Jomon mtDNA

[ButlerKing]

Pure Jomons didn't exist even when Yayoi arrived to Japan. Some Jomon groups were heavily mixed.


All these 3 Jomon groups have M7a, D1, N9b in different percentages with the 2nd group being the purest and most dominant


" In another study, ancient DNA recovered from 16 Jomon skeletons excavated from Funadomari site, Hokkaido, Japan was analyzed to elucidate the genealogy of the early settlers of the Japanese archipelago. Both the control and coding regions of their mitochondrial DNA were analyzed in detail, and 14 mtDNAs could be securely assigned to relevant haplogroups. Haplogroups D1a, M7a, and N9b were observed in these individuals, and N9b was by far the most predominant. The fact that haplogroups N9b and M7a were observed in Hokkaido Jomons bore out the hypothesis that these haplogroups are the (pre-) Jomon contribution to the modern Japanese mtDNA pool.[45] In another study of ancient DNA published by the same authors in 2011, both the control and coding regions of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) recovered from Jomon skeletons excavated from the northernmost island of Japan, Hokkaido, were analyzed in detail, and 54 mtDNAs were confidently assigned to relevant haplogroups. Haplogroups N9b, D4h2, G1b, and M7a were observed in these individuals, with N9b being the predominant one. "



Source :Adachi N, Shinoda K, Umetsu K, Kitano T, Matsumura H, Fujiyama R, Sawada J, and Tanaka M, "Mitochondrial DNA analysis of Hokkaido Jomon skeletons: remnants of archaic maternal lineages at the southwestern edge of former Beringia," Am J Phys Anthropol. 2011 Nov;146(3):346-60. doi:10.1002/ajpa.21561. Epub 2011 Sep 27.




http://i49.tinypic.com/wtjddy.jpg

N9b

68% in 1st Jomon group
60% in 2nd Jomon group
16% in 3rd Jomon group


M7a

7.9% in 1st Jomon group
36% in 2nd Jomon group
3.5% in 3rd Jomon group


Jomon mtDNA in Japanese and Okinawans ( M7a and N9b )


http://i49.tinypic.com/307t177.jpg



" Studies published in 2004 and 2007 show the combined frequency of M7a and N9b which are believed by some to be pre-jomon maternal markers to be at least 28% in Okinawans (7/50 M7a1, 6/50 M7a(xM7a1), 1/50 N9b), 17.6% in Ainus (8/51 M7a(xM7a1), 1/51 N9b), and 10% (97/1312 M7a(xM7a1), 1/1312 M7a1, 28/1312 N9b) to 17% (15/100 M7a1, 2/100 M7a(xM7a1)) in mainstream Japanese. "

Source: M. Tanaka, V. M. Cabrera, A. M. González et al. (2004), "Mitochondrial Genome Variation in Eastern Asia and the Peopling of Japan" [3]

So in Japanese Jomon mtDNA is 10 - 17% on average where as Jomon Y-DNA is 37%
In Okinawans Jomon mtDNA is 28% on average where as Jomon Y-DNA is 56%

[ButlerKing]

The Jomons and Ainu are much more complicated than I though :picard2:


There was never such as thing as pure blooded Jomon by the time Yayoi (ancestors of Japanese arrived ). Many Jomons were already pure Jomon in phenotype to half Jomon in phenotype. Ainu are quite close to the the original only many of them today have 20% Jomon blood but some are still 60-80%


Jomons racial features are: short broad noses with large nostrils, to long hook noses, with thicker lips and larger mouth, with round eyes. Hair is generally wavy to sometimes straight



Here a facial reconstruction of Jomon, they already existed before the Japanese invaded but this Jomon clearly has strong or noticeable Neo-mongoloid admixture.

http://www.ois-web.com/tourism_info/history_culture/minatogawajin/img/ph10.jpg

Mixed Jomon on the left, Pure Jomon on the right
http://www1.parkcity.ne.jp/garapagos/img/444.jpg

[ButlerKing]

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6268/jomonperiodbefore300ad0.jpg



Jomon female mtDNA might even be much higher in Japanese , Ainu, Okinawans. If Jomon group that interbreeded with Yayoi was more similar to the 3rd Jomon group



Haplogroup N9b, M7a are Jomon mtDNA and if we include D1 together makes up for 77% - 95% in 1st and 2nd ancient Jomon group, however the third ancient group has only 42% Jomon mtDNA, 50% Yayoi mtDNA, 8% unclassified with substantial frequencies of C3 in paternal Y-DNA but only 70% D2



Here is what the Jomons already looked liked when they interbreeded with Yayoi people

It was already a predominately Proto-Mongoloid (Jomon) with Neo-Mongoloid admixture ( Siberian Mongoloid)

http://www.d-laboweb.jp/event/report/img/img_130723_02.jpg

[1stLightHorse]

Interesting.

[ButlerKing]

Interesting.

It sure is, I though Ainu was 100% pure before mixing with Nivkhs but who would have though that even ancient Jomons (ancestors of Ainu) were already mixed ( despite being more purer than Ainu)

The pure 100% Jomon blood concept never existed at least not when the Yayoi (ancestors of Japanese) have arrived


1862 illustration of Ainu and Nivkhs
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Nivkhs_and_Ainu_men.jpg


Ainu have 12.5% to 25% C3 and 21.6% mtDNA Y which is typical of Nivkhs.


In a study by Tajima et al. (2004), two out of a sample of sixteen (or 12.5%) Ainu men have been found to belong to Haplogroup C-M217, which is the most common Y-chromosome haplogroup among the indigenous populations of Siberia and Mongolia.[47] Hammer et al. (2006) have tested a sample of four Ainu men and have found that one of them belongs to haplogroup C-M217.[49] Some researchers have speculated that this minority of Haplogroup C-M217 carriers among the Ainu may reflect a certain degree of unidirectional genetic influence from the Nivkhs, a traditionally nomadic people of northern Sakhalin and the adjacent mainland, with whom the Ainu have long-standing cultural interactions.[47]

I believe a a Neo-Mongoloid Siberian race similar to Nivkhs have contributed substantial neo-Mongoloid DNA to the Jomons explaining why the 3rd group Jomon have 50% mtDNA A, B, F ect and 30% C3 in Y-DNA

They even live right next the the Ainu today.

http://www.amoeba.com/admin/uploads/blog/Eric_B/Nivkh.jpg
http://www.russianlessons.net/russia/sakhalin/russia-sakhalin.gif

[ButlerKing]

GOD WHY IS IT SO CONFUSING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seems M7a is more common in some Jomon groups than other Jomon group and since Japanese, Ainu, Okinawans have higher mtDNA M7a this means their Jomon DNA contribution must have been similar to Jomon group with this genetic profile.


( 1st bar is obviously Japanese, 2nd bar is Okinawans )

25% M7a
5% N9b
38% D? :confused:

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/nara_suimeishi/imgs/9/f/9f49695e.jpg



I can only have this facial expression

http://st.depositphotos.com/1001911/1222/v/950/depositphotos_12221488-Headache-emoticon.jpg

[ButlerKing]

M7a is found in all Jomon, Ainu groups and in every Japanese, Okinawans groups however these types their M7a is 9x higher than N9b.

One Jomon group I've seen had 38% M7a but how do we explain the so much lower frequencies of N9b? could it be genetic drift? or perhaps few Jomon group with higher M7a were more populous than more Jomon groups with N9b but are nowhere as populous ? or could it be they were mainly descent from one Jomon group.


http://www.geocities.jp/ikoh12/honnronn4/004_08_1/mtDNA_nihonnrettou_no_3minnzoku.jpg

[ButlerKing]

WHAT THE HELL! So now we have Jomon groups who have only 10% M7a but 0% N9b?

Where as haplogroup N9a where descendants from Yayoi?


http://www.hm2.aitai.ne.jp/~kuensan/mtdna17.jpg

[Hexachordia]

Why are you so confused? do you expect pure jomons to be self-fertilizing hermaphrodite? , mtdna a b c f n m were originally with jomons and ainus. This is the fact about ugly asian females.

[ButlerKing]

I need a Japanese to help me. Language translator doesn't translate those charts, and there is nothing written underneath it to suggest what those Japanese words means.

I recongnized the word here means Jomon people, but why than they lack mtDNA N9b and have only 6% M7a, or could it be the rest were already Jomon mtDNA themselves. I guess Jomon mtDNA is as high as 30 - 50% in Japanese and Okinawans.

http://www.geocities.jp/ikoh12/honnronn4/004_08_3/kanntouno_jyoumonnjinn_nomi.jpg

I ask for any friendly Japanese to help me out please. I'm confused and trying to solve the mystery.

http://www.clipartbest.com/cliparts/dc8/5o9/dc85o9ebi.svg


send me a message to my inbox, friendly Japanese

[Hexachordia]

Face it, N9 is full mongoloid, she left your ancestor and arrived in Japan around 5000BC.

[ButlerKing]

Why are you so confused? do you expect pure jomons to be self-fertilizing hermaphrodite? , mtdna a b c f n m were originally with jomons and ainus. This is the fact about ugly asian females.

So than Jomon mtDNA is possibly 30 - 50 % in Japanese


M7a is found 36 - 38% in some Jomon, some are less with only 3.7% to 7.9%. It's found 17.9% in the Ainu.

M7a is very rare in Asians, they are found only in low frequencies. Koreans have 0.5% to 3.8% and Chinese 0%, but Koreans did intermarried with Japanese in the past


N9b is found 60-68% in Jomon but most of time only 2.9% in Ainu. N9b is also 0.5% in Koreans

[Hexachordia]

So than Jomon mtDNA is possibly 30 - 50 % in Japanese


M7a is found 36 - 38% in some Jomon, some are less with only 3.7% to 7.9%. It's found 17.9% in the Ainu.

M7a is very rare in Asians, they are found only in low frequencies. Koreans have 0.5% to 3.8% and Chinese 0%, but Koreans did intermarried with Japanese in the past

N9b is found 60-68% in Jomon but most of time only 2.9% in Ainu. N9b is also 0.5% in Koreans

Actually most important genetic data about chinese people is still kept secret, how do you know exactly about M7 distribution in China?

From wikipedia:
Haplogroup M7 [7] - found in East Asia, especially in Japan, southern China, Vietnam,[34] and Laos[30]

M7 has southeast asian origin, the most strange thing here is about their migration not its absence among some japanese ethnics.

Polynesians migration is still an unsolved mystery, you should read Graham Hancock.

[ButlerKing]

Actually most important genetic data about chinese people is still kept secret, how do you know exactly about M7 distribution in China?

Because this Japanese study of Chinese mtDNA and Chinese mtDNA in Japan shows 0% M7a.

"Mitochondrial DNA analysis of Hokkaido Jomon skeletons: remnants of archaic maternal lineages at the southwestern edge of former Beringia,



From wikipedia:

M7 has southeast asian origin, the most strange thing here is about their migration not its absence among some japanese ethnics.

Polynesians migration is still an unsolved mystery, you should read Graham Hancock.

M7a is different to M7b.

M7a is common only in Ainu, Japanese, Okinawans and ancient Jomons, it is very rare in southeast Asia. M7b definitely have Southeast Asian origin.

[Hexachordia]

Because this Japanese study of Chinese mtDNA and Chinese mtDNA in Japan shows 0% M7a.

"Mitochondrial DNA analysis of Hokkaido Jomon skeletons: remnants of archaic maternal lineages at the southwestern edge of former Beringia,



M7a is different to M7b.

M7a is common only in Ainu, Japanese, Okinawans and ancient Jomons, it is very rare in southeast Asia. M7b definitely have Southeast Asian origin.

Like O2a and O2b in ydna, they are separated by several thousand years of mutation, probably m7a is cold adapted. The ancestor of M7a is still in southeast Asia.

[ButlerKing]

Like O2a and O2b in ydna, they are separated by several thousand years of mutation, probably m7a is cold adapted. The ancestor of M7a is still in southeast Asia.

One hypothesis is Ainu ancestors came from today's southern Southeast Asia and migrated to todays South Japan from Okinawa islands


http://www.abroadintheyard.com/wp-content/uploads/Ryukyuan.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Like O2a and O2b in ydna, they are separated by several thousand years of mutation, probably m7a is cold adapted. The ancestor of M7a is still in southeast Asia.


1st group Yayoi

2nd group Japanese

3rd group Jomon

As you can see M7a, M7b, M10, exist in this Jomon group and Japanese but not Yayoi group ( Neo-Mongoloid ancestor of Japanese )


So if Japanese were result of these Jomon group mixing with Yayoi group, I estimate their Jomon mtDNA contribution is at 28% - 36% in Japanese people.


http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/nara_suimeishi/imgs/7/2/72ee4e98.jpg

[Hexachordia]

One hypothesis is Ainu ancestors came from today's southern Southeast Asia and migrated to todays South Japan


http://www.abroadintheyard.com/wp-content/uploads/Ryukyuan.jpg

Ynda c3 and d2 all have southeast asian origin, the subclades developed within 5000-8000 years. Like the case of Otzi man, his mtdna is almost extinct, probably representing an ancient subclade lost in war or disasters, but many people share the same maternal genetic ancestor with him from 8000Bc, genetic mutation never stops, spme ethnic under a certain envrioenment will develop unique subclades,maybe had lost to history or survived untill today like ainu and jomons.

From the case of Oetzi, we can see, only a few thousand yreas, unique to ethnic identity subclades may rise and vanish.


The first study: Researchers were able to analyze a segment of oetzi mitochondrial DNA in this study.

They determined that he belonged to the genetic group (called a haplogroup by DNA researchers) known as K, a group to which about 8 percent of modern Europeans belong. The K haplogroup has two lineages or sub-groups (called subhaplogroups) identified as K-1 and K-2. Researchers in the early study also determined that the Iceman belonged to the K-1 subhaplogroup.

This finding suggested that many people (who share the K-1 subhaplogroup) shared a common female ancestor with oetzi.

The second study (2008): The new study, according to biologist Franco Rollo of the University of Camerino, Italy, provides "the oldest complete human mitochondrial DNA sequence generated to date."

In this study, researchers retrieved a complete version of oetzi mitochondrial DNA. Although they, too, found that oetzi belonged to the K-1 subhaplogroup, the analysis went further. The K-1 subhaplogroup has three branches or clusters (K1a, K1b, and K1c--all found in the modern European population). The new study revealed that oetzi belonged to a previously unidentified cluster (now called K1ö, for oetzi).

According to researchers Rollo, as quoted on medicalnewstoday.com, "This doesn't simply mean that oetzi had some 'personal' mutations making him different from the others but that, in the past, there was a group - a branch of the phylogenetic tree - of men and women sharing the same mitochondrial DNA. Apparently, this genetic group is no longer present. We don't know whether it is extinct or it has become extremely rare." Another researcher, Martin Richards, a professor of biology at the University of Leeds in northern England, added, "Our research suggests that oetzi's lineage may indeed have become extinct."

This proves, only a few thousand years can develop many subclades for different cultures. Consider oetzis mtdna developed from the same ancestor with the modern european mtdna k1a-b-c, and this subclade disappeared 5300 ago, according to wiki:
It is the most common subclade of haplogroup U8,[3] and it has an estimated age of c. 12,000 years BP.[4]

We see, only in 5000 years, we had this unique subclade(not ancestral to K1a-b-c), and another 5000 years, we have k1a-b-c...

Lets apply this to M, the migration that separates M7a and M7b will not be too long.

[Hexachordia]

1st group Yayoi

2nd group Japanese

3rd group Jomon

As you can see M7a, M7b, M10, exist in this Jomon group and Japanese but not Yayoi group ( Neo-Mongoloid ancestor of Japanese )


So if Japanese were result of these Jomon group mixing with Yayoi group, I estimate their Jomon mtDNA contribution is at 28% - 36% in Japanese people.


http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/nara_suimeishi/imgs/7/2/72ee4e98.jpg

Do you have ancient yayoi mtdna? if dont, this is unfounded.

[ButlerKing]

Ynda c3 and d2 all have southeast asian origin, the subclades developed within 5000-8000 years. Like the case of Otzi man, his mtdna is almost extinct, probably representing an ancient subclade lost in war or disasters, but many people share the same maternal genetic ancestor with him from 8000Bc, genetic mutation never stops, spme ethnic under a certain envrioenment will develop unique subclades,maybe had lost to history or survived untill today like ainu and jomons.

From the case of Oetzi, we can see, only a few thousand yreas, unique to ethnic identity subclades may rise and vanish.



This proves, only a few thousand years can develop many subclades for different cultures. Consider oetzis mtdna developed from the same ancestor with the modern european mtdna k1a-b-c, and this subclade disappeared 5300 ago, according to wiki:

We see, only in 5000 years, we had this unique subclade(not ancestral to K1a-b-c), and another 5000 years, we have k1a-b-c...

Lets apply this to M, the migration that separates M7a and M7b will not be too long.


M7b and M7b2 is actually found highest in Taiwanese aborigine tribes called Seediq and other tribes but lower frequencies :rolleyes:

http://www.coffeecoffeeandmorecoffee.com/archives/seediq%20bale%201.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BcUN9XNFWxI/TnA6bvp5fEI/AAAAAAAAGu4/hOub2qkFqUQ/s1600/IMG_4209.JPG]
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1514/seedig3as.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Do you have ancient yayoi mtdna? if dont, this is unfounded.

The first bar is ancient Yayoi mtDNA found buried Japan. I wrote Yayoi in language translator and came with the same letters.

[ButlerKing]

Ynda c3 and d2 all have southeast asian origin,

Lets apply this to M, the migration that separates M7a and M7b will not be too long.

C3 is found highest frequencies in Mongolians, Buryats, Tungustic, North Koreans, Manchus


D2 is found only Japanese, Ainu, Jomon, Okinawans, and very little D2 in South Korea.

D2 in Japan is as low as 29% to as high as 56% although the average is 33% and 36%.


I find it strange that M7b is highest in people who I think also have connection with Jomon even though many Taiwanese aborigines are different to others. Others tribes paint on their mouths just like the Ainu women which is strange to me.

They are all pure Mongoloid too that existed more than 60,000 to 100,000 years ago before modern East Asian Mongoloid features started developing gradually.

http://i47.tinypic.com/xp3dkh.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/30iz5fn.jpg

[Hexachordia]

The first bar is ancient Yayoi mtDNA found buried Japan. I wrote Yayoi in language translator and came with the same letters.

What is the sample population? Are they sure they have enough sample, it is outrageous to claim m7a is absenct from ancient population given belonging to the same marco-race. Even mongoloid mtdna is in Europe in neolithic times.

This is crazy.

[Hexachordia]

C3 is found highest frequencies in Mongolians, Buryats, Tungustic, North Koreans, Manchus


D2 is found only Japanese, Ainu, Jomon, Okinawans, and very little D2 in South Korea.

D2 in Japan is as low as 29% to as high as 56% although the average is 33% and 36%.


I find it strange that M7b is highest in people who I think also have connection with Jomon even though many Taiwanese aborigines are different to others. Others tribes paint on their mouths just like the Ainu women which is strange to me.

They are all pure Mongoloid too that existed more than 60,000 to 100,000 years ago before modern East Asian Mongoloid features started developing gradually.

This is why I quoted lengthily from Oetzi, I know you are going to make ainu and jomon a paleolithic incident.

As I have shown, 5000 years is enough to develop a unique subclade. The unique Oetzi subclade proves it.

100 000 years mutation and migration by continental drift history is very fresh and warm bullshit.:bored:

[ButlerKing]

What is the sample population? Are they sure they have enough sample, it is outrageous to claim m7a is absenct from ancient population given belonging to the same marco-race. Even mongoloid mtdna is in Europe in neolithic times.

This is crazy.

Ancient Yayoi 78 samples

Japanese 1312 samples

Ancient Jomon 56 samples

Mongoloid mtDNA in Europe is very low to completely absent. Mongoloid Y-DNA Q and N in Europe is mostly in north and East, other parts is close to 0%.

[ButlerKing]

This is why I quoted lengthily from Oetzi, I know you are going to make ainu and jomon a paleolithic incident.

As I have shown, 5000 years is enough to develop a unique subclade. The unique Oetzi subclade proves it.

100 000 years mutation and migration by continental drift history is very fresh and warm bullshit.:bored:


So what? with your logic than R1a in Turkic is also Mongoloid since Kyrgyz R1a1-z93 is found only in mostly Mongoloid Turkic population.

[Hexachordia]

WHAT THE HELL! So now we have Jomon groups who have only 10% M7a but 0% N9b?

Where as haplogroup N9a where descendants from Yayoi?


http://www.hm2.aitai.ne.jp/~kuensan/mtdna17.jpg


Ancient Yayoi 78 samples

Japanese 1312 samples

Ancient Jomon 56 samples

Mongoloid mtDNA in Europe is very low to completely absent.

78 samples are not enough to determind distribution among ancient Japan as a whole, of course we may exclude Ryuku and Okinawa.

And yayoi migration is still being dealt as mythology in Japan, I guess they just automatically designated M7a free population as yayoi, what is the cultural background of each population?

[ButlerKing]

78 samples are not enough to determind distribution among ancient Japan as a whole, of course we may exclude Ryuku and Okinawa.

And yayoi migration is still being dealt as mythology in Japan, I guess they just automatically designated M7a free population as yayoi, what is the cultural background of each population?

Lol, than we can also say Y-DNA genetic studies is not enough to determine the distribution of Turkic and Tajik Y-DNA, or even Russians because most of the times their samples was either only 30 to 60 which is far lower than ancient Yayoi samples.

[Hexachordia]

So what? with your logic than R1a in Turkic is also Mongoloid since Kyrgyz R1a1-z93 is found only in mostly Mongoloid Turkic population.

Mutation from original caucasians in a few millania. :) Admixture and adaptation.

Tibetans developed ultra-violet resistant genes and oxygen saving genes. Tibetans are genetically unique enough to have their own tibetan subclade after living in Tibet for 3000 years.

[ButlerKing]

Mutation from original caucasians in a few millania. :) Admixture and adaptation.

Tibetans developed ultra-violet resistant genes and oxygen saving genes. Tibetans are genetically unique enough to have their own tibetan subclade after living in Tibet for 3000 years.


It's still Caucasoid origin even if it mutated in Siberia/Turkic homeland in Altay in 600 B.C


However if that's the case than one cannot even say central Asians have mostly true Caucasoid Y-DNA, because at least 10-20% of R1 in Caucasoid looking Turkic in Central Asia were contributed by 3/4 Mongoloid males similar to Kyrgyz including 30-40% by Mongolian C3, O3, Siberian Q, N, Tibetan D2.

So can say we central Asian Mongoloid paternal DNA is more than 50-60%?


R1a in mix Mongoloid and mostly Mongoloid Turkic men had already existed since the Pazyryk culture in Altay

http://www.russianlessons.net/russia/altai/russia-altai.gif

For example even south siberia predominately Mongoloid men R1a had married caucasoid women. Even in 300 BC the men with mostly R1a who married Caucasoid women were 3/4 Mongoloid.

"Craniological studies of samples from the Pazyryk burials revealed the presence of both Mongoloid and Caucasoid components in this population. [4] quoting G. F. Debets on the physical characteristics of the population in the Pazyryk kurgans, records a mixed population. The men would seem to be part Mongoloid and the women Europoid. [5] "



Historically Kyrgyz men had migrated to southern central Asia and married Uzbek women/Tajik women, some were result of kidnapping brides

This can still be seen today interracial marriage statistic by Kyrgyz men


" Among Kirgiz men living in Uzbekistan and married to non-Kirgiz women, 9.6% had married Russians, 25.6% Uzbeks, and 34.3% Tatars. Among Kazakh men in Uzbekistan, the structure of mixed marriages appeared as follows: 4.4% married Russians.[67] "


http://www.marksmayo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/DSC_0165.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1xlDeSLHsUE/TYD6qddqdAI/AAAAAAAAAFI/ynT1BeaK0IM/s1600/Ziola.jpg
http://c.ask.nate.com/imgs/qrsi.php/6150565/8230374/0/2/A/자밀라남자친구2.jpg

[Hexachordia]

Lol, than we can also say Y-DNA genetic studies is not enough to determine the distribution of Turkic and Tajik Y-DNA, or even Russians because most of the times their samples was either only 30 to 60 which is far lower than ancient Yayoi samples.

From wiki:
The Yayoi period (弥生時代, Yayoi jidai?) is an Iron Age era in the history of Japan traditionally dated 300 BC to AD 300.[1] It is named after the neighborhood of Tokyo where archaeologists first uncovered artifacts and features from that era. Distinguishing characteristics of the Yayoi period include the appearance of new pottery styles and the start of an intensive rice agriculture in paddy fields. Techniques in metallurgy based on the use of bronze and iron were also introduced in this period. A hierarchical social class structure also emerged in this period. The Yayoi followed the Jōmon period (13,000–400 BC) and Yayoi culture flourished in a geographic area from southern Kyūshū to northern Honshū.

Yayoi people is loosely defined by new pottery cultures that emerged since 300BC, the problem left is to see, which mtdna is absent before 300 or 500BC, if none, yayoi people essentially shared the same mtdna with jomon and ainu. At least, the origin of yayoi is still not established historically, how can one say yayoi people genetically were absent from Japan before 300BC? Maybe they had been in Japan for some millania without distinguishing themself culturally. The cultural emergence of yayoi is not equal to physical emergence, the two may be several thousand years apart, and we can not be sure yet. After all the recent history of Yayoi is a new anthropological theory, not a recorded history, yayois genetic profile is to be misinterpreted by limited personal understanding of japanese history.

[ButlerKing]

From wiki:
The Yayoi period (弥生時代, Yayoi jidai?) is an Iron Age era in the history of Japan traditionally dated 300 BC to AD 300.[1] It is named after the neighborhood of Tokyo where archaeologists first uncovered artifacts and features from that era. Distinguishing characteristics of the Yayoi period include the appearance of new pottery styles and the start of an intensive rice agriculture in paddy fields. Techniques in metallurgy based on the use of bronze and iron were also introduced in this period. A hierarchical social class structure also emerged in this period. The Yayoi followed the Jōmon period (13,000–400 BC) and Yayoi culture flourished in a geographic area from southern Kyūshū to northern Honshū.

Yayoi people is loosely defined by new pottery cultures that emerged since 300BC, the problem left is to see, which mtdna is absent before 300 or 500BC, if none, yayoi people essentially shared the same mtdna with jomon and ainu. At least, the origin of yayoi is still not established historically, how can one say yayoi people genetically were absent from Japan before 300BC? Maybe they had been in Japan for some millania without distinguishing themself culturally. The cultural emergence of yayoi is not equal to physical emergence, the two may be several thousand years apart, and we can not be sure yet. After all the recent history of Yayoi is a new anthropological theory, not a recorded history, yayois genetic profile is to be misinterpreted by limited personal understanding of japanese history.


Maybe because they were Koreans who didn't have M7a? :picard1: why do you think the genetics of Koreans and Japanese are so similar, they even look exactly the same.


Facial reconstruction of Yayoi people. DNA of Yayoi is 100% most similar to Koreans being O2b and O3

http://i49.tinypic.com/21bjbkp.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/10ck7ps.jpg
http://kumamoto-rosegarden.cocolog-nifty.com/photos/uncategorized/2011/06/06/imgp7042.jpg
http://abbkbb.up.d.seesaa.net/abbkbb/bw_uploads/DSC03164_R.jpg%3Fd%3Da0
http://www.kahaku.go.jp/special/past/japanese/ipix/5/img/5_07_02.jpg
http://blog-imgs-41.fc2.com/k/a/p/kapahashi/20090614041316d33.jpg
http://art42.photozou.jp/pub/472/326472/photo/50519974.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Hexachordia, you seem to be interested as much as I am.

I invite you to discuss in this thread which explains the racial features of Jomon and Ainu. They are really a fascinating race, a ancient Mongoloid so old and are the ones to survive, including the Taiwanese aborigines and Native Americans/Amerindians. The Taiwanese aborigines really do look like Amerindians.


http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?127930-Ainu-vs-Veddas-strong-similarity/page4

[JeanBaMac]

haplogroup N9b is strongly related to Siberian haplogroup Y. Haplogroup M7a to haplogroup M7b (common in East Asia and Southwest Asia). In fact Jomon people were just Mongoloid people, they have nothing to do with Caucasians.

[Black Wolf]

So basically then modern day Japanese people are mainly a mixture between native Jomon people and Yayoi Neolithic farming migrants while the Ainu are now also mixed but have more Jomon DNA overall than ethnic Japanese correct?

[Murri]

Haplogroup D related to Jomon people should be well over 70% in Hokkaido and over 60% in the Tohoku regions, it was stated that Abe no Hirafu battled Emishi Jomon like people who were assimiliated to the Yamato society, while Hokkaido was rended familiar to the Yamato world in the 16th century, you can see 90% of toponyms in Hokkaido are in Ainu, despite the population has been Japanized

Haplogroup O is well above 80% in Northern Kyushu and over 60% in the Nara plain, Shikoku and the initial Yamato territories.

It is believed Yamato people came from China, crossed the Yangtze river and colonized initially Northern Kyushu and Nara plain where Yayou tombs were found

HG O3 is common amongst Han Chinese but HG O2b1 is found only amongst Japanese and very few Koreans, standing at 22% in modern day Japan maybe it is the HG of the initial Yamato people

[ButlerKing]

Haplogroup D related to Jomon people should be well over 70% in Hokkaido and over 60% in the Tohoku regions, it was stated that Abe no Hirafu battled Emishi Jomon like people who were assimiliated to the Yamato society, while Hokkaido was rended familiar to the Yamato world in the 16th century, you can see 90% of toponyms in Hokkaido are in Ainu, despite the population has been Japanized

Haplogroup O is well above 80% in Northern Kyushu and over 60% in the Nara plain, Shikoku and the initial Yamato territories.

It is believed Yamato people came from China, crossed the Yangtze river and colonized initially Northern Kyushu and Nara plain where Yayou tombs were found

HG O3 is common amongst Han Chinese but HG O2b1 is found only amongst Japanese and very few Koreans, standing at 22% in modern day Japan maybe it is the HG of the initial Yamato people


Haplogroup D2 in Tohaku regions is 39% last time I checked but not sure about Hokkaido. There is estimated 200,000 assimilated Ainu who became Yamato in Hokkaido. If Hokkaido really have such high D2 this proves again that Y-DNA really make up a very small percentage of your overall DNA. Jomon mtDNA in Hokkaido Yamato is 37%.

Hokkaido Yamato people have 70% Jomon Y-DNA and 37% Jomon mtDNA and Kyrgyz have 63% R1a and 43% Caucasian mtDNA yet the Hokkaido people look far more Mongoloid than Kyrgyz, in fact they look no different to Chinese and Koreans.

Compare this Indian women on the right will all of them.

http://edu.med.hokudai.ac.jp/megmen/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2015/03/%E9%9B%86%E5%90%88%E5%86%99%E7%9C%9F.jpg

[johen]

Here is anthropology map, which explains the relationship among manchuria, korean, yayoi, kofun and jomon.

https://s14.postimg.org/5fz6an2ld/Capture_1.png


see the gene pool map by chinese scholar(2011) together

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0029502.g001

And Razib Khan's comment

The connections between coastal southern Korea and the western islands of Japan are well known. It seems like that the Yayoi people, who probably contributed the preponderance of the ancestry of modern Japanese, arrived in Kyushu approximate ~2,500 years ago. And were originally a group within the Korean peninsula. Over the past 2,000 years Korea has gone through a process of ethnic-linguistic homogenization during the ethnogenesis of the modern Korean nation, but it seems possible that the original group(s) which gave rise to the Yayoi existed in southern Korea to facilitate contact between the islands and the peninsula into the historical era.

[Murri]

In the Tohoku region since Abe no Hirafu's expedition the Emishi of the local area, Mutsu, Dewa and as far as Kanto plain were heavily assimiliated into Yamato society and they started using Japanese names and surnames, many Japanese records speak of Tohoku and partially Kanto plain people being 90% assimiliated local emishi, carriers of D2

Hokkaido was firstly settled by an O2 carriet Yamato clan called Matsumae, after the Meji restoration it is stated that 70%+ of the population are nothing else but japanized Ainu who took Japanese names and surnames.

Despite being changed in the last century 80% of the toponyms in Hokkaido are in Ainu language, Sapporo the largest city of the island is one, you have many Ainu based language toponyms in Tohoku and upper Kanto too.

[Murri]

Here is anthropology map, which explains the relationship among manchuria, korean, yayoi, kofun and jomon.

https://s14.postimg.org/5fz6an2ld/Capture_1.png


see the gene pool map by chinese scholar(2011) together

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0029502.g001

And Razib Khan's comment

A theory places the Yayoi in Southern China and not in Korea, after invasions these people cross the Yangtzee river and initially arrive in northern Kyushu, eradicating the Jomon completely and later move into Nara and north-central Shikoku establishing the initial Yamato territories.

HG O2b1 is present in 24% of Japanese males and only 8% of Korean males, this HG is totally absent in Chinese, Manchu or other East Asian populations, many scholars link O2b1 to the Yayoi who founded Yamato state.

[ButlerKing]

In the Tohoku region since Abe no Hirafu's expedition the Emishi of the local area, Mutsu, Dewa and as far as Kanto plain were heavily assimiliated into Yamato society and they started using Japanese names and surnames, many Japanese records speak of Tohoku and partially Kanto plain people being 90% assimiliated local emishi, carriers of D2

Hokkaido was firstly settled by an O2 carriet Yamato clan called Matsumae, after the Meji restoration it is stated that 70%+ of the population are nothing else but japanized Ainu who took Japanese names and surnames.

Despite being changed in the last century 80% of the toponyms in Hokkaido are in Ainu language, Sapporo the largest city of the island is one, you have many Ainu based language toponyms in Tohoku and upper Kanto too.

The Emishi were said to be Ainu and Half Ainu/Yayoi.

Emishi don't exist anymore. Emishi looking people is basically 0% in Tohoku and Kanto ad only a very few claim descendants of Emishi



Kazuhiko YOSHIDA, descendant of Emishi, the only few who claim Emishi but he look about as Emishi as a Korean does.

http://www.kokusai.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp/career-program/activity/img/2014-e-c.jpg

[ButlerKing]

There is nothing uniquely different about them to other Japanese this includes Chinese, Koreans, Mongolians.

Tohoku people
https://www.directrelief.org/wp-content/uploads/Japan-3-yr-girls1-600x399.png

Kanto people
http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xd/127470142.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=F13A1F9190F0093660CDB93D85B5F0419284A3686B5985ED 1C4FE48FFA07838A12F7AE5F8C09136F

[Murri]

Northern Kyushu remains the less or not affected area by Jomonic HG D2 genetics, Kyushu itself has low HG D2(20%) but the northern area is probably 90%+ HG O

[johen]

A theory places the Yayoi in Southern China and not in Korea, after invasions these people cross the Yangtzee river and initially arrive in northern Kyushu, eradicating the Jomon completely and later move into Nara and north-central Shikoku establishing the initial Yamato territories.

HG O2b1 is present in 24% of Japanese males and only 8% of Korean males, this HG is totally absent in Chinese, Manchu or other East Asian populations, many scholars link O2b1 to the Yayoi who founded Yamato state.

https://heritageofjapan.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/image7.jpg
https://heritageofjapan.wordpress.com/just-what-was-so-amazing-about-jomon-japan/1-temp-from-africa-to-east-asia-the-tale-of-migration-and-origins-emerges-from-our-mitochondria-dna/origins-of-the-jomon-jomon-connections-with-the-continent-and-with-todays-japanese/who-are-the-ainu-people/new-research-establishes-that-native-okinawans-and-hokkaidos-ainu-share-genetic-characteristics-that-pre-date-yayoi-arrivals/

1. As far as I know, yayoi came to japan thru the following route. so they might be ancient korean or chinese. if they came from china, modern japanese genes should have been close to modern chinese.

2. There is a word "Nara" in Korea, which means "country"

3. Farmers and their languages - Jared Diamond
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__OzG6ePuAzI/TNFJRlZfhZI/AAAAAAAAAeU/FntXnApaI5o/s1600/farmandlan.JPG


7. Japanese. Around 400 B.C., intensive rice agriculture, new pottery styles, and new tools, all based on Korean models, appeared on the southwestmost Japanese island of Kyushu near Korea and spread northeast up the
Japanese archipelago.
Genes and skeletons of the modern Japanese suggest that they arose as a hybrid population between arriving Korean rice farmers and a prior Japanese population similar to the modern Ainu and responsible
for Japan’s earlier Jomon pottery. Modern southwest-to-northeast gene clines in Japan and DNA extracted from ancient
skeletons support this interpretation (59, 60). Japanese origins would thus rival Bantu origins as the most concordant and unequivocal example of an agricultural expansion, were it not for the flagrant discordance of the linguistic
evidence. If Korean farmers really did become dominant in Japan as recently as 400 B.C., one might have expected the modern Japanese and Korean languages to be as closely similar as other languages that diverged at such a recent date (e.g., German and Swedish), whereas their relationship is in fact much more distant.
The likely explanation is language replacement in the Korean homeland. Early Korea consisted of three kingdoms with distinct languages. The modern Korean language is derived from that of the ancient Korean kingdom of Silla, the ingdom that unified Korea. However, the now-extinct language of one of the two ancient Korean kingdoms
that Silla defeated, Koguryo, was much more similar to Old Japanese than is Sillan or modern Korean (61). Thus, a Koguryo-like language may have been spoken by the Korean farmers arriving in Japan, may have evolved into modern Japanese, and may have been replaced in Korea itself by Sillan that evolved into modern Korean.

-I show all Anthropology, archaeology, genetics data.