The first ever racist Kurdish politician

[Azamat]

When an unspoken rule of being a Kurdish politician is upholding strict political correctness and catering to the interests of foreigners, this woman is a blessing.

http://i.imgur.com/V3QGq6E.jpg

حهقه دیوارێك لهنێوان كورد و عهرهب دروست بكهین كه كهس نهتوانێ پیاسهربكهوێت،،تهلبهندی بكهین،، عهرهب به پاسپۆرت بێن بۆ كوردستان
حهقه بهس بۆ هێنانهوهی ئهنفالهكان روو له عێراق بكهین، كاتی ئهوهیه بۆ ههتا ههتایه بهنهفرهتیان بكهین.

ئێڤار ئیبراهیم ئه ندامى به رله مان

"Ivan Ibrahim Kurdish Gorran MP: "The time has come to build a wall on the South("Iraqi") Kurdish border, so high that Iraqis cannot climb, stuffed with barbed wires - it is time to end this forced connection between Kurds and Arabs for good, they shall not pass into our borders, we shall not pass theirs except to bring back our Anfal victims. Time to end our relations with iraq once and for all."

[SKYNET]

http://newheroes.nordicbet.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Kurdistan_project_en_2.png

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Is there a possibility Kurdistan state to be created in Northern Iraq?

[Azamat]

Is there a possibility Kurdistan state to be created in Northern Iraq?We're at a tipping point right now, thanks to the ISIS invasion the Kurdish army obtained a motive to occupy the so-called 'disputed areas'(claimed by Kurdistan but previously under Iraqi administration), operations which are now complete. Oil exports have also commenced (thus giving us an independent source of income), and with Iraq receiving F-16s from the US, the time to separate in a smooth way is now or never.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

We're at a tipping point right now, thanks to the ISIS invasion the Kurdish army obtained a motive to occupy the so-called 'disputed areas'(claimed by Kurdistan but previously under Iraqi administration), operations which are now complete. Oil exports have also commenced (thus giving us an independent source of income), and with Iraq receiving F-16s from the US, the time to separate in a smooth way is now or never.

Hope good for you guys also create your own state since you really deserve to have one.

[Alphawolf]

The Arabs will get every single area in Iraq back to the Arab territory. Shedded blood never drie and stolen earth will be of no avail. The Kurds will hear of this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B_Td62h4Eg

[wvwvw]

The Arabs will get every single area in Iraq back to the Arab territory. Shedded blood never drie and stolen earth will be of no avail. The Kurds will hear of this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B_Td62h4Eg

The only stolen earth is Northern Kurdistan, stolen by Turkey

[Alphawolf]

The only stolen earth is Northern Kurdistan, stolen by Turkey

Or Macedonia and Epirus, stolen by Greeks. Keep it down!

[Azamat]

The only stolen earth is Northern Kurdistan, stolen by TurkeyMany Greeks seem to dislike Chrysi Avgi, so to be safe I won't assume you support them, but due to their statements on re-annexing west Anatolia I am hoping for them to come to power in your country. Along with Armenia we can launch an invasion from three sides and partition Turkey between us.

[Hayalet]

Many Greeks seem to dislike Chrysi Avgi, so to be safe I won't assume you support them, but due to their statements on re-annexing west Anatolia I am hoping for them to come to power in your country. Along with Armenia we can launch an invasion from three sides and partition Turkey between us.
:lol:

[Danishmend]

Many Greeks seem to dislike Chrysi Avgi, so to be safe I won't assume you support them, but due to their statements on re-annexing west Anatolia I am hoping for them to come to power in your country. Along with Armenia we can launch an invasion from three sides and partition Turkey between us.

:patpat:

[HERK]

I don't think Turkey will allow any Kurd state within their territory but myself i think that Kurds deserve a country, they are so many in numbers to not have one.

[wvwvw]

Or Macedonia and Epirus, stolen by Greeks. Keep it down!

You cannot steal something that it is yours. Greeks and Kurds have 4000 years of recorded history in their respective regions you don't. Epirus means Continental in Greek and there is still a big Greek minority living there.

[wvwvw]

Who stole what from whom? :D

Northern Epirus (Greek: Βόρειος Ήπειρος, Vorios Ipiros, Albanian: Epiri i Veriut) is a term used to refer to those parts of the historical region of Epirus, in the western Balkans, that are part of the modern Albania. The term is used mostly by Greeks and is associated with the existence of a substantial ethnic Greek population in the region. It also has connotations with political claims on the territory on the grounds that it was held by Greece and in 1914 was declared an independent state[2] by the local Greeks against annexation to the newly founded Albanian principality.

The term "Northern Epirus" started to be used by Greeks in 1913, upon the creation of the Albanian state following the Balkan Wars, and the incorporation into the latter of territory that was regarded by many Greeks as geographically, historically, culturally, and ethnologically connected to the Greek region of Epirus since antiquity.[4] In the spring of 1914, the Autonomous Republic of Northern Epirus was proclaimed by ethnic Greeks in the territory and recognized by the Albanian government, though it proved short-lived as Albania collapsed with the onset of World War I. Greece held the area between 1914 and 1916 and unsuccessfully tried to annex it in March 1916.[4] In 1917 Greek forces were driven from the area by Italy, who took over most of Albania.[5] The Paris Peace Conference of 1919 awarded the area to Greece, however the area reverted to Albanian control in November 1921, following Greece's defeat in the Greco-Turkish War.[6] During the interwar period, tensions remained high due to the educational issues surrounding the Greek minority in Albania.[4] Following Italy's invasion of Greece from the territory of Albania in 1940 and the successful Greek counterattack, the Greek army briefly held Northern Epirus for a six-month period until the German invasion of Greece in 1941.

Tensions remained high during the Cold War, as the Greek minority was subjected to repressive measures (along with the rest of the country's population). Although a Greek minority was recognized by the Hoxha regime, this recognition only applied to an "official minority zone" consisting of 99 villages, leaving out important areas of Greek settlement, such as Himara. People outside the official minority zone received no education in the Greek language, which was prohibited in public. The Hoxha regime also diluted the ethnic demographics of the region by relocating Greeks living there and settling in their stead Albanians from other parts of the country.[4] Relations began to improve in the 1980s with Greece's abandonment of any territorial claims over Northern Epirus and the lifting of the official state of war between the two countries.[4] In the post Cold War era relations have continued to improve though tensions remain over the availability of education in the Greek language outside the official minority zone, property rights, and occasional violent incidents targeting members of the Greek minority.

[Kiyant]

About what can a Kurd from Northern Iraq be racist?
Atleast racists from other ethnicies (German/French and others) can be proud of their rich history of science/conquest and other things.
Kurds didnt really do anything at all in history and most of the territories you have a majority is originally Armenian land which you got because you guys were muslim

[Azamat]

:lol:

:patpat:This comes across as a pathetically transparent attempt to hide your shaken confidence in Turkey's territorial integrity. Your army already had major problems battling 15000 or so PKK fighters, typically deploying tens of thousands of troops against only several thousand guerrillas in an average anti-PKK operation. How do you intend to resist an invasion on three fronts by much larger, professional armies?

In 15-20 years or so, all three countries considered can have developed ample war-sustaining industry and be ready for it.

[wvwvw]

Many Greeks seem to dislike Chrysi Avgi, so to be safe I won't assume you support them, but due to their statements on re-annexing west Anatolia I am hoping for them to come to power in your country. Along with Armenia we can launch an invasion from three sides and partition Turkey between us.

That cannot happen as there are no traces of Greeks left in Turkey. Even Istanbul and other cities where Greeks lived, are now inhabited by Turks and Kurds. Turkey is very much a Kurdified country. Almost every Turk has some Kurdish ancestor. The future clearly belongs to the Kurds

[random]

Many Greeks seem to dislike Chrysi Avgi, so to be safe I won't assume you support them, but due to their statements on re-annexing west Anatolia I am hoping for them to come to power in your country. Along with Armenia we can launch an invasion from three sides and partition Turkey between us.

I didn't know that the weed in the Netherlands was this good.

It happened before when turkey was way weaker, and it didn't end well for non-Turks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_War_of_Independence

Btw I don't think that she's a racist, If I was in her place I would hate Iraqi arabs too.

[Alphawolf]

You cannot steal something that it is yours. Greeks and Kurds have 4000 years of recorded history in their respective regions you don't. Epirus means Continental in Greek and there is still a big Greek minority living there.

To be honest my Aphrodite, it's time for Epirus, Macedonia and Thrace to separate from Greece. They were never part of Greece. It's recent stolen land.

[wvwvw]

About what can a Kurd from Northern Iraq be racist?
Atleast racists from other ethnicies (German/French and others) can be proud of their rich history of science/conquest and other things.
Kurds didnt really do anything at all in history and most of the territories you have a majority is originally Armenian land which you got because you guys were muslim

They can be proud of their resistance to Turkification.

[Azamat]

Kurds didnt really do anything at all in history and most of the territories you have a majority is originally Armenian land which you got because you guys were muslimThe whole "Kurds came to E.Anatolia following Ottoman-Safavid wars" shabang is bullshit and has been refuted countless times over(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Kurdish_dynasties_and_countries). If by 'original Armenian land' you mean the area around Van, Ararat and Kars - that doesn't constitute "most of the territories in which we have a majority", in fact it is but a minority of where we form a majority today. The Armenians themselves consistently recorded the areas south of that (covering present Hakkari and surrounding provinces) as "Korduene", i.e. ancestrally Kurdish and not Armenian(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corduene#Corduene.2C_Carduchi.2C_and_the_Kurds).

About what can a Kurd from Northern Iraq be racist?
Atleast racists from other ethnicies (German/French and others) can be proud of their rich history of science/conquest and other things.That's your own, subjective value judgment. Since you appear to be somewhat offended by this thread, evidently we have the ability to be racist.

[gültekin]

The only stolen earth is Northern Kurdistan, stolen by Turkey
Northern Kurdistan? hahaha, in that case the Turks have not fought with the Byzantines, but instead with Kurds? on the Battle of Manzikert ? :heh: was Romanos IV Diogenes a kurd? hahaha

[wvwvw]

To be honest my Aphrodite, it's time for Epirus, Macedonia and Thrace to separate from Greece. They were never part of Greece. It's recent stolen land.

In what parallel universe they weren't?

It seems for Turks, the whole Balkans is recent stolen land:

Increasingly open neo-Ottoman imperialism from Erdogan, as Turkey rapidly re-Islamizes. “Turkish PM says territories of Balkan countries belong to Turkey (ROUNDUP),”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/12/turkish-pm-erdogan-territories-of-balkan-countries-belong-to-turkey

Erdogan: Turkish soldiers will help Albanians liberate their lands ...
The Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan menaced to disband the state of fYROM and the Western Balkans, if measures are not taken to assure the rights of Albanians.
http://balkanstory.wordpress.com/2012/05/07/erdogan-turkish-soldiers-will-help-albanians-liberate-their-lands/

[Azamat]

They can be proud of their resistance to Turkification.Not to mention being a relatively pure, homogenous group in terms of ancestry, as opposed to many other nations in the region, such as Turks.

[wvwvw]

Northern Kurdistan? hahaha, in that case the Turks have not fought with the Byzantines, but instead with Kurds? on the Battle of Manzikert ? :heh: was Romanos IV Diogenes a kurd? hahaha

How does that negate the fact that Kurds are indigenous to the region? They have managed to retain their language, culture and race, despite all odds. You occupy their territory. According to UN, the right to self-determination is a basic human right of every nation.

[gültekin]

The only stolen earth is Northern Kurdistan, stolen by Turkey

Northern Kurdistan? hahaha, in that case the Turks have not fought with the Byzantines, but instead with Kurds? on the Battle of Manzikert ? :heh: was Romanos IV Diogenes a kurd? hahaha

Romanos IV Diogenes :rotfl
http://galeri2.uludagsozluk.com/376/abdullah-%C3%B6calan-%C4%B1n-son-hali_400895.jpg

honey, battle of Manzikert was fought between the Byzantine Empire and Turks. and Turks has won since 1071. If we received from one this area, they was the Byzantines, not the Kurds.

[Danishmend]

Almost every Turk has some Kurdish ancestor
You're making things up again, Raine. But you know what, every Greek has some North African ancestry, go check your compatriots' ftdna Myorigins results. They score 2-3% North African on average, which unquestionably indicates your African urheimat. :p






In 15-20 years or so, all three countries considered can have developed ample war-sustaining and industry and be ready for it.

:patpat:

[wvwvw]

You're making things up again, Raine. But you know what, every Greek has some North African ancestry, go check your compatriots' ftdna Myorigins results. They score 2-3% North African on average, which unquestionably indicates your African urheimat. :p






:patpat:

I don't see any 'North African' here: :rolleyes:
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/overview-of-regions-and-closest-populations/reference-populations/

[gültekin]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/smilies/Pat-Pat.gif

Anatolians have 10.000 years old history

[Danishmend]

I don't see any 'North African' here: :rolleyes:
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/overview-of-regions-and-closest-populations/reference-populations/

Most likely North African component is lumped to "Med" category by NatGeo, I was talking about FtDNA MyOrigins anyway.

[Proto-Shaman]

The only stolen earth is Northern Kurdistan, stolen by Turkey

It wasn't stolen, it was conquered by the Ottomans 500 years ago when even no Kurdistan in EASTERN ANATOLIA existed. Eastern Anatolia was Turkmen and Armenian area at that time. Later during Safawid and Ottoman wars, Kurds settled to Eastern Anatolia to get protection against Iranian and Azeri Shias, because Kurds are Sunnis. Learn history!


They can be proud of their resistance to Turkification.
And how they assimilated Turkmen tribes?

[Hayalet]

This comes across as a pathetically transparent attempt to hide your shaken confidence in Turkey's territorial integrity. Your army already had major problems battling 15000 or so PKK fighters, typically deploying tens of thousands of troops against only several thousand guerrillas in an average anti-PKK operation. How do you intend to resist an invasion on three fronts by much larger, professional armies?

In 15-20 years or so, all three countries considered can have developed ample war-sustaining industry and be ready for it.
Armenia, Greece and Kurds partitioning Turkey is roughly analogous to Myanmar, Taiwan and Tibetans partitioning the PRC.

[Proto-Shaman]

This comes across as a pathetically transparent attempt to hide your shaken confidence in Turkey's territorial integrity. Your army already had major problems battling 15000 or so PKK fighters, typically deploying tens of thousands of troops against only several thousand guerrillas in an average anti-PKK operation. How do you intend to resist an invasion on three fronts by much larger, professional armies?

In 15-20 years or so, all three countries considered can have developed ample war-sustaining industry and be ready for it.
If we would have somebody like Osman Pamukoglu again, the PKK wouldn't even exist anymore. But thanks to AKP Kurds now even have own police in "Northern Kurdistan". Anyhow I do not say you didn't suffered from Turkish government during the last decades.

[MarkyMark]

We should let the Kurds keep their territory in the mountains but these maps are becoming ridiculous.

[Azamat]

Armenia, Greece and Kurds partitioning Turkey is roughly analogous to Myanmar, Taiwan and Tibetans partitioning the PRC.When your army failed to defeat an insurgency numbering around 3% of its own size, I'm going to say it isn't.

[Azamat]

It wasn't stolen, it was conquered by the Ottomans 500 years ago when even no Kurdistan in EASTERN ANATOLIA existed. Eastern Anatolia was Turkmen and Armenian area at that time. Later during Safawid and Ottoman wars, Kurds settled to Eastern Anatolia to get protection against Iranian and Azeri Shias, because Kurds are Sunnis. Learn history!I knew some Turk was bound to pull this card sooner or later. Already refuted on the previous page.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?129834-The-first-ever-racist-Kurdish-politician&p=2729497&viewfull=1#post2729497



And how they assimilated Turkmen tribes?I'm aware that some historical accounts would have us believe so, but can you cite any of the abundant genetic tests performed on Kurds in which significant admixture from Turkmen is indicated?(you would have to look out for markers such as Mongoloid admix. for autosomal DNA, haplogroups etc).

I have seen none.

[Hayalet]

When your army failed to defeat an insurgency numbering around 3% of its own size, I'm going to say it isn't.
Conventional warfare and counter-insurgency are like apples and oranges.

Greece and especially Armenia are simply not in the same league as Turkey in terms of military prowess and cannot wage offensive wars against her.

[Azamat]

Conventional warfare and counter-insurgency are like apples and oranges.The PKK's insurgency, as well as the methods that Turkey used to counter it, were of a nature very different to situations like North Ireland or Iraq, and often blurred into something better described as semi-conventional warfare.

http://i.imgur.com/DmlR0R5.jpg (http://imgur.com/DmlR0R5)

http://books.google.nl/books/about/The_Settlement_Issue_in_Turkey_and_the_K.html?id=M E5oLvCd088C&redir_esc=y

And counter-insurgency or not, I will infer that Turkish military competence leaves much to be desired when the enemy they had such difficulty dealing with numbered around 3% the Turkish army's size, not to mention deprived of all the technological means at Turkey's disposal.

I'll concede though, that Greece and Armenia are at present indeed unable to wage an offensive war against Turkey, but my original claim granted for ample time in which Greece and Armenia could develop their economies and military capability.

[Demhat]

I red someone ask if Kurds have any history?


The Zand Dynasty which brought an end to Turkman rule in Iran was Kurdish. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zand_dynasty

The Ayyubid Dynasty which brought an end to crusader control of the holy lands and compromised lands from Egypt, Yemen, the Levant all the way into Anatolia and Mesopotamia was Kurdish with an Kurdish Elite, with Saladin as the leader. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayyubid_dynasty


Simko Shikak brought the Iranian-Qajar army to it's feets by defeating them on several battlefields with a force not even a sixth of the size of the Iranian military until he was tricked and poisened to death. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simko_Shikak

The Safavid Dynasty was started with the Kurdish Safaviyya order which was the Kurdish Elite of the Safavid Dynasty. Shah Ismail leader of Safavids belonged to this Elite order and was as well of Kurdish origin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid_dynasty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safaviyya

The Medes and their successor the Parthians who controlled allmost all of West Asia and South_Central Asia are the ancestors of the Kurds.

In Syria and Iraq Kurdish forces are the only giving the radical ISIS a good beating and pushing them back while, Arabs Turkomans and Assyrians are fleeing into Kurdistan.


I know that now some Turks will say that the Safavids were Turkic that Saladin was Turkic, but historic records prove my words.

[Rojava]

And how they assimilated Turkmen tribes?

Oh you genius, how about you explain how we assimilated Turkemen tribes? They were absorbed, but it was never some sort of forced assimilation commited by Kurds.

And as for Kurdish presence throughout Kurdistan (we've gone over this a billion times, but certainly you can't get that through your thick skull):

Kurdish tribes have lived in Anatolia since at least 1,000 B.C., twenty centuries before the first Turks arrived there. Ancient historians described them as a people not to be trifled with. Xenophon, the fourth-century B.C. Greek warrior and chronicler, wrote that they “lived in the mountains and were very warlike.”

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/kurdish-heritage-reclaimed-105328/?page=2

Kurdish people can claim one of the longest ethnic histories in the middle east. Their lineage dates back to as early as 2400 BC, where they occupied the same lands as they do today. However many foreign invasions and immigrants shaped the face of the Kurdish people over time.

https://www.mtholyoke.edu/~jlshupe/history.html

For nearly 3,000 years the Kurds have lived along the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, the cradle of civilization. This places their beginnings at the very source of the nations and in the immediate vicinity of history's most important events.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1113459/posts

Being the native inhabitants of their land. there are no "beginnings" for Kurdish history and people. Kurds and their history are the end products of thousands of years of continuous internal evolution and assimilation of new peoples and ideas introduced sporadically into their land. Genetically, Kurds are the descendants of all those who ever came to settle in Kurdistan, and not any one of them. A people such as the Guti, Kurti. Mede, Mard, Carduchi, Gordyene, Adianbene, Zila and Khaldi signify not the ancestor of the Kurds but only an ancestor.

http://www.kurdistanica.com/?q=node/2

[Pharaonikos]

I would support an independent Kurdistan, but there is no need for racism coming from facist politicans. Love thy neighbor.

[random]

I red someone ask if Kurds have any history?



In Syria and Iraq Kurdish forces are the only giving the radical ISIS a good beating and pushing them back while, Arabs Turkomans and Assyrians are fleeing into Kurdistan.


I know that now some Turks will say that the Safavids were Turkic that Saladin was Turkic, but historic records prove my words.

The Zand Dynasty was formed by Lurs not Kurds. They didn't bring end to turkman rule in Iran, The Qajar ( Turkman) overthrew them.

[Demhat]

I would support an independent Kurdistan, but there is no need for racism coming from facist politicans. Love thy neighbor.

Don't feel offended if some Kurds curse or dislike Arabs. Cause the thing is when they do so, most of the time they have Iraqis, Syrians in mind which have been opressing since the creation of Iraq and Syria by France and britain.

From my observation generally Egyptians are viewed in good light. In fact it was also the Egyptian government who published the book which clarified a few things about Kurdish history which as usually were given credit to our neighbors for.

For example Egypt published a book about the Kurdish role in Egypt by using their own historic sources which provide and support that Muhammed Ali Dynasty which ruled Egypt and Sudan and who fought the Napoleon army, during Ottoman period was in reality Kurdish.


Title - Kurds in Egypt throughout the history.

Two days ago, a book was published in Egypt about Kurdish people throughout the history. It states that Muhammad Ali Dynasty of Egypt and Sudan is a Kurd not "turk". He is originally from Dyarbakir and not albanian.

Basically, Muhammad Ali Dynasty of Egypt and Sudan is the founder of modern Egypt and its ruler between 1805 to 1848.

"At the age of thirty was Muhammad Ali in the armies mobilized by the Porte in the Ottoman Empire to attack the French army led by Napoleon Bonaparte occupied Egypt between the year 1798 - 1801, before moving Muhammad Ali to Egypt entirely a facilitator Prime battalion "as saying that" with the army that came to evacuate the French from Egypt, and after the departure of the French ascended Muhammad Ali as "Bkbai" that he was appointed ruler of Egypt in 1805 and then established the military school in Egypt, and the numbers a strong army, as established Dar military industry, having relied on the commanders and soldiers of the Kurds in installing his due sincerity Kurd who was one of them because the roots of the "Diyarbakir" because of the military skills enjoyed by the Kurds during the wars they have fought against the French and the English."



The cover of the book.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-U4lF6OnFXww/UMPu-EU_-oI/AAAAAAAAQy0/N2qmpdyl4_w/s1600/1023_1.jpg

Slowly but steady the impact Kurds played on the Middle East and especially during the Ottoman Empire comes to light.

[Demhat]

The Zand Dynasty was formed by Lurs not Kurds. They didn't bring end to turkman rule in Iran, The Qajar ( Turkman) overthrew them.

Your wrong my friend. You should first read the source.

Just a hundred year ago all Lurs were considered Kurds but some started to split away from Kurds. Still their origin is Kurdish.

Michael M. Gunter states that Lurs people are closely related to the Kurds but that they "apparently began to be distinguished from the Kurds 1,000 years ago."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lurs

After some tensions/brotherwar) The Lors divided into two major branches the Big Lors, who are Bakthiaris and South Lorestanis and the small Lors who are Feyli and Lakis. And those have maintained their Kurdish identity.

The Laks are an Iranian group in southwestern Iran. They speak Laki (or Leki), a northwestern Iranian language, which is usually grouped with southern Kurdish dialects.[1][2][3][4] [5] [6][7][8]

Those people live in Ilam and Kermanshah.

The Zand dynasty however, even if we consider the big Lors not Kurds anymore (which I don't do historically they stem from from us), were likely Laki so belonged to the small Lor group. Also even if they were Big Lors (what they weren't) they were still considered Kurds because the Lors were all Kurds back than. This is also what the source states.
So just because some Lors nowadays are not viewed or do not view themselves as Kurds doesn't change the history where their ancestory still had the Kurdish identity and ruled as such. Claiming otherwise would make as much sense as claiming the Trojans were Turks not Greeks because nowaday descends of Trojans are turkified.


The dynasty was founded by Karim Khan, chief of the Zand tribe, which is a tribe of Laks,[1][2][3][4][5][6][7] or Lurs (according to David Yerushalmi)[8] a branch of Kurds.[4][5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zand_dynasty

So they belonged to the Lak tribe of Lors which are considered even today as branch of the Kurds and consider themselves, what also the Big Lors from Lorestan do. Only the Bakthiari Lors do not consider themselves as Kurds anymore.

[random]

They're similar to kurds like most other Iranic people, but their language is more related to Persian. They weren't considered " kurds " they were a separate Iranic group.


Their language belongs to the southwestern Iranic branch, not related to Kurdish at all.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Iranian_Family_Tree_v2.0.png/640px-Iranian_Family_Tree_v2.0.png

[Manifest Destiny]

I would support an independent Kurdistan, but there is no need for racism coming from facist politicans. Love thy neighbor.

Is it really racism to try to keep out people from a nation who ethnically cleansed you and are now being overrun by terrorists? That seems like common sense to me. Iraqi rule over the Kurdish people hasn't gone so well for the Kurds.

[Demhat]

They're similar to kurds like most other Iranic people, but their language is more related to Persian. They weren't considered " kurds " they were a separate Iranic group.


Their language belongs to the southwestern Iranic branch, not related to Kurdish at all.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Iranian_Family_Tree_v2.0.png/640px-Iranian_Family_Tree_v2.0.png


Even this tree you provided as source lists Laki as Kurdish branch. And the Zand Dynasty was a Laki branch of Lors.

A fourth pretender was Karim Khan, son of Aymak of the Zand, a section of Lak tribe, Sir Percy Molesworth Sykes, A History of Persi, Macmillan and co.,

One of the contenders for power was Karim Khan Zand, a member of the Lak tribe near Shiraz, William Marsden, Stephen Album, Marsden's Numismata orientalia illustrata, Attic Books,

Karim Khan, the founder of the Zand dynasty of Persia that succeeded the Afsharids, was himself born to a family of these Lak deportees (of the Zand tribe), Mehrdad R. Izady, The Kurds: A Concise Handbook, Taylor & Francis, 1992

Kurdish leader, Karim Khan Zand,..., Wadie Jwaideh, The Kurdish National Movement: Its Origins and Development, Syracuse University Press, 2006,

Lokman I. Meho, Kelly L. Maglaughlin, Kurdish Culture and Society: An Annotated Bibliography, Greenwood Publishing Group, 2001

.the bulk of the evidence points to their being one of the northern Lur or Lak tribes, who may originally have been immigrants of Kurdish origin., Peter Avery, William Bayne Fisher, Gavin Hambly, Charles Melville (ed.), The Cambridge History of Iran: From Nadir Shah to the Islamic Republic, Cambridge University Press, 1991

Jwaideh, Wadie (2006). The Kurdish national movement: its origins and development
Also even the source about Zand Dynasty says they are a branch of Kurds. So why are you even keeping this discussion alive if even sources speak of Laki as small lori origin and as a branch of Kurds?

I think you need to read the source again. I have contact to one of the world most respected linguistis. Prof. Dr. Kreyenbroeck is one of the three most respected linstuists on Iranic studies in this world. And he will tell you that Lori, has shifted through contact to Persians into Southwest Iranian. But in the past their language was more akine to Kurdish. But than we are talking about Big Lors here, not the small Lors which are still considered as Kurds and to which the Zand Dynasty belonged.





Some of their grammatical structure and loudshifts are typical for Kurdish dialects and not found in Persian. I have provided you a source that some of them seperated from Kurds.

[ASSYRIAN_Libra]

Kurds from Turkey and Syria can't even stand Iraqi Kurds (except the Yezidi), they seem like a whole different ethnic group that they can even understand each other.

[Demhat]

Kurds from Turkey and Syria can't even stand Iraqi Kurds (except the Yezidi), they seem like a whole different ethnic group that they can even understand each other.

What you trying to say? I can't understand you but surely I understand Iraqi and Syrian Kurds.

But I know that Assyrians claim Syriacs and Chaldeans to be Assyrians too, what they aren't.

[ASSYRIAN_Libra]

What you trying to say? I can't understand you but surely I understand Iraqi and Syrian Kurds.

But I know that Assyrians claim Syriacs and Chaldeans to be Assyrians too, what they aren't.

Apparently, The Kurds and Assyrian in Syria gets along very well, thank you very much.

Lastly, I came from Chaldean Catholic church from my father and we all claimed Assyrian.

[Anglojew]

Sounds like a plan

[Demhat]

Apparently, The Kurds and Assyrian in Syria gets along very well, thank you very much.

Lastly, I came from Chaldean Catholic church from my father and we all claimed Assyrian.

Sure you are Chakdean what a coincidence. :lol:

If it wasn't for the Kurds in Iraq your people would have been slaughtered be thankfull instead spreeding hatred about them.

[StonyArabia]

Don't feel offended if some Kurds curse or dislike Arabs. Cause the thing is when they do so, most of the time they have Iraqis, Syrians in mind which have been opressing since the creation of Iraq and Syria by France.

Iraq was created by Britain and Syria by France. Iraq was originally a gift to the Hashmite family from the British before the coup that occurred which replaced it with various forms of republics, also Kurds in Iraq had their cultural, linguistic rights respected until the 1970's when things began to spiral downwards and especially after the Iraq-Iran war. Kurds in other places had limited cultural and linguistic rights. That said I agree with Kurdish independence, because it will give insight to people seeking it as well like Ahwazis, Arab islanders, Baloch, and various other groups.







The cover of the book.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-U4lF6OnFXww/UMPu-EU_-oI/AAAAAAAAQy0/N2qmpdyl4_w/s1600/1023_1.jpg

Slowly but steady the impact Kurds played on the Middle East and especially during the Ottoman Empire comes to light.[/QUOTE]

[Proto-Shaman]

I knew some Turk was bound to pull this card sooner or later. Already refuted on the previous page.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?129834-The-first-ever-racist-Kurdish-politician&p=2729497&viewfull=1#post2729497
Only mental illness can cause such zero arguments. Historical facts remain... historical facts. Get over it.


I'm aware that some historical accounts would have us believe so, but can you cite any of the abundant genetic tests performed on Kurds in which significant admixture from Turkmen is indicated?(you would have to look out for markers such as Mongoloid admix. for autosomal DNA, haplogroups etc).

I have seen none.
http://www.gazikitabevi.com.tr/TR/resim/1-46524/kpk0000000000.JPG
http://www.gazikitabevi.com.tr/TR/belge/1-13081/kayip-turkler-etnik-cografya-bakimindan-kurtlesen-turkm-.html

You are such a noob, even you KURDS are much more Turkic than Anatolian Turks in general!

Further reading:
http://www.yalquzaq.com/?p=9634
http://tarihturklerdebaslar.wordpress.com/2012/11/07/kurtlesmis-turk-boylari-kurtlesen-turkler/

And the Kurdification of Turkmens in North Iraq still continues.

[Pontios]

We're at a tipping point right now, thanks to the ISIS invasion the Kurdish army obtained a motive to occupy the so-called 'disputed areas'(claimed by Kurdistan but previously under Iraqi administration), operations which are now complete. Oil exports have also commenced (thus giving us an independent source of income), and with Iraq receiving F-16s from the US, the time to separate in a smooth way is now or never.

I wish all Kurds freedom and an independent Kurdistan!

[ASSYRIAN_Libra]

Sure you are Chakdean what a coincidence. :lol:

If it wasn't for the Kurds in Iraq your people would have been slaughtered be thankfull instead spreeding hatred about them.

I'm not trying to spread hatred, but I was stating from what I heard. Maybe misinformation in my part, perhaps? Honestly, I would trust the Kurds more than the Iraqi government ARABS. Another problem is, Assyrian in the west are having misinformation as well. The only issues I have with Kurds is how some very few Kurdish thugs going into Assyrian villages causing trouble, and I know the KGR don't tolerate it that.

[Demhat]

I'm not trying to spread hatred, but I was stating from what I heard. Maybe misinformation in my part, perhaps? Honestly, I would trust the Kurds more than the Iraqi government ARABS. Another problem is, Assyrian in the west are having misinformation as well. The only issues I have with Kurds is how some very few Kurdish thugs going into Assyrian villages causing trouble, and I know the KGR don't tolerate it that.


Well this was misinformation than. Kurds in Syrian Kurdistan most of Turkish Kurdistan, Northern part of Iranian Kurdistan and half of Iraqi Kurdistan (the Western half of KRG) understand each other. The linguistic division is not based on state borders. Allot of Assyrians in the West, despite the good will of KRG taking Assyrians refugees from Bagdad, are making Anti Kurdish Propaganda. I personally haven't yet heard of any Kurdish people causing trouble in Assyrian villages. Even if so it must have been rather rare cases.

[ASSYRIAN_Libra]

Well this was misinformation than. Kurds in Syrian Kurdistan most of Turkish Kurdistan, Northern part of Iranian Kurdistan and half of Iraqi Kurdistan (the Western half of KRG) understand each other. The linguistic division is not based on state borders. Allot of Assyrians in the West, despite the good will of KRG taking Assyrians refugees from Bagdad, are making Anti Kurdish Propaganda. I personally haven't yet heard of any Kurdish people causing trouble in Assyrian villages. Even if so it must have been rather rare cases.
I think it was more of a rare case. I think the common complaint was coming into villages and building things for tourism or something like that.

[Demhat]

I think it was more of a rare case. I think the common complaint was coming into villages and building things for tourism or something like that.

I think I know about which incidence you speak. And this incidence wasn't directed towards Christians but used by Assyrian diaspora as propaganda.

There was once an incidence a few years ago, when some Mllah in the mosque preached hate towards the Hotels, Chinese massage saloons and alcohol stores in which according to him prostitution was performed. He stir up a group of youth which went through the cities and set Kurdish Hotels, Chinese massage saloons and aclohol stores which were mostly run by Assyrians, on fire. However no one died just material damage. The Mullah was arrested.

It wasn't any ethnically motivated crime. But Diaspora Assyrians were fast in using it as propaganda material. All over the internet. The Mullahs asked for a law which forbids any of those massage saloons or alcohol stores hundred meter in the near of any mosque and since then I have never heard of such incidence.

It was just the one incidence as far as I know.

[ASSYRIAN_Libra]

I think I know about which incidence you speak. And this incidence wasn't directed towards Christians but used by Assyrian diaspora as propaganda.

There was once an incidence a few years ago, when some Mllah in the mosque preached hate towards the Hotels, Chinese massage saloons and alcohol stores in which according to him prostitution was performed. He stir up a group of youth which went through the cities and set Kurdish Hotels, Chinese massage saloons and aclohol stores which were mostly run by Assyrians, on fire. However no one died just material damage. The Mullah was arrested.

It wasn't any ethnically motivated crime. But Diaspora Assyrians were fast in using it as propaganda material. All over the internet. The Mullahs asked for a law which forbids any of those massage saloons or alcohol stores hundred meter in the near of any mosque and since then I have never heard of such incidence.

It was just the one incidence as far as I know.

Oh yes, I've heard about that. But that was not the one I mean, but nothing as extreme or bad as that. I'm talking about development projects for new comers and tourism, building on rural land that is around Assyrian villages in Dohuk. That was the complaint that I've heard.

Even that, I don't think anyone should make such projects, maybe worry about building a forest or something that contribute to the natural environment like what Armenia is doing. It lacks forest it once had. I'm sure many Kurds would agree with me on that LOL

[Demhat]

Oh yes, I've heard about that. But that was not the one I mean, but nothing as extreme or bad as that. I'm talking about development projects for new comers and tourism, building on rural land that is around Assyrian villages in Dohuk. That was the complaint that I've heard.

Even that, I don't think anyone should make such projects, maybe worry about building a forest or something that contribute to the natural environment like what Armenia is doing. It lacks forest it once had. I'm sure many Kurds would agree with me on that LOL

Well than this is surely complaining on big standards. Of course there should be more forest even Kurds complain about that. But is that really considered "bad treatmend"?

[ASSYRIAN_Libra]

Well than this is surely complaining on big standards. Of course there should be more forest even Kurds complain about that. But is that really considered "bad treatmend"?

The reason why I mentioned forest because I'm a nature lover type of person. I can talk about different trees and plants all day. I just thought it was nice ending to add that part, but that was not related to bad treatment, except the the whole invasion on Assyrian property as mentioned earlier. However, I think investing on afforestation sounds nice to me. Which is a whole different topic.

Lastly, I really want to say I wasn't raised to hate Kurds because my grandfather originally from Urmia, Iran who lived around the Kurds and knew how to speak the language.