The Welsh Dragon Flag Is The Devil And Should Be Changed, Says Christian Party

[Loki]

The Welsh Dragon Flag Is The Devil And Should Be Changed, Says Christian Party (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/22/european-elections-welsh-flag-demonic-christian-party_n_5370977.html)

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1810691/thumbs/n-WALES-FLAG-large570.jpg

A group of Christians say Wales's national flag is "demonic" and should be changed.

The Welsh Christian Party claims the red dragon on the nation's standard is at odds with the country's position as a Christian nation. It wants the flag to be replaced with the black and gold cross of St David.

Party leader the Rev George Hargreaves said a symbol of the devil should not "reign over Wales for another moment". He said: "Wales is the only country in history to have a red dragon on its national flag.

"This is the very symbol of the devil described in the Book of Revelation 12:3. This is nothing less than the sign of Satan, the devil, Lucifer, that ancient serpent who deceived Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden."

The party has launched an online petition calling for a referendum to allow the Welsh people to decide which flag they would prefer.

Historians and even fellow Christians said the symbol of the dragon had a "long tradition" in Wales and was a source of pride.

Welsh historian John Davies said: "It's been part of our tradition for more than 1,500 years. On the other hand the flag of St David has a much more specific remit.

"When you see the Welsh flag you know what it is. It is recognisable in the same way the Union Jack or Stars and Stripes are. What is the point of changing it now?"

Bishop David Yeoman said few Christians in Wales would associate the dragon with the devil.

He said: "The dragon is a very ancient symbol in Wales. I doubt whether most Christians would see it as demonic. They see it as a symbol of the past."

Gregory Barker, acting head of the school of theology and religious studies at Trinity College, Carmarthen, said many Christian countries had flags without a specific religious symbol on them.

He added: "What's most important is that the flag is something the citizens of that country can endorse."

[Dictator]

Oh, my Christian brothers? Why are they doing this? :picard1:

[CordedWhelp]

Actually, it is representative of Satan, or at the very least, a symbol of the serpent-bloodlines which have mingled there (and then thenceforth spread)

[Empecinado]

Bullshit, it has nothing to do with Satanism. The dragon was used in the Middle Ages by other Christians besides Welsh, and they were far from being Satanists in fact they protected and spreaded Christianity:

http://fotos00.diariodemallorca.es/fotos/noticias/318x200/2009-01-18_IMG_2009-01-11_21:57:59_correo_20090109_131133_1_15_1.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_VlPFHFxRLOg/TLK9c0hgbHI/AAAAAAAADXM/kQTXt5swpJs/s1600/Jaime_I.JPG

[Rædwald]

Leave it up to the Christians to ruin one of the most bad ass, and unique flags.

[Caismeachd]

They should add a pentagram to it just to screw with those lunatics a bit more.

[Smaug]

Stupid cunts. Y Ddraig Goch is the symbol of Wales, a memory of our pagan times. St. Davi's flag was invented in the last century.

[Rudel]

Leave it up to the Christians to ruin one of the most bad ass, and unique flags.
Implying the heraldic isn't Christian to begin with.

[Catkin]

Silly billys. Whatever their origin, symbols only represent their current interpretation. If people see it as representing the positives of a country then that is its current meaning.

[Breedingvariety]

"Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world. He was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him."

[♥ Lily ♥]

3:16 - 3:37

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuJ6zeMlVSY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2IUkEFPL0g

This is how the Union Jack would look if the Celtic Welsh Dragon flag symbol was included over the cross symbols of St. George and St Andrew:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d0/Union_Jack_Wales_Dragon.png/800px-Union_Jack_Wales_Dragon.png

I think it looks interesting and artistic and more unique from other flags on the planet. :cool: Nobody would want to mess with the UK in the future if they saw a fire-blowing dragon on the flag. :P

[GreentheViper]

Welsh flag is BA tho.

[Longbowman]

don't put it on the Union Jack for both aesthetic and historical reasons, but the welsh flag remains independently awesome

[Zorruko]

This is a complete none sense. Although the relation between a serpent and a dragon is that people believe that both are reptiles (though nobody have ever seen a dragon, at least nobody alive), it's an antique symbol of Wales, and should be preserved as such...

[Wadaad]

The most satanic and evil flag is the Sardinian one...they boast of beheading Muslims. But when we boast, we are labeled ISIS etc

[Dick]

The most satanic and evil flag is the Sardinian one...they boast of beheading Muslims. But when we boast, we are labeled ISIS etc

You boast about muslims beheading christians :confused: That's evil, man

[Wadaad]

You boast about muslims beheading christians :confused: That's evil, man

and how many timesdid you call me a terrorist? Plenty

Nobody calls Sardinian terrorists..thats my point

[Longbowman]

and how many timesdid you call me a terrorist? Plenty

Nobody calls Sardinian terrorists..thats my point

they do call them scopapecore though and they had a culture of banditry that persisted until the 1980s.

[Dick]

and how many timesdid you call me a terrorist? Plenty

Nobody calls Sardinian terrorists..thats my point

You're a terrorist. Sardinians were defending their land.

[Ruggery]

don't put it on the Union Jack for both aesthetic and historical reasons, but the welsh flag remains independently awesome

Why in the Union Jack there is no representation of the flag of Wales if it is assumed that the Union Jack represents the whole UK?

[Longbowman]

Why in the Union Jack there is no representation of the flag of Wales if it is assumed that the Union Jack represents the whole UK?

Very simple - the UK is the United Kingdom, formed 1707 by a union of the Kingdoms of England and Scotland, hence the incorporation of both their national flags. In 1801 the Kingdom of Ireland was added and the flag was changed accordingly. Wales was a principality of England and not an independent polity (hasn't been since the 13th century barring a brief period of independence for Gwynedd under Owain Glyndwr in the early 1400s). Ergo, it is not featured on the flag.

[Tooting Carmen]

Very simple - the UK is the United Kingdom, formed 1707 by a union of the Kingdoms of England and Scotland, hence the incorporation of both their national flags. In 1801 the Kingdom of Ireland was added and the flag was changed accordingly. Wales was a principality of England and not an independent polity (hasn't been since the 13th century barring a brief period of independence for Gwynedd under Owain Glyndwr in the early 1400s). Ergo, it is not featured on the flag.

Wales was incorporated into England (or rather Britain) officially in 1536. Before then it was mostly just irregular incursions.

[♥ Lily ♥]

So much fuss over a dragon picture. :rolleyes: :cool:

What do people think of the Isle of Man's flag?

https://www.theflagshop.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/s/isle-of-man-flag-std.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Isle_of_Man_Flag.jpg

The Manx people still keep a 1000 year old Viking parliament on their island.


The High Court of Tynwald is the parliament of the Isle of Man and has an unlimited, but not necessarily exclusive, legislative competence. Tynwald is of Norse origin and over 1,000 years old, and is thus the oldest parliament in the world with an unbroken existence.

It has two Branches, the Legislative Council and the House of Keys, which sit separately to consider legislation, but also sit together in Douglas, and annually at St John's, for other parliamentary purposes.

http://www.tynwald.org.im/Pages/default.aspx

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tynwald

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/Flag_of_the_Tynwald_%28Parliament_of_the_Isle_Of_M an%29.png

Oh, and look out for those Manx cats that are born without tails on them.... (it may be a sign that the cat is a familiar... :P)

[Tooting Carmen]

The Manx flag looks like a headless Morris dancer!

[Longbowman]

Wales was incorporated into England (or rather Britain) officially in 1536. Before then it was mostly just irregular incursions.

? no. Wales was incorporated into the Kingdom of England (Britain not existing as a polity at the time) well before that. The laws of the 1530s just codified the situation. By this point a Welshman by the name of Tudur had even become King of England.

[Tooting Carmen]

? no. Wales was incorporated into the Kingdom of England (Britain not existing as a polity at the time) well before that. The laws of the 1530s just codified the situation. By this point a Welshman by the name of Tudur had even become King of England.

Wales' main problem was that, unlike Scotland, it seldom was united, so most of the time English monarchs and lords could buy off different princes to fight each other.

[Wadaad]

Wales' main problem was that, unlike Scotland, it seldom was united, so most of the time English monarchs and lords could buy off different princes to fight each other.

the curse of all shepherd people

[Longbowman]

Wales' main problem was that, unlike Scotland, it seldom was united, so most of the time English monarchs and lords could buy off different princes to fight each other.

Yes it wasn't one polity, but rather many - finally Gwynedd of course.

[♥ Lily ♥]

The ancient City of London has dragons on their crest (below on the left) and nobody freaks-out over the sight of the dragons.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IKd1A5ZmJSs/UuF8sl3Vl_I/AAAAAAAACDI/ywETGWJ1XZg/s1600/london_city.jpg

The City of London ('the financial district' and 'square mile') in Central London is guarded by statues of dragons as explained in the short video below. The City of London acts like its own country and has its own flag (shown above on the right,) and a separate mayor to the rest of London, separate laws and taxes, etc, and the corporations that run the CoL are older than the United Kingdom. They have a large Masonic Temple building there too, (just waiting for the conspiracy theorists to freak-out! :P) Even the Queen has to gain formal permission from The Right Honourable The Lord Mayor during a ceremony before she's allowed to enter into the City of London:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrObZ_HZZUc

[Westbrook]

Actually, it is representative of Satan, or at the very least, a symbol of the serpent-bloodlines which have mingled there (and then thenceforth spread)

Sounds good to me

[♥ Lily ♥]

25 design picture ideas by UK people for a new Union Jack flag incase Scotland goes independent. New design ideas also include the Welsh flag too. Northern Ireland may be reunited with the rest of Ireland one day. I think Labour's Jeremy Corbyn would support that.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25222891

I've also seen some design ideas in recent years with black colours used in the UK flag to represent diversity and a modern UK, although some people may be nervous of trying new colours or adventurous artwork. I think the crosses should be removed and no religious imagery should be included - as the UK is a multi-religious nation and people here are entitled to their own democratic views and beliefs. We're also a multi-ethnic and multi-racial society too.

Some designs incorporate the Cornish flag:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/be0AAOSw~gRVsg8h/s-l300.jpg

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/71533000/jpg/_71533053_350647.jpg
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/media/images/71534000/jpg/_71534765_350655.jpg

I like these designs:

The design also includes England's 3 Lions emblem in addition to the Welsh dragon.
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/71534000/jpg/_71534906_350727.jpg
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/71533000/png/_71533057_350645.png
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/71557000/jpg/_71557957_350551.jpg
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/71533000/jpg/_71533812_350636.jpg
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/71534000/png/_71534707_350553.png
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/71558000/jpg/_71558284_350793.jpg
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/71533000/jpg/_71533613_350638.jpg
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/71534000/png/_71534675_350611.png


The Union Jack has never been officially adopted as the emblem of the United Kingdom but has just ‘fallen into use’. The New Union Flag is a modified version of the Union Jack, which includes designs of former colonized communities and of various ethnic and national groups that live in the UK today.

https://whoareweproject.com/the-new-union-flag-from-an-object-of-agitation-to-a-space-of-communication

https://whoareweproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/union2.jpg
https://orig00.deviantart.net/cd7c/f/2013/114/7/9/union_jack_butterfly_by_angrydogdesigns-d62w598.png

I would personally like to see flowers and bird designs on the flag... we could use the national flower emblems of each country (England's red rose emblem and the Welsh daffodil emblem).... and national birds too.... I love butterflies and hearts too.. and lots of soft pink tones, lilacs, pastel blues, etc. Soft green would represent the countryside landscape. Something that's artistic and unique and represents peace and love. New design ideas should be submitted by the public and the most popular design should be democratically nominated by the public, rather than the government deciding for the people.
https://clareisaacs.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/diffuj-flowers-rgb.jpg
http://static1.squarespace.com/static/539954d3e4b05f207a4595f6/54136350e4b094b0b04cf3cc/541366eee4b094b0b04db066/1410559708073/?format=1000w

[Graham]

Wales' main problem was that, unlike Scotland, it seldom was united, so most of the time English monarchs and lords could buy off different princes to fight each other.

We had Robert the Bruce, Wales didn't. He had to kill a good few Scots. :p

[Longbowman]

@Lily: all those designs are awful. Also, I'm actually a non-Christian in the UK - unlike you I'm not even of Christian background, and removing the crosses from the flag because some people aren't Christian is nothing less than cultural and historical desecration. Christianity was (and remains) an important part of our history, development and culture (you don't realise it, but all Christian holidays are national holidays and zero non-Christian holidays are national holidays, for instance, which is both useful and irritating for people like me, in different measures). Indeed, the Lords Spiritual still sit in the House of Lords and the head of State (HM the Queen) is also head of the CoE.

Cultural vandals and anarchist ideologues might one day reduce this nation to its knees and perhaps even cast Scotland and Northern Ireland adrift and elevate the county of Cornwall to the status of country (lol why?), and even change the flag to a crescent moon on a rainbow, but even if that happened, and it won't, it wouldn't change the fact that this country was, for better or worse, build on Christian foundations. Long live the Union Jack in its current state!

Putting birds and slugs and glitter or whatever on our flag will just make us a laughing stock. Our flag as it is commands respect and is an internationally recognised symbol of Britain - it also appears on a score of other national and regional flags. As New Zealand proved (based New Zealand!) subjecting the population to a pointless debate over a flag nearly everyone's happy with anyway in the name of democracy is a waste of money and time the government could better use to feed the homeless and vote on issues that actually matter.

[Ruggery]

25 design picture ideas by UK people for a new Union Jack flag incase Scotland goes independent. New design ideas also include the Welsh flag too. Northern Ireland may be reunited with the rest of Ireland one day. I think Labour's Jeremy Corbyn would support that.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25222891

I've also seen some design ideas in recent years with black colours used in the UK flag to represent diversity and a modern UK, although some people may be nervous of trying new colours or adventurous artwork. I think the crosses should be removed and no religious imagery should be included - as the UK is a multi-religious nation and people here are entitled to their own democratic views and beliefs. We're also a multi-ethnic and multi-racial society too.

Some designs incorporate the Cornish flag:

I would personally like to see flowers and bird designs on the flag... we could use the national flower emblems of each country (England's red rose emblem and the Welsh daffodil emblem).... and national birds too.... I love butterflies and hearts too.. and lots of soft pink tones, lilacs, pastel blues, etc. Soft green would represent the countryside landscape. Something that's artistic and unique and represents peace and love. New design ideas should be submitted by the public and the most popular design should be democratically nominated by the public, rather than the government deciding for the people.


Lily, without offending the United Kingdom, keeps all designs except the first two, the first one looks like a flag that people see after smoking a cannabis joint and the second design looks like the LGBT version of the United Kingdom if the United Kingdom use those designs for your flag instead of respect will inspire laughter.

[Neon Knight]

Firstly, should Wales be considered a country of the UK like Scotland and N.Ireland? Would it take some special legislation to raise its status from being an annex of England?

[SexyLionMan]

WTF? The red dragon itself has been associated with Wales for centuries, though the origin of the adoption of the dragon symbol is now lost in history and myth. A possible theory is that the Romans brought the emblem to what is now Wales during their occupation of Britain in the form of the Draco standards borne by the Roman cavalry, itself inspired by the symbols of the Dacians, Parthians or Sarmatians.

[Benyzero]

They want to remove everything which has to do something with the old european traditions before christianism.

[TheOldNorth]

Actually, it is representative of Satan, or at the very least, a symbol of the serpent-bloodlines which have mingled there (and then thenceforth spread)

The dragon was not a symbol of satan originally, but rather a metaphor for the brittons themselves, in their struggle with the white dragon (the english)

[Dick]

The Order of the Dragon (Latin: Societas Draconistarum, literally "Society of the Dragonists") was a monarchical chivalric order for selected nobility,[1] founded in 1408 by Sigismund von Luxembourg who was King of Hungary (r. 1387–1437) at the time and later became Holy Roman Emperor (r. 1433–1437). It was fashioned after the military orders of the Crusades, requiring its initiates to defend the cross and fight the enemies of Christianity, in particular the Ottoman Empire.

[Loki]

Firstly, should Wales be considered a country of the UK like Scotland and N.Ireland? Would it take some special legislation to raise its status from being an annex of England?

Northern Ireland is not considered a country... rather just a province.