is criticism of Israel Antisemitism?

[Yehiel]

My opinion: I think not, there are a significant amount of religious Jews that criticize Israel (me included) and im not antisemitic. I see this is a claim often used by xians who are obsessed with Israel. When i read debates on a page, the xians always say this (there are not many Jews on the page but this is also common among secular zionist Jews).

Enough of what i think, here is what Israelis think..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44-VeDq-lVU

[Tacitus]

No

[EyeOfTheTiger]

no

[ЛыSSый]

definition: any words, actions or omissions, which which clearly do not contain glorification of jews or israel are antisemitic.

[Jackson]

No. Attacking Jews because of their Jewishness is anti-semitism.

[Yehiel]

definition: any words, actions or omissions, which which clearly do not contain glorification of jews or israel are antisemitic.

no thats not the definition

[Bamse]

Not necessarily. But I think that some anti-Semites are hiding behind a facade of anti-Zionism.

[ЛыSSый]

no thats not the definition thanks, its a good example of antisemitism.

[Yehiel]

Not necessarily. But I think that some anti-Semites are hiding behind a facade of anti-Zionism.

yes i do believe some are like that also, i think saying that Israel does not deserve to exist might be linked to antisemitism but not all the time

[Kiyant]

Some hide behind Anti-Zionism to hide their general hatred for all Jews

[Yehiel]

Some hide behind Anti-Zionism to hide their general hatred for all Jews

This is common in middle east.

[Kiyant]

This is common in middle east.

Not only in the middle east (also noticed it here in Germany)

[Yehiel]

Not only in the middle east (also noticed it here in Germany)

doesnt surprise me as antisemitism is clearly on the rise in Europe (or people are just showing it more or we are just hearing about it more)

[Bamse]

yes i do believe some are like that also, i think saying that Israel does not deserve to exist might be linked to antisemitism but not all the time

Think about it. It doesn't make sense that so many people with no links to the conflict personally are so intrigued by it. Why this enourmous enthusiasm for the Palestinians? Shits going down all over the globe. What about the people in Tibet? Burma?

What exactly have made the Palestinian cause such a holy grail to so many that normally would have no link to this conflict, other than anti-semitism? Its naive to assume anti-semitism nearly vanished after ww2.

[Kiyant]

doesnt surprise me as antisemitism is clearly on the rise in Europe (or people are just showing it more or we are just hearing about it more)

Problem is the general view of the media in Europe and the way Israels government is "handling" things (which sucks major ass)

[Musso]

What is SHOULD be:

Anti-Semitic = prejudice against Semitic people = prejudice against Israelis, Palestinians, Jordanians, Syrians, Saudis, and so forth.
Anti-Israeli = opposition to the State of Israel, its politics and policies
Anti-Jewish = opposition to Jewish people, their culture, and history.
Jew-phobic = prejudice/discrimination of Jews based on racial, historic, and other reasons.

[Yehiel]

Think about it. It doesn't make sense that so many people with no links to the conflict personally are so intrigued by it. Why this enourmous enthusiasm for the Palestinians? Shits going down all over the globe. What about the people in Tibet? Burma?

What exactly have made the Palestinian cause such a holy grail to so many that normally would have no link to this conflict, other than anti-semitism? Its naive to assume anti-semitism nearly vanished after ww2.

You are right, i think a lot of the reason people pay so much attention to it is because we are Jews, not only that but the Palis have a big supporting around the Middle East and they are constantly talking about it.

[Yehiel]

Problem is the general view of the media in Europe and the way Israels government is "handling" things (which sucks major ass)

I agree about what you said about the government. I think its to late for the annexing of all Judea & Samaria.. The government needs to put an end to this because the conflict has been going on for to long. However, the Palis also need to give up some things for peace (I dont believe that should have a army).

[Yehiel]

What is SHOULD be:

Anti-Semitic = prejudice against Semitic people = prejudice against Israelis, Palestinians, Jordanians, Syrians, Saudis, and so forth.
Anti-Israeli = opposition to the State of Israel, its politics and policies
Anti-Jewish = opposition to Jewish people, their culture, and history.
Jew-phobic = prejudice/discrimination of Jews based on racial, historic, and other reasons.

Im not sure how Jew hated became to be known as Antisemitism anyway

[Musso]

Im not sure how Jew hated became to be known as Antisemitism anyway

Me neither. An Arab just as an Jew can be victim of antisemitism.

[Yehiel]

Me neither. An Arab just as an Jew can be victim of antisemitism.

off topic but i would like if Israel and Armenia could have better relations, we share a lot of similarities

[Musso]

off topic but i would like if Israel and Armenia could have better relations, we share a lot of similarities

Yeah we should, unfortunately it seems Israel has better relations with Azerbaijan - our arch-foe. :/

But the both of us:

-Have small countries
-Little natural resources
-Surrounded by bigger in size enemies, which are Muslim in their religion and want to destroy us.
-Large diaspora
-Suffered Genocides
-Smart and innovative people
-Ancient culture

and so forth.

[Yehiel]

Yeah we should, unfortunately it seems Israel has better relations with Azerbaijan - our arch-foe. :/

But the both of us:

-Have small countries
-Little natural resources
-Surrounded by bigger in size enemies, which are Muslim in their religion and want to destroy us.
-Large diaspora
-Suffered Genocides
-Smart and innovative people
-Ancient culture

and so forth.

Not only azerbaijan but seems the government has chose Turkey over Armenia also, sad...

[Musso]

Not only azerbaijan but seems the government has chose Turkey over Armenia also, sad...

Yes, I do hope Israel at least recognizes Armenian Genocide. It's a shame that it's not recognized in order to please Turkey, a country which really hates Israel, especially their leadership.

[Yehiel]

Yes, I do hope Israel at least recognizes Armenian Genocide. It's a shame that it's not recognized in order to please Turkey, a country which really hates Israel, especially their leadership.

Yes the citizens recognize it, the government not :picard2:

[Musso]

Yes the citizens recognize it, the government not :picard2:

They always mention that they will bring it to the Knesset then nothing happens. To my knowledge some of the Israeli Right doesn't want to recognize it because they don't want to ruin relations with Turks/Azeris.

[Kiyant]

Yes, I do hope Israel at least recognizes Armenian Genocide. It's a shame that it's not recognized in order to please Turkey, a country which really hates Israel, especially their leadership.

Thats just media the trade volume between Israel and Turkey got higher since Erdogan is president also Erdogan thanked Israel for their condolescence about the Soma mine incident

[Yehiel]

They always mention that they will bring it to the Knesset then nothing happens. To my knowledge some of the Israeli Right doesn't want to recognize it because they don't want to ruin relations with Turks/Azeris.


yes its because turkey is apart of nato

[Musso]

Thats just media the trade volume between Israel and Turkey got higher since Erdogan is president also Erdogan thanked Israel for their condolescence about the Soma mine incident

I could imagine, for that and given Israel doesn't have many friendly countries in the region, it's in its interests to keep normal relations with Turkey.


yes its because turkey is apart of nato

And that.

[Kiyant]

I could imagine, for that and given Israel doesn't have many friendly countries in the region, it's in its interests to keep normal relations with Turkey.



And that.

And the other big problem is that Armenia/Armenians are quite friendly to Iran and i think everyone knows what Iran and Israel think of each other

[Musso]

And the other big problem is that Armenia/Armenians are quite friendly to Iran and i think everyone knows what Iran and Israel think of each other

Well given the dual blockade on us, we have no choice, but to be friendly with the Iranians for economic trade. The West understands this and allows it. That being said, the Azeri President was recently in Iran and they also seem to have normal relations recently and Iran is also normal with Turkey, and trade volume is much higher with Turkey of course and both have opposition to Kurdish independent movements. Moreover, it has been said that Iranians use Turkish banks to escape some of the Western sanctions.

[SkyBurn]

It can be anti-Semitism. Depends on the person's motivations. To me, as a general rule, the leftists who criticise Israel tend to not be anti-semitic, and the rightists tend to be. But that's by not means applicable to all.

[Anglojew]

Not unless the same standards aren't applied elsewhere (eg to Israel's neighbours). Not unless Israel isn't singled out whilst others are ignored.

[Yehiel]

Not unless the same standards aren't applied elsewhere (eg to Israel's neighbours). Not unless Israel isn't singled out whilst others are ignored.

We are held to much higher standards then our neighboors and i think this is very unfair

[Tooting Carmen]

To answer the OP question: although some genuine anti-Semites may indeed criticise Israel as a cover for their real agenda, criticism of Israel per se is NOT anti-Semitic whatsoever. To claim otherwise is a disgusting smear and shuts down perfectly legitimate debate.

[Anglojew]

We are held to much higher standards then our neighboors and i think this is very unfair

Agreed. Imagine Israel had killed 120,000+ Arab civilians like Assad. Imagine the UN resolutions and protests. Israel is used as a diversion tactic by Muslims and others to discourage analysis of their own countries human rights records or as a scapegoat to try and unite their citizens to fight a common enemy.

[Yehiel]

Agreed. Imagine Israel had killed 120,000+ Arab civilians like Assad. Imagine the UN resolutions and protests. Israel is used as a diversion tactic by Muslims and others to discourage analysis of their own countries human rights records or as a scapegoat to try and unite their citizens to fight a common enemy.

Yes.. You see Israel killing a Palestinian and it is shown for a week on the news more then you see talk about Syria.. its very sad, and the people see that and think Israel is some apartheid country created for the sole purpose of killing palestinian

[Anglojew]

Yes.. You see Israel killing a Palestinian and it is shown for a week on the news more then you see talk about Syria.. its very sad, and the people see that and think Israel is some apartheid country created for the sole purpose of killing palestinian

Yes, Palestinians face more discrimination in countries like Lebanon (where they are banned from owning land, being citizens and 20 professions etc) than do Arab-Israelis.

The situation calls for Pan-Israelism; http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?125117-Pan-Israelism-Israelites-of-the-World-Unite

[Yehiel]

Yes, Palestinians face more discrimination in countries like Lebanon (where they are banned from owning land, being citizens and 20 professions etc) than do Arab-Israelis.

The situation calls for Pan-Israelism; http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?125117-Pan-Israelism-Israelites-of-the-World-Unite

dont worry achi, we will unite one day with coming of Mashiach, this is all prophecy..

[Manifest Destiny]

Not necessarily. But I think that some anti-Semites are hiding behind a facade of anti-Zionism.

I agree with this. But I also think that some Zionists paint valid criticism of Israel as "anti-Semitism" in an attempt to silence and/or demonize their political opponents.

[alb0zfinest]

The guy with the sun glasses and blue jacket seemed to be quite reasonable. Do many people share his opinion or is he only one of the few with that mentality?

[alb0zfinest]

Not unless the same standards aren't applied elsewhere (eg to Israel's neighbours). Not unless Israel isn't singled out whilst others are ignored.

Lets just say hypothetically that Israels neighbors were doing nothing wrong, this way Israels neighbors aren't criticized, but Israel is still criticized because its doing something bad, is it antisemitism then?

[Yehiel]

The guy with the sun glasses and blue jacket seemed to be quite reasonable. Do many people share his opinion or is he only one of the few with that mentality?

no he is a leftist

[Nehellenia]

No, because every ethnicity and country get criticized, what makes Israel any different?
Also the fact that Israel is not the only 'Semitic' country, is a bit of a farce... because i think if they didn't try to claim they're the 'only Semites', maybe people would loose interest in further bigotry. And other reasons..

[Anglojew]

Lets just say hypothetically that Israels neighbors were doing nothing wrong, this way Israels neighbors aren't criticized, but Israel is still criticized because its doing something bad, is it antisemitism then?

Not automatically but it would depend on the motivations of the critic I guess.

I have noticed that many people who criticise Israel about Palestinians simply are not interested about the plight of Palestinians elsewhere eg in Lebanon. Therefore it seems logical that they're not really interested in Palestinians as much as using them as an issue to attack Israel with.


I've noticed that many people who criticise the plight of Palestinian refugees (without even getting into who's fault this was) ignore both the plight of Jewish refugees from Muslim countries (who lost vastly more land and wealth than Palestinians did) AND EVEN MORE aren't interested in Palestinian refugees from Kuwait etc either. Therefore logically they're not really being honest brokers.

I've noticed that people who criticise Israel's human rights issues tend to underplay or ignore completely the far worse human rights abuses elsewhere in the region.

[Anglojew]

No, because every ethnicity and country get criticized, what makes Israel any different?
Also the fact that Israel is not the only 'Semitic' country, is a bit of a farce... because i think if they didn't try to claim they're the 'only Semites', maybe people would loose interest in further bigotry. And other reasons..

This is a misguided argument as the word was coined specifically about Jews. It's not a literally word


Although Wilhelm Marr is generally credited with coining the word "anti-Semitism" (see below), Alex Bein writes that the word was first used in 1860 by the Austrian Jewish scholar Moritz Steinschneider in the phrase "anti-Semitic prejudices".[14] Steinschneider used this phrase to characterize Ernest Renan's ideas about how "Semitic races" were inferior to "Aryan races." These pseudo-scientific theories concerning race, civilization, and "progress" had become quite widespread in Europe in the second half of the 19th century, especially as Prussian nationalistic historian Heinrich von Treitschke did much to promote this form of racism. He coined the phrase "the Jews are our misfortune" which would later be widely used by Nazis.[15] In Treitschke's writings "Semitic" was synonymous with "Jewish", in contrast to its use by Renan and others.

In 1873 German journalist Wilhelm Marr published a pamphlet, "The Victory of the Jewish Spirit over the Germanic Spirit. Observed from a non-religious perspective." (Der Sieg des Judenthums über das Germanenthum. Vom nicht confessionellen Standpunkt aus betrachtet.)[16] in which he used the word Semitismus interchangeably with the word Judentum to denote both "Jewry" (the Jews as a collective) and "jewishness" (the quality of being Jewish, or the Jewish spirit). Although he did not use the word "Antisemitismus" in the pamphlet, the coining of the word followed naturally from the word Semitismus and indicated either opposition to the Jews as a people, or else opposition to Jewishness or the Jewish spirit, which he saw as infiltrating German culture. In his next pamphlet, "The Way to Victory of the Germanic Spirit over the Jewish Spirit", published in 1880, Marr developed his ideas further and coined the related German word Antisemitismus, "antisemitism", derived from the word "Semitismus" that he had earlier used.

The pamphlet became very popular, and in the same year he founded the League of Antisemites (Antisemiten-Liga), the first German organization committed specifically to combatting the alleged threat to Germany and German culture posed by the Jews and their influence, and advocating their forced removal from the country.

So far as can be ascertained, the word was first widely printed in 1881, when Marr published Zwanglose Antisemitische Hefte, and Wilhelm Scherer used the term Antisemiten in the January issue of Neue Freie Presse. The related word "semitism" was coined around 1885.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism

It's a little like arguing if I was to say someone was "anti-Negr"o then I should also include Papuans, Sri Lankans and any other "black" people besides Africans under that classification because Negro means "black" in Spanish. The word specifically means "anti-Jewish" but I personally use "Judeophobic" because I'm sick of even having this argument with lefties and Muslim apologists who say "how can Arabs be anti-Semitic, we're Semite's too."

[Isleño]

My opinion: I think not, there are a significant amount of religious Jews that criticize Israel (me included) and im not antisemitic. I see this is a claim often used by xians who are obsessed with Israel. When i read debates on a page, the xians always say this (there are not many Jews on the page but this is also common among secular zionist Jews).

Enough of what i think, here is what Israelis think..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44-VeDq-lVU
No, it's not. Only to race hustlers.