Feminist Worldview [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

Borna

06-02-2014, 12:16 PM

feminism is a logical reaction to the world run by (rich old) men. Remember Newton, action - reaction?

Actually you are wrong, women are being now protected in any sphere of business. Just take a look in recent years how many females got themselves various key positions in very important economic and business institutions. And we can see the result of it.

Prime role of Women is to be good mother to her kids, not to chase career. It is the way of nature, it is how every single living community manages to survive.
My mother before she passed away worked a lot, but she managed as well to take care of home.

I am not misogynic, but imagine life where your wife sits around whole day around pubs and chat with her friends, neglecting kids, having fun in life, while you work your butt off to provide them a decent life. How long would you tolerate that?

Kalimtari

06-02-2014, 12:22 PM

Actually you are wrong, women are being now protected in any sphere of business. Just take a look in recent years how many females got themselves various key positions in very important economic and business institutions. And we can see the result of it.

Prime role of Women is to be good mother to her kids, not to chase career. It is the way of nature, it is how every single living community manages to survive.
My mother before she passed away worked a lot, but she managed as well to take care of home.

I am not misogynic, but imagine life where your wife sits around whole day around pubs and chat with her friends, neglecting kids, having fun in life, while you work your butt off to provide them a decent life. How long would you tolerate that?

actually, that makes me very happy, hope it continues like that. I'm a strong Progressivist, I don't care too much about Traditionalist/Conservative values and norms.

Borna

06-02-2014, 12:28 PM

actually, that makes me very happy, hope it continues like that. I'm a strong Progressivist, I don't care too much about Traditionalist/Conservative values and norms.

I think there are some jobs that can't be done by both women and men. Why don't women go around as house builders if they are equal ? Or miserable amount of men work in kindergartens ?

Would you let your women do electricity around house, or move furniture and stuff like that?

Kalimtari

06-02-2014, 12:32 PM

I think there are some jobs that can't be done by both women and men. Why don't women go around as house builders if they are equal ? Or miserable amount of men work in kindergartens ?

Would you let your women do electricity around house, or move furniture and stuff like that?

if she's got the required skills, absolutely

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 12:54 PM

Actually you are wrong, women are being now protected in any sphere of business. Just take a look in recent years how many females got themselves various key positions in very important economic and business institutions. And we can see the result of it.

Prime role of Women is to be good mother to her kids, not to chase career. It is the way of nature, it is how every single living community manages to survive.
My mother before she passed away worked a lot, but she managed as well to take care of home.

I am not misogynic, but imagine life where your wife sits around whole day around pubs and chat with her friends, neglecting kids, having fun in life, while you work your butt off to provide them a decent life. How long would you tolerate that?

First time I agree with you, that's absolutely true.

Kalimtari

06-02-2014, 01:13 PM

First time I agree with you, that's absolutely true.

like this girl?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvKzyuL7ubQ

gorąco, bardzo gorąco! :P

Borna

06-02-2014, 01:17 PM

I really like Polish people and their culture, this one i like the most.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZDJHrWVC60

LightHouse89

06-02-2014, 01:18 PM

if feminists were really for equality they would parade for sex quotas in constructions sites, steel mills or mines. they seem to be more interested in top management positions to me. they want more women CEOs but why not more women in garbage disposal? when you ask them this question they don't give you a straight reply, they just accuse you of misogyny.

in America they say that men should be stay at home dads and raise the children while they are theb read winners of the relationship.

LightHouse89

06-02-2014, 01:20 PM

if she's got the required skills, absolutely

then the power goes out on the entire block.... men should do mens work and women should do womens work. thats just how I view alot of things and to me having such an opinion is not sexist but just rational and very normal. :thumb001::p

Kalimtari

06-02-2014, 01:22 PM

then the power goes out on the entire block.... men should do mens work and women should do womens work. thats just how I view alot of things and to me having such an opinion is not sexist but just rational and very normal. :thumb001::p

To each its own, don't you agree?

Linebacker

06-02-2014, 01:31 PM

Hàkon

06-02-2014, 01:36 PM

"Men are all pigs. Women are equal to men." - Feminists
To be fair, the latter is more about equality in terms of intrinsic value as humans, and thereby in the face of law, which one could argue was the aspiration at the time; as for the implication of the two statements, yes.

For the record, I agree that females are very much protected and less lucrative on average in today's society (this is a statistical fact), this can, unsurprisingly, result in a general loss of respect for women in the eyes those who observe it, which in turn, in some cases, is unjustly applied to all of women, creating another form of problem.

Kalimtari

06-02-2014, 01:36 PM

You wanna blame anyone for feminists,blame yourself.

All feminists in most cases are women that have been abused by men.

Also a huge misconception is that feminists are hardcore men haters.In most cases that's not whats going on.What's going on is they are women who want to be respected and not treated as low-grade material.

Pretty sure I can get along with a feminist just fine and even date one.

you're nicer lately? What happened? Are you perhaps in love? Not teasing you, just a honest question.

Kalimtari

06-02-2014, 01:39 PM

To be fair, the latter is more about equality in terms of intrinsic value as humans, and thereby in the face of law, which one could argue was the aspiration at the time; as for the implication of the two statements, yes.

For the record, I agree that females are very much protected and less lucrative on average in today's society (this is a statistical fact), this can, unsurprisingly, result in a general loss of respect for women in the eyes those who observe it, which in turn, in some cases, is unjustly applied to all of women, creating another form of problem.

sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one

Male-Female Pay Gap Hasn’t Moved Much in Years

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2013/09/17/male-female-pay-gap-hasnt-moved-much-in-years/

IMHO it's still:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBLNYuKLYD0

Linebacker

06-02-2014, 01:43 PM

you're nicer lately? What happened? Are you perhaps in love? Not teasing you, just a honest question.

I banged Saturday.Usually when I have sex and let out some excessive testosterone I'm as calm as a Koala bear for a couple of days.

Then I go back to beast mode.Enjoy it while it lasts.

Unome

06-02-2014, 01:43 PM

A beautiful feminist (lipstick lesbian) is an oxymoron to feminism.

Most "feminists" are either ugly, below-average looking, or as SvenDC mentioned, previously abused by men (raped or slapped around). These types of females see all men "the same".

cally

06-02-2014, 01:49 PM

OMG listen to yourselves -_-

Hàkon

06-02-2014, 01:50 PM

sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one

Read again, this is not a case of opinion, for fuck's sake.

Women earn less, yes, but not because men are mean (although one cannot fully exclude gender bias) but because females are more expensive; males not only major in more productive subjects (more economically beneficial for society), but also work longer (not only on a daily basis but in terms of (working life/ lifespan)) and more efficiently on average.

Kalimtari

06-02-2014, 01:59 PM

I banged Saturday.Usually when I have sex and let out some excessive testosterone I'm as calm as a Koala bear for a couple of days.

Then I go back to beast mode.Enjoy it while it lasts.

Actually I generally like it, it doesn't mean enough to me to engage in enjoying it

Kalimtari

06-02-2014, 02:00 PM

Virtuous

06-02-2014, 02:01 PM

feminism is a logical reaction to the world run by (rich old) men. Remember Newton, action - reaction?

Feminism is one of the many Marxist oppressed vs. oppressor paradimes that seeks to overthrow a mythical tyrant regime or the current order of things (whether natural or constructed) to install instead of it an angelic group of human beings save from sinful thought to rule everyone in Just measure and to make sure the unequal is leveled with the equal by unequalizing the already presumed equal/advantaged.

Hithaeglir

06-02-2014, 02:03 PM

I think you don't understand the feministic logic well.According to Feminism...WOMEN > men

Kalimtari

06-02-2014, 02:06 PM

Feminism is one of the many Marxist oppressed vs. oppressor paradimes that seeks to overthrow an mythical tyrant regime or the current order of things (whether natural or constructed) to install instead of it an angelic group of human beings save from sinful thought to rule everyone in Just measure and to make sure the unequal is leveled with the equal by unequalizing the already presumed equal.

I don't agree with you, too generalizing and over simplistic, not even to mention it's super biased

Kalimtari

06-02-2014, 02:08 PM

I think you don't understand the feministic logic well.According to Feminism...WOMEN > men

Newton's Third Law
Identifying Action and Reaction Force Pairs

Hàkon

06-02-2014, 02:12 PM

le source, por favor?
Yeah, sure.

An Analysis of Reasons for the Disparity in Wages Between Men and Women (http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf)

How Much of the Remaining Gender Pay Gap is the Result of Discrimination, and How Much is Due to Individual Choices? (http://www.ijull.co.uk/vol7/2/thomson.pdf) Read the conclusion, if you're lazy.

This (http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09279.pdf) study underlines the fact that the the more women work like men (study similar subjects, work equal hours and in equal ways) the less of a pay gap there is.

Do you need more? Because there is a shitload of them.

See, if you're going to sit on a high horse, make sure you sit firmly.

Neanderthal

06-02-2014, 02:32 PM

I can understand why a woman would want to side with feminism, since, they are women, after all. Expecting the contrary would be like expecting a Black person reckoning 'White superiority'. Although, even if I understand the association of ideology for affinity/group cohesion, I think it's quite an infantile conduct; just like in kindergarten when boys and girls used to fight over who was better and both were lame retards who wasn't even capable of writing their names.

Just a bunch of angry retards on both sides, angry militant retards.

Dandelion

06-02-2014, 02:33 PM

http://img0.joyreactor.com/pics/post/full/comics-adrianagameover-women-feminism-764458.png

Unome

06-02-2014, 02:44 PM

Read again, this is not a case of opinion, for fuck's sake.

Women earn less, yes, but not because men are mean (although one cannot fully exclude gender bias) but because females are more expensive; males not only major in more productive subjects (more economically beneficial for society), but also work longer (not only on a daily basis but in terms of (working life/ lifespan)) and more efficiently on average.
Women earn less because traditionally women did not work much at all, stayed home, and depended on the man's salary for sustenance.

Feminism is also a capitalist ideology, pushing women into the work-force, effectively doubling it.

Should women pay for dinner on a first date? Should women hold doors open for men? Should males be the privileged gender? Should women be obliged to pay for men's requests?

There is your answer on "Feminism".

Colonel Frank Grimes

06-02-2014, 02:52 PM

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 03:02 PM

like this girl?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvKzyuL7ubQ

gorąco, bardzo gorąco! :P

Nope, that's a pathetic slut.
In polish TV there was some interview with her and she is dumb as fuck.
They only thing she is able to do - strip for money.

A typical feminist for me - dumb, acting like a man, with zero self respect.

And those 'rapers' jesus - it's like polish lowest league of nonskills who rap about bitches, money and being poor. Guy who produced whole this crap known from eurovision is like the biggest soldout ever and has nothing to do with real rap culture. Everybody with some brains in poland is laughing at him, because all he can do is making songs with young halfnude sluts dressed as slavs, calling this 'slavic culture' and earning shitloads of cash.

Kalimtari

06-02-2014, 03:12 PM

Yeah, sure.

An Analysis of Reasons for the Disparity in Wages Between Men and Women (http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf)

How Much of the Remaining Gender Pay Gap is the Result of Discrimination, and How Much is Due to Individual Choices? (http://www.ijull.co.uk/vol7/2/thomson.pdf) Read the conclusion, if you're lazy.

This (http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09279.pdf) study underlines the fact that the the more women work like men (study similar subjects, work equal hours and in equal ways) the less of a pay gap there is.

Do you need more? Because there is a shitload of them.

See, if you're going to sit on a high horse, make sure you sit firmly.

thanks, I'm checking them right now.

and you check this, if you want:

In recent years, more than a dozen studies have provided evidence of women's lower self
-
esteem in coeducational
colleges than in single
-
sex schools. Recently Kathleen Welch, at Yale, compared assertiveness in discussions, as
one
measure of self
-
esteem, in classrooms at Yale, Brown, Wellesley, and Smith. What she found was that women
at both of the mixed
-
sex institutions were verbally less assertive than men, in the sense that they were more likely
to use hedges, qualifiers and que
stioning intonations. By contrast, women at Smith and Wellesley were not only
more assertive than women at Yale and Brown, but also
--
most surprisingly
--
more assertive than men at the
coeducational institutions

https://www.hds.uni-leipzig.de/uploads/media/AB_Diversity_Harvard_Gender.pdf

PDF copy-paste quality, sorry :D

Kalimtari

06-02-2014, 03:15 PM

Nope, that's a pathetic slut.
In polish TV there was some interview with her and she is dumb as fuck.
They only thing she is able to do - strip for money.

A typical feminist for me - dumb, acting like a man, with zero self respect.

And those 'rapers' jesus - it's like polish lowest league of nonskills who rap about bitches, money and being poor. Guy who produced whole this crap known from eurovision is like the biggest soldout ever and has nothing to do with real rap culture. Everybody with some brains in poland is laughing at him, because all he can do is making songs with young halfnude sluts dressed as slavs, calling this 'slavic culture' and earning shitloads of cash.

I don't agree with you, i like her, not just her sexiness, moreover her ounk/rebel mentality (after watching some interviews with her).

Oneeye

06-02-2014, 03:16 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvKzyuL7ubQ

gorąco, bardzo gorąco! :P

LOL, she is the only one doing any work while the men sit around and do nothing. Is this slavic culture? :p

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 03:17 PM

I don't agree with you, i like her, not just her sexiness, moreover her ounk/rebel mentality (after watching some interviews with her).

So you prefer to ignore the fact she is making money by selling her body.
Whatever suits you mate.

Kalimtari

06-02-2014, 03:18 PM

So you prefer to ignore the fact she is making money by selling her body.
Whatever suits you mate.

were all whores in a way, selling ourselves and what we stand for. Human society is nothing special you know

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 03:20 PM

LOL, she is the only one doing any work while the men sit around and do nothing. Is this slavic culture? :p

This is a parody of slavic culture made by cashmaking idiots.
It goes like "nie lubimy robić, lubimy się wozić" which means "we don't like to work, we like to boast of doing nothing"
In other words, they are lazy and are proud of it.

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 03:21 PM

were all whores in a way, selling ourselves and what we stand for. Human society is nothing special you know

Speak for youself, would you

Unome

06-02-2014, 03:24 PM

If women want to take pride "over men" then why not emphasize and remind everybody her role as mother, preserve of culture, and protector of the future? A proud woman protects her body & integrity. She doesn't allow just any man into her home, nor any stranger to have sex with her. She discriminates, and this discrimination is the cause of "Natural Selection". A woman chooses which men will reproduce genes, and which not. If women breed poorly then her society will crumble. If women breed well, and only allow the best, then her society will strengthen and become the beacon of the world.

That is something women could become "proud" about and hoist above men. But women are silent, as usual. Women tend to be followers of discussion, not leaders.

Dandelion

06-02-2014, 03:38 PM

LOL, she is the only one doing any work while the men sit around and do nothing. Is this slavic culture? :p

Slavic culture in a nutshell. Lazy men, hardworking women. A bit matriarchal too, as the women boss the men around at home.

Borna

06-02-2014, 03:44 PM

Slavic culture in a nutshell. Lazy men, hardworking women. A bit matriarchal too, as the women boss the men around at home.

Germanics are way more matriarchal then Slavic people are. As someone who lived in areas where they overlap, and generally from two families one being Slavic and other Germanic i can say this is not true.

Slavs are patriarchal when it comes to various family decisions, but Slavs view mother as something she should be. Mother. Someone who will take care of kids while father is out there earning money for the family. This does not mean you have to be with dumb,uneducated stupid housekeeping wife, but live harmonious life where all members of family know their role.

Kalimtari

06-02-2014, 04:17 PM

Speak for youself, would you

no, I'm generalizing with a specific purpose, so, chill out

rhiannon

06-02-2014, 04:18 PM

I think there are some jobs that can't be done by both women and men. Why don't women go around as house builders if they are equal ? Or miserable amount of men work in kindergartens ? Some men make great teachers. My husband would do wonderfully teaching little children...he loves them and relates well to them!

Would you let your women do electricity around house, or move furniture and stuff like that?Oh Good Lord....whaddaya think we women are? A bunch of weaklings? Hubs and I have moved furniture and worked on electrical issues around the house....it's not a big deal.

Dandelion

06-02-2014, 04:21 PM

Women can't even open a jar without the help of men. :lol:

Rudel

06-02-2014, 04:24 PM

Women can't even open a jar without the help of men.

http://youtu.be/NDO07aNFmz0

Mraz

06-02-2014, 04:26 PM

Feminism seen as women being a social class of their own is completely stupid. A rich woman who earns her life by the income of her Capital hasn't much to do with a woman who works as a cashier.

What matters is the equality of rights and the equality of opportunities, I'm for it and I'm pretty sure the majority of the people living in Europe believes the same.

rhiannon

06-02-2014, 04:29 PM

Read again, this is not a case of opinion, for fuck's sake.

Women earn less, yes, but not because men are mean (although one cannot fully exclude gender bias) but because females are more expensive; males not only major in more productive subjects (more economically beneficial for society), but also work longer (not only on a daily basis but in terms of (working life/ lifespan)) and more efficiently on average.

The reason for that is one we should all mostly know....

Good ol' Biology.

Women lose a certain amount of productivity when they have to take extended breaks from the workplace while either giving birth or caring for younger children. Most men certainly have no desire to do it, and somebody's got to lol

Most of us women wind up with long gaps in our employment history as a result. It doesn't mean we're necessarily less productive while actually on the job, however. Admittedly, women have the additional burden of dealing with any kid issue that comes up while both parents are away at their workplaces. In most cases, the sick child who needs a pick up from school or daycare isn't going to get picked up by dad....but rather by mom.

None of this applies to childless women, though.

Harrow

06-02-2014, 04:31 PM

Neanderthal

06-02-2014, 04:31 PM

Some men make great teachers. My husband would do wonderfully teaching little children...he loves them and relates well to them!

Oh Good Lord....whaddaya think we women are? A bunch of weaklings? Hubs and I have moved furniture and worked on electrical issues around the house....it's not a big deal.

That's pretty cool. My mother and sister cannot open a bottle of water for themselves, they just lack strength I guess, or determination or whatever. My girlfriend is pretty much the same, she is just more imaginative, if she cannot open it she probably would pierce the bottle or something.

I would love living in a family of strong amazon women so I didn't had to be lifting jug waters and opening jars every 5 mins. ;)

rhiannon

06-02-2014, 04:31 PM

Women can't even open a jar without the help of men. :lol:I have to open the jars for hubs....thanks to his rheumatoid arthritis. He's lucky to have married a stronger woman:thumb001:

Raven_

06-02-2014, 04:32 PM

Nope, that's a pathetic slut.
In polish TV there was some interview with her and she is dumb as fuck.
They only thing she is able to do - strip for money.

A typical feminist for me - dumb, acting like a man, with zero self respect.

And those 'rapers' jesus - it's like polish lowest league of nonskills who rap about bitches, money and being poor. Guy who produced whole this crap known from eurovision is like the biggest soldout ever and has nothing to do with real rap culture. Everybody with some brains in poland is laughing at him, because all he can do is making songs with young halfnude sluts dressed as slavs, calling this 'slavic culture' and earning shitloads of cash.

I found that Eurovision song very demeaning. What person would want to spread the nastiest stereotypes about his ethnic group?

Farah

06-02-2014, 04:35 PM

"Men are all pigs. Women are equal to men." - Feminists

Really now. It's funny, I always hear many men claim that feminists say this, but I've rarely if ever have heard a woman state that men are pigs. If you believe this is what feminism is about, then you are not even willing to understand or research deeper into what this movement (which has many sub-movements) is about.

if feminists were really for equality they would parade for sex quotas in constructions sites, steel mills or mines. they seem to be more interested in top management positions to me. they want more women CEOs but why not more women in garbage disposal? when you ask them this question they don't give you a straight reply, they just accuse you of misogyny.

Obviously because women are physically weaker than men and physically incapable of working in such manually straining occupations. This is the norm, while ofcourse there are exceptions where women have worked. Women aren't shouting "MAKE US ALL CEOs", they are asking for an equal access to opportunities and the ability to simply choose, just like men do.

Let me ask the men here something. when you see men killing young women in the name of chastity, when they are killing them for choosing to go to school, when they subconsciously or consciously justify rape by saying "she shouldn't have worn that" or "she's a slut", when many countries still allow domestic violence to take place, when women still have to endure being stared at or groped when you're walking down the street - are you really going to say women have it all dandy and rosy in this world? That women are spoiled brats?

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 04:36 PM

I found that Eurovision song very demeaning. What person would want to spread the nastiest stereotypes about his ethnic group?

Stereotypes of slutty slavish women and lazy, dumb slavs who act like total chavs?
A guy who knows how to make some easy money while shitting on his own culture.
That scum is not even polish, he claims to be a proud descendant of russian communists. (enough said)

rhiannon

06-02-2014, 04:37 PM

I think we should separate feminism from radical feminism. The former is a lot more dignified as it rallied for women's suffrage and equal rights for women. The latter, however, is the pseudo-philosophy you see enormously overweight women chanting to today, where men are portrayed as bloodthirsty animals and all biology and logic is perverted.

A woman's weight has nothing to do with any of this. You're being superficial here. I know feminists of all walks of life.

Odd, and somewhat ironic....I read outcries on here when someone posts bullshit about women getting stoned to death somewhere in the middle east for things that are ridiculous....yet those are the very societies you men would all have if everything went back to the "traditional ways"...because back during the time when traditional ways meant the norm....women were nothing more than chattel.

:vote_no:
:icon_bs:

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 04:38 PM

Really now. It's funny, I always hear many men claim that feminists say this, but I've rarely if ever have heard a woman state that men are pigs. If you believe this is what feminism is about, then you are not even willing to understand or research deeper into what this movement (which has many sub-movements) is about.

You mean young girls who fight for equality of all women by walking full nude on some fancy parades while shouting insults toward everyone who disagrees with them?
You certainly haven't seen much of how real leftists look like.

Incal

06-02-2014, 04:39 PM

You wanna blame anyone for feminists,blame yourself.

All feminists in most cases are women that have been abused by men.

Also a huge misconception is that feminists are hardcore men haters.In most cases that's not whats going on.What's going on is they are women who want to be respected and not treated as low-grade material.

Pretty sure I can get along with a feminist just fine and even date one.

You definitely should. I did and had tons of fun: We disagreed on some ideas but there was always mutual respect regarding our opinions.

Kalimtari

06-02-2014, 04:40 PM

Harrow

06-02-2014, 04:42 PM

A woman's weight has nothing to do with any of this. You're being superficial here. I know feminists of all walks of life.

You've never seen radical feminists, evidently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pag5eIoAsmM

Fat activism plays a prominent role in radical-feminist theology, as does the abandonment of marriage as an institution and procreation.

I praised feminism in my post and yet I'm still attacked. Women should have equal rights; they should not be elevated to some untouchable pedestal and natural biological limitations of the sexes should be taken into account when examining cases of 'patriarchal' dominance.

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 04:44 PM

Slavic culture in a nutshell. Lazy men, hardworking women. A bit matriarchal too, as the women boss the men around at home.

Very funny.

Not.

Incal

06-02-2014, 04:46 PM

That's pretty cool. My mother and sister cannot open a bottle of water for themselves, they just lack strength I guess, or determination or whatever. My girlfriend is pretty much the same, she is just more imaginative, if she cannot open it she probably would pierce the bottle or something.

I would love living in a family of strong amazon women so I didn't had to be lifting jug waters and opening jars every 5 mins. ;)

Same:

http://x1.fjcdn.com/comments/4258363+_f5d6ca254d73a08f28fcc72d5c1d0604.jpg

Raven_

06-02-2014, 04:46 PM

Women can't even open a jar without the help of men. :lol:

Everyone can open a jar. You just have to strike a jar's lid against something hard f.ex. table.

rhiannon

06-02-2014, 04:47 PM

You've never seen radical feminists, evidently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pag5eIoAsmM

Fat activism plays a prominent role in radical-feminist theology, as does the abandonment of marriage as an institution and procreation.

I praised feminism in my post and yet I'm still attacked. Women should have equal rights; they should not be elevated to some untouchable pedestal and natural biological limitations of the sexes should be taken into account when examining cases of 'patriarchal' dominance.

You know what though? Being bigger, fat, overweight, or whatever....doesn't mean they're a bad person.

Fat women could be saying all the right things about tradition and whatnot...you men would still pick mercilessly on them for being fat. It really doesn't matter what they do because they can't win on anything.

I was only picking apart your reference to their weight....which is an irrelevant topic IMO. We won't go into the issue of fat acceptance or fat shaming here lol

As for your overall stance, it struck me as more reasonable than some of the other ideas I've read on here lol :)

Kalimtari

06-02-2014, 04:47 PM

Very funny.

Not.

why are you so cocky lately? Sven became nicer and you just became a naggidy-nag-nag.
¿Por qué, hijo mío? ;)

LightHouse89

06-02-2014, 04:48 PM

A woman's weight has nothing to do with any of this. You're being superficial here. I know feminists of all walks of life.

Odd, and somewhat ironic....I read outcries on here when someone posts bullshit about women getting stoned to death somewhere in the middle east for things that are ridiculous....yet those are the very societies you men would all have if everything went back to the "traditional ways"...because back during the time when traditional ways meant the norm....women were nothing more than chattel.

:vote_no:
:icon_bs:

despite my anti femnist views I doubt we could be comparable to ancient israel or modern middle east proper....I couldnt bring myself to stone a woman to death even if she belonged to FEMEN...those are not traditional ways at all.....by traditional we mean usually like women being house wives and raising children or like they use to be in the 1800s. I dont think women were stoned to death in those days? Women were more than chattel because they created children, raised them, fed the family, did house work.... taught or educated the children....I think the woman did more than what men did in that period and maybe women today feel they are not apprieciated for their work. I dont think most women today are the way they use to be in the past.

Women are a gift from the heavens to me.

Dandelion

06-02-2014, 04:48 PM

Everyone can open a jar. You just have to strike a jar's lid against something hard f.ex. table.

You are giving away a vital secret to the womenfolk, way to go traitor.

Catkin

06-02-2014, 04:48 PM

Women can't even open a jar without the help of men. :lol:

Run it under hot water and then whack it on the table :thumb001:

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 04:51 PM

You guys and girls need to grow up, since you all believe in some funny ideals.
Yeah, feminism possibly even sounds rational and fair IN THEORY, ergo you are being so easily hypnotised by all this leftist bullshit.
I'm just wondering why no critical thought has ever passed through mind.
Thought like - hell, maybe they don't even care about those poor women...
Since when you believe in every pompous idea given you by media?
If you really believe those wankers are fighting for your better future, you gotta be extremely dumb/naive or both.

Like I already said one time, go and read Brave New World.
Everybody is so equal there. A perfect world, right?

LightHouse89

06-02-2014, 04:51 PM

You know what though? Being bigger, fat, overweight, or whatever....doesn't mean they're a bad person.

Fat women could be saying all the right things about tradition and whatnot...you men would still pick mercilessly on them for being fat. It really doesn't matter what they do because they can't win on anything.

I was only picking apart your reference to their weight....which is an irrelevant topic IMO. We won't go into the issue of fat acceptance or fat shaming here lol

As for your overall stance, it struck me as more reasonable than some of the other ideas I've read on here lol :)

whats funny about women is they are convinced they know more than men and then again you have men who claim they know more then women....I think people who know more tend to be a minority of either sex to be honest. I dont think women are smarter than men just more mature....however to me they act more immature when they go on feminist rants about how bad life in 2014 is for them :cool: I mean its not like we are not living under sharia law.

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 04:52 PM

why are you so cocky lately? Sven became nicer and you just became a naggidy-nag-nag.
¿Por qué, hijo mío? ;)

And you know that because you sit near me while I write this and observe my reactions
Such an internet psychologist you have become, wow wow

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 04:53 PM

rhiannon

06-02-2014, 04:53 PM

despite my anti femnist views I doubt we could be comparable to ancient israel or modern middle east proper....I couldnt bring myself to stone a woman to death even if she belonged to FEMEN...those are not traditional ways at all.....by traditional we mean usually like women being house wives and raising children or like they use to be in the 1800s. I dont think women were stoned to death in those days? Women were more than chattel because they created children, raised them, fed the family, did house work.... taught or educated the children....I think the woman did more than what men did in that period and maybe women today feel they are not apprieciated for their work. I dont think most women today are the way they use to be in the past.

Women are a gift from the heavens to me.

Women were not allowed to vote. They couldn't divorce....but the man could divorce them. They couldn't even sign on the dotted line because they were essentially the man's property. This is how it was at the start of the 20th century.

Most women have no desire to go back to that.

Kalimtari

06-02-2014, 04:53 PM

You guys and girls need to grow up, since you all believe in some funny ideals.
Yeah, feminism possibly even sounds rational and fair IN THEORY, ergo you are being so easily hypnotised by all this leftist bullshit.
I'm just wondering why no critical thought has ever passed through mind.
Thought like - hell, maybe they don't even care about those poor women...
Since when you believe in every pompous idea given you by media?
If you believe those wankers are fighting for your better future, you gotta be extremely dumb/naive or both.

Like I already said one time, go and read Brave New World.
Everybody is so equal there. A perfect world, right?

generalizing as fuck, aren't we? ;)

Farah

06-02-2014, 04:55 PM

You mean young girls who fight for equality of all women by walking full nude on some fancy parades while shouting insults toward everyone who disagrees with them?
You certainly haven't seen much of how real leftists look like.

Yeah that's radical feminism and it's, as evident, a criticized and radical offshoot from a wider movement.

LightHouse89

06-02-2014, 04:56 PM

You wanna blame anyone for feminists,blame yourself.

All feminists in most cases are women that have been abused by men.

Also a huge misconception is that feminists are hardcore men haters.In most cases that's not whats going on.What's going on is they are women who want to be respected and not treated as low-grade material.

Pretty sure I can get along with a feminist just fine and even date one.

In the modern sense no...they are just nuts. Out right nuts in the head. However back when they were apart of the women sufferage movement that was a different story...today most of them are loony tunes.

Harrow

06-02-2014, 04:57 PM

You know what though? Being bigger, fat, overweight, or whatever....doesn't mean they're a bad person.

And where did I say that being overweight makes someone a "bad person"? It's quite obvious that this tactic is used to elicit guilt and pity and is used as a fallback for those unable to obtain a mate. This is basic evolutionary psychology at best. These women are elevated to a position where they're not allowed to be criticised when it is quite obvious that intentionally losing any care for your body image is unhealthy both psychologically and internally. They also intentionally degrade the institutions of marriage and the idea of procreating when such institutions are intrinsically beautiful and essentially the objective point of living.

Fat women could be saying all the right things about tradition and whatnot...you men would still pick mercilessly on them for being fat. It really doesn't matter what they do because they can't win on anything.

Rhiannon, these are women who complain about not being able to obtain a mating partner. Gee, I wonder why, when they're so overweight they cannot bear their own image. Thinking highly of yourself is important and this is reflected in your physical-appearance and attitude. These women feel estranged because they treat themselves like dirt.

I was only picking apart your reference to their weight....which is an irrelevant topic IMO. We won't go into the issue of fat acceptance or fat shaming here lol

It's relevant. These women see a healthy body-image as a construct of patriarchal society despite that theory being nonsensical, constructed from the mind of someone who hates themselves and all around them.

As for your overall stance, it struck me as more reasonable than some of the other ideas I've read on here lol :)

A healthy body image is a reflection of one's attitude to the world and it is crucial in deciding whether one will obtain a mating partner. These women are considered ugly as they consider themselves ugly and disregard any opinion on 'beauty' as contorted patriarchal dominance precisely because such theories of beauty consider them unattractive.

Kalimtari

06-02-2014, 04:57 PM

Kalimtari

06-02-2014, 04:59 PM

And you know that because you sit near me while I write this and observe my reactions
Such an internet psychologist you have become, wow wow

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AGAuf6vOs3Q/TrHwJaLNNTI/AAAAAAAAAR0/J5FdTaSA4yM/s1600/imagesi-brought-toast.jpg

Kalimtari

06-02-2014, 05:00 PM

Yeah that's radical feminism and it's, as evident, a criticized and radical offshoot from a wider movement.

+1

The Illyrian Warrior

06-02-2014, 05:03 PM

Feminism is direct attack of natural values of male which are strength, honor, gender whose support family so on so forth while today feminism brought situation toward equality in terms of behavior not rights.

rhiannon

06-02-2014, 05:03 PM

I am all for equal rights. If that means equal duties too. So unless women are called up for the draft, so until women need to pay alimony and child support in divorce cases we are not going to talk about equal rights.

How did the Dutch version of the Internationale put it ? Ah yes:

Broeders hoort hoe gelijkheid spreekt:
Geen recht, waar plicht is opgeheven,
Geen plicht, leert zij, waar recht ontbreekt.

You have no idea what it's like out here, though. I live in one of the most progressive of all states when it comes to Family Law. Women can and do pay child support....they would pay palimony too in situations where the man stayed home to care for the kids during the marriage. Plus, women now can serve in combat roles. We have yet to have a draft in any recent years, but it would be interesting to see (theoretically only mind you....because God I hate war and don't want this at all) what a draft now would mean.

Equal duties? Why is the raising of children not considered a "duty" It surely is! It's one of our most important duties as a species, in fact. Consider that along with your "equal duties" argument. Men can never share the burden of childbirth and what that does to a woman's overall physiology, either. Seems in your argument, women aren't given their equal credit due for the important things they have historically brought to the table....at least your reasoning doesn't appear to give any.

Equal choices and equal opportunities for both men and women, simple. I have no issue with how families divvy up workloads, childcare, employment, or whatnot....so long as they are given the right to make those choices in the first place :)

ETA...oh crap I thought you were Harrow....sorry!!!!

Aviator

06-02-2014, 05:07 PM

The issue with feminism today is that it does exactly the opposite of what it is mean to. Feminism should be about a woman's freedom to choose her own path. Many women legitimately want to stay home a raise a proper family, but feminists look down on that and bash stay at home mothers every chance they get. If a woman wants to work, she should be able to do so, and she should make the same amount of money if she has the same qualifications and is working the same amount of time as her male counterparts. But a woman should also be allowed to be a stay at home mother without people pushing her to work instead.

TLDR:
Anti-feminists - Women should only be home makers.
Feminists - Women should only cut red tape and never stoop to being a home maker.

rhiannon

06-02-2014, 05:07 PM

And where did I say that being overweight makes someone a "bad person"? It's quite obvious that this tactic is used to elicit guilt and pity and is used as a fallback for those unable to obtain a mate. This is basic evolutionary psychology at best. These women are elevated to a position where they're not allowed to be criticised when it is quite obvious that intentionally losing any care for your body image is unhealthy both psychologically and internally. They also intentionally degrade the institutions of marriage and the idea of procreating when such institutions are intrinsically beautiful and essentially the objective point of living.

Rhiannon, these are women who complain about not being able to obtain a mating partner. Gee, I wonder why, when they're so overweight they cannot bear their own image. Thinking highly of yourself is important and this is reflected in your physical-appearance and attitude. These women feel estranged because they treat themselves like dirt.

It's relevant. These women see a healthy body-image as a construct of patriarchal society despite that theory being nonsensical, constructed from the mind of someone who hates themselves and all around them.

A healthy body image is a reflection of one's attitude to the world and it is crucial in deciding whether one will obtain a mating partner. These women are considered ugly as they consider themselves ugly and disregard any opinion on 'beauty' as contorted patriarchal dominance precisely because such theories of beauty consider them unattractive.

God where do I start lol.

As a male yourself, this is a topic that might be more difficult to get you to understand at all. Not to mention the analysis of this whole mess would take a long time. Suffice for now that I will tell you I can sort of see what you're getting at.....although I don't really agree with all of it. Fair enough?

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 05:10 PM

Dude, you live in England lol. You have no idea what it's like out here. I live in one of the most progressive of all states when it comes to Family Law. Women can and do pay child support....they would pay palimony too in situations where the man stayed home to care for the kids during the marriage. Plus, women now can serve in combat roles. We have yet to have a draft in any recent years, but it would be interesting to see (theoretically only mind you....because God I hate war and don't want this at all) what a draft now would mean.

Equal duties? Why is the raising of children not considered a "duty" It surely is! It's one of our most important duties as a species, in fact. Consider that along with your "equal duties" argument. Men can never share the burden of childbirth and what that does to a woman's overall physiology, either. Seems in your argument, women aren't given their equal credit due for the important things they have historically brought to the table....at least your reasoning doesn't appear to give any.

Equal choices and equal opportunities for both men and women, simple. I have no issue with how families divvy up workloads, childcare, employment, or whatnot....so long as they are given the right to make those choices in the first place :)
Rhiannon. You should know that I am Dutch. ;) But yes, legally speaking, only MEN get drafted, only MEN are expected to cough up alimony and child support. And most MEN lose divorce cases because there is a real legal bias towards women.

rhiannon

06-02-2014, 05:11 PM

Rhiannon. You should know that I am Dutch. ;)OMG is it you I've been talking to on this thread???? Awesome!!!

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 05:11 PM

OMG is it you I've been talking to on this thread???? Awesome!!!

Wakey wakey. :P

Aviator

06-02-2014, 05:12 PM

Dude, you live in England lol. You have no idea what it's like out here. I live in one of the most progressive of all states when it comes to Family Law. Women can and do pay child support....they would pay palimony too in situations where the man stayed home to care for the kids during the marriage. Plus, women now can serve in combat roles. We have yet to have a draft in any recent years, but it would be interesting to see (theoretically only mind you....because God I hate war and don't want this at all) what a draft now would mean.

Equal duties? Why is the raising of children not considered a "duty" It surely is! It's one of our most important duties as a species, in fact. Consider that along with your "equal duties" argument. Men can never share the burden of childbirth and what that does to a woman's overall physiology, either. Seems in your argument, women aren't given their equal credit due for the important things they have historically brought to the table....at least your reasoning doesn't appear to give any.

Equal choices and equal opportunities for both men and women, simple. I have no issue with how families divvy up workloads, childcare, employment, or whatnot....so long as they are given the right to make those choices in the first place :)

I think this is fine so long as women meet the physical standards of men without having the standards of men lowered. So far, not a single woman has been able to pass the Marine Corps Infantry Officer school.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 05:12 PM

rhiannon

06-02-2014, 05:12 PM

Rhiannon. You should know that I am Dutch. ;) But yes, legally speaking, only MEN get drafted, only MEN are expected to cough up alimony and child support. And most MEN lose divorce cases because there is a real legal bias towards women.
You totally caught me off guard lol. Was NOT expecting to see you :picard2:

Raven_

06-02-2014, 05:12 PM

I am all for equal rights. If that means equal duties too. So unless women are called up for the draft, so until women need to pay alimony and child support in divorce cases we are not going to talk about equal rights.

How did the Dutch version of the Internationale put it ? Ah yes:

Broeders hoort hoe gelijkheid spreekt:
Geen recht, waar plicht is opgeheven,
Geen plicht, leert zij, waar recht ontbreekt.

I personally would support some other form of service useful for society. Although it should considered not all countries are equally likely to engage in war.
Speaking of divorced parents and children, I don't agree either that a woman and not a father should always recieve custody rights. Also, a parent who did not recieve custody rights and has to pay alimony perhaps should have more say in how money get spent (i.e could cover child-related expenses himself directly).

But on a more serious note. Until the legal issues has been resolved we should not talk about equality.

(But yes, legally speaking, only MEN get drafted, only MEN are expected to cough up alimony and child support. And most MEN lose divorce cases because there is a real legal bias towards women.)

First equality needs to be enshrined in law. In fact the present law system violates article 1 of the Dutch Constitution but I am yet to hear feminists talk about that.

In my country men don't even fight for custody rights.....Lousy men!

rhiannon

06-02-2014, 05:15 PM

But on a more serious note. Until the legal issues has been resolved we should not talk about equality.

(But yes, legally speaking, only MEN get drafted, only MEN are expected to cough up alimony and child support. And most MEN lose divorce cases because there is a real legal bias towards women.)

First equality needs to be enshrined in law. In fact the present law system violates article 1 of the Dutch Constitution but I am yet to hear feminists talk about that.

So that's how it is in The Netherlands, right?

It's not like that where I live. However, I do not speak for other states. On the most part, the most progressive parts of the country in areas to do with marriage and family would be New England, California, and Washington State.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 05:16 PM

I personally would support some other form of service useful for society. Although it should considered not all countries are equally likely to engage in war.
Speaking of divorced parents and children, I don't agree either that a woman and not a father should always recieve custody rights. Also, a parent who did not recieve custody rights and has to pay alimony perhaps should have more say in how money get spent (i.e could cover child-related expenses himself directly).

I believe in total equality. Both father and mother should have legal access to the child and if one parent should try to use his/her influence to use the child as a weapon in divorce cases than that parent should have the child taken away - if need be by force by the bevoegd gezag (the appropriate authorities). Furthermore: I expect of a woman as much as any man that he or she does her duty for the country. So when the men get sent off to war (won't happen) I expect that the women will serve their time in the trenches just the same.

No equal duties means no equal rights. You can't have one without the other.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 05:17 PM

So that's how it is in The Netherlands, right?

It's not like that where I live. However, I do not speak for other states. On the most part, the most progressive parts of the country in areas to do with marriage and family would be New England, California, and Washington State.
Yes. It's still a bit backward and.. I should say "female-centric" (in that respect).

Unome

06-02-2014, 05:39 PM

Women were not allowed to vote. They couldn't divorce....but the man could divorce them. They couldn't even sign on the dotted line because they were essentially the man's property. This is how it was at the start of the 20th century.

Most women have no desire to go back to that.
But what about the minority of women who do, are they "less feminine" than other women?

If a woman wants to marry a man, and depend on his income, and head the house as mother, and not work… why should she be punished or rebuked for this desire?

This is the big problem with "feminism". It doesn't take into account the women who enjoy & support female privilege. Females are the privileged gender, why change this?

Raven_

06-02-2014, 05:41 PM

I believe in total equality. Both father and mother should have legal access to the child and if one parent should try to use his/her influence to use the child as a weapon in divorce cases than that parent should have the child taken away - if need be by force by the bevoegd gezag (the appropriate authorities). Furthermore: I expect of a woman as much as any man that he or she does her duty for the country. So when the men get sent off to war (won't happen) I expect that the women will serve their time in the trenches just the same.

No equal duties means no equal rights. You can't have one without the other.

I perfectly understand that in places like Israel there in an actual need of many soldiers, but a place like Netherlands...Unless you believe that another world war without radioactive / chemical weapons would happen.

Anyway, this 'discrimination' could be solved by giving privileges for men who served. Men would not lose anything as they will be drafted anyway. You are talking like an activist of men rights here, but in the same way I could respond by mentioning there are jobs like kindergarten teachers that men usually don't do. Such jobs are not held as a 'heroic' duty for society, but they are important neverthless.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 05:43 PM

I perfectly understand that in places like Israel there in an actual need of many soldiers, but a place like Netherlands...Unless you believe that another world war without radioactive / chemical weapons would happen.

Anyway, this 'discrimination' could be solved by giving privileges for men who served. Men would not loose anything as theya will be drafted anyway. You are talking like an activist of men rights here, but in the same way I could respond by mentioning there are jobs like kindergarten teachers that men usually don't do. Such jobs are not held as a 'heroic' duty for society, but they are important neverthless.

The last time we nearly disbanded our troops we were soon turned into a target for invasion (1940). Let's not make that mistake again, shall we ? And in times of equality between the two genders both men and women need to pull their weight. I am not a pacifist in any way, shape or form because it has proven not to work.

Raven_

06-02-2014, 05:53 PM

The last time we nearly disbanded our troops we were soon turned into a target for invasion (1940). Let's not make that mistake again, shall we ? And in times of equality between the two genders both men and women need to pull their weight. I am not a pacifist in any way, shape or form because it has proven not to work.

Only Putler would bother to start anothe huge war, imo. But even then. Since Russia's army is not very strong, higher chances it would drop some chemical / nuclear weapons on Europe. Actually I read somewhere that Amsterdam in particular could be chosen as a good candinate for being ' gays' capital' :D

Unome

06-02-2014, 05:54 PM

I respect traditional women and see that more feminine than a career-liberal woman who wants to see herself "equal" to men.

Because the true (conservative) feminist makes much more difficult decisions in life. She doesn't "choose a career". She chooses a man, a husband, a father. A traditional, conservative (preferably Catholic) woman builds a family. That is the most "feminine" thing a woman can do, and I respect/admire that so much. I support females like these, not "liberal feminists" who have hijacked what it means to be "feminine". This "equal rights" bullshit is crap.

How dare liberals attack conservative women like this?

As-if it is not a risk for a woman to love a man, depend on him, and that she ought to feel ashamed for this? And what does it mean for men, to attack men like this? That men ought to… do something else perhaps? Men should quit opening doors for women, and expect women to open doors for us?

That is a shift in privilege/entitlement/rights. It betrays the obvious and takes paint off The Truth. Truth is, females are privileged, and society enjoys privileging females, within a Patriarchal society. It's a good thing, traditional, conservative mindset.

Who, the fuck, would want to send females into a warzone or put females in the military??? That seems mentally insane to me. But I know who wants this… liberals preaching their crusade "human rights and equality". That's what you imply by equality: send women into war?

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 05:54 PM

Only Putler would bother to start anothe huge war, imo. But even then. Since Russia's army is not very strong, higher chances it would drop some chemical / nuclear weapons on Europe. Actually I read somewhere that Netherlands in particular could be chosen as a good candinate for being 'a gay capital' :D
Let's not risk anything these days. This is why I think that Europe, in general, should have a very strong defence force.

rhiannon

06-02-2014, 05:56 PM

I think this is fine so long as women meet the physical standards of men without having the standards of men lowered. So far, not a single woman has been able to pass the Marine Corps Infantry Officer school. Most won't ever pass. I agree that certain standards must be met. There are women that could do it, I bet. Hell, if I had trained for it as a young woman, back in my younger, stronger days, it's even possible I could met the physical standards for some of those things. I'm way past my prime now though :laugh:

Raven_

06-02-2014, 05:57 PM

Let's not risk anything these days. This is why I think that Europe, in general, should have a very strong defence force.

I wanted to add this to my previous post, but noticed you already have replied:

I am viewing this from a practical perspective.Your stance about women's conscription perhaps could be supported by the fact wars these days are heavily fought in urban areas meaning women and children become targets as well.

I agree with you when you say Europe, in general, should have a very strong defence force. Strong military may be seen as a useless expense by some, but strong military is what deters your enemies the most.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 06:00 PM

I wanted to add this to my previous post, but noticed you already have replied:

I am viewing this from a practical perspective.Your stance about women's conscription perhaps could be supported by the fact wars these days are heavily fought in urban areas meaning women and children become targets as well.
Also that. But the other reason is equality: you can't have equality if you absolve one half of society from doing their duty.

rhiannon

06-02-2014, 06:01 PM

But what about the minority of women who do, are they "less feminine" than other women?No. I don't think they're less feminine. However their choices shouldn't reflect on my choices. They can do whatever they want....but don't stomp on my liberty, please.

If a woman wants to marry a man, and depend on his income, and head the house as mother, and not work… why should she be punished or rebuked for this desire?Who said she ought be punished? Feminism in it's normal form doesn't punish women for wanting to be traditional, it just allows for women to also make nontraditional choices.

This is the big problem with "feminism". It doesn't take into account the women who enjoy & support female privilege. Females are the privileged gender, why change this?They're not privileged. Go look at the Middle East and tell me how "Privileged" women are :(

Unome

06-02-2014, 06:06 PM

Go look at the Middle East and tell me how "Privileged" women are :(
More privileged than in the West… what makes you believe I haven't looked?

Define "privilege". Does privilege mean security or freedom, and what do females, as a gender, demand more of???

Do you fight for the right to join the military and murder people in foreign nations? No, so watch your hypocrisy… males still do the dying in war, in the past, and still to this day.

Feminists need to avoid this aspect of "gender equality". Feminists ironically talk about gender equality, when it most conveniently suits them.

"I want my cake and eat it too" mentality.

Neanderthal

06-02-2014, 06:13 PM

More privileged than in the West… what makes you believe I haven't looked?

Define "privilege". Does privilege mean security or freedom, and what do females, as a gender, demand more of???

Do you fight for the right to join the military and murder people in foreign nations? No, so watch your hypocrisy… males still do the dying in war, in the past, and still to this day.

Feminists need to avoid this aspect of "gender equality". Feminists ironically talk about gender equality, when it most conveniently suits them.

"I want my cake and eat it too" mentality.

Inb4, world is violent because men made it like that. A world ruled by women would be much much better, with happiness, integration, freelove, etc, etc.

There's always an emotional rebuttal which premises in totally unnatural behavior in humans as no aggression, no hate, no envy, etc. Unnatural behavior that women somehow posses in their nature and men doesn't. It speaks of higher moral and 'spiritual' ground too, if you dig deep enough in those arguments. You should know this by now.

rhiannon

06-02-2014, 06:15 PM

More privileged than in the West… what makes you believe I haven't looked?Explain please how the stoning to death of that young woman in Pakistan for committing the major sin of marrying for love amounts to female privilege? Men can marry whoever they want over there....and more than one woman at that. Women can't do jack squat. That's not privilege.

Define "privilege". Does privilege mean security or freedom, and what do females, as a gender, demand more of???I don't think I want privilege per se....just equal opportunities for equal qualifications under the law. This is probably what most normal women want....and most of us aren't the maniacal feminazi type :)

Do you fight for the right to join the military and murder people in foreign nations? No, so watch your hypocrisy… males still do the dying in war, in the past, and still to this day.Women have fought in the trenches and died right alongside men. Women can go to combat now. Looks like they fought for just that...so I wouldn't call that hypocritical. As for me, I was ineligible to join the military when I wanted to, otherwise I would have. How about you?

Feminists need to avoid this aspect of "gender equality". Feminists ironically talk about gender equality, when it most conveniently suits them. Some do....but most don't.

"I want my cake and eat it too" mentality.Or double standard....of which both males and females partake in at times.

rhiannon

06-02-2014, 06:18 PM

Unome

06-02-2014, 06:19 PM

Inb4, world is violent because men made it like that. A world ruled by women would be much much better, with happiness, integration, freelove, etc, etc.

There's always an emotional rebuttal which premises in totally unnatural behavior in humans as no aggression, no hate, no envy, etc. You should know this by now.
Women, being the privileged gender, misunderstand and ignore that there are obvious limits to privilege.

An argument can be made to compare the privilege of 'Western' women with (Islamic) 'Eastern' women. And I encourage that debate/discussion anyday. Because what is the foundation of privilege? Is it freedom or security? It is security, to make choices, benefit from the good choice, and shift responsibility/blame from the bad choice. "To have my cake and eat it to" mentality: self-entitlement.

Women are the genetic inheritance of the world and biology. It is through women that genes pass into the future. Females choose which males will live on (survive) and which are pushed-out of existence: natural selection (sexual selection).

And then women have the courage to talk more about "privilege" as-if this (sexual) choice is not enough? Women want more. And this should be most expected. Because who deserves the most privilege? Who is most entitled in life?

I support female privilege. But there is a sacrifice here, the Military. Bloodshed, violence, war… crusades & jihads. What causes war? Magic? God? Allah? Random chance? Aren't wars fought over women, sometimes? Most of the time? Always?

Feminism is contradicted by war. Because while females fight for "gender equality", you do not see/hear them demand "equal access to the draft" or any such nonsense.

This simple fact proves the hypocrisy/contradiction. Feminists must avoid this point.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 06:19 PM

Women have fought in the trenches and died right alongside men. Women can go to combat now. Looks like they fought for just that...so I wouldn't call that hypocritical. As for me, I was ineligible to join the military when I wanted to, otherwise I would have. How about you?

In which wars, for which country ?

rhiannon

06-02-2014, 06:22 PM

In which wars, for which country ?

Afghanistan and Iraq. I don't know exactly when the law allowing for women to join actual infantry was passed, though

Here's an article (http://www.ibtimes.com/women-combat-now-its-official-they-were-already-fighting-1040702) if you're interested:

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 06:24 PM

Afghanistan and Iraq. I don't know exactly when the law allowing for women to join actual infantry was passed, though

There are VERY few countries that have drafted women during wartime (USSR and Israel). Women could serve as volunteers in numerous armies but usually only as auxiliaries. In the case of the Netherlands there has been one female soldier that got injured in Afghanistan and she was a volunteer. She lost her legs.

rhiannon

06-02-2014, 06:26 PM

There are VERY few countries that have drafted women during wartime (USSR and Israel). Women could serve as volunteers in numerous armies but usually only as auxiliaries. In the case of the Netherlands there has been one female soldier that got injured in Afghanistan and she was a volunteer. She lost her legs.
I only speak for the US. We seem to have more female participation in the military in general it seems....up to and including combat.

Graham

06-02-2014, 06:26 PM

Most Men here went to fight in wars & didn't have the vote up until mid 19th Century. You don't hear much on that.

In early-19th-century Britain very few people had the right to vote. A survey conducted in 1780 revealed that the electorate in England and Wales consisted of just 214,000 people - less than 3% of the total population of approximately 8 million.

In Scotland the electorate was even smaller: in 1831 a mere 4,500 men, out of a population of more than 2.6 million people, were entitled to vote in parliamentary elections.

Large industrial cities like Leeds, Birmingham and Manchester did not have a single MP between them, whereas 'rotten boroughs' such as Dunwich in Suffolk (which had a population of 32 in 1831) were still sending two MPs to Westminster.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/citizenship/struggle_democracy/getting_vote.htm

Neanderthal

06-02-2014, 06:35 PM

Anyway, I dislike these subjects because they invite to open generalizations, is if they were no women capable of going to war and kicking one's ass. I put myself as an example, I had to quit doing MMA some years ago because an injury, which was caused by a girl. Be it she couldn't calculate her strength enough or whatever, she almost fucked up my tendons. Exceptions don't make rules, but I find equally preposterous the 'women can't' premise as the 'woman can'.

I have been proposing equality of opportunities regardless of sex and race, without lowering any standard and with no privileges nor considerations of any kind. But no one is interested in solutions, they just keep fighting their imaginary sex wars and trying to turn everything around in their favor, instead of doing small steps forward.

Unome

06-02-2014, 06:39 PM

It's more interesting to ask "should women or not", first, before "can women?"

Should women be "equal" with men. No, I disbelieve so. The idea of women murdering people, in combat, seems disgusting to me, the lowest morality and moral system.

The only time a woman should be murdering anybody, is from inside her home, killing an intruder who trespasses on her property, who has the intent to harm her, her property, or her family/children…

The idea that liberals want to see females in combat, just disgusts & sickens me to the deepest part of my soul. This is the logical conclusion of "feminism".

And feminists will lose that fight, I guarantee.

Unome

06-02-2014, 06:43 PM

Should women kill, in war, for the sake of proving gender equality and liberal crusader feminist ideals?

Is the ideology worth the price of blood? I say no, not worth it in my opinion. Liberals are wrong on this.

Raven_

06-02-2014, 06:48 PM

Feminism is contradicted by war. Because while females fight for "gender equality", you do not see/hear them demand "equal access to the draft" or any such nonsense.

This simple fact proves the hypocrisy/contradiction. Feminists must avoid this point.

Women are only 'privileged' in a way that they can choose whether they want to serve. However, a bigger issue regarding women and serving is discrimination (bullying and sexual harassment) when they are serving. If rules needed to prevent this get implemented, I am sure there are enough upset men... I know it's the case in USA and it's army does seem to have strict rules. But I have no idea how men there feel about it. Anyway, what I wanted to say is that men themselves view serving as something not entirely suitable for women, at least many of them. Altough, as I mentioned, conscripting women may not be necesary, nor useless depending on a situation.

Unome

06-02-2014, 06:52 PM

Let's simplify this discussion:

Should women be in the military?

If yes then why?

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 06:59 PM

Let's simplify this discussion:

Should women be in the military?

If yes then why?
Yes. Because they are citizens who have rights (to sign if they want to) and duties (to be drafted if need be).

Unome

06-02-2014, 07:07 PM

Yes. Because they are citizens who have rights (to sign if they want to) and duties (to be drafted if need be).
Rights are entitlements, not choices.

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 07:07 PM

A little wall of text:

"Don’t get me wrong — feminism has done a lot of great things for the world in the past. The feminist movement has definitely brought almost total equality to women in the Western parts of the world, and that is of course an astounding and brilliant achievement. Sexism and inequality towards women does still occur, but it’s much rarer and it’s thankfully looked-down upon by any rational, civilised human-being nowadays, as well as the law. The world is definitely on women’s side – and thank heavens that it is, because sexism and inequality towards women is, naturally, fucking disgusting.

But the feminist movement is not quite as relevant these days. Sure, fight cases of inequality that happen, something should be done about those matters. But seeking gender equality by focusing on the issues of only one gender? Doesn’t that in itself sound a little messed up? Even the term ‘feminist’ comes across that way; instead, why not claim you’re an activist for equal rights? Call yourselves ‘genderists’? Extreme-feminists are an easy target and I’d like to think most sensible people find them appalling and ridiculous – hating men for being men is fucking silly shit. If for some reason you do agree with extreme feminism, I’d genuinely love to hear from you to hear you out on what you have to say. But even general feminists – heck, people in general – will make ridiculous, sexist remarks against men, all the while complaining about how sexist men are.

‘Men are all pigs’, ‘typical men’? Yeah, if you’ve ever said anything along those lines and meant it, take a long, hard think for a moment. Don’t complain about generalisations and sexism by generalising and being sexist. Sexism can exist against men too – I understand it doesn’t offend men quite so much as they’ve not led a past of being oppressed – but stop acting like you’re a minority. Stop treating yourself like you’re a victim just because of your gender. Stop acting like you’re owed something in life for your gender. Gender equality means equality, not superiority."

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 07:10 PM

Rights are entitlements, not choices.

Exactly and this is why you seek to deny them their duties because you want to deny them their rights. What makes you different from one those desert dwellers, those cultural enrichers ? Do tell me.

Unome

06-02-2014, 07:10 PM

Either you are born with natural rights, or not, Lawspeaker, so which is it?

How is a right also a choice? You don't choose what you're born with. So you're wrong.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 07:12 PM

Either you are born with natural rights, or not, Lawspeaker, so which is it?

How is a right also a choice? You don't choose what you're born with. So you're wrong.

Answer the question: what. makes. you. different. from. one. of. those. cultural. enrichers. slash. desert. dwellers ?

Maleficent

06-02-2014, 07:16 PM

"Men are all pigs. Women are equal to men." - Feminists

Awesome. Feminists lose at their own game by calling themselves pigs. xD

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 07:16 PM

Awesome. Feminists lose at their own game by calling themselves pigs. xD

That one is bloody hilarious. I have to admit. It's because I am for equality that I hate feminism as much as I hate MRA's.

Unome

06-02-2014, 07:18 PM

Exactly and this is why you seek to deny them their duties because you want to deny them their rights. What makes you different from one those desert dwellers, those cultural enrichers ? Do tell me.
Because rights come from men, not gods and mysticism.

Aviator

06-02-2014, 07:19 PM

From a technical standpoint, if something can be taken away from you, it's not really a right. More of a privilege.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 07:20 PM

Because rights come from men, not gods and mysticism.

Wrong again.

Unome

06-02-2014, 07:23 PM

Wrong again.
Prove that I'm wrong.

Show me your "rights", can you?

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 07:24 PM

Prove that I'm wrong.

Show me your "rights", can you?
Read your own declaration of independence.

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 07:25 PM

La Misse

06-02-2014, 07:32 PM

Remember Industrial Revolution?
Women with full rights to work as hard as men do.
Everybody equally worthless.
Isn't it perfect?

If I was a woman I would rather stay home and take care of my family than work all the time like those male corpofaggots do.

They need €€€ this is why they work. There is no women who would prefer to work than sleep till 9:00, be home=safe, meet her friends and enjoy the life.

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 07:34 PM

They need €€€ this is why they work. There is no women who would prefer to work than sleep till 9:00, be home=safe, meet her friends and enjoy the life.

But feminists want everybody to work equally hard, becase we are all the same, right?
Ergo, feminists aren't fighting for you or any other women, they are fighting for themselves and for their crussade against what they perceive as male opressors.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 07:37 PM

They need €€€ this is why they work. There is no women who would prefer to work than sleep till 9:00, be home=safe, meet her friends and enjoy the life.

Not the women I know, thanks.

Unome

06-02-2014, 07:43 PM

Read your own declaration of independence.
And a social contract is the basis of rights???

Then I'm correct; because men created this contract among men for men.

Why would rights apply to those outside of the contract, let alone "humanity"?!

Do you deny that your rights come from God? This is your belief & morality yes?

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 07:45 PM

Not the women I know, thanks.

So brainwash is already done, the question is: do your women still resemble women or maybe rather... men?
Mesculine woman is not for me, thanks.
Hell, I myself am not even thinking about my career either, I guess people nowadays get brainwashed so heavily they care only about MONEY MONEY MONEY and SOCIAL STATUS, damit.

Unome

06-02-2014, 07:45 PM

They need €€€ this is why they work. There is no women who would prefer to work than sleep till 9:00, be home=safe, meet her friends and enjoy the life.
Observe how Lawspeaker avoids this inconvenient truth!

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 07:46 PM

And a social contract is the basis of rights???

Then I'm correct; because men created this contract among men for men.

Why would rights apply to those outside of the contract, let alone "humanity"?!

Do you deny that your rights come from God? This is your belief & morality yes?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life,_liberty_and_the_pursuit_of_happiness). That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed;

Men in those days was used to denote human beings in general.

La Misse

06-02-2014, 07:47 PM

But feminists want everybody to work equally hard, becase we are all the same, right?
Ergo, feminists aren't fighting for you or any other women, they are fighting for themselves and for their crussade against what they perceive as male opressors.

When you say "feminists" you mostly mean these sluts who protest while they show their naked body?
Well, I never understood what are they trying to show, ignorance or boobs? :lol:
But I think that women should be payed by the employeers close or at the same level as males.
Think about it, both are humans, both try hard to do their best but the male recieve more € why? There are mothers who their males drink, don't work, or even don't live anymore. They need money as much as males do.

Btw, even the word feminism have a bad reputation.

Dandelion

06-02-2014, 07:47 PM

Never got it why people think 'feminism' is a social ill. Most self-proclaimed feminist women I've met were wonderful women. Never meta rad fem, though, except on the internet.

La Misse

06-02-2014, 07:50 PM

Not the women I know, thanks.

The problem is why do you hang out with these women?

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 07:51 PM

The problem is why do you hang out with this women?

I don't want a slave as a friend (or more) but a self-respecting human being. Maybe that's why ?

Unome

06-02-2014, 07:52 PM

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed;
Forget about your creator and instead focus on this!

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 07:52 PM

Forget about your creator and instead focus on this!

You're a fan of aristocracy. A failed system which came crashing down in 1789 and 1918. 'Nuff said. History moved on.

Unome

06-02-2014, 07:54 PM

You're a fan of aristocracy. A failed system which came crashing down in 1789 and 1918. 'Nuff said. History moved on.
Going off-topic to avoid the obvious now??? ;)

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 07:54 PM

When you say "feminists" you mostly mean these sluts who protest while they show their naked body?
Well, I never understood what are they trying to show, ignorance or boobs? :lol:
But I think that women should be payed by the employeers close or at the same level as males.
Think about it, both are humans, both try hard to do their best but the male recieve more € why? There are mothers who their males drink, don't work, or even don't live anymore. They need money as much as males do.

Btw, even the word feminism have a bad reputation.

Sure, I agree with you on everything.
Those crazed sluts who show their body this way already give a good example of "self-respect", right?
They talk about treating women with respect, with which I fully agree, yet they behave like total sluts, interesting.
Of course both women and men should be paid equally, no doubt about that.

My point is: modern world promotes people who behave like rats, spend whole their precious lives on working for some giant corporations to buy things they dont even need, and now those funny femi-nazists want women to be enslaved this way too, just great.
You think my mother is feeling bad because she stays home and takes care of us? Lol, she is laughing at all those leftist idiots.

So, nowadays, a perfect woman has to take care not only of the house, like she always had to, but also work hard just like her husband.
A real paradise, no shit.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 07:55 PM

Going off-topic to avoid the obvious now??? ;)

Just taking you down on what you believe in. You can't have consent of the governed while being in favour of aristocracy. You can't have consent of the governed if one half of the population is a slave. Or with your system: 99 percent of the governed.

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 07:55 PM

You're a fan of aristocracy. A failed system which came crashing down in 1789 and 1918. 'Nuff said. History moved on.

This is offtop, what are you talking about?

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 07:57 PM

This is offtop, what are you talking about?

Just noting that his views are inconsistent. If you would browse back you would see that he would use this part of the quote:

[QUOTE][Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed;/QUOTE]

While being in favour of aristocracy. And also forgetting that under that system 99 percent of the population would be able to consent because they would be slaves and that when women are left out of the picture 50 percent of the population cannot consent as they would be slaves.

Dandelion

06-02-2014, 07:58 PM

Here's an example of what I see as a modern feminist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwJRFClybmk

I agree with almost everything she says. What does that make me? A male feminist?

Maleficent

06-02-2014, 07:59 PM

That one is bloody hilarious. I have to admit. It's because I am for equality that I hate feminism as much as I hate MRA's.

This is why in all technicalities we must support the most earliest forms of feminism(late 1800s era) which actually promoted a moderate non-extremist form of gender equality before the movement quickly degenerated and deteriorated into left-wing female supremacy.

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 07:59 PM

lawspeaker, why the hell are you thumbing me down?
stop going offtop or get the fuck out of my thread.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 08:00 PM

This is why in all technicalities we must support the most earliest forms of feminism(late 1800s era) which actually promoted a moderate non-extremist form of gender equality before the movement quickly degenerated and deteriorated into left-wing female supremacy.

I agree completely. That's the kind of feminism I am very supportive of but no rights without duties and no duties without rights.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 08:01 PM

lawspeaker, why the hell are you thumbing me down, you fucking idiot?
stop going offtop or get the fuck out of my thread, scum

Mind your tongue. The thumbs down was a mistake btw.

La Misse

06-02-2014, 08:04 PM

Sure, I agree with you on everything.
Those crazed sluts who show their body this way already give a good example of "self-respect", right?
They talk about treating women with respect, with which I fully agree, yet they behave like total sluts, interesting.
Of course both women and men should be paid equally, no doubt about that.

My point is: modern world promotes people who behave like rats, spend whole their precious lives on working for some giant corporations to buy things they dont even need, and now those funny femi-nazists want women to be enslaved this way too, just great.
You think my mother is feeling bad because she stays home and takes care of us? Lol, she is laughing at all those leftist idiots.

So, nowadays, a perfect woman has to take care not only of the house, like she always had to, but also work hard just like her husband.
A real paradise, no shit.

:) I agree with you. Indeed the real paradise is to be home, take care of your children, husband, cook...etc :D

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 08:12 PM

:) I agree with you. Indeed the real paradise is to be home, take care of your children, husband, cook...etc :D

Family is all that matters.

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 08:12 PM

Mind your tongue. The thumbs down was a mistake btw.

sorry then, those random thumbs down for nothing are irritating
and yeah, my tongue is quite harsh, I know :(

Rojava

06-02-2014, 08:13 PM

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 08:14 PM

sorry then, those random thumbs down for nothing are irritating
and yeah, my tongue is quite harsh, I know :(

It's a ridiculous system (I liked the thanking system better) and I probably effed up by mistake more than once.

Styrian Mujo

06-02-2014, 08:18 PM

bump

Ultra

06-02-2014, 08:19 PM

sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one

Male-Female Pay Gap Hasn’t Moved Much in Years

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2013/09/17/male-female-pay-gap-hasnt-moved-much-in-years/

IMHO it's still:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBLNYuKLYD0
Payment gap doesn't mean shit, when salaries are already equal. In the West women and men already get the same pay for the same work pretty much. If women willingly choose to work less hours and be less interested in career, investments and thus earn less then so be it. You can't fix those things even with heavy social engineering.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 08:19 PM

The problem is moreover that it's an economic necessity. Living wages and the breadwinner model have been killed off years ago so it wouldn't even be possible for a woman to stay at house without seriously damaging the economic standing of the household.

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 08:19 PM

It's a ridiculous system (I liked the thanking system better) and I probably effed up by mistake more than once.

yeah, I know. some guys give me thumbs down with no reason all the time, it would be better without this system tbh

oh, I am going offtop myself now, sorry

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 08:20 PM

yeah, I know. some guys give me thumbs down with no reason all the time, it would be better without this system tbh

oh, I am going offtop myself now, sorry

Please tell me I got the right one lol.

King Oskar

06-02-2014, 08:21 PM

Hmm.. What I don't get is, for every dude out there who's living the life of an abhorrent piggy mcmanslut, there's also a female.. It takes two to tango. And for every misogynistic guy, there's a man-hater out there as well. Being an asshole is not gender specific, and no gender has a monopoly on it, if you ask me.

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 08:22 PM

Please tell me I got the right one lol.

yeah :D

Styrian Mujo

06-02-2014, 08:27 PM

Feminism is good, but not to the point where females believe they are superior to males. Kurdish feminists for example (the idea that Kurdish females are able to fight side by side with their male comrades):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZJI5nJCIAE3kSz.jpg
Women are not made to fight or do any traditional male jobs or be artists,engeenires...their purpose is to bare children,to nurture and raise them until they can take care of themselves while the man must be hard-working to provide protection and all the material necessities for his family needs. It would be unwise to go against nature like the western Europeans have,we can see what gender equallity has done to their demographics and the traditional family system.

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 08:32 PM

I can imagine myself staying home with my wife, but I can't imagine her fighting or doing any male work.
Do I represent mental medieval?

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 08:34 PM

I can imagine myself staying home with my wife, but I can't imagine her fighting or doing any male work.
Do I represent mental medieval?

I for one am very happy that my better half is a busy body by nature. Particularly since "tweeverdieners" (litt: both the couple earning money) is an economic necessity. Where she comes from this is only just becoming reality.

armenianbodyhair

06-02-2014, 08:36 PM

http://imprim4tur.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/1602235198-bundeskanzlerin-angela-merkel-mimik-9.jpg

Would bang just to make berlusconi jealous

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 08:37 PM

Would bang just to make berlusconi jealous

Hahaha !

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 08:40 PM

I for one am very happy that my better half is a busy body by nature. Particularly since "tweeverdieners" (litt: both the couple earning money) is an economic necessity. Where she comes from this is only just becoming reality.

I got nothing against working women, but I am against them replacing men as a primary source of earning.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 08:41 PM

I got nothing about working women, but I am against them replacing men as a primary source of earning.

Well.. as for me. I believe in the breadwinner model but whether the woman or man is the main breadwinner is not too much of a big deal. As long as one parent can stay at home to watch over the kids. But with this present model one could argue that starting a family is heavily discouraged (financially speaking).

Rojava

06-02-2014, 08:45 PM

Women are not made to fight or do any traditional male jobs or be artists,engeenires...their purpose is to bare children,to nurture and raise them until they can take care of themselves while the man must be hard-working to provide protection and all the material necessities for his family needs. It would be unwise to go against nature like the western Europeans have,we can see what gender equallity has done to their demographics and the traditional family system.

So basically you're saying that the job of a woman is to stay at home and act as some sort of slave for her man? You are still living in the middle ages. Feudalism and traditionalism or whatever you call it has no place in society anymore. And that sort of tradition doesn't even work in many countries due to low wages.

The city of Kirkuk was liberated by an all-female Kurdish battalion. Females are proven to often be more effective than their male comrades in battle.

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 08:46 PM

Well.. as for me. I believe in the breadwinner model but whether the woman or man is the main breadwinner is not too much of a big deal. As long as one parent can stay at home to watch over the kids. But with this present model one could argue that starting a family is heavily discouraged (financially speaking).

Yeah, that makes sense.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 08:46 PM

So basically you're saying that the job of a woman is to stay at home and act as some sort of slave for her man? You are still living in the middle ages. Feudalism and traditionalism or whatever you call it has no place in society anymore. And that sort of tradition doesn't even work in many countries due to low wages.

The city of Kirkuk was liberated by an all-female Kurdish battalion. Females are proven to often be more effective than their male comrades in battle.

There is only one minor side note: prisoners of war. I think both you and I know what happens to captured women.

Unome

06-02-2014, 08:49 PM

There are no inconsistencies in my argument.

You probably will agree that government is justified by the consent of the governed. But your focus on the source of rights, is flawed. If rights are derived from men, not god, then you have no reason for your beliefs.

So again your error becomes obvious, just admit that you believe God is the source of "human rights"…

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 08:50 PM

Unome

06-02-2014, 08:56 PM

How can you justify government if the bulk of the "governed" are basically enslaved ? Your argument is completely flawed.
You have not yet considered the possibility that some people, perhaps a minority of course, prefer slavery over freedom ~ because there is security in slavery.

For example a criminal in jail still enjoys a bed and constant supply of food. While deprived of his "freedom", he still has his security.

Where is the source of this security? You admitted this already. Rights are security.

And freedom is at odds with security, therefore at odds with rights. You overlook this discrepancy…

I do not… because I explained it. Men provide the rights (therefore provide the security). For whom? For women, for the sake of women.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 08:58 PM

You have not yet considered the possibility that some people, perhaps a minority of course, prefer slavery over freedom .
You're officially an idiot. "Preferring slavery over freedom".

Styrian Mujo

06-02-2014, 08:58 PM

So basically you're saying that the job of a woman is to stay at home and act as some sort of slave for her man? You are still living in the middle ages. Feudalism and traditionalism or whatever you call it has no place in society anymore. And that sort of tradition doesn't even work in many countries due to low wages.

The city of Kirkuk was liberated by an all-female Kurdish battalion. Females are proven to often be more effective than their male comrades in battle.
You as a commie should know that gender equallity serves only the modern capitalist sytem furthermore the traditional family system is natural and it is not as "opressive" to the females as you think infact I think it is more free than females working 8 hours per day.

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 09:01 PM

Family system oppresive to the females.
Hard working system proper for females.
Leftist logic level over 9k.

Aviator

06-02-2014, 09:01 PM

White Europeans need to start having more children, which in turn might create a higher demand for stay at home parents.

Neanderthal

06-02-2014, 09:03 PM

I can imagine myself staying home with my wife, but I can't imagine her fighting or doing any male work.
Do I represent mental medieval?

'Neo-Machos' would call you a faggot just for saying that. For them working in a office and playing stupid social games is actually comparable to hunting and gathering. ('And I told supervisor Smith: - I won't do it! do it yourself!- wow i'm so alpha.') :lol:

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 09:04 PM

White Europeans need to start having more children, which in turn might create a higher demand for stay at home parents.

You're from America. Excuse me but what do you know about Europe ? Did you know that Europe has:

1) A very high population density.

2) Just had a babyboom during the 1950s until 1980s ?

Did you also know that the Netherlands f.i has close to 17 million inhabitants on a space of just over the size of Rhode Island ?

Did you also know that the Netherlands could support between 8 to 10 million inhabitants ?

Where did you intend on letting those large families live, work, go to school, play ? And how did you plan on feeding them ?

Styrian Mujo

06-02-2014, 09:06 PM

You're officially an idiot. "Preferring slavery over freedom".

I understand why you can't relate,you are a Nordic-Germanic person you were born to rule and not to serve. Northern Europeans are known for being freedom-loving adventurous entrepreneurs and great explorers.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 09:07 PM

I understand why you can't relate,you are a Nordic-Germanic person you were born to rule and not to serve. Northern Europeans are known for being freedom-loving adventours entrepreneurs and explorers.

Exactly. And do you know what Germanics did with tyrants ? They butchered them. Or they ventured out. This is why we Germanics ended up as either free societies or as colonisers/immigrants/traders all across the world.

Aviator

06-02-2014, 09:08 PM

You're from America. Excuse me but what do you know about Europe ? Did you know that Europe has:

1) A very high population density.

2) Just had a babyboom during the 1950s until 1980s ?

Did you also know that the Netherlands f.i has close to 17 million inhabitants on a space of just over the size of Rhode Island ?

Did you also know that the Netherlands could support between 8 to 10 million inhabitants ?

I am well aware that my perspective is limited from here, but it's been pointed out to me by many members on here as well as friends and family in Europe that native birth rates are low, while non-Western immigrant ones are high. Native Europeans could have a slightly higher birthrate while deporting non-Westerners and still come out with lower population numbers.

I agree with you that over population is a huge issue in many places though, even here.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 09:12 PM

I am well aware that my perspective is limited from here, but it's been pointed out to me by many members on here as well as friends and family in Europe that native birth rates are low, while non-Western immigrant ones are high. Native Europeans could have a slightly higher birthrate while deporting non-Westerners and still come out with lower population numbers.

I agree with you that over population is a huge issue in many places though, even here.

Time for some figures. Dutch/Frisian population in the Netherlands: 13.5 million (out of 17 million).
Western and non-Western immigrants are keeping each other in relative balance by both being around 1.4 millionish.

So yes: here it is. We would be better off having fewer children while deporting most non-Western (those we don't need or who don't have ties to the locals) and (those we don't need or who don't have ties to the locals) Western immigrants.

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 09:16 PM

'Neo-Machos' would call you a faggot just for saying that. For them working in a office and playing stupid social games is actually comparable to hunting and gathering. ('And I told supervisor Smith: - I won't do it! do it yourself!- wow i'm so alpha.') :lol:

100% true, corpofag mentality is a serious disease nowadays.
Even if I find whole this hiphop culture funny, I find those tie-wearing monkeys - lawyers and other 'serious people' much more funny and hilarious as fuck.
Hey, look at me, I'm a businessman. serious stuff, such succes, such power, such wealth, such winning personality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

Aviator

06-02-2014, 09:17 PM

Time for some figures. Dutch/Frisian population in the Netherlands: 13.5 million (out of 17 million).
Western and non-Western immigrants are keeping each other in relative balance by both being around 1.4 millionish.

I don't know very much at all about the Netherlands in specific, you've got me there.

I'm mostly just frustrated that many propose the solution of Europeans having less children before the solution of deporting non-Whites (who tend to have much higher birth rates.) Once that's taken care of, other issues will become easier to focus on and solve. It's very well possible that the native Dutch may need to slowly lower their population to a sustainable level, but it seems like it would be more important to get rid of the faster growing invasive species first.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 09:19 PM

I don't know very much at all about the Netherlands in specific, you've got me there.

I'm mostly just frustrated that many propose the solution of Europeans having less children before the solution of deporting non-Whites (who tend to have much higher birth rates.) Once that's taken care of, other issues will become easier to focus on and solve. It's very well possible that the native Dutch may need to slowly lower their population to a sustainable level, but it seems like it would be more important to get rid of the faster growing invasive species first.

Also that is a bit outdated. Those immigrants are facing EXACTLY the same fiscal issues we are - never mind the housing shortage, never mind the high cost of living so their birthrates have plummeted over the years as well. The latest generation (from which quite a few marry native Dutch) have close to the same birth rate as we do.

http://www.stockmapagency.com/media/FPO_Images/Country/Modern/FPO_Nether_Pop.jpg

Aviator

06-02-2014, 09:26 PM

Also that is a bit outdated. Those immigrants are facing EXACTLY the same fiscal issues we are - never mind the housing shortage, never mind the high cost of living so their birthrates have plummeted over the years as well. The latest generation (from which quite a few marry native Dutch) have close to the same birth rate as we do.

That's a shame.

But you're saying that the birth rates of those who are not ethnically Dutch are no longer higher than the native's?

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 09:27 PM

That's a shame.

But you're saying that the birth rates of those who are not ethnically Dutch are no longer higher than the native's?
Not really anymore. I think it was something like 1.4 for us and for them it's 1.6. I remember there being an article in the newspaper about it but I can't find it.

StonyArabia

06-02-2014, 09:30 PM

Who gives a damn?

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 09:30 PM

You're lucky, Blonde: I found some 2013 figures (http://www.indexmundi.com/netherlands/demographics_profile.html).

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 09:30 PM

Who gives a damn?

...

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 09:32 PM

Who gives a damn?

You seem to.

Aviator

06-02-2014, 09:33 PM

You're lucky, Blonde: I found some 2013 figures (http://www.indexmundi.com/netherlands/demographics_profile.html).

Do you find it disturbing that only 80.7% of the population is Dutch?

StonyArabia

06-02-2014, 09:33 PM

...

Everyone has right to their views. Feminism was hijacked by some misandrist, but it's intention were noble and for the betterment of the human race.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 09:35 PM

Everyone has right to their views. Feminism was hijacked by some misandrist, but it's intention were noble and for the betterment of the human race.

I think most of us here would agree with that. Second-wave feminism had very little to do with women's rights anyway but more with Marxist dogma.

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 09:35 PM

Everyone has right to their views. Feminism was hijacked by some misandrist, but it's intention were noble and for the betterment of the human race.

So there seems to be plenty to talk about.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 09:36 PM

Do you find it disturbing that only 80.7% of the population is Dutch?

Not really. And it's not "only". Did you also see that 5 percent is EU and there are also expats in this country since this is a financial and trading hub. We have only been a trading and financial hub since the Middle Ages.

Dandelion

06-02-2014, 09:36 PM

Feminism isn't even hijacked IMO. It's just one marginal type of feminist that is misandrist. Most of these anti-feminist threads are nothing more than just tilting at windmills.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Don_Quixote_6.jpg

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 09:37 PM

Aviator

06-02-2014, 09:39 PM

Not really. And it's not "only". Did you also see that 5 percent is EU and there are also expats in this country since this is a financial and trading hub. We have only been a trading and financial hub since the Middle Ages.

You still have these numbers to deal with though: Indonesian 2.4%, Turkish 2.2%, Surinamese 2%, Moroccan 2%, Caribbean 0.8%, other 4.8%

Dandelion

06-02-2014, 09:41 PM

So the oracle has spoken, thank you. Everything is clear now, world is simple.

The 'feminist' quote of the OP is even an imaginary enemy, a metaphorical windmill so to speak. It doesn't affect our life in the slightest.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 09:41 PM

You still have these numbers to deal with though: Indonesian 2.4%, Turkish 2.2%, Surinamese 2%, Moroccan 2%, Caribbean 0.8%, other 4.8%

Indonesia and Suriname: two former colonies. The Carib is a colony. Most Indonesians are Indo-Dutch btw.

Turkish and Moroccans: the sooner most are gone the better.

Graus

06-02-2014, 09:42 PM

Never have been a fan of cultural marxism. Feminists and other ideologes are trying to destroy our culture. Nothing against equal opportunitys but against victim olympics on the other hand...

Aviator

06-02-2014, 09:43 PM

Indonesia and Suriname: two former colonies. The Carib is a colony. Most Indonesians are Indo-Dutch btw.

Turkish and Moroccans: the sooner most are gone the better.

Good to hear you say that last part. But who cares if the others were former colonies? Europe should be only for people of European blood.

StonyArabia

06-02-2014, 09:43 PM

I think most of us here would agree with that. Second-wave feminism had very little to do with women's rights anyway but more with Marxist dogma.

Indeed and most them hate and blame men for their own short comings, pretty disgusting people in general.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 09:47 PM

Good to hear you say that last part. But who cares if the others were former colonies? Europe should be only for people of European blood.

Don't be ridiculous. Don't tell a European who belongs here while you're not from Europe yourself, thank you.

And second: Indo-Dutch. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo_people#Dutch_and_English_in_Southeast_Asia_.2 817th_and_18th_century.29) Read for yourself. Should we start banning ministers and members of the Royal Family now because their families were in Indonesia and have mixed blood ?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Laurens_Jan_Brinkhorst_van_D66_-_NL-HaNA_Anefo_931-1206_WM376.jpg

http://www.kunstaandedijk.nl/_img/Literatuur/Van%20Dis/Adriaanvandis.png

http://zeeland.blog.nl/files/2011/10/prinses-laurentien-blog.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/Georgina_Verbaan.jpg

http://media.margriet.nl/m/m1nx9lpc6gyf.jpg

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 09:52 PM

They are counted as Indonesian because the Indo-Dutch are respected as a cultural subgroup within the Netherlands. Added to that would be the Ambonese.

Aviator

06-02-2014, 09:54 PM

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 09:56 PM

Are you not fully European by blood yourself?

Even if I wasn't. These people have done much more for this country than you have. Look up KNIL and colonial government in the Indies and then come back to me. In this country disrespecting Indo's is generally not appreciated at all and will earn you scorn and derision from just about everyone. These people BLED for this country.

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 09:56 PM

The 'feminist' quote of the OP is even an imaginary enemy, a metaphorical windmill so to speak. It doesn't affect our life in the slightest.

It wasn't meant to provoke a debate, it's rather humorous. Possibly it doesn't affect our life much, but will be soon.
By the way, I am the op.

Ewout

06-02-2014, 09:59 PM

Don't be ridiculous. Don't tell a European who belongs here while you're not from Europe yourself, thank you.

And second: Indo-Dutch. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo_people#Dutch_and_English_in_Southeast_Asia_.2 817th_and_18th_century.29) Read for yourself. Should we start banning ministers and members of the Royal Family now because their families were in Indonesia and have mixed blood ?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Laurens_Jan_Brinkhorst_van_D66_-_NL-HaNA_Anefo_931-1206_WM376.jpg

http://www.kunstaandedijk.nl/_img/Literatuur/Van%20Dis/Adriaanvandis.png

http://zeeland.blog.nl/files/2011/10/prinses-laurentien-blog.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/Georgina_Verbaan.jpg

http://media.margriet.nl/m/m1nx9lpc6gyf.jpghttp://i60.tinypic.com/f1jldt.jpg I agree. The indonesians are lovely people. They're very pretty and have made a great contribution to Dutch culture and music. Without them we wouldn't have gotten this far.

Unome

06-02-2014, 09:59 PM

You're officially an idiot.
I will accept this as your concession. :thumb001:

Dandelion

06-02-2014, 10:01 PM

It wasn't meant to provoke a debate, it's rather humorous. Possibly it doesn't affect our life much, but will be soon.
By the way, I am the op.

Of course, got that. However people do cringe at the word 'feminist' and equate it to man-hating radfems and cultural Marxism etc... That is an idea many people ascribe to.
I personally think they are being drama queen about it and are imagining a far influential imaginary enemy. A fight against windmills so to speak. Also, most women who do call themselves 'feminist' are very pro-male rights, pro-sexuality and normal healthy feminine-behaving females.

Of course, that's what I think. I know many people keep on seeing feminism (a few feminist women) as the greatest danger to civilisation.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 10:01 PM

Those Indo's came back after defending their country 1) against the Japanese. 2) against communist rebel scum. I am proud to say I had a grandfather that was send there to fight alongside the KNIL.

Vorpal

06-02-2014, 10:03 PM

Of course, got that. However people do cringe at the word 'feminist' and equate it to man-hating radfems and cultural Marxism etc... That is an idea many people ascribe to. I personally think they are being drama queen about it and are imagining a far influential imaginary enemy. A fight against windmills so to speak. Also, most women who do call themselves 'feminist' are very pro-male rights, pro-sexuality and normal healthy feminine-behaving females.

People gotta have something to talk / moan about.

Aviator

06-02-2014, 10:04 PM

Even if I wasn't. These people have done much more for this country than you have. Look up KNIL and colonial government in the Indies and then come back to me. In this country disrespecting Indo's is generally not appreciated at all and will earn you scorn and derision from just about everyone. These people BLED for this country.

I merely reiterate what I hear from European nationalists in multiple countries. Whether you're from Germany, the Netherlands, America, Australia, or any other traditionally white country, you shouldn't want to see the lands of your ancestors walked on by brown people.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 10:06 PM

I merely reiterate what I hear from European nationalists in multiple countries. Whether you're from Germany, the Netherlands, America, Australia, or any other traditionally white country, you shouldn't want to see the lands of your ancestors walked on by brown people.

European nationalists are, for the most part, a bunch of complete idiots that:

1) probably left school in the last grade of primary.

2) have an IQ of below 90.

Hardly the nationalist movement we need. King , Empire and Country. Without the King might go as well.

Ewout

06-02-2014, 10:07 PM

Those Indo's came back after defending their country 1) against the Japanese. 2) against communist rebel scum. I am proud to say I had a grandfather that was send there to fight alongside the KNIL.

They didn't want to secure the VOC at all. It was all about saving the great poople of indonesia

Aviator

06-02-2014, 10:09 PM

European nationalists are, for the most part, a bunch of complete idiots that:

1) probably left school in the last grade of primary.

2) have an IQ of below 90.

Hardly the nationalist movement we need. King , Empire and Country. Without the King might go as well.

I assume you dislike the message of this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR-lAGj_dlQ

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 10:09 PM

They didn't want to secure the VOC at all. It was all about saving the great poople of indonesia

It was about saving the Empire as a whole. Against communist scum. You should have paid more attention in school. Besides we had a job to do over there: look up Ethical Policy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Ethical_Policy)
The VOC has been dead since 1795. Something you could have learned in school.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 10:10 PM

I assume you dislike the message of this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR-lAGj_dlQ

Yes I do. Totally. Because they abuse a good cause for a bad cause. Fascism is a very bad cause.

Ewout

06-02-2014, 10:12 PM

It was about saving the Empire as a whole. Against communist scum. You should have paid more attention in school. Besides we had a job to do over there: look up Ethical Era.
The VOC has been dead since 1795. Something you could have learned in school.

I always fell asleep when it was about Indonesians. They're not black enough for my taste, besides the good old koolies ofcourse.http://i57.tinypic.com/2nu57p5.jpg

Ewout

06-02-2014, 10:15 PM

European nationalists are, for the most part, a bunch of complete idiots that:

1) probably left school in the last grade of primary.

2) have an IQ of below 90.

Hardly the nationalist movement we need. King , Empire and Country. Without the King might go as well.

Hmm yea i agree. The koelie's were always highly educated and hard workinghttp://i61.tinypic.com/512438.jpg and thus far more superior than the national socialists

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 10:16 PM

I always fell asleep when it was about Indonesians. They're not black enough for my taste, besides the good old koolies ofcourse.http://i57.tinypic.com/2nu57p5.jpg
Then you should have paid more attention in school. When the Japanese invaded in 1942 the Netherlands was still busy with the Ethische Politiek and they even had their own council (de Indische Volksraad). Things were just getting better when the Japanese invaded and killed over 100.000 Indonesians along with 25.000 Dutch (probably more.. we will never know). And then came the Bersiap and the rest of the nonsense. Those Indische Nederlanders and the other loyalists were good and honest men that defended Queen, Country and Empire against rebel-rousing scum.

What have you done for the country ? Nothing.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 10:17 PM

Hmm yea i agree. The koelie's were always highly educated and hard workinghttp://i61.tinypic.com/512438.jpg and thus far more superior than the national socialists

Even a coolie is better than a national socialist traitor. When our countrymen were dying fighting the Nazi's you lot sided with them. I think that every Nazi should still be tried and shot for treason.

Ewout

06-02-2014, 10:25 PM

Even a coolie is better than a national socialist traitor. When our countrymen were dying fighting the Nazi's you lot sided with them. I think that every Nazi should still be tried and shot for treason.

http://i61.tinypic.com/264gjys.png hubba hubba

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 10:27 PM

http://i61.tinypic.com/264gjys.png hubba hubba

So much love for the country, on paper, but who did you Nazi scum side with ? The invader. Traitor.

Ewout

06-02-2014, 10:31 PM

So much love for the country, on paper, but who did you Nazi scum side with ? The invader. Traitor.

O no, you got me all wrong. Take a look here: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?84711-Most-beautiful-interracial-couples and see how much love you and I have for our country.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 10:32 PM

O no, you got me all wrong. Take a look here: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?84711-Most-beautiful-interracial-couples and see how much love you and I have for our country.

Nazi's have no love for the country. What did you do for your country ? Hmm.. Exactly.

Ewout

06-02-2014, 10:34 PM

Nazi's have no love for the country. What did you do for your country ? Hmm.. Exactly.

I did all i could to promote race mixing, that would ultimately cause our country to be more healthy and culturally enriched.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 10:36 PM

I did all i could to promote race mixing, that would ultimately cause our country to be more healthy and culturally enriched.

What did you do for your country ? Did you go to war for it ? Nope. Those KNIL men did though. They died for it. While all you will ever do is sit here preaching NS propaganda.

Aviator

06-02-2014, 10:40 PM

Yes I do. Totally. Because they abuse a good cause for a bad cause. Fascism is a very bad cause.

The SDU is not fascist. You must be mixing up terminologies.

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 10:41 PM

The SDU is not fascist. You must be mixing up terminologies.

Or so they say.

Ewout

06-02-2014, 10:41 PM

What did you do for your country ? Did you go to war for it ? Nope. Those KNIL men did though. They died for it. While all you will ever do is sit here preaching NS propaganda.

Now tell me exactly what you've done for "your"country then? anyway, lekker pompen in dat zwarte zwien!

The Lawspeaker

06-02-2014, 10:43 PM

Now tell me exactly what you've done for "your"country then? anyway, lekker pompen in dat zwarte zwien!

I ask you again: what did you do for your country, little peasant boy ? You talk like one so you will be treated as one.

Did you go to war ? Did you write great literature ? Been a cabinet minister ? Did something the country needs ? No. None of that. All you do is sit here like a muppet spreading NS propaganda while national socialism killed well over 200.000 of your own countrymen ? Some Dutchman you are. I can't even consider an NS-traitor to be a fellow Dutchman. You aren't.

Ewout

06-02-2014, 10:44 PM

I ask you again: what did you do for your country, little peasant boy ? You talk like one so you will be treated as one.

Did you go to war ? Did you write great literature ? Been a cabinet minister ? Did something the country needs ? No. None of that. All you do is sit here like a muppet spreading NS propaganda while national socialism killed well over 200.000 of your own countrymen ? Some Dutchman you are. I can't even consider an NS-traitor to be a fellow Dutchman. You aren't. Yea, I suppose you've done all that:rolleyes: