Northern Italians

[Lucinho]

How do they score in 23andme and other labs?

[Lucinho]

nobody?

[Sikeliot]

In the most simplified manner possible; some affinity toward Central Europe and significantly less West Asian than southern Italians. They are similar to southern French, although slightly more West Asian than them but not much.

[Lucinho]

In the most simplified manner possible; some affinity toward Central Europe and significantly less West Asian than southern Italians. They are similar to southern French, although slightly more West Asian than them but not much.

Can u post some results?

[curupira]

These are Dodecad k12b results. The Dodecad calculator was developed by a Greek (Dienekes), and it is one of the most useful tools in my opinion (you can read about it here: http://dodecad.blogspot.com.br/2012/01/k12b-and-k7b-calculators.html). You can see the genetic distance of Northern Italians to other groups, and compare it to that of other Italian groups.

Northern Italians

DodecadOracle(c(4.5, 0, 0.7, 0, 44, 22, 0, 0, 5.8, 0, 22.9, 0), k=82)
[,1] [,2]
[1,] "North_Italian" "0"
[2,] "N_Italian_D" "3.5071"
[3,] "TSI30" "8.3899"
[4,] "Tuscan" "10.4355"
[5,] "Baleares_1KG" "10.8217"
[6,] "O_Italian_D" "12.2221"
[7,] "Galicia_1KG" "13.4179"
[8,] "Extremadura_1KG" "14.2773"
[9,] "C_Italian_D" "14.2955"
[10,] "Murcia_1KG" "14.6925"
[11,] "Andalucia_1KG" "14.9345"
[12,] "Portuguese_D" "15.4848"
[13,] "Spaniards" "15.574"
[14,] "Castilla_Y_Leon_1KG" "15.8767"
[15,] "Cataluna_1KG" "16.7227"
[16,] "Spanish_D" "17.2406"
[17,] "Canarias_1KG" "17.3133"
[18,] "Castilla_La_Mancha_1KG" "17.9179"
[19,] "Valencia_1KG" "17.9215"
[20,] "Cantabria_1KG" "18.1717"
[21,] "Aragon_1KG" "19.0735"
[22,] "French" "21.0561"
[23,] "French_D" "21.6705"
[24,] "Greek_D" "22.1253"
[25,] "Sicilian_D" "23.0712"
[26,] "S_Italian_Sicilian_D" "23.1881"
[27,] "Bulgarians_Y" "24.4679"
[28,] "Romanians" "24.6534"
[29,] "Bulgarian_D" "25.102"
[30,] "Ashkenazi_D" "27.1015"
[31,] "Ashkenazy_Jews" "27.5764"
[32,] "Mixed_Germanic_D" "29.3658"
[33,] "Morocco_Jews" "30.3509"
[34,] "Kent_1KG" "30.4033"
[35,] "Sephardic_Jews" "30.5064"
[36,] "Cornwall_1KG" "30.842"
[37,] "Dutch_D" "31.0688"
[38,] "English_D" "31.2207"
[39,] "CEU30" "31.2658"
[40,] "German_D" "31.689"
[41,] "British_D" "31.786"
[42,] "Hungarians" "32.2492"
[43,] "British_Isles_D" "32.4279"
[44,] "Pais_Vasco_1KG" "33.3207"
[45,] "Irish_D" "33.7562"
[46,] "Argyll_1KG" "33.999"
[47,] "Orcadian" "34.2682"
[48,] "Orkney_1KG" "34.8142"
[49,] "Sardinian" "34.8442"
[50,] "French_Basque" "38.1766"
[51,] "Cypriots" "41.2398"
[52,] "Norwegian_D" "41.2547"
[53,] "Turkish_D" "42.1214"
[54,] "Swedish_D" "42.9096"
[55,] "Turks" "44.8138"
[56,] "Lebanese" "45.6775"
[57,] "Nogais_Y" "46.2016"
[58,] "Syrians" "47.1039"
[59,] "Jordanians" "48.3879"
[60,] "Polish_D" "48.8416"
[61,] "Turkmens_Y" "49.0271"
[62,] "Algerian_D" "49.2853"
[63,] "Ukranians_Y" "49.447"
[64,] "Palestinian" "49.6441"
[65,] "Druze" "49.7017"
[66,] "Kumyks_Y" "50.0691"
[67,] "Uzbekistan_Jews" "50.4695"
[68,] "Egyptans" "51.1294"
[69,] "Tajiks_Y" "51.4403"
[70,] "Kurds_Y" "51.6111"
[71,] "Mixed_Slav_D" "51.672"
[72,] "Kurd_D" "51.7808"
[73,] "Iranian_D" "51.8252"
[74,] "Iranians" "52.4054"
[75,] "Uzbeks" "52.7189"
[76,] "Armenian_D" "52.8973"
[77,] "Iraq_Jews" "53.3418"
[78,] "Assyrian_D" "53.3817"
[79,] "Georgia_Jews" "53.4198"
[80,] "Azerbaijan_Jews" "53.5379"
[81,] "Armenians_15_Y" "53.9087"

Tuscans

DodecadOracle(c(4.8, 0, 0, 0, 37.9, 18.7, 0.5, 0, 7.2, 0.5, 30.5, 0), k=82)
[,1] [,2]
[1,] "Tuscan" "0"
[2,] "TSI30" "2.3896"
[3,] "C_Italian_D" "4.7624"
[4,] "O_Italian_D" "6.1384"
[5,] "N_Italian_D" "9.985"
[6,] "North_Italian" "10.4355"
[7,] "Greek_D" "12.625"
[8,] "S_Italian_Sicilian_D" "13.5348"
[9,] "Sicilian_D" "13.586"
[10,] "Ashkenazi_D" "17.6649"
[11,] "Ashkenazy_Jews" "17.9025"
[12,] "Baleares_1KG" "20.8507"
[13,] "Bulgarians_Y" "21.0471"
[14,] "Bulgarian_D" "21.5465"
[15,] "Sephardic_Jews" "21.6222"
[16,] "Romanians" "22.0601"
[17,] "Morocco_Jews" "22.8193"
[18,] "Galicia_1KG" "23.1534"
[19,] "Extremadura_1KG" "23.6635"
[20,] "Murcia_1KG" "23.9422"
[21,] "Andalucia_1KG" "23.9758"
[22,] "Portuguese_D" "24.5813"
[23,] "Canarias_1KG" "24.7267"
[24,] "Castilla_Y_Leon_1KG" "25.6618"
[25,] "Spaniards" "25.6895"
[26,] "Cataluna_1KG" "26.8993"
[27,] "Spanish_D" "27.1801"
[28,] "Castilla_La_Mancha_1KG" "27.7519"
[29,] "Valencia_1KG" "27.9185"
[30,] "Cantabria_1KG" "28.3505"
[31,] "Aragon_1KG" "29.0424"
[32,] "French" "29.6604"
[33,] "French_D" "30.1647"
[34,] "Cypriots" "31.209"
[35,] "Turkish_D" "32.3325"
[36,] "Hungarians" "34.987"
[37,] "Turks" "35.2417"
[38,] "Mixed_Germanic_D" "36.2112"
[39,] "Lebanese" "36.8007"
[40,] "German_D" "36.8748"
[41,] "Dutch_D" "38.1525"
[42,] "Kent_1KG" "38.166"
[43,] "Syrians" "38.7322"
[44,] "English_D" "38.909"
[45,] "CEU30" "38.9111"
[46,] "Cornwall_1KG" "39.0355"
[47,] "Nogais_Y" "39.1897"
[48,] "Sardinian" "39.2018"
[49,] "British_D" "39.9296"
[50,] "Druze" "40.0322"
[51,] "Jordanians" "40.2237"
[52,] "British_Isles_D" "40.3161"
[53,] "Uzbekistan_Jews" "41.3399"
[54,] "Palestinian" "41.588"
[55,] "Kumyks_Y" "41.6251"
[56,] "Argyll_1KG" "41.6458"
[57,] "Irish_D" "41.7234"
[58,] "Orcadian" "42.1698"
[59,] "Orkney_1KG" "42.5921"
[60,] "Turkmens_Y" "42.8572"
[61,] "Armenian_D" "42.8845"
[62,] "Pais_Vasco_1KG" "43.1658"
[63,] "Kurds_Y" "43.3397"
[64,] "Georgia_Jews" "43.6685"
[65,] "Assyrian_D" "43.6826"
[66,] "Kurd_D" "43.7316"
[67,] "Iranian_D" "43.7955"
[68,] "Azerbaijan_Jews" "43.8467"
[69,] "Armenians_15_Y" "43.9624"
[70,] "Iraq_Jews" "44.0819"
[71,] "Armenians" "44.4789"
[72,] "Egyptans" "44.5744"
[73,] "Iranians" "44.9398"
[74,] "Samaritians" "45.5181"
[75,] "Iranian_Jews" "45.8747"
[76,] "Adygei" "46.815"
[77,] "Chechens_Y" "47.2852"
[78,] "Lezgins" "47.3406"
[79,] "French_Basque" "47.4256"
[80,] "Balkars_Y" "47.4781"
[81,] "Norwegian_D" "47.84"
[82,] "Tajiks_Y" "47.9105"



Sicilians

DodecadOracle(c(4.5, 0, 4.1, 0, 30, 11.9, 0.1, 0.7, 11.9, 0, 36.5, 0.2),k=82)
[,1] [,2]
[1,] "Sicilian_D" "0"
[2,] "S_Italian_Sicilian_D" "2.0372"
[3,] "Ashkenazi_D" "5.728"
[4,] "Ashkenazy_Jews" "6.1514"
[5,] "Sephardic_Jews" "8.5417"
[6,] "C_Italian_D" "9.14"
[7,] "Greek_D" "9.5525"
[8,] "Morocco_Jews" "11.3119"
[9,] "Tuscan" "13.586"
[10,] "O_Italian_D" "14.2681"
[11,] "TSI30" "15.023"
[12,] "Cypriots" "18.674"
[13,] "Turkish_D" "22.4515"
[14,] "N_Italian_D" "22.4562"
[15,] "North_Italian" "23.0712"
[16,] "Lebanese" "24.4963"
[17,] "Turks" "25.3839"
[18,] "Bulgarian_D" "25.5078"
[19,] "Bulgarians_Y" "25.5198"
[20,] "Romanians" "27.0797"
[21,] "Druze" "27.2584"
[22,] "Syrians" "27.3287"
[23,] "Jordanians" "28.2335"
[24,] "Palestinian" "29.5845"
[25,] "Uzbekistan_Jews" "30.6358"
[26,] "Armenian_D" "31.8251"
[27,] "Iraq_Jews" "32.1936"
[28,] "Georgia_Jews" "32.1969"
[29,] "Assyrian_D" "32.2557"
[30,] "Baleares_1KG" "32.3099"
[31,] "Azerbaijan_Jews" "32.472"
[32,] "Samaritians" "32.8393"
[33,] "Canarias_1KG" "32.9106"
[34,] "Armenians_15_Y" "33.0643"
[35,] "Egyptans" "33.7769"
[36,] "Armenians" "33.9813"
[37,] "Galicia_1KG" "34.0018"
[38,] "Murcia_1KG" "34.1322"
[39,] "Iranian_Jews" "34.1568"
[40,] "Extremadura_1KG" "34.1792"
[41,] "Andalucia_1KG" "34.499"
[42,] "Portuguese_D" "34.5936"
[43,] "Kurds_Y" "34.7438"
[44,] "Kumyks_Y" "35.0435"
[45,] "Nogais_Y" "35.0601"
[46,] "Kurd_D" "35.2036"
[47,] "Iranian_D" "35.6347"
[48,] "Castilla_Y_Leon_1KG" "36.4309"
[49,] "Iranians" "37.0236"
[50,] "Spaniards" "37.2466"
[51,] "Turkmens_Y" "37.8539"
[52,] "Spanish_D" "38.1709"
[53,] "Cataluna_1KG" "38.6322"
[54,] "Castilla_La_Mancha_1KG" "38.7692"
[55,] "Valencia_1KG" "39.4469"
[56,] "Adygei" "39.8786"
[57,] "Cantabria_1KG" "39.9153"
[58,] "Balkars_Y" "40.3194"
[59,] "Aragon_1KG" "40.3742"
[60,] "Bedouin" "40.64"
[61,] "Yemenese" "40.6711"
[62,] "North_Ossetians_Y" "41.1314"
[63,] "Chechens_Y" "41.3293"
[64,] "French" "41.4464"
[65,] "French_D" "41.7917"
[66,] "Lezgins" "42.3421"
[67,] "Hungarians" "43.0194"
[68,] "Algerian_D" "43.0421"
[69,] "Sardinian" "45.6668"
[70,] "Tajiks_Y" "46.5276"
[71,] "German_D" "46.5705"
[72,] "Mixed_Germanic_D" "46.9595"
[73,] "Uzbeks" "48.1134"
[74,] "Abhkasians_Y" "48.4185"
[75,] "Dutch_D" "48.9652"
[76,] "Kent_1KG" "49.3787"
[77,] "CEU30" "50.0421"
[78,] "English_D" "50.0437"
[79,] "Cornwall_1KG" "50.4189"
[80,] "Yemen_Jews" "51.0408"
[81,] "Georgians" "51.185"
[82,] "British_D" "51.2282"

Sardinians

DodecadOracle(c(0, 0, 2.6, 0, 70.5, 0, 0.1, 0, 5.8, 0, 20.9, 0),k=82)
[,1] [,2]
[1,] "Sardinian" "0"
[2,] "Andalucia_1KG" "27.8808"
[3,] "French_Basque" "29.5369"
[4,] "Aragon_1KG" "29.6189"
[5,] "Valencia_1KG" "29.9977"
[6,] "Castilla_La_Mancha_1KG" "30.0554"
[7,] "Murcia_1KG" "30.2762"
[8,] "Cantabria_1KG" "31.3616"
[9,] "Spaniards" "31.3772"
[10,] "Baleares_1KG" "32.0903"
[11,] "Castilla_Y_Leon_1KG" "32.151"
[12,] "Spanish_D" "32.1528"
[13,] "Pais_Vasco_1KG" "32.5507"
[14,] "Canarias_1KG" "33.0556"
[15,] "Extremadura_1KG" "33.9464"
[16,] "Cataluna_1KG" "34.1928"
[17,] "Galicia_1KG" "34.1991"
[18,] "North_Italian" "34.8442"
[19,] "Portuguese_D" "34.8643"
[20,] "N_Italian_D" "38.1997"
[21,] "TSI30" "38.3863"
[22,] "Tuscan" "39.2018"
[23,] "C_Italian_D" "41.5196"
[24,] "O_Italian_D" "44.1291"
[25,] "Sicilian_D" "45.6668"
[26,] "S_Italian_Sicilian_D" "45.8996"
[27,] "French" "47.4213"
[28,] "Morocco_Jews" "47.5453"
[29,] "French_D" "48.1393"
[30,] "Sephardic_Jews" "49.2268"
[31,] "Greek_D" "50.1997"
[32,] "Ashkenazi_D" "50.364"
[33,] "Ashkenazy_Jews" "51.231"
[34,] "Cornwall_1KG" "55.4284"
[35,] "British_D" "56.3811"
[36,] "Kent_1KG" "56.5052"
[37,] "English_D" "57.356"
[38,] "CEU30" "57.5103"
[39,] "Mixed_Germanic_D" "57.7731"
[40,] "British_Isles_D" "57.9036"
[41,] "Bulgarians_Y" "58.25"
[42,] "Irish_D" "58.4582"
[43,] "Dutch_D" "58.7907"
[44,] "Romanians" "58.9658"
[45,] "Orcadian" "59.0778"
[46,] "Bulgarian_D" "59.1776"
[47,] "Cypriots" "59.1804"
[48,] "Argyll_1KG" "59.4114"
[49,] "Orkney_1KG" "59.9426"
[50,] "Algerian_D" "61.0472"
[51,] "German_D" "62.6863"
[52,] "Moroccan_D" "65.1323"
[53,] "Turkish_D" "65.205"
[54,] "Hungarians" "65.4899"
[55,] "Lebanese" "65.7043"
[56,] "Syrians" "66.5019"
[57,] "Jordanians" "66.8934"
[58,] "Palestinian" "67.395"
[59,] "Druze" "67.5498"
[60,] "Turks" "67.9666"
[61,] "Egyptans" "68.4834"
[62,] "Norwegian_D" "68.7287"
[63,] "Moroccans" "69.3242"
[64,] "Samaritians" "71.2424"
[65,] "Swedish_D" "71.5508"
[66,] "Uzbekistan_Jews" "71.7075"
[67,] "Iraq_Jews" "71.8236"
[68,] "Assyrian_D" "72.1288"
[69,] "Armenian_D" "72.1616"
[70,] "Azerbaijan_Jews" "72.4082"
[71,] "Turkmens_Y" "73.6353"
[72,] "Armenians_15_Y" "73.6393"
[73,] "Georgia_Jews" "73.6641"
[74,] "Bedouin" "73.814"
[75,] "Kurd_D" "74.056"
[76,] "Iranians" "74.0793"
[77,] "Armenians" "74.1024"
[78,] "Kurds_Y" "74.1332"
[79,] "Iranian_Jews" "74.1455"
[80,] "Iranian_D" "74.3062"
[81,] "Nogais_Y" "74.4791"
[82,] "Yemenese" "75.2693"

These are Portuguese results for you to compare:

One from the Minho (in Portugal):


DodecadOracle(c(4.2, 0, 6, 0.4, 42.3, 25.9, 0, 1.4, 5.2, 0.8, 13.8, 0), k=82)

[1,] "Galicia_1KG" "7.278"
[2,] "Portuguese_D" "8.1713"
[3,] "Extremadura_1KG" "8.2565"
[4,] "Baleares_1KG" "8.5182"
[5,] "Castilla_Y_Leon_1KG" "10.5404"
[6,] "N_Italian_D" "10.8752"
[7,] "Murcia_1KG" "10.9234"
[8,] "North_Italian" "11.4983"
[9,] "Canarias_1KG" "11.5897"
[10,] "Cataluna_1KG" "12.083"
[11,] "Spanish_D" "12.1856"
[12,] "Spaniards" "12.3093"
[13,] "Andalucia_1KG" "13.5252"
[14,] "French" "14.2587"
[15,] "Cantabria_1KG" "14.2731"
[16,] "Castilla_La_Mancha_1KG" "14.3924"
[17,] "French_D" "14.552"
[18,] "Valencia_1KG" "15.0635"
[19,] "Aragon_1KG" "15.849"
[20,] "TSI30" "17.6187"
[21,] "O_Italian_D" "18.6545"
[22,] "Tuscan" "19.822"
[23,] "C_Italian_D" "22.3081"
[24,] "Mixed_Germanic_D" "22.49"
[25,] "Kent_1KG" "23.0575"
[26,] "Cornwall_1KG" "23.3397"
[27,] "English_D" "23.808"
[28,] "CEU30" "23.901"
[29,] "Dutch_D" "23.9111"
[30,] "British_D" "24.1694"
[31,] "British_Isles_D" "24.9106"
[32,] "German_D" "25.6982"
[33,] "Romanians" "25.9056"
[34,] "Irish_D" "26.0548"
[35,] "Argyll_1KG" "26.3742"
[36,] "Orcadian" "26.5552"
[37,] "Bulgarians_Y" "26.6269"
[38,] "Bulgarian_D" "26.944"
[39,] "Orkney_1KG" "27.1017"
[40,] "Hungarians" "28.1052"
[41,] "Greek_D" "29.1681"
[42,] "Pais_Vasco_1KG" "30.1075"
[43,] "Sicilian_D" "30.2078"
[44,] "S_Italian_Sicilian_D" "30.6046"
[45,] "Ashkenazi_D" "33.4688"
[46,] "Norwegian_D" "33.7583"
[47,] "Ashkenazy_Jews" "34.0357"
[48,] "Morocco_Jews" "35.4162"
[49,] "Swedish_D" "35.6744"
[50,] "French_Basque" "36.2447"
[51,] "Sephardic_Jews" "36.8368"
[52,] "Sardinian" "39.3547"
[53,] "Polish_D" "43.8325"
[54,] "Ukranians_Y" "45.312"
[55,] "Algerian_D" "45.522"
[56,] "Mixed_Slav_D" "46.945"
[57,] "Turkish_D" "48.3682"
[58,] "Cypriots" "48.685"
[59,] "Nogais_Y" "48.8555"
[60,] "Chuvashs" "49.6881"
[61,] "Russian_D" "50.0746"
[62,] "Belorussian" "50.0992"
[63,] "Mordovians_Y" "50.1946"
[64,] "Lebanese" "50.6182"
[65,] "Turks" "50.6428"
[66,] "Russian_B" "50.8259"
[67,] "Tajiks_Y" "50.8833"
[68,] "Russian" "51.0008"
[69,] "Turkmens_Y" "51.0697"
[70,] "Moroccan_D" "51.1141"
[71,] "Uzbeks" "51.474"
[72,] "Syrians" "51.8765"
[73,] "Jordanians" "52.5827"
[74,] "Egyptans" "53.0923"
[75,] "Palestinian" "53.8365"
[76,] "Kumyks_Y" "54.3903"
[77,] "Moroccans" "54.4914"
[78,] "Uzbekistan_Jews" "55.8929"
[79,] "Druze" "56.0452"
[80,] "Kurd_D" "56.1138"
[81,] "Iranian_D" "56.1902"
[82,] "Iranians" "56.21"

[Peyrol]

I would see how many of these samples are really pure ''north italians'' and not the usual mongrels south italian/somethin else which are the majority here in Northern Italy.

[curupira]

Dodecad Oracle k12b results of Napolitan to compare:


DodecadOracle(c(9.5, 0, 4.1, 0, 25.7, 14.6, 0.5, 0, 11.4, 0, 34.3, 0),k=82)
[,1] [,2]
[1,] "S_Italian_Sicilian_D" "7.1127"
[2,] "Sicilian_D" "7.5206"
[3,] "Ashkenazy_Jews" "8.5253"
[4,] "Ashkenazi_D" "8.9816"
[5,] "Greek_D" "9.9443"
[6,] "C_Italian_D" "11.2552"
[7,] "Sephardic_Jews" "11.3912"
[8,] "O_Italian_D" "13.4201"
[9,] "Morocco_Jews" "13.7084"
[10,] "Tuscan" "15.3909"
[11,] "TSI30" "16.483"
[12,] "Turkish_D" "19.4872"
[13,] "Cypriots" "20.2899"
[14,] "Turks" "21.8902"
[15,] "Bulgarian_D" "22.5018"
[16,] "N_Italian_D" "22.6654"
[17,] "Lebanese" "22.7352"
[18,] "Bulgarians_Y" "23.1879"
[19,] "Romanians" "24.1758"
[20,] "North_Italian" "24.2442"
[21,] "Syrians" "25.5707"
[22,] "Jordanians" "26.9468"
[23,] "Uzbekistan_Jews" "27.0183"
[24,] "Druze" "27.0732"
[25,] "Palestinian" "28.979"
[26,] "Kurds_Y" "29.6133"
[27,] "Georgia_Jews" "29.9035"
[28,] "Kumyks_Y" "29.9037"
[29,] "Kurd_D" "29.9671"
[30,] "Armenian_D" "30.1841"
[31,] "Iraq_Jews" "30.2366"
[32,] "Assyrian_D" "30.298"
[33,] "Iranian_D" "30.3135"
[34,] "Nogais_Y" "30.3626"
[35,] "Azerbaijan_Jews" "30.3689"
[36,] "Armenians_15_Y" "31.0382"
[37,] "Iranians" "31.59"
[38,] "Turkmens_Y" "31.6357"
[39,] "Iranian_Jews" "31.7951"
[40,] "Armenians" "32.6176"
[41,] "Baleares_1KG" "33.0661"
[42,] "Egyptans" "33.2812"
[43,] "Samaritians" "33.3769"
[44,] "Canarias_1KG" "33.6293"
[45,] "Extremadura_1KG" "34.3721"
[46,] "Galicia_1KG" "34.402"
[47,] "Portuguese_D" "34.735"
[48,] "Murcia_1KG" "35.0612"
[49,] "Andalucia_1KG" "35.6098"
[50,] "Adygei" "36.1771"
[51,] "Lezgins" "36.3963"
[52,] "Chechens_Y" "36.4139"
[53,] "Balkars_Y" "36.7841"
[54,] "Castilla_Y_Leon_1KG" "37.0941"
[55,] "North_Ossetians_Y" "37.5091"
[56,] "Spaniards" "37.9396"
[57,] "Spanish_D" "38.7427"
[58,] "Cataluna_1KG" "38.8524"
[59,] "Yemenese" "39.0973"
[60,] "Castilla_La_Mancha_1KG" "39.5789"
[61,] "Tajiks_Y" "39.6522"
[62,] "Hungarians" "39.8609"
[63,] "Bedouin" "39.8922"
[64,] "French" "39.9667"
[65,] "French_D" "40.1939"
[66,] "Valencia_1KG" "40.3113"
[67,] "Cantabria_1KG" "40.7113"
[68,] "Aragon_1KG" "41.3226"
[69,] "Algerian_D" "42.8192"
[70,] "Uzbeks" "43.3749"
[71,] "German_D" "43.5717"
[72,] "Mixed_Germanic_D" "44.1911"
[73,] "Dutch_D" "46.3106"
[74,] "Abhkasians_Y" "46.4193"
[75,] "Kent_1KG" "46.9779"
[76,] "CEU30" "47.5576"
[77,] "English_D" "47.5715"
[78,] "Cornwall_1KG" "48.1328"
[79,] "British_D" "48.8912"
[80,] "Bnei_Menashe_Jews" "49.2046"
[81,] "British_Isles_D" "49.2625"
[82,] "Georgians" "49.6165"
>

[Sikeliot]

Southern Italians on Oracle come up closest to Jews, other Italians, Greeks, Cypriots, and Near Easterners.

[Insuperable]

I would see how many of these samples are really pure ''north italians'' and not the usual mongrels south italian/somethin else which are the majority here in Northern Italy.

They are similar with the results posted by North Italians on TA.

[cally]

23andme example: Thread (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?113591-fla88-s-results)

[Peyrol]

They are similar with the results posted by North Italians on TA.

Alzo Zero (him or another lombard guy, can't remember who) scored 80% italian, 15% french and german and 5% eastern euro, while Lombardista match between orcadians and scotts.
Very diverse results as you can see.
It depends by single persons...

[Insuperable]

Alzo Zero (him or another lombard guy, can't remember who) scored 80% italian, 15% french and german and 5% eastern euro, while Lombardista match between orcadians and scotts.
Very diverse results as you can see.
It depends by single persons...

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lup972VNBW1qbteh7o4_400.gif

[Peyrol]

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lup972VNBW1qbteh7o4_400.gif

Well, ok, he score indian and iranian.
And also puertorican and dominican, and why not even khoisanoid...

[Äijä]

Alzo Zero (him or another lombard guy, can't remember who) scored 80% italian, 15% french and german and 5% eastern euro, while Lombardista match between orcadians and scotts.
Very diverse results as you can see.
It depends by single persons...

What are his Y and MtDNA?

[Peyrol]

What are his Y and MtDNA?

I can't remember about Also zero, but Lombardista's thread are everywhere and you can easily find one of them :laugh:

Btw he scored a litte west asian if i remember well.

[Peyrol]

What are his Y and MtDNA?

EDIT. here some of Lombardista's threads


http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?99023-Lombard-s-results


http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?99327-R1b1a2a1a2b-PF6570-S28-U152

[Peyrol]

Lombardista's clusters and distances (he's a full blooded lombard but with some tuscan/central italian ancestors)


Italy
1.6%
United Kingdom
0.7%
Spain
0.3%
Switzerland
0.2%
Sweden
0.2%
Poland
0.2%
Norway
0.2%
India
0.2%
Denmark
0.2%
Venezuela
0.1%
Russia
0.1%
Netherlands
0.1%
Lithuania
0.1%
Ireland
0.1%
Iran
0.1%
Iceland
0.1%
Hungary
0.1%
Germany
0.1%
Finland
0.1%
Estonia
0.1%
Colombia
0.1%
Argentina
0.1%
Albania
0.1%
Ukraine
0.0%



http://oi44.tinypic.com/2cru520.jpg



http://oi44.tinypic.com/311umg7.jpg

[HellLander87]

N.Italian(lombardista) vs N.Greek(my uncle) for comparison
Population
North_Sea 27.62%
Atlantic 18.41%
Baltic 4.83%
Eastern_Euro -
West_Med 22.96%
West_Asian 5.28%
East_Med 20.70%
Red_Sea 0.10%
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.10%
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


North_Sea 15.47%
Atlantic 16.85%
Baltic 12.14%
Eastern_Euro 7.33%
West_Med 18.03%
West_Asian 10.33%
East_Med 15.69%
Red_Sea 4.16%
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

(N.sea+Atlantic+Baltic+E.Euro)=50.86 vs 51.79

[Peyrol]

Assuming that lombadista has tuscan ancestors and your uncle is a thessaliot, make sense.

[curupira]

Lombardista's clusters and distances (he's a full blooded lombard but with some tuscan/central italian ancestors)

This is just a list of his cousins on 23andme. It is skewed towards the Anglosphere since most clients are from there. His Dodecad Oracle k12b results and his McDonald results show him to be clearly typical of Northern Italians (and they're not about cousins, but the autosomal profile of the individual, genetic distances, something much more meaningful to cluster a person). When I have the time to, I'll post his Dodecad k12b results, quite in line with those I already posted. Northern Italians, generally, are just Southwards of the Southern French in genetic maps. There is variation, of course, some are pulled within the Southern French group, a study specifically addressed it, but overall, that's it. They will never stand among Britons, Scots or Irish, unless the Northern Italian ancestry has been diluted to 1/8 or 1/16.

[Peyrol]

This is just a list of his cousins on 23andme. It is skewed towards the Anglosphere since most clients are from there. His Dodecad Oracle k12b results and his McDonald results show him to be clearly typical of Northern Italians (and they're not about cousins, but the autosomal profile of the individual, genetic distances, something much more meaningful to cluster a person). When I have the time to, I'll post his Dodecad k12b results, quite in line with those I already posted. Northern Italians, generally, are just Southwards of the Southern French in genetic maps. There is variation, of course, some are pulled within the Southern French group, a study specifically addressed it, but overall, that's it. They will never stand among Britons, Scots or Irish, unless the Northern Italian ancestry has been diluted to 1/8 or 1/16.


I don't know 23andMe and ''clusters match'' dynamics and other stuffs and i sincerely can't give a fuck about this kind of pseudogenetic as people on this board do (it's an obsession, like a psychosys sometimes), i only reported what he posted in his threads.


Btw, if you people want to say that we're arabs or indians or sicilians (as people on this board want to hear about North Italy), i can write it, it's not a problem for me :laugh:

[curupira]

Btw, if you people want to say that we're arabs or indians or sicilians (as people on this board want to hear about North Italy), i can write it, it's not a problem for me :laugh:

Well, your comment that he'd cluster among Britons is quite absurd, if you were familiar with genetic studies. The position on genetic maps is quite determined by one's ancestry. That of real Northern Italians is in between Tuscans and Southern French. Dodecad Oracle k12b and other genetic tools show with precise accuracy genetic distances, mirroring genetic maps.

Ancestry finder on 23andme just shows one's cousins. And it is biased by their client base coming from the Anglosphere. Most of my cousins on 23andme, by far, are from the US, and I have a good percentage of British cousins on 23andme (0.5%). But this is rather meaningless. I don't have British ancestry (or any significant one). It just so happens that it is skewed toward the Anglosphere, as I pointed out.

[Peyrol]

Well, your comment that he'd cluster among Britons is quite absurd, if you were familiar with genetic studies. The position on genetic maps is quite determined by one's ancestry. That of real Northern Italians is in between Tuscans and Southern French. Dodecad Oracle k12b and other genetic tools show with precise accuracy genetic distances, mirroring genetic maps.

Ancestry finder on 23andme just shows one's cousins. And it is biased by their client base coming from the Anglosphere. Most of my cousins on 23andme, by far, are from the US, and I have a good percentage of British cousins on 23andme (0.5%). But this is rather meaningless. I don't have British ancestry (or any significant one). It just so happens that it is skewed toward the Anglosphere, as I pointed out.

I repeat myself, i don't and i'm not interested in some idiocies as ''clusters'' or other pseydoscyentiphic things, i only reported what he wrote.

And btw ''tuscan'' as a genetic island is senseless, they aren't some kind of mystical isolated and inbreeded population, they live in one of the most ''open'' (low mountains, crossable rivers, etc) area of the country, how's possible they're so far from north italians, centrosouthern italians, sicilians, sards, etc?
That's ridiculous.

Idem for the ''southern french'' (the occitans), since historically they had and still have a lot of exchanges with catalans, basques, aragoneses, northwestern italians (ligurians and piemonteises firstly) and obviously, with the ''northern french'' (the oils, the ''real'' french people).

[HellLander87]

N.Italians genetically are something like 50% Germans 50% Sicilians.

[Insuperable]

I don't know 23andMe and ''clusters match'' dynamics and other stuffs and i sincerely can't give a fuck about this kind of pseudogenetic as people on this board do (it's an obsession, like a psychosys sometimes), i only reported what he posted in his threads.


Btw, if you people want to say that we're arabs or indians or sicilians (as people on this board want to hear about North Italy), i can write it, it's not a problem for me :laugh:

Nobody thinks that, wtf! Orcadians and Scots are one the most Northern and Western people in Europe, hardly anyone who is not Orcadian and Scot and is not of British Isles ancestry can be genetically the same as them, not to mention someone who is located that much further towards the South as Northen Italians.

I don't get why you think people have such a view of Northern Italians but still according to you if Lombardista is not similar to Orcadians (or South GermansxD) then he must be something completely else and you go to such extent to claim genetics as pseudoscience.

My friend, yet they will accuse me of being a Nordicist.xD :p

[curupira]

I repeat myself, i don't and i'm not interested in some idiocies as ''clusters'' or other pseydoscyentiphic things, i only reported what he wrote.

It is actually quite scientific. It works perfectly well. And the results are quite coherent. What is very non scientific is to claim Northern Italians could ever cluster with Britons.

[Peyrol]

Nobody thinks that, wtf! Orcadians and Scots are one the most Northern and Western people in Europe, hardly anyone who is not Orcadian and Scot and is not of British Isles ancestry can be genetically the same as them, not to mention someone who is located that much further towards the South as Northen Italians.

I don't get why you think people have such a view of Northern Italians but still according to you if Lombardista is not similar to Orcadians (or South GermansxD) then he must be something completely else and you go to such extent to claim genetics as pseudoscience.

My friend, yet they will accuse me of being a Nordicist.xD :p


It is actually quite scientific. It works perfectly well. And the results are quite coherent. What is very non scientific is to claim Northern Italians could ever cluster with Britons.

Can you people read what i write or you want children drawings and images?

I don't know how this work, i reported what i read, puttana di quella troia merda

[Peyrol]

It is actually quite scientific. It works perfectly well. And the results are quite coherent.

No, they aren't according to real History and not ''antrobrophora science''.

that's history:



And btw ''tuscan'' as a genetic island is senseless, they aren't some kind of mystical isolated and inbreeded population, they live in one of the most ''open'' (low mountains, crossable rivers, etc) area of the country, how's possible they're so far from north italians, centrosouthern italians, sicilians, sards, etc?
That's ridiculous.

Idem for the ''southern french'' (the occitans), since historically they had and still have a lot of exchanges with catalans, basques, aragoneses, northwestern italians (ligurians and piemonteises firstly) and obviously, with the ''northern french'' (the oils, the ''real'' french people).

Now tell me that tuscans are some kind of isolated genetic population when this statement is obviously impossible...c'mon...

[Insuperable]

Can you people read what i write or you want children drawings and images?

I don't know how this work, i reported what i read, puttana di quella troia merda

I understand what you wrote. You just wrote what he wrote. It is just that the rest is crap.

[Peyrol]

I understand what you wrote. You just wrote what he wrote. It is just that the rest is crap.

...and btw, there isn't neither a monolithic ''north italian'' group....excluding the fact that in 2014 pure northerners are something as 35-50% of the population, even among natives there isn't a continuum,,,furlans are furlans, mountain bergamasks are another thing, ligurians another one, the same for venetians (which exported and imported people from and to all over the balkans and greek islands..).

[Insuperable]

...and btw, there isn't neither a monolithic ''north italian'' group....excluding the fact that in 2014 pure northerners are something as 35-50% of the population, even among natives there isn't a continuum,,,furlans are furlans, mountain bergamasks are another thing, ligurians another one, the same for venetians (which exported and imported people from and to all over the balkans and greek islands..).

You just repeat the same crap about northerners being a minority in North Italy over and over and over again (and I am not saying that isn't the case). North Italian samples were taken from native North Italians. North Italians who posted their results turn out to be similar to North Italian samples on Eurogenes etc etc. Are you going to say to lets say Fla88 that she isn't the real North Italian?

Regarding the latter stuff you wrote. I understand, but every country had some other European influences and no people are 100% similar. North Italians are no exception.

[Peyrol]

You just repeat the same crap about northerners being a minority in North Italy over and over and over again (and I am not saying that isn't the case). North Italian samples were taken from native North Italians. North Italians who posted their results turn out to be similar to North Italian samples on Eurogenes etc etc. Are you going to say to lets say Fla88 that she isn't the real North Italian?

Regarding the latter stuff you wrote. I understand, but every country had some other European influences and no people are 100% similar. North Italians are no exception.

She is and she cluster in ''Eastern europe'' border, so what's the problem exactly?
It's 23andMe, almost a religion for you, uh?



Btw, the apricity logic:

-sicilians and iberians are 200% moors because their lands were under magrebi domination, but....

-....not a single drop of turkish blood in the balkans and asian/turkic-uralic in northeast and eastern Europe, on the other hand.

- greeks are like poles



That's one of the reason why i like this board...cagate a ripetizione :lol:

[Sikeliot]

North Italians are definitely a central euro people overall some leaning more western and others eastern.

[HellLander87]

A k13 comparison between another N Italian member Valerio Tadici and my uncle(for the psychotics that want to see;)) . He is from northeastern Italy if I remember correctly.
North_Atlantic 29.29%
Baltic 14.61%
West_Med 23.41%
West_Asian 5.71%
East_Med 22.35%
Red_Sea 2.33%
South_Asian 1.51
East_Asian 0.25%
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.53%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

uncle
North_Atlantic 24.65%
Baltic 19.14%
West_Med 21.67%
West_Asian 9.15%
East_Med 21.26%
Red_Sea 3.28%
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.58%
Siberian 0.23%
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


(N.Atlantic+Baltic)=43.9(V.T) vs 43.79

[Peyrol]

North Italians are definitely a central euro people overall some leaning more western and others eastern.

Culturally yes, even if i prefer the use of the term ''Alpine southern europeans''.

Genetically i don't know but according to many people here we're like sicilians...

[curupira]

Genetically i don't know but according to many people here we're like sicilians...

Genetically, you're closer to Sicilians than to Germans, if speaking of Northern Italians as a whole.

[Peyrol]

Valerio Tadici was a troll and i even doubt he was fully lombard as he claimed to be, or even fully italian (that surname don't exist and he wasn't neither able to speak lombard...).
Probabily one of the many reincarnation of the turk selfdeclared tuscan Sgillespie/many other nicknames.

[Peyrol]

Genetically, you're closer to Sicilians than to Germans, if speaking of Northern Italians as a whole.

An what's the problem?

We aren't neither sicilians and neither germans.

What the hell foreigners have always to reduce to ''sicilian'' every discussion about every part of Italy?


Who cares about this fucking rocky volcanic island coquered in 1861 ? It seem that it's the obsession of 4/5 of the world...

[HellLander87]

Valerio Tadici was a troll and i even doubt he was fully lombard as he claimed to be, or even fully italian (that surname don't exist and he wasn't neither able to speak lombard...).
Probabily one of the many reincarnation of the turk selfdeclared tuscan Sgillespie/many other nicknames.
His results are very close to the N.italian K13 average.He actually scores about 3% more Baltic than average which would make sense if he is from the north east.

[Insuperable]

She is and she cluster in ''Eastern europe'' border, so what's the problem exactly?
It's 23andMe, almost a religion for you, uh?

You are a funny guy Nordicist bro. An East European border hihihi.
Her results are similar to North Italian sample from Eurogenes etc etc for which you claimed on occasion or two "minority status and how many southerners are living in North Italy".

If I said that North Italians are South Germans and Orcadians in denial there would be no of this conversation even if that is a lie and you would feel no need to argue with anyone or reply back. Am I correct my Nordicist bro?

[Peyrol]

His results are very close to the N.italian K13 average.He actually scores about 3% more Baltic than average which would make sense if he is from the north east.

Have you his email?
Iv'e to ask him many things about his way of acting on the net and about his real identity and purposes.

[curupira]

We aren't neither sicilians and neither germans.

What the hell foreigners have always to reduce to ''sicilian'' every discussion about every part of Italy?

I agree, you're neither. I just mentioned them since they are the Southernmost Italians. Southern Germans are geographically closer, and yet genetically more distant. Geography here really doesn't help.

[Insuperable]

Culturally yes, even if i prefer the use of the term ''Alpine southern europeans''.

Genetically i don't know but according to many people here we're like sicilians...

You are not like Sicilians and nobody here is claiming that. Seems for you if you are not Orcadian you must be Sicilian. Are those some hidden wishes speaking on your behalf?

[Peyrol]

You are a funny guy Nordicist bro. An East European border hihihi.
Her results are similar to North Italian sample from Eurogenes etc etc for which you claimed on occasion or two "minority status and how many southerners are living in North Italy".

If I said that North Italians are South Germans and Orcadians in denial there would be no of this conversation even if that is a lie and you would feel no need to argue with anyone or reply back. Am I correct my Nordicist bro?

Can you people decide what i am?

Many of TA members called and still call me ''med supremacist'', balkanoid ziganos as you and the other slovenian german wannabee call me ''nordicist''.

Can you reach an agrement about what i'm supposed to be, please? :rolleyes:

[Peyrol]

I agree, you're neither. I just mentioned them since they are the Southernmost Italians. Southern Germans are geographically closer, and yet genetically more distant. Geography here really doesn't help.

They aren't, i think calabrese are the southernmost italics.

[Peyrol]

You are not like Sicilians and nobody here is claiming that. Seems for you if you are not Orcadian you must be Sicilian. Are those some hidden wishes speaking on your behalf?

ALL the threads about us ends and always ended in this direction.

Can i be a little biased this time, uh?

[HellLander87]

Have you his email?
Iv'e to ask him many things about his way of acting on the net and about his real identity and purposes.
These results seem very legit for N.Italy however.This guy is a bit more northern genetically than Lombardista.

[Peyrol]

These results seem very legit for N.Italy however.This guy is a bit more northern genetically than Lombardista.

Well ok, i'm not talking about this genetic stuffs, i'm talking about his internet life.

[HellLander87]

And btw ''tuscan'' as a genetic island is senseless, they aren't some kind of mystical isolated and inbreeded population, they live in one of the most ''open'' (low mountains, crossable rivers, etc) area of the country, how's possible they're so far from north italians, centrosouthern italians, sicilians, sards, etc?
That's ridiculous.

Tuscans are not far from N italians.They are like 5% more southern on average which is what would be expected.They are not special or a genetic isolate of any kind.

[Insuperable]

Can you people decide what i am?

Come on Hans Gruber :patpat:, there is nothing to decide. You are inclined towards the Mediterranean, no doubt about it, but still you wish to be genetic brothers with South Germans and other more NW Euros at the same time.


Many of TA members called and still call me ''med supremacist'', balkanoid ziganos as you and the other slovenian german wannabee call me ''nordicist''.

Why do you refer to me like that? Alex Delarge does the same thing. Did I insult you with saying that you are a Nordicist? Did I touch some nerves? The funny thing is that I had no intention to troll anyone or to make anyone mad. I was just telling you as it is and you become angry for no reason (or maybe there is some reason;)) Stop confirming what I say. Let this be the last time, unless you want me to start with insults too.


Can you reach an agrement about what i'm supposed to be, please? :rolleyes:

I just did.


ALL the threads about us ends and always ended in this direction.

I don't know about any threads, but ok if you say so.


Can i be a little biased this time, uh?

You are already biased.

[Peyrol]

Come on Hans Gruber :patpat:, there is nothing to decide. You are inclined towards the Mediterranean, no doubt about it, but still you wish to be genetic brothers with South Germans and other more NW Euros at the same time.



Why do you refer to me like that? Alex Delarge does the same thing. Did I insult you? Did I touch some nerves? The funny thing is that I had no intention to troll anyone or to make anyone mad. I was just telling you as it is and you become angry for no reason (or maybe there is some reason;)) Stop confirming what I say. Let this be the last time, unless you want me to start with insults too.



I just did.



I don't know about any threads, but ok if you say so.



You are already biased.

Ok mr Broz-Seferovic, now quote me every single post since i'm member of this board when i declared to be like a german, lol. It's for the part of the ''orcadian''? Lol it wasn't me but Lombardista who posted this.

It's amazing how all the haters here are always accusing me of this (''german, german''), when i barely wrote the word ''german'' 2-3 times since i'm a member of this board.

I'm more focused on galloromance and mediterranean (euro mediterranean, not these idiocies as ''levantines'') stuffs an anyone who read me and my posts here already know this.



On the other hand, are you balkanites which are always smashing cocks about ''celtogermanicness'', not i xD

[Insuperable]

Ok mr Broz-Seferovic, now quote me every single post since i'm member of this board when i declared to be like a german, lol. It's for the part of the ''orcadian''? Lol it wasn't me but Lombardista who posted this.

It's amazing how all the haters here are always accusing me of this (''german, german''), when i barely wrote the word ''german'' 2-3 times since i'm a member of this board.

I'm more focused on galloromance and mediterranean (euro mediterranean, not these idiocies as ''levantines'') stuffs an anyone who read me and my posts here already know this.

On the other hand, are you balkanites which are always smashing cocks about ''celtogermanicness'', not i xD

It is not because of this recent Orcadian thing nor do you have to be declared as a German nor do you need to know a word of German to write what I did or to think what many of us think (maybe people are accusing for a reason and I doubt you will say "fuck it you got me":dunno:). It is just something which can be sensed from even over the Internet based on your posts as a whole.

[Peyrol]

It is not because of this recent Orcadian thing nor do you have to be declared as a German nor do you need to know a word of German to write what I did or to think what many of us think (maybe people are accusing for a reason and I doubt you will say "fuck it you got me":dunno:). It is just something which can be sensed from even over the Internet based on your posts as a whole.

Because you're (not YOU solin, i mean all the haters) are simply ignorant, that's all :dunno:

You see my posts about ''gallo romance'', you don't know what that concept is, you see me telling about the internal differences of my country (created artificially in 1861), and you think...''so, he don't talk always about sicilians and neapolitans, which are the real italians and how real italians act, and he talk about galloromance and north Italy...let's see...gallo...gaulish...ancient celts...''north''....oh my Odin, it must be a wannabee german''.
Maybe doing some research about what i wrote would prevent these kind of senseless ''j'accuse''

that's all, simply and simple :dunno:

[Insuperable]

Because you're (not YOU solin, i mean all the haters) are simply ignorant, that's all :dunno:

You see my posts about ''gallo romance'', you don't know what that's concept is, you see me telling about the internal differences of my country (created artificially in 1861), and you think...''so, he don't talk always about sicilians and neapolitans, which the real italians and how are real italians, and he talk about galloromance and north Italy...let's see...gallo...gaulish...ancient celts...''north''....oh my Odin, it must be a wannabee german''.
Maybe doing some research about what i wrote would prevent these kind of senseless ''j'accuse''

that's all, simply and simple :dunno:

No, on all accounts. It never crossed my mind to think something because of the Gallo thing you mention here or the way you talked about southern Italians (funnily enough most of the posts I bumped into were about you defending them).

But lets leave it at this. I really don't give a crap about any crap mentioned in this thread. When I bump into something I see is wrong I try to give people the correct information. That is what I do and did many times, on many occasions and on various topics. Regarding other things that is just something I indirectly pick up over time, unwillingly and can't help myself not to sort it out with people.

[Sikeliot]

Northern Italians are in nearly every way closer to southern French than to southern Italians. But some southerners trace back to the north and vice versa so it depends. Lombard speakers in Sicily have at least some ancestry from the north.

[Sizzo]

This is my K13:


Population
North_Atlantic 35.76%
Baltic 8.60%
West_Med 26.60%
West_Asian 6.04%
East_Med 22.17%
Red_Sea 0.26%
South_Asian 0.38%
East_Asian 0.19%

[Sizzo]

Ok mr Broz-Seferovic, now quote me every single post since i'm member of this board when i declared to be like a german, lol. It's for the part of the ''orcadian''? Lol it wasn't me but Lombardista who posted this.

It's amazing how all the haters here are always accusing me of this (''german, german''), when i barely wrote the word ''german'' 2-3 times since i'm a member of this board.

I'm more focused on galloromance and mediterranean (euro mediterranean, not these idiocies as ''levantines'') stuffs an anyone who read me and my posts here already know this.



On the other hand, are you balkanites which are always smashing cocks about ''celtogermanicness'', not i xD

Me? Orcadian? What?

[curupira]

^ Lombardista, I just ran your Dodecad Oracle k12b results (I guess they are pretty informative for a Northern Italian):


DodecadOracle(c(5.22, 0, 0, 0.26, 43.39, 22.22, 0, 0.08, 5.51, 0, 23.31, 0),k=82)
[,1] [,2]
[1,] "North_Italian" "1.3248"
[2,] "N_Italian_D" "2.8998"
[3,] "TSI30" "7.9046"
[4,] "Tuscan" "9.8911"
[5,] "O_Italian_D" "11.5352"
[6,] "Baleares_1KG" "11.5894"
[7,] "C_Italian_D" "13.8922"
[8,] "Galicia_1KG" "14.1733"
[9,] "Extremadura_1KG" "14.9537"
[10,] "Murcia_1KG" "15.5671"
[11,] "Andalucia_1KG" "15.6803"
[12,] "Portuguese_D" "16.2375"
[13,] "Spaniards" "16.2429"
[14,] "Castilla_Y_Leon_1KG" "16.6787"
[15,] "Cataluna_1KG" "17.2664"
[16,] "Spanish_D" "17.9802"
[17,] "Canarias_1KG" "18.1431"
[18,] "Valencia_1KG" "18.5836"
[19,] "Castilla_La_Mancha_1KG" "18.6303"
[20,] "Cantabria_1KG" "18.8659"
[21,] "Aragon_1KG" "19.7871"
[22,] "French" "21.0619"
[23,] "Greek_D" "21.558"
[24,] "French_D" "21.6764"
[25,] "Sicilian_D" "22.7691"
[26,] "S_Italian_Sicilian_D" "22.813"
[27,] "Bulgarians_Y" "23.8513"
[28,] "Romanians" "24.0093"
[29,] "Bulgarian_D" "24.4409"
[30,] "Ashkenazi_D" "26.8182"
[31,] "Ashkenazy_Jews" "27.2245"
[32,] "Mixed_Germanic_D" "29.1235"
[33,] "Kent_1KG" "30.2799"
[34,] "Sephardic_Jews" "30.2898"
[35,] "Morocco_Jews" "30.3083"
[36,] "Cornwall_1KG" "30.7644"
[37,] "Dutch_D" "30.8826"
[38,] "English_D" "31.0918"
[39,] "CEU30" "31.1302"
[40,] "German_D" "31.3743"
[41,] "British_D" "31.7134"
[42,] "Hungarians" "31.8257"
[43,] "British_Isles_D" "32.3496"
[44,] "Irish_D" "33.6615"
[45,] "Argyll_1KG" "33.8482"
[46,] "Pais_Vasco_1KG" "33.8937"
[47,] "Orcadian" "34.1667"
[48,] "Orkney_1KG" "34.7028"
[49,] "Sardinian" "35.6183"
[50,] "French_Basque" "38.7771"
[51,] "Cypriots" "40.827"
[52,] "Norwegian_D" "41.0923"
[53,] "Turkish_D" "41.3931"
[54,] "Swedish_D" "42.7017"
[55,] "Turks" "44.072"
[56,] "Lebanese" "45.2544"
[57,] "Nogais_Y" "45.3874"
[58,] "Syrians" "46.6922"
[59,] "Jordanians" "48.0724"
[60,] "Turkmens_Y" "48.1948"
[61,] "Polish_D" "48.5027"
[62,] "Ukranians_Y" "49.0316"
[63,] "Kumyks_Y" "49.1526"
[64,] "Druze" "49.2713"
[65,] "Palestinian" "49.392"
[66,] "Uzbekistan_Jews" "49.7842"
[67,] "Algerian_D" "49.7939"
[68,] "Tajiks_Y" "50.5911"
[69,] "Kurds_Y" "50.7924"
[70,] "Kurd_D" "50.9829"
[71,] "Iranian_D" "51.0006"
[72,] "Egyptans" "51.0442"
[73,] "Mixed_Slav_D" "51.2797"
[74,] "Iranians" "51.6232"
[75,] "Uzbeks" "52.139"
[76,] "Armenian_D" "52.2131"
[77,] "Assyrian_D" "52.739"
[78,] "Georgia_Jews" "52.7675"
[79,] "Iraq_Jews" "52.8015"
[80,] "Azerbaijan_Jews" "52.8853"
[81,] "Armenians_15_Y" "53.2016"
[82,] "Chuvashs" "53.7457"
>

[Sizzo]

^ Lombardista, I just ran your Dodecad Oracle k12b results (I guess they are pretty informative for a Northern Italian):

According to McDonald I'm 100% Italian (Bergamo sample, so Northern).

[curupira]

This map is from a recent interesting autosomal study which went into more detailed information, analysing diversity within Northern Italy, it is worth reading IMO (one can download it here: http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v21/n6/full/ejhg2012229a.html).

http://i62.tinypic.com/23ht7if.jpg

[curupira]

Yep, it is in no contradiction with the data I posted. The Dodecad Oracle k12b results show your genetic distance to other groups. Just have a look at your McDonald euro map, and I'm sure you'll realize they fit in just nicely.


According to McDonald I'm 100% Italian (Bergamo sample, so Northern).

[Sizzo]

Yep, it is no contradiction with the data I posted. The Dodecad Oracle k12b results show your genetic distance to other groups. Just have a look at your McDonald euro map, and I'm sure you'll realize they fit in just nicely.

Yes, indeed:

http://i58.tinypic.com/24nfj84.png

BTW, I score, on 23&Me (standard) 1% Sardinian (and 11.4% Northern European); probably I've something archaic, since my paternal stock is from the Bergamask Alps (Oetzi-like).

[curupira]

Yes, indeed:.

I was referring particularly to your euro map of McDonald, which shows your distance to other european groups (and they fit with the Dodecad Oracle k12b results). This one:

http://i61.tinypic.com/2lt623r.png

[Sizzo]

I was referring particularly to your euro map of McDonald, which shows your distance to other european groups (and they fit with the Dodecad Oracle k12b results). This one:

http://i61.tinypic.com/2lt623r.png

Ok, you meant my old posts.

[curupira]

Yep, I meant the Dodecad Oracle k12b results correlate with your genetic distance to other European groups as shown by that intra Euro map of McDonald.


Ok, you meant my old posts.

[Lucinho]

Is the "Northern European" imput in Northern Italians mostly Celtic or Germanic???

[Sizzo]

Is the "Northern European" imput in Northern Italians mostly Celtic or Germanic???

Celtic and Italic (Indo-European tribes from Central-East Europe). The Germanic influence in Northern Italy is negligible (unless you mean Alto Adige-Südtirol).

[Sizzo]

Assuming that lombadista has tuscan ancestors and your uncle is a thessaliot, make sense.

I'm not sure about Tuscan ancestors. My surname is rare and I saw some families with my surname in Tuscany, but it could be just a coincidence. No Tuscan ancestors in my modern genealogy.

[HellLander87]

Can you post the eurogenes Hunter Gatherer vs Farmer results?

[Sizzo]

This is my K13:

Population
North_Atlantic 35.76%
Baltic 8.60%
West_Med 26.60%
West_Asian 6.04%
East_Med 22.17%
Red_Sea 0.26%
South_Asian 0.38%
East_Asian 0.19%

And this is my Dodecad K12b:

Population
Gedrosia 5.22%
Siberian -
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 0.26%
Atlantic_Med 43.39%
North_European 22.22%
South_Asian -
East_African 0.08%
Southwest_Asian 5.51%
East_Asian -
Caucasus 23.31%
Sub_Saharan -

I don't understand the Eurogenes' results: more Northern and East Med than the average North Italian but less Baltic and Red Sea; on another Eurogenes (K15 maybe) I'm 0 Eastern European. Dodecad is more reliable, I think. Anyway my "Levantine" admixture derives from some Oetzi-like pocket in the Alps rather than uncertain Tuscan ancestor.

[Sizzo]

Can you post the eurogenes Hunter Gatherer vs Farmer results?

Population
Anatolian Farmer 16.60%
Baltic Hunter Gatherer 30.01%
Middle Eastern Herder 6.75%
East Asian Farmer -
South American Hunter Gatherer -
South Asian Hunter Gatherer -
North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer -
East African Pastoralist -
Oceanian Hunter Gatherer -
Mediterranean Farmer 46.64%
Pygmy Hunter Gatherer -
Bantu Farmer -

[Sizzo]

Fla88 (Ligurian-Venetian):

Population
Anatolian Farmer 19.03%
Baltic Hunter Gatherer 30.89%
Middle Eastern Herder 8.05%
East Asian Farmer -
South American Hunter Gatherer 0.28%
South Asian Hunter Gatherer -
North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer -
East African Pastoralist -
Oceanian Hunter Gatherer 0.34%
Mediterranean Farmer 41.41%
Pygmy Hunter Gatherer -
Bantu Farmer -

[cally]

This is my K13:

Population
North_Atlantic 35.76%
Baltic 8.60%
West_Med 26.60%
West_Asian 6.04%
East_Med 22.17%
Red_Sea 0.26%
South_Asian 0.38%
East_Asian 0.19%

And this is my Dodecad K12b:

Population
Gedrosia 5.22%
Siberian -
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 0.26%
Atlantic_Med 43.39%
North_European 22.22%
South_Asian -
East_African 0.08%
Southwest_Asian 5.51%
East_Asian -
Caucasus 23.31%
Sub_Saharan -

I don't understand the Eurogenes' results: more Northern and East Med than the average North Italian but less Baltic and Red Sea; on another Eurogenes (K15 maybe) I'm 0 Eastern European. Dodecad is more reliable, I think. Anyway my "Levantine" admixture derives from some Oetzi-like pocket in the Alps rather than uncertain Tuscan ancestor.

Same with me and Albanians. I am more East Med and North Sea but less Atlantic and Red Sea (Arabian)

[Sizzo]

Fla88 (Ligurian-Venetian):

Population
Anatolian Farmer 19.03%
Baltic Hunter Gatherer 30.89%
Middle Eastern Herder 8.05%
East Asian Farmer -
South American Hunter Gatherer 0.28%
South Asian Hunter Gatherer -
North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer -
East African Pastoralist -
Oceanian Hunter Gatherer 0.34%
Mediterranean Farmer 41.41%
Pygmy Hunter Gatherer -
Bantu Farmer -

Another Lombardian from my area (Bergamo):

Population
Anatolian Farmer 17.40%
Baltic Hunter Gatherer 32.00%
Middle Eastern Herder 7.63%
East Asian Farmer 0.17%
South American Hunter Gatherer -
South Asian Hunter Gatherer -
North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer -
East African Pastoralist -
Oceanian Hunter Gatherer -
Mediterranean Farmer 42.80%
Pygmy Hunter Gatherer -
Bantu Farmer -

[HellLander87]

My uncles results for comparison

Anatolian Farmer 19.41%
Baltic Hunter Gatherer 32.94%
Middle Eastern Herder 11.03%
East Asian Farmer -
South American Hunter Gatherer -
South Asian Hunter Gatherer -
North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer -
East African Pastoralist -
Oceanian Hunter Gatherer 0.06%
Mediterranean Farmer 36.56%
Pygmy Hunter Gatherer -
Bantu Farmer -

[Sizzo]

My uncles results for comparison

Anatolian Farmer 19.41%
Baltic Hunter Gatherer 32.94%
Middle Eastern Herder 11.03%
East Asian Farmer -
South American Hunter Gatherer -
South Asian Hunter Gatherer -
North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer -
East African Pastoralist -
Oceanian Hunter Gatherer 0.06%
Mediterranean Farmer 36.56%
Pygmy Hunter Gatherer -
Bantu Farmer -

Nice results. Here, at last, a user from Piedmont area (toward SE France):

Population
Anatolian Farmer 13.51%
Baltic Hunter Gatherer 36.02%
Middle Eastern Herder 7.66%
East Asian Farmer 0.22%
South American Hunter Gatherer 0.43%
South Asian Hunter Gatherer -
North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer 0.13%
East African Pastoralist -
Oceanian Hunter Gatherer -
Mediterranean Farmer 42.03%
Pygmy Hunter Gatherer -
Bantu Farmer -

[HellLander87]

One more Greek.
Anatolian Farmer 23.36%
Baltic Hunter Gatherer 36.04%
Middle Eastern Herder 8.51%
East Asian Farmer -
South American Hunter Gatherer -
South Asian Hunter Gatherer -
North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer -
East African Pastoralist -
Oceanian Hunter Gatherer 0.72%
Mediterranean Farmer 31.09%
Pygmy Hunter Gatherer 0.27%
Bantu Farmer -

[Shuffle]

The other side of the Alps, South-Germany:

Anatolian Farmer 12.60%
Baltic Hunter Gatherer 47.81%
Middle Eastern Herder 3.76%
East Asian Farmer -
South American Hunter Gatherer 0.35%
South Asian Hunter Gatherer 0.74%
North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer -
East African Pastoralist -
Oceanian Hunter Gatherer 0.74%
Mediterranean Farmer 33.97%
Pygmy Hunter Gatherer -
Bantu Farmer -

[Sizzo]

I guess why my results haven't got that exotic components like South American, South Asian, Oceanian and East Asian.

[Shuffle]

It's probably just noise since it's less than 1 % in most cases but could be something really old asian though.

[Sikeliot]

One more Greek.
Anatolian Farmer 23.36%
Baltic Hunter Gatherer 36.04%
Middle Eastern Herder 8.51%
East Asian Farmer -
South American Hunter Gatherer -
South Asian Hunter Gatherer -
North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer -
East African Pastoralist -
Oceanian Hunter Gatherer 0.72%
Mediterranean Farmer 31.09%
Pygmy Hunter Gatherer 0.27%
Bantu Farmer -


I have more Middle Eastern Herder than he does.. weird.

[HellLander87]

I have more Middle Eastern Herder than he does.. weird.
how much do you score?

[Sikeliot]

Here are mine:

http://i57.tinypic.com/2psptlj.jpg

[HellLander87]

Here are mine:

http://i57.tinypic.com/2psptlj.jpg
At this calculator your results could pass as northern italian but at k13 you score far too much baltic and less N atlantic than N.italians.

[Sizzo]

Same with me and Albanians. I am more East Med and North Sea but less Atlantic and Red Sea (Arabian)

What's East Med exactly? Anatolia?

[Shuffle]

East-Med peaks in Lebanon and levantine area.

[Sizzo]

N.Italian(lombardista) vs N.Greek(my uncle) for comparison
Population
North_Sea 27.62%
Atlantic 18.41%
Baltic 4.83%
Eastern_Euro -
West_Med 22.96%
West_Asian 5.28%
East_Med 20.70%
Red_Sea 0.10%
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.10%
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


North_Sea 15.47%
Atlantic 16.85%
Baltic 12.14%
Eastern_Euro 7.33%
West_Med 18.03%
West_Asian 10.33%
East_Med 15.69%
Red_Sea 4.16%
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

(N.sea+Atlantic+Baltic+E.Euro)=50.86 vs 51.79

My Eurogenes results are quite weird: 0 Eastern Euro? Even Southern Italians have it.

[HellLander87]

My Eurogenes results are quite weird: 0 Eastern Euro? Even Southern Italians have it.
How much do other north italians score on that?
It peaks at russia I think.

[Sizzo]

How much do other north italians score on that?
It peaks at russia I think.

On V2 K15 North Italians are 3.72% Eastern Euro while Southerners 0.8%. Tuscans are 2.92%. Well, it's the variability but 0% Eastern Europe sounds strange. I'm even 4.83% Baltic (North Italian average is 7.11, Tuscan 6.44, South 5.70!).

[HellLander87]

The more components a calculator has the less accurate it can be.It's good for a general observation but don't take it too literally.If the components are similar there is a chance it will confuse some segments i believe.In general at this calculator the variation for each component seems to be quite high which would mean that it's not too accurate imo.

[Ulla]

I would see how many of these samples are really pure ''north italians'' and not the usual mongrels south italian/somethin else which are the majority here in Northern Italy.

Well, I guess that samples should be correct. But you are right, who assures that?

[curupira]

Well, I guess that samples should be correct. But you are right, who assures that?

Just have a look at the results of Lombardista/Italicus (posted on this thread). They fit in right with the average North Italian results coming out of the genetic studies.

[Sizzo]

^ McDonald's words about my results:

Most likely fit is 100% Italian (Southern Europe)
which is 100% total Europe
The location error = 0.006416 with 1 group

The following are possible populations,
most likely at the top:
Italian= 1.000

and a special custom test agrees. Very very few people I test test
as plain “Italian”, “Tuscan” is much more common. But you are expected
to be “Italian” since our comparison people labeled Italian
were all actually from Bergamo.

Doug McDonald