flags:D

The last flag is still pain in my eyes.

[Phlegethon]

We should all fly the Jolly Roger instead.

[Groenewolf]

The Netherlands would have been done for. We might have been re-united with Flanders but our independence would have been over and we would have been absorbed into the Greater German Reich as a "Aryan brother-nation" and become a part of Hitler Germany.

Unless, extremely minor change, Mussert would be successful in his campaign to preserve Dutch independence.


And the House of Orange would probably have been in exile in Canada.- being the "brave" people they are they wouldn't have wanted to share the fate of their people.

Let's not talk about those republicans who started to rise their right arms and said we should become part of the 1000th Year Reich, or where working for Stalin.


http://toondierdorp.nl/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/nederlandse-vlag.jpg
This flag would no longer fly above the Netherlands, the West Indies (they might have become independent) and the East Indies (taken over by the Japanese) and consigned to the dustbin of history.

Witch only became the official flag in 1937. Before that it was a free choice, whether you choose the Prinsenflag or the flag used by those who collaborated with the French revolutionaries and later with Napaleon.

[safinator]

Difficult to say.

[GermanicFarmer]

A much better world for us people, Europe would be how it should be and we would have a great leader which we can't say about any politicians these days.

Everything that is told now is mostly war time and allied propaganda about Hitler and the Nazi party/Nazism..history is written by the winners and the victors tell the stories.

National Socialism is a fantastic ideology for us Aryans.

If he had won, he would be hailed a hero everywhere as nobody would know any different... he was and is the greatest leader of all time.

I like what his sister Paula said -

Paula Hitler wrote: “Adolf was the greatest son of our Austrian homeland” and “for Germany he always wanted the best.” (October 12 and December 28, 1957.) In her most famous statement, she wrote to German newspapers:

Gentlemen!

Never forget this: Your names will long be forgotten even before your bodies have rotted away in the earth. But the name Adolf Hitler will still be a light in the darkness.

You cannot murder him by drowning his memory in your slop-buckets and you cannot strangle him with your filthy, ink-stained fingers. His name exists forever in hundreds of thousands of souls.

You are far too insignificant to even touch him.

He loved Germany, he fretted over Germany. When he fought for honor and respect it was for German honor, for respect for Germany and when there was nothing left, he gave Germany his life.

What have you given so far? Which one of you would give his life for Germany? The only things you care about are riches, power and never-ending luxury items. When you think of Germany, you think of indulging your senses without responsibility, without cares?

Trust me on this: The Fuehrer’s utter unselfishness in word and deed alone guarantees his immortality. The fact that the bitter fight for Germany’s greatness wasn’t crowned by success, as with Cromwell’s in Britain, has a lot to do with the mentality of the people involved.

On the one hand the Englishman’s character is essentially unfair, ruled by jealousy, self-importance, and a lack of consideration. But he never forgets he is an Englishman, loyal to his people and to his crown. On the other hand, the German with his need for recognition is never first and foremost a German.

Therefore it doesn’t matter to you, you insignificant beings, if you destroy the entire nation. Your only guiding thought will always be: me first, me second, me third.

In your worthlessness, you will never think of the welfare of the nation – and with that pitiful philosophy you wish to prevent the immortality of a giant?

Paula Hitler, Berchtesgaden , May, 1st. 1957

[brunette]

How do you think the world and your country specific would've been if Hitler had won WW2?

How about you take me instead?

[Siegfried]

How about you take me instead?

Please cut the trolling.

[brunette]

That was serious he's hot. Damn, if you want me to answer the question I think it would be pretty much the same as it is now.

[Vixen]

This thread made me think of:
0lpY0Kt4bn8

[Hess]

How would the world have been if Hitler won?

great for Germans, decent for Western Europeans, and pretty shitty for everyone else.

[brunette]

Lol that show sucks they put it on every day here. We got rid of the nightmare ''Friends'' and now we get that and Family Guy and all that bollocks.

[brunette]

How would the world have been if Hitler won?

great for Germans, decent for Western Europeans, and pretty shitty for everyone else.

Meh, you only know what you've been told.

[cossackpride]

The Germans enslaved some of the Channel Island inhabitants during the war. William L. Shirer also stated that the Germans had plans to conscript English men for labour, had Operation Sea Lion been successful.

Not any different than how French POWs during WWII were kept in camps until they were liberated until 1944 (we're talking over a million young men) just so they couldn't father babies.


What a wonderful future indeed. A German boot on everyone's neck. :rolleyes:

[Siegfried]

The real purpose of this thread is to have a heated debate about whether or not the world would be better had Hitler won since most of us already know the ways other members think.

As for me, you already know my answer.

[Mortimer]

For me worse of course

[GermanicFarmer]

How would the world have been if Hitler won?

great for Germans, decent for Western Europeans, and pretty shitty for everyone else.

Hitler liked all Europeans (except some Slavs not all), the Nordic Aryans were seen as the most purest but he still loved our fellow comrade Whites like Greeks, Spaniards, Italians, etc etc and they are Southern Europeans not Western.

Who would it have been shit for? Elaborate.

[arcticwolf]

Shitty for all of us who love freedom. Not a fan of dictators, I admire men like Solon the Greek, Thomas Jefferson etc, truly wise men who loved liberty.

[Mortimer]

Hitler liked all Europeans (except some Slavs not all), the Nordic Aryans were seen as the most purest but he still loved our fellow comrade Whites like Greeks, Spaniards, Italians, etc etc and they are Southern Europeans not Western.

Who would it have been shit for? Elaborate.

among europeans for poles and russians certainly

[Siegfried]

among europeans for poles and russians certainly

Hitler in his anniversary report to the Reichstag on January 30, 1934:

For this reason and with these intentions the German Government has
endeavoured in its first year to secure a new and better relationship
with the Polish State.

When I took over the government on 30 January, the relations between
the two countries seemed to me more than unsatisfactory. There was a
danger that the existing differences, which were due to the territorial
clauses of the Treaty of Versailles and the mutual tension resulting
therefrom, would gradually crystallize into a state of hostility which
if persisted in might only too easily acquire the character of a
dangerous traditional enmity.

Apart from its latent dangers such a development would constitute a
permanent obstacle to the profitable cooperation of the two peoples.
Germans and Poles will have to learn to accept the fact of each other's
existence. Hence it is more sensible to regulate this state of affairs
which the last thousand years has not been able to remove and the next
thousand will not be able to remove either, in such a way that the
highest possible profit will accrue from it for both nations.

[morski]

Hitler didn't like all Slavs, he said that we're untermenschen. Well I don't like him either :disapproving

Yet nazis worked together with Bulgarians, Croats, Bosniaks, Ukrainians...

[Mortimer]

Hitler in his anniversary report to the Reichstag on January 30, 1934:

For this reason and with these intentions the German Government has
endeavoured in its first year to secure a new and better relationship
with the Polish State.

When I took over the government on 30 January, the relations between
the two countries seemed to me more than unsatisfactory. There was a
danger that the existing differences, which were due to the territorial
clauses of the Treaty of Versailles and the mutual tension resulting
therefrom, would gradually crystallize into a state of hostility which
if persisted in might only too easily acquire the character of a
dangerous traditional enmity.

Apart from its latent dangers such a development would constitute a
permanent obstacle to the profitable cooperation of the two peoples.
Germans and Poles will have to learn to accept the fact of each other's
existence. Hence it is more sensible to regulate this state of affairs
which the last thousand years has not been able to remove and the next
thousand will not be able to remove either, in such a way that the
highest possible profit will accrue from it for both nations.

what he said and what he did two different worlds, he also said he is for peace and never wants a war, americans fight for freedom of iraqi people too

[arcticwolf]

Yet nazis worked together with Bulgarians, Croats, Bosniaks, Ukrainians...

There is something to be proud of. :rolleyes:

[GermanicFarmer]

Also remember there is two versions of Hitler, the real one and the created version, many people will just believe the fairy tales and the urban legend bullshit about him and the Nazi party, ignorant and naive fools.

Hitler is a man of a kind, will always be remembered, whether it is for good or bad.

Funny how everything what is told is propaganda as well nobody ever mentions the positives.

Hey, even landing on the moon wouldn't have been possible without the V2 rocket and look at how much fame the landing on the moon gets!

Nazi Germany was also the first place to discover the link between tobacco and lung cancer.

Hitler crushed the unemployment of Germany as well, the Germans (of today) seem to forget that there would be no Volkswagen, Autobahn or anything like that without him, he also banned animal hunting and public smoking.

I could go on for hours about him, a great man.

Watch his speeches online, I doubt anyone speaks like him no more neither. :)

[Vixen]

People often have two very opposing views of Hitler; that he was either a hero or a monster. I think both sides are exaggerated. People are very passionate about Nazism, either they are strongly for or against it, and WWII is a subject that elicits strong emotional reactions from people so it is hard to look at things from a neutral perspective.

[morski]

There is something to be proud of. :rolleyes:

That fact has nothing to do with pride but geopolitics, foreign relations and national interests.:wink

[Siegfried]

what he said and what he did two different worlds, he also said he is for peace and never wants a war, americans fight for freedom of iraqi people too

Did he not make a peace appeal to Britain on the 19th of July, 1940, which the British rejected? Did he not propose a corridor connecting Germany proper to Danzig which Poland did not agree to?

[GermanicFarmer]

People often have two very opposing views of Hitler; that he was either a hero or a monster. I think both sides are exaggerated. People are very passionate about Nazism, either they are strongly for or against it, and WWII is a subject that elicits strong emotional reactions from people so it is hard to look at things from a neutral perspective.

I actually agree with what you are saying very much but unfortunately people a lot these days believe the "negative side" of him and think he only wanted blonde hair and blue eyed Germans for example.. yet he would have loved you and you are White and would have been considered Aryan, yet you aren't a blonde hair blue eyed German, hehe! :thumb001:

Just using you as an example, hope you don't mind! :thumb001:

[Turkophagos]

How do you think the world would've been if Hitler had won WW2?


http://flickfeast.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Battle-For-The-Planet-Of-The-Apes.jpg

[Vixen]

I actually agree with what you are saying very much but unfortunately people a lot these days believe the "negative side" of him and think he only wanted blonde hair and blue eyed Germans for example.. yet he would have loved you and you are White and would have been considered Aryan, yet you aren't a blonde hair blue eyed German, hehe! :thumb001:

Just using you as an example, hope you don't mind! :thumb001:

No, not at all :)
And I agree that there were many posistive aspects about National Socialism that people ignore or try to downplay.

[GermanicFarmer]

No, not at all :)
And I agree that there were many posistive aspects about National Socialism that people ignore or try to downplay.

Exactly, of course he made mistakes (biggest one was invading Russia of course) he was only human... but overall he was a great leader and he didn't get that many people behind him through the click of his fingers for no reason, he was a man who people were attracted to and wanted him as their leader.

One of the greatest German patriots throughout history as well.

"Hitler will emerge from the hatred that surrounds him now as one of the most significant figures who ever lived... he had a mystery about him in the way that he lived and in the manner of his death that will live and grow after him. He had in him the stuff of which legends are made."

- John F. Kennedy,
President of the
United States of America

I think that is correct as people are starting to wake up and study a different side to him, not the bullshit version and stuff about him.

One of the most annoying myths and people try and claim Hitler was a hypocrite is that he was part Jewish himself, this is nothing but utter rubbish, anti-Nazi propaganda that has no evidence to support it - just a rumour.

Hitler's ancestry were ethnic Germans, not Jews.

[ricko0812]

no disrespect to all the hitler fans out there but being the freeedom loving person i am, i couldnt imagine being repressed and dominated under the third reich.

[GermanicFarmer]

no disrespect to all the hitler fans out there but being the freeedom loving person i am, i couldnt imagine being repressed and dominated under the third reich.

Your opinion.

[Peyrol]

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090219102137/nonciclopedia/images/c/cc/Neuropa.jpg

http://hitlertriumphant.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/nazi-europe1.jpg

[ricko0812]

Your opinion.


yes it is, and many others. To each his or her own

[GermanicFarmer]

Hitler didn't like all Slavs, he said that we're untermenschen. Well I don't like him either :disapproving

Why?

[Hess]

Hitler liked all Europeans (except some Slavs not all)

from Hitler's Table Talk, pages 34-35


When one contemplates this primitive world, one is convinced that nothing will drag it out of its indolence unless one compels the people to work. The Slavs are a mass of born slaves, who feel the need of a master. As far as we are concerned, we may think that the Bolsheviks did us a great service. They began by distributing the land to the peasants, and we know what a frightful famine resulted. So they were obliged, of course, to re-establish a sort of feudal régime, to the benefit of the State. But there was this difference, that, whereas the old-style landlord knew something about farming, the political commissar, on the other hand, was entirely ignorant of such matters. So the Russians were just beginning to give their commissars appropriate instruction.

BTW, the only Slavs he tolerated were the Croats, and that's because he saw them as more Germanic than Slavic.


the Nordic Aryans were seen as the most purest but he still loved our fellow comrade Whites like Greeks, Spaniards, Italians, etc etc and they are Southern Europeans not Western.

Love is a very strong. I suspect his only reason for embracing Southern Europeans is that he just needed more fodder for his fight against the allies


Who would it have been shit for? Elaborate.

For starters, All Slavs except Croats.

[Pallantides]

Funny thing is Hitler would have had much stronger genetic affinity with Slavs than he would Swedes, I wonder what he'd think of that. :D

[Lisa]

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090219102137/nonciclopedia/images/c/cc/Neuropa.jpg

http://hitlertriumphant.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/nazi-europe1.jpg

Your nickname is disgusting . You maybe also bastard....

[Xavier-Ferdinand]

Haha, love the confused Nazis in this thread. You and your Jewish ideology was crushed and destroyed. Your leading figures either commited suicide as cowards or were hanged.

Now only socialists/communists need the same treatment since they are people from the same coin.

Enemies of European culture and Christianity.

[GermanicFarmer]

Hitler didn't like all Slavs, he said that we're untermenschen. Well I don't like him either :disapproving


from Hitler's Table Talk, pages 34-35



BTW, the only Slavs he tolerated were the Croats, and that's because he saw them as more Germanic than Slavic.



Love is a very strong. I suspect his only reason for embracing Southern Europeans is that he just needed more fodder for his fight against the allies



For starters, All Slavs except Croats.

He also said many Slavs could be Germanized.

No, Southern Europeans are White and are "Aryan" under Nazi Germany as they are Indo-Europeans.


Funny thing is Hitler would have had much stronger genetic affinity with Slavs than he would Swedes, I wonder what he'd think of that. :D

How do you work that out? His family wasn't of Slavic descent, they were of German descent.


Haha, love the confused Nazis in this thread. You and your Jewish ideology was crushed and destroyed. Your leading figures either commited suicide as cowards or were hanged.

Now only socialists/communists need the same treatment since they are people from the same coin.

Enemies of European culture and Christianity.

Hitler killed himself to avoid torture anybody else would have done the same.

People like you are the enemies, you spout stuff you have no idea what you are talking about, I look forward to seeing your reply on the other thread of mine you replied to, please don't forget to cite what you say! :wink

[Pallantides]

How do you work that out? His family wasn't of Slavic descent, they were of German descent.


I participate in various genetic projects and have seen the results of Scandinavians, Germans, Austrians, Poles, Hungarians and so forth, let us just say most of the Germans are closer to Hungarians than they are Scandinavians though many North Germans show affinity with Danes and South Swedes.

[GermanicFarmer]

I participate in various genetic projects and have seen the results of Scandinavians, Germans, Austrians, Poles, Hungarians and so forth, let us just say most of the Germans are closer to Hungarians than they are Scandinavians though many North Germans show affinity with Danes and South Swedes.

Wanna show me some of these genetic projects then?

Also if you go into ethnicity and ethno-linguistics the Austrians are considered Germans, the same way North and South Koreans are considered just Koreans, or Northern Irish and Southern Irish are just considered Irish.

[KidMulat]

erased

[Chronos]

Its been said before by enlightened individuals that Germany was destined to become / fulfill the role of the new Roman Empire.

But naturally the US had to stick its nose in WW1 while Germans were very close to being victorious.

In the same way the conquistadors stopped the development of the American civilizations, we can thank the bankers across the Atlantic for stagnating the natural development of history in our small piece of land called Europa.

"Never say never", though; the time is still ripe. We must continue fighting the good fight, against all odds, in this Iron Age we live in. Anyone who is standing among the ruins in today's modern world in the name of what comes from above will be a greater hero than the ones in the ages before. As it was written on the Kamikaze aircraft:

"You are gods who are free from all human yearnings."

[Methmatician]

If Hitler had won, some European ethnicities would have been eventually exterminated from Europe.

[Xavier-Ferdinand]

He also said many Slavs could be Germanized.

No, Southern Europeans are White and are "Aryan" under Nazi Germany as they are Indo-Europeans.



How do you work that out? His family wasn't of Slavic descent, they were of German descent.



Hitler killed himself to avoid torture anybody else would have done the same.

People like you are the enemies, you spout stuff you have no idea what you are talking about, I look forward to seeing your reply on the other thread of mine you replied to, please don't forget to cite what you say! :wink

You clueless Nazi. You are traitors to the European race and Christian Europe.

To claim Hitler was Catholic is as stupid as claiming Blacks are Whites.

It because of you traitors that Europe allowed countless of immigrants to settle in Europe because we Europeans felt guilt.

You ideology is a Jewish invention and is the from the same coin as communism.

You both belong to proletarian ideologies that are supported by clueless and insignificant people who lick to suck Jewish balls in the 21th century.

I would be ashamed of you, if I was English. An enemy of the European race and Christian Europe and a Jewish ideology supporter and a supporter of clueless racial ideologies that do not correspondent to the reality.

If I owned this forum I would ban nazis and communists like you within a second. Luckily for you there is a Nazi moderator here (as disturbing as it sounds)

Hitler was a little sexually frustrated Jew with African admixture who commited suicide like a coward and lost the war and his mind in the process. Moreover, since he commited suicide, he will be doomed in hellfire.

Please change your religion to Jewish ideology and socialism. You can't be a Roman Catholic and Nazi at the same time.

[Pallantides]

Wanna show me some of these genetic projects then?

I have marked the Austrians:
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/webga101.png

[GermanicFarmer]

You clueless Nazi. You are traitors to the European race and Christian Europe.

To claim Hitler was Catholic is as stupid as claiming Blacks are Whites.

It because of you traitors that Europe allowed countless of immigrants to settle in Europe because we Europeans felt guilt.

You ideology is a Jewish invention and is the from the same coin as communism.

You both belong to proletarian ideologies that are supported by clueless and insignificant people who lick to suck Jewish balls in the 21th century.

I would be ashamed of you, if I was English. An enemy of the European race and Christian Europe and a Jewish ideology supporter and a supporter of clueless racial ideologies that do not correspondent to the reality.

If I owned this forum I would ban nazis and communists like you within a second. Luckily for you there is a Nazi moderator here (as disturbing as it sounds)

Hitler was a little sexually frustrated Jew with African admixture who commited suicide like a coward and lost the war and his mind in the process. Moreover, since he commited suicide, he will be doomed in hellfire.

Please change your religion to Jewish ideology and socialism. You can't be a Roman Catholic and Nazi at the same time.

Since when is "European" a race? At least use the correct terms please.

Secondly, whether you like to admit it or not Adolf Hitler was raised and considered himself a Catholic, why are you in denial about it?

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so," he told Gerhard Engel, one of his generals, in 1941.

How is National Socialism a Jewish invention... please show me some evidence to back that up... chop chop! :clap2:

Adolf Hitler was not a "sexually frustrated Jew with African admixture" I've told you read the other thread you participated in, if you even read your alleged evidence it even states "may" the DNA found wasn't even his you moron... it is also found on 85% of Europeans.

Sexually frustrated? No he had a long term partner (short time wife) who he adored, are you single and upset?

He killed himself to avoid torture by the red army, common sense.

Hitler did not want war like what happened and offered alliance with many people for example he admired the British people and their empire and was shocked when they declared war on him, he offered peace several times.

You would be banning people because they don't agree with what you say? These people you call show more intelligence than you and its rather funny how you can never refute anything I say besides spout more bullshit...show evidence to what you say.

Why can you not be a Catholic and a National Socialist at the same time?

Just under half of the Germans during the Third Reich were Catholics.


I have marked the Austrians:
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/webga101.png

I can't enlarge the picture...can you give me a direct link or something?

[Pallantides]

I can't enlarge the picture...can you give me a direct link or something?

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/693/webga101.png

[Osprey]

Tall, Blond and Nordic Germanic Men would have been at the top of the Attractiveness Ladder and women would have flocked to them resulting in spreading of Nordic genes.
But as Hitler lost the war, Germanic women were first paired with Atlantid Men (tall, dark and handsome), then with Jewboys and now finally with Blacks.
Strangley, the female ideal remained the same, AngloSaxon Woman with blond hair and gracile features.

[ricko0812]

talking about all this nazi stuff got me wanting to play the board game axis and allies:D

[Insuperable]

Since when is "European" a race? At least use the correct terms please.

Secondly, whether you like to admit it or not Adolf Hitler was raised and considered himself a Catholic, why are you in denial about it?

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so," he told Gerhard Engel, one of his generals, in 1941.

How is National Socialism a Jewish invention... please show me some evidence to back that up... chop chop! :clap2:

Adolf Hitler was not a "sexually frustrated Jew with African admixture" I've told you read the other thread you participated in, if you even read your alleged evidence it even states "may" the DNA found wasn't even his you moron... it is also found on 85% of Europeans.

Sexually frustrated? No he had a long term partner (short time wife) who he adored, are you single and upset?

He killed himself to avoid torture by the red army, common sense.

Hitler did not want war like what happened and offered alliance with many people for example he admired the British people and their empire and was shocked when they declared war on him, he offered peace several times.

You would be banning people because they don't agree with what you say? These people you call show more intelligence than you and its rather funny how you can never refute anything I say besides spout more bullshit...show evidence to what you say.

Why can you not be a Catholic and a National Socialist at the same time?

Just under half of the Germans during the Third Reich were Catholics.



I can't enlarge the picture...can you give me a direct link or something?

Hitler was a Catholic only by tradition not by faith

[Siegfried]

Hitler was a Catholic only by tradition not by faith

And by faith he was what?

[Insuperable]

And by faith he was what?

By faith he was an atheist.
He did not believe in anything what is said in the Bible or anything that happened 2000 years ago.

The same thing is with Breivik who wrote in his manuscript that he is Christian only by tradition but he does not believe in anything supernatural according to the Bible and so on...

[Arsen_]

Well if we look objectively and without emotions Hitler was a biggest ever misfortune happened to German people and even if there was a big war at those years (not necessarily should happen) and even if Germany would have lost that war the defeat without Hitler would not have been so painful and humiliating.

Actually if there were not Hitler and Nazis perhaps now in this forum we talk to each other in German language instead of English. :) For example in Soviet Union before WW2 second foreign language in schools was predominantly German.

[Siegfried]

By faith he was an atheist.
He did not believe in anything what is said in the Bible or anything that happened 2000 years ago.

How did you reach that conclusion?

PS- sorry if I can't answer today since I'll be logging out soon.

[Sebastianus Rex]

How did you reach that conclusion?

PS- sorry if I can't answer today since I'll be logging out soon.

Everyone likes to give their personal opinion about A.H. around here and yet absolutely no proof to back their "opinions". :rolleyes:

[Insuperable]

Everyone likes to give their personal opinion about A.H. around here and yet absolutely no proof to back their "opinions". :rolleyes:

Hitler was a very complex person. His statements were many times contradicted by himself.
For example he knew to make an atheistic comments and suddenly after that very pro-Christian. I am not talking about taking out of context things.

He said for example.

The reason why the old world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of two great scourges: the pox and the Christianity

The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death
The only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little
We ll see to it that the Churches cant spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State....
.
.
.

[KidMulat]

By faith he was an atheist.
He did not believe in anything what is said in the Bible or anything that happened 2000 years ago.

The same thing is with Breivik who wrote in his manuscript that he is Christian only by tradition but he does not believe in anything supernatural according to the Bible and so on...

Certain sections of the Nazis got into the Occult and Esoteric aspects of spirituality; I was surprised at first. I always thought of Germans as a protestant people

[SilverKnight]

Hitler didn't won nor lose, he was just replaced by the current administration.

[Rereg]

Hitler was a Catholic only by tradition not by faith

Hitler and a lot of other german nazis hated christianity, especially Catholic Church because they thought that Christianity is jewish, semite religion which destroy "germanic mentality". Btw in III Reich existed nazi version of christianity "deutche Christen":

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/Deutsche_Christen_Flagge.svg/800px-Deutsche_Christen_Flagge.svg.png

[Siegfried]

The reason why the old world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of two great scourges: the pox and the Christianity

The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death
The only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little
We ll see to it that the Churches cant spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State....


These are quotes from Hitler's Table Talks, aren't they? According to historian Richard Carrier, many of the anti-Christian statements come from the Genoud-Trevor-Roper translation into English. He states that
"the anti-Christian quotes...only appear in Genoud's French and Trevor-Roper's English, not the German, except one that appears only in Jochman. Yet Picker and Jochmann present the untranslated German, and from independent manuscripts."

As well, Carrier says that parts of the original text are omitted from the English translation, such as
"What man has over the animals, possibly the most marvelous proof of his superiority, is that he has understood there must be a Creative Power!"

[Thunor]

How do I think the world would've been if Hitler won the war?

Germany would be mono-racial and much better off than today.

Russia wouldn't exist at all.

The US would probably be in the same shit as today.

[Peyrol]

How do I think the world would've been if Hitler won the war?

Germany would be mono-racial and much better off than today.

Russia wouldn't exist at all.

The US would probably be in the same shit as today.

I don't thik this...remember that in 1930 you had only 9,7% of afram and less than 10,000 mexicans in the whole country...now aframs are something like 13% and mex 20% (counting illegals)...USA would be better with an Axis victory.

[Thunor]

I don't thik this...remember that in 1930 you had only 9,7% of afram and less than 10,000 mexicans in the whole country...now aframs are something like 13% and mex 20% (counting illegals)...USA would be better with an Axis victory.
You're forgetting one important part - that the Axis couldn't have conquered the US in the first place.

[ricko0812]

How do I think the world would've been if Hitler won the war?

well, we would all probably be driving volkswagens:D

[Peyrol]

You're forgetting one important part - that the Axis couldn't have conquered the US in the first place.

Of course, but if you remained neutral?

[Thunor]

Of course, but if you remained neutral?
Maybe, but somehow I doubt it. Instead of a Cold War with the USSR, it would be a Cold War against the Third Reich. Roosevelt was very extreme in that regard.

[Thunor]

Strangley, the female ideal remained the same, AngloSaxon Woman with blond hair and gracile features.
The female ideal is actually being subverted as well. Only 50 years ago, you didn't have men's magazines promoting East Asians, Latinas and mixed-race models as the epitome of beauty.

[Il Principe]

BTW, the only Slavs he tolerated were the Croats, and that's because he saw them as more Germanic than Slavic.
One should look at Croatia's relationship with the Austrian Empire, to see where Hitler was coming from. His appreciation for the Croats had little to do with their (fictional) "Germanicness", but rather with the fact that Croatia was a reliable German ally in the Balkans.


Love is a very strong. I suspect his only reason for embracing Southern Europeans is that he just needed more fodder for his fight against the allies.
It depends on which Southern Europeans you are talking about. He generally liked the Italians and their Renaissance culture, as is mentioned in Hitler's Table Talk. He's recorded as saying that if he wasn't a political leader, he'd want to be a painter and live in Italy.

[Kalitas]

My country would have been better. That´s for sure!

[Sebastianus Rex]

One should look at Croatia's relationship with the Austrian Empire, to see where Hitler was coming from. His appreciation for the Croats had little to do with their (fictional) "Germanicness", but rather with the fact that Croatia was a reliable German ally in the Balkans.

Much that is said nowadays about race during the Third Reich it's very exaggerated.

Many poles were germanized (considered germans) without proving they had german blood and Hitler had not problems with it, altough there were some circles quite anti-slavic.

The Gauleiter Albert Forster choosed fo assimilate the polish population in his area, other gauleiters choosed the opposite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Forster

[edit] Germanization policiesForster gave remaining Poles two alternatives—to become Germanised or be slaves.[15]

Forster pursued a policy of forced assimilation of the population in his area of responsibility.[16] Forster was willing to accept any and all Poles who claimed to have "German blood" as Germans.[16] In practice, the method of determining whether Poles had any German ancestry or not was to send out Nazi Party workers to interview the local Poles; all Poles who stated that they had German ancestry had their answers taken at face value with no documentation required.[17] SS Reichsführer Heinrich Himmler, appointed by Hitler as "Reich Commissioner for the Strengthening of Germandom" and, as such, the man assigned to decide the "Germanization" policy in German-occupied territories, took the opposite view.[18] Refusal to become Germanised was punishable by deportation to General Government or imprisonment in concentration camp.[19]

Forster was at odds with Arthur Greiser who had complained to Himmler that Forster's assimilation policy was against Nazi racial theory. When Himmler approached Forster over this issue, Forster simply ignored him, realizing that Hitler allowed each Gauleiter to run his area as he saw fit. Both Greiser and Himmler complained to Hitler that Forster was allowing thousands of Poles to be classified as Germans, but Hitler merely bounced the problem back to them, telling them to go sort out their problems with Forster on their own. This was a difficult task. Himmler's attempts to cajole Forster to see matters his way met with resentment and contempt. In a discussion with Richard Hildebrandt, HSSPF Vistula, over Germanization in his Reichsgau, Forster scoffed, "if I looked like Himmler, I wouldn't talk about race".




It depends on which Southern Europeans you are talking about. He generally liked the Italians and their Renaissance culture, as is mentioned in Hitler's Table Talk. He's recorded as saying that if he wasn't a political leader, he'd want to be a painter and live in Italy.

Wich southern europeans did he dislike ? To my knowledge none.

It's funny to see so many people quoting a book that is a fake. :rolleyes:

[Il Principe]

Many poles were germanized (considered germans) without proving they had german blood and Hitler had not problems with it, altough there were some circles quite anti-slavic.
Indeed, Hitler did have a hands-off policy when it came to the gauleiters and who they chose to "Germanize" in the conquered areas. Greiser chose to drive out his Poles and re-settle the land with German farmers, while Forster simply handed out German passports to all his Poles and declared them officially German. On the other hand, Hitler had a much clearer idea about the USSR areas, and what to do with them.


Wich southern europeans did he dislike ? To my knowledge none.
Maybe dislike is too strong a word, since Hitler's active hatred was mainly concentrated on Slavs and especially Jews. However, he certainly didn't have a high opinion of the mongrelized racial types that are sadly represented in Southern Europe, and would probably exclude them from the German gene pool. (Don't get me wrong, though, I'm not saying all Southern Europeans are racial mongrels.)


It's funny to see so many people quoting a book that is a fake. :rolleyes:
Meh. If it's verified by David Irving, it's good enough for me. On the other hand, it's possible that the court eunuch, Bormann, tampered with his boss Adolf's quotes, but who knows...

[Il Principe]

Himmler's attempts to cajole Forster to see matters his way met with resentment and contempt. In a discussion with Richard Hildebrandt, HSSPF Vistula, over Germanization in his Reichsgau, Forster scoffed, "if I looked like Himmler, I wouldn't talk about race".
I'd agree with him there. :D Himmler definitely wasn't aesthetically pleasing, and a worse choice for SS commander can hardly be imagined.

[Thunor]

Much that is said nowadays about race during the Third Reich it's very exaggerated.
True, the "Hitler wanted to kill all people without blonde hair and blue eyes" meme is probably the most famous exaggeration.


Wich southern europeans did he dislike ? To my knowledge none.
He viewed Southern Europe as the mongrelized remains of dead ancient civilizations, if I remember right. Still, I don't think he felt person "dislike" towards them at all.

[Rereg]

Much that is said nowadays about race during the Third Reich it's very exaggerated.

Many poles were germanized (considered germans) without proving they had german blood and Hitler had not problems with it, altough there were some circles quite anti-slavic.

Well Poles who came from III Reich (Silesia, South-East Prussia) were consider as Germans or half-germans and a lot of them fought as Werhmacht-soldiers. In
General Government and occupied Greater Poland exist volks-lists and a lot of Poles were members of "Volks-Dutschen Society" also a lot of Poles were colleagues of Gestapo.


Personally I think that before 1939 year Hitler was friendly toward Poles and Poland because they wanted see polish cannon fodder in great anti-soviet polish-german-japanese crusade against Stalin. Poland didn't want return Upper Silesia/Pomerania to Germany and fight together Germans and Japanese against Stalin so later Hitler was very angry against Poles.

[Mortimer]

I wouldnt exist probably

edit: so its naturall i think its bad

[Mortimer]

He viewed Southern Europe as the mongrelized remains of dead ancient civilizations, if I remember right. Still, I don't think he felt person "dislike" towards them at all.

probably thats what you think too?:D

[Melina]

We would have been with more advanced technology.There wouldn't be so much violence and there would have been less crime.Our society would have been more prosperous.What a shame Hitler didn't win WW2.

[Mortimer]

We would have been with more advanced technology.There wouldn't be so much violence and there would have been less crime.Our society would have been more prosperous.What a shame Hitler didn't win WW2.

How do you know that?

and about less crime and less violence, probably there would be less crime and violence from private persons but there would be more violence and cruel criminal behaviour from a police state

[Melina]

How do you know that?

and about less crime and less violence, probably there would be less crime and violence from private persons but there would be more violence and cruel criminal behaviour from a police state

That is fact! We would have been better of.Look at our society today.It is a disaster.We are dumbing down in a fast rate.During World War 2 men who fought the war had a great pride in themselves.Today men act like pussys.Women act like whores because of liberal propaganda.If the Jews would have dissapeared we would have been a much better society.

[Rereg]

What a shame Hitler didn't win WW2.

http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/images/1310480585093.jpg


Hitler couldn't win the world war and all clever Nazis knew about it ( for example Canaris) btw It's funny to see american fans of Hitler because he despised Yanks and USA.

[sturmwalkure]

The world would have been a far better place I imagine.

ZQObUgJA83k

[Melina]

http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/images/1310480585093.jpg


Hitler couldn't win the world war and all clever Nazis knew about it ( for example Canaris) btw It's funny to see american fans of Hitler because he despised Yanks and USA.

If he would have won WW2 I probably would have been born in Spain.

[Il Principe]

It's funny to see american fans of Hitler because he despised Yanks and USA.
He actually admired the US, or at least its history. Adolf had only praise for the Anglo-Saxon settlers who had wiped out the native Amerindians and populated an entire continent.

[Mortimer]

That is fact! We would have been better of.Look at our society today.It is a disaster.We are dumbing down in a fast rate.During World War 2 men who fought the war had a great pride in themselves.Today men act like pussys.Women act like whores because of liberal propaganda.If the Jews would have dissapeared we would have been a much better society.

Believe what you want, i enjoy my liberties. liberal just means free, yet if something is forced its not free anymore, so if you get bullied for another opinion like for a conservative one its not truly liberalism

[Rereg]

He actually admired the US, or at least its history. Adolf had only praise for the Anglo-Saxon settlers who had wiped out the native Amerindians and populated an entire continent.

Well Hitler thought that twentieth-century Americans are little-value people because they are heavy mixed among total different nations and degenerated by "wild capitalism".

[Melina]

Believe what you want, i enjoy my liberties. liberal just means free, yet if something is forced its not free anymore, so if you get bullied for another opinion like for a conservative one its not truly liberalism

So you mean anybody who wants the freedom to kill somebody this days can?Anybody who want to rape someone can?Liberalism is a farse.There has to be rules and obligations.

[Mortimer]

So you mean anybody who wants the freedom to kill somebody this days can?Anybody who want to rape someone can?Liberalism is a farse.There has to be rules and obligations.

yet the rules are "if it doesnt harm another person you are free to do it" not "regulate freedom until it doesnt exist anymore"

[Melina]

yet the rules are "if it doesnt harm another person you are free to do it" not "regulate freedom until it doesnt exist anymore"

"if it doesnt harm another person you are free to do it"...Yeah right people will do anything for their best interest.It is human nature.If you give inferiors to much liberty bad things happen.Yes we have to regulate because the world we live in today can't get any worse.All we need is people using the streets as public bathrooms and we are done for..

[Mortimer]

"if it doesnt harm another person you are free to do it"...Yeah right people will do anything for their best interest.It is human nature.If you give inferiors to much liberty bad things happen.Yes we have to regulate because the world we live in today can't get any worse.All we need is people using the streets as public bathrooms and we are done for..

who are the inferiors? i dont see how the world is now worse then before, especially in the west the world is at peak of consumption and increased wealth distribution for lower classes and acess to modern technology for the masses


you probably like Hitler because of his conservative stances towards society and race, yet you are free to live a conservative life if you want, find a conservative white husband, make many white children etc. nobody is forcing you to live "liberal". but i think you want to live in a world where you not only live like you want but dictate others how they should live, right?

[Melina]

who are the inferiors? i dont see how the world is now worse then before, especially in the west the world is at peak of consumption and increased wealth distribution for lower classes and acess to modern technology for the masses


you probably like Hitler because of his conservative stances towards society and race, yet you are free to live a conservative life if you want, find a conservative white husband, make many white children etc. nobody is forcing you to live "liberal". but i think you want to live in a world where you not only live like you want but dictate others how they should live, right?

The west has money without value being destributed.YES WE ARE FORCED TO LIVE LIBERAL!Just go to my community college.Watch an american movie today and it is packed with sex and violence.Life back then was a lot better.People where more respectful and where more educated.

"Increased wealth distribution"is the problem.I have to pay for people who sit all day at home and do nothing.You liberals are dictating everyone to live your lifestyles that is a fact.

[Svipdag]

General Charles DeGaulle described the prospect as ".....a 'orrible servitude."
The now nearly extinct generation which lived under German occupation in Europe would be those to ask about Hitler's "brave new world".

Ask a Norwegian (as "Aryan" as the Germans or more so) in his/her 90's what he or she thought of the Germans, and still does. I know from talking with the
older members of Sons of Norway that the Germans were and still are detested by those who survived the German occupation.

Yet, the Norwegians, being "Aryans" were not an "inferior race" and were probably treated better than, e.g., the Slavs. The German occupation forces in World War II are remembered as arrogant, cruel, jack-booted thugs. Unless the leopard can change his spots, they would have behaved no better after the war.

The recollections of those who experienced German occuoation are not
ostensibly Zionist-motivated propaganda; they are the raw material of history. Yes, Hitler will be remembered but not kindly.


"DE MORTVIS NIL NISI BONVM" [?] - DIOGENES LAERTIVS

[Mortimer]

The west has money without value being destributed.YES WE ARE FORCED TO LIVE LIBERAL!Just go to my community college.Watch an american movie today and it is packed with sex and violence.Life back then was a lot better.People where more respectful and where more educated.

how they were more educated, over the decades the analphabetes rates decreased not increased, lol.



"Increased wealth distribution"is the problem.I have to pay for people who sit all day at home and do nothing.You liberals are dictating everyone to live your lifestyles that is a fact.

you would probably work 18 hours a day including weekends (except maybe sundays) and you wouldnt earn enough to completely eradicate your hunger if it were not for humanistic, social and liberal ideas.

i dont know how hitler would have handled it though, but it was once much worse conditions for the lower classes

[Melina]

how they were more educated, over the decades the analphabetes rates decreased not increased, lol.



you would probably work 18 hours a day including weekends (except maybe sundays) and you wouldnt earn enough to completely eradicate your hunger if it were not for humanistic, social and liberal ideas.

i dont know how hitler would have handled it though, but it was once much worse conditions for the lower classes

Most of my taxes go to people who don't do anything.Have you heard of "food stamps",unemployment benefits etc that come from my taxes!

"but it was once much worse conditions for the lower classes" PROBABLY THAT IS WHAT LOWER CLASSES NEED IN ORDER TO GET THEIR BUTTS OF THE COUCH AND WORK!

[Mortimer]

Most of my taxes go to people who don't do anything.Have you heard of "food stamps",unemployment benefits etc that come from my taxes!

"but it was once much worse conditions for the lower classes" PROBABLY THAT IS WHAT LOWER CLASSES NEED IN ORDER TO GET THEIR BUTTS OF THE COUCH AND WORK!

so you want to cut down on social institutions which provide for the poor and helpless, maybe you will be once unemployed and need it. and i think most of the taxes go to public services like building streets, projects and also into military complex and police and for war especially if you are from the USA

[Melina]

so you want to cut down on social institutions which provide for the poor and helpless, maybe you will be once unemployed and need it. and i think most of the taxes go to public services like building streets, projects and also into military complex and police and for war especially if you are from the USA

I once was unemployed last year because I came from D.R.I was unemployed for a few weeks and then found 2 jobs and started going back to college.Some people do need benefits but then there are people who do absolutley NOTHing for the rest of their lives.No most of my taxes go to the unemployed that is a fact.Our streets here are digusting so I doubt my taxes are making them better..

[Mortimer]

I once was unemployed last year because I came from D.R.I was unemployed for a few weeks and then found 2 jobs and started going back to college.Some people do need benefits but then there are people who do absolutley NOTHing for the rest of their lives.No most of my taxes go to the unemployed that is a fact.Our streets here are digusting so I doubt my taxes are making them better..

lol.

[Hess]

so you want to cut down on social institutions which provide for the poor and helpless

No, we want to eliminate bloated, inefficient government bureaucracies that waste taxpayer money without helping the poor.

[Melina]

lol.

Yeah life would have been a lot better if Hitler won...I wouldn't have to answer to Libertards..

[Mortimer]

Yeah life would have been a lot better if Hitler won...I wouldn't have to answer to Libertards..

Im not really a "liberal" like you guys in the US understands it, yet im liberal in the sense that i support freedom similar written down in the US and other Constitutions, im also socialist and nationalist (but not in the negative sense, i even avoid to call myself nationalist because of the negative connotation)

[Sebastianus Rex]

Indeed, Hitler did have a hands-off policy when it came to the gauleiters and who they chose to "Germanize" in the conquered areas. Greiser chose to drive out his Poles and re-settle the land with German farmers, while Forster simply handed out German passports to all his Poles and declared them officially German. On the other hand, Hitler had a much clearer idea about the USSR areas, and what to do with them.

Debatable, slavic enslavement as mentioned in General Plan Ost is just Soviet Propaganda. There was an anti-slavic sentiment among many germans at that time but to mention plans of enslavement is totaly out of line, just historical distortion.

Apart from soviet and allied propaganda the facts are:

-between 600.000 and 1.5 million russians served under the swastika.

-Of 12.000 dutch volunteers that flooded the recruiting offices, the SS only accepted 3.000 (25%) into the original Dutch legion.

-Ukranian recruitment: 29.000 were accepted out of 82.000 applicants (35%).




Maybe dislike is too strong a word, since Hitler's active hatred was mainly concentrated on Slavs and especially Jews. However, he certainly didn't have a high opinion of the mongrelized racial types that are sadly represented in Southern Europe, and would probably exclude them from the German gene pool. (Don't get me wrong, though, I'm not saying all Southern Europeans are racial mongrels.)

I'm not going to open a debate of what Hitler thought (altough i could), i will just point that the concept of racial purity/mongrelization by that time is completely outdated and was a product of the ignorance about a science that was on it's infancy.

Genetic studies have consistently proven that the only pure europeans are the basques and perhaps some baltic countries (if they count the haplogroup N as european and not indo-european) in all others there's a small to moderate percentage of non-european DNA that is very ancient (paleolithic and neolithic and in some cases a little more recent but still quite ancient).

Just look at the results of the admixture tests from Dodecad and Eurogenes.

These are the results from the European Admixture (presence of authocthone european DNA in several countries):

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg607/scaled.php?server=607&filename=euroadmix.png&res=medium

South Italy and Greece show lower percentages than the european average because there is substantial presence of eastern mediterranean DNA wich is caucasian of course.

The point is: there are several subtypes of european races, having darker features (eyes, skin, hair) doesn't mean mongrelization as it was tought by some nordicists theorists in the 1920's and it is still spread around by some circles.

As you know the basques (like other southern europeans) have predominatly dark hair and brown/hazel eyes and yet they are racially purer than scandinavians who have predominatly light hair, blue eyes and fairer skin and yet show a small degree of asian (uralic-mongoloid), and other non-european DNA.



Meh. If it's verified by David Irving, it's good enough for me. On the other hand, it's possible that the court eunuch, Bormann, tampered with his boss Adolf's quotes, but who knows...

With all due respect but D.Irving is not credible in that matter, he was involved in the negotiation of the fake "Hitler's Diaries" to Stern Magazine in the early 80's by around 3 million US$, he said by that time that the diaries were legitimate when it was proven an obvious fake, wich he recognized later.

About the "Hitler Table Talk" it was proved already that the last part of the book is a complete fake (even D.Irving says that) and other parts were heavily adulterated, so it is not reliable, most likely the book reflects Bormann's views, not Hitler's.

Another fake that D.Irving considers legitimate is the Zweites Buch (Hitler's Second Book), wich was supposedly found in a box of an american military wharehouse in the late 50's. The finder of that alleged book (never analyzed by experts or scientists) was the communist jew Gerhard Weinberg. :rolleyes:

[Il Principe]

Debatable, slavic enslavement as mentioned in General Plan Ost is just Soviet Propaganda. There was an anti-slavic sentiment among many germans at that time but to mention plans of enslavement is totaly out of line,
The specific details of what Hitler's plans entailed can be seen in the earliest pages of this very thread.

You're not the first person who has said this, though. Many modern fans of Hitler find it hard to swallow the more unpleasant realities about their idol. Me, I have no problem with admiring Hitler's good ideas while also admitting that other aspects of his mind were less-than-pleasant to the modern person.


between 600.000 and 1.5 million russians served under the swastika.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannon_fodder


I'm not going to open a debate of what Hitler thought (altough i could), i will just point that the concept of racial purity/mongrelization by that time is completely outdated and was a product of the ignorance about a science that was on it's infancy.
Don't dodge the argument. My point wasn't about the actual genetic purity of Southern Europe (which has been tainted in some places, due to being the natural borderland between Europe and the outside), but rather how Hitler perceived them. Although he certainly held them in much higher esteem than Slavs and Jews, his opinions on them seemed to vary.


South Italy and Greece show lower percentages than the european average because there is substantial presence of eastern mediterranean DNA wich is caucasian of course.
"Caucasian" doesn't matter one bit to me. It's a supra-racial category that encompasses anything that is not black or yellow. There are many Caucasoid racial types, such as Arabid and Armenoid, that are racially alien and completely repulsive in my eyes.


As you know the basques (like other southern europeans) have predominatly dark hair and brown/hazel eyes and yet they are racially purer than scandinavians who have predominatly light hair, blue eyes and fairer skin and yet show a small degree of asian (uralic-mongoloid), and other non-european DNA.
I wasn't saying that dark hair and hazel eyes are a sign of mongrelization, and you know it. I was obviously talking about non-European facial features, which can be seen in mixed races (however, I find unmixed South Europeans to be among the world's most attractive people). Anyways, that is best left for another debate, since this thread, after all, is about Hitler and WW2.


About the "Hitler Table Talk" it was proved already that the last part of the book is a complete fake (even D.Irving says that) and other parts were heavily adulterated, so it is not reliable, most likely the book reflects Bormann's views, not Hitler's.
Interesting. I'll have to look this up, I didn't know.

[Rereg]

There was an anti-slavic sentiment among many germans at that time but to mention plans of enslavement is totaly out of line, just historical distortion.


This is not true, Germans always hated and despised Poles, Sorbs and Czechs. In german imperial politics existed definition "drang nach Osten" it mean "penetrated to the east". German and Poles were enemies for milenium and even today polish and german conservatists/nationalists/national socialists hate each other. In our history germans were always, destroyers, enemies, rapists or bloody killers and for Germans calling someone a "Pole" meant insult. It's very sad true but bloody history and hate divided us for ever.

[Albion]

I imagine a victory for Germany in WWII would have meant a much weaker Britain so they would no longer be occupying the north east of Ireland, other than that I don't think Ireland would have been affected too much. Apart from some nice pro-Irish propaganda films I don't think Hitler had too much of an interest in Ireland. Throughout WWII we remained on good diplomatic terms with the Third Reich and De Valera refused to join the Allies despite enormous pressure from the UK so perhaps he would have rewarded us some land in England, that would have been nice.

Yeah, keep dreaming. :D

[Il Principe]

This is not true, Germans always hated and despised Poles, Sorbs and Czechs.
Sorbs are basically German nowadays (wasn't the philosopher Leibniz a Sorb?), so I can't see how there's much "hatred" towards them. Germany's history with Poles is another matter entirely.

[Sultan Suleiman]

NS would eventually end up on the historic graveyard the same way how communism did and mega-corporation ruled capitalism will soon. After the collapse of the central ideology we would have the same crap we had after the collapse of communism in former USSR (petty civil wars, corruption, breakdown of the society. etc).

Why would anyone sane would want that Hitler won?
Most of my Slavic brethren would be slaughtered or kept in some God-forsaken reservations.

P.S.: What would happen in NDH (of which Bosnia was a part of) is that it would be settled with Italians and eventually split along the Germano-Italian line in the 60s and I would have third of my nation (and Croats would eventually lose Dalmatia to them) filled with frog eaters with which we have ethnic based wars during the collapse of the NS system of government.

[Sultan Suleiman]

I once was unemployed last year because I came from D.R.I was unemployed for a few weeks and then found 2 jobs and started going back to college.Some people do need benefits but then there are people who do absolutley NOTHing for the rest of their lives.No most of my taxes go to the unemployed that is a fact.Our streets here are digusting so I doubt my taxes are making them better..

Honey where do you think your government gets 500 billion dollars for it's military spending?

[Rereg]

Sorbs are basically German nowadays (wasn't the philosopher Leibniz a Sorb?), so I can't see how there's much "hatred" towards them. Germany's history with Poles is another matter entirely.

Sorbs before XX and XIX century were large minority in modern (East) Saxonia usually they were peasant-class/farmers, when Kingdom of Prussia had introduced compulsory, state education for Sorbs most of them forgotten own slavic identity and become Germans/Prussians.

[cossackpride]

NS would eventually end up on the historic graveyard the same way how communism did and mega-corporation ruled capitalism will soon. After the collapse of the central ideology we would have the same crap we had after the collapse of communism in former USSR (petty civil wars, corruption, breakdown of the society. etc).

Why would anyone sane would want that Hitler won?
Most of my Slavic brethren would be slaughtered or kept in some God-forsaken reservations.

P.S.: What would happen in NDH (of which Bosnia was a part of) is that it would be settled with Italians and eventually split along the Germano-Italian line in the 60s and I would have third of my nation (and Croats would eventually lose Dalmatia to them) filled with frog eaters with which we have ethnic based wars during the collapse of the NS system of government.

This. Germany with a Pyrrhic victory would have had tremendous issues.

Hermann Goering was incredibly corrupt and would had consumed the state in time. The National Socialists were hardly a meritocratic people. There were a lot of people like Goering.

For the veterans, eventually the men would have to be demobilize and would face labour and market competition from guest workers and satellite states. How can German industry compete with cheaper foreign goods from France and the Netherlands?

Generous welfare programs, government jobs and subsidies aside - the system appears unsustainable. Maybe that's where the German plan of Lebensraum was supposed to come in - send the young unemployed German men to the East.

One problem was that they tried this during the war and couldn't convince poor farmers in Germany to relocate to developed areas of Poland, let alone the backwaters of Eastern Europe.


I'm a bit fatigued with all this blame on Communism for ruining everything.. it's very Stormfront.. Contemporary multiculturalism in the West started in a lot of countries in the 1970s (immigration reform hit all the Western Countries within a few years of each other.. coincidence?) , when the Soviet Union was still around. There were Turks and Afro-Americans in West Berlin in the 80s; while East Berlin was homogenously German.

The Soviets and Warsaw Pact countries never tolerated internal migration or migration because of the inequalities and strain on infastructure / services which resulted.

[CelticViking]

How do you think the world and your country specific would've been if Hitler had won WW2?





If Hitler Won World War II We'd Have A Better, More Just World Today
.
Legendary U.S. General George S. Patton realized late in the war that the United States fought the wrong country. Patton felt the U.S. should have sided with Germany to destroy Jewish Bolshevik/Communist USSR. This information comes from Patton's diary entries, letters he wrote to his wife, and comments he made to military officers and staff.

If Hitler had won World War II (and he would have had the U.S. and Britain allied with Germany against the USSR) we'd have a more just, fair, and moral Western World today. The rest of the world would have similarly benefited had the Germans been victorious.

Had Hitler won World War II, what would be different in the post war world? Here are a few examples:

1 - No USSR (the Soviet government murdered millions of its own people during its 70 year reign - to study this topic read the writings of Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn; Hitler would have liberated the USSR, though taking large parts of its Western region for lebensraum, "living space")

2 - No cold war (because there would be no USSR)

3 - No Communist Eastern Europe/Iron Curtain (when WWII ended, Eastern Europe fell to Communism - this was part of Stalin's spoils of war)

4 - No Red China and Mao's subsequent killing of 40 - 60 million Chinese (the USSR created favorable conditions for Mao's Communists which ultimately led to Mao's victory over Chiang Kai-shek's Nationalists in 1949, thus if no USSR, no Mao victory)

5 - No Communist North Vietnam (both the Soviet Union and Red China aided Ho Chi Minh)

6 - No Communist Cambodia and Pol Pot's slaughter of 2 million Cambodians (Red China aided Pol Pot)

7 - No dividing Korea into North Korea & South Korea (the allies split Korea after WWII ended, with North Korea becoming Communist... another of Stalin's spoils of war)

8 - No Communist Cuba (given the previous, what support would Castro have had in the 1950's?)

9 - No Communism anywhere (Hitler was the world's most fervent anti-Communist)

10 - Liberalism & multiculturalism wouldn't dominate Western ethos (both are Jewish creations and both have always been heavily promoted/advanced by Jews; thus if no Jewish influence, then no liberalism and no multiculturalism... at least certainly nowhere near the degree we see today)

11 - No Cultural Marxism and no political correctness (these are social engineering "tools" which came out of the Jewish think tank known as the Frankfurt School)

12 - No third world immigration into Western nations (Jews wouldn't be in power positions to craft and force through liberal immigration laws; Jews are responsible for each Western nation's liberal immigration policy, as most were orchestrated by the World Jewish Congress)

13 - No depraved filth on TV, in movies, etc. (because Jews wouldn't run Hollywood)

14 - No widespread pornography (Jewish lawyers and Jewish activists were the main challengers of anti-obscenity laws, under the guise of "Freedom of Speech")

15 - There would still be prayer in public schools (Jewish lawyers were instrumental in banning prayer in public schools under the guise of so-called "separation of church and state," something that appears nowhere in the U.S. Constitution)

16 - No man-hating radical feminist movement (Jews such as Betty Friedan, Sonia Pressman, and Gloria Steinem, among others, were the key drivers of radical feminism)

17 - No Israel and all the problems it has brought the USA and the immeasurable misery it has wrought on the Palestinians

18 - Jews would be living in Madagascar (perhaps) and would be carefully monitored (Madagascar was one place Hitler considered as a Jewish homeland)

Many reading this will ask, "But what about the Holocaust?" The Holocaust has been grossly exaggerated by organized Jewry in order to create sympathy for Jews worldwide and thus help advance the Jewish agenda (i.e., people seen as victims tend to get their way). It is also used as a political weapon to justify Israeli militarism against the Palestinians. Hitler's Final Solution (rebranded in the early 1970's as the "Holocaust") was a plan to remove Jews from Europe, not to kill them. During WWII, just as the U.S. couldn't trust Japanese Americans, thus causing FDR to round many of them up and place them in concentration camps, Hitler couldn't trust Jews since many were partisans sympathetic to the USSR and hence they aided the USSR in various subversive, anti-German activities. Therefore the Nazis rounded up Jews and placed them in concentration camps. Somewhere around one million Jews died during WWII (not six million) mostly due to disease and starvation in the final months of the war. Allied bombing of German occupied Europe destroyed many roads, rail lines, and bridges making it impossible for Germany to adequately supply the camps with food and medicine. The result is that many Jews died of starvation and disease; and of course many non-Jews also died of starvation and disease (again, due to a massive Allied bombing campaign and its destruction of German transportation infrastructure). Lastly, there were no "gas chambers." Much has been written about this. To study this subject, read the research papers published by Germar Rudolf & Carlo Mattogno (there are many others as well).

It should also be noted that Hitler never wanted to "conquer the world." He simply wanted to safeguard Europe from nefarious Jewish influence and safeguard the world from usurious Jewish banking.

Sadly, FDR and Churchill were puppets of International Jewry; each sold his soul for power and prestige. World War II was a war between two competing ideologies: Nationalism -vs- Jewish Bolshevik Internationalism/globalism -- and unfortunately International Jewry won.

Was World War II "the good war?" No, it was exactly the opposite. The Allied victory marked the beginning of the end of Western Civilization.




http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/2011/10/if-hitler-won-world-war-ii-we-would.html

[Thunor]

edit: so its naturall i think its bad
No doubt you would.

[CelticViking]

Japan would doubtless rule over Asia, the Pacific Islands, and most likely Australia and New Zealand. .

Lol, No. Hitler didn't hate Celtic or Germanic people. He didn't hate Neville Chamberlain or Oswald Mosly or the Mitford sisters. We would still be Celtic and Germanic just like Great Britain.

.Harold Holt wouldn't have been PM. Australia would still have the White Australia policy. Australia wouldn't have to worry about North Korean missiles or African gangs. Abo would be still walking around looking for lizards, dingo and cats and they wouldn't be joining gangs.

.Hitler would have helped Mohandas Gandhi and India with Independence and there would be no Indians in UK, Australia or New Zealand.

Norman Kirk wouldn't have been PM. No Asians, No other Polynesians and No Africans in New Zealand. Maori would be the only non Europeans but they have a low population and they wouldn't eat lots of junk food or join gangs. No Malaysian or Tongan or Somaon gangs( Maybe only a Maori gang but the police would be able to deal with them easier), not a lot of drugs or crime. No Waitangi Day. No Swedish tourists getting killed. No rap music turning Maori into gangsters. No poverty in South Auckland. No Hollywood pissing us off every time we want to make a movie and lots of other stuff. Europeans would be happier and Maori would be happier. NZ would be more peaceful and we wouldn't be sending men or women to war in Korea or the Middle East. We would have less jails and more money. The South Island would be the most peaceful place ever because there were never a lot of Maori there.
The Maori mainly lived in the North Island. All other non Europeans would leave and there would be hardly any gangs in the South Island.

.South Africa would still have White people as leaders too.
No anger in the 1981 Springbok tour.

.Large Baby boom with Europeans increasing all the time.

Australia and NZ wouldn't have many Eastern or South Europeans and there would be a low population of Non Europeans.

. No Korean war.

. No Vietnam war.

No Middle East war.

[Aces High]

How do you think the world and your country specific would've been if Hitler had won WW2?

In an ideal scenario the British empire led by Britain should have allied itself to Hitler and Germany.

[Drawing-slim]

I think specifically albania would have been the most better off country in the balkans and even europe.
Under hitler albania benefited to have all albanian lands liberated and united so if we had lived under a great albania since 40's without the serb and greek opression and ill wishes upon us, we could have avioded comunism and total isolation as well as kosovars without the serbian agression, and all this time workung with german inbestment etc today we could easily be the most better off countries in europe, let alone balkans.

Hitler respected dignefied old races around europe. And we proved him right becuase when germany offered money for war damages
albania told germans keep it, fuck off. Even when albania was short even on food

Even einstein, no other european nation would give him a passport to escape to america, but albania alone helped him out.

These are things hitler respected, so call him crazy..:p

Edit this part: we also saved 80 thousand italian solders from the germans

[Il Principe]

I would have third of my nation (and Croats would eventually lose Dalmatia to them) filled with frog eaters with which we have ethnic based wars during the collapse of the NS system of government.
Seeing as those Italian frog-eaters have achieved a high culture far superior to that of Balkan Muslims, I do not see how that is a bad thing. However, you're right that Southeastern Europe would have a far different demographic landscape if the Axis came to dominate it.

I'm generally ambivalent about the Generalplan Ost. To be sure, it was very extreme (not to mention grossly unrealistic, as Germany did not have enough settlers) in many regards, but a limited German expansion eastwards into Poland and the Baltics would've been a cultural improvement.

[Rereg]

I think specifically albania would have been the most better off country in the balkans and even europe.
Under hitler albania benefited to have all albanian lands liberated and united so if we had lived under a great albania since 40's without the serb and greek opression and ill wishes upon us, we could have avioded comunism and total isolation as well as kosovars without the serbian agression, and all this time workung with german inbestment etc today we could easily be the most better off countries in europe, let alone balkans.

Hitler respected dignefied old races around europe. And we proved him right becuase when germany offered money for war damages
albania told germans keep it, fuck off. Even when albania was short even on food

Even einstein, no other european nation would give him a passport to escape to america, but albania alone helped him out.

These are things hitler respected, so call him crazy..:p

Edit this part: we also saved 80 thousand italian solders from the germans

http://www.crossed-flag-pins.com/Friendship-Pins/Albania/Flag-Pins-Albania-Germany.jpg

Thank you for your useful post. I think now everyone can see what kind of allies have Germany in Balkan peninsula. :thumb001:

[Hess]

http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/2011/10/if-hitler-won-world-war-ii-we-would.html

One more point to add to that list

-the extermination and/or enslavement of most Slavs.

[cossackpride]

The list is too extensive and long to go through and correct.. possibly intentional.


Like saying there wouldn't be a Cold War (geopolitical tension) is bullsh*t because there always has been various Cold Wars (in the past it was British vs. French Empire and Britain vs. Germany pre WW1).

Also - Stalin actually favoured Chiang Kai-Shek, not Mao. The Communist Chinese were largely equipped with weapons seized from the Japanese and Nationalist defectors.

Pol Pot was a nut. Communists are typiclally modernizers, whereas Pol Pot wanted to kill everyone with modern ideas. :rolleyes:

[cossackpride]

Seeing as those Italian frog-eaters have achieved a high culture far superior to that of Balkan Muslims, I do not see how that is a bad thing. However, you're right that Southeastern Europe would have a far different demographic landscape if the Axis came to dominate it.

I'm generally ambivalent about the Generalplan Ost. To be sure, it was very extreme (not to mention grossly unrealistic, as Germany did not have enough settlers) in many regards, but a limited German expansion eastwards into Poland and the Baltics would've been a cultural improvement.

NO it wouldn't. A vibrant and strong Polish, Lithuanian, Latvian and Estonian culture would had been replaced with an American-Lite 'Gross Deustche' German culture consisting of Bavarian Beer Dances. :rolleyes2:

[Peyrol]

NS would eventually end up on the historic graveyard the same way how communism did and mega-corporation ruled capitalism will soon. After the collapse of the central ideology we would have the same crap we had after the collapse of communism in former USSR (petty civil wars, corruption, breakdown of the society. etc).

Why would anyone sane would want that Hitler won?
Most of my Slavic brethren would be slaughtered or kept in some God-forsaken reservations.

P.S.: What would happen in NDH (of which Bosnia was a part of) is that it would be settled with Italians and eventually split along the Germano-Italian line in the 60s and I would have third of my nation (and Croats would eventually lose Dalmatia to them) filled with frog eaters with which we have ethnic based wars during the collapse of the NS system of government.

1) We founded the bases for the modern world and modern society and science (Renaissance), contrary to your insignificant country.

2) frog-eaters are the french, not us. We don't eat something which jump on the swamps.

Have a good day, muslim.

[Il Principe]

NO it wouldn't. A vibrant and strong Polish, Lithuanian, Latvian and Estonian culture would had been replaced with an American-Lite 'Gross Deustche' German culture consisting of Bavarian Beer Dances. :rolleyes2:
The cheap Bavarian-lite "culture" that exists in the USA is just commercialized crass nostalgia, and can hardly be compared to the German high culture. That tends to happen when settlers from one country are forced to adopt the mainstream culture of another. (It's probably the same with the Ukrainian-Canadian beery "culture" that you're no doubt familiar with).

If one looks objectively at the vast accomplishments of Germany, and then at Poland and the Baltics, one can only conclude that the former represents a much greater step forward in human civilization. Philosophy, literature, music, arts, in almost every area. And that's not an insult towards Poles or Balts, but merely an acknowledgement of German excellence.


1) We founded the bases for the modern world and modern society and science (Renaissance), contrary to your insignificant country.
Indeed, it's beyond absurd when a Muslim Balkanoid, who can hardly be said belong in European civilization, tries to slander the Italians and their culture. I suppose the "frog-eater" slur made a sort of sense, as both France and Italy represent a rich food culture and a high level of decadent Latin sophistication far beyond that of Europe's Rwanda.

[Thunor]

Pol Pot was a nut. Communists are typiclally modernizers, whereas Pol Pot wanted to kill everyone with modern ideas.
Pol Pot was a racist as well, definitely not a "pinko" in the normal sense. I've heard that he hated Chinese people (despite getting funded by Mao), forced Muslims to choke on pork, and that he killed all the Vietnamese people he got his hands on.

[Thunor]

-between 600.000 and 1.5 million russians served under the swastika.
Obvious cannon fodder is obvious.

I don't think Hitler was as evil as modern lefties have painted him as, but thinking he was a philanthropical friend of Russians is obviously retarded.

[Ausência Forçada]

I believe it would be better... just look at Portugal back then (30's, 40's):

xIThtWQe4os

what say about now Lisbon streets:
http://i.imgur.com/APWLv.jpg

[Thunor]

I believe it would be better... just look at Portugal back then (30's, 40's)
I'm just curious about this: were Portuguese people classified as Aryans in the Third Reich? :P

[Midori]

I'm just curious about this: were Portuguese people classified as Aryans in the Third Reich? :P

They were probably considered untermenschen like us Slavs..

[Chronos]

They were probably considered untermenschen like us Slavs..

Please post sources to this claim.

Small semi-related side note: my great-grandmother said the Nazi soldiers (Whermacht?) that went through/briefly occupied my village (NW Romania) were much nicer and polite than the "vulgar Russian soldiers". Just some thoughts.

[Ausência Forçada]

I'm just curious about this: were Portuguese people classified as Aryans in the Third Reich? :P

Racial NS policy:

"Germans from Germany (Reichdeutsche) - Nordic Germans are said most favorable, but all German citizens are in the top category.
Germans from outside, active ethnic Germans, honorary "Aryans" from axis European countries in Volksliste category 1 and 2 (see Volksdeutsche).
Germans from outside, passive Germans and members of families, handicapped, political dissidents, common criminals in Volksliste category 3 and 4.
Other Germanic peoples closely related to Germans (Norwegians, Danes, Swedes, Finland-Swedes [11], Estonian Swedes, Faroese, Flemish, Icelanders, English and the Dutch) but treated as categories 1 and 2 in most privileges, especially pro-Nazi sympathizers. Until 1942, the Greeks were included in this category by virtue of their being descendants of the ancient Greeks.
Italians (particularly from regions north of Rome, e.g. Tuscany, Lombardy, etc.), Spaniards (particularly Basques) and Portuguese were treated as category 1 and 2, especially pro-Nazi sympathizers (e.g. Fascist Italy, Francoist Spain, and Salazarist Portugal diplomats)."

http://www.reference.com/browse/%E2%80%9Ccamptown+races%E2%80%9D

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=97543&start=195

[Chronos]

As to the whole ordeal and our present state: we must look beyond re-creating past forms (Nazism, etc.); people are simply too soaked up with ethnomasochistic propaganda to look beyond the surface of past forms. On the other hand, there exist certain Principles, principles which have manifested themselves in these particular past forms and which must be bolted down and held as a beacon to orient oneself to for our future.

Realistically speaking, the major problem for most of us on this forum is engaging in the day to day world, in the age of dissolution, while remaining inwardly determined and governed by a completely different spirit.

[Rereg]

If one looks objectively at the vast accomplishments of Germany, and then at Poland and the Baltics, one can only conclude that the former represents a much greater step forward in human civilization. Philosophy, literature, music, arts, in almost every area. And that's not an insult towards Poles or Balts, but merely an acknowledgement of German excellence.

...And it's the reason why Germans should steal our lands and exterminate my people? According to your logic Germany should be Chinese or Japanese colony because those asiatic nations had greater culture and history than Germans. :wink

[2Cool]

I believe it would be better... just look at Portugal back then (30's, 40's):

xIThtWQe4os

what say about now Lisbon streets:
http://i.imgur.com/APWLv.jpg

That's easy to say now. You are leaving in a democratic environment and you can voice your opinion freely without repercussions. That wouldn't have been the case at that time. It's weird that you'd rather have less freedom than have a couple of black folks in your neighborhood. You're a disgrace to all the people that have suffered during Salazar's reign.

[GeistFaust]

...And it's the reason why Germans should steal our lands and exterminate my people? According to your logic Germany should be Chinese or Japanese colony because those asiatic nations had greater culture and history than Germans. :wink


He has a point to make though, and trying to compare German culture and accomplishments to the Chinese and Japanese is quite laughable at best. The Germans made vast advancements and progressions in multiple cultural and academic fields, and probably only England/Scotland can be said to equal them. The French can make a fair claim at having a high culture and making many contributions to culture and academia.


That said their mentality and disposition alone is disgusting enough to have them vaulted off that list. I will acknowledge the Baltic peoples have had some notable writers/poets/essayists, but many of the West-Slavic countries have accomplished next to nothing.


The ironic thing is that three of the most important figures in Polish history had foreign history, and 1 had German ancestry and the other two had French. I don't think you can compare what Germany has done in a cultural and academic sense within anyone else in the world, except for England/Scotland, over the last 500 years in some major fields of study.

[Insuperable]

...And it's the reason why Germans should steal our lands and exterminate my people?According to your logic Germany should be Chinese or Japanese colony because those asiatic nations had greater culture and history than Germans. :wink

Not true

[Osprey]

Hitler dies
Someone more moderate comes in
Relaxes Nazi hold on Slavs but keep on removing the Jews.
Germanization culturally would have benefitted the Slavs, although killing was too extreme.
They would have got German efficiency and infrastructure in return for Manpower and Resources.
And they would be allowed to retain their culture but vow loyalty to the Germans.

[arcticwolf]

...And it's the reason why Germans should steal our lands and exterminate my people? According to your logic Germany should be Chinese or Japanese colony because those asiatic nations had greater culture and history than Germans. :wink

Bro, don't even bother. Sobieski made a huge mistake listening to Vatican and defending Vienna. The Hussars should have stayed home. Observe and learn, we will not make this mistake again. Don't bother it's an exercise in futility. ;)

[Rereg]

Bro, don't even bother. Sobieski made a huge mistake listening to Vatican and defending Vienna. The Hussars should have stayed home. Observe and learn, we will not make this mistake again. Don't bother it's an exercise in futility. ;)

Yes, I agree with you, polish servility toward western world is disgusting and self-destructive. :(


Hitler dies
Someone more moderate comes in
Relaxes Nazi hold on Slavs but keep on removing the Jews.
Germanization culturally would have benefitted the Slavs, although killing was too extreme.
They would have got German efficiency and infrastructure in return for Manpower and Resources.
And they would be allowed to retain their culture but vow loyalty to the Germans.

In your wet dream, we will never support German imperialism at the expense of our people/culture.

[Il Principe]

...And it's the reason why Germans should steal our lands and exterminate my people? According to your logic Germany should be Chinese or Japanese colony because those asiatic nations had greater culture and history than Germans. :wink
First of all, I never said anything about "exterminating" the Polish race, my hypersensitive friend. I was merely saying that the German high culture (that of both Prussia and imperial Austria) is objectively superior to most other cultures in the world, including those to the east of Germany. Basically, my post amounted to "German culture represents a step forward in human progress, so it's better if they conquer than get conquered." Neither did I ever say Poland should be wiped off the map, as you clearly think. In an ideal future, Germany could retake its lost eastern regions while Poland could do the same (Poland-Lithuania was quite a glorious nation in its own right). Both countries were net losers in WW2.

Second, Chinese and Japanese don't have an objectively far superior culture to Germans. (Well, of course Imperial China has a much older and greater history, but it's inaccurate to count Sinic civilization as one nation - it's more analogous to "European civilization".)


Bro, don't even bother. Sobieski made a huge mistake listening to Vatican and defending Vienna. The Hussars should have stayed home. Observe and learn, we will not make this mistake again. Don't bother it's an exercise in futility. ;)
Selfish. :P I partly descend from Austrian nobility (on my grandfather's side), and had ancestors who fought alongside Jan Sobieski's troops in the defense of Vienna. I think it was quite a heart-warming feat of European unity, fighting together to expel the mongrel Turks from our European soil.

[Lisa]

That said their mentality and disposition alone is disgusting enough to have them vaulted off that list. I will acknowledge the Baltic peoples have had some notable writers/poets/essayists

Who is it for example?


The ironic thing is that three of the most important figures in Polish history had foreign history, and 1 had German ancestry and the other two had French. I don't think you can compare what Germany has done in a cultural and academic sense within anyone else in the world, except for England/Scotland, over the last 500 years in some major fields of study.

What about Russia?

[Ausência Forçada]

That's easy to say now. You are leaving in a democratic environment and you can voice your opinion freely without repercussions. That wouldn't have been the case at that time. It's weird that you'd rather have less freedom than have a couple of black folks in your neighborhood. You're a disgrace to all the people that have suffered during Salazar's reign.

Of course its more easy to say it now, we just need to have a look to Lisbon suburbs to reach this conclusion, what the maçonic traitors and leftwing scum have done to our country, allowing uncontrolled immigration raid in the last 30 years. The commies were conspiring against Portugal by a foreign power (ussr), were they waiting for kisses and love of the Salazar regime? give me a break and gain some notion. A couple of what? you call to this a couple? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMqMHsxO-Ck) and this is the real disgrace, because a change of regime, or an economic conjucture is reversible, the identity of an ancient people is not... and now im sure you're not portuguese, you're for sure a 3º world immigrant or something.

[arcticwolf]

Well, let's check this theory. This is from Wikipedia, about the greatest German philosopher. It's funny who he thought the Ubermensch were and who he claimed he was.

A common myth is that Nietzsche's ancestors were Polish.[88] Nietzsche himself subscribed to this story toward the end of his life. He wrote in 1888, "My ancestors were Polish noblemen (Nietzky); the type seems to have been well preserved despite three generations of German mothers."[89] At one point Nietzsche becomes even more adamant about his Polish identity. "I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood."[90] On yet another occasion Nietzsche stated "Germany is a great nation only because its people have so much Polish blood in their veins [...] I am proud of my Polish descent."[91] Nietzsche believed his name might have been Germanized, in one letter claiming, "I was taught to ascribe the origin of my blood and name to Polish noblemen who were called Niëtzky and left their home and nobleness about a hundred years ago, finally yielding to unbearable suppression: they were Protestants."[92]

Irony, irony ;)

[Insuperable]

I think that some people here already know that I admire Germany and their culture but I do not see why the world would be any better ( or worse ) if Hitler had won

To him a lot of Europeans were an Untermenschen.
He wanted to terminate entire Russia for a lebensraum.
He wanted to Germanize or conquer/terminate the rest of Europe

I doubt that countries who are Germanic wanted to be Germanized or come under the Great Germany.

[Il Principe]

"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood."[90] On yet another occasion Nietzsche stated "Germany is a great nation only because its people have so much Polish blood in their veins [...] I am proud of my Polish descent."[91]
It's not surprising that Nietzsche admired the harsh, elitist Polish aristocracy and wanted to link himself to them. The man basically worshiped domination and mastery for its own sake, so must have viewed the Polish szlachta as an upper caste of true ubermenschen, in contrast to the liberal Western European societies where egalitarian values had taken hold, and the natural aristocrats were all corrupted and hopelessly soft.

(The Nietzschean superman is quite unrelated to race, but rather to do with personal master morality and domination over one's surroundings. The man himself though the hierarchical Polish nobles best embodied this.)

[cossackpride]

Racial NS policy:

"Germans from Germany (Reichdeutsche) - Nordic Germans are said most favorable, but all German citizens are in the top category.
Germans from outside, active ethnic Germans, honorary "Aryans" from axis European countries in Volksliste category 1 and 2 (see Volksdeutsche).
Germans from outside, passive Germans and members of families, handicapped, political dissidents, common criminals in Volksliste category 3 and 4.
Other Germanic peoples closely related to Germans (Norwegians, Danes, Swedes, Finland-Swedes [11], Estonian Swedes, Faroese, Flemish, Icelanders, English and the Dutch) but treated as categories 1 and 2 in most privileges, especially pro-Nazi sympathizers. Until 1942, the Greeks were included in this category by virtue of their being descendants of the ancient Greeks.
Italians (particularly from regions north of Rome, e.g. Tuscany, Lombardy, etc.), Spaniards (particularly Basques) and Portuguese were treated as category 1 and 2, especially pro-Nazi sympathizers (e.g. Fascist Italy, Francoist Spain, and Salazarist Portugal diplomats)."

http://www.reference.com/browse/%E2%80%9Ccamptown+races%E2%80%9D

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=97543&start=195

Except on the internet and claims thereof, I don't know if I have ever seen a picture of one of these lists. Even then - most additions were very political. Such as the Hungarians who were added only because they were staunch allies.

Especially after the Italians became turncoats in 1943, the German occupation of Northern Italy should be taken as proof that Italians were taken off the list. :D

[Insuperable]

Germans made vast advancements and progressions in multiple cultural and academic fields, and probably only England/Scotland can be said to equal them. The French can make a fair claim at having a high culture and making many contributions to culture and academia.

French and British are on the same level more or less. Germans are on another but close though

[cossackpride]

French and British are on the same level more or less. Germans are on another

The French had the advantage of possessing the Lingua Franca in Europe for centuries. Even in the 1930s / 1940s, French was still the most common diplomat language (although this was less the case outside of Europe).

For intensive purposes the French underperformed considering how large a population they had in the 1800s / 1900s and the literacy of their population. During the Napoleonic Wars - there were more people in France than there were in geographic Germany or the Russian Empire.

[Insuperable]

The French had the advantage of possessing the Lingua Franca in Europe for centuries. Even in the 1930s / 1940s, French was still the most common diplomat language (although this was less the case outside of Europe).

For intensive purposes the French underperformed considering how large a population they had in the 1800s / 1900s and the literacy of their population. During the Napoleonic Wars - there were more people in France than there were in geographic Germany or the Russian Empire.

Population was more or less even in the beginnings of 1800s between France and Germany within historical borders at the time. Russia had according to the Net a population of nearly 40 million during Napoleon wars.



I base my judgements on scientific and philosophical accomplishements, everything else like conquering new areas, spreading language... is insignificant to me.

[cossackpride]

Population was more or less even in the beginnings of 1800s between France and Germany within historical borders at the time. Russia had according to the Net a population of nearly 40 million during Napoleon wars.



I base my judgements on scientific and philosophical accomplishements, everything else like conquering new areas, spreading language... is insignificant to me.

Ah Ha - but you forgot that I included occupied Belgium and Netherlands into the population census. ;) :D

[The Lawspeaker]

Ah Ha - but you forgot that I included occupied Belgium and Netherlands into the population census. ;) :D
Which doesn't belong in it. Belgium and the Netherlands had their own populations and they were just occupied and victimised.

[GeistFaust]

French and British are on the same level more or less. Germans are on another but close though


I would say the British are better then the French, and the British and Germans stand on pretty close level, especially if you include the Scottish into the British identity.

[GeistFaust]

@Nero
What about Russia?[/QUOTE]


Russia has had some notable writers, psychologists, chemists, physicists, poets, ect, which I think probably puts them heads above the rest of the other Slavic peoples in terms of cultural accomplishments.

The Russians were also heavily influenced by Western architecture during the Renaissance, and German/French/Austrian themes later on, which defined a lot of the high culture coming into Russia.

Russia became more high culture when it absorbed more Western elements in their culture, but relatively speaking they come no where close to being able to match the trio of France, English/Scottish, and Germans/Austrians in terms of cultural and academic achivements.

[Insuperable]

I would say the British are better then the French, and the British and Germans stand on pretty close level, especially if you include the Scottish into the British identity.

Yes, I agree. I was a little hasty. I think that England alone is a little better than France.
Germans have more historical figures than Brits. In some areas up to two times more.

[Insuperable]

@Nero
What about Russia?


Russia has had some notable writers, psychologists, chemists, physicists, poets, ect, which I think probably puts them heads above the rest of the other Slavic peoples in terms of cultural accomplishments.

The Russians were also heavily influenced by Western architecture during the Renaissance, and German/French/Austrian themes later on, which defined a lot of the high culture coming into Russia.

Russia became more high culture when it absorbed more Western elements in their culture, but relatively speaking they come no where close to being able to match the trio of France, English/Scottish, and Germans/Austrians in terms of cultural and academic achivements.[/QUOTE]

I agree. Plus they have a large population and they have many notable figures who were Russianized Belorussians, Ukrainians, Armenians...

[Il Principe]

I would say the British are better then the French, and the British and Germans stand on pretty close level, especially if you include the Scottish into the British identity.
Murray's Human Accomplishment ranks the British, French, Germans, and Italians (in that order) as the most advanced and creative peoples in the world. These "Big Four" all scored close to each other, though. I'd put the Italian culture higher, although that's mostly because of personal preference.

(The book goes into closer ethnic and regional detail as well - the Anglo accomplishments were mostly from Eastern England and, by extension, the US Northeastern states. French greatness was disproportionately from the Île-de-France area. Italian glory came almost entirely from Northern and Central Italy, as opposed to the South.)

[Thunor]

I'd also count Russia as one of the "high cultures" in Europe, but still below the France/England/Germany trio. Didn't the Russians consciously import and copy a lot of stuff from Western Europe?


I agree. Plus they have a large population and they have many notable figures who were Russianized Belorussians, Ukrainians, Armenians...
Do those count as Russian figures or not? It's a good question. I remember one of the debates with the Armenoids, when they were screaming about "great Armenian accomplishments", but all of these took place in a Russian context (or German, or American, or whatever). So who can claim those kind of figures?

[sturmwalkure]

All I can say is the world would have been a lot better place. Even better if the war never happened in the first place and Germany continued to be Nationalsocialist.

[alb0zfinest]

A better world, for certain ethnic groups that is.

[Albion]

I'd also count Russia as one of the "high cultures" in Europe, but still below the France/England/Germany trio. Didn't the Russians consciously import and copy a lot of stuff from Western Europe?

"High Cultures" sounds like an interesting concept. I suppose it can be applied to the main nations that have influenced Europe. I'd list Germany, France, England, Spain, Italy, Russia and probably Portugal as "High Cultures".

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/9595/highculturesofeurope.gif

As for Russia copying Western Europe - yes, that is true - especially from France and England (mostly France).

[Contra Mundum]

I believe it would be better... just look at Portugal back then (30's, 40's):

xIThtWQe4os

what say about now Lisbon streets:
http://i.imgur.com/APWLv.jpg

That was an awesome video. Thanks for posting that.

The picture in the link was depressing.:(

[Thunor]

A better world, for certain ethnic groups that is.
Obviously, that goes without saying. I don't think anyone believes that Jews or Russians would have a better world if Hitler had won the war. This thread seems to be more about "would your community be better off or not".


I'd list Germany, France, England, Spain, Italy, Russia and probably Portugal as "High Cultures".
If countries like Spain and Portugal should be on a list of high cultures, I'd lump them together under "Iberian culture".


As for Russia copying Western Europe - yes, that is true - especially from France and England (mostly France).
I'd say they copied the most from Germany. There was even a big German minority in the Russian Empire before the commies took over.

[StonyArabia]

Worse of, especially for people like me or my sister, and other people in the family since we are infected with Semitic blood, but I take pride in it.:)

[alb0zfinest]

Obviously, that goes without saying. I don't think anyone believes that Jews or Russians would have a better world if Hitler had won the war. This thread seems to be more about "would your community be better off or not".


If countries like Spain and Portugal should be on a list of high cultures, I'd lump them together under "Iberian culture".


I'd say they copied the most from Germany. There was even a big German minority in the Russian Empire before the commies took over.

I obviously answered the question by simply implying it, seems you didn't catch it.
"A better world, for certain ethnic groups that is."
Why would i say a better world if it didnt benefit me? :coffee:

[Contra Mundum]

Worse of, especially for people like me or my sister, and other people in the family since we are infected with Semitic blood, but I take pride in it.:)

As long as you aren't Jewish, I don't think you would have much to worry about.

[sturmwalkure]

A better world, for certain ethnic groups that is.

It would have been better for all European ethnic groups I can tell you. There would not be hideous mongrels from all sorts of crevices in the turd world in our once great Europa.

Berlin in 1936
Bwdp1I7M2hQ

Berlin now
SapMxGokXMc

Makes one homicidal.

A German in 1942

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5253/5473887269_ebb2f27657.jpg


A "German" in 2012

http://i50.tinypic.com/2uo15b7.jpg

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad:

[Contra Mundum]

A "German" in 2012

http://i50.tinypic.com/2uo15b7.jpg



Luk at wut da wacism wite man inventid fo me.

[The Lawspeaker]

LOL at the cherry-picking by Petacci.

[Thunor]

As long as you aren't Jewish, I don't think you would have much to worry about.
I don't think he'd exactly be welcome in a national-socialist Canada, if this is what he meant. :P In the eyes of Hitler, a combination of Russian and Semite would definitely rank low in the racial hierarchy.


http://i50.tinypic.com/2uo15b7.jpg
I may puke.

[Contra Mundum]

I don't think he'd exactly be welcome in a national-socialist Canada, if this is what he meant. :P In the eyes of Hitler, a combination of Russian and Semite would definitely rank low in the racial hierarchy.


If NS took over Canada right after WW2, I doubt any Arabs would have been allowed to immigrant into Canada in the first place, so there would have never been a problem there. If there were any, the worst that would have happened would have been deportation. I don't think Hitler was going to throw every non-European white into concentration camps.

A Canadian NS would probably not be as radical as a German one either.

You're probably right though. They wouldn't be welcomed in Canada.

[The Lawspeaker]

Germans today:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Bundeswehr_G36.jpg

http://norderstedt.dlrg.de/sport/Rettungssport/DM2005/fgross.jpg

http://www.f1online.de/premid/003416000/3416876.jpg


Berlin today:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Brandenburger_Tor_abends.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Erster_Spreestrand.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Humboldt_monument.jpg

[Contra Mundum]

Germans today:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Bundeswehr_G36.jpg

http://norderstedt.dlrg.de/sport/Rettungssport/DM2005/fgross.jpg

http://www.f1online.de/premid/003416000/3416876.jpg


Berlin today:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Brandenburger_Tor_abends.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Erster_Spreestrand.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Humboldt_monument.jpg

Now that's cherry picking. Lets pretend Germany is not less German now than in 1939. Whatever.:rolleyes2: I thought Germany today is 20% foreign born and second generation.

[The Lawspeaker]

Now that's cherry picking. Lets pretend Germany is not less German now than in 1939. Whatever.:rolleyes2: I thought Germany today is 20% foreign born and second generation.

20 percent foreign ? Did you also look up what nationalities are living in Germany ? What you people doing is scaremongering and cherry-picking. Yes there is an immigrant problem but to say that Germany is no longer German is bullshit. THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION IS GERMAN... and the same applies to other NATIONALITIES ALL OVER EUROPE.