Are a Haplogroup U5 Holders The Only Real Europeans?

[Anglojew]

The haplotype of the mitochondrial DNA known as U5 entered in Europe during the Upper Paleolithic[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Basques


As the ice began to retreat about 15,000 years ago, haplogroup U5 was among the first people to repopulate central and northern Europe. We know this because U5 is the dominant haplogroup in ancient remains of early hunter-gatherer populations in Europe, with U5 and its sister group U4 representing about 90% of the earliest Mesolithic hunter-gatherers. The 2013 Fu et al. study found haplogroup U5 in both pre-ice age Paleolithic remains and post-ice age Mesolithic remains, and they conclude: "Because the majority of late Paleolithic and Mesolithic mtDNAs analyzed to date fall on one of the branches of U5, our data provide some support for maternal genetic continuity between the pre- and post-ice age European hunter-gatherers from the time of first settlement to the onset of the Neolithic."

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/u5b/default.aspx?section=results

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/mtDNA-U5-map.png

Are haplogroup U5 holders the only genuine Europeans?

[I've Her Son]

Sadly, the haplogroup narrative totally fails to take in to account Neanderthals, who lived in Europe over 100,000 years ago. It totally ignores them, because it is well understood that Neanderthals are the wrench in the gear of the refuted Out-of-Africa theory. Europeans have a Neanderthal, not African, origin. There was never a haplogroup that "entered in to Europe" in the Upper Paleolithic. Europeans are a byproduct of several thousands of years of Neanderthal evolution; there is continuity in the European fossil record from 50,000YBP to present time and large numbers of European males recapitulate the known Neanderthal fossils, including those from the middle paleolithic. Like the haplogroup obsession itself, Basques are a mere novelty; nothing significant, nothing worth researching. The moment people get this through their heads is the moment that they will begin the healing process of several decades of ignorance.

[Anglojew]

Sadly, the haplogroup narrative totally fails to take in to account Neanderthals, who lived in Europe over 100,000 years ago. It totally ignores them, because it is well understood that Neanderthals are the wrench in the gear of the refuted Out-of-Africa theory. Europeans have a Neanderthal, not African, origin. There was never a haplogroup that "entered in to Europe" in the Upper Paleolithic. Europeans are a byproduct of several thousands of years of Neanderthal evolution; there is continuity in the European fossil record from 50,000YBP to present time and large numbers of European males recapitulate the known Neanderthal fossils, including those from the middle paleolithic. Like the haplogroup obsession itself, Basques are a mere novelty; nothing significant, nothing worth researching. The moment people get this through their heads is the moment that they will begin the healing process of several decades of ignorance.

Actually no;


The age of U5 is estimated at 30-50,000 years. Approximately 11% of total Europeans and 10% of European-Americans are in haplogroup U5. In 'The Seven Daughters of Eve', this haplogroup, as well as Haplogroup U in general, is labelled 'Clan Ursula'. Haplogroup U5 is believed to be the oldest single branch of Haplogroup U, hence the sharing of the 'Ursula' designation by both groups. Because of that, it is widely believed that it was this branch who then interbred with another ancient European race, the Neanderthals themselves.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_U_(mtDNA)

Or should I say, "grunt."

[I've Her Son]

As I said; Out-of-Africa is bullshit, there was no interbreeding between a non-existent group of modern Europeans and Neanderthals. You are not going to impress me by posting wikipedia entries. There is continuity in the fossil record in the years 50,000-20,000 YBP, with one of the "last Neanderthals" (Saint Cesaire 1) being metrically and morphologically almost exactly like one of the first "Cro-Magnons" (Predmosti III), there are old Levallois deposits in Spain where this supposed "migration and intermixing" was taking place dating to the early 20,000s, and no cultural indications of migrants whatsoever; the so-called "upper paleolithic revolution" is now known to have been an entirely Neanderthal phenomenon created and perpetuated entirely by Neanderthals. There were no hybrids, there was no interbreeding, all of those talking points were rooted entirely on misunderstanding, lies and political correctness dogma.

[Fire Haired]

We belong to the oldest known human maternal lineage to exist and originate in the general area of Europe, that was the most popular lineage in Pre LGM and post-LGM hunter gatherer people of Europe. This feels repetitive, I thought you already knew this.

[Anglojew]

We belong to the oldest known human maternal lineage to exist and originate in the general area of Europe, that was the most popular lineage in Pre LGM and post-LGM hunter gatherer people of Europe. This feels repetitive, I thought you already knew this.

Yes, so everyone else is a relative newcomer.

[Black Wolf]

Of course we are. :P

[cally]

U4 and U5!!

[Isleño]

U4 and U5!!

I also have haplogroup U, but it's U6. Actually U6b1. My paternal is R1b.

[1stLightHorse]

Maternally, yeah. But by the same logic you could say only Y-dna haplogroup I individuals are the only true Europeans.

[Herr Abubu]

Only Neolithic haplogroups are European proper since European as a concept stems from Graeco-Roman culture.

[Fire Haired]

U4 and U5!!

Surprising combination for both sides of the family.

[Fire Haired]

I also have haplogroup U, but it's U6. Actually U6b1. My paternal is R1b.

U6 originated in northwest Africa around the same time U5 originated in Europe.

[Anglojew]

Maternally, yeah. But by the same logic you could say only Y-dna haplogroup I individuals are the only true Europeans.

Yeah good analogy

http://anthropology.ua.edu/blogs/ashleystewart/files/2012/09/ydna_map.jpg

[Isleño]

U6 originated in northwest Africa around the same time U5 originated in Europe.

Yes, they are of the same haplogroup U. I'm U6b1, which is Canarian specific, but is also found in Iberia, and now the Americas.

[Figaro]

Yes, every non-U5 is a depigmented Paki.

(PLEASE understand I am joking)

[Jackson]

No, but our direct maternal ancestors were some of the earliest people in what is now Europe according to current understanding, which is pretty cool!

[Majic Eyes Only]

Anglojew; how many times do I have to tell you, Neanderthals became "cro-Magnons" through mutation or adaptation. There was never a migration in to Europe from a foreign source. No "Out of Afirca", no "out of Asia." Just Neanderthals gradually becoming "anatomically modern humans" while retaining many distinct Neanderthal morphologies (as Cro Magnons did).

[Anglojew]

Anglojew; how many times do I have to tell you, Neanderthals became "cro-Magnons" through mutation or adaptation. There was never a migration in to Europe from a foreign source. No "Out of Afirca", no "out of Asia." Just Neanderthals gradually becoming "anatomically modern humans" while retaining many distinct Neanderthal morphologies (as Cro Magnons did).

I like the theory. Can you prove it though? CMs couldn't look more different from Neanderthals though (in terms of phenotype?)

http://hugequestions.com/Eric/Neanderthals/Neanderthal-and-Cro-Magnon-skulls.jpg

[Majic Eyes Only]

I like the theory. Can you prove it though? CMs couldn't look more different from Neanderthals though (in terms of phenotype?)

http://hugequestions.com/Eric/Neanderthals/Neanderthal-and-Cro-Magnon-skulls.jpg

That is not a Cro-Magnon, that is the Les Eyzies skull which is now believed to belong to a medieval Frenchman, not a Cro Magnon. Its layer was recently re-dated to 500 AD. The earliest "Cro Magnon" looks more like a Neanderthal than the last "Neanderthal," and also the 100,000 year old Skhul specimens from Israel.

Predmosti 3 "Cro Magnon" vs Saint-Cesaire 1 "Neanderthal"

http://i42.tinypic.com/sgo9c4.jpg

It is important to note that the "classic" Neanderthals of western Europe had undergone a process of speciation through inbreeding that was a consequence of the closing up of Europe by the glacial maximum period of around 80,000 years ago. The earliest Neanderthals, called protoNeanderthals (saccopastore), are more gracile and less gorilloid than the later, so-called "classic Neanderthals." Furthermore, the last Neanderthals (Saint Cesaire, Spy 2) have undergone their own unique evolution/mutation that doesn't resemble either of the previous two. They look like "protocromagnons".

[Majic Eyes Only]

Forgot to add -- Even if we count Les Eyzies as a Cro-Magnon skull, we find distinct Neanderthal affinities, such as:

Bigonial breadth exceeds mandibular length
Interorbital distance is extreme
Cranial vault elongated and broad
Cranial vault has typical "en bombe" shape of classical Neanderthals
Cranial vault height is actually lower than the Levantine Neanderthals
Cranial capacity exceeds 1600cc (modern average is in the mid 1400s)
Midfacial prognathism (Les Eyzies zygomata and orbits retreat like the Neanderthal)
Beak-like nasal projection
Wide palate