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View Full Version : china as superpower or the yellow threat



Mortimer
05-27-2014, 12:24 AM
i think it is a media hype just like that iraq builds atom bombs to justify american&allies own arming up and spending trillions into military and bullying other countries and controlling the asian, middle eastern etc. resources and populations. it is a media hype that they are a danger and such. i think china isnt a danger, just because they have a bit more to eat then 50 years ago and more people have cars etc. they are just a local/regional power, they could never attack europe or usa and dont have plans to rule the world. also often they are used as reference for racism and such, just like in the new book which was advertised on here, but i listened to what chinese said about jews (zhaoyun posted it) and they sounded pretty much like liberals who said that we are all humans etc. i think chinese arent dangerous or racist. it is a media hype. i talked to a indian online and he said that india will be a superpower is a media hype and that india is a shithole, i think thats similar to china or iran, they are little babies compared to usa, the usa just makes them look big and bad to justify its own world regime and supremacy.


what do you think?

Yehiel
05-27-2014, 12:28 AM
i cant see china play world police like america does

zhaoyun
05-27-2014, 12:30 AM
I think China will definitely be a superpower in the next two decades, that much is not hype, they are translating their growth into hard power and doing it very strategically. Of course because they are coming from a low base, their per capita wealth is still low compared to the West, but that is increasingly quickly as well and given its sheer size and nationalistic policies, China is probably the fastest rising great power in modern history.

China is NOT India. India will grow in importance too, but it doesn't have the focus, social modernization or mobilization capabilities that China has.

However, you're right that China isn't planning to start a world war with the West. It'd much rather trade and expand its influence, than go to war, which would be disastrous for its economic growth.

Mortimer
05-27-2014, 12:35 AM
I think China will definitely be a superpower in the next two decades, that much is not hype, they are translating their growth into hard power and doing it very strategically. Of course because they are coming from a low base, their per capita wealth is still low compared to the West, but that is increasingly quickly as well and given its sheer size and nationalistic policies, China is probably the fastest rising great power in modern history.

China is NOT India. India will grow in importance too, but it doesn't have the focus, social modernization or mobilization capabilities that China has.

However, you're right that China isn't planning to start a world war with the West. It'd much rather trade and expand its influence, than go to war, which would be disastrous for its economic growth.

i dont believe it until i see it, many chinese are still very poor etc. and china couldnt even succesfully take some islands from japan, they would never be a danger to usa/nato. but i think they are a regional power and made remarkable economic growth

Armand_Duval
05-27-2014, 12:42 AM
^^^^ If China were a superpòwer the most stupid thing to do it would be to start a world war vs west, there would be no winner...:picard2:

As I told you before I remain skeptical about china becoming a superpower, there are more than 1200 million of Chinese ppl living in poverty, that enormous quantity of people linving in deprvation is a social time bomb.

This lead us to state the next question : Would Chine be able to get more than half of those people to at least the middle class status?.... This should be a whole feat worth to be seen. I personally dont think that is going to happen.

Alessio
05-27-2014, 12:48 AM
They're a ''danger'' for the poorer people of their own communities though :p + the Tibetans.


i think it is a media hype just like that iraq builds atom bombs to justify american&allies own arming up and spending trillions into military and bullying other countries and controlling the asian, middle eastern etc. resources and populations. it is a media hype that they are a danger and such. i think china isnt a danger, just because they have a bit more to eat then 50 years ago and more people have cars etc. they are just a local/regional power, they could never attack europe or usa and dont have plans to rule the world. also often they are used as reference for racism and such, just like in the new book which was advertised on here, but i listened to what chinese said about jews (zhaoyun posted it) and they sounded pretty much like liberals who said that we are all humans etc. i think chinese arent dangerous or racist. it is a media hype. i talked to a indian online and he said that india will be a superpower is a media hype and that india is a shithole, i think thats similar to china or iran, they are little babies compared to usa, the usa just makes them look big and bad to justify its own world regime and supremacy.


what do you think?

albosomething
05-27-2014, 12:48 AM
Im tired of these economical experts

bigger gdp doesn't mean better/bigger, nor does per capita.. Also bigger gdp, doesn't mean bigger/better army .. damn I fucking hate internet economic experts .

Like the other day my friend started a discussion that african countries are the ones who are developing the fastest, because their gdp is increasing 100414214% and their per capita 194219% .

Alessio
05-27-2014, 12:50 AM
These poorer people are those used as slaves in the industry to make their country a country with a booming economy! And if they want they make them canonfood. (literally translated from Dutch)


^^^^ If China were a superpòwer the most stupid thing to do it would be to start a world war vs west, there would be no winner...:picard2:

As I told you before I remain skeptical about china becoming a superpower, there are more than 1200 million of Chinese ppl living in poverty, that enormous quantity of people linving in deprvation is a social time bomb.

This lead us to state the next question : Would Chine be able to get more than half of those people to at least the middle class status?.... This should be a whole feat worth to be seen. I personally dont think that is going to happen.

Alessio
05-27-2014, 12:51 AM
They're simply frauds..


Im tired of these economical experts bigger gdp doesn't mean better/bigger, nor does per capita.. Also bigger gdp, doesn't mean bigger/better army .. damn I fucking hat
e internet economic experts .

Like the other day my friend started a discussion that african countries are the ones who are developing the fastest, because their gdp is increasing 100414214% and their per capita 194219% .

zhaoyun
05-27-2014, 12:51 AM
^^^^ If China were a superpòwer the most stupid thing to do it would be to start a world war vs west, there would be no winner...:picard2:

As I told you before I remain skeptical about china becoming a superpower, there are more than 1200 million of Chinese ppl living in poverty, that enormous quantity of people linving in deprvation is a social time bomb.

This lead us to state the next question : Would Chine be able to get more than half of those people to at least the middle class status?.... This should be a whole feat worth to be seen. I personally dont think that is going to happen.

Well, the difference between China and other developing nations is that

1. The poor are of the same cultural group as the ruling class. In other developing nations there is a huge cultural/racial gap between the poor and the rich. This is not the case in China, the poor have the same cultural values. China's poor have higher standard IQ's than the average in most wealthy Western countries, just think about that.

2. All the Han Chinese societies that have experienced the combination of political stability and capitalist market economies became developed nations within 50 years. China is currently about 30 years into its reforms. Many of its coastal provinces are already reaching the levels of developed nations with large middle classes.

3. One of the major challenges in bringing forth a large middle class lies in urbanization, where the Chinese government already has detailed plans to significantly urbanize the rest of the country.

4. China and India are two very different countries. Any visitor to both countries can tell you that.

Mortimer
05-27-2014, 12:52 AM
i dont say that chinese are dumb or negative things about them etc. dont get me wrong, i just say their might is blown out of proportions by the media, you read things like "usa china showdown" etc. as if it is between equals, while it isnt in america but in asia and americans want to dictate what asians do in asia etc and they have the power to do so, while chinese could never attack usa over a dispute with mexico etc.

zhaoyun
05-27-2014, 12:53 AM
i dont believe it until i see it, many chinese are still very poor etc. and china couldnt even succesfully take some islands from japan, they would never be a danger to usa/nato. but i think they are a regional power and made remarkable economic growth

You're entitled to your opinion. My opinion is based on a detailed knowledge of the region/culture/country/economics and personal experience. Of course China is still quite poor compared to the West, but it's also a huge and vast country, that's what you don't seem to understand. Also, if you think China and India are the same, then you really don't know China at all.

zhaoyun
05-27-2014, 12:54 AM
i dont say that chinese are dumb or negative things about them etc. dont get me wrong, i just say their might is blown out of proportions by the media, you read things like "usa china showdown" etc. as if it is between equals, while it isnt in america but in asia and americans want to dictate what asians do in asia etc and they have the power to do so, while chinese could never attack usa over a dispute with mexico etc.

Undoubtedly the USA will continue to be the reigning superpower in the near future, however the rise of China is not a fairytale. It's real and it is translating into real hard power.

Mortimer
05-27-2014, 12:57 AM
You're entitled to your opinion. My opinion is based on a detailed knowledge of the region/culture/country/economics and personal experience. Of course China is still quite poor compared to the West, but it's also a huge and vast country, that's what you don't seem to understand. Also, if you think China and India are the same, then you really don't know China at all.

i didnt said that china and india are the same, i draw a comparison just like i draw the comparison with iraq, i didnt said iraq and china is the same also.

zhaoyun
05-27-2014, 12:58 AM
These poorer people are those used as slaves in the industry to make their country a country with a booming economy! And if they want they make them canonfood. (literally translated from Dutch)

They said the same about cheap labor in Japan in the 50s, in South Korea/Taiwan in the 60s to 70s, and now China. What happened in those other East Asian countries? They used these high labor, cheap input industries to move up the value chain and went from making plastic crap to making semiconductors, electronics and automobiles.

The same thing is happening in China right now. It's at the development level of South Korea in the late 80s, early 90s.

Mortimer
05-27-2014, 01:00 AM
Undoubtedly the USA will continue to be the reigning superpower in the near future, however the rise of China is not a fairytale. It's real and it is translating into real hard power.

we could see but i wouldnt be alive at that time anymore probably, i sincerly doubt that china will be at any time a power outside its own borders and region

Alessio
05-27-2014, 01:02 AM
Sure I know, but I think it's sad for those people who're sleeping in these factories and don't have a life except working...working....working....die
Their circumstances are bothering either, but if they think this is the way to go then go!


They said the same about cheap labor in Japan in the 50s, in South Korea/Taiwan in the 60s to 70s, and now China. What happened in those other East Asian countries? They used these high labor, cheap input industries to move up the value chain and went from making plastic crap to making semiconductors, electronics and automobiles.

The same thing is happening in China right now. It's at the development level of South Korea in the late 80s, early 90s.

Mortimer
05-27-2014, 01:03 AM
They said the same about cheap labor in Japan in the 50s, in South Korea/Taiwan in the 60s to 70s, and now China. What happened in those other East Asian countries? They used these high labor, cheap input industries to move up the value chain and went from making plastic crap to making semiconductors, electronics and automobiles.

The same thing is happening in China right now. It's at the development level of South Korea in the late 80s, early 90s.

china made remarkable economic growth, and should, because why should chinese be poor etc. i hope they do well, i dont think they are a superpower, maybe one day they will but they arent and they arent a threat

zhaoyun
05-27-2014, 01:03 AM
we could see but i wouldnt be alive at that time anymore probably, i sincerly doubt that china will be at any time a power outside its own borders and region

Then you obviously need to leave your own borders, because China's influence is already significantly altering the landscapes of all the countries around it, near and far. Even in Africa, China's influence is massive. What you're describing is already here, quite honestly.

Alessio
05-27-2014, 01:04 AM
No they have the quality/quantity to do so, only they've to work on their spirituality and morals, because on these things they lack most.


we could see but i wouldnt be alive at that time anymore probably, i sincerly doubt that china will be at any time a power outside its own borders and region

Mortimer
05-27-2014, 01:07 AM
Then you obviously need to leave your own borders, because China's influence is already significantly altering the landscapes of all the countries around it, near and far. Even in Africa, China's influence is massive. What you're describing is already here, quite honestly.

ok. i didnt wanted to hurt your nationalistic sentiments, etc.

zhaoyun
05-27-2014, 01:08 AM
Sure I know, but I think it's sad for those people who're sleeping in these factories and don't have a life except working...working....working....die
Their circumstances are bothering either, but if they think this is the way to go then go!

True, life is difficult. But honestly, what are you going to do if you have a huge pool of labor that have limited skills? Of course you have to focus on labor intensive industries in order to build the initial stages of industrialization, and then you gain the resources and economic growth to provide opportunities to improve your workforce and move up the developmental ladder.

What China is going through right now has been repeated in every East Asian country, it is going through the exact same development model and on a per capita basis, at nearly the same exact development timeline.

Also, greatness is only achieved through great sacrifice. That's well understood in Chinese culture.

zhaoyun
05-27-2014, 01:09 AM
ok. i didnt wanted to hurt your nationalistic sentiments, etc.

You're not hurting my sentiments. I'm just stating the facts. I'm very well aware of the national conditions of China, the history of East Asian development, the challenges and realities on the ground. I'm telling you the truth.

Mortimer
05-27-2014, 01:11 AM
You're not hurting my sentiments. I'm just stating the facts. I'm very well aware of the national conditions of China, the history of East Asian development, the challenges and realities on the ground. I'm telling you the truth.

you know certainly much more then me

zhaoyun
05-27-2014, 01:13 AM
you know certainly much more then me

Honestly, in this subject, my knowledge is far greater than nearly anyone here.

arcticwolf
05-27-2014, 01:14 AM
Zhaoyun, how do we know you are not a secret agent, a NordSinid 007? :laugh:

zhaoyun
05-27-2014, 01:17 AM
Zhaoyun, how do we know you are not a secret agent, a NordSinid 007? :laugh:

Because I wouldnt be wasting my time in this place. My statements are all based on facts.

Honestly, I've been following China's development for the past 20 years both based on experiences on the ground there, and also from my own study of statistics and trends, and nearly everything has been going as I've predicted. Though obviously there are many huge challenges as well such as political stability, corruption, the real estate bubble, and I can get into that, but that's going to take a lot of time to write about.

arcticwolf
05-27-2014, 01:20 AM
Because I wouldnt be wasting my time in this place. My statements are all based on facts.

Now I know you are an agent, cause you have no sense of humor bro! A dead give away! LOL

zhaoyun
05-27-2014, 01:46 AM
Let's look at some key timelines.

1978 - China started reforms, so the timeline is 36 years after the beginning of reforms.
China's current GDP per capita (for all 1.3 Billion people): Projected 2014 Per Capita ~$10,500
Current urbanization rate: 55%

1962 - When Park Chung Hee took command is when South Korea's development centralizes
1993 - 31 years after the beginning of rapid development
South Korea GDP Per capita (1993): $10,176
Urbanization rate then was much higher than China's current level: High 70% I don't have this figure

So essentially, China has been mirroring the experiences of other East Asian countries on a per capita basis.

KidMulat
05-28-2014, 06:29 AM
Then you obviously need to leave your own borders, because China's influence is already significantly altering the landscapes of all the countries around it, near and far. Even in Africa, China's influence is massive. What you're describing is already here, quite honestly.

China has really done much to create a 2nd Scramble of Africa; they have brought about a revolution of sorts facilitating the construction of needed infrastructure to make Nigeria, Congo, and Angola among others become the export economies they most certainly have the capacity to be.

Though if its anything like what happened in Papua New Guinea and from what I gather might possibly come down to in Angola anti-Chinese sentiments among the shut out labour class majority it might come to the point of rioting.

China's power is truly in the labour its people can provide but with no outlets to steer its newly urbanized working class I could see a major decline in the nations wealth and potential. At the same time though China is making strides in doing what Japan in Congo couldn't/wouldn't which is create satellite communities intermarrying into local populations (the Japanese simply killed as many mixed race children as possible)

That being said a Western influenced middle class and rising international student population returning home could spark the flame of another cultural revolution that could take place in the near future but I don't know how much resistance the government would at this point put out against it; in the end we will just have to see.

Anglojew
05-28-2014, 06:40 AM
Superpower.

Will have great cultural influence this century but is being surprisingly "Westernised"

China will resemble South Korea and Japan much more in culture in coming decades.

Rudel
05-28-2014, 06:46 AM
I don't believe for a second that China will have an interventionist long-range foreign policy like it is customary in France/Britain/America. It doesn't need to, and it's quite the opposite of their traditions.
Things will keep moving around the Pacific and Africa, but that's probably the full extent of it. Chinese airbases in America or Europe ? Unlikely.

RussiaPrussia
06-07-2014, 11:17 PM
i cant see china play world police like america does

who says we need world police in the first place? There are many regional powers who can play the role

Kalimtari
06-08-2014, 10:09 AM
I think China will definitely be a superpower in the next two decades, that much is not hype, they are translating their growth into hard power and doing it very strategically. Of course because they are coming from a low base, their per capita wealth is still low compared to the West, but that is increasingly quickly as well and given its sheer size and nationalistic policies, China is probably the fastest rising great power in modern history.

China is NOT India. India will grow in importance too, but it doesn't have the focus, social modernization or mobilization capabilities that China has.

However, you're right that China isn't planning to start a world war with the West. It'd much rather trade and expand its influence, than go to war, which would be disastrous for its economic growth.


Well, the difference between China and other developing nations is that

1. The poor are of the same cultural group as the ruling class. In other developing nations there is a huge cultural/racial gap between the poor and the rich. This is not the case in China, the poor have the same cultural values. China's poor have higher standard IQ's than the average in most wealthy Western countries, just think about that.

2. All the Han Chinese societies that have experienced the combination of political stability and capitalist market economies became developed nations within 50 years. China is currently about 30 years into its reforms. Many of its coastal provinces are already reaching the levels of developed nations with large middle classes.

3. One of the major challenges in bringing forth a large middle class lies in urbanization, where the Chinese government already has detailed plans to significantly urbanize the rest of the country.

4. China and India are two very different countries. Any visitor to both countries can tell you that.

totally agree



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imhUmLtlZpw

Wolf
06-08-2014, 10:58 AM
If China is able to transform its political system without great difficulties, I'm sure that they can handle this.