Pakistan woman stoned to death by family for marrying man she loved

[Loki]

Pakistan woman stoned to death by family for marrying man she loved (http://news.yahoo.com/pakistan-woman-stoned-death-family-marrying-man-she-101415740.html)

LAHORE Pakistan (Reuters) - A 25-year-old woman was stoned to death by her family outside one of Pakistan's top courts on Tuesday in a so-called "honor" killing for marrying the man she loved, police said.

Farzana Iqbal was waiting for the High Court in the eastern city of Lahore to open when a group of around dozen men began attacking her with bricks, said Umer Cheema, a senior police officer.

Her father, two brothers and former fiance were among the attackers, he said. Iqbal suffered severe head injuries and was pronounced dead in hospital, police said.

All the suspects except her father escaped. He admitted killing his daughter, Cheema said, and explained it was a matter of honor. Many Pakistani families think a woman marrying her own choice of man brings dishonor on the family.

Iqbal had been engaged to her cousin but married another man, Cheema said. Her family registered a kidnapping case against him but Iqbal had come to court to argue that she had married of her own free will, he said.

Around 1,000 Pakistani women are killed every year by their families in honor killings, according to Pakistani rights group the Aurat Foundation.

The true figure is probably many times higher since the Aurat Foundation only compiles figures from newspaper reports. The government does not compile national statistics.

Campaigners say few cases come to court, and those that do can take years to be heard. No one tracks how many cases are successfully prosecuted.

Even those that do result in a conviction may end with the killers walking free. Pakistani law allows a victim's family to forgive their killer.

But in honor killings, most of the time the women's killers are her family, said Wasim Wagha of the Aurat Foundation. The law allows them to nominate someone to do the murder, then forgive him.

"This is a huge flaw in the law," he said. "We are really struggling on this issue."

[Mortimer]

barbaric

[Caismeachd]

They need the other type of stoner over there. These repressed monkeys need to chill out.

[ProN00b]

That's what you get when you live in traditional family value moral society. ;)

[zhaoyun]

No matter what the cultural background is, I could never understand the mindset of these male relatives, the father, brothers, who could do this to their own daughter or sister.

[ProN00b]

No matter what the cultural background is, I could never understand the mindset of these male relatives, the father, brothers, who could do this to their own daughter or sister.

Traditions and cultural values are oppression, that's why I'm liberal. Cultural background never helped anyone, it's not what feed people, except in case of nationalistic politicians which are using concept of 'ethnicity' to manipulate people and take profit.

[Dandelion]

Pakistan is on my shit list of countries.

[rhiannon]

Typical animalistic male behavior spent in their neverfuckingending effort to ensure not one single fucking woman in their society experiences even a goddamned modicum of happiness.

Despicable fucks.

[Dictator]

Typical animalistic male behavior spent in their neverfuckingending effort to ensure not one single fucking woman in their society experiences even a goddamned modicum of happiness.

Despicable fucks.

I like when you get mad. =p dunno why

[ButlerKing]

Yes. That is why I don't like muslims.

[Dandelion]

I like when you get mad. =p dunno why

More women (or just people; males also) should be like her in the face of injustice. World would be a better place.

Sadly, Pakistan is still a world leader in acid-throwings and other misogyny (stoning in this case). Very sad affair. Injustice is all around the world, but in some countries it's also linked to their culture/society more so than in others.

[Anglojew]

Glad we imported millions of pakis to the west and let them retain their culture!

[Dandelion]

Glad we imported millions of pakis to the west and let them retain their culture!

Britain's greatest asset.

[Tooting Carmen]

Even by Islamic standards, Pakistan has got to be among the most cruel, repressive and misogynistic countries of all.

[Äijä]

Traditions and cultural values are oppression, that's why I'm liberal. Cultural background never helped anyone, it's not what feed people, except in case of nationalistic politicians which are using concept of 'ethnicity' to manipulate people and take profit.

Where do you base your cultural relativism? Any proof that all ethnocultural groups cause opression?

[Armando Esteban Quito]

No wonder S. Asian males are a bunch of desperate delusional horny fucks. Killing their own women for the most innocent/minor things and thus fighting each other during a shortage of women.

[arcticwolf]

The utter stupidity and cruelty of this act is mind boggling. Barberic primitives. Father, brother killed their own flesh and blood because she followed her heart.

You fucking dumb shit progressives still think all cultures are equal, you dumb fucks? :laugh:

[ProN00b]

Where do you base your cultural relativism? Any proof that all ethnocultural groups cause opression?

Basically, I don't know if all ethnocultural groups cause oppression, but I know for sure that today none of us are obligated to let it's own life being controlled by religion and fuckin traditional codes or any other ideology. Individual comes before group, because without individuals there will be no group. Liberty is undeniable most precious value.

[Xanthias]

to be a girl in pakistan = death sentence for sure. I don't even know what kind of liberty they can have with such incredible treatments.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Basically, I don't know if all ethnocultural groups cause oppression, but I know for sure that today none of us are obligated to let it's own life being controlled by religion and fuckin traditional codes or any other ideology. Individual comes before group, because without individuals there will be no group. Liberty is undeniable most precious value.

Do you consider the consanguineous marriage, whose offspring result to genetic malfunctions very often, and which is banned by the Christian church up to first cousin, as a limitation to your liberty?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consanguineous_marriage


The children of first-cousin marriages have an increased risk of genetic disorders, though the incremental risk enhancement is relatively small, according to many researchers.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consanguineous_marriage#cite_note-kershaw-1)[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consanguineous_marriage#cite_note-plos-3) Supporters of cousin marriage in the West view legal bans as discrimination (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination),[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consanguineous_marriage#cite_note-finalthoughts-6)[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consanguineous_marriage#cite_note-okbyscience-7) while opponents may appeal to morality or other arguments.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consanguineous_marriage#cite_note-slate-8)

What about initiatives like the one of the Orthodox church of Cyprus which does not conduct a marriage if both spouses do not undertake genetic tests for Mediterranean anaemia first?

http://books.google.gr/books?id=lConiWXuPMgC&pg=PA178&lpg=PA178&dq=cyprus+church+anaemia&source=bl&ots=fqS8tQyONa&sig=xB653TVXjso644O3lScn82PTQJQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SkaFU4_aN-GN0AWYwYH4Bg&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=cyprus%20church%20anaemia&f=false

Religion can have a positive aspect, if the religious leaders keep up with the times...

[Borna]

This is why we need a wall on anything eastern then Bulgaria, massive, the most massive wall built along Mediterranean Sea (equipped with cannons, lasers, with war cruisers paroling around, torpedoing those invader boats), so those barbarians don't ever reach Europe.

[rhiannon]

to be a girl in pakistan = death sentence for sure. I don't even know what kind of liberty they can have with such incredible treatments.
None.

[ProN00b]

Do you consider the consanguineous marriage, whose offspring result to genetic malfunctions very often, and which is banned by the Christian church up to first cousin, as a limitation to your liberty?

You see, some cultures worship incest as it's most value, there's a lot of that around, basically you can't stop some people from doing it, although it's illegal. I'm not saying consanguineous marriage is something beautiful, if by doing something you make someone suffer then it's not freedom but oppression, that mentally retarded person is actually victim of consanguineous marriage. He or she is human being deprived of freedom, because it has no any choices in life anymore.

[Petros Houhoulis]

You see, some cultures worship incest as it's most value, there's a lot of that around, basically you can't stop some people from doing it, although it's illegal. I'm not saying consanguineous marriage is something beautiful, if by doing something you make someone suffer then it's not freedom but oppression, that mentally retarded person is actually victim of consanguineous marriage. He or she is human being deprived of freedom, because it has no any choices in life anymore.

...Some cultures...

[ProN00b]

...Some cultures...

What do you have against some cultures? I see you're orthodox christian. Don't you know that we're all descendants of Adam and Eve according to your religion, so whole humanity is product of incest and now you're talking something about that?

[Äijä]

What do you have against some cultures? I see you're orthodox christian. Don't you know that we're all descendants of Adam and Eve according to your religion, so whole humanity is product of incest and now you're talking something about that?

You where against all cultures. :D

Actually liberalism is a Western product but you dont admit any differences between cultures.

[Queen B]

Islam. The religion of peace and love.
Those "people" dare to preach about morality.
:bullet puke

[glass]

When Uganda passed anti-gay law, EU immediatly imposed sanctions, why no responce to this?
Because stoning women is cultural diversity but anti-gay law is crime against humanity?

[ProN00b]

You where against all cultures. :D

Actually liberalism is a Western product but you dont admit any differences between cultures.

I have nothing against traditions if it's on individual basis and if it's yours choice, but please don't force me to go to church and say who I'll gonna marry. That's why I'm for secular and free societies.

I'm from Balkans, do you consider it's part of west in cultural sense?

[Loki]

No matter what the cultural background is, I could never understand the mindset of these male relatives, the father, brothers, who could do this to their own daughter or sister.

Only Muslims. Islam fucks with your mind.

[Bamse]

What's interesting is why there are not mass demonstrations and uproar after such a horrible event. But it does not happen, there must be a cartoon of the prophet, for such things to happen. Then you will see them take to the streets by the thousands burning flags and squeeling like chimps for infidel blood.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmizyHFabqQ

[Äijä]

I have nothing against traditions if it's on individual basis and if it's yours choice, but please don't force me to go to church and say who I'll gonna marry. That's why I'm for secular and free societies.

I'm from Balkans, do you consider it's part of west in cultural sense?

No I dont consider it Western.
It is war zone of tribes and clans so I understand you might want something different. But the pure cultural relativism is dying out in the West also, look at the elections.

[Loki]

What's interesting is why there are not mass demonstrations and uproar after such a horrible event. But it does not happen, there must be a cartoon of the prophet, for such things to happen. Then you will see them take to the streets by the thousands burning flags and squeeling like chimps for infidel blood.


Well said!

Also, there's a deafening silence of moderate Muslims. Why are they not protesting against this? But more importantly, why is the West not imposing sanctions on countries like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia for their human rights record?

Islam is an affront to every normal human being. The religion should be banned and eradicated, worldwide.

[StonyArabia]

It does not have much to do with Islam but rather culture. What a lot of people in South Asia often mix their cultural codes into Islam. I believe this tell us more about society than Islam to be honest most Pakistanti practice more islam that's mixed with their folk tradition which is different from the way it's practiced in different areas.

[Loki]

It does not have much to do with Islam but rather culture. What a lot of people in South Asia often mix their cultural codes into Islam. I believe this tell us more about society than Islam to be honest most Pakistanti practice more islam that's mixed with their folk tradition which is different from the way it's practiced in different areas.

They take their cue from the example that Mohammed set. He was not the most tolerant person in the world.

[StonyArabia]

They take their cue from the example that Mohammed set. He was not the most tolerant person in the world.

A actually he was very tolerant, and I believe they take their cues from their own culture rather than the teachings of Islam.

[wvwvw]

Why Attack Only Islam?
Posted by Ali Sina


Ali,
I think you have a somewhat polarised views. I am sure that you know there is no single “correct” Islam. The Islam my neighbour believes in is a different one from the Muslim down the road from us both, and again different from the model you have in your mind. Now your model may be closer to how Muhammad envisioned it, but religions evolve so what many Muslims believe is most likely nothing like that at all.

Yes my views are polarized. Anything else would be folly. How can one compare Buddhism or Hinduisum any religion with a demonic creed like Islam? We must not lump all beliefs together and pass one verdict on all of them. Communism, Nazism, and democracy are all different polities. Are all the same? Can we lump them together as political systems and pass one judgment on all of them? All religions are not alike. You can argue that all of them are false. Even that is not true. There are elements in all faiths that are absolute truth. The Golden Rule that is at the core of all religions, except Islam, is an absolute truth.

Religions have something good, something bad and something ugly. In my opinion they are superfluous. Man can find the good on his own. We don’t need any religion to tell us raping and looting and murdering are bad. Even if a religion like Islam says they are good and encourages its followers to commit these crimes to those who do not submit, we still know they are bad.

However, some people want to have faith in something. As long as their faith is not a threat to me, I have no problem with it. We humans are different and have different needs. I am perfectly comfortable not to believe in anything and not to invoke an imaginary god when in trouble.

In fact I feel much better knowing the solution of my problems is in my own hands and not in the hands of an unpredictable phantasm. If I can do something about them I will do them otherwise I resign and move on. For some people this is a dreadful scenario.

There is only one Islam and that is the Islam of Muhammad. It is detailed in the Quran and his biography. Muslims have different takes on their faith. Some practice it more than others. But there is only one Islam.

Any object or subject can be perceived differently by different people. It depends on the observers’ perspective. The fact that several people describe the same thing differently does not mean they are looking at different things.

The argument that Islam is not one because Muslims interpret it differently is a fallacy. It is not rational. I am sure different people have different opinions about you and will describe you differently. Does this mean they are describing different people?

I am attacking the Islam of Muhammad – the only real Islam. I don’t know your neighbors and I am not interested in how they interpret their religion. Faith is personal. I am not attacking their faith. I am attacking a religion that is violent and evil. If their Islam is not like that they don’t have to fear me.

Now this is really a no brainer. Yet, I hear it all the time. So let me give you one example that any child can understand. Let us say there is a dog in the neighborhood with rabies that is running around biting everyone.

I grab my gun and go after him. Someone stops me and says my dog is docile and friendly. That bad dog is not my dog. I say, fine, then there is no reason to worry. I love friendly dogs. Now let go of my collar so I can deal with this dangerous animal. Then this person starts attacking me and says I must not harm his dog. Doesn’t that prove that his “friendly dog” and that vicious dog are one and the same?

Muslims constantly tell us the Islam they practice is not violent. Great! I am not against any peaceful religion. But when they attack me and try to stop me when I criticize the violent Islam, it is clear they are lying. Their religion is violent and they know it.

Other religions may evolve, but Islam cannot because it is prohibited to change it in any way. Any innovation (bid’a) is regarded as kufr. For Islam to “evolve” you have to throw away 70% of the Quran. The other 30% is just asininity. How can you do that when it clearly says you can’t pick and choose?


When I see your text about Islam it seethes with vileness, but when I see you talk about Jesus it is all peace and love. You obviously ignore the inquisition, the crusades, and what is happening in Africa today where the popular acceptance of the supernatural via belief in Jesus is the cause of children being burned with acid or starved to death, accused of being witches.

Jesus, if the stories about him are true, was not a vile man. His teachings are good. Why should I defile a good man? I don’t believe in the divinity of Jesus. I see him as a man. But that does not mean I am going to throw all fairness away and vilify a good man.
The Inquisition or any bad thing Christians did or do has nothing to do with Jesus. He did not instigate those things.

He said he who lives by the sword will perish by it.
He said forgive people’s sins so yours can be forgiven.
He said remove the beam in your own eyes before finding the speck in the eyes of your neighbor.
He said throw the stone if you have not sinned.
He said you were told not to commit adultery, I tell you not to think about it for he who thinks about sin commits it in his heart.

I could make a modern psychological argument based on quantum physics to show this teaching is not just allegorical. It is very real. But I don’t want to digress. You can find no justification for the crimes perpetrated by the Christians in the teachings of Jesus.

The Inquisition and the Crusades were influences of Islam on the Catholic Church. The Church started to copycat Jihad and Mihnah because of their successes. Cultures influence each other. Even today, the secular and liberal western culture is influenced by the repressive Islamic culture.

We punish people who speak the truth against Islam. This insanity is not because of secularism. It is the blasphemy law seeping in our secular laws. If Geert wilders is prosecuted, or if Andrew Ryan in UK goes to jail because he burned the Quran, we can’t blame secularism for it. Western secularism is becoming Islamized. The same happened to the Church. It became Islamized.

What Christians do in Africa is also not the fault of Jesus. These practices are animism not Christianity. They are practiced by the Christians in the name of Jesus, but they are not the teachings of Jesus. They are remnants of animism lingering in the psyche of the Africans.


Remember, it was Christianity that invented the most disgusting lie ever told by man. The threat of eternal burning in hell, one of the key tools Muhammad exploited. It is also the promise of Jesus to return that enables countless people around the world to con people into joining cults, where children and women are sexually exploited and others financially.

The belief in hell and heaven is an ancient belief. No one knows who invented this lie.

However, as someone in the commets below has pointed out, this beleif was not promulgated by Jesus. Jesus did not threated people with hellfire. It was Paul, the zealot apostle who was so fond of hell. He interjected his own understanding into his fewfound faith.

It is also true that countless people have been coned and continue to be coned by charlatans like Muhammad et al who exploit the belief in returning messiahs. However, this belief is also ancient. When people are oppressed and victimized they invent messiahs. It gives them hope.

Today, our lives are relatively safer. We don’t experience so much injustice as our ancestors did. Therefore, messiahs are superfluous. We can liberate ourselves and don’t need to wait for messiahs.


I understand you disliking Islam, I dislike it too. I’m not keen on what appears to be an emotional hatred of it, but that’s entirely up to you. When you seethe hatred for Muhammad and Islam and then talk (erroneously in my opinion) about Jesus being all sweetness and light it just doesn’t come across well at all, which is why I suspected you were a Christian.

It is intellectually dishonest to equate Jesus with Muhammad. Did Jesus raid people? Did he massacre, rape, and rob anyone? Did he instigate murder or encourage assassination? Did he have sex with children? Did he sleep with women after massacring their tribe and torturing to death their husband?

You have thrown out your belief in God. Congratulations. But have you also thrown out your sense of fairness? In what ways Jesus can be compared to Muhammad? Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that the stories about Jesus are true. I am not talking about his alleged miracles. I am talking about his teachings and the examples that he set. Analyze him as a man. Are there any two people more diametrically opposed to each other than Muhammad and Jesus?

I can’t be a Christian because I can’t believe in a god that intervenes in human affairs. In fact if such a god existed, considering that the foundation of this world is based on injustice, he must be a cynical and cruel god, unworthy of worship. I am a vegan because I can’t bear the thought of taking the life of a lovely animal just so I can eat. And yes I love animals more than I love some humans.

There is no wickedness in animals. And yet this God has designed the world in such a way that the sustenance of many species should depend on destroying the lives of other creatures. His cynicism and cruelty is so despicable that he endows these creatures that are to be food to others with feelings so when a calf is devoured by a predator her mother suffer and grieve.

Of course the wretched prey has to suffer excruciating pain too. How disgusting! How a creator with such a low ethics can be worthy of praise?

I am not talking about God. I am talking about Jesus as a man. Find me something evil in Jesus’ teachings or his life if you can and I will denounce that thing. We can’t throw away honesty and fairness just because we reject God.

Muhammad was quite different. There is no crime that he did not commit. His teachings are all evil. There is nothing good that he said or did.

When Christians do evil, it is because they deviate from what Jesus taught. When Muslims do good deeds, it is because they disobey their prophet. When they follow him they become evil. A good Christian becomes Mother Theresa. A Good Hindu becomes Gandhi. A good Buddhist becomes Dalai Lama. A good Muslim becomes Khomeini.

The reason I don’t promote atheism is because I don’t see atheism making people better. I see atheists are just as fanatical as religionists and often lack fairness. To them atheism is another religion. They hate and disparage other faiths.

Many atheists maligned Palin and supported the criminal Obama because she believes in God whereas he is only a fraud. This reminds me of the hypocrisy of Pharisees who preferred a crook like Barabbas to Jesus. It is amazing how fanaticism can blind people.

To me, atheism is a philosophy. I am an atheist because I can’t convince myself that there is a god or any intelligent being running this world. I know I could have done a better job if I had the same powers that are attributed to God. Yes there is intelligence in the universe that is reflected in all beings including atoms. But there is no intelligent being running the universe.

The main difference between me and other atheists is that for me beliefs are secondary. Deeds count, not beliefs. Beliefs change. They can change with the same ease of changing a shirt. I do that all the time. Every day, I learn a new thing and adjust my belief slightly. In the course of years my beliefs are changed radically. I call it evolution of belief.

What I look in people is their humanity. I look at their sense of justice, fairness, compassion, kindness, and empathy. Intellectualism challenges my mind, but what make me cry are simple acts of kindness. I want to promote goodness. I could not care less about beliefs.

[Petros Houhoulis]

What do you have against some cultures? I see you're orthodox christian. Don't you know that we're all descendants of Adam and Eve according to your religion, so whole humanity is product of incest and now you're talking something about that?

I am an Atheist, and we are descendants of monkeys, not Adam and Eve.

Just because I defended certain actions of the Cypriot Orthodox church doesn't make me a Christian, only a reasonable person...

[ProN00b]

No I dont consider it Western.
It is war zone of tribes and clans so I understand you might want something different. But the pure cultural relativism is dying out in the West also, look at the elections.

I never understood and it grinds my gears, if hybrid nations like Germany, USA, Spain, Russia and many others can functionally exist, why Yugoslavia had to break-up? I don't get what we gained with war? It's not question what we gained, but how much we lost and yet there's some people that praise war and nationalism. I dare to go so far and say Yugoslavia was heavily homogenous and mono-cultural, if we neglect religious differences, anyway most people were atheists back then. Technically, Serbian or Bosnian nationalist for example which hates Croats is actually putting religion before ethnicity and he's against his own ethnic group. If we're gonna compare ethnic relations with relationships between individuals, then Serbs and Croats are twin brothers (including Bosniaks).

[zhaoyun]

Only Muslims. Islam fucks with your mind.

Though perhaps not to this extent, but I've seen similar chains of thought regarding the command of women in rural South Asia and some other traditional societies. Also, not all Muslim societies are like this, but these backwoods of Pakistan and other areas of the Muslim world are some seriously dark, backward places where logic and reason are drowned out by the screams of social conformity, religious judgement and the greed of their traditional dowry system.

But honestly, I really cannot even begin to get into the psychology of a father or brother who is willing to kill their daughter/sister, a woman they should be protecting, over her decision to make her own life decision.

[Leliana]

That's horrendous and still daily routine in these part of the world. :(

Sometimes I think the entire Muslim world needs a stoning. A big stoning. A stoning by an asteroid impact around Mecca.

[robertsmith]

Basically they are 100 years behind Europe

[Aviator]

That's horrendous and still daily routine in these part of the world. :(

Sometimes I think the entire Muslim world needs a stoning. A big stoning. A stoning by an asteroid impact around Mecca.

Hey! Don't say that!

We still need to move the Muslims in Europe back to Mecca before the asteroid strikes! Let's not be too preemptive here.

[The Lawspeaker]

They are despicable barbarians. Did we really expect any better from them ?

[Incal]

The solution for Pakistan? Napalm. Lots of it.

[silver_surfer]

Islam does not justify such an act. Marriage without the subjects consent is not legal in Islam. For those who are going to use this as yet another attempt to stab Islam and Muslims in the back, know this, Honor killing is not exclusive to Pakistan, or India or Bangladesh or Muslim countries, such cases can be found everywhere, including the advanced, civilized West. There are countless cases where the subjects are not Muslim or originally from South East Asia or Central Asia. Islam just happens to be the main religion in countries that have a low degree of freedom, education and so on. There are still a lot of clerics both Sunni and Shia that deviate from original Islam and therefore influence people who don't have the necessary knowledge to understand what is right and what is wrong. the key to improve the situation is the separation between state and religion, Turkey is somewhat a role model in this sense.

[Armando Esteban Quito]

edit

[The Lawspeaker]

Honor killing is not exclusive to Pakistan, or India or Bangladesh or Muslim countries, such cases can be found everywhere, including the advanced, civilized West.

Yap. That's true. 100 percent of all cases involve Muslim immigrants.