It's OK to insult the Cornish because they don't exist

[Beorn]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/12/22/article-1237763-07AF10B1000005DC-344_468x353.jpg



Being called a straw-sucking, inbred wurzel because of where you come from should give you fair cause for complaint.
But not if you're Cornish it seems. For, according to quango chiefs, the Cornish don't exist as a people and so can't be discriminated against.
The Equality and Human Rights Commission made the ruling following a written complaint about repeated media mockery of the county.

The Kernow branch of the Celtic League cited 'racist' articles in the Times, the Guardian and the Spectator as well as pieces on BBC radio and the website of Imperial College London.
The league's Rhisiart Tal-e-bot said: 'People increasingly throw insults at the Cornish - so if they don't exist how can that happen?


'People are upset about it. We feel this is just the tip of the iceberg. Something needs to be done but nothing can be done because we are not seen as a national minority.'
Graeme Hicks, a Cornwall County Councillor, said he had found 15,400 separate entries on the internet about inbreeding in the county.
'If you said something like this about Pakistanis or travellers you would be taken to court,' he added.
Wild West, a BBC sitcom starring Dawn French and Catherine Tate, also drew anger.

One viewer complained: 'I felt ashamed that the BBC could blatantly depict the Cornish as inbred fools, thieves with limited exposure and brain power.'
A campaigner claims to have heard the Cornish described on TV as 'a bunch of p****d-off, straw-sucking, inbred wurzels'.
The Celtic League wrote to the EHRC last month, saying: 'A number of individuals have contacted our branch to complain about various comments and articles that have been written in newspapers, magazines and aired on the radio referring to the Cornish as inbred and being generally derogatory and or insulting.

'This refers to comments made by individuals, as well as from sources on the internet, but a surprising number also come from supposedly well respected sources. We would therefore like your help and support in asking you for a comment in response to this letter that we can use in future, condemning racist and prejudiced comments toward the Cornish.'
But Qaiser Razzak of the EHRC wrote back: 'Case law has not established the Cornish as a "racial group", for the purposes of the Race Relations Act, so currently, it is not clear whether any claim of racial discrimination against Cornish people would be successful.'




Source (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1246970/Cornwall-Its-OK-insult-Cornish-dont-exist-rules-watchdog.html)

I wish the sheep shagging, inbred pasty eaters well in their plight.

[Murphy]

Well.. I wouldn't say they're an ethnic minority, otherwise, so are scouse, or Geordies, or Glaswegians!

Doesn't mean you can just go around insulting them though. But I baisically just see this as a bunch of inbred pasty-niggers trying to jump on the "Hate Crimes" bandwagon.

Regards,
Papist.

[The Ripper]

By this logic racism is impossible because according to the official doctrine races don't exist? :confused:

[Randwulf]

I hate the cornish.Why don't they just except that they are all english.
I have family living in cornwall,and they don't like them,either

[Beorn]

I hate the cornish.Why don't they just except that they are all english.
I have family living in cornwall,and they don't like them,either

:D You've contradicted yourself there.

The Cornish are English, yet the family you have in Cornwall are English and are noted for not liking the Cornish?

So there exists a distinct culture which defines and separates the English from the Cornish? Therefore the Cornish exist.

[Treffie]

What's the difference? People of Norfolk are seen to have 2 heads and a brain the size of a peanut, we all take the piss out of each other. I can't see the problem :confused:

[Randwulf]

:D You've contradicted yourself there.

The Cornish are English, yet the family you have in Cornwall are English and are noted for not liking the Cornish?

So there exists a distinct culture which defines and separates the English from the Cornish? Therefore the Cornish exist.

It's the fact that the cornish think they are differant from the rest of us that i don't like.Why don't they just accept that they are english,and be done with it.
Anybody else in england (like some from mercia),who think they are special and separate from england,are doing our english independance cause no good at all.

[Beorn]

It's the fact that the cornish think they are differant from the rest of us that i don't like.Why don't they just accept that they are english,and be done with it.

I think it is acceptable for the Cornish to assert their right to ethnic identity, afterall we English are at this very moment attempting the same thing with what amounts to equal results, but as to how far they wish to take the whole devolution/independence/free from the dreaded Sassanachs thing is what the debate really should centre around.


Anybody else in england (like some from mercia),who think they are special and separate from england,are doing our english independance cause no good at all.

Yes, I very much agree with you on that point. Although with that said, once England has regained some form of independence I would love to see a devolution of central power in Westminster and replaced by regionalised local governing. Whether I'd consider it better to adhere more to the old Anglo-Saxon regional kingdoms or present counties I haven't personally decided yet.

[Murphy]

What's the difference? People of Norfolk are seen to have 2 heads and a brain the size of a peanut, we all take the piss out of each other. I can't see the problem :confused:

The sheep-shagging Welsh bastard is right on this one :thumb001:!


It's the fact that the cornish think they are differant from the rest of us that i don't like.Why don't they just accept that they are english,and be done with it.
Anybody else in england (like some from mercia),who think they are special and separate from england,are doing our english independance cause no good at all.

Are you English or are you Anglo-Saxon?

Regards,
The Papist.

[MarcvSS]

Since it is okay to do that here...

Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insul t...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...I nsult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult ...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...In sult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult. ..Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Ins ult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult.. .Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insu lt...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult... Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insul t...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...I nsult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult ...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...In sult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult. ..Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Ins ult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult.. .Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insu lt...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult... Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insul t...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...I nsult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult ...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...In sult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult. ..Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Ins ult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult.. .Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insu lt...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult... Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insul t...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...I nsult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult ...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...Insult...In sult...Insult...

Btw what are Cornish?:p

[Osweo]

It's the fact that the cornish think they are differant from the rest of us that i don't like.Why don't they just accept that they are english,and be done with it.
But, my dear fellow countryman, the Cornish ARE differEnt from us English!

From your choice of name, it appears that you are aware of the necessary role of the Anglo-Saxons in founding this England we live in, the most important ancestors of us Englishmen.
Are you not aware then, that Anglo-Saxon settlement of Cornwall was utterly insignificant? That the Cornish only became majority English-speaking in relatively recent times? That the very name of their homeland in English means 'The FOREIGNERS (to the English) of Kernow'? Yes, my lad, the -wall in Cornwall is identical with that in WALES.

Anybody else in england (like some from mercia),who think they are special and separate from england,are doing our english independance cause no good at all.
Actually, this sort of annoyance could do wonders for stirring the English themselves out of their ethnic slumber. If we get a sudden shock from realising that ancient ethnic struggles are still relevant today, perhaps we'll get a bit more proactive about our own interests. :thumb001:

Btw what are Cornish?:p
In short...
A kind of Welsh, who were geographically unlucky having no mountains to hide in, and who forgot their language. Their 'country' has been treated as an English 'county' for a long time, so many are understandably confused about their claims to nationhood.

I suppose you could compare them to Frisians in those areas of the Netherlands where Frisian is no longer spoken...?

Here they are:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/a/a3/20070417223208!Cornwall_outline_map_with_UK.png

[MarcvSS]

I suppose you could compare them to Frisians in those areas of the Netherlands where Frisian is no longer spoken...?That would be 90% of the Netherlands I guess...

Get your point, thanks for the explain...

[Albion]

The Cornish aren't different, they were assimilated by the English throughout the middle ages, the "Cornish" you see today mostly have English ancetry and are just trying to be different.
Basically they took a dead language, mixed it with half of another language (Breton) and said that was Cornish! It is similar but its still a conlang (constructed language), just to go with their constructed identity!

Most people in East Cornwall are English, the English only settled Cornwall slowly. The last real Cornish were assimilated in the 18th century when the Cornish language died out and the last "Cornish" intermarried with the English incomers.

Today Cornwall's idetity is constructed, since none of them are truley Celtic and Cornish because they've intermarried with the English for about 800 years ago, finnaly subsuming them in the 18th century.
Their language is constructed, their culture is a hodgepodge of relics of Cornish culture and elements they've nicked from Wales and Scotland (i.e. Cornish Kilts).

There's no Cornish, only wannabes.

The same process is happening in Devon, with the English Devonians suddenly "rediscovering" their Celtic heritage (i.e. constructing and stealing it).:mad:

They should accept who the really are.

[Sadie]

Cornish 'identity'? It's simply ridiculous.

[Osweo]

The Cornish aren't different, they were assimilated by the English throughout the middle ages,
But they remembered who they were. THat's all that counts. Your comment here as much applies to the mass of Irish.

the "Cornish" you see today mostly have English ancetry and are just trying to be different.
You would have to demonstrate that to have any credibility. I suspect that hardly any Cornishman exists now without an English great great grandparent at least, but this is hardly the majority of heritage. I bet the average level of 'foreign' in them is less than a quarter. How many English have the odd Celtic Fringe grandparent? Millions. And they're still English.

Basically they took a dead language, mixed it with half of another language (Breton) and said that was Cornish! It is similar but its still a conlang (constructed language), just to go with their constructed identity!
Real criticism can be made of the reconstruction and its nature, but doesn't the very desire to do this sort of thing indicate that we're not dealing with ordinary Englishmen?

Most people in East Cornwall are English,
Scratch 'most' and say 'many'. I'm in Devon now, and there IS a different feel as soon as you cross the Tamar, in cultural terms. Launceston is different from Holsworthy, Bude from Bideford.

the English only settled Cornwall slowly. The last real Cornish were assimilated in the 18th century when the Cornish language died out and the last "Cornish" intermarried with the English incomers.
I need proof of this intermarriage. And are ninety percent of Irishmen not 'real Irish' in your book, having lost the language?

Today Cornwall's idetity is constructed, since none of them are truley Celtic and Cornish because they've intermarried with the English for about 800 years ago,
Repetition now.
Let's look at real instances of immigration, prior to the current 'second home' phenomenon. I think you'll find that more Cornish left than English came in. Cornish miners' skills were exported to Durham, for one. When was there ever a demand for English settlers? There WERE some villages of pure Saxon type and foundation from VERY long ago, in the northeast especially, but a case could even be made for the settlers' 'Cornishising'.

finnaly subsuming them in the 18th century.
Their language is constructed, their culture is a hodgepodge of relics of Cornish culture and elements they've nicked from Wales and Scotland (i.e. Cornish Kilts).
The 'Plastic Paddie' style crap deserves our scorn, but there is more to Cornishness than this. Tell me - How do you express your Englishness, beyond St George stickers on your car bumper? It's not so easy to put these things into words, sometimes, but the Cornishness and Englishness is still very much THERE.

There's no Cornish, only wannabes.
You seem unduly bitter. What is it to you, really? I never understood why some nationalists are so anxious to keep people in the nation who refuse to identify with it in the first place. Hardly makes for sturdy resilient nations!

The same process is happening in Devon, with the English Devonians suddenly "rediscovering" their Celtic heritage (i.e. constructing and stealing it).:mad:
Utter bollocks it is, you're quite right, but it's a marginal phenomenon, barely existing beyond the internet.

Cornish 'identity'? It's simply ridiculous.
Again, what is it to you, my dear?! :D Why are non-Cornish so anxious to coerce the Cornish into an Englishness that they don't want to be part of?

It should be said, that the more vocal Cornish are hardly representative of all their countrymen, and some sort of middle ground is possible to be reached. But over-excited attacks like we see sometimes are just going to polarise things.

[Albion]

But they remembered who they were. THat's all that counts. Your comment here as much applies to the mass of Irish.

Well I'm not sure about that, they could have simply revived an identity which hasn't existed for over 100 years simply by reading a book and thinking "hmmm... We used to be a seperate Cornish people? Lets revive them!".

Like anyone could do that with the Byzantines and claim themselves as such.

But your right, they probably did remember who they were.


You would have to demonstrate that to have any credibility. I suspect that hardly any Cornishman exists now without an English great great grandparent at least, but this is hardly the majority of heritage. I bet the average level of 'foreign' in them is less than a quarter. How many English have the odd Celtic Fringe grandparent? Millions. And they're still English.

Again your right, the same applies for me, English with a few Celts back a bit. The question is more did they preserve their culture. For example Chinese emigrating to America and adopting American culture would be said to have lost theirs.
"Did the Cornish continue their culture or adopt the English one and how can we tell? " is the question that needs to be asked I guess.


Real criticism can be made of the reconstruction and its nature, but doesn't the very desire to do this sort of thing indicate that we're not dealing with ordinary Englishmen?

Nah, you could say that about the Australians, they were just English and Irish and then next minute a culture appeared, meaning that even the English themselves can form into new cultures.


Scratch 'most' and say 'many'. I'm in Devon now, and there IS a different feel as soon as you cross the Tamar, in cultural terms. Launceston is different from Holsworthy, Bude from Bideford.
Well maybe that does indicate a different culture then, either that or just a different variation of the English culture.


I need proof of this intermarriage. And are ninety percent of Irishmen not 'real Irish' in your book, having lost the language?

Yeah, proof would be hard to get, but its common knowledge. The Irish didn't lose the rest of their culture so I'd say they're still Irish.


Repetition now.
Let's look at real instances of immigration, prior to the current 'second home' phenomenon. I think you'll find that more Cornish left than English came in. Cornish miners' skills were exported to Durham, for one. When was there ever a demand for English settlers? There WERE some villages of pure Saxon type and foundation from VERY long ago, in the northeast especially, but a case could even be made for the settlers' 'Cornishising'.

A few English settled there before the 19th century as farmers mainly and it became more Anglicized.

The 'Plastic Paddie' style crap deserves our scorn, but there is more to Cornishness than this. Tell me - How do you express your Englishness, beyond St George stickers on your car bumper? It's not so easy to put these things into words, sometimes, but the Cornishness and Englishness is still very much THERE.

Yeah, alright, you've got a good point. But those car flags are tacky and a disgrace, whosever flag is on the sticker!


You seem unduly bitter. What is it to you, really? I never understood why some nationalists are so anxious to keep people in the nation who refuse to identify with it in the first place. Hardly makes for sturdy resilient nations!

Lol. Yeah well I'm not too keen on the idea of a big chunk of England with 50% of the population being English breaking off from England. Maybe we shouldn't be there in the first place I guess, but thats just how I feel at the moment.
I also don't want to see more celts with the usual "victim complex" they all seem to harbour against the English, that would be more celts hating on the English (even though we're part Celtic ourselves!).

Utter bollocks it is, you're quite right, but it's a marginal phenomenon, barely existing beyond the internet.

Again, what is it to you, my dear?! :D Why are non-Cornish so anxious to coerce the Cornish into an Englishness that they don't want to be part of?

It should be said, that the more vocal Cornish are hardly representative of all their countrymen, and some sort of middle ground is possible to be reached. But over-excited attacks like we see sometimes are just going to polarise things.

[Albion]

Crap! Posted that by mistake, I hadn't finished replying to the last bit. Oh well, just ignore the piece you already wrote at the bottom Osweo.

[Beorn]

Today Cornwall's idetity is constructed, since none of them are truley Celtic and Cornish because they've intermarried with the English for about 800 years ago

It goes both ways. The English have been "interbreeding" with the Celtic fringe for a longer time than they have with the Cornish.


there IS a different feel as soon as you cross the Tamar, in cultural terms. Launceston is different from Holsworthy, Bude from Bideford.

I used to fall asleep on the journeys from the South-East to the West of England. As a general rule, I used to wake up at around 5 miles each side of entering the West Country proper.

With all that said (and I can go into great depths how much the East and West of England differ culturally), I still remark to whomever will listen the "change" that one feels crossing the English-Cornish border.

It is a remarkable feeling.