Do you believe in fate?

[Frigga]

Do you believe in fate? Do you think that there is a force out there in the cosmos whether it is God or the stars or something else that guides us in our daily lives? Or do you think that humans are the sole shapers of their destinies? Please give examples for your stance.

[Hrimskegg]

As tradition dictates, I believe in the Norns, however, the Norns do not decide a person’s destiny. They set things into motion, and we are free to react to these machinations as we please. A beautiful girl enters the room and there is a boy there who is instantly enamored with her; this is the extent of fate. What the two participants do is up to them and their choices in this situation will affect them for good or bad, then afterward they will continue forward, encountering more scenarios like this, each one almost unnoticeably nudging them to a particular destiny. We are the culmination of our experiences, some actions are seen as inherently better than others, the foremost of these being courage. What would that above encounter be like if the boy kept to himself and didn’t approach the girl, what is gained? Nothing. If he does have the courage or she, noticing his interest, and they act upon that, what is there to be lost? A mere moment of their time. If a person does not take courage and the reigns of their life, they will be tossed about on the sea of fate, but if courage is to be had then it will be you doing the nudging, you’ll be deciding where your fate takes you.

[Tabiti]

We are born with certain tendencies, offering us different paths. However, which path are we going to choose depends only on us.

[Rainraven]

I believe some things are out of your control and you cannot change them anymore than you could change the tides. I also believe that you have complete control over yourself. So while fate may dictate a situation that you are put into how you react and what you make of the situation is your own choice. In this way you shape your own destiny.

On a larger level has fate determined the person you are and has the decision you are going to make already been mapped out for you? I don't believe so. There is still a future to be decided and any one individual could alter that path for humankind.

[Anthropos]

Do you believe in fate? Do you think that there is a force out there in the cosmos whether it is God or the stars or something else that guides us in our daily lives? Or do you think that humans are the sole shapers of their destinies? Please give examples for your stance.

I don't believe in Fate, but I believe that time is not just quantitative, but also qualitative, and that, for as long as no too hasty conclusion is drawn from it, it can truly be said that the things that happen are 'signs of the times', and, although this next expression should not be taken literally, that there is something like a 'zeitgeist' (lower case intentional) for each moment in time.

Of course, the 'zeitgeist', which I refer to for lack of a better word, is also always connected to a certain place in space, another partially qualitative magnitude. The 'zeitgeist' is never exactly the same for all places at the same time; any given moment in time is unique; that moment never occured before and will never occur again, and the qualitative determinations of time overlap with the qualitative determinations of space to form unique circumstances.

Furthermore, - and this is why I do not believe in Fate - human beings and their exercising of their will can not be understood solely as the result of temporal and spatial determinations. What human beings do matter, be it secretly or publicly. I believe what I said is in accord with these quotes, which I proffer in this context to show that I did not make all this up arbitrarily, and that it can be understood in the context of traditional religion:

Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! (The Gospel according to Matthew 18:7.)

Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! [...] Take heed to yourselves. (The Gospel according to Luke 17:1,3.)

So, in other words, I believe that almost anything can be taken as an example of how the things that happen are in the sense described attached to the time in which they unfold.

To take a few examples for which I do not need to depend on anyone else's account, I think that it is appalling the way in which certain tendencies spread and assert themselves very much (as if) according to a diabolical plan. I think that the surveillance hysteria of our time is a rather typical example of this. The way in which American and European Union interests cooperate is another thing that can hardly be seen as a mere coincidence. 'Democracy', 'human rights' and 'free press' along with the way in which these are used to promote Western chauvinism can likewise hardly be seen as the result of some mistake or unfortunate coincidence, for it looks much more as if there is really a thought out plan behind it. The spread of a faith of and in evolution such as that of Richard Dawkins is another example, and all of the things that I mentioned as examples overlap and cooperate in a fashion that certainly seems much more like a plan than as a coincidence, regardless of the extent to which the agents - those by whom the offence cometh - are aware of it.

[Eldritch]

We are born with certain tendencies, offering us different paths. However, which path are we going to choose depends only on us.

Our personality is more or less cemented in place by the time we are old enough to start school. In that sense, yes, I do believe in what might be called "fate".

[Svanhild]

I don't believe in fate or destiny but I believe that we were born with individual strenghts and weaknesses and that these characteristics set the agenda to some degree.

I'll let this songtext talk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSM7fbDNlyE

[Liffrea]

Wyrd teaches the interconnection of all things in spatial-temporal contexts but it’s not fate per se, though we are influenced by the actions of others, and though some claim the ability to see patterns, a man is very much master of his own fate and his own fate is determined by his will and his character.

[Sigrid]

I believe that we all have a destiny and I tend to be of the thinking that while we determine most of our own fate that we also are pre-ordained (somehow and in some way) to have a fate that is beyond our control.

[arcticwolf]

I tend not put too much "faith" in beliefs ;) As to what my take on this subject is, that depends on whether one is a one time phenomenon or not and how one understands the concept of fate. I see it more in terms of cause and effect, and perpetual recycling process until one evolves to the level of not having have to go through this whole cosmic dance anymore. I can't prove it, it's just a gut feeling and a result of observation of how it all works down here.

[Seeker]

For me, fate is like letting things on auto pilot and see how it goes, it might crash, it might land... you never really know, you just have to wait and see how it will end up. Its not really up to you... its up to fate. All bullshit.

Theres no fate, its only us that we curve our future and drive this "life vehicle". Fate is for failures.Apparently, it seems that for a lot of people fate is a pretty good damn thing to put blames on for a galore of personal failures.Fate this, fate that. No sir, its just your stupid self. Accept it and go on, or deal with it.

From my personal experience, i have noticed that when everything is alright and "awesome" theres no fate-luck factor it all done/achieved thanks to our fking-brilliant-smart-awesome selves, coincidence? think not.

[Logan]

It is not in the stars to hold our destiny but in ourselves; we are underlings.

William Shakespeare

[BanjaLuka]

I don't believe in fate but fate believes in me! :tongue:

PS
Don't say you did not see this coming, someone was supposed to write it in this thread....:rolleyes:

[Hurrem sultana]

Partly,,its not pure fate but our actions too

[Oreka Bailoak]

There probably is fate (predetermination, destiny).

However those who don't believe in fate probably have a stronger internal locus of control, are more ambitious and are able to accomplish more in life than those who believe in predetermination (go with the flow attitude). Not always but generally for most people I think that is the case.

[Veneda]

Fate throws fortune, but not everyone catches.
Polish proverb

[Templar]

Yes, I do believe in preordained fate and destiny

“I don’t know what the future holds, but I know who holds the future”

:pray: :pray: :pray:


…And it isn’t the Prophet Mohammed :dev2

[antonio]

I used to be sceptical about it. Till a certain time when I started to find out amazing coincidences in my whole life. Now I am an almost supersticious person continously drawing lines among reasonabely unrelated events.

[Templar]

Fate throws fortune, but not everyone catches.
Polish proverb

I like that proverb.

I think the Equivalent in the US is: "There is no such thing as fate. Fate is when opportunity and preparation meet". :confused:

[Veneda]

I like that proverb.

I think the Equivalent in the US is: "There is no such thing as fate. Fate is when opportunity and preparation meet". :confused:

More or less. But Polish version is less complicated :)

[Ville]

It is not in the stars to hold our destiny but in ourselves; we are underlings.

William Shakespeare

Within our ontological vocabulary, Fate cannot be separated from Time.

And Time - although easily observable – seems to be a unique mystery that may be completely hidden from comprehension by our human type of consciousness, our two-dimensional minds that are doomed to never escape the confinements of the Moebius strip.

I picture how, a thousand years from now, the stars will be looking down at the dust that was once us. And the stars will be thinking: poor ants, they dreamed of things, big things… they dreamed of what even we, stars, do not comprehend…

[Logan]

Within our ontological vocabulary, Fate cannot be separated from Time.

And Time - although easily observable – seems to be a unique mystery that may be completely hidden from comprehension by our human type of consciousness, our two-dimensional minds that are doomed to never escape the confinements of the Moebius strip.

I picture how, a thousand years from now, the stars will be looking down at the dust that was once us. And the stars will be thinking: poor ants, they dreamed of things, big things… they dreamed of what even we, stars, do not comprehend…

Aye. Yet who before or after has our awareness?:)

[Mordid]

I believe it's a 50/50 way. Sometimes things are meant to happen and sometimes it's what you make of it, the choices you make.

[mymy]

Yes, but i also believe in personal choice also. Destiny can send you something, but you decide what will you do with it. And i believe it's only about important things in life, not ordinary everyday things. Some people can feel all things in their life are "fated", some people will feel everything in their life is personal choice, it's individual. Everything is individual.

[xor eax, eax]

Depends largely on your definition of fate. I believe causal determinism explains our actions because it makes sense thinking in terms of physics, but that's not what most people are referring to when they mention fate.

[Drawing-slim]

Of course you have to belive in some kind of fate.
If we just take a look at history, winers vs losers, losers put just as much affort if not more to meet that aportunity and be rememberd as victors, but they came just a little short.

Also in sports competion etc, no one remmebers the second place finishies ever, and in so many cases those were the true talents of that particular sport.

Some people are destined to be winners and some people no matter what yhey do are destined to be losers.
But losers have more likable character in my opinion, since i do find winers vain pathetic boring existences in general, in individual bases.

[Ville]

Aye. Yet who before or after has our awareness?:)

Well, actually the following proprietary model always made sense to me.

Since we and most objects of the visible Universe are made of the same stardust, since we are part of the same dynamics of expansion, I would like to posit that all matter may carry some common footprint of mutual awareness or even universal consciousness, if you will. (uhm, obviously this proposed type of interaction would have to live somewhere outside of the Standard Model :))

Continuing this line, perhaps distinct objects, and even Universe itself, developed distinct and orthogonal types of consciousness with distinct comprehension of Time, for example.

So, as is all matter, we humans too are locked in our own prison of consciousness, but the common footprint of universal consciousness is how we can “sense” the World and discover it’s true laws. Take our ability to use abstract notions and models which is rather awesome. We “sense” as we embark on empirical discovery, then we create abstract theoretical model, then we can confirm the models work! And being part of the universal consciousness is what enables the discovery.

I know, I know - I am getting dangerously close to introducing a notion of Deity, so I better stop or I will ruin my career…

[Logan]

Well, actually the following proprietary model always made sense to me.

Since we and most objects of the visible Universe are made of the same stardust, since we are part of the same dynamics of expansion, I would like to posit that all matter may carry some common footprint of mutual awareness or even universal consciousness, if you will. (uhm, obviously this proposed type of interaction would have to live somewhere outside of the Standard Model :))

Continuing this line, perhaps distinct objects, and even Universe itself, developed distinct and orthogonal types of consciousness with distinct comprehension of Time, for example.

So, as is all matter, we humans too are locked in our own prison of consciousness, but the common footprint of universal consciousness is how we can “sense” the World and discover it’s true laws. Take our ability to use abstract notions and models which is rather awesome. We “sense” as we embark on empirical discovery, then we create abstract theoretical model, then we can confirm the models work! And being part of the universal consciousness is what enables the discovery.

I know, I know - I am getting dangerously close to introducing a notion of Deity, so I better stop or I will ruin my career…


'Every age is the same. It's only love that makes any of them bearable.'

H.G. Wells in 'Time After Time'.

[Edelmann]

I'm a determinist, but I'm not sure if that's quite what the OP meant. There's no convincing reason to believe in free will that I've discovered, and yet many examples of determinism in nature. It's a small step to conclude that humans behave according to the same rules as other phenomena.

[Curtis24]

Yes, every effect has a cause. Just enjoy the ride :thumb001:

[Boudica]

Certain fate, yes..

[Nameless Son]

Realms of the shadows bring me no fear
I may stand or be beaten and torn
The mountains will stand but the life of a man
Was decided long befoooore he was booorn

*headbangs vigorously* DEGUDUG DAH! DEGUDUG DAH! DEGUDUG DAH!

.....

Yes.

[Nameless Son]

I should clarify. Yes, I do believe in fate. If for no other reason because I believe determinism is true. But I also believe we hold our fates in our own hands... wait that is another Bathory lyric, huh? Basically if you want my opinion just look up a bunch of Bathory lyrics. :D

[AussieScott]

I believe in fate, but it's also what you make of it.

[Rygg]

No, everything has a logical explanation.

[Hevneren]

What is fate? Is it divine intervention? In that case, no. Is it it a serious of events logically converging into another event based upon eternal laws of physics? Well, sure. Is it fate that the ball I drop lands on the floor? If so, then gravity itself is an agent of fate.

Some events are determined to take place in a certain sequence, shaping our world in a certain way, like how water eventually will turn sharp rocks round and smooth. It just takes time and an even flow of water.

If asked if I believe in fate, I'll ask what is meant by "fate". I do believe that humanity has a limited free will, just as I believe there are limits to how nature and the universe operates, so I do believe there are certain limitations on where the future leads us. That being said, there is a huge wiggle room from which not only we but the universe as a whole can branch out into new and unexpected paths.

[Nameless Son]

No, everything has a logical explanation.

And therefore is fated, no?