Yugoslavia Discussion [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

Monolith

01-27-2010, 10:05 AM

In your dreams...Serbo-Croatian exists, simply because of millions of exYugoslavs which use them on everyday base!!!
As I see it, the language Bosniaks use is the only real successor of the Serbo-Croat, Croato-Serbian, Croatian or Serbian, and Serbian or Croatian. ;) Officially, it is used mainly in foreign linguistic nomenclature, as a remnant of Yugoslav policy.

And btw that is the name of my native language and no politics or politician stupid ideology could take it away from me, and all generations who use it.
Well, it's your right to call your language whatever you like. For all I care, you can rename Montenegrin into Serbo-Croat. However, it's not my language and it's not the language of my people.

Amarantine

01-27-2010, 10:11 AM

As I see it, the language Bosniaks use is the only real successor of the Serbo-Croat, Croato-Serbian, Croatian or Serbian, and Serbian or Croatian. ;) Officially, it is used mainly in foreign linguistic nomenclature, as a remnant of Yugoslav policy.

Well, it's your right to call your language whatever you like. For all I care, you can rename Montenegrin into Serbo-Croat. However, it's not my language and it's not the language of my people.

The "boshnjachki and d crnogorski" are false and pure nonsence linguistic idea, which main reasons for their existing is political reasons.

But, yes we could speak about Croatian and Serbian language separatly, and hybrid form (which is my native) Serbo-Croatian language. Others are idiotaries...

Btw, Monolith, you don't belong to generations raised in SFRJ, so it is more then obvious that my native is not and can't be yourm but-to your population yes, there are thousand of Croats still speaking SerboCroatian, and they are among high ranked Diplomats (of course older even then me), proffesors, politicians...I have opportunity to met these wonderful people!

Monolith

01-27-2010, 10:16 AM

Btw, Monolith, you don't belong to generations raised in SFRJ, so it is more then obvious that my native is not and can't be yourm but-to your population yes, there are thousand of Croats still speaking SerboCroatian, and they are among high ranked Diplomats (of course older even then me), proffesors, politicians...I have opportunity to met these wonderful people!
I consider myself lucky because of that. Care to define Serbo-Croat?

Amarantine

01-27-2010, 10:26 AM

I consider myself lucky because of that. Care to define Serbo-Croat?

I feel sad...why you think like that?

SFRJ almost 25.000.000 of people, we had very nice life there, good schools, not bad Unis, travelled everywhere over planet, cinmetography, sport,basket was on of the best in Europe, waterpool;valleyball, football...It was my country. I am so sad I lost it. And very jealous why I didn't remember more, and didn't live longer...We had a state, not banana republic, but real state!

There is no Serbo Croat it was term for language and we were Jugosloveni...

Nationalitist

01-27-2010, 11:28 AM

I feel sad...why you think like that?

[COLOR=purple] SFRJ almost 25.000.000 of people

China has more than one billion three hundred millions inhabitants, so what?

we had very nice life there, good schools, not bad Unis, travelled everywhere over planet

So everyone got money from the state to travel wherever they liked? :D Is that what you are implying? If yes, you are as distantly detachted from any reality as Vojn is. Only those who had money could travel - and do many other things - those who had no money, couldn't afford that. As it is now as well. As it will always be.

Monolith

01-27-2010, 12:01 PM

I feel sad...why you think like that?

Because I am strongly opposed to any socio-economic system based on intensive social engineering, regardless of whether it is Yugoslavia's or EU's.

poiuytrewq0987

01-27-2010, 10:32 PM

So everyone got money from the state to travel wherever they liked? :D Is that what you are implying? If yes, you are as distantly detachted from any reality as Vojn is. Only those who had money could travel - and do many other things - those who had no money, couldn't afford that. As it is now as well. As it will always be.

Hardly. My dad who worked at a steel milling plant in Yugoslavia went to the USA, West Germany, Turkey, Greece, and Bulgaria. If you're an illiterate person who can barely pass first grade then yeah, don't expect to work or even travel anywhere. And my dad lived in the poorest Yugoslav republic, Macedonia compared to Slovenia which was the richest Yugoslav republic, if you couldn't find money to travel then the problem lies with you, not Yugoslavia.

Nationalitist

01-27-2010, 10:35 PM

Hardly. My dad who worked at a steel milling plant in Yugoslavia went to the USA, West Germany, Turkey, Greece, and Bulgaria. If you're an illiterate person who can barely pass first grade then yeah, don't expect to work or even travel anywhere. And my dad lived in the poorest Yugoslav republic, Macedonia compared to Slovenia which was the richest Yugoslav republic, if you couldn't find money to travel then the problem lies with you, not Yugoslavia.

The problem lies with your retarded brain and your gross generalizations and talking about things you know nothing about.

I don't know anything about your dad, circumstances in which he lived, so such argument amounts to nil.

poiuytrewq0987

01-27-2010, 10:37 PM

Because I am strongly opposed to any socio-economic system based on intensive social engineering, regardless of whether it is Yugoslavia's or EU's.

Because the 1943 Yugoslavia was communist does not mean the idea of Yugoslavia is inherently communist and that any future incarnations of Yugoslavia has to be communist.

poiuytrewq0987

01-27-2010, 10:39 PM

The problem lies with your retarded brain and your gross generalizations and talking about things you know nothing about.

I don't know anything about your dad, circumstances in which he lived, so such argument amounts to nil.

Oh please, you know you're wrong, you hate Yugoslavia out of narcissist nationalism not because Yugoslavia was terrible.

Nationalitist

01-27-2010, 10:44 PM

Oh please, you know you're wrong, you hate Yugoslavia out of narcissist nationalism not because Yugoslavia was terrible.

And you love Yugoslavia because you are some pan-Yugoslav narcisist "nationalist". The same argument could be applied to you, what's the point? I have different experiences. It's easy to start to idealize some former system on hearsay accounts.

Monolith

01-27-2010, 10:55 PM

Because the 1943 Yugoslavia was communist does not mean the idea of Yugoslavia is inherently communist and that any future incarnations of Yugoslavia has to be communist.
I doesn't matter whether it was more or less communist. What matters is that my people were killed and tortured under that regime, my language was under attack, and much of the hard earned money in my country was transferred to Serbia or Kosovo.

Future incarnations? The Constitution of Republic of Croatia explicitly forbids the participation of Croatia in any kind of 'Balkanic' federation. I think that speaks for itself.

poiuytrewq0987

01-27-2010, 11:20 PM

And you love Yugoslavia because you are some pan-Yugoslav narcisist "nationalist". The same argument could be applied to you, what's the point? I have different experiences. It's easy to start to idealize some former system on hearsay accounts.

www.dictionary.com (http://www.dictionary.com) and search for narcissism.

I doesn't matter whether it was more or less communist. What matters is that my people were killed and tortured under that regime, my language was under attack, and much of the hard earned money in my country was transferred to Serbia or Kosovo.

Future incarnations? The Constitution of Republic of Croatia explicitly forbids the participation of Croatia in any kind of 'Balkanic' federation. I think that speaks for itself.

Instead of helping the federation to become a better, stronger federation you just want to better yourself and that's the very definition of narcissism.

Oh my God, did you see how the New York state took $3.5 billion dollars from California's tax revenues and used that to develop NY infrastructure?! Secede!! :rolleyes2:

Monolith

01-27-2010, 11:54 PM

Instead of helping the federation to become a better, stronger federation you just want to better yourself and that's the very definition of narcissism.

Narcissism? Try with self-awareness. We had our national identity long before Yugoslavia was created. Yugoslav identity was an ahistorical forgery. Anyway, why should I let any foreigner to take what is my own?

Oh my God, did you see how the New York state took $3.5 billion dollars from California's tax revenues and used that to develop NY infrastructure?! Secede!! :rolleyes2:
Nice straw man.

poiuytrewq0987

01-27-2010, 11:58 PM

Narcissism? Try with self-awareness. We had our national identity long before Yugoslavia was created. Yugoslav identity was an ahistorical forgery. Anyway, why should I let any foreigner to take what is my own?

Self-awareness? Hah. Yugoslavia was created to unify South Slavs just like the UK was created to unify all Britons. Oh, and Germany is a result of Germanic peoples wanting to unify and create a single German state.

Nice straw man.It's true whether you like it or not.

Amarantine

01-28-2010, 06:56 AM

China has more than one billion three hundred millions inhabitants, so what?

It is not just "so what"-thnks to that fact, and extremly big territory, China is one of the powerful states in international politics and economy. China is one of the world power states which create international relations in her interests zones.

The same was with SFRJ, we had certain influence and we were the part of creation international relations even in those terrible times of "cold war". And to be honest, we were quite succesful! Btw, EEC invited SFRJ for full membership in EEC in 1987-88. I think that fact tell us more then anything here, which are mostly emotional attitudes (including mine).

So everyone got money from the state to travel wherever they liked? :D Is that what you are implying? If yes, you are as distantly detachted from any reality as Vojn is. Only those who had money could travel - and do many other things - those who had no money, couldn't afford that. As it is now as well. As it will always be.

Well, my family was quite educated so I don't have contra argument about money issue, but the fact is that our workers in our small factories had in the time of Ante Markovic salaries (average) about 3.000DM, and after Kosovo, Montengro was the poorest Republic in SFRJ. So-as Vojn said, workers in Slovenia had much bigger living standrads then in MNe.

Btw, I think we should stop with this debate, it very painful for me. I tried to give objective arguments, but emotions are obviously different.

The second thing is what Monolith said about
" strongly opposed to any socio-economic system based on intensive social engineering, regardless of whether it is Yugoslavia's or EU's." -I respect his oppinion, it was exactly like that, and we all know we had victims in all our population considering that, but still, if you looking wider on other countries in Europe, you would see the same...

Monolith

01-28-2010, 09:55 AM

Self-awareness? Hah. Yugoslavia was created to unify South Slavs just like the UK was created to unify all Britons.
Yes, self-awareness. Was it not for our self-awareness, I'm afraid I'd now have a Yugoslav flag and a Serbo-Croat language listed in my profile. It was created to unify all the South Slavs.. To what end? Yugoslav identity was created because of the state, not the other way around, and as such, it did not represent natural development of ethnic and inter-ethnic relations here, whereas people would start to identify with neighboring peoples more and more, and create a state out of mutual interest in the end.

Oh, and Germany is a result of Germanic peoples wanting to unify and create a single German state.
Last time I checked, Germans had a tradition of being a single nation (e.g. Holy Roman empire). This tradition is inexistent here.

It's true whether you like it or not.
Comparing America and Yugoslavia is an outright fallacy.

I'm getting tired of this. Feel free to address my points, or don't bother posting.

Nationalitist

01-28-2010, 03:19 PM

Disappearance of Yugoslavia was a divine surprise, the most beautiful thing that happened in south eastern Europe in 20ieth century. Let these idolaters and worshippers of superficiality, crass materialists possessed by the mentality of homo oeconomicus, like Amarantine and Vojn (and others), whine as much as they like. Yugo-nostalgia is in fact a form of Zeropeanism.

Jarl

01-28-2010, 05:05 PM

Nationalitist

01-28-2010, 05:27 PM

Of course it's not.

Nationalitist

01-28-2010, 09:59 PM

I have always thought is was an obstacle to the EU.

Anyway, where did you hear or read that? Or whence did you infer that?

Amarantine

01-29-2010, 06:28 AM

@Nationalist-I am homo economicus dear, it's one of my professions, beside, international politics:P

Jarl

01-29-2010, 07:32 PM

Anyway, where did you hear or read that? Or whence did you infer that?

It is obvious. Read some literature on the end and the disolution of Yugoslavia. I might recommend you some, but Im sure being a Slovenian you will find plenty at hand.

And btw. I am not overly pro-Serbian. But in comparison to what happened in the recent years, Yugoslavia was a stable and good solution. Pity there were forces who wanted to see its destruction. Unfortunately, Slovenia did not play a glorious role in those days.

Monolith

01-29-2010, 08:37 PM

But in comparison to what happened in the recent years, Yugoslavia was a stable and good solution.
Another one goes to my hate list! :D

I hope you are forced into a "federation" ruled by Russians. :whistle:

Jarl

01-29-2010, 08:47 PM

Another one goes to my hate list! :D

I hope you are forced into a "federation" ruled by Russians. :whistle:

Well. There was no Russo-Polish war after 1991, and no genocide. I know Yugoslavia had its faults, but the genocide was perhaps avoidable.

poiuytrewq0987

01-29-2010, 09:23 PM

It is obvious. Read some literature on the end and the disolution of Yugoslavia. I might recommend you some, but Im sure being a Slovenian you will find plenty at hand.

And btw. I am not overly pro-Serbian. But in comparison to what happened in the recent years, Yugoslavia was a stable and good solution. Pity there were forces who wanted to see its destruction. Unfortunately, Slovenia did not play a glorious role in those days.

I didn't just like Yugoslavia because it made the Balkans stable. I liked Yugoslavia because it brought Slavs together in the Balkans. It unified us, and it was destroyed by the ones who saw Yugoslavia as an obstacle; and the ones who were narcissists and wanted to be independent, small, and whores to the great powers.

Another one goes to my hate list! :D

I hope you are forced into a "federation" ruled by Russians. :whistle:

Get over yourself.

Monolith

01-29-2010, 09:26 PM

Well. There was no Russo-Polish war after 1991, and no genocide. I know Yugoslavia had its faults, but the genocide was perhaps avoidable.
This is not about genocide. If the ex country was worth something, it wouldn't have imploded in the first place. Here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12517)'s a thread that may be of some interest. You might want to address some points there.

Jarl

01-29-2010, 09:42 PM

This is not about genocide. If the ex country was worth something, it wouldn't have imploded in the first place. Here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12517)'s a thread that may be of some interest. You might want to address some points there.

Yes. It is an interesting expression.... "imploded". I do not think it just merely imploded. It was helped to implode.

Nationalitist

01-29-2010, 09:51 PM

It is obvious.

Yeah, a true expert speaking.

Read some literature on the end and the disolution of Yugoslavia. I might recommend you some, but Im sure being a Slovenian you will find plenty at hand.

You mean, some conspiracy theories? I bet you can recommend me plenty of it.

And btw. I am not overly pro-Serbian. But in comparison to what happened in the recent years, Yugoslavia was a stable and good solution. Pity there were forces who wanted to see its destruction.

Eternal glory to those "forces" (whichever they were)!

You are displaying the entire wealth of your Zeropeanist materialistic superficial ideology. History, traditions, religion, national struggles - this all means nothing to you, just some futile ideas of economic prosperity and "stability" (except when your Polackia is in question, of course).

Unfortunately, Slovenia did not play a glorious role in those days.

When did your shitty Polackia play any glorious or important role in history? Just alternating between Russkie ass-licking (1945-1989) and Yankee ass-licking (since 1989). So better shut up. And leave Slovenia alone.

Jarl

01-29-2010, 09:55 PM

Yeah, a true expert speaking.

Thank you :)

You mean, some conspiracy theories? I bet you can recommend me plenty of it.

No. Not really a consipracy theory. Just a simple story of why Slovenia chose to secede...

Eternal glory to those "forces" (whichever they were)!

Why would you say so?

You are displaying the entire wealth of your Zeropeanist materialistic superficial ideology. History, traditions, religion, national struggles - this all means nothing to you, just some futile ideas of economic prosperity and "stability" (except when your Polackia is in question, of course).

Wooow, steady on now...

When did your shitty Polackia play any glorious or important role in history? Just alternating between Russkie ass-licking (1945-1989) and Yankee ass-licking (since 1989). So better shut up. And leave Slovenia alone.

Umm... why this emotional outbreak, Nationalist? Have I struck a sensitive chord??? ;)

So better shut up. And leave Slovenia alone.

Look whats written in your profile, Nationalitist.

Nationalitist

01-29-2010, 10:06 PM

No. Not really a consipracy theory. Just a simple story of why Slovenia chose to secede...

A conspiracy theory on why Slovenia wanted to secede (according to the Polacko expert). OK, boils down to the same.

Why would you say so?

Because I am not particularly fond of that former country, that's it.

Umm... why this emotional outbreak, Nationalist? Have I struck a sensitive chord??? ;)

As if your discourse were not emotionalist, just from the opposite side.

Look whats written in your profile, Nationalitist

My profile is not an issue here, Polacko ueber-patriot proving your Polish patriotism by emigrating into the UK.

Monolith

01-29-2010, 10:38 PM

Yes. It is an interesting expression.... "imploded". I do not think it just merely imploded. It was helped to implode.
Like is the case with all major geopolitical events, there were different interest groups involved in the break up, namely England and France vs. Germany and her satellites, whereas the former strived to save Yugoslavia and the latter to do the opposite (presumably to exert their political and economic influence over a formerly Anglo-French-American dominion). However, bear in mind that there was a number of factors that led to dissolution of the ex state, with inter-ethnic conflict (it had a strong historical foundation) being the most significant one, while the economic factors only played a secondary role, and were mostly used as an a posteriori "justification" for Croatian withdrawal.

Nationalitist

01-29-2010, 11:37 PM

In 1991 we defeated partisan socialists and we were free from totalitarianism. At least for a moment. We should never forget that.

People like polacko and vojn talk about "foreign powers" because they don't understand that our fight for independence had its own Slovenian causes.

Jarl

01-30-2010, 10:12 AM

A conspiracy theory on why Slovenia wanted to secede (according to the Polacko expert). OK, boils down to the same.

Its you who is talking of conspiracies all the time. Its not a conspiracy.

Because I am not particularly fond of that former country, that's it.

Ive noticed.

As if your discourse were not emotionalist, just from the opposite side.

Was it? Nope... I did not use any emotive nor swear words. But you did. You did this yesterday, and you are doing it today... giving evidence to your low personal culture and some feral desire for vengence.

One suggestion about Slovenia, and you explode! "Shitty", "shut up", "Polackia", "Polacko".... Like a pissed off 5-yr old who didn't get a candy. Am I not correct? Calm down a bit. No need for becoming offensive. Don't worry. Papa Jarl is not gonna hurt you.

My profile is not an issue here, Polacko ueber-patriot proving your Polish patriotism by emigrating into the UK.

Patriotism is not about sitting in your room all your life. Well, perhaps certain Nationalitist's "patriotism" is...

Nationalitist

01-30-2010, 11:29 AM

Its you who is talking of conspiracies all the time. Its not a conspiracy.

There are plenty of conspiracy theories (moronic for the most part) about that topic, about these "forces", those "forces" involved in the break-up of that country. Internet is full of that. That topic (among many others) is a very fertile fount of inspiration for many bored internet addicts with an inclination for conspirationism. I am sure you have one or two of such theories on your mind, so spit it out, please, for the sake of amusement.:D

Was it? Nope... I did not use any emotive nor swear words. But you did. You did this yesterday, and you are doing it today... giving evidence to your low personal culture and some feral desire for vengence.

You do get always emotional when your Polackia is at issue. And here too you expressed your emtion of grief over the disaapearance of some country you think should have survived.

One suggestion about Slovenia, and you explode! "Shitty", "shut up", "Polackia", "Polacko"....

It is not your suggestion about Slovenia that made explode (if explosion that may be termed), but your trashy worldview. While being staunch Polacko patriot, you trash other nations' histories by glorifying defunct multinational, supranational, artificial entities built on some kind of Nazi-Communism (like Yugoslavia was). Not only that you are hypocritical, but you state that you openly endorse extremely modernist worldview, materialistic economicism, which is the yardstick by which you arrogate yourself the right to judge whether some states should perish or keep on existing. If "European preservation" is about such attitudes as you expound, then Europe indeed does deserve to perish. As I told you, you have superficial Zeropeanist views (except when it concerns Polackia) and that is the point you haven't yet addressed.

Like a pissed off 5-yr old who didn't get a candy. Am I not correct? Calm down a bit. No need for becoming offensive. Don't worry. Papa Jarl is not gonna hurt you.

Lol. Well, you like precisely like that, but the other way around, like a five-year old boy crying because somebody took his toy away from him (your crying over the breakup of Yugoslavia, for instance). Or rather, like some cocky rebellious (but ignorant) teenager with attitude speaking with utmost reassurance about some things he knows nothing about.

Patriotism is not about sitting in your room all your life. Well, perhaps certain Nationalitist's "patriotism" is...

Patriotism is about parasiting on another country, yes, indeed, that's the true form of patriotism, the Jarl-style patriotism.

Jarl

01-30-2010, 11:37 AM

There are plenty of conspiracy theories (moronic for the most part) about that topic, about these "forces", those "forces" involved in the break-up of that country. Internet is full of that. That topic (among many others) is a very fertile fount of inspiration for many bored internet addicts with an inclination for conspirationism. I am sure you have one or two of such theories on your mind, so spit it out, please, for the sake of amusement.:D

WoW? Are you sure??? Perhaps you should start "spitting out" what you have on your mind, my Slovenian borther... actually I am finding you very amusing right now.

You do get always emotional when your Polackia is at issue. And here too you expressed your emtion of grief over the disaapearance of some country you think should have survived.

No. I only get emotional when ppl accuse Poles of genocide that did not happen.

It is not your suggestion about Slovenia that made explode (if explosion that may be termed), but your trashy worldview.

...interesting... go on...

While being staunch Polacko patriot, you trash other nations' histories

Where and when? By writing about the Holocaust and arguing against Nazi deniers?

by glorifying defunct multinational, supranational, artificial entities built on some kind of Nazi-Communism (like Yugoslavia was).

...you're not really serious? I mean - DO you actually know what you are saying?

Not only that you are hypocritical, but you state that you openly endorse extremely modernist worldview, materialistic economicism, which is the yardstick by which you arrogate yourself the right to judge whether some states should perish or keep on existing. If "European preservation" is about such attitudes as you expound, then Europe indeed does deserve to perish. As I told you, you have superficial Zeropeanist views (except when it concerns Polackia) and that is the point you haven't yet addressed.

;) Im trying really hard, but can't make neither head nor tail out of your talk. What is Zeropeanist?

Lol. Well, you like precisely like that, but the other way around, like a five-year old boy crying because somebody took his toy away from him (your crying over the breakup of Yugoslavia, for instance). Or rather, like some cocky rebellious (but ignorant) teenager with attitude speaking with utmost reassurance about some things he knows nothing about.

I am not crying over the break up. You are unjustly projecting your own fears and beliefs onto my person. I will repeat what I said - calm down a bit. I am really getting an impression you are a bit unstable, Nationalitist.

Patriotism is about parasiting on another country, yes, indeed, that's the true form of patriotism, the Jarl-style patriotism.

What "parasiting"? Poland is paying into the EU business as well. And how is studying abroad contradictory to Polish patriotism? Most Polish patriots studied abroad since XVI century. As I said - you are a bit unstable. Why are you blabbering this nonsense?

You really think I find it insulting? I find it funny ;) Now, go on... give me more of your hilarious insecurity exhibition.

Nationalitist

01-30-2010, 11:56 AM

WoW? Are you sure??? Perhaps you should start "spitting out" what you have on your mind, my Slovenian borther... actually I am finding you very amusing right now.

What I have on my mind? I am not sure of what is that supposed to mean.

No. I only get emotional when ppl accuse Poles of genocide that did not happen.

OK, so you acknowledge that you too get emotional. Therefore it's hypocritical to "accuse" others of "emotionalism".

Where and when? By writing about the Holocaust and arguing against Nazi deniers?

Are you able to read? Do I have to repeat everything ten times?

Where and when? By glorifying the Nazi-Communist defunct country (you know which one).

...you're not really serious? I mean - DO you actually know what you are saying?

Totally clueless comment-question.

;) Im trying really hard, but can't make neither head nor tail out your talk. What is Zeropeanist?

Pro-globalist, anti-national, modernist, economicist, without any ideals etc.

I am not crying over the break up. You are unjustly projecting your own fears and beliefs onto my person. I will repeat what I said - calm down a bit. I am really getting an impression you are a bit unstable, Nationalitist.

I don't know if I am being unstable, but you are at any rate some conceited net-warrior.

I have no "fears". Your adored country of South Slavs is dead and buried. Except for few necrophiles crying over its corpse (though you claim you are not crying), nobody cares.

What "parasiting"? Poland is paying into the EU business as well. And how is studying abroad contradictory to Polish patriotism? Most Polish patriots studied abroad since XVI century. As I said - you are a bit unstable. Why are you blabbering this nonsense?

It is you who is blabbering nonsense by speaking with confidence about some event in recent history you know nothing about, but are just rehashing some Zeropeanist cliches.

You really think I find it insulting? I find it funny Now, go on... give me more of your hilarious insecurity exhibition.

I didn't find anything insulting in your posts, just idiocies worth of contempt.

So go on, you too, so "secure" Polacko guy.:D

Monolith

01-30-2010, 12:02 PM

I believe a part of this thread deserves to secede. ;)

Jarl

01-30-2010, 12:05 PM

OK, so you acknowledge that you too get emotional. Therefore it's hypocritical to "accuse" others of "emotionalism".

No. I did not attempt to insult you in any way. While you have been strongly trying to insult me since yesterday with your low-brow comments on "shitty Polackia" and personal comments. You don't be a hypocrite.

Are you able to read? Do I have to repeat everything ten times?

Yes. Coz what you write is nonsensical and hard to understand at times.

Where and when? By glorifying the Nazi-Communist defunct country (you know which one).

Where have I glorified Yugoslavia? Once again you are projecting some creations of your own imagination onto me. Ascribing wrong intentions.

Totally clueless comment-question.

No. This is a totally clueless blabber:

by glorifying defunct multinational, supranational, artificial entities built on some kind of Nazi-Communism (like Yugoslavia was).

Pro-globalist, anti-national, modernist, economicist, without any ideals etc.

Once again. You are over-using your imagination.

I don't know if I am being unstable, but you are at any rate some conceited net-warrior.

I have no "fears". Your adored country of South Slavs is dead and buried. Except for few necrophiles crying over its corpse, nobody cares.

It is you who is blabbering nonsense by speaking with confidence about some event in recent history you know nothing about, but are just rehashing some Zeropeanist cliches.

Actually... are you conducting a monologue with your own imagination?

It seems to me you make up elaborate theories on the basis of internet conversations, and then you start to believe in them as if they were real. Sober up :)

I didn't find anything insulting in your posts, just idiocies worth of contempt.

So go on, you too, so "secure" Polacko guy.:D

You are again trying to insult me... And again I am asking - why this explosion of anger and "contempt"? Where did these "shits", "shut ups" and "Polackias" come from? Are you really that insecure? Do you have some mental health issues? Perhaps you're spending too much time in here?

And you are calling me a net-warrior, right? ;)

Nationalitist

01-30-2010, 12:21 PM

Are you really that insecure? Do you have some mental health issues?

No, I have no mental health issues. And I don't pretend to be meddling into other nations' internal affairs and lecturing on their history of which I know very little or nothing. Which is somethinh you do.

Jarl

01-30-2010, 12:26 PM

No, I have no mental health issues. And I don't pretend to be meddling into other nations' internal affairs and lecturing on their history of which I know very little or nothing. Which is somethinh you do.

Like anyone, I am entitled to have my own opinion on the disolution of Yugoslavia and having my own opinion has nothing to do with, as you said: "meddling into other nations' internal affairs", another odd creation of your imagination.

Normally, if you disagree with something you discuss the issue. But you chose to have a monologue between yourself and your imagination, with those funny projections of a myriad of motives and intentions (like the purported yugoslavophilia) onto me. Your whole nonsensical talk of multi-nationalism, zeuropeanism, nazi-communism etc.

In this context, I find your personal ventures with "shitty Polackias", "Polish liars", "Polish patriotism" and "shut ups", your sudden anti-Polish postings in other threads a caricatural, bizzare exhibition of your own insecurity. If expressing an opinion that dares to differ from your own always brings about such an outburst of insults and anger, then indeed you need help.

Nationalitist

01-30-2010, 12:29 PM

Like anyone, I am entitled to have my own opinion on the disolution of Yugoslavia and having my own opinion has nothing to do with, as you said: "meddling into other nations' internal affairs" - another odd creation of your imagination.

In this context, I find your personal ventures with "shitty Polackias", "Polish liars", "Polish patriotism" and "shut ups" a bizzare exhibition of your own insecurity. If expressing an opinion that dares to differ from your own, always brings about such an outburst of insults and anger, then indeed you need help.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion. So am I.

For example, my opinion is that Hitler-Stalin pact was a good thing, that the world would be better off without the dirty Polackia on its map and that not too many, but too few Polacks were killed by Germans and the Soviets in the second world war.

Jarl

01-30-2010, 12:37 PM

You do not see it, do you? You do not see the difference between expressing your opinion and intentional, obsessive insulting? Yesterday I expressed my opinion on Yugoslavia with no emotive/insultive content. I used no ad personams and I did not refer to you in person. In response, you've been trying to insult me and my nation since yesterday in several posts. You have been posting these low comments to satisfy your desire of personal revenge...

Of course you are entitled to your opinion. So am I.

For example, my opinion is that Hitler-Stalin pact was a good thing, that the world would be better off without the dirty Polackia on its map and that not too many, but too few Polacks were killed by Germans and the Soviets in the second world war.

And now again you talk nonsense. You understand that you are really not insulting me in any way by these comments??? You are only making a highly insecure, angry, frustrated person out of yourself.

Nationalitist

01-30-2010, 12:46 PM

And now again you talk nonsense. You understand that you are really not insulting me in any way by these comments??? You are only making a highly insecure, angry, frustrated person out of yourself.

Obviously, you are too stupid to understand what a sarcasm means. What I said in the previous post is clearly not what I believe. I stated it as an example of an opinion. Everyone can have some opinion, he can utter some totally idiotic thing and pretend that it is his opinion and invoke his "sacred right" on having an opinion in his defense, when others start to call his opinion for what it is - that is idiotic. My "opinion" expressed in the last post is worthless garbage, as is yours on the breakup of Yugoslavia few posts earlier. Not every opinion is worth of respect. Some are based on certain facts, normalcy, sane judgment, on appropriate knowledge on the topic you are expressing your opinion on. Other kinds of opinions are nonsensical, based on ignorance and cliches. Your "opinion" belongs to the latter category.

Radojica

01-30-2010, 12:51 PM

Slavs...

Radojica

01-30-2010, 01:04 PM

Well Jarl, some people like more to be stable boys then masters in own house...i guess...Yugo (Southern) Slavia (Slavs) was worst than EU which is 10 times worst mess and that is ok probably :lol:

Jarl

01-30-2010, 01:05 PM

What I said in the previous post is clearly not what I believe.

Don't flatter yourself too much, you genius of sarcasm. A negative opinion on Yugoslavia's disolution is not a positive opinion on genocide or mass-murder of Jews and Poles.

his "sacred right"

Again you are having a monologue with your own imagination...

Obviously, you are too stupid to understand what a sarcasm means. What I said in the previous post is clearly not what I believe. I stated it as an example of an opinion. Everyone can have some opinion, he can utter some totally idiotic thing and pretend that it is his opinion and invoke his "sacred right" on having an opinion in his defense, when others start to call his opinion for what it is - that is idiotic. My "opinion" expressed in the last post is worthless garbage, as is yours on the breakup of Yugoslavia few posts earlier. Not every opinion is worth of respect. Some are based on certain facts, normalcy, sane judgment, on appropriate knowledge on the topic you are expressing your opinion on. Other kinds of opinions are nonsensical, based on ignorance and cliches. Your "opinion" belongs to the latter category.

That sounds better. You are trying to a have a dialogue now. I understand that for some reason you hate Yugoslavia. There are better forms to express your dissatisfaction. Just cut out the insults and ad personams and it should do.

Jarl

01-30-2010, 01:06 PM

poiuytrewq0987

01-31-2010, 11:50 AM

Well Jarl, some people like more to be stable boys then masters in own house...i guess...Yugo (Southern) Slavia (Slavs) was worst than EU which is 10 times worst mess and that is ok probably :lol:

It's a pity how Yugoslavia isn't here today. With the collapse of Communism in 1991, we would've had Bulgaria join the federation. We''d be on-track to high living standards, equivalent to western European living standards. And it'd not be just higher living standards we'd gain from Yugoslavia, it'd be unity, happiness, and others wouldn't be able to trample on us like they have done in 1999 and 2008 (and I suspect they will continue to do more trampling in the near future). No, we just had to let our emotions override logic and reason. Guys live nationalitist need to read up on the Vulcan; while they may be a fictional race but I feel it will do him some good. :coffee:

poiuytrewq0987

01-31-2010, 12:05 PM

poiuytrewq0987

01-31-2010, 12:13 PM

I've often noticed when discussing on the subject of Yugoslavia, emotions usually come out first before rationale. Hopefully, we can hold down the emotion and let rationale do the talking here in this thread. If you can't do that, then perhaps it is best for you to not participate. I want an interesting thread, not a flame fest, thanks.

poiuytrewq0987

01-31-2010, 12:17 PM

On the subject of the Yugoslav identity being artificial. I disagree, you might say because it was recently "created". So were the Serbian, Bulgarian, Croat, Slovene identities. They were all created at one time, the Yugoslav identity just happened to come out later when there existed ethnic cohesion at one time. The appearance of a Yugoslav identity and development of it can be compared to the appearance and development of a British identity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_People#Development_of_Britishness).

Monolith

01-31-2010, 12:56 PM

On the subject of the Yugoslav identity being artificial. I disagree, you might say because it was recently "created".
I don't think there's much to discuss here. Yugoslav identity was created out of political interest, not because nations here identified with each due to their (imaginary) historical and cultural relatedness, and as such it was not a part of the natural ethnogenesis process.

So were the Serbian, Bulgarian, Croat, Slovene identities. They were all created at one time, the Yugoslav identity just happened to come out later when there existed ethnic cohesion at one time.
Yugoslav ethnic cohesion? :D As for the Croat identity, it dates back to as early as 7th century. It developed separately from other southern Slavic identities, from that time onwards. So it was not (note the bolded word) created at one time, but formed through a period of thirteen centuries. I don't know much about the formation of other ethnic identities you mentioned, nor do I care much.

The appearance of a Yugoslav identity and development of it can be compared to the appearance and development of a British identity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_People#Development_of_Britishness).
Are you out of your mind?

Amarantine

02-01-2010, 07:01 AM

An interesting fact, Yugoslavia covered 255,804km of land in Europe compared to Germany's 357,021km of land. If Bulgaria joined the federation, Yugoslavia would cover up to 366,797km of land; larger than the current Federal Germany.

In fact it was one of the "ideas" of Tito, plus may be Albania (he wasn't so sure about Albania). But, reality dear Vojn is the master in international relations. That project wasn't very possible and realistic at all. As you can se neither Yugoslavia, except with the politic of "strong hand" which is modern theory something equal with autocratism.

And Yugoslavia up to the fall down of Berlin wall in 1991.had full support of West European countries, after fall down od Soviets and Czecholsovakia, the purpose of Yugoslavia -another federation state, just dissapeared.

So, as someone said-divide et impera-we all divided to be gather in another supreme federation aka integration into EU project.

Poltergeist

02-01-2010, 05:16 PM

In your dreams...Serbo-Croatian exists, simply because of millions of exYugoslavs which use them on everyday base!!!

And btw that is the name of my native language and no politics or politician stupid ideology could take it away from me, and all generations who use it.

Your own problem, nobody else's.

Kanasyuvigi

02-01-2010, 10:45 PM

In fact it was one of the "ideas" of Tito, plus may be Albania (he wasn't so sure about Albania). But, reality dear Vojn is the master in international relations. That project wasn't very possible and realistic at all. As you can se neither Yugoslavia, except with the politic of "strong hand" which is modern theory something equal with autocratism.

And Yugoslavia up to the fall down of Berlin wall in 1991.had full support of West European countries, after fall down od Soviets and Czecholsovakia, the purpose of Yugoslavia -another federation state, just dissapeared.

So, as someone said-divide et impera-we all divided to be gather in another supreme federation aka integration into EU project.

Just to mention that the inclusion of Bulgaria in Yugoslavia is not Tito's idea. Many notable historical figures like Josip Strossmeyer and Hristofor Zefarovic had such ideas. Actually, I'm glad that my country didn't take part in that bloody experiment, but I'm also a bit curious... what would happen we were in. Bulgaria, with its population of 8 million, could be the balancing factor in that Federation. Of course, we can only guess. There's only one thing which is certain - the fall of Yugoslavia led to an identity crisis most of the people who lived in SFRJ

Guapo

02-01-2010, 11:43 PM

Guapo

02-02-2010, 03:48 AM

Let's all enjoy Laibach's "Slovania" and drink like the filthy eastern hordes that we are. Hej Slovani, naša reč slovanska živo klije dokler naše verno srce za naš narod bije. Živi, živi, duh slovanski, bodi živ na veke,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZicTSUXOlSg

Tabiti

02-02-2010, 08:25 AM

Yugoslavia, USSR...The new totalitarian imperias that showed the world such kind of dictatorship and creating IMAGINURILY nations won't last long, fortunately.

Svarog

02-02-2010, 08:45 AM

I live in Serbia, go to Croatia on sea, ear Montenegrin food, Bosnia in winter with my Slovenian wife, oops, looks like Yugoslavia still living in my house :p

Radojica

02-02-2010, 08:49 AM

So everyone got money from the state to travel wherever they liked? :D Is that what you are implying? If yes, you are as distantly detachted from any reality as Vojn is. Only those who had money could travel - and do many other things - those who had no money, couldn't afford that. As it is now as well. As it will always be.
Wel
l,this is just stupid and lie. I am not supporter of SFRJ but my mom,who was working in an average factory was able to afford every 6 months new furniture, every summer we were going to holiday in Montenegro for a month, FOUR of us.and sometimes my brothers friend...or two.. Now? Iam able to see sea shores only on the pictures. Btw,Zlovenia was the most developed state in SFRJ,yet,when the time had come to pay the bills,you decided it was better to kill soldier in that tank on the streets of Ljubljana and to start bloodshed which started.

Poltergeist

02-02-2010, 09:00 AM

Yugoslavia was created by people who called themselves Croats but of undefined ethnicity (Strossmayer, Gaj - Czech?).

Vladimir Dvornikovic was a notable Croatian professor who strongly believed in the manifestation of a Yugoslav ethnicity. He actually made a pretty darn compelling argument about why it should be so in a quote below.
Written in Croatian (Karakterologija Jugoslavena), the book addresses the need to establish a national character within the entire country. Dvorniković writes that it is important to "mix" up all elements of Yugoslavia and to create one people (the Yugoslavs). He claims that Serbs and Croats can only survive as a strong nation by integrating into one people (like the unification of Germans and Germany or that of Italians and Italy).,

I don't care about "ethnicity", blood and soil, race and similar concepts. Very few people care about such things, in fact. It is merely intellectual construct, invented by various "professors". Whereas nations are living organisms, not based on the primitivistic notions of "ethnicity" (such as understood by most of the people on this board), but rather on cultural traditions, spiritual heritage, religious and political allegainces or on all the enumerated things combined together.

How did the Serbian nation come into being, Vojvoda? On the basis on "blood", genes, racial ideas, things nobody knew anything about (such concepts didn't even exist back then), nor cared about? No, through the medieval statehood (and later by the virtue of the memory of it, once they were lost to the Turkish conquerors), through the Serbian Orthodox Church and its written tradition etc. The same thing applies more or less to all European nations.

Nations are not created at whim of some professors.

Even if "Yugoslavs" were one "ethnicity" (which is highly doubtful, since there are many local differences, as well as overlappings with neighbouring so-called "ethnicities" in more than one aspect), would it matter in any substantial sense? I don't think so. Materialistic conception of nation, based on "ethnicity" is utterly at odds with the reality of the world, with historical facts or anything really important.

All of it doesn't mean that Dvorniković's book is devoid of any merit. It has very interesting theses, especially regarding the myth of the so-called homo Dinaricus. Which is not merely a myth and stereotype and there is some truth to it. :p

Amarantine

02-02-2010, 09:10 AM

Are you Saltimbanque?
(http://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?u=760)

Svarog

02-02-2010, 09:13 AM

SFRJ almost 25.000.000 of people

NAS I RUSA 200 MILIJONA, NAS BEZ RUSA POLA KAMIJONA :D

we had very nice life there, good schools, not bad Unis, travelled everywhere over planet, cinmetography

Too young to know :(

sport,basket was on of the best in Europe, waterpool;valleyball, football...It was my country. I am so sad I lost it.

Don't wanna battle you my dear Amarantine but when it comes to sport we're still one of the most successful nations in Europe by far even now

I am too lazy to list all the gold medals Serbia has won in waterpolo alone and with Montenegro + you have one alone i think, on European and World championships.

Since the break up, in basketball, Serbia and Montenegro won world championship, European ones, have medals on Olympics plus Serbia is current vice-champion of Europe in the championship in Poland last year and Partizan is regularly in top 16 teams in Euroleague, including theis year - pwned Pnathinaikos in away game in first game top 16 phase :D

Again, too lazy to list all the volleyball medals that has been won.

Bunc of medals won by athletes, atm Nadja and Mile tormenting everyone in swimming, good tennis tho i hate that sport etc

We'll play on football World cup this year, but I don't even consider football as a sport anymore, it's a moneymaking slavery business and no sport included all that much really.

Radojica

02-02-2010, 09:16 AM

i dont think he is. He would attack the whole concept of Yugoslavia in a blink of the eye :p

Amarantine

02-02-2010, 11:45 AM

i dont think he is. He would attack the whole concept of Yugoslavia in a blink of the eye :p

Yes he is, I am sure he is.:p

Monolith

02-02-2010, 01:06 PM

Don't wanna battle you my dear Amarantine but when it comes to sport we're still one of the most successful nations in Europe by far even now

Same goes for Croatia. :)

Guapo

02-02-2010, 09:12 PM

Same goes for Croatia. :)

Enjoy watching Serbia and Slovenia in South Africa

Monolith

02-02-2010, 10:20 PM

Enjoy watching Serbia and Slovenia in South Africa
Good luck :)

Poltergeist

02-03-2010, 02:45 PM

Wel
l,this is just stupid and lie. I am not supporter of SFRJ but my mom,who was working in an average factory was able to afford every 6 months new furniture, every summer we were going to holiday in Montenegro for a month, FOUR of us.and sometimes my brothers friend...or two.. Now? Iam able to see sea shores only on the pictures. Btw,Zlovenia was the most developed state in SFRJ,yet,when the time had come to pay the bills,you decided it was better to kill soldier in that tank on the streets of Ljubljana and to start bloodshed which started.

Don't be telling fairy tales. I know of plenty people who could only dream about going to holidays on the sea back then, people who lived in the interior of the country. "Working in a factory" means nothing if said so generally and indeterminately. There were factories which paid their workers better, others worse, depending not only on their success on the market, but also on subventions by the state (which owned all factories).

And even if what you say of your mother was the case with all other people (and it wasn't), so what? Economical situation changes all the time, in one decade it's better, in another it's worse. What's the point? The state of economy is not a valid criterion for the judging of (un)desirability of some state formation (I am not saying you are maintaining that economy is everything, but this kind of spirit pervades discussions like this one), otherwise people would be "changing" countries all the time, as economy fluctuates. Economy is overrated anyway (I mean, when used as supreme argument for everything), so are such things like standard of living and holidays on the sea. Who says all people want to go to the holidays on the sea? Some are totally uninterested. "Standard of living" is also something that varies very much on the epoch in which one lives, on the needs advertised as absolutely necessary etc (there is an entire theory of "artificial needs").

One of the few - conditionally speaking - "good" things that state socialism provided was a relatively easy way to acquire a place to live, especially if one had family. But it also depended from place to place, not everyone everywhere "got" an appartment. Certain housing policy was implemented by all socialist systems (not only the Yugoslav system). However, it was paid with a terribly price of a general "levelling" of the population, with most people living in small boxes located in ugly, grey, huge buildings.

Svarog

02-03-2010, 09:14 PM

Barcelona pwnd, keep them c'ming ;)

Northern_Paladin

02-03-2010, 09:34 PM

What happened to Yugoslavia Bosnia Herzegovina?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina

Kanasyuvigi

02-03-2010, 09:40 PM

What happened to Yugoslavia Bosnia Herzegovina?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina
Bloodshed.. that happened. Read Vuk Drazhkovic's Noz. Although he is biased (as a Serb), the book is fascinating.

Northern_Paladin

02-03-2010, 09:44 PM

Bloodshed.. that happened. Read Vuk Drazhkovic's Noz. Although he is biased (as a Serb), the book is fascinating.

Željko Ražnatović AKA ARKAN.

Željko Ražnatović (Serbian Cyrillic: Жељко Ражнатовић, pronounced [ʒêːʎko raʒnâːtovitɕ]), widely known as Arkan (Аркан) (17 April 1952 - 15 January 2000), was a Serbian career criminal and later a paramilitary leader who was notable for organizing and leading a paramilitary force in the Yugoslav Wars. He was on Interpol's most wanted list in the 1970s and 1980s for robberies and murders committed in a number of European countries and was later indicted by the UN for crimes against humanity. Arkan was assassinated in 2000 before his trial. To this day he is heavily idolised and seen as a hero by many Serbs.[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BDeljko_Ra%C5%BEnatovi%C4%87

Monolith

02-03-2010, 09:58 PM

What happened to Yugoslavia Bosnia Herzegovina?

Interesting choice of words. Bosnia and Herzegovina indeed is the only surviving remnant of the ex-state. It is kept alive almost exclusively by the international community though.

Svarog

02-04-2010, 01:12 AM

q_GOHJHo1O0

Radojica

02-06-2010, 12:26 AM

Don't be telling fairy tales. I know of plenty people who could only dream about going to holidays on the sea back then, people who lived in the interior of the country.

I was telling from my own and people i know experience. Back then i was able, now i am not.

"Working in a factory" means nothing if said so generally and indeterminately. There were factories which paid their workers better, others worse, depending not only on their success on the market, but also on subventions by the state (which owned all factories).

My mother worked in an average factory with average productivity rate...

And even if what you say of your mother was the case with all other people (and it wasn't), so what? Economical situation changes all the time, in one decade it's better, in another it's worse. What's the point?

So, why federal states started to talk about secessionism only after the external debt was so big that there was no way of returning of it? Why not at the moment of voting for constitution from 1974, when federal states were granted to make their own countries. Back then overall standard living was among the highest in Europe.

The state of economy is not a valid criterion for the judging of (un)desirability of some state formation (I am not saying you are maintaining that economy is everything, but this kind of spirit pervades discussions like this one), otherwise people would be "changing" countries all the time, as economy fluctuates.

Good and stable economy=good life, bad and unstable economy=bad quality of life. That is what common people only measure and care about when its about economy. Everything starts from there.

Economy is overrated anyway (I mean, when used as supreme argument for everything), so are such things like standard of living and holidays on the sea. Who says all people want to go to the holidays on the sea? Some are totally uninterested. "Standard of living" is also something that varies very much on the epoch in which one lives, on the needs advertised as absolutely necessary etc (there is an entire theory of "artificial needs").

I gave an example.

One of the few - conditionally speaking - "good" things that state socialism provided was a relatively easy way to acquire a place to live, especially if one had family. But it also depended from place to place, not everyone everywhere "got" an appartment. Certain housing policy was implemented by all socialist systems (not only the Yugoslav system). However, it was paid with a terribly price of a general "levelling" of the population, with most people living in small boxes located in ugly, grey, huge buildings.

Agree on that.

Poltergeist

02-06-2010, 11:02 AM

So, why federal states started to talk about secessionism only after the external debt was so big that there was no way of returning of it? Why not at the moment of voting for constitution from 1974, when federal states were granted to make their own countries.

Why doesn't every other country fall apart as soon as its economical situation starts to deteriorate? You owe me an answer to that. Besides, if that country was so wonderful (as you imply it was), why did it need to indebt itself so much, to become one of the most heavily indebted countries of the world? It is hardly a sign of health.

Besides, the constitutional right to "secession" existed even prior to the Constitution of 1974.

Back then overall standard living was among the highest in Europe.

LOL :D

Are you aware what you are talking anout? No, the standard of living was significantly lower than that of the Western Europe. However, it is true that the majority of people had their basic needs met, like housing and job (though many people were also deprived of that too). Much of it was provided by the state, through the system of planned economy (though with some market elements in certain cases), but at what price? Well, you mentioned external debt yourself.

Good and stable economy=good life, bad and unstable economy=bad quality of life. That is what common people only measure and care about when its about economy. Everything starts from there.

Unless one defines what exactly "good life" means, this kind of equation means nothing. As I told you, I know of people who have never been to the sea for holidays, although they have financial means for that. They are simply not interested. Having basic needs for the preservation of life met (food & shelter), plus being able to pay bills and eventually provide some basic education (which is in today's world a must), these are the only firm points, everything else is relative. Many people tend to be satisfied with that. And that's what most people have now, as they had then (except that there is no more housing system provided by the state).

Regarding economy: well, it can be seen from different points of view. For some people free enterprise is a more important thing than some supposed "security" guaranteed by the state, because they have an urge to create something for themselves. Others cry for the unearned and crave to be cuddled by the nanny state from cradle to grave. It is from the latter that usually comes idealization of socialist systems.

Moustache

02-06-2010, 03:09 PM

Tens of thousands of ethnic Magyars were murdered in Bácska in 1944-45 to "keep the province of Voivodina's Yugoslav character", so I say good riddance, screw that character that has been floating about in a jar in Frankenstein's museum of history.

Yugoslavia's status gained from being part of the non-alignment movement was devaluated when the world order ceased to be bipolar. Before the collapse of Communism, it was viewed in chiefly positive light in Hungary: as a source of Western goods (jeans etc.) and as a favourite country of hliday makers. I guess the relation was comparable to how citizens of more hardcore East Bloc dictatorships like the GDR felt towards the more relaxed People's Republic of Hungary.

People look back at the transition today and see it as a process without bloodshed in most countries - YU serves as a reminder that this was not at all self-explanatory at the time.

The break-up also resulted in more teams Hungary can play water polo with. Sometimes, we even let them win. Yeah, I know, we're awesome. ;)

Monolith

02-06-2010, 04:53 PM

There's only one thing which is certain - the fall of Yugoslavia led to an identity crisis most of the people who lived in SFRJ
Please explain.

My mother worked in an average factory with average productivity rate...
Thing is, even the "average" productivity rate then was unable to sustain the economy, hence the external debt, though this "average" means little. It's one of the basic laws of economy - whenever you increase something (employment), something else (productivity) will automatically decrease through a dynamic process.

Besides, the constitutional right to "secession" existed even prior to the Constitution of 1974.
Interesting. I always thought this "right" to secede was first introduced in the constitution you mentioned.

Others cry for the unearned and crave to be cuddled by the nanny state from cradle to grave. It is from the latter that usually comes idealization of socialist systems.
True. I believe much of this old mentality is alive and well even today. Many people who grew up in Yugoslavia blame the state for their personal failures, such as the inability to find employment (which indeed is hard, though the state doesn't have to employ them anymore), while spending their days at home or at some inn, waiting for the employers to knock on their door.

The break-up also resulted in more teams Hungary can play water polo with. Sometimes, we even let them win. Yeah, I know, we're awesome. ;)
You wish. We own you. :P