Kastrioti1443
06-11-2014, 07:49 PM
A sad phenomena indeed.
http://africasacountry.com/mixed-race-kids-a-new-phenomenon-in-the-netherlands-we-think-not/
This week cultural centre de Balie in Amsterdam will be hosting an event titled ‘LovingDay.nl: (In)visibly Mixed’ on “mixed race” families and relationships (BTW, the Netherlands uncritically accepts this terminology, along with the assumption that certain people are “pure” and others are “mixed”, thereby reifying 19th century race theories). Loving Day takes the end of anti-miscegenation laws in America in 1967 as its starting point to celebrate the growing number of mixed couples and children in the Netherlands. Mixed children are a growing phenomenon in the Netherlands (up from 30% to 37% from 2007 in Amsterdam) but oddly, the program claims, this growth is not visible in Dutch policy or imaging of the Dutch identity.
Being designated as “mixed race” ourselves, we don’t deny that there’s a lot to talk about, but we were mildly surprised to see that this program completely ignores the historical and socio-economical context of mixed race identities within Dutch colonial history. We say mildly, because it wouldn’t be the first time the Dutch conveniently forgot about their colonial adventures. There were clear strategies to instill and secure Dutch “purity” and a cultural sense of belonging in both South Africa and Indonesia. But of course, there were those “Others” that produced in both former colonies. Indos (people of mixed Indonesian European descent) have existed within the former Dutch-East Indies (and thus the Netherlands) for over 300 years, and the same can be said about the Coloured community in South Africa. Let’s not forget that there were and has been strong Dutch policy surrounding and creating these “mixed” identities beginning with the colonial period and existing well into the present.
The regulation of sexual relations was ingrained in the structure of the colonies and often also after periods of colonization. Many of us already know that in apartheid South Africa, sexual prohibitions were made very clear through the prohibition of Mixed Marriages Act (1949) and the Immorality Amendment Act (1950) that outlawed marriage and sex across the colour line. But back in the day, Dutch settlers eagerly married or fathered children with Khoisan women. As scholars such as Ann Stoler have pointed out (see here), the regulation of sexual relations was important to the development of the colonies itself. In South Africa we see that in the initial period of colonization “mixing” was tolerated and even condoned. Actually the sexual relations between European men and colonized women aided the long-term settlement of European men in the colonies. Again, as AIAC readers may know, “Coloured” South Africans descend from European settlers—as well as from Cape slaves, indigenous Khoisan population, and other black people; because of that, they are regarded as being “mixed race” and often seen as distinct from the historically dominant white minority and the African population. There is of course much more to say about the Coloured identity and its fluidity, but the influence of Dutch settlers cannot be denied.
In Indonesia, the VOC and Dutch colonial powers specifically created the Indos (or IndoEuropeans) as an acclimatized, cheap workforce that would be loyal to the Netherlands. Within the colony, Indos had special privileges above Indonesian natives and below Dutch colonials, which ultimately resulted in their expulsion from Indonesia once it gained its independence. Needless to say a people of mixed origin—who were brought up and told they were European and were above the local populace during colonial times, only to end up in Europe where they discovered that they were in fact not European—have some serious identity issues to work through. That is, before they completely disappear off the map of Dutch self-knowledge and history. As with silences inherent in other parts of Dutch history, the Indo, too, is expected to disappear from the present, now that colonial times have ended.
Obviously, South Africa and Indonesia weren’t the only colonial territories that the Dutch set foot on. There is a clear need for more research when it comes to similarities (as well as the differences) between the different colonies and the influence of the Dutch. In the same vein, current Dutch race and gender relations have been greatly shaped by colonial endeavors. It is odd enough that the Netherlands takes on the end of American anti-miscegenation laws as a means to celebrate people of mixed backgrounds within the Netherlands, but it becomes problematic when these issues are presented as something new and unpoliced, when the Dutch have had such strong colonial policies related to the creation of new ‘people’ for their own profit.
Furthermore, current Dutch policies banning and preventing new immigrants from bringing over spouses from their motherland will have an obvious effect on the increase in mixed race relationships and children in the Netherlands. Often the idealized idea of mixed race children with “cute light eyes and curly hair” dismisses the ambiguous feelings of cultural belonging that underlie mixed race identities. For instance, it is not uncommon for a white mother to be asked if she adopted her child. In addition, it is often not recognized how mixed race children are privileged over black children in the media and popular culture, which further enforces the idea that ‘lighter’ children have more status and privilege.
Too bad that Balie and LovingDay.nl programmers ignore these serious identity issues and prejudices faced by both mixed race couples and their offspring as well as Dutch colonial history and the role it has played in creating people like us. But as usual, the Dutch just like feeling good about themselves as liberal and tolerant—they are happy to “celebrate” but not deal with anything difficult.
Fetishism of Dutch women for Africans and Asians:
http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Reader2007/reader4141.htm
For quite a while now I have been puzzled by the behaviour and preferences most Dutch girls exhibit. Oftentimes I thought my opinion and feelings about them were only my perception and not the real truth. Maybe they were stemming from hatred towards these girls because they never chose me? They and their attitude towards me certainly were part of (but surely not the only) reason I made the decision to move to South East Asia in 1997.
I have never been particularly popular with the Dutch girls. My problems were that I’m very average looking, not tall and quite shy. Until I went to Asia I had never had a girlfriend.
About 1.5 years ago I returned to The Netherlands because I was offered a great job here. During this time I have observed many Dutch girls both in my working environment and outside and I noticed that since the time I have been away, this weird behaviour and attitude has increased (worsened) tremendously. I have also spoken to numerous Dutch guys about the things I notice and most if not all of these guys agree with me.
The average Dutch girl has not only grown in size the last 10 years, but has also become a lot more stuck up and arrogant towards the NATIVE part of the male Dutch population. So much so that they don’t even hide their disgust towards them anymore as they still did 10 years ago. Back then they would not be interested in native Dutch males, but they would at least hide that disinterest behind a façade of fake interest.
This is especially the case with young, good-looking Dutch girls aged until about 26. These girls are almost without exception only interested in guys from the so called minority groups in The Netherlands. Black guys are the most popular (refugees from African countries and guys from Suriname and the Dutch Antilles etc.), followed closely by guys from the Arab groups (Moroccan, Turkish, etc). Guys from Indonesia (Holland has quite a large Indonesian population) are a little bit less popular but generally still do well with the Dutch girls. Last come the guys from other parts of Europe of which the Southern Europeans (Italians, Spaniards) are more popular then the Northern Europeans (Germans, British etc). The last ones are just slightly more popular than the native Dutch guys. The native Dutch guys, poor sods as they are, are dealt the last hand, and are literally left with the leftovers.
In the Sales Department of my working place they recently hired 3 beautiful 23 year old young women. Don’t ask me why, but they did. There are 4 native Dutch guys working there and one guy from an Arab background. This Arab guy is married, overweight and 38 years old. Within weeks all 3 of these girls were madly in love with this Arab guy, I am not lying! This is getting out of hand now because these girls are more busy now impressing the Arab guy and competing against each other then they are with their work. The Sales Manager told me he wants to take steps. I have a lot of dealing with the purchase dept and also with those young women but they never even greet me when I meet them in the hall or outside. They can hardly hide the look of disdain on their face when they see me. The other Dutch guys in the sales deptartment told me they are also pretty much ignored by the new girls. To put things into perspective: one of these Dutch guys in the sales department is a single, fit and handsome 28 year old lad who has a very nice personality. My Dutch male friends who work in other places see similar things happening between the Dutch girls and Arab or black guys working at their place.
Very interesting and in my opinion a real eye opener is the reaction and opinion from other Dutch girls in my office regarding the relationship between Y and the 3 girls. In my department there is a girl working who is about the same age of these 3 lovestruck women who naturally befriended the 3 girls from the sales department. She knows that they are in love with Y and we were recently talking about it. I told her how cold and unfriendly these girls were with me and this girl told me that that is normal. I should learn to see it from a woman’s point of view she told me. She said that Dutch guys, especially in an office environment never accept their female co-workers as their equal. Dutch girls really have to be strong and confident or else they will be walked over by the (native) Dutch males. What she said next baffled me even more. Her next statement was that Dutch girls cannot smile or act friendly towards Dutch guys because if they do so these guys will almost always sexually harass these girls. Of course I was not like that she hastened to say, but because these girls did not know me well enough yet they acted like that towards me for self protection. What about Y then was my next question, they sit on his lap and hug him whenever they can and think they are not observed. She said Y was a very lovely guy and she could fully understand why these girls adored him so I should be happy and glad they were so nice to him cos it proves how nice Dutch girls are. These were almost her literal words because I wrote them down immediately after our conversation.
I have a friend who hails from Suriname. He is a nice, married guy about 46 years old. We often go out together for a drink in town, and every time we go out girls half his age literally throw themselves at him. Most guys would take advantage of that but he is the faithful type, and actually doesn’t like the attention he gets. He is also at a loss about it, he obviously has many friends from the same place and told me they all experience the same, even his 140 kilo butt ugly Surinam friend has the girls falling for him wherever he goes.
There is a big lover boy problem nowadays in Holland. An estimated 12% of the young native Dutch girls fall prey to them. 98% of the lover boys are from a minority group, mostly Moroccans and guys from the Dutch Antilles. What these guys do is they make a young girl fall in love with them (easier then breathing for them) and when the girl is madly in love they make them work for them as prostitutes. Most of these guys have more than one girl working for them at the same time, some as many as 10!!
In my town there is a refugee centre. This is a place or compound where asylum seekers are being kept until they get the Dutch nationality. These guys have a lot of freedom and are not allowed to work so most of them hang around in the town centre during the day. Most of them are male, from black African countries, around 20 years of age. One of my friends works as security in the centre and told me the most amazing stories. During the day many Dutch girls come to the centre to meet their boyfriend. Because there are new refugees coming to and leaving the centre every day, many of these girls take their female friends who don’t yet have a refugee boyfriend but also want one to get one for themselves. These guys normally don’t have much money and are showered with gifts from their girlfriends. In no time most refugees have hand phones, nice clothes and bicycles. The refugees who have not much to do compete with each other over who has the prettiest and most girls and who gets the most gifts.
There is also a big difference about how the Dutch women who are in a relationship with a native Dutch guy behave compared to the girls who are in a relationship with a foreign guy. Dutch girls who are in relationship with a Dutch guy are never satisfied with the guy. They always complain about him and he can never do anything right. Compare this to the girls or women who are in a relationship with a foreign guy. Almost without exception they are very happy with the guy (even if he beats the living daylights out of them or if he strays every night which many of these guys do) and very proud to have him as their boyfriend or husband.
Granted most Dutch girls, after reaching a certain age (and a certain body weight), tend to become less interested in the foreign guys. They typically will have a couple of kids by then and their interest will shift from the foreigners to the more stable and more trustworthy Dutch guys. Would the fact that most foreign guys are by then not interested in them have something to do with that?
It is quite weird if you compare the behaviour of the Dutch girls to that of the Thai girls. In both countries you observe the same thing. The Thai local girls are also quite interested in foreign guys but often for altogether completely different reasons. The foreign guy the Dutch girl is interested in is normally not rich, has no job (50% of the Surinam and Arab guys in Holland are unemployed) and does not always have the most sincere motives. So one can say that the Thai girls are a lot cleverer than the Dutch girls or maybe a lot more street smart. Many of them would not fall for a guy if there was at least not some advantage for themselves in it.
The above might seem a rant from a jealous and frustrated white guy who could not get a Dutch girl but that is not anymore the case. Before 1997 it might have been which was also the reason that back then I thought it was only my perception and not how the majority of the Dutch girls really were. Now after 1.5 years back in Holland and looking at it from the side line because I’m not even slightly interested in any Dutch girl anymore, I can say it is true and quite odd. I don’t know if the girls in other Western European countries have similar behaviour, I guess not but I would love to hear from guys it is so.
http://unsafeharbour.wordpress.com/2012/02/09/who-is-attracted-to-who/
More info here: http://www.uu.nl/SiteCollectionDocuments/SW/Ercomer/digital%20publications/vantubergen04.pdf
Global data:
In the Netherlands, intermarriage rates are quite similar among Surinamese and Antillean men and women. 22% of Surinamese men marry native Dutch, while 26% of women marry native Dutch. Among the Antillean immigrants, 48% of men marry native Dutch, compared to 40% of women.
And to all this nightmare , this comes as the final gift to the innocent dutch women:
http://www.nieuwsblad.be/article/detail.aspx?articleid=DMF20140211_00974289
What is the solution to all this nightmare????????
http://africasacountry.com/mixed-race-kids-a-new-phenomenon-in-the-netherlands-we-think-not/
This week cultural centre de Balie in Amsterdam will be hosting an event titled ‘LovingDay.nl: (In)visibly Mixed’ on “mixed race” families and relationships (BTW, the Netherlands uncritically accepts this terminology, along with the assumption that certain people are “pure” and others are “mixed”, thereby reifying 19th century race theories). Loving Day takes the end of anti-miscegenation laws in America in 1967 as its starting point to celebrate the growing number of mixed couples and children in the Netherlands. Mixed children are a growing phenomenon in the Netherlands (up from 30% to 37% from 2007 in Amsterdam) but oddly, the program claims, this growth is not visible in Dutch policy or imaging of the Dutch identity.
Being designated as “mixed race” ourselves, we don’t deny that there’s a lot to talk about, but we were mildly surprised to see that this program completely ignores the historical and socio-economical context of mixed race identities within Dutch colonial history. We say mildly, because it wouldn’t be the first time the Dutch conveniently forgot about their colonial adventures. There were clear strategies to instill and secure Dutch “purity” and a cultural sense of belonging in both South Africa and Indonesia. But of course, there were those “Others” that produced in both former colonies. Indos (people of mixed Indonesian European descent) have existed within the former Dutch-East Indies (and thus the Netherlands) for over 300 years, and the same can be said about the Coloured community in South Africa. Let’s not forget that there were and has been strong Dutch policy surrounding and creating these “mixed” identities beginning with the colonial period and existing well into the present.
The regulation of sexual relations was ingrained in the structure of the colonies and often also after periods of colonization. Many of us already know that in apartheid South Africa, sexual prohibitions were made very clear through the prohibition of Mixed Marriages Act (1949) and the Immorality Amendment Act (1950) that outlawed marriage and sex across the colour line. But back in the day, Dutch settlers eagerly married or fathered children with Khoisan women. As scholars such as Ann Stoler have pointed out (see here), the regulation of sexual relations was important to the development of the colonies itself. In South Africa we see that in the initial period of colonization “mixing” was tolerated and even condoned. Actually the sexual relations between European men and colonized women aided the long-term settlement of European men in the colonies. Again, as AIAC readers may know, “Coloured” South Africans descend from European settlers—as well as from Cape slaves, indigenous Khoisan population, and other black people; because of that, they are regarded as being “mixed race” and often seen as distinct from the historically dominant white minority and the African population. There is of course much more to say about the Coloured identity and its fluidity, but the influence of Dutch settlers cannot be denied.
In Indonesia, the VOC and Dutch colonial powers specifically created the Indos (or IndoEuropeans) as an acclimatized, cheap workforce that would be loyal to the Netherlands. Within the colony, Indos had special privileges above Indonesian natives and below Dutch colonials, which ultimately resulted in their expulsion from Indonesia once it gained its independence. Needless to say a people of mixed origin—who were brought up and told they were European and were above the local populace during colonial times, only to end up in Europe where they discovered that they were in fact not European—have some serious identity issues to work through. That is, before they completely disappear off the map of Dutch self-knowledge and history. As with silences inherent in other parts of Dutch history, the Indo, too, is expected to disappear from the present, now that colonial times have ended.
Obviously, South Africa and Indonesia weren’t the only colonial territories that the Dutch set foot on. There is a clear need for more research when it comes to similarities (as well as the differences) between the different colonies and the influence of the Dutch. In the same vein, current Dutch race and gender relations have been greatly shaped by colonial endeavors. It is odd enough that the Netherlands takes on the end of American anti-miscegenation laws as a means to celebrate people of mixed backgrounds within the Netherlands, but it becomes problematic when these issues are presented as something new and unpoliced, when the Dutch have had such strong colonial policies related to the creation of new ‘people’ for their own profit.
Furthermore, current Dutch policies banning and preventing new immigrants from bringing over spouses from their motherland will have an obvious effect on the increase in mixed race relationships and children in the Netherlands. Often the idealized idea of mixed race children with “cute light eyes and curly hair” dismisses the ambiguous feelings of cultural belonging that underlie mixed race identities. For instance, it is not uncommon for a white mother to be asked if she adopted her child. In addition, it is often not recognized how mixed race children are privileged over black children in the media and popular culture, which further enforces the idea that ‘lighter’ children have more status and privilege.
Too bad that Balie and LovingDay.nl programmers ignore these serious identity issues and prejudices faced by both mixed race couples and their offspring as well as Dutch colonial history and the role it has played in creating people like us. But as usual, the Dutch just like feeling good about themselves as liberal and tolerant—they are happy to “celebrate” but not deal with anything difficult.
Fetishism of Dutch women for Africans and Asians:
http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Reader2007/reader4141.htm
For quite a while now I have been puzzled by the behaviour and preferences most Dutch girls exhibit. Oftentimes I thought my opinion and feelings about them were only my perception and not the real truth. Maybe they were stemming from hatred towards these girls because they never chose me? They and their attitude towards me certainly were part of (but surely not the only) reason I made the decision to move to South East Asia in 1997.
I have never been particularly popular with the Dutch girls. My problems were that I’m very average looking, not tall and quite shy. Until I went to Asia I had never had a girlfriend.
About 1.5 years ago I returned to The Netherlands because I was offered a great job here. During this time I have observed many Dutch girls both in my working environment and outside and I noticed that since the time I have been away, this weird behaviour and attitude has increased (worsened) tremendously. I have also spoken to numerous Dutch guys about the things I notice and most if not all of these guys agree with me.
The average Dutch girl has not only grown in size the last 10 years, but has also become a lot more stuck up and arrogant towards the NATIVE part of the male Dutch population. So much so that they don’t even hide their disgust towards them anymore as they still did 10 years ago. Back then they would not be interested in native Dutch males, but they would at least hide that disinterest behind a façade of fake interest.
This is especially the case with young, good-looking Dutch girls aged until about 26. These girls are almost without exception only interested in guys from the so called minority groups in The Netherlands. Black guys are the most popular (refugees from African countries and guys from Suriname and the Dutch Antilles etc.), followed closely by guys from the Arab groups (Moroccan, Turkish, etc). Guys from Indonesia (Holland has quite a large Indonesian population) are a little bit less popular but generally still do well with the Dutch girls. Last come the guys from other parts of Europe of which the Southern Europeans (Italians, Spaniards) are more popular then the Northern Europeans (Germans, British etc). The last ones are just slightly more popular than the native Dutch guys. The native Dutch guys, poor sods as they are, are dealt the last hand, and are literally left with the leftovers.
In the Sales Department of my working place they recently hired 3 beautiful 23 year old young women. Don’t ask me why, but they did. There are 4 native Dutch guys working there and one guy from an Arab background. This Arab guy is married, overweight and 38 years old. Within weeks all 3 of these girls were madly in love with this Arab guy, I am not lying! This is getting out of hand now because these girls are more busy now impressing the Arab guy and competing against each other then they are with their work. The Sales Manager told me he wants to take steps. I have a lot of dealing with the purchase dept and also with those young women but they never even greet me when I meet them in the hall or outside. They can hardly hide the look of disdain on their face when they see me. The other Dutch guys in the sales deptartment told me they are also pretty much ignored by the new girls. To put things into perspective: one of these Dutch guys in the sales department is a single, fit and handsome 28 year old lad who has a very nice personality. My Dutch male friends who work in other places see similar things happening between the Dutch girls and Arab or black guys working at their place.
Very interesting and in my opinion a real eye opener is the reaction and opinion from other Dutch girls in my office regarding the relationship between Y and the 3 girls. In my department there is a girl working who is about the same age of these 3 lovestruck women who naturally befriended the 3 girls from the sales department. She knows that they are in love with Y and we were recently talking about it. I told her how cold and unfriendly these girls were with me and this girl told me that that is normal. I should learn to see it from a woman’s point of view she told me. She said that Dutch guys, especially in an office environment never accept their female co-workers as their equal. Dutch girls really have to be strong and confident or else they will be walked over by the (native) Dutch males. What she said next baffled me even more. Her next statement was that Dutch girls cannot smile or act friendly towards Dutch guys because if they do so these guys will almost always sexually harass these girls. Of course I was not like that she hastened to say, but because these girls did not know me well enough yet they acted like that towards me for self protection. What about Y then was my next question, they sit on his lap and hug him whenever they can and think they are not observed. She said Y was a very lovely guy and she could fully understand why these girls adored him so I should be happy and glad they were so nice to him cos it proves how nice Dutch girls are. These were almost her literal words because I wrote them down immediately after our conversation.
I have a friend who hails from Suriname. He is a nice, married guy about 46 years old. We often go out together for a drink in town, and every time we go out girls half his age literally throw themselves at him. Most guys would take advantage of that but he is the faithful type, and actually doesn’t like the attention he gets. He is also at a loss about it, he obviously has many friends from the same place and told me they all experience the same, even his 140 kilo butt ugly Surinam friend has the girls falling for him wherever he goes.
There is a big lover boy problem nowadays in Holland. An estimated 12% of the young native Dutch girls fall prey to them. 98% of the lover boys are from a minority group, mostly Moroccans and guys from the Dutch Antilles. What these guys do is they make a young girl fall in love with them (easier then breathing for them) and when the girl is madly in love they make them work for them as prostitutes. Most of these guys have more than one girl working for them at the same time, some as many as 10!!
In my town there is a refugee centre. This is a place or compound where asylum seekers are being kept until they get the Dutch nationality. These guys have a lot of freedom and are not allowed to work so most of them hang around in the town centre during the day. Most of them are male, from black African countries, around 20 years of age. One of my friends works as security in the centre and told me the most amazing stories. During the day many Dutch girls come to the centre to meet their boyfriend. Because there are new refugees coming to and leaving the centre every day, many of these girls take their female friends who don’t yet have a refugee boyfriend but also want one to get one for themselves. These guys normally don’t have much money and are showered with gifts from their girlfriends. In no time most refugees have hand phones, nice clothes and bicycles. The refugees who have not much to do compete with each other over who has the prettiest and most girls and who gets the most gifts.
There is also a big difference about how the Dutch women who are in a relationship with a native Dutch guy behave compared to the girls who are in a relationship with a foreign guy. Dutch girls who are in relationship with a Dutch guy are never satisfied with the guy. They always complain about him and he can never do anything right. Compare this to the girls or women who are in a relationship with a foreign guy. Almost without exception they are very happy with the guy (even if he beats the living daylights out of them or if he strays every night which many of these guys do) and very proud to have him as their boyfriend or husband.
Granted most Dutch girls, after reaching a certain age (and a certain body weight), tend to become less interested in the foreign guys. They typically will have a couple of kids by then and their interest will shift from the foreigners to the more stable and more trustworthy Dutch guys. Would the fact that most foreign guys are by then not interested in them have something to do with that?
It is quite weird if you compare the behaviour of the Dutch girls to that of the Thai girls. In both countries you observe the same thing. The Thai local girls are also quite interested in foreign guys but often for altogether completely different reasons. The foreign guy the Dutch girl is interested in is normally not rich, has no job (50% of the Surinam and Arab guys in Holland are unemployed) and does not always have the most sincere motives. So one can say that the Thai girls are a lot cleverer than the Dutch girls or maybe a lot more street smart. Many of them would not fall for a guy if there was at least not some advantage for themselves in it.
The above might seem a rant from a jealous and frustrated white guy who could not get a Dutch girl but that is not anymore the case. Before 1997 it might have been which was also the reason that back then I thought it was only my perception and not how the majority of the Dutch girls really were. Now after 1.5 years back in Holland and looking at it from the side line because I’m not even slightly interested in any Dutch girl anymore, I can say it is true and quite odd. I don’t know if the girls in other Western European countries have similar behaviour, I guess not but I would love to hear from guys it is so.
http://unsafeharbour.wordpress.com/2012/02/09/who-is-attracted-to-who/
More info here: http://www.uu.nl/SiteCollectionDocuments/SW/Ercomer/digital%20publications/vantubergen04.pdf
Global data:
In the Netherlands, intermarriage rates are quite similar among Surinamese and Antillean men and women. 22% of Surinamese men marry native Dutch, while 26% of women marry native Dutch. Among the Antillean immigrants, 48% of men marry native Dutch, compared to 40% of women.
And to all this nightmare , this comes as the final gift to the innocent dutch women:
http://www.nieuwsblad.be/article/detail.aspx?articleid=DMF20140211_00974289
What is the solution to all this nightmare????????