Ukraine, Europe's enigmatic frontier

[Sol Invictus]

Its name can be translated as "borderland". It neighbours four EU states to the west and Russia to the east. But the country within those frontiers has long appeared a mystery to outsiders.

February 4 2010 | Telegraph.co.uk

Almost two decades after Ukraine won independence amid the ruins of the Soviet Union, it is best known to foreigners through a string of stereotypes while its own modern national identity remains a work in progress.

The breadbasket of Eastern Europe. The beetroot soup borsch. A gas crisis that left Europe shivering. Football striker Andriy Shevchenko. Dating agencies. Chernobyl. The Orange Revolution. Pole-vault champion Sergiy Bubka.

The contenders in the presidential election run-off Sunday are also best known by perhaps deceptive stereotypes - Viktor Yanukovich as the Kremlin lackey blamed for rigging the 2004 polls and Yulia Tymoshenko as the more pro-EU prime minister with the gravity defying hair braid.

Yet the strategically located country of 46 million - by area the largest in Europe (excluding Asia-straddling Russia and Danish claims through Greenland) - is set to play a pivotal role in the continent's future in its own right.

Will the real Ukraine please stand up?

Read More Here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatnews/7155268/Ukraine-Europes-enigmatic-frontier.html)

[d3cimat3d]

Actually the name Ukraina translates to 'the corner'

[Northern_Paladin]

The Russians will seek to Dominate the Ukraine to the detriment of Western Europe.

[DeusEx]

Sad but true.

[nisse]

Actually the name Ukraina translates to 'the corner'

...I don't believe you have any Ukrainian ancestry...


Етимологія слова «Україна» достеменно не відома. Згідно з однією з теорій, що оформилася під впливом польської і російської історіографії, воно означає «окраїну» або «прикордоння». Згідно з іншою теорією, якої притримуються більшість українських дослідників, «Україна» походить від слів «країна» або «край»[9].

Ukraine is not an ethnically homogeneous nation, and historically it has always been dominated by neighbours, but it would certainly do best to remain independent :)

It has never really played any terribly important part in the history of Europe, and I hope it stays this way. We are at our best when we only concern ourselves with us :D

[d3cimat3d]

...I don't believe you have any Ukrainian ancestry...



Krai = corner ;)

Also, I don't really have anything to due with Ukraine, besides being a citizen of Ukraine, since I was born and grew up there, other than that I'm very minimally Ukrainian by ancestry.

[nisse]

Krai = corner ;)

ugol/kut = corner

krai = edge/border/area ;)

[d3cimat3d]

ugol/kut = corner

krai = edge/border/area ;)

Whatever, same shit, I win.

[nisse]

Whatever, same shit, I win.

If you're going to nitpick instead of posting on topic, at least make sure you're right.

To be honest, I take offence at your apparent disrespect towards Ukraine, which is my motherland. Please explain why you feel being 25% ukrainian gives you the right to trash the country, and what exactly preservation means to you or link me some post where you have done so already.

[d3cimat3d]

If you're going to nitpick instead of posting on topic, at least make sure you're right.

To be honest, I dislike your apparent disrespect towards Ukraine, which is my motherland. Please explain why you feel being 25% ukrainian gives you the right to trash the country, and what exactly preservation means to you or link me some post where you have done so already.

1. Corner of the world, edge of the world, pretty much the same shit, don't get all technical on me, ok?
2. I'm not 25% Ukrainian, more like 12.5%.
3. I didn't trash Ukraine, I simply pointed out a fact that it's corrupt, to the point where any tourist will be drained of their money by police and other goverment officials.
4. It's not my fault that your motherland is corrupt, so don't get mad at me.
5. What gives me the right to talk about Ukraine? Well I was born in Simferopol, and grew up there, so it's my right just as it is any other Ukrainians right.

[nisse]

1. Corner of the world, edge of the world, pretty much the same shit, don't get all technical on me, ok?
ROFL...I'm not getting technical - look up the difference ;)


3. I didn't trash Ukraine, I simply pointed out a fact that it's corrupt, to the point where any tourist will be drained of their money by police and other goverment officials.
4. It's not my fault that your motherland is corrupt, so don't get mad at me.
There are ways of pointing out facts, and than there are ways of pointing out facts. I am perfectly aware of how corrupt Ukrainian officials are (and they are not as corrupt as you say...at least not in Kiev or Kharkov, Crimea is an autonomous republic anyway ;)).

And I'm not mad about it. I'm sad about it. A country is not the same as its government. That's one of the fundamentals of "cultural preservation", or we'd all be happy and PC.


2. I'm not 25% Ukrainian, more like 12.5%.
5. What gives me the right to talk about Ukraine? Well I was born in Simferopol, and grew up there, so it's my right just as it is any other Ukrainians right.
You mean any 12.5% Ukrainian's right, right? Birthplace doesn't mean much unless it comes along with traditions and culture - which doesn't seem to be the case for you...it's hard to pick up the culture when people just assume you are selling oranges.

[d3cimat3d]

There are ways of pointing out facts, and than there are ways of pointing out facts.


OK?



You mean any 12.5% Ukrainian's right, right? Birthplace doesn't mean much unless it comes along with traditions and culture - which doesn't seem to be the case for you...it's hard to pick up the culture when people just assume you are selling oranges.

First off, Moldovan and Ukrainian traditions are pretty much the same, got that whole Slavic thing going on. Secondly, it is my right, two of my great grandfathers died protecting Ukraine, so if anything, it's more of my right than it is yours.

Lastly, what kind of Ukrainian has "Russkaya" written under ethnicity. You don't even identify as Ukrainian, so shame on you.

[nisse]

First off, Moldovan and Ukrainian traditions are pretty much the same, got that whole Slavic thing going on.
ROFL...Ukrainian traditions aren't even the same as Ukrainian traditions. The fact that you don't realize this just underscores the fact that you're not familiar with them ;).


Secondly, it is my right, two of my great grandfathers died protecting Ukraine, so if anything, it's more of my right than it is yours.
Mongolians died protecting Ukraine (in the Red Army) does that give them any right? May be. Does it give their grandchildren any right? Hell no.

P.S. I'm surprised to hear that your grandparents were old enough to fight in WW2. Btw, a bunch of my *Ukrainian* (as well as Russian) great-grandparents died, but that's the price of war.


Lastly, what kind of Ukrainian has "Russkaya" written under ethnicity. You don't even identify as Ukrainian, so shame on you.
Historically, this is what people from my region of Ukraine have called themselves..."Russkaya" (not "Rossiyanka") as in "Rus" as in Kievan Rus. If you can't appreciate that logic, well, you aren't even all that Slavic likely.

[d3cimat3d]

ROFL...Ukrainian traditions aren't even the same as Ukrainian traditions. The fact that you don't realize this just underscores the fact that you're not familiar with them ;).



:mmmm:



P.S. I'm surprised to hear that your grandparents were old enough to fight in WW2.


Why don't you re-read my post. I said great Grandparents.



If you can't appreciate that logic, well, you aren't even all that Slavic likely.



I'm not Slavic, Slavs are people from the far east. My background comes from Moldova & Germany.

[Guapo]

my late grandfather spent his teens fighting in WW2. Anyway, Moldovan girls :D

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-12/07/xin_041202070940153908613.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2023/2534219721_d56fca5814.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2664/3686512633_fd4fb2b61e_o.jpg

:evilb:

[d3cimat3d]

Nelly Ciobanu

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/powerup927/mol.jpg


Natalia Barbu

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/powerup927/NATALIA20BARBU184216806.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/powerup927/mol2-1.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/powerup927/natalia_barbu-2.jpg

[nisse]

Why don't you re-read my post. I said great Grandparents.
So you did. Guess I was surprised for no reason :D. Makes your initial point even less relevant.


I'm not Slavic, Slavs are people from the far east. My background comes from Moldova & Germany.
Bingo - Ukrainians are Slavic and you are not. ;)

You're about as Ukrainian as those Haitian kids are Dutch, so be respectful to other people's countries ;)

[d3cimat3d]

Bingo - Ukrainians are Slavic and you are not. ;)

You're about as Ukrainian as those Haitian kids are Dutch, so be respectful to other people's countries ;)

1. You don't even know the ethnogenesis of your own people, shame on you;
Ukrainians are Iranic (Scythian) in origin, who later became Slavicized when the Slavs expanded southwards down the Dnepr, and then Ukrainians were ultimatley Turkified by the endless hordes of Mongoloid steppe Nomads from the far east.

So Ukrainian = Iranic+Turkic+Slavic Blend.

2. Like I said, I'm 12.5 Ukrainian from Kharkov, and I doubt those Haitians are even 1% Caucasian. :wink

3. What the fuck do you mean "be respectful of other peoples countries" You're not Ukrainian for fucks sake. You have Oryol Oblast listed as your ancestry, and then under ethnicity it says Russkaya, if you were actually Ukrainian it would say 'Ukrainka'. So which is it? Are you Ukrainian or are you Russian? Or wait, are you Ukrainian on mondays and switch off to being Russian on Thursday?

[nisse]

1. You don't even know the ethnogenesis of your own people, shame on you;
Ukrainians are Iranic (Scythian) in origin, who later became Slavicized when the Slavs expanded southwards down the Dnepr, and then Ukrainians were ultimatley Turkified by the endless hordes of Mongoloid steppe Nomads from the far east.

So Ukrainian = Iranic+Turkic+Slavic Blend.
You are confusing Ukrainians and *you* ;).


2. Like I said, I'm 12.5 Ukrainian from Kharkov, and I doubt those Haitians are even 1% Caucasian. :wink
*Caucasian* doesn't mean much ;).


3. What the fuck do you mean "be respectful of other peoples countries" You're not Ukrainian for fucks sake. You have Oryol Oblast listed as your ancestry, and then under ethnicity it says Russkaya, if you were actually Ukrainian it would say 'Ukrainka'. So which is it? Are you Ukrainian or are you Russian? Or wait, are you Ukrainian on mondays and switch off to being Russian on Thursday?

Read my post above where I explained the usage of "russkaya"...and if you are going to read my ancestry - read all of it.

ти знаєш де ці дві області, експерт з українознавства?
Russian translation: ты знаешь где эти две области, эксперт по украине?


Slobozhanshchyna / Poltavshchyna / Oryol Oblast'

[d3cimat3d]

ты знаешь где эти две области, эксперт по украине?

So there you go, you are only 2/3 Ukrainian, and not a full Ukrainian, just like me.
Besides those Ukrainian oblasts you're from happen to be the ones with the most Mongoloid influence, Congratulations ! :thumbs up

[nisse]

So there you go, you are only 2/3 Ukrainian, and not a full Ukrainian, just like me.
Besides those Ukrainian oblasts you're from happen to be the ones with the most Mongoloid influence, Congratulations ! :thumbs up
:rofl:
...says the part ossetian guy with Ukrainian ancestry from the same oblast' as me ;)...but I am sure all that ubermensch german blood redeems you, Mr. Hard Core Caucasian :D

Btw, I'm only 1/2 Ukrainian by blood, the rest is Russian (practically Chinese, right? ;))...but unlike you, I'm actually culturally Ukrainian :)

[d3cimat3d]

:rofl:
...says the part ossetian guy

At least South Ossetians never came in contact with any Mongoloid people, so that rules out me having any of your Genghis genes.



but I am sure all that ubermensch german blood redeems you


It really does.



Mr. Hard Core Caucasian


Proud of it.



but unlike you, I'm actually culturally Ukrainian :)

You know, I eat borsch and kakleta's too
:mad:

[Cail]

I'm not Slavic, Slavs are people from the far east. My background comes from Moldova & Germany.

Lol. You have as much ancestry from Germany, as you have from Ukraine - 12.5%. And that 12.5% is Volga German, which is already mixed. "Background from Germany" my ass :lightbul:. The rest of your ancestry is Gagauz (Moldovan Turk) (50%) + Caucasus (Ossetian) (25%). You live in some redneck town in America. You don't speak Ukrainian or know anything about Ukraine either. Gtfo.


Like I said, I'm 12.5 Ukrainian from Kharkov, and I doubt those Haitians are even 1% Caucasian.
You have told me that that 12.5% from Kharkov was in fact Russian. So either you lied to me, or to people in this thread. Nice :thumbs up.


At least South Ossetians never came in contact with any Mongoloid people
False

so that rules out me having any of your Genghis genes.
You're 50% Turk, lmao. Come out, Batu.


Actually the name Ukraina translates to 'the corner'
Krai = corner
Bullshit. Ukraina means "border land" literally. There is not any "corner" meaning to the work itself or its root.


I would ask you all guys, please don't take this Turko-Caucasus clown seriously, he is NOT Ukrainian, or any other kind of Slavic.

[d3cimat3d]

Lol. You have as much ancestry from Germany, as you have from Ukraine - 12.5%. And that 12.5% is Volga German, which is already mixed. "Background from Germany" my ass :lightbul:. The rest of your ancestry is Gagauz (Moldovan Turk) (50%) + Caucasus (Ossetian) (25%). You live in some redneck town in America. You don't speak Ukrainian or know anything about Ukraine either. Gtfo.


Seems like you know more about me than I know about myself.
How are you going to tell me what my ancestry is and what it isn't? Seriously shut the fuck up, you're annoying me right now.

My protestant religion was given to my family by my grandmother, who's family came from Hamburg, so as far as I know, I'm 100% German, culturally speaking.

And if that isn't enough, I'm sure this will be:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/powerup927/GODS.jpg

Jealous? You should be. My ancestors were speaking the rarest form of Germanic, wheras your Estonian and Baltic ancestors were speaking Uralic...

Uralic is 100% non-European... So why do you hang out at Euro preservationalist forums? You're a JOKE.



You have told me that that 12.5% from Kharkov was in fact Russian. So either you lied to me, or to people in this thread. Nice :thumbs up.


Wrong. I told you they moved to Kolomna Russia, I never said they originated from there. Dumb fuck. Keep trying to make me look stupid, I'll tell you when it's working.



You're 50% Turk, lmao. Come out, Batu.


Does this look like a Turk to you?!

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12841&highlight=surviving

No, he looks 10x more European than you. You far eastern piece of shit. Go back to the Urals where you came from.



Bullshit. Ukraina means "border land" literally. There is not any "corner" meaning to the work itself or its root.


Listen kid, you have no right to teach me about that. You have nothing to do with the Pontic region, understand me!?

'Krai' means edge, border, frontier, corner.

If you disagree with that, than you don't know shit about the Russian language.



I would ask you all guys, please don't take this Turko-Caucasus clown seriously, he is NOT Ukrainian, or any other kind of Slavic.


I'm not Ukrainian, nor any other kind of Mongoloid person of that sort. Thanks for making that clear to everybody.

[The Ripper]

Whiter Than Thou!

The American Disease I shall call it. :D

[d3cimat3d]

By the way, I am expecting to hear some lame response from Cail any minute now, His Slavic and Baltic cock suckers will likely make a presence here as well. Let's see what they can come up with ;)

[Cail]

My ancestors were speaking the rarest form of Germanic
Lol yeah, Turkish is a very rare form of Germanic indeed. Just some 3 mln people speak it in Germany.


If you disagree with that, than you don't know shit about the Russian language.
Roflmao, some 12.5% Slav who barely can speak some broken Russian (see below) will tell me about how good i speak Slavic.



Wrong. I told you they moved to Kolomna Russia, I never said they originated from there. Dumb fuck. Keep trying to make me look stupid, I'll tell you when it's working.
Lol you fucking lier. Here's a quote from PM you sent me:


Ja 12.5% nastoyashi Ruskiye ot Kolomna, tam gdeta ni ochen daliko iz moskvi. Babushka, Ona radilsa Kolomna a poyhala nutri Kharkov, Ukraina. E ejoo papa bil Nemetz, I mama ot Kolomna.

"I am 12.5% real Russian from Kolomna, somewhere not far from Moscow. My Grandmother, she was born in Kolomna and moved to Kharkov, Ukraine. And her father was German, mother - from Kolomna".

I won't answer to you anymore, since you lie all the time, invent things out of the blue to suit your current motives, i'm sick of it. Clown and lier, gtfo.

[d3cimat3d]

I won't answer to you anymore, since you lie all the time, invent things out of the blue to suit your current motives, i'm sick of it. Clown and lier, gtfo.

You fucking idiot. My Kharkov and Kolomna origins are inter-twined. She lived in both places, ultimatley ending up in Simferopol, Ukraine. So I am just as Ukrainian as I am Russian.

Don't call me a liar just because you fail to understand the context of my statement... Talk about taking things way out of context :rolleyes:

[The Ripper]

By the way, I am expecting to hear some lame response from Cail any minute now, His Slavic and Baltic cock suckers will likely make a presence here as well. Let's see what they can come up with ;)

Are you whiter than Ukrainians or Balts? :D

[Cail]

Like I said, I'm 12.5 Ukrainian from Kharkov
I told you they moved to Kolomna Russia


I am 12.5% real Russian from Kolomna, somewhere not far from Moscow. My Grandmother, she was born in Kolomna and moved to Kharkov, Ukraine.
Self-own.


So I am just as Ukrainian as I am Russian.
You're neither, Turk. Sandnigger, clown, lier.

//ignored.

[d3cimat3d]

Self-own.


You're neither, Turk. Sandnigger, clown, lier.

//ignored.


My family has origins in both Kharkov and Kolomna.
It's not my fault you're to stupid to understand that.

[Bridie]

Cripies. You Easterners are pure savages! :D

[The Lawspeaker]

:coffee: This reminds me why I am proud to be Western European.

[The Ripper]

:coffee: This reminds me why I am proud to be Western European.

I don't see how this argument would be somehow exclusive to eastern Europeans, judging by the vast number of pseudo-scientific speculation and bitch-fighting over the "whiteness" or "pureness" of individual members that goes on at TA.

[Sol Invictus]

:coffee: This reminds me why I am proud to be Western European.

Amen to that!

Brofist.

[Cail]

:coffee: This reminds me why I am proud to be Western European.

This retard is not Eastern European. He is middle-eastern (Turkic+Caucasus) in origin and American redneck culturally. You can't blame all Eastern Euros because of one clown who is 12.5%.

By the way check out this recent thread by "proud Western Europeans" :D: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12771

[Bridie]

By the way check out this recent thread by "proud Western Europeans" :D: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12771Well, after reading that thread I feel compelled to take back what I said earlier and re-phrase... Cripies. You males are pure savages! :D

10 points to the feminist movement. :wink

[Sol Invictus]

10 points to the feminist movement. :wink

Ohhh no. Hang on a minute there.. I've seen how your kind fights.. :D

[Bridie]

Ohhh no. Hang on a minute there.. I've seen how your kind fights.. :DIs little Johnnie afraid? :angel

[Sol Invictus]

Is little Johnnie afraid? :angel

Don't make me come down there!

[nisse]

You're neither, Turk. Sandnigger, clown, lier.

//ignored.

Finally someone said it...

I was hoping he would get my "selling oranges"-thing, but that would actually require some familiarity with Ukrainian or Russian culture. We've got a great word for people like him: черножопый.

Цитата из фильма «Брат»:
Кавказец:
– Не убивай, брат!
Данила Багров:
– Не брат ты мне, гнида черножопая!

[d3cimat3d]

черножопый

:rolleyes2:

I'm a black ass? Right... have you seen my skin color?... white as snow.

[Daos]

:rolleyes2:

I'm a black ass? Right... have you seen my skin color?... white as snow.

In that case your snow must be contaminated with some really nasty chemicals...:rolleyes:

[nisse]

:rolleyes2:

I'm a black ass? Right... have you seen my skin color?... white as snow.

Yes...and if you knew *anything* about Russian or Ukrainain culture, you'd know it ;)

1. Черножопый - Лицо кавказской национальности. Так же употребляется в адрес негров.

[DeusEx]

// не упомянуты лица с ближнего востока .

[d3cimat3d]

. He is middle-eastern (Turkic+Caucasus)



:coffee: Smells like bullshit...
despite speaking Turkic (which was force fed on them by the Ottomans)
Gagauzes are entirely European genetically.

Heres some info about the Gagauz:

""In particular, Gagauzes, a Turkic-speaking population, show closer affinities to their geographical neighbors than to other Turkic populations.""

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2007/02/more-on-origin-of-gagauz.html

:wink




1. Черножопый - Лицо кавказской национальности. Так же употребляется в адрес негров.

But I'm not just any Caucasian, I'm Ossetian:

""The Ossetians descend from the Alans–Sarmatians, a Scythian tribe.""

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ossetians


In that case your snow must be contaminated with some really nasty chemicals...:rolleyes:

:mmmm:

Anyways I will ignore all of you for now, as most of you descend from inferior Mongoloid tribes.

[nisse]

Heres some info about the Gagauz:

But I'm not just any Caucasian, I'm Ossetian:

""The Ossetians descend from the Alans–Sarmatians, a Scythian tribe.""



- Абрам, на улице евреев бьют!
- Сара, нам-то что, мы же русские по паспорту...
- Абрам, они бьют не по паспорту, а по морде!

And no, nothing Cail said smells like you ;)

[DeusEx]

I understand that we all live in a new modern tolerant society, right ?

[nisse]

I understand that we all live in a new modern tolerant society, right ?

If you're refering to the joke (a piece of folklore from my people :D), I'd like to point out that I quoted it to demostrate the irrelevance of his "paper" origins when his face that tells a different story :)

...and you are right...that's why people are on this site ;)

[d3cimat3d]

I'd like to point out that I quoted it to demostrate the irrelevance of his "paper" origins when his face that tells a different story :)


My face is that of a perfect human, chiseled features, well defined chin/ jaw, nice dark auburn hair... Metrically I resemble the Nazi propoganda posters.

You on the other hand; you morphed yourself with Bjork and the result turned out more Mongoloid than she already is, dosn't that say something about you?

[nisse]

My face is that of a perfect human, chiseled features, well defined chin/ jaw, nice dark auburn hair... Metrically I resemble the Nazi propoganda posters.
:rofl:

Please tell Jager about your German culture and perfect Nazi features...That would be so awesome! :D


You on the other hand; you morphed yourself with Bjork and the result turned out more Mongoloid than she already is, dosn't that say something about you?

Yes, it says that I look Chinese. You have a problem with that, черножопый?
The Chinese are a widely respected race that will soon own the world (and already owns America). We are good at calculus, we are numerous, and we can kill with one jopstick.

[d3cimat3d]

:rofl:

Yes, it says that I look Chinese. You have a problem with that?

I'm just saying, you have no right to call me a black ass when you're Mongoloid... even Arabs are higher on the racial heirarchy than Turanids like you.

[nisse]

I'm just saying, you have no right to call me a black ass when you're Mongoloid... even Arabs are higher on the racial heirarchy than Turanids like you.
I have every right to call you that - that's what my people call your people ;)
Whose heirarchy is this? Mr. Hard Core Caucasus's? :D

I'd take a good looking Chinese/Korean/Japanese over you any day. Then my babies will be cute little green-eyed "Turanid" elves :D.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3_htSK5C8VU/SwXxU44wbUI/AAAAAAAAAXU/JRxQq9FOLxE/s320/top_10_cutest_asian_baby_faces_2.jpg

The only Nazi poster you even remotely resemble, is this one:

http://02varvara.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/anti-semitic-poster.jpg

[Sol Invictus]

Slavic Battle Royale, get your tickets here, front row seats.:icon_yell:

[nisse]

Slavic Battle Royale, get your tickets here, front row seats.:icon_yell:

I think you are offending both me and my черножопый-friend there. He's not Slavic, and both of us take offense at you calling him that :P :D

[Sol Invictus]

I think you are offending both me and my черножопый-friend there. He's not Slavic, and both of us take offense at you calling him that :P :D

Is it true the Slavs get their names because the mighty Germanics made slaves of them or is that just speculation? :cool:

[nisse]

Is it true the Slavs get their names because the mighty Germanics made slaves of them or is that just speculation? :cool:

How else could it be with a Mongoloid people like ours? We do calculus, we no speak words. What you call us is what we are :D

[d3cimat3d]

- that's what my people call your people ;)


Only reason you call "us people" that is because you have a terrible inferiority complex - Anyways it dosn't matter, being Caucasian is a hell of a lot better than being Mongoloid. After all, it's the CAUCASIAN race.



The only Nazi poster you even remotely resemble, is this one:

http://02varvara.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/anti-semitic-poster.jpg

Right right.... Like I said earlier, Even that Jew is above the racial heirarchy than you Turanid folk are.


Self-own.


You're neither, Turk. Sandnigger, clown, lier.



Sure I am... Even if I was, it would be better being a Turk than looking like some Albino Korean guy.

[Cail]

Is it true the Slavs get their names because the mighty Germanics made slaves of them or is that just speculation? :cool:

"Slave" is from Latin "esclavus" (same). "Slav" is from Slavic "Slovenin" (endoethnonym). They're not connected in any way. Slavs were indeed often victims of Tatar and Ottoman slave trade, as were everyone who were unlucky to be in their vicinity. Thats before Russia wiped out Tatar Khanates (to the point that all what is left of them is some marginal small ethnos living in Volga area) and Serbs and Rzeczpospolita saved Europe from Ottomans.

[Cail]

P.S. Never heard of "mighty Germanics enslaving Slavs". Usually when they try to mess with them they got trashed severely. From Grunwald in 1410 to Stalingrad in 1942.

[d3cimat3d]

P, usually when they try to mess with them they get fucked severely. From Grunwald in 1410 to Stalingrad in 1942.

Actually, lets be truthful here. It was USSR who got 'fucked' in World War II. Axis inflicted much higher casualties; if I can remember correctly, it was ten dead Soviets for every one dead German. It was only USSR's endless hordes that won the war.

Metaphorically speaking, Germany walked away with only a scratch, wheras Russia was missing both of its legs, and USSR was never able to fully recover. So it was the Slavs who got 'fucked' ultimately.

IMO it would of been better if USSR surrendered and accepted Nazi agenda, that way the Soviets wouldn't have to deal with the 50 years of misery at the hands of Stalin.

BTW don't you Slavs think it's a little wierd that you let a non-Slav like Joseph Stalin to be your leader? Why let yourself be sub-dued by a foreigner?

[The Lawspeaker]

Metaphorically speaking, Germany walked away with only a scratch, wheras Russia was missing both of its legs, and USSR was never able to fully recover. So it was the Slavs who got 'fucked' ultimately.
Right... tell that to the citizens of Eastern Europe and former East Germany in particular.

[Cail]

Metaphorically speaking, Germany walked away with only a scratch, wheras Russia was missing both of its legs, and USSR was never able to fully recover. So it was the Slavs who got 'fucked' ultimately.
Lol. You have absolutely, i repeat, absolutely, no clue about XX c. history. WWII not only did not left USSR "without legs and never to recover", it was one of the factors that triggered it's golden age. Scale and rapidness of Russia's industrialization during the war was unseen by that time. USSR's decline was caused by completely different reasons and much later.
And if by "only a scratch" you mean loosing a war, being partitioned and occupied, paying insane reparations, having vast number of you scientific and industrial innovations seized by your enemies, receiving a most severe psychological blow (even now haven't yet recovered from it), then ok. (nothing personal against Germans of course, just being objective).

Just speak about things you can understand pls, like beer, tramps, cheezeburgers or whatever. Politics and history aren't for feeble minds.


IMO it would of been better if USSR surrendered and accepted Nazi agenda, that way the Soviets wouldn't have to deal with the 50 years of misery at the hands of Stalin.
Lol, ok. The likely outcome would be genocide, like what we've seen in Poland for example. Communism and Stalin sucked, but being gassed or deported to Siberia sucks more.


BTW don't you Slavs think it's a little wierd that you let a non-Slav like Joseph Stalin to be your leader? Why let yourself be sub-dued by a foreigner?
It wasn't Stalin as a person, it was Communism as an ideology. Russians suffered from it as much as anyone else, if not more. As for why did it took so long to overthrow that criminal regime - look at the modern West. Regime is not less, if not more, criminal, just slightly more subtle in it's genocide of Europe, but somehow it lasts. Vast majority of people are just sheep, they think and do what they are told. Overthrowing regime, even a tyrannic one, isn't that simple.

[d3cimat3d]

Just speak about things you can understand pls, like beer, tramps, cheezeburgers or whatever. Politics and history aren't for feeble minds.



Oh I'm sorry my feeble mind is inferior to yours, golden boy.:rolleyes2:
What I mean by "USSR was never able to recover"; I'm talking about something more important than economy and what else you are blabbering about. The stress that WWII caused in the Russian families echoed for generations, causing alcoholism, drug use, mental problems, and a host of other shit that you have no clue about. Those problems still remain to this day.




Lol, ok. The likely outcome would be genocide, like what we've seen in Poland for example. Communism and Stalin sucked, but being gassed or deported to Siberia sucks more.


Wrong. Only the Jews would be gassed, normal civillians would be un-harmed. Look what happened in the Occupation of France or any other Nazi controlled country, civillians were un-harmed.



It wasn't Stalin as a person, it was Communism as an ideology. Russians suffered from it as much as anyone else, if not more.

And that's Russians fault for being enslaved by Communism.

[Cail]

And that's Russians fault for being enslaved by Communism.
Yeah, and modern Europe was "eneuropeanized" by PC scum.

[Cail]

Wrong. Only the Jews would be gassed, normal civillians would be un-harmed.
Yeah, for example Poland have seen that. Hundreds of thousands ethnic Poles, not Jews or Gypsies, died in concentration camps alone.

[d3cimat3d]

More than 150,000 ethnic Poles, not Jews or Gypsies, died in concentration camps alone.

Prisoners of War. (captured enemy soldiers)

[Cail]

Prisoners of War. (captured enemy soldiers)

Lol. Why do i bother to discus with you, you just invent fucks out of the fucking blue. These civilians, PoWs are completely different story (and even PoWs deserve, by all moral and legal laws, humane treatment). Hundreds of thousands civilians died in concentration camps. Hundreds of thousands more (approx 250,000) died in Warsaw uprising. Women, children.

[d3cimat3d]

you just invent fucks out of the fucking blue.

:crazy:

[Cail]

:crazy:

Yeah you're so dumb that when you try to invent facts, you invent fucks instead. Cuz that bullshit can't be called "facts", even invented ones.

[Svanhild]

Metaphorically speaking, Germany walked away with only a scratch
Erm...no. 3.200.000 dead soldiers, 3.600.000 dead civilists, 11.730.000 expellees. 2.000.000 German civilists were killed after the war in the course of expulsion, 240.000 of them in consequence of rape! We lost 40% of our territory and were split in two countries till 1989.

A scratch? :puke

[Cail]

Erm...no. 3.200.000 dead soldiers, 3.600.000 dead civilists, 11.730.000 expellees. 2.000.000 German civilists were killed after the war in the course of expulsion, 240.000 of them in consequence of rape! We lost 40% of our territory and were split in to countries till 1989.

A scratch? :puke

Don't stain yourself by talking with this creature.

[d3cimat3d]

Erm...no. 3.200.000 dead soldiers, 3.600.000 dead civilists, 11.730.000 expellees. 2.000.000 German civilists were killed after the war in the course of expulsion, 240.000 of them in consequence of rape! We lost 40% of our territory and were split in two countries till 1989.

A scratch? :puke

Maybe it wasn't a scratch, but more like a bruise :writing_thinking:

But my point was, Axis did far more kills to the Soviets than the Soviets did to the Axis.

Just look at the statistics:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/powerup927/2473503049_24c81e89d4_o.png

Keep in mind USSR was only fighting Romanians/Germans on one front. Germany was still able to have multiple fronts and still didn't have as much casualties as the USSR did.


Don't stain yourself by talking with this creature.

Okay golden boy.

[Cail]

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/powerup927/2473503049_24c81e89d4_o.png

Yep, even your own image shows that. Military deaths of USSR and Germany are comparable (add to that Waffen-SS), more than half USSR's casualties are civilians, while Germany's civilian casualties are very small (compared to that of other countries). That's because USSR did not genocide Germans (on a scale comparable to that of Nazi genocides), while Germany specifically targeted civilians.


Keep in mind USSR was only fighting Romanians/Germans on one front. Germany was still able to have multiple fronts and still didn't have as much casualties as the USSR did.

Western front was nothing when compared to the eastern one. The war was decided solely in the east. Number of troops and divisions deployed on two fronts is absolutely incomparable. For example, German military casualties in the Eastern Front are 2,742,909, plus 1,230,045 in Soviet offensive = 3,972,954 soldiers and officers. German military casualties in the Western Front? 339,957 soldiers and officers.

On the other hand, German civilian casualties, killed by Soviets - 270,000. German civilian casualties, killed by western Allies (including bombardments of German cities) - 370,000.

Soviets, despite having seen much (incomparably) more fiercer combat, having killed 12 times more German soldiers, after having tens of millions their own civilians genocided (parents, children; not including the genocide of Poles and other eastern Europeans), had killed less German civilians than the western Allies.

[Basil]

Actually, lets be truthful here. It was USSR who got 'fucked' in World War II. Axis inflicted much higher casualties; if I can remember correctly, it was ten dead Soviets for every one dead German. It was only USSR's endless hordes that won the war.

You're a moron, who should read more historical books instead of trolling on the boards. Most of Russians killed by Nazis on the Eastern Front were innocent civilians whereas military casualties were approximately equal. Slaughtering of civilians isn't something to be proud of.


MYTH II: The Russians just threw billions of soldiers without rifles in front of German machine guns.

REALITY: The vast majority of German soldiers were killed, taken POW or otherwise incapacitated on the Eastern front. The Soviet to Axis loss ratio was 1.3:1 and the USSR outproduced Germany in every weapons system throughout the war.


According to meticulous post-Soviet archival work (G. I. Krivosheev in Soviet Casualties and Combat Losses), the total number of men (and in the Soviet case, about 1mn women) who passed through the armed forces of the USSR was 34,476,700 and through Germany’s was 21,107,000. Of these, the “irrevocable losses” (the number of soldiers who were killed in military action, went MIA, became POWs and died of non-combat causes) was 11,285,057 for the USSR, 6,231,700 for Germany, 6,923,700 for Germany and its occupied territories, and 8,649,500 for all the Axis forces on the Eastern Front. Thus, the total ratio of Soviet to Nazi military losses was 1.3:1. Hardly the stuff of “Asiatic hordes” of Nazi and Russophobic imagination (that said, also contrary to popular opinion, Mongol armies were almost always a lot smaller than those of their enemies and they achieved victory through superior mobility and coordination, not numbers).

The problem is that during the Cold War, the historiography in the West was dominated by the memoirs of Tippelskirch, who wrote in the 1950’s citing constant Soviet/German forces ratios of 7:1 and losses ratio of 10:1. This has been carried over into the 1990’s (as with popular “historians” like Anthony Beevor), although it should be noted that more professional folks like Richard Overy are aware of the new research. Note also that cumulatively 28% and 57% of all Soviet losses were incurred in 1941 and 1942 (Krivosheev) respectively – the period when the Soviet army was still relatively disorganized and immobile, whereas for the Germans the balance was roughly the opposite with losses concentrated in 1944-45.

http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/2009/05/09/victory-day-special-myths-of-eastern-front/

[Cail]

You're a moron, who should read more historical books instead of trolling on the boards. Most of Russians killed by Nazis on the Eastern Front were innocent civilians whereas military casualties were approximately equal. Slaughtering of civilians isn't something to be proud of.

Absolutely.

[Sarmata]

:coffee: This reminds me why I am proud to be Western European.

Yes mr " Lets Nuke Buenos Aires" (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12970) You're not like us Eastern barbarians:rolleyes::D

[Sarmata]

My face is that of a perfect human, chiseled features, well defined chin/ jaw, nice dark auburn hair... Metrically I resemble the Nazi propoganda posters.

You on the other hand; you morphed yourself with Bjork and the result turned out more Mongoloid than she already is, dosn't that say something about you?

:thumb001:You should post your face here: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=150603#post150603

[The Lawspeaker]

Yes mr " Lets Nuke Buenos Aires" (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12970) You're not like us Eastern barbarians:rolleyes::D
A non-European country would then be invading a European country for the second time. Clearly they didn't get the message back in 1982 so perhaps it should be spelled out for them.

A nuke would be a good idea. Also the Falklands is not heavily defended and I bet that the Argentinians wouldn't make such claims if Britain itself was right next door with some divisions in striking distance of Buenos Aires. For their cowardliness alone they ought to be put back in their place. A nuclear arsenal is a very good deterrent btw. And if the Argentineans wouldn't want total destruction they could better damn well force their government not to take steps against the rightful owner of some islands- and of course against it's citizens. Because living on the Falklands are British subjects and occupying them is aggression against the population. So an attack on Argentinian citizens (in case of an invasion of the Falklands) would be quite justified.

[anonymaus]

o hey gaiz wats goin on in dis thred?

[Osweo]

We've got a great word for people like him: черножопый.

Цитата из фильма «Брат»:
Кавказец:
– Не убивай, брат!
Данила Багров:
– Не брат ты мне, гнида черножопая!
:D But I prefer this old chestnut:
Контрольная работа у студентов - будущих дипломатов.
Преподаватель говорит:- Представьте себе, что вы посол СССР в одной из африканских стран. В один прекрасный день в гавани столицы этой страны всплывает советская подводная лодка, торпедирует самый большой корабль и погружается обратно. Вас, естественно, вызывают к президенту страны и требуют объяснений. Пишите объяснение.
Анализ работ:- Ну что ж, в основном все неплохо справились, Сидоров, пожалуй, лучше всех. Хотя у меня есть к нему несколько замечаний. "На @уй" пишется отдельно, "за@бал" - слитно, а слово "Черножопый" здесь нужно писать с большой буквы - вы все-таки обращаетесь к президенту суверенного государства!

Worth translating, I believe...

Exam question for students at the state college of diplomacy:
Teacher: Imagine that you are the Soviet Ambassador in an African state. One day, a Soviet submarine appears in the port of that country's capital, torpedoes the biggest ship in the harbour, and resubmerges. Naturally, you are summoned to give an explanation to the President of that state. Write your official explanation.
Analysis of answer;
"Well, I must say, your effort, Sidorov, was pretty impressive, the best in the class, indeed. However, I do have some comments... 'Fuck off' is written in two words, 'motherfucker' in one, and the word 'Black-arse' requires a capital letter in this context. You are after all addressing the head of a sovereign state!" :D

At least South Ossetians never came in contact with any Mongoloid people, so that rules out me having any of your Genghis genes.
Hmm...
Why do they share a lot of their folklore with their Balkar neighbours? Why do both have tales of the 'Glorious Narts'? Why have the phonetics of Ossetian received a lot of traits foreign to Iranian languages, but local to the Caucasus? All points to considerable absorption of non-Alanic genes in the ethnogenesis of the Ossets.

And who drove the Alans up into the mountains in the first place? Huns, Khazars and co.!

"Slave" is from Latin "esclavus" (same). "Slav" is from Slavic "Slovenin" (endoethnonym). They're not connected in any way.
But didn't that Latin word come from the Greeks? And didn't they invent the Skl- part due to their discomfort with the consonant cluster Sl-? I think we do come back to the Slavs at the end of this process, after all...

Slavs were indeed often victims of Tatar and Ottoman slave trade,
... and Frankish, I'm sorry to say. The Jews were important figures in this trade in captured Slavs in the Empire, indeed. Several Bishops condemned it, but the Kings were too financially dependent on Jewish finance to act. You are no unique example here, though. Pope Gregory found English children on sale in the slave market in Rome, indeed. All have suffered from this at some time or other.

Thats before Russia wiped out Tatar Khanates (to the point that all what is left of them is some marginal small ethnos living in Volga area)
The Volga Tatars are a large and self-confident people, not one to be so lightly dismissed!

and Serbs and Rzeczpospolita saved Europe from Ottomans.
And the Russians helped finally flush them out too! And all the other buggers down there in the Balkans. :thumb001:

P.S. Never heard of "mighty Germanics enslaving Slavs". Usually when they try to mess with them they got trashed severely. From Grunwald in 1410 to Stalingrad in 1942.
Look EARLIER! There's a reason why Slavonic for 'King' is 'Korol/Kral'... :wink

Where do I have to look to get to the bottom of the identity of this 'Cereal Killer' feller? I have no problems with Gagauzi, Ossets and Tatars and so on, just with those who talk nonsense. :p

[The Khagan]

Look EARLIER! There's a reason why Slavonic for 'King' is 'Korol/Kral'... :wink



Rus anyone?

[Osweo]

Rus anyone?

No. It's from Karl der Grosse. Charlemagne. Around 800 AD.

[The Khagan]

No. It's from Karl der Grosse. Charlemagne. Around 800 AD.

I know, I was adding to the fact that some Germanic peoples such as the Rus, who before Slavicisation, were Scandinavians, ruled over Slavic peoples. Small Germanic elite ruling over a primarily Slavic peasant class.

[nisse]

I know, I was adding to the fact that some Germanic peoples such as the Rus, who before Slavicisation, were Scandinavians, ruled over Slavic peoples. Small Germanic elite ruling over a primarily Slavic peasant class.

They were invited though :)... The ancient version of the CFO fallguys ;) :D

[Guapo]

I know, I was adding to the fact that some Germanic peoples such as the Rus, who before Slavicisation, were Scandinavians, ruled over Slavic peoples. Small Germanic elite ruling over a primarily Slavic peasant class.

Western Nonsense. Rus means light-brown, or "reddish-haired" and it is an old Slavic word related to the Sarmatian word rux - "bright". Serbian epic poetry, J.R.R. Tolkien's favorite read in the day, and folk songs are full of Rus-haired maidens.

[Cail]

I know, I was adding to the fact that some Germanic peoples such as the Rus, who before Slavicisation, were Scandinavians, ruled over Slavic peoples. Small Germanic elite ruling over a primarily Slavic peasant class.

That's a wrong idea. What really happened, was that a Norse Konung was invited to rule one of the Slavic polises, which was norm then and later. Polises were ruled by semi-democratic people's gathering "veche" (legislature branch), which elected and invited a "kniaz" - prince, to perform executive and military (and sometimes judiciary) roles. This custom held even in XIV century. Since there was no concept of nationalism then (it appeared only in XVIII-XIXc.), it was possible that Norse konungs can be invited just like Slavic kniazes (both peoples were heathens, and were pretty similar, so there would not be a clash of cultures).

After several generations they weren't Norse anymore, just Slavs already. The original konung that was invited (Rørik) and his son (Ingvar) had Norse names, but already Rørik's grandson had Slavic name (Sviętoslav). And it so happened that the future royal dinasty (of the whole Russia, not just one polis as originally) and lots of nobility descended from them. That (royal dinasty foreign in origin) was norm in Europe of that time, and even now btw. Modern English dinasty is German, for example. Before that were French et cetera.

[Sarmata]

Worth translating, I believe...

... and Frankish, I'm sorry to say. The Jews were important figures in this trade in captured Slavs in the Empire, indeed. Several Bishops condemned it, but the Kings were too financially dependent on Jewish finance to act. You are no unique example here, though. Pope Gregory found English children on sale in the slave market in Rome, indeed. All have suffered from this at some time or other.


It could be one of the reasons why we Slavs doesn't like jews(and vice versa). Inportant figures in slave trade bussines were also jews in Khazar khaganate(Khazars were also converted to judaism :rolleyes2:). Until Scandinavain/Slavic knez Swiatosław crush them and finish their "bussines". He might be consider as "Ukrainian". ;)

[d3cimat3d]

Rus means "reddish-haired" and it is an old Slavic word related to the Sarmatian word rux - "bright". Serbian epic poetry, J.R.R. Tolkien's favorite read in the day, and folk songs are full of Rus-haired maidens.

So the red haired people are the only real Russians? Interesting to note very few Russians actually live up to their name. I've only come across one ethnic Russian with red hair and even then, he had Caucasus ancestry.

[Cail]

So the red haired people are the only real Russians? Interesting to note very few Russians actually live up to their name. I've only come across one ethnic Russian with red hair and even then, he had Caucasus ancestry.

It does not mean "red". "Rusy" (русый) in Russian means anything from dark blond to light brown. It is indeed from I-E. root with meaning "bright". Red color (hair, actual red is another word) in Russian is called "Ryžy" (рыжый). "Rusy" and "Ryžy" are related, but not the same.

And btw there are plenty of Russian redheads.

[Monolith]

Thats before Russia wiped out Tatar Khanates (to the point that all what is left of them is some marginal small ethnos living in Volga area) and Serbs and Rzeczpospolita saved Europe from Ottomans.
Hmmm, could you expand on that? They were conquered by the Ottomans, were they not?

[Cail]

Hmmm, could you expand on that? They were conquered by the Ottomans, were they not?

Yes they were, but they fought a lot, defeated Turks in some battles, and had multiple rebellions, that stalled Turkish advance. If not for Serbian resistance, Ottomans would have much easier time conquering around.

[Guapo]

Yes they were, but they fought a lot, defeated Turks in some battles, and had multiple rebellions, that stalled Turkish advance. If not for Serbian resistance, Ottomans would have much easier time conquering around.

Don't bother. They don't like it when others talk about Serb heroisim.

[Moustache]

I would ask you all guys, please don't take this Turko-Caucasus clown seriously, he is NOT Ukrainian, or any other kind of Slavic.

As if that was a bad thing.

[Cail]

As if that was a bad thing.

On a European preservationist forum? Feigning being a Slav?

[d3cimat3d]

On a European preservationist forum? Feigning being a Slav?

When did I pretend to be a Slav? NEVER have I said such a thing, I just said I was born in Ukraine and have ties to that culture. So shut your fucking mouth.

I'm not a Turk, even if I was, I'd be a hell lot more European than you, Uralic scum. You Estonians and Balts should be in a Uralic forum, not here.

The fact is, I'm a hell lot more European than you Cail. I have ties to central Europe, and you're just some easterm Mongrel.

[Moustache]

On a European preservationist forum? Feigning being a Slav?

What about being a fucking know-it-all, that tends to drive people's temperature up, don't you agree?

Slavs do not need special protection. Haven't you lied about British citizenship in the past anyway?

CK is a moron, everyone know this - I don't see how it's news, 90 % of the thread is off topic. It's nice to see how easily people shoot their mouths off with slurs.

[Cail]

What about being a fucking know-it-all, that tends to drive people's temperature up, don't you agree?
I don't really get what you mean.


Slavs do not need special protection. Haven't you lied about British citizenship in the past anyway?
Lol, no, i haven't. That was the case on AF when pro-immigration clique (Wadaad and other cocksuckers) tried to accuse me of being immigrant myself, pointing out that i had UK citizenship, and i answered that while i did have it for convenience reasons, i do not consider myself British and do not plan to stay in UK, i came here only for the purpose of education.


CK is a moron, everyone know this - I don't see how it's news
It's news on this forum, cause he has just recently joined, and his reputation of a retarded troll which he has on AF/FBD hasn't yet reached everyone here. Though i took my time warning people about him.

[d3cimat3d]

I don't really get what you mean.


He means you think you know everything, yet you're only a child, barely made it out of his teenage years, and yet you always have to have the last word, as if you're special or something. GTFO you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.




It's news on this forum, cause he has just recently joined, and his reputation of a retarded troll which he has on AF/FBD hasn't yet reached everyone here. Though i took my time warning people about him.

Do us all a favor and get a life.



and his reputation of a retarded troll

I have a real life reputation to worry about, and how this forum views me is none of my concern.

[Cail]

He means you think you know everything
Quite the contrary, i speak only about things i do understand something in, unlike you.


yet you're only a child, barely made it out of his teenage years
Says a person with mental capacity of an average Gypsy.


, and yet you always have to have the last word, as if you're special or something.
I'm not special, i'm just smarter and better educated than you. Not an outstanding feat, to be honest.


GTFO you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.
I already told you, stick to posting about cars, whores, pot or whatever(preferably on other forums), don't ruin intelligent communities, they're just not good for your feeble mind.


Do us a favor and get a life.
My life is very good, thank you. Way better than yours, rest assured.

[d3cimat3d]

Quite the contrary, i speak only about things i do understand something in, unlike you.


Says a person with mental capacity of an average Gypsy.


I'm not special, i'm just smarter and better educated than you. Not an outstanding feat, to be honest.


I already told you, stick to posting about cars, whores, pot or whatever(preferably on other forums), don't ruin intelligent communities, they're just not good for your feeble mind.


My life is very good, thank you. Way better than yours, rest assured.

^Arrogant piece of shit.

You're neither smarter than me, nor is your life better than mine.

Just somebody with absolutely no life who trolls internet boards all day is what you are.

[Monolith]

Don't bother. They don't like it when others talk about Serb heroisim.
No need to whine, I was being curious. To tell you the truth, I thought our friend Cail here had a different vision of Serbs saving Europe from the Ottomans. It turned out I was wrong.

[Cail]

To tell you the truth, I thought our friend Cail here had a different vision of Serbs saving Europe from the Ottomans.

Which one :)?

[Cail]

^Arrogant piece of shit.

You're neither smarter than me, nor is your life better than mine.

Just somebody with absolutely no life who trolls internet boards all day is what you are.

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/2009/06/cat-talk-to-the-hand.jpg

[Monolith]

Which one :)?
There were Serb chauvinist during the dissolution of Yugoslavia that claimed that they saved Europe because Orthodox Serbs/Vlachs lived on the territory of the Croatian military frontier. Of course, they were the fiercest warriors, and while the indigenous Croats stood idle, they heroically repelled the Ottomans on their own etc. Sounds harmless, but still it served as a foundation myth for the creation of Serbian para-state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Serbian_Krajina) inside Croatia. I'm not saying that all Serbs think that way, but the number of hillbillies repeating that mantra is simply astonishing.

[Cail]

There were Serb chauvinist during the dissolution of Yugoslavia that claimed that they saved Europe because Orthodox Serbs/Vlachs lived on the territory of the Croatian military frontier. Of course, they were the fiercest warriors, and while the indigenous Croats stood idle, they heroically repelled the Ottomans on their own etc. Sounds harmless, but still it served as a foundation myth for the creation of Serbian para-state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Serbian_Krajina) inside Croatia. I'm not saying that all Serbs think that way, but the number of hillbillies repeating that mantra is simply astonishing.

Everyone has their myths, especially when it serves political goals, nothing new :(.

I just wish all Slavs will make peace with each other at some point.

[Monolith]

I just wish all Slavs will make peace with each other at some point.
Peace? I hope so too. :)

[Osweo]

Western Nonsense. Rus means light-brown, or "reddish-haired" and it is an old Slavic word related to the Sarmatian word rux - "bright".
I thought the Sarmatian word was more like 'roksh'? There's no good reason to link Русый анд Русь beyond the chance similarity of their names.

Russians have long had a hard time trying to digest the idea that their ethnonym came from without, for political reasons. Because of this, they have invented a great deal of 'Eastern Nonsense' to try to deny it. However, none of it is especially convincing.

Rus' is from a Finnic word for Swedes. Sorry! :P
(And haven't surviving Ryurikoviches been determined to be inheritors of the Uralic N haplotype?)

This custom held even in XIV century.
Even longer for Vyatka, no?

Since there was no concept of nationalism then (it appeared only in XVIII-XIXc.), it was possible that Norse konungs can be invited just like Slavic kniazes (both peoples were heathens, and were pretty similar, so there would not be a clash of cultures).
Numerous cases of Balts being invited to knyazit' over Russian cities could also be mentioned in support, aye.

After several generations they weren't Norse anymore, just Slavs already. The original konung that was invited (Rørik) and his son (Ingvar) had Norse names, but already Rørik's grandson had Slavic name (Sviętoslav).
The chronology of this phase is a terrible mess, unfortunately. There's possibly even a few Helgis to fit in, and saying that Svyatoslav was Ryurik's grandson is rather too confident.

I've only come across one ethnic Russian with red hair and even then, he had Caucasus ancestry.
It's not common, but I've known a handful.

When did I pretend to be a Slav? NEVER have I said such a thing, I just said I was born in Ukraine and have ties to that culture. So shut your fucking mouth.

I'm not a Turk, even if I was, I'd be a hell lot more European than you, Uralic scum. You Estonians and Balts should be in a Uralic forum, not here.

The fact is, I'm a hell lot more European than you Cail. I have ties to central Europe, and you're just some easterm Mongrel.
Hmm... Very endearing! If people insult you, you could try the effective technique of embarrassing them by maintaining your own dignity. As it is, well, I'm hardly charmed. :coffee:

[Guapo]

I thought the Sarmatian word was more like 'roksh'? There's no good reason to link Русый анд Русь beyond the chance similarity of their names.

Russians have long had a hard time trying to digest the idea that their ethnonym came from without, for political reasons. Because of this, they have invented a great deal of 'Eastern Nonsense' to try to deny it. However, none of it is especially convincing.

Rus' is from a Finnic word for Swedes. Sorry! :P
(And haven't surviving Ryurikoviches been determined to be inheritors of the Uralic N haplotype?)


You mean Ruotsi? Hungarians used to call Serbs Ratsi. Must be a Finno-Ugric thing.

[poiuytrewq0987]

A non-European country would then be invading a European country for the second time. Clearly they didn't get the message back in 1982 so perhaps it should be spelled out for them.

A nuke would be a good idea. Also the Falklands is not heavily defended and I bet that the Argentinians wouldn't make such claims if Britain itself was right next door with some divisions in striking distance of Buenos Aires. For their cowardliness alone they ought to be put back in their place. A nuclear arsenal is a very good deterrent btw. And if the Argentineans wouldn't want total destruction they could better damn well force their government not to take steps against the rightful owner of some islands- and of course against it's citizens. Because living on the Falklands are British subjects and occupying them is aggression against the population. So an attack on Argentinian citizens (in case of an invasion of the Falklands) would be quite justified.

Are you serious? Argentina is not non-European, it is a very European country with a Spanish heritage and a sprinkling of Italian and German.

[Angeliq]

I think the southern theory , which connects an origin of the term "русь" (ruxs-light, white) with roksolan tribes lived in south-russian steppes is more proved. It not seems to you strange why varyag's the Scandinavian origin have taken for the self-name a word of the Finnish ethymology.
As to accessory Ruric to N3 gaplogrup's it's not the fact,only the assumption))))) And even if Ruric really had гаплогруппу N3 is not the fact, that it's from Scandinavian.)))))


When did I pretend to be a Slav? NEVER have I said such a thing, I just said I was born in Ukraine and have ties to that culture. So shut your fucking mouth.

I'm not a Turk, even if I was, I'd be a hell lot more European than you, Uralic scum. You Estonians and Balts should be in a Uralic forum, not here.

The fact is, I'm a hell lot more European than you Cail. I have ties to central Europe, and you're just some easterm Mongrel.

It's not so polite of you. If that you have listed all concerns to Slavs you strongly are mistaken. We look as Europeans and we are Europeans. And rather if we have some from balts or fino-ugric, i don't consider it's something shameful and it doesn't give the basis to consider us not as Europeans.

[Jarl]

o hey gaiz wats goin on in dis thred?

No clue mate ;)


I think the southern theory , which connects an origin of the term "русь" (ruxs-light, white) with roksolan tribes lived in south-russian steppes is more proved. It not seems to you strange why varyag's the Scandinavian origin have taken for the self-name a word of the Finnish ethymology.
As to accessory Ruric to N3 gaplogrup's it's not the fact,only the assumption))))) And even if Ruric really had гаплогруппу N3 is not the fact, that it's from Scandinavian.)))))

Yup. Rurikid dynasty most probably had Scandinavian roots, yet the origin of the term Rus is not necesserily stemming from Germanic Ros. There are several hypotheses on that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rus_(name)

[Sarmata]

You mean Ruotsi? Hungarians used to call Serbs Ratsi. Must be a Finno-Ugric thing.

Old Polish word for Serb it's Rac. Racowie means also light cavalery, and according traditions Serbs-Racowie were progenitors of Polish famous Husary...

[Guapo]

Old Polish word for Serb it's Rac. Racowie means also light cavalery, and according traditions Serbs-Racowie were progenitors of Polish famous Husary...

They probably borrowed the name from Hungarians too. The Hussars reportedly originated in bands of Serbian warriors crossing into southern Hungary after the Turkish invasion of Serbia at the end of the 14th century. The first Hussar regiments were the light cavalry of the Black Army of Hungary.

Initially the first units of Polish hussars in the Kingdom of Poland were formed in 1500, which consisted of Serbian mercenaries.

[nisse]

Where is Cail and why isn't he giving us the official answeron this etymology thing?

[Cail]

Where is Cail and why isn't he giving us the official answeron this etymology thing?

The most credible version of "Rus" etymology is, indeed, Norse. For example, Arabs called mediterranean Normans of Sicily and France exactly the same way (Rus). Also Greek adjective "ῥωσιστί" in regards to Norse mercenaries in Byzantine Empire. Exact etymology is unclear, may be from O.N. "RóÞs" - "row", "RóÞsmenn" - rowers/vikings.

Slavic word "rusy" (colour) is most likely not related. It (and also "ryžy" from the same root, *rudsъ) is instead a cognate of Latin "russus" ("red", both hair and common colour). Actually most I-E. languages have this word for "red", f.e. Germanic "red/rot", Greek " ἐρυθρό" et cetera.

[Monolith]

You mean Ruotsi? Hungarians used to call Serbs Ratsi. Must be a Finno-Ugric thing.


Old Polish word for Serb it's Rac. Racowie means also light cavalery, and according traditions Serbs-Racowie were progenitors of Polish famous Husary...
I believe the words written in bold derive from the name of the core region of the medieval Serbian kingdom - Rascia (Raška). They were sometimes referred to as "Raci" on the territory of Croatian military frontier.

[d3cimat3d]

'Rus' is of Iranic origin... It means 'bright', often refering to the hair.

[Guapo]

'Rus' is of Iranic origin... It means 'bright', often refering to the hair.

Sarmatian! That's whut I fookin' said in the first place but nooooooo. Everyone's a know-it-all :D

[Guapo]

I believe the words written in bold derive from the name of the core region of the medieval Serbian kingdom - Rascia (Raška). They were sometimes referred to as "Raci" on the territory of Croatian military frontier.

I was keeping that fact on the down low but thanks anyway. It's the name of a river and a famous ski jumper from Czech republic, Jiři Raška.

[d3cimat3d]

Sarmatian! That's whut I fookin' said in the first place but nooooooo. Everyone's a know-it-all :D

The only know-it-all here is Cail, trying to mis-lead people with his bullshit, I'm sick of it...

Anyways my brothers name is 'Ruslan', which is a popular Ossetian name.
Ruslan is also a popular name used among Tatars, but it's originally not of Turkic origin, but has origins with the Iranic speaking peoples who inhabited southern Russia prior to Slavic and Turkic expansions.
The reason why he was named Ruslan because he was born with very blonde hair, so my dad called him Ruslan for that reason.

[Guapo]

Anyways my brothers name is 'Ruslan', which is a popular Ossetian name.
Ruslan is also a popular name used among Tatars, but it's originally not of Turkic origin, but has origins with the Iranic speaking peoples who inhabited southern Russia prior to Slavic and Turkic expansions.
The reason why he was named Ruslan because he was born with very blonde hair, so my dad called him Ruslan for that reason.

What's your background again?

[d3cimat3d]

What's your background again?

Mostly from various parts around the Black sea (Moldova, Ossetia, Ukraine) also I have quite a bit of German ancestry.

Anyways here's some things I found that support our claims. The Roxolani, a Sarmatian people, called themselves 'Ruxsalan', which in the Alanic language means 'bright Alan'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roxolani

[Guapo]

Mostly from various parts around the Black sea (Moldova, Ossetia, Ukraine) also I have quite a bit of German ancestry.

Anyways here's some things I found that support our claims. The Roxolani, a Sarmatian people, called themselves 'Ruxsalan', which in the Alanic language means 'bright Alan'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roxolani

I see. Scythians translates into "Wanderers" in Slavonic as well. Kind of like a biker gang I guess :D

[d3cimat3d]

I think the southern theory , which connects an origin of the term "русь" (ruxs-light, white) with roksolan tribes lived in south-russian steppes is more proved.



Okay nevermind, someone already explained this, I must of missed it.



We look as Europeans and we are Europeans.


Depends if you consider this to be European looking:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/powerup927/19-3.gif


To me this looks completely foreign.

[Osweo]

I think the southern theory , which connects an origin of the term "русь" (ruxs-light, white) with roksolan tribes lived in south-russian steppes is more proved.
А я би сказал, что ето совсем неяозможно доказать такую теорию. Где связь между словами 'русь' и 'рохш'? Где цепь сменений? Язиковедам нужно показать целий процесс етимологии; ето не достаточно просто найти чего-то похоже.

It not seems to you strange why varyag's the Scandinavian origin have taken for the self-name a word of the Finnish ethymology.
Все бивает на белом свете. :p У меня, на пример, ирландская фамилия но я все таки називаю себя Англичанином! Если б я посетил Россию пять-сот лет назад, я би говорил що я 'Аглицкий Немец'. Так било принято, тогда. Ети Варяги били в таком же ситуации. Славяне первоначално слишали о Варяжах от Чухонцев.

Есть очень много примеров в истории мира таких 'парадоксов'; Слово 'скот' в Шотландии - ирландского происхождении, но там на юго-востоке живут люди у которих нет гельских предок.

As to accessory Ruric to N3 gaplogrup's it's not the fact,only the assumption))))) And even if Ruric really had гаплогруппу N3 is not the fact, that it's from Scandinavian.)))))
Possibly Scandinavian, but still indicative of some Uralic ancestry.

Old Polish word for Serb it's Rac. Racowie means also light cavalery, and according traditions Serbs-Racowie were progenitors of Polish famous Husary...

They probably borrowed the name from Hungarians too. The Hussars reportedly originated in bands of Serbian warriors crossing into southern Hungary after the Turkish invasion of Serbia at the end of the 14th century. The first Hussar regiments were the light cavalry of the Black Army of Hungary.

Initially the first units of Polish hussars in the Kingdom of Poland were formed in 1500, which consisted of Serbian mercenaries.
Fascinating stuff, Gents! :thumb001:

Where is Cail and why isn't he giving us the official answeron this etymology thing?
Why do you trust him more than me?!?!?!? :fhmm:

The most credible version of "Rus" etymology is, indeed, Norse.
:victory0:

For example, Arabs called mediterranean Normans of Sicily and France exactly the same way (Rus). Also Greek adjective "ῥωσιστί" in regards to Norse mercenaries in Byzantine Empire.
Anti-Normanists have no good answer to this. Anti-Normanism is purely political in motivation, and disappointing in its 'science'. :cool:

Exact etymology is unclear, may be from O.N. "RóÞs" - "row", "RóÞsmenn" - rowers/vikings.
Makes sense. And a Western Finnic intermediary ties up all the loose ends. Let's not forget that the important early settlement of Staraya Russa is situated on Lake Ladoga. FAR from the Steppe.

'Rus' is of Iranic origin... It means 'bright', often refering to the hair.
Why are you simply repeating yourself, but with no facts or reasoning to back up your bald statements? The matter is clearly beyond you.

Sarmatian! That's whut I fookin' said in the first place but nooooooo. Everyone's a know-it-all :D
:wink

The only know-it-all here is Cail, trying to mis-lead people with his bullshit, I'm sick of it...
Charming, yet again! :rolleyes:
Cail is an educated Slavist. You are simply rude.

Anyways my brothers name is 'Ruslan', which is a popular Ossetian name.
Ruslan is also a popular name used among Tatars, but it's originally not of Turkic origin, but has origins with the Iranic speaking peoples who inhabited southern Russia prior to Slavic and Turkic expansions.
Again, you can't possibly prove that!
The older forms in Russian romances are 'Yeruslan', I believe. Probably nothing more than Turkic Arslan. Means 'Lion', I think. Occam's razor... :rolleyes:

Anyways here's some things I found that support our claims. The Roxolani, a Sarmatian people, called themselves 'Ruxsalan', which in the Alanic language means 'bright Alan'
You have not demonstrated anything, just repeated the same tired old dogma.

I must of missed it.
Must HAVE! :tsk:

Depends if you consider this to be European looking:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/powerup927/19-3.gif
I believe the girl, while not particularly blessed in terms of looks, is a native Magyar. She is thus a European. Some of her ancestors a millenium ago may not have been, but so what? She's one of us, and deserves better than to have her picture waved about by unpleasant people all over the net. :mad:

To me this looks completely foreign.
Who cares what you think? Read what a true European wrote:

It's not so polite of you. If that you have listed all concerns to Slavs you strongly are mistaken. We look as Europeans and we are Europeans. And rather if we have some from balts or fino-ugric, i don't consider it's something shameful and it doesn't give the basis to consider us not as Europeans.
:coffee:

[d3cimat3d]

People, don't be decieved by these two idiots (Cail, Osweo)
They are feeding you with false information.

'Rus' means bright in the Iranic languages.
End of story.

[Bridie]

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/powerup927/19-3.gif
I believe the girl, while not particularly blessed in terms of looks, is a native Magyar. She is thus a European. Some of her ancestors a millenium ago may not have been, but so what? She's one of us, and deserves better than to have her picture waved about by unpleasant people all over the net. :mad:
LOL!!!

I never realised before that you were a pan-Europeanist (I think I just made that word up :D) Os. :confused: Too much time spent in Russia, I expect.

[Cail]

People, don't be decieved by these two idiots (Cail, Osweo)
They are feeding you with false information.

'Rus' means bright in the Iranic languages.
End of story.

You are an idiot. There are Iranic words derived from this root, but that doesn't mean that this root is Iranic in origin. It is common Indo-European. Get a fucking clue. Russian word is from Proto-Slavic "rudsъ". This same very word exists in Germanic languages, Proto-Germanic "rauthaz", (hence Gothic "rauþs", German "rot", English "red"), and Baltic (Lithuanian "raudas"). Or is Latin "russus", Greek "ἐρυθρός", Old Irish "raud" also Iranic loans? There are Iranic words in Slavic, but that's not one of them. Go fuck yourself and stop spreading bullshit that your ass-for-brains produces.

[The Ripper]

You are an idiot. There are Iranic words derived from this root, but that doesn't mean that this root is Iranic in origin. It is common Indo-European. Get a fucking clue. Russian word is from Proto-Slavic "rudsъ". This same very word exists in Germanic languages, Proto-Germanic "rauthaz", (hence Gothic "rauþs", German "rot", English "red"), and Baltic (Lithuanian "raudas"). Or is Latin "russus", Greek "ἐρυθρός", Old Irish "raud" also Iranic loans? There are Iranic words in Slavic, but that's not one of them. Go fuck yourself and stop spreading bullshit that your ass-for-brains produces.

The Finnish word for iron is rauta and it stems from the same root. I'm not sure whether it is a Scandinavian/Swedish (raud = red) or a Baltic loan, though. Why the word for red was used to describe iron is because of the reddish colour of the iron ore found in lakes and marshes.

[Cail]

Anyways my brothers name is 'Ruslan', which is a popular Ossetian name.
Ruslan is also a popular name used among Tatars, but it's originally not of Turkic origin, but has origins with the Iranic speaking peoples who inhabited southern Russia prior to Slavic and Turkic expansions.
Again you're an idiot. Ruslan is a typical Turkic name, it means "Lion".

[d3cimat3d]

Again you're an idiot. Ruslan is a typical Turkic name, it means "Lion".

You don't know shit about Turkic people.

Go fuck yourself.

[The Ripper]

You don't know shit about Turkic people.

Go fuck yourself.

Can I haz kebab?

[Cail]

You don't know shit about Turkic people.

Go fuck yourself.

http://tr.wiktionary.org/wiki/arslan :crazy:

http://tt.wiktionary.org/wiki/арыслан

"Aryslan" is Kypchak Turkic (including Tatar):



Academic equivalent
Panthera leo

Substantive
арыслан.

Inflective

Aryslan -> Ruslan. It is not connected with Rus (Norse) or "rusy" (Slavic derived from common IE) in any way.

[d3cimat3d]

Can I haz kebab?

Hehe, I don't think Pontic Turks are big on Kebabs, that's more of Anatolian thing (correct me if I'm wrong)


http://tr.wiktionary.org/wiki/arslan :crazy:

http://tt.wiktionary.org/wiki/арыслан

"Aryslan" is Kypchak Turkic (including Tatar):



Aryslan -> Ruslan. It is not connected with Rus (Norse) or "rusy" (Slavic derived from common IE) in any way.

Say's who? A idiot who can't even spell the word Gypsy?


Lol. Gtfo back to school, Gipsy.

:rolleyes:

Anyways, I pointed out earlier that 'Rus' was used by Turkics, but in turn, they got it from the Iranic speaking people of the steppes, whom they conquered.





Anyways my brothers name is 'Ruslan', which is a popular Ossetian name.
Ruslan is also a popular name used among Tatars, but it's originally not of Turkic origin, but has origins with the Iranic speaking peoples who inhabited southern Russia prior to Slavic and Turkic expansions.
The reason why he was named Ruslan because he was born with very blonde hair, so my dad called him Ruslan for that reason.


So no need to educate me, instead you should educate yourself how to spell correctly. For future reference, it's G-Y-P-S-Y.

[Cail]

Anyways, I pointed out earlier that 'Rus' was used by Turkics, but in turn, they got it from the Iranic speaking people of the steppes, whom they conquered.
No, you said that "Rus" and "Rusy" in Russian is Iranic in origin. Which is bullshit.


Say's who? A idiot who can't even spell the word Gypsy?
So no need to educate me, instead you should educate yourself how to spell correctly. For future reference, it's G-Y-P-S-Y.
Nope, you're not a Gypsy (you don't deserve even that, IM is smarter than you), you're a Gipsy. it's an acronym.

Gross Idiotic Paederastic Stinking Yemeni.

Your description exactly.

[d3cimat3d]

Nope, you're not a Gypsy, you're a Gipsy. it is an acronym.

Gross Idiotic Paederastic Stinking Yemeni.

Your description exactly.



Nice trying to play that one off, but it's obvious you didn't misspell that word on purpose.

:thumb001:

So here we are people! Your 'King of etymology' is nothing more than a illiterate peasant. Sure, he can bind empty words together and create bullshit that almost sounds believable, but he can't even spell simple words:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/powerup927/KART.jpg

Do us all a favor Cail, and go to this link http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91&highlight=change

Change your name from Cail, to Fail.

I'm done with you, time to add you to my ignore list. :D

[Angeliq]

Okay nevermind, someone already explained this, I must of missed it.



Depends if you consider this to be European looking:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/powerup927/19-3.gif


To me this looks completely foreign.

And it's spoken the person who looks like so:
http://s002.radikal.ru/i197/1002/8b/79632bc5f841t.jpg (http://radikal.ru/F/s002.radikal.ru/i197/1002/8b/79632bc5f841.jpg.html)

I'm sorry,but in comparison with you, i'm "true Nordic ideal", :D though I'm Slavic))))))))You look like as tupical Kavkaz man or gypsy. It's so “European”.

[Cail]

Ruslan is also a popular name used among Tatars, but it's originally not of Turkic origin
And yes it of Turkic origin. This word also exists in Turkish, Turkmen, Crimean and other Turkic languages, not only Tatar.

[d3cimat3d]

I'm sorry,but in comparison with you, i'm "true Nordic ideal",


Not with your Basketball shaped head.
:D! Why don't you go ask Himmler what he thought about you 'hordes from the east'...

And if by 'ideal' you are refering to old Nazi beliefs, than make no mistake they would execute you on the spot for being a untermensch Slav, but me? They would make me into a:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/powerup927/GeorgishLegion.jpg

That's right, Kavkaz people were held in high regards.



You look like as tupical Kavkaz man. It's so “European”.


By the way, Cail, I see you trying to come through. I thought I explained to you that I added you on my ignore list!? Did you not get the message?

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/powerup927/CAIL.jpg

[Cail]

You're spewing bullshit. All your arguments (in this and other threads) are "this is so because it is so, and if you say the other way then you're wrong". Clown.That's called logic. Idiot.
:rolleyes2:

[Cail]

Not with your Basketball shaped head.
:D! Why don't you go ask Himmler what he thought about you 'hordes from the east'...
Ye sure, i want to ask this man -
http://www.npi-news.dk/Himmler.jpg
about who is Nordic and who is "hordes from the east".

[d3cimat3d]

^ Sorry buddy, you're not coming through :ohwell:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/powerup927/CAIL-1.jpg

[Cail]

So our local sandnigger is also a coward :D. You should honour kill yourself (i know you read this, turning ignore on-off is visible, you idiot :rolleyes2:).

[d3cimat3d]

Someone should quote Fail so I can see what he's saying.
I'm dying from curiosity.

[Cail]

Someone should quote Fail so I can see what he's saying.
I'm dying from curiosity.

Pls don't, so he doesn't get an excuse for pretending not to read.

[Svanhild]

The last few pages were a waste of bandwidth. Let's talk about something interesting. How do the Slavs of the board evaluate the victory of Viktor Janukowitsch in the run-off vote against Julia Timoschenko? German mainstream media were reporting with regrets about it therefore I suppose it's a good result?

[Cail]

The last few pages were a waste of bandwith. Let's talk about something interesting. How do the Slavs of the board evaluate the victory of Viktor Janukowitsch in the run-off vote against Julia Timoschenko? German mainstream media were reporting about it with regrets therefore I suppose it's a good result?

To be honest i do not know. I dislike Janukovich as a person and politician, but we can't know how good he is as a president (as a leader/manager). I guess we'll see if he succeeds in economical matters, which is the most important for Ukraine atm imo.

[Stegura]

And it's spoken the person who looks like so:
http://s002.radikal.ru/i197/1002/8b/79632bc5f841t.jpg (http://radikal.ru/F/s002.radikal.ru/i197/1002/8b/79632bc5f841.jpg.html)

I'm sorry,but in comparison with you, i'm "true Nordic ideal",You look like as tupical Kavkaz man or gypsy. It's so “European”.

Cereal Killer thinks otherwise. . . . . . . . . ..


My face is that of a perfect human, chiseled features, well defined chin/ jaw, nice dark auburn hair... Metrically I resemble the Nazi propoganda posters.

Pure Übermensch!! :D

[RoyBatty]

The Russians will seek to Dominate the Ukraine to the detriment of Western Europe.

A substantial part of Ukraine's population are ethnic Russians. Why shouldn't Ukraine have close relations with Russia?


Sad but true.

What's so special about Western Europe? "EUrofagian values" like

- Mass immigration from the Middle East, Africa and the Islamic World
- Feminazism
- Gay "Rights" (which are more special than normal rights)
- Massive surveillance programs and databases
- Endless new invented taxes and laws to control people
- The destruction of the Western European Nation States in favour of a multi-kultied melting pot like the USA

Whoever thinks all the above things are so great and worth losing one's sovereignty for through EU "integration" (assimilation is a more accurate term) is a moron or a Soros lackey.

[DeusEx]

You do not have completely not educated (since school) president, who took off people hats , rape girls and as result went into prison. With all the ensuing consequences.
And that would be first person of Ukraine state ... http://www.yaplakal.com/html/emoticons/alkash.gif http://www.yaplakal.com/html/emoticons/fuck.gif http://www.yaplakal.com/html/emoticons/dead.gif
http://www.yapfiles.ru/files/69505/1232406963_2lncun7.gif

[Guapo]

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/powerup927/GeorgishLegion.jpg

That's right, Kavkaz people were held in high regards.

Nazis used everyone as their cannon fodder :rolleyes: :D :D :D

http://woa2.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/nazi_fail_3.jpg


http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c193/Sturmannlee/OstBattalion/Indian4.jpg
Sieg Heil fascist DORKS!!!1 \0

[nisse]

You do not have completely not educated (since school) president, who took off people hats , rape girls and as result went into prison. With all the ensuing consequences.

Better than the alternative: a half-"caucasian" jew ;)

[nisse]

Someone should quote Fail so I can see what he's saying.
I'm dying from curiosity.

I'm not going to quote him (since I hope you do actually die from curiosity :D), but basically he provided evidence disproving all of your statements that could be called arguments by any stretch ;).

As for Himmler and Slavs, tell that to all the Polish children he stole :mad:

[The Khagan]

As for Himmler and Slavs, tell that to all the Polish children he stole :mad:

*Cues mental image of Himmler running around stuffing Polish children into burlap sack*

[d3cimat3d]

Better than the alternative: a half-"caucasian" jew ;)

Caucasians are not Jewish, nor do they resemble Jews the least bit when it comes to genetics.



I'm not going to quote him (since I hope you do actually die from curiosity :D),


Very well than, I will pray you get cancer tonight.



but basically he provided evidence disproving all of your statements that could be called arguments by any stretch ;).


That's not true and you know it. I had two other people on here (angeliq and el guapo) who suggested the EXACT same thing for the origin of the word 'Rus', which is Iranic. That only backs up my claim that much more.

So it's the words of a illiterate guy who can't even spell gypsy , vs. us 3.



As for Himmler and Slavs, tell that to all the Polish children he stole :mad:



Yah well you're not Polish, your some far eastern mongrel mix, so what's your point.
Besides, some areas in Poland were once German lands, where German people settled.
Germany has been conquering Slavs since the days of the Tuetonic Order.


Anyways, here's a interesting word, that applies to you and Cail coming to each others aids, defending Russia and what not.

"Bias is a term used to describe a tendency or preference towards a particular perspective, ideology or result"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias

[Monolith]

:yawn:

[Sarmata]

Besides, some areas in Poland were once German lands, where German people settled.
Germany has been conquering Slavs since the days of the Tuetonic Order.[/B]


It will be suprise for you but almost all Germans left Poland in 1945...So we Poles are not Germanic People:rolleyes:;)Moreover R1a1 haplogroup connected us with those "far eastern mongrels", Russians, Ukrainians etc.
Teutonic Order conquered Baltic Prussians, and they tried to conquered our lands(Order) but united Polish and Lithuanian forces crushed them in 1410 under Grunwald (or Tannenberg if you want)...
But I'm not a history teacher so please back to school, read some history books....OK?

[Sarmata]

The last few pages were a waste of bandwidth. Let's talk about something interesting. How do the Slavs of the board evaluate the victory of Viktor Janukowitsch in the run-off vote against Julia Timoschenko? German mainstream media were reporting with regrets about it therefore I suppose it's a good result?

Janukowitsch it's leader of pro-Russian faction. Victory of Janukowitsch means closer relations with Russia. It's rather not good information for Western Europe, becouse another Russian puppet state are now close in to our borders(to Polish border in fact).

[nisse]

Caucasians are not Jewish, nor do they resemble Jews the least bit when it comes to genetics.
1. She's 0.5 jewish + 0.5 armenian/gerogian (not sure or care which).
2. I don't care who they resemble genetically - both are foreign and unwelcome in Ukraine, as far as I am concerned. :D


Very well than, I will pray you get cancer tonight.
Good thing I'm not under the jurisdiction of your god :D.


That's not true and you know it. I had two other people on here (angeliq and el guapo) who suggested the EXACT same thing for the origin of the word 'Rus', which is Iranic. That only backs up my claim that much more.
1 theory, and not the one I believed (that was bias...but now I've looked at the evidence for both and my initial belief was reaffirmed :D). That was not the only thing being discussed. ;)


So it's the words of a illiterate guy who can't even spell gypsy , vs. us 3.
LOL, did you get Angeliq's and El Guapo's permission to include them in an "us" with you?

If I was either of them I'd be offended.


Yah well you're not Polish, your some far eastern mongrel mix, so what's your point. Besides, some areas in Poland were once German lands, where German people settled. Germany has been conquering Slavs since the days of the Tuetonic Order.
Yes...Please keep in mind that my Japanese ancestors were Germany's best allies ;)


Anyways, here's a interesting word, that applies to you and Cail coming to each others aids, defending Russia and what not.
:rofl:

you poor thing, you don't speak even 1 language well, I'd cry if I wasn't laughing...oh wait, I'm laughing so hard my eyes are getting all teary...tis all good :D

:rofl:

p.s. No "aid", I just think your stupidity is hilarious and laughter makes one live longer ;)

[Svanhild]

It will be suprise for you but almost all Germans left Poland in 1945...
They...left? What an euphemism for expulsion and mass deportation. FYI: Parts of my family "left" as well. Some of them "left" Poland and had to "leave" their life a few days later.

[nisse]

Janukowitsch it's leader of pro-Russian faction. Victory of Janukowitsch means closer relations with Russia. It's rather not good information for Western Europe, becouse another Russian puppet state are now close in to our borders(to Polish border in fact).

LOL, well, pardon Ukraine for not choosing the best president for your purposes :rolleyes:...he's better for Ukraine, since even being Russia's puppet (which Ukraine won't be) is still better than being America's puppet ;)

[The Lawspeaker]

LOL, well, pardon Ukraine for not choosing the best president for your purposes :rolleyes:...he's better for Ukraine, since even being Russia's puppet (which Ukraine won't be) is still better than being America's puppet ;)
What's the difference between a turd sandwich and a giant douche ?

[Sarmata]

LOL, well, pardon Ukraine for not choosing the best president for your purposes :rolleyes:...he's better for Ukraine, since even being Russia's puppet (which Ukraine won't be) is still better than being America's puppet ;)

Time will show if Janukowitsch will be so good president for Ukraine(I wish you luck)... I know that Russia are winning Eastern Europe for their own goal.

[d3cimat3d]

So we Poles are not Germanic People:rolleyes:;)


Obviously not.




Teutonic Order conquered Baltic Prussians, and they tried to conquered our lands(Order) but united Polish and Lithuanian forces crushed them in 1410 under Grunwald (or Tannenberg if you want)...


So what? Moldavia dosn't get any credit for helping your sorry Polish asses?
Why don't you tell the full story of Grunwald, and not clip out some parts that suite your interests.

According to the battle accounts, only 12 Polish knights died. That means Moldavia did all the work, and yet you get take all the credit.
Give me a fucking break.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavia

As far as Ukraine is concerned. It should be split in two between Russian cock suckers, and NATO cock suckers. Russia is the one who carved the borders of each republic after the collapse of the USSR.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/powerup927/elect.gif

[Loki]

As far as Ukraine is concerned. It should be split in two between Russian cock suckers, and NATO cock suckers. Russia is the one who carved the borders of each republic after the collapse of the USSR.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/powerup927/elect.gif

This is a good idea, actually. It would solve a lot of internal strife within Ukrainian politics, and also solve some hot international disputes with Russia/NATO. Obviously NATO won't like the idea, since it would give Russia once again full control over the Black Sea/Crimea region and the Sevastopol naval base.

[nisse]

This is a good idea, actually. It would solve a lot of internal strife within Ukrainian politics, and also solve some hot international disputes with Russia/NATO. Obviously NATO won't like the idea, since it would give Russia once again full control over the Black Sea/Crimea region and the Sevastopol naval base.

That's not a good idea at all :mad:

Ukraine should split up (or at least become a federation with more power given to the local governments) but no way will it ever be good for any part of Ukraine to be integrated into NATO or Russia.

The reason Yanukovich's victory doesn't mean much in terms of a political course to "integrate" into Russia, is because people don't really trust him or Russia, they just mistrust NATO more. To suggest that it has to be one or the other without a possibility for an independent Ukraine is silly. Ukraine is a pretty large country with economic and cultural ties to its neighbours on all sides, there is absolutely no need to it to integrate into anything :mad:

[Loki]

What about the areas where the majority of residents are ethnic Russians, like the Crimea? :)

[Sarmata]

So what? Moldavia dosn't get any credit for helping your sorry Polish asses?
Why don't you tell the full story of Grunwald, and not clip out some parts that suite your interests.

According to the battle accounts, only 12 Polish knights died. That means Moldavia did all the work, and yet you get take all the credit.
Give me a fucking break.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavia


You just rewrite history man:D:thumb001: There was in fact Moldavian units in Grunwald battle, amongst Russins and Others. It was light cavalery-how many hundreds 1,2(?) who can't stand against heavy armored Teutonic knights...Thanks for your participation but/sorry it was just little contribution for victory. Besides we were your protectors for over 100 years;)
Your story about 12 Polish knights who died in battle is even more interresting...have you got some link for this fairy tale?:)

[Sarmata]

That's not a good idea at all :mad:

Ukraine should split up (or at least become a federation with more power given to the local governments) but no way will it ever be good for any part of Ukraine to be integrated into NATO or Russia.

The reason Yanukovich's victory doesn't mean much in terms of a political course to "integrate" into Russia, is because people don't really trust him or Russia, they just mistrust NATO more. To suggest that it has to be one or the other without a possibility for an independent Ukraine is silly. Ukraine is a pretty large country with economic and cultural ties to its neighbours on all sides, there is absolutely no need to it to integrate into anything :mad:

If Ukraina will split it's obvious that Eastern part will join Russia...

[d3cimat3d]

have you got some link for this fairy tale?:)

IDK not a very reliable source, but I don't care enough of Polish history to actually read a book on it. According to wikipedia, 12 Polish knights died, that doesn't sound believable to me, but that's what it says.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grunwald

[nisse]

If Ukraina will split it's obvious that Eastern part will join Russia...
How is that obvious? :rolleyes:

Note the geography of the Ukrainian Free Terretory (while it existed):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c3/Makhnowia.png/800px-Makhnowia.png

As for Russians in Ukraine, that means nothing - ethnic Ukrainians make up a huge percentage of Russia's population (although you wouldn't see it from the census) same thing for Russians in Ukraine, where you live detemines your ethnicity when it's a choice between those two (some people from Russia who speak Ukrainian in the family identify as Russians and vise versa).

[Loki]

... I will pray you get cancer tonight.


Oh I see I missed this comment. I never want to see you write any such stuff about other members here again, I hope that is clear.

[Loki]

As for Russians in Ukraine, that means nothing - ethnic Ukrainians make up a huge percentage of Russia's population (although you wouldn't see it from the census) same thing for Russians in Ukraine, where you live detemines your ethnicity when it's a choice between those two (some people from Russia who speak Ukrainian in the family identify as Russians and vise versa).

Actually, I have to disagree here. There is a difference between scattered Ukrainians living all over Russia, esp in the largest cities, and large areas like Crimea, which has always had a majority ethnic Russian population. The current Ukrainian borders were drawn up without much afterthought, and it will remain an unsettled situation until there comes a more realistic solution that takes into account dominant ethnic groups in certain areas.

[Cail]

Actually, I have to disagree here. There is a difference between scattered Ukrainians living all over Russia, esp in the largest cities, and large areas like Crimea, which has always had a majority ethnic Russian population. The current Ukrainian borders were drawn up without much afterthought, and it will remain an unsettled situation until there comes a more realistic solution that takes into account dominant ethnic groups in certain areas.

An adequate solution would be a strong and well-thought Ukrainian nationalist movement. Not anti-Russian, not Neo-Nazi (like last attempts were. Not a wonder they failed miserably) or smth like that, but a good, decent, Ukrainian national movement, that would be appealing to (among others) Russian-speaking youth. If Ukrainian government manages to create something along these lines, PLUS finally stabilize and improve economy, Ukraine will reunite ideologically pretty fast imo. As soon as "Soviets" die out (crazy communist granmas are/were a problem even in Baltic states, let alone Ukraine).

[Loki]

... a good, decent, Ukrainian national movement, that would be appealing to (among others) Russian-speaking youth. .

Why would Russian-speaking youth feel patriotic about Ukrainian nationalism? It doesn't make any sense and is unrealistic.

Lukhansk, Donetsk and Crimea should be incorporated into the Russian Federation, based on the demographics:

Percentage of Russians in Ukraine

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/46/Ukraine_cencus_2001_Russian.svg/621px-Ukraine_cencus_2001_Russian.svg.png

Percentage of Ukrainians in Ukraine

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f4/Ukraine_cencus_2001_Ukrainian.svg/620px-Ukraine_cencus_2001_Ukrainian.svg.png

[nisse]

Actually, I have to disagree here. There is a difference between scattered Ukrainians living all over Russia, esp in the largest cities, and large areas like Crimea, which has always had a majority ethnic Russian population. The current Ukrainian borders were drawn up without much afterthought, and it will remain an unsettled situation until there comes a more realistic solution that takes into account dominant ethnic groups in certain areas.

I have to disgree in turn :D

Ukrainians living in Russian are not as scattered as you suggest, there are whole villages where the major laguage spoken is Ukrainian and whole regions made up of such villages.

Crimea peninsula is not typical of Eastern Ukraine, it was tatar land before it was russian land. I don't really include it in Ukraine.

[Cail]

Well, maybe these three (Luhansk/Donetsk/Crimea) should indeed, and that would be logical - having three times more Russians than Ukrainians in case of Luhansk/Donetsk. Crimea too (though it'd have to be an enclave, not that it's a problem). But not the other eastern/southern-Ukrainian regions, where Ukrainians constitute the majority.

Actually the best solution would be a plebiscite, as in all territorial disputes.

[d3cimat3d]

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/powerup927/CAILISGAY.jpg




...That already happened, and the results weren't so great.






http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss51/Mandrivnyk/The%20orange%20revolution/Theorangerevolution15.jpg

http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss51/Mandrivnyk/The%20orange%20revolution/Theorangerevolution19.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g300/flakelviv/maidan01.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/lemarite/Kanone/2007_energetycy_01.jpg

http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss51/Mandrivnyk/The%20orange%20revolution/Theorangerevolution14.jpg




Crimea peninsula is not typical of Eastern Ukraine, it was tatar land before it was russian land. I don't really include it in Ukraine.

Stupid argument. Crimea was controlled by the Goths prior to the Tatars, and prior to the Goths, it was Scythian... How does that change anything?

[Loki]

I have to disgree in turn :D


I love it! :thumb001:



Ukrainians living in Russian are not as scattered as you suggest, there are whole villages where the major laguage spoken is Ukrainian and whole regions made up of such villages.


Such areas could then in turn be incorporated into Ukraine, should they wish, and should it make practical sense (i.e. if they are bordering Ukraine).



Crimea peninsula is not typical of Eastern Ukraine, it was tatar land before it was russian land. I don't really include it in Ukraine.

Yep, as I've said, I am mainly talking about 3 oblasts only: Lukhansk, Donetsk and Crimea. :)

[nisse]

Such areas could then in turn be incorporated into Ukraine, should they wish, and should it make practical sense (i.e. if they are bordering Ukraine).
That is, of course, not where they are. But if ethnically Ukrainian areas fo Russia are not integrated back into Ukraine, why should it work the other way around? Crimea is solated from Russia, and "Russians" the other areas you mentioned (Lukhansk, Donetsk) are typically not ethnic Russians (they are more or less people like me), they just call themselves that because of linguistic affiliations and the desire to separate themselves from the culturally very different Western Ukrianians.

[Cail]

That is, of course, not where they are. But if ethnically Ukrainian areas fo Russia are not integrated back into Ukraine, why should it work the other way around? Crimea is solated from Russia, and the other areas you mentioned (Lukhansk, Donetsk) are not ethnic Russians, they just call themselves that because of linguistic affiliations and the desire to separate themselves from the culturally very different Western Ukrianians.

So would you agree a plebiscite is a proper solution? People should have a right to choose for themselves, don't they?

[nisse]

So would you agree a plebiscite is a proper solution? People should have a right to choose for themselves, don't they?

Sure, I don't really care what they do. But I doubt many outside of Crimea would actually want to join Russia if given the option ;).

[Loki]

That is, of course, not where they are. But if ethnically Ukrainian areas fo Russia are not integrated back into Ukraine, why should it work the other way around?


It is easy enough for a border region to switch sides, but less easy for scattered Ukrainian pockets surrounded by large Russian-majority areas.



Crimea is solated from Russia,


Crimea, being an island, is separated from the rest of Ukraine in very much the same way. And Russia is not too far away.



and "Russians" the other areas you mentioned (Lukhansk, Donetsk) are typically not ethnic Russians (they are more or less people like me), they just call themselves that because of linguistic affiliations and the desire to separate themselves from the culturally very different Western Ukrianians.

I'm not so intricately aware of these Russians living in Eastern Ukraine ... so won't argue about that. But if these people feel more close to Russia than to Western Ukraine, why force them to stay?

[Cail]

But if these people feel more close to Russia than to Western Ukraine, why force them to stay?

Exactly. People should choose themselves who they identify with more, and choose their status accordingly. They should have a right to do so, not some politicians.

[Basil]

Percentage of Russians in Ukraine

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/46/Ukraine_cencus_2001_Russian.svg/621px-Ukraine_cencus_2001_Russian.svg.png

Percentage of Ukrainians in Ukraine

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f4/Ukraine_cencus_2001_Ukrainian.svg/620px-Ukraine_cencus_2001_Ukrainian.svg.png

It's not a percentage of Russians and Ukrainians, but a percentage of mother-tongue speakers of respective languages. For instance, Donetsk oblast:


As of the Ukrainian National Census, 2001, the ethnic groups within the Donetsk Oblast are: Ukrainians — 2,744,100 (56.9%), Russians — 1,844,400 (38.2%), Greeks - 77,500 (1.61%), Belarusians — 44,500 (0.92%), Crimean Tatars — 19,200 (0.4%), Armenians — 15,700 (0.33%), and Jews - 8,800 (0.18%).[3]

As of 2001, the languages spoken within the oblast' are: Russian — 74.9%, Ukrainian — 24.1%, and Armenian — 0.13%.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_Oblast#Demographics

[d3cimat3d]

Shame on Ukraine, and her sister, Poland. One of the two biggest countries in Europe in terms of surface area and population, yet the quality of life is miserable and they can't even get their shit together. How long must we all wait for them straighten up!? In my opinion, someone needs to annex those two nations since they obviously are to corrupt and backwards to solve their own internal problems.

Russia should take Ukraine, and Germany should take Poland.
Problem solved.
:D

[Basil]

Lukhansk, Donetsk and Crimea should be incorporated into the Russian Federation, based on the demographics:

People of Luhansk and Donetsk have already made their choice. Time can't be reversed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_independence_referendum,_1991

[Loki]

People of Luhansk and Donetsk have already made their choice. Time can't be reversed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_independence_referendum,_1991

Crimea seems to be significantly different from the rest, then. What you also need to take into consideration, is that this referendum was held in 1991, at the time of the break-up of the Soviet Union. There were many uncertainties at the time, especially in Russia proper. Today, Ukraine is a poorer country than Russia, and times have changed. Should such a referendum be held today, results might be much different. People usually vote for economic reasons, especially in poorer countries.

[Ragnvald]

How different are Russians and Ukrainians ethnically speaking? I know they somewhat differ racially, Ukrainians being more southern, and linguistically Ukrainian is a separate language, but what about culture and mentality?

[nisse]

I'm not so intricately aware of these Russians living in Eastern Ukraine ... so won't argue about that. But if these people feel more close to Russia than to Western Ukraine, why force them to stay?
They feel closer to Russia than to Western Ukraine because they're not part of Russia. I'm willing to bet that were they part of Russia they would start feeling Ukrainian.

Hating the government and wanting out is part of the Eastern Ukrainian mentality ;).

The Ukrainian government, much like the governments of many Baltic countries, has been very anti-russian recently and has intriduced some really stupid linguistic laws. I'm not trying to imply anything about Baltic states, but in Ukraine this makes no sense at all considering the number of russophones. For example, in Eastern Ukraine you have a tonne of teachers who have always taught in Russian, now they have to teach in Ukrainian - which they don't speak because they were educated in ukrainian universities, in Russian!

This goes for all levels of education, all levels of government - people are now requried to do everything in Ukrainian, even though they were taught to look down on it and use Russian for years prior! The languages are similar enough, but having to use the one you are not used to reduces the level of service and makes the whole experience less pleasant.

The most ridiculous thing - all TV programs in Russian have to be subtitled in Ukrainian! :cool: That's a step away from having "American" subtitles for British English!


Today, Ukraine is a poorer country than Russia, and times have changed. Should such a referendum be held today, results might be much different. People usually vote for economic reasons, especially in poorer countries.
There you go - another reason against - many of those people are driven by purely economic motives - were Russia to experience a major recession they'd be screaming that they are Ukrainian and wantto be part of Ukraine (well, they'd at least try to :ohwell:).

Most are neither, and this unique blend deserves to be recognized with autonomy :thumb001:

[Angeliq]

You talk about the results of these elections, as a fact of the revolution. I think that won't big changes , these two person, somebody intentionally want oppose to each other,for purpose to divide society into two opposing camps and keep all Ukraine in suspense, but in fact there is not so much difference. And i don't think about Yanukovych as politic which configured to Russia, he proved it no one time.I don't believe no one and I think that the majority of Ukrainians think so.But i like Yanukovych more than Tymoshenko. Now the main thing , that there ,would not unrest and division like in 2004.Wich he will be president will show the time .The only thing ,that with such support on the parliamentary elections, his victory would be a small cost, because Ukraine is a parliamentary republic.:)
The situation in Ukraine is really complicated, in Ukraine there is no political force responsive to the interests of the all people. Unfortunatly,dividing in two parts of Ukraine has already occurred, and we can talk only about the design of this . The separation of some lands from the country is of course extreme, and I wouldn't like it.Maybe federation is really exit from this difficult situation,but this required a strong centralized authority and overall national idea, but this two things unfortunately Ukraina doesn't have.I believe that all would be allright.:)

[Angeliq]

but what about culture and mentality?
I think that there is no such large differences. this confirms the great number of Russian-Ukrainian families.:)

[Guapo]

Swedes(Ruotsi) are actually Balkanoids :cool:

http://www.osterholm.info/thracian.html

[RoyBatty]

Crimea peninsula is not typical of Eastern Ukraine, it was tatar land before it was russian land. I don't really include it in Ukraine.

They're not Tatars.

They're Turks who for reasons best known to themselves call themselves "Tatars". Real Tatars are from the Volga region around Kazan. The rest are fakers.

[RoyBatty]

You talk about the results of these elections, as a fact of the revolution. I think that won't big changes , these two person, somebody intentionally want oppose to each other,for purpose to divide society into two opposing camps and keep all Ukraine in suspense, but in fact there is not so much difference. And i don't think about Yanukovych as politic which configured to Russia, he proved it no one time.I don't believe no one and I think that the majority of Ukrainians think so.


Since most major political parties in Ukraine, Western Europe, the USA and many other countries are increasingly controlled by rich elites elections are often meaningless. It's a case of choosing criminal A or criminal B to implement the same bad policies once they are elected.



But i like Yanukovych more than Tymoshenko.


Neither is to be trusted.



Now the main thing , that there ,would not unrest and division like in 2004.Wich he will be president will show the time .The only thing ,that with such support on the parliamentary elections, his victory would be a small cost, because Ukraine is a parliamentary republic.:)


That's right. George Soros and the US State Dept and their mafia of "Colour Revolution" NGO's, advisors etc won't be throwing money away on this election by mobilising their Orange idiots since there is no chance of them achieving any result. Ukrainians have come to realise that electing USA sponsored criminals will not magically make their lives any better.



The situation in Ukraine is really complicated, in Ukraine there is no political force responsive to the interests of the all people.


It seems to be the same in many other countries. Politicians serve themselves, not their countries.

[Osweo]

They're not Tatars.

They're Turks who for reasons best known to themselves call themselves "Tatars". Real Tatars are from the Volga region around Kazan. The rest are fakers.
THat's a little simplistic, Roy...

They were heavily Ottomanised, sure. Their language shows this in a very clear fashion. But there are major elements in their heritage from the steppe, AND from the older peoples of the peninsula.

'Tatar' used to be a very sloppily used term. Russians used it of the Azeris and Balkars, before the Revolution.

[Angeliq]

Neither is to be trusted.
I completely agree. And I don't understand so enthusiastic exclamations about the victory of Yanukovych especially in Russia. As Russian people says "поменяли шило на мыло.":)

[RoyBatty]

THat's a little simplistic, Roy...

They were heavily Ottomanised, sure. Their language shows this in a very clear fashion. But there are major elements in their heritage from the steppe, AND from the older peoples of the peninsula.

'Tatar' used to be a very sloppily used term. Russians used it of the Azeris and Balkars, before the Revolution.

OK they are MONGREL Turks. :laugh:

[RoyBatty]

I completely agree. And I don't understand so enthusiastic exclamations about the victory of Yanukovych especially in Russia. As Russian people says "поменяли шило на мыло.":)

As the saying goes: "When God made the Ukrainian the Jew cried" :D

[Angeliq]

Possibly Scandinavian, but still indicative of some Uralic ancestry.

9-10 centuries Ladoga was inhabited mainly Finnish peoples, which have haplogroup N3a, which is also widespread in Swedish.Maybe from here :)
And it is possible that Ruric hadn't N3 , but one of two branches of Ruricovich -Olgovichi have R1a gaplogrup, the second Monomashichi-N3. I understand, that it has passed already one thousand years , but according to these Fact the chance that Ruric had R1a or N3 is fifty-fifty percent))What do you think about it?:)

[Jarl]

Janukowitsch it's leader of pro-Russian faction. Victory of Janukowitsch means closer relations with Russia. It's rather not good information for Western Europe, becouse another Russian puppet state are now close in to our borders(to Polish border in fact).

Its good and its bad. Juszczenko was pro-nationalist and glorified Bandera and other individuals partly responsible for the Volhynia massacres.

[d3cimat3d]

I'm sorry,but in comparison with you, i'm "true Nordic ideal", :D
”.



Sure you're more European looking than me, congratulations, but , is their some kind of prize that you get for looking more European?:rolleyes2: How come no one told me about it?



though I'm Slavic))))))))You look like as tupical Kavkaz man or gypsy.

If you call me a Gypsy, than you call Stalin a Gypsy, since we both share a similar look and I'm sure he would be happy if you said that about him. Anyways, us "Gypsies" controlled your country with a iron grip, brought Russia out of the fuedal ages and industrialized it to become a super power.
Not only that, us Gypsies repeled the Nazi invasions, saving your families life, had it not been for us Gypsies, you wouldn't even be here. You owe your whole life to us "Gypsies".

[Angeliq]

If you call me a Gypsy, than you call Stalin a Gypsy, since we both share a similar look .
No .. You don't look like as Gugashvilli. Gugashvilli looked like as a typical Georgians , but IMO you look like as a typical gypsy))))) Near our “Green market” there are a lot of the people which look like as you))):D


You owe your whole life to us "Gypsies".
it's so funny))) :D This bastard perpetrated genocide against my nation .The fact that we won, it's not his merit, it's merit of all soviet people.

I think the reason that you're so angry is that a lot of people in the street often asked you to tell about theirs fortunes .The poor creature.. It's probably so heavy)):D

[d3cimat3d]

You first said I look like a Kavkazian:


You look like as tupical Kavkaz man

and Now you change it to Gypsy (to make me mad or something?)


No .. You don't look like as Gugashvilli. Gugashvilli looked like as a typical Georgians , but IMO you look like as a typical gypsy))))) Near our “Green market” there are a lot of the people which look like as you))):D


it's so funny))) :D This bastard perpetrated genocide against my nation .The fact that we won, it's not his merit, it's merit of all soviet people.

I think the reason that you're so angry is that a lot of people in the street often asked you to tell about theirs fortunes .The poor creature.. It's probably so heavy)):D

Anyways it's clear you are trying to make me feel bad or something, because I don't think you will ever in the world find a Gypsy who looks like me, nor any Slav who looks like me.
(red beard and freckles);)

[Angeliq]

You first said I look like a Kavkazian:and Now you change it to Gypsy (to make me mad or something?)

I said that you look like as tupical Kavkaz man or gypsy.I think you're probably a mixture of a Caucasian nationality + Gypsy. I don't know your ethnicity, but for me you look so. Your feature can be considered as a caucasian with some gypsy or vice versa.)))):D


nor any Slav who looks like me.

Ofcourse you don't look like as Slavic people, all slavic people are very beatiful :D

[W. R.]

Its good and its bad. Juszczenko was pro-nationalist and glorified Bandera and other individuals partly responsible for the Volhynia massacres.Was Bandera responsible as well? Why Poles are so allergic to that name?

[Jarl]

Is it true the Slavs get their names because the mighty Germanics made slaves of them or is that just speculation? :cool:

Not at all. The Byzantines, who held against the invading Slavic hordes and captured many Slavs in battle, used that term. Thats how it became a synonym for "slave". Germanics were for centuries enslaved alike by the Romans, particularly the Western Empire. Historical literature is full of descriptions of what Romans did to them once they captured them. The original Germanic term for Slavs had always been the "Wenden" (later restricted mainly to Western Slavs and even more, to Pomeranian Wends).

[Osweo]

The original Germanic term for Slavs had always been the "Wenden" (later restricted mainly to Western Slavs and even more, to Pomeranian Wends).
Wendisch/Windisch was also applied in the south to the Slovenes... ;)

[The Khagan]

Indeed, all northern peoples of Europe had slaves taken from among their respective populations.

The Norse Varangyar often took slaves from Slavic populations and traded them through out the eastern and Mediterranean world according to Ibn Rustah.

[Jarl]

Indeed, all northern peoples of Europe had slaves taken from among their respective populations.

The Norse Varangyar often took slaves from Slavic populations and traded them through out the eastern and Mediterranean world according to Ibn Rustah.

That was about 300-500 years, after the Byzantine term "Sclavus" found its way into medieval Europe's terminology. Polabian Lechites - the Obodriti and the Veleti took copious numbers of slaves from among the Saxons during their raids against their Germanic neighbours. So did the Polish Lechites led by king of Poland, Boleslaw Chrobry, on their raids into Lausitz and Meissen Marks.

[The Khagan]

I wasn't trying to say that the slave raiding wasn't reciprocal?

[Jarl]

I wasn't trying to say that the slave raiding wasn't reciprocal?

Slave trade was reciprocal but the spread of culture/civilisation was not. And that is why it were the Romans who passed the "barbarian slave" image into literature.

[Monolith]

Wendisch/Windisch was also applied in the south to the Slovenes... ;)
There's a cave named Vindija in Northern Croatia. Neanderthals used to live there. ;)