a tale of two anthems - SA, rugby, and the oppression of the Afrikaner nation

[Fear Fiain]

watch the following video, see the reluctance with which they keep up appearances by singing nKosi Sikelei i afrika, and the pure joy in even the children's faces when "die stem" comes on.
I hope to see these children see freedom some day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpU0nLS1nrk

[Fear Fiain]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt8MKat2j-E

it's consistent in every damn video ... the scots can outsing the afrikaners when nkosi sikelei is on, but when die stem comes on, the hearts and voices roar

[Algernon]

watch the following video, see the reluctance with which they keep up appearances by singing nKosi Sikelei i afrika, and the pure joy in even the children's faces when "die stem" comes on.
I hope to see these children see freedom some day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpU0nLS1nrk

Just out of interest sake, have ever actually been to South Africa? Or are you another one of those "experts" who so love to pass judgement based on what you've gathered from the idiot-box and social media? Fair enough, this is a country with problems - social, economic, political, racial you name it, we've go it but lets face it there's not a country on this earth that's not up to its eyeballs in issues of its own. So let me guess, you've seen the videos and you've made up your mind - you know the truth about what really goes on here! Do you really think that's a fair call? Are you really going to sit there on your little soap box and paint an entire segment of our population with the same brush? Try to remember this; not every white person in this country in an Afrikaner and not every Afrikaner is a racist!

[Fear Fiain]

Just out of interest sake, have ever actually been to South Africa? Or are you another one of those "experts" who so love to pass judgement based on what you've gathered from the idiot-box and social media? Fair enough, this is a country with problems - social, economic, political, racial you name it, we've go it but lets face it there's not a country on this earth that's not up to its eyeballs in issues of its own. So let me guess, you've seen the videos and you've made up your mind - you know the truth about what really goes on here! Do you really think that's a fair call? Are you really going to sit there on your little soap box and paint an entire segment of our population with the same brush? Try to remember this; not every white person in this country in an Afrikaner and not every Afrikaner is a racist!

No, but I have friends from there, I live in a major metropolis where we have people from all over the world. I talk. I listen. I stand with the Boer and against the (mainly anglophone) traitors who handed the country over to communists.

[Algernon]

No, but I have friends from there, I live in a major metropolis where we have people from all over the world. I talk. I listen. I stand with the Boer and against the (mainly anglophone) traitors who handed the country over to communists.

Jeez buddy, What planet are you from???

[Äijä]

Jeez buddy, What planet are you from???

Free the Afrikaners! You sound like a bolsevik ANC supporter.

[Fear Fiain]

Jeez buddy, What planet are you from???

ek gaan te fok jy ma en shy poes jou bietjie perdkak

[Theron]

Most don't even know what the Xhosa/Zulu lyrics mean never mind actually knowing them, that's why the anthem is sung in patches of passion.


I stand with the Boer and against the (mainly anglophone) traitors who handed the country over to communists.

I know you mean well but this isn't true. ANC weren't communists when they took power (thankfully) because if they were foreign investment would not have entered the country and it would have been disastrous.

The anglophone part isn't true either. Those entering negotiations with the ANC were mainly Afrikaans speaking (as was most of the government) and one of the main reasons the government had to hand over power was that it ran out of funds (foreign banks would not renew loans). The ANC role in the collapse of Apartheid is overplayed IMO. The government could barely function at the time, the collapse was inevitable.

[Äijä]

If there is no nation possible there for the Europeans, I want those that cant afford but want to leave are given refugee status in Europe.
South Africa as it is has no long term future for the Afrikaner.

[Algernon]

ek gaan te fok jy ma en shy poes jou bietjie perdkak

How eloquent! I think what you meant to say there was " ek gaan jou ma in haar poes naai, jou klein stuk perdekak" but of course, I may be wrong.

[Fear Fiain]

How eloquent! I think what you meant to say there was " ek gaan jou ma in haar poes naai, jou klein stuk perdekak" but of course, I may be wrong.

thanks for helping my grammar! gonna be critical if I'm going to get taken seriously enough to get charitable exemption for the money I raise to keep the good lads armed over there.
you should be amazed at all, one minute you're attacking me because you think I'm totally ignorant of Afrikaner reality or culture, and now you're correcting my grammar as if it is my having learned it as a second language (more like third or fourth but whatever) which makes you feel superior ... you can't have it both ways, at least not in this argument.
You can have it both ways in that you probably take it up the ass even if you are fond of women. But that's not very relevant here, except that it correlates with your communist sympathies.

[Algernon]

thanks for helping my grammar! gonna be critical if I'm going to get taken seriously enough to get charitable exemption for the money I raise to keep the good lads armed over there.
you should be amazed at all, one minute you're attacking me because you think I'm totally ignorant of Afrikaner reality or culture, and now you're correcting my grammar as if it is my having learned it as a second language (more like third or fourth but whatever) which makes you feel superior ... you can't have it both ways, at least not in this argument.
You can have it both ways in that you probably take it up the ass even if you are fond of women. But that's not very relevant here, except that it correlates with your communist sympathies.

Ha Ha Ha! I always find it so amusing when a person's argument falls to pieces how soon they will gravitate to sexual innuendo and the questioning of their counterpart's sexual orientation.

[Theron]

ek gaan te fok jy ma en shy poes jou bietjie perdkak

"Ek stem nie saam nie... Hier is die rede waarom:" would have worked too :lol:



you should be amazed at all, one minute you're attacking me because you think I'm totally ignorant of Afrikaner reality or culture, and now you're correcting my grammar as if it is my having learned it as a second language (more like third or fourth but whatever) which makes you feel superior ... you can't have it both ways, at least not in this argument.


It's impressive that you can speak some Afrikaans, but that doesn't really mean you can comment on events here. I appreciate your concern for the whites here but the reality is not as extreme as you make it out to be, and most whites would disagree with your opinion.

[Fear Fiain]

"Ek stem nie saam nie... Hier is die rede waarom:" would have worked too :lol:



It's impressive that you can speak some Afrikaans, but that doesn't really mean you can comment on events here. I appreciate your concern for the whites here but the reality is not as extreme as you make it out to be, and most whites would disagree with your opinion.

and most whites here think that the "knockout game" has to do with a lack of youth rolemodels and unemployment or something.
I care only for those willing to stand up.

The truth cannot be silenced...

one day we will see another Terre L'Blanche, one who will unite the white race's truest men across the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCDrfTEUWNo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G0SVDJbWKk

[Kazimiera]

ek gaan te fok jy ma en shy poes jou bietjie perdkak

Honestly dude, being able to string a few Afrikaans words together in atrocious grammar really doesn't qualify you to make judgements on the country. If I have seen the mutilation and rape of a language then this takes the cake! :lol:

If you came to South Africa, I am sure that it would be the most disappointing trip of you life because it is NOTHING like you think it is.

There are maybe a few hundred white South Africans who share your opinion, but the majority of white people both English and Afrikaans do not share your views.

South Africa is far, far more complex than what people think. It is not as cut-and-dried as the media and makes it out to be. Virtually all the things I have seen on world media about South Africa is severely biased (from whichever viewpoint the person of the article is taking). It is a country which stirs up extreme feelings of people from other places, such as yourself, who have never lived or been here.

The reality is that it is much less exciting than the media makes it out to be. It is people like you, no matter how good your intentions, that continue to perpetuate these myths about South Africa. Most of us just wish that the rest of the world would leave us alone because the rest of the world doesn't have a clue about what is going on here. Rather stick to changing and delivering opinions on your OWN countries than meddle in the affairs of a place whose history/people/society have no comprehension of.

I can only agree with Theron and Algernon, both have an educated opinion because THEY ARE FROM HERE and live it every day.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

To be honest it was pretty clear by simply watching the videos to me that they were singing in different languages and of course were not so familiar with the first language part of the Anthem therefore trying their best, people will also feel much more passionate when speaking/singing in a language they understand more clearly which is what happened in the second half. Any other interpretation would have been pure bias.

[Theron]

If you came to South Africa, I am sure that it would be the most disappointing trip of you life because it is NOTHING like you think it is.


There are maybe a few hundred white South Africans who share your opinion, but the majority of white people both English and Afrikaans do not share your views.

South Africa is far, far more complex than what people think. It is not as cut-and-dried as the media and makes it out to be. Virtually all the things I have seen on world media about South Africa is severely biased (from whichever viewpoint the person of the article is taking). It is a country which stirs up extreme feelings of people from other places, such as yourself, who have never lived or been here.

The reality is that it is much less exciting than the media makes it out to be. It is people like you, no matter how good your intentions, that continue to perpetuate these myths about South Africa. Most of us just wish that the rest of the world would leave us alone because the rest of the world doesn't have a clue about what is going on here. Rather stick to changing and delivering opinions on your OWN countries than meddle in the affairs of a place whose history/people/society have no comprehension of.

I can only agree with Theron and Algernon, both have an educated opinion because THEY ARE FROM HERE and live it every day.

Great post Kaz. You've hit the nail on the head. What's more, I find someone posting videos of Terre'Blanche and the assumption that all white South Africans agree with him slightly offensive if anything. SA is no paradise and the Afrikaner ethnic group and its culture certainly need to be preserved, but believing so does not automatically put one in the same camp as Terre'Blanche.

SA faces many problems but these are problems that can be overcome. The majority of whites are heading nowhere and most want to see a strong, thriving democracy here.

[Kazimiera]

Free the Afrikaners! You sound like a bolsevik ANC supporter.

Ukko, I find it rather ironic that you are using the term bolsheviks.

If you compare Soviet style Communism and Afrikaner Nationalism, the parallels are glaringly obvious.

The state controlled ALL media and made life extremely difficult for the few independant publications that somehow managed to survive. Independant's offices were raided on a regular basis, people's homes were bugged and telephone lines were monitored. The state kept dossiers on anyone who might have offered an opposing view to State's nationalist dogma. Media censorship reigned. Cinemas were banned from showing movies on Sundays. Even the book "Black Beauty" (about the horse) was banned because of its title.

Children were indoctrinated into the system from an early age. At least once a week school children in government schools had to take part in cadet drills where little boys were marched up and down (come rain, wind or shine) in silly brown uniforms by some army commandant in preparation for mandatory army service. In Std 5 (grade 7) and Std 8 (grade 10) boys and girls were sent to Veld School - a week of intensive indoctrination and nationalist propaganda, to prepare them for a war which existed only in the minds of the instructors.

Do you call that freedom? Sounds a little like Soviet-style communism or Nazi-style facism, wouldn't you say?

BTW: this post is from EXPERIENCE and not hearsay from the other end of the world.

[Äijä]

Ukko, I find it rather ironic that you are using the term bolsheviks.

If you compare Soviet style Communism and Afrikaner Nationalism, the parallels are glaringly obvious.

The state controlled ALL media and made life extremely difficult for the few independant publications that somehow managed to survive. Independant's offices were raided on a regular basis, people's homes were bugged and telephone lines were monitored. The state kept dossiers on anyone who might have offered an opposing view to State's nationalist dogma. Media censorship reigned. Cinemas were banned from showing movies on Sundays. Even the book "Black Beauty" (about the horse) was banned because of its title.

Children were indoctrinated into the system from an early age. At least once a week school children in government schools had to take part in cadet drills where little boys were marched up and down (come rain, wind or shine) in silly brown uniforms by some army commandant in preparation for mandatory army service. In Std 5 (grade 7) and Std 8 (grade 10) boys and girls were sent to Veld School - a week of intensive indoctrination and nationalist propaganda, to prepare them for a war which existed only in the minds of the instructors.

Do you call that freedom? Sounds a little like Soviet-style communism or Nazi-style facism, wouldn't you say?

That is like the only way to survive when attacked by the Soviet Union and Western liberals.
The white massacres will come, the ones predicting them are right.

[Kazimiera]

Great post Kaz. You've hit the nail on the head. What's more, I find someone posting videos of Terre'Blanche and the assumption that all white South Africans agree with him slightly offensive if anything. SA is no paradise and the Afrikaner ethnic group and its culture certainly need to be preserved, but believing so does not automatically put one in the same camp as Terre'Blanche.

SA faces many problems but these are problems that can be overcome. The majority of whites are heading nowhere and most want to see a strong, thriving democracy here.

Absolutely agree. The videos posted above are from 1993, and hardly relevant to South Africa today. It would be like digging up Hitler's speeches and trying to apply them to modern-day Germany. It just DOESN'T work.

[Kazimiera]

That is like the only way to survive when attacked by the Soviet Union and Western liberals.
The white massacres will come, the ones predicting them are right.

:yawnee20:

[Theron]

Absolutely agree. The videos posted above are from 1993, and hardly relevant to South Africa today.

At the fall of Apartheid there certainly was talk of a boerstaat, but even then, only a small number of white SAs supported such ideas. This wasn't a division on linguistic lines either, the overwhelming majority of Afrikaners recognised that such an idea was not feasible.


That is like the only way to survive when attacked by the Soviet Union and Western liberals.
The white massacres will come, the ones predicting them are right.

While it's true that the Soviet Union supplied groups like the ANC and PAC with funds and equipment (Mandela did receive the Order of Lenin medal), I wouldn't say supporting modern day SA means one is a "bolshevik". As I said, the ANC moderated their views after taking power.

Hopefully massacres or any violence on a large scale will never happen. My only fear is if populists like Malema take power - and in that case who knows what would happen. His party, the EFF, performed fairly poorly during the recent elections so I wouldn't hold my breath on such a thing happening.

[Äijä]

:yawnee20:

Remember this conversation when it happens.

[Algernon]

To be honest it was pretty clear by simply watching the videos to me that they were singing in different languages and of course were not so familiar with the first language part of the Anthem therefore trying their best, people will also feel much more passionate when speaking/singing in a language they understand more clearly which is what happened in the second half. Any other interpretation would have been pure bias.

I have to agree with you! What is also important here is the peculiar nature of South Africa's national anthem - essentially it is two songs rolled into one and sung in five different languages (although we have eleven official languages in SA) but besides the language aspect, both songs have deeply rooted histories which sometimes stir the emotions on both sides. The national anthem in its current form is in many respects a compromise between the two major parties in the pre-democracy negotiations. As much as there are many whites who don't sing the first part and many blacks who don't sing the last it should not be read as tantamount to a nation in racial turmoil. For what it's worth, it takes generations to overcome these differences and personally I think South Africa has done fairly well in only twenty years - but yes there's a lot more work to be done.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

I have to agree with you! What is also important here is the peculiar nature of South Africa's national anthem - essentially it is two songs rolled into one and sung in five different languages (although we have eleven official languages in SA) but besides the language aspect, both songs have deeply rooted histories which sometimes stir the emotions on both sides. The national anthem in its current form is in many respects a compromise between the two major parties in the pre-democracy negotiations. As much as there are many whites who don't sing the first part and many blacks who don't sing the last it should not be read as tantamount to a nation in racial turmoil. For what it's worth, it takes generations to overcome these differences and personally I think South Africa has done fairly well in only twenty years - but yes there's a lot more work to be done.

I agree with you fully. To be honest in 20 years it has been a phenomenal difference, to think that in the US it took 100+ years after Slavery to elect a black president. However it is easy for people outside of South Africa to fear for the Afrikaners when we think of the numbers "against" them but I understand from what Kaz has presented it is not so much an "against" issue as wed imagine.

[Theron]

I agree with you fully. To be honest in 20 years it has been a phenomenal difference, to think that in the US it took 100+ years after Slavery to elect a black president.

Not comparable but I take your point. African Americans constitute an even higher percentage than whites do here (12% vs 9%). Black Africans are 80% of the population here, higher than whites in the U.S.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

Not comparable but I take your point. African Americans constitute an even higher percentage than whites do here (12% vs 9%). Black Africans are 80% of the population here, higher than whites in the U.S.

Comparable only to the effect of the Civil Rights era which was basically the same, as the anti apartheid period. In no way did I intend that there was Slavery in South Africa.

[Fear Fiain]

Honestly dude, being able to string a few Afrikaans words together in atrocious grammar really doesn't qualify you to make judgements on the country. If I have seen the mutilation and rape of a language then this takes the cake! :lol:

If you came to South Africa, I am sure that it would be the most disappointing trip of you life because it is NOTHING like you think it is.

There are maybe a few hundred white South Africans who share your opinion, but the majority of white people both English and Afrikaans do not share your views.

South Africa is far, far more complex than what people think. It is not as cut-and-dried as the media and makes it out to be. Virtually all the things I have seen on world media about South Africa is severely biased (from whichever viewpoint the person of the article is taking). It is a country which stirs up extreme feelings of people from other places, such as yourself, who have never lived or been here.

The reality is that it is much less exciting than the media makes it out to be. It is people like you, no matter how good your intentions, that continue to perpetuate these myths about South Africa. Most of us just wish that the rest of the world would leave us alone because the rest of the world doesn't have a clue about what is going on here. Rather stick to changing and delivering opinions on your OWN countries than meddle in the affairs of a place whose history/people/society have no comprehension of.

I can only agree with Theron and Algernon, both have an educated opinion because THEY ARE FROM HERE and live it every day.

This is a world wide struggle and international solidarity matters.
if there are only 100 whites who know they are being exterminated, and wish to live, they have more moral right to govern than 10,000 sheep.