Regionalism in Romania

[Fakirbakir]

The organizations of ethnic Hungarians in Romania are often accused of separatism (even if they want only greater autonomy). However, ethnic Romanians have also started to support regionalism [such as Democratic League of Transylvania (Liga Transilvania Democrată), League of Banat (Liga Banateana), Liga Pro Europa, Liga Transilvania-Banat etc]. Beside the Hungarian autonomy projects (Partium, Transylvania or Szeklerland) we can see the appearance of Romanian proposals (e.g. Transylvania, Banat, Dobruja). There is an ongoing campaign for Transylvanian autonomy ("AFT"-"Autonomy for Transylvania) and for instance Liga Transilvania Democrată and Sabin Gherman's party openly support it. If you check facebook you will find quite a lot of regionalist pages (Autonomie pentru Moldova/ Autonomy for Moldavia, Autonomie Dobrogei/Autonomy for Dobruja, Autonomy for Transylvania, Liga Bănăţeană etc ).

We can observe an increasing interest for decentralization, regionalization among ethnic Romanians. I am just wondering what the reason is. I know well that "the unity of Romanians" has been the main argument of the Romanian historiography for one hundred years.

[Xanthias]

Never heard about this shit, and I don't think this is tendencies. Btw, Hungarians have never been in Transylvania, get out there.

[Fakirbakir]

Never heard about this shit, and I don't think this is tendencies. Btw, Hungarians have never been in Transylvania, get out there.

Here is the program of the Liga Banateana:

http://www.ligabanateana.ro/program.htm

[Fakirbakir]

Politicians in Dobruja are becoming regionalists:

http://www.provincianews.ro/dupa-asa-zisul-tinut-secuiescu-alta-regiune-vrea-autonomie_25494.html

[blogen]

The regionalism is not a surprise in Romania, since the country's unit a miracle with this economic situation:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Romania_-_Nominal_GDP_per_Capita_by_County.png

The fate of the local taxes:
http://www.stiridecluj.ro/files/images/big_6dfbf50904b21ab82e2c183d05325b6f.jpg
>100% = financed counties
100% = all tax return
<100= financing counties (the recurrent part from their tax)

Transylvania and Dobruca are an exploited colony for Romania, so the regionalism is quasi decolonialism in Romania.

[Xanthias]

The organizations of ethnic Hungarians in Romania are often accused of separatism (even if they want only greater autonomy). However, ethnic Romanians have also started to support regionalism [such as Democratic League of Transylvania (Liga Transilvania Democrată), League of Banat (Liga Banateana), Liga Pro Europa, Liga Transilvania-Banat etc]. Beside the Hungarian autonomy projects (Partium, Transylvania or Szeklerland) we can see the appearance of Romanian proposals (e.g. Transylvania, Banat, Dobruja). There is an ongoing campaign for Transylvanian autonomy ("AFT"-"Autonomy for Transylvania) and for instance Liga Transilvania Democrată and Sabin Gherman's party openly support it. If you check facebook you will find quite a lot of regionalist pages (Autonomie pentru Moldova/ Autonomy for Moldavia, Autonomie Dobrogei/Autonomy for Dobruja, Autonomy for Transylvania, Liga Bănăţeană etc ).

We can observe an increasing interest for decentralization, regionalization among ethnic Romanians. I am just wondering what the reason is. I know well that "the unity of Romanians" has been the main argument of the Romanian historiography for one hundred years.

Talking about "unity", romanians are one homogenous people with one common language, no derivation found amongt the regions (except Moldova which isn't part of Romania yet) so I don't understand why they would want to separate, except for econoomical reason. "ethnicity" isn't somthing very ancred in romanians generally.

[Xanthias]

Transylvania and Dobruca are an exploited colony for Romania, so the regionalism is quasi decolonialism in Romania.

Exactly what I said, mainly for economical reasons. Thank you blogen.

and you have a big fucking mouth to say "colony" for a country that hasn't had any for his entire history, butI understand your pathetic low-levelness trying to filthy reliate something that has no relation with, such being common in your inferior steppic wastelands.

Let's not even mention the weird shit that is going on in a country that pretends to be more westernized than any central european countr, while some weird shaman party like Jobbik worships to be part of a greater pan-turanims continent, along with their affiliated inbred turkic cousins.

you stupid steppic folk people are really weird, aren't you ?

[blogen]

Exactly what I said, mainly for economical reasons.
and you have a big fucking mouth to say "colony" for a country that hasn't had any for his entire history, butI understand your pathetic low-levelness trying to filthy reliate something that has no relation with, such being common in your inferior pathetic steppic lands.

Blahblahblah. What is the essence?

[Fakirbakir]

Exactly what I said, mainly for economical reasons.

Beside the economic issues, it is quite interesting to see that Romanian regionalists have begun to appreciate non-Romanian cultural traditions:

http://www.neuerweg.ro/de-ce-liga-transilvania-democrata/

[Xanthias]

Beside the economic issues, it is quite interesting to see that Romanian regionalists have begun to appreciate non-Romanian cultural traditions:

http://www.neuerweg.ro/de-ce-liga-transilvania-democrata/

-mainly incongnito by romanians.
-this identity was taken Transylvanian Hungarian intellectuals in particular, looking for landmarks stabilization after Trianon drama.

again, baseless falsified bullshit of your own, there not even a saxon represental of your own that wants autonomy in Transylvania.

[Xanthias]

Blahblahblah. What is the essence?

my main reason is that there no ethnic, historical or even political reason that has been ungoing in Romania for 1000 that clamied separation (except Transylvania which we all know remains contreversial still today), not like in France, GB or other countries in Europe who fought separation for centuries.

If the country wasn't so corrupted (and I am not saying it's because of this) maybe we would have also solved the economical disparaities that remains very great in Romania, but I doubt this is more economical than "infiltrated" wannabe seperatists that wants just to cause troubles in the country, hired by some leftist liberalo-communists whose main purpose remains to gather more money behind the back of the population.

[Fakirbakir]

-mainly incongnito by romanians.
-this identity was taken Transylvanian Hungarian intellectuals in particular, looking for landmarks stabilization after Trianon drama.

again, baseless falsified bullshit of your own, there not even a saxon represental of your own that wants autonomy in Transylvania.

Look, my cited source (neuerweg.ro) writes about "Liga Transilvania Democrată". It is a (ethnic)Romanian non-governmental organization, its chairman is Tudor Duică. There is a Transylvanian Romanian identity (have you heard about Sabin Gherman's party?). I did not mention Hungarian regionalist organisations (such as Partidul Popular Maghiar din Transilvania, Partidul Civic Maghiar, UDMR, Consiliul Național al Maghiarilor din Transilvania, Consiliul Naţional Secuiesc etc...) when I started the thread because I want to get acquainted with the (ethnic)Romanian point of views.

You will not really find Saxon representatives in Romania (more accurately, you will find only one, Klaus Iohannis). Saxon heritage is substantial in Transylvania, but unfortunately, they are almost disappeared from Romania. According to the 2011 census the number of Swabians and Saxons was only 36,884 (in 1939 it was 786,000).

[Xanthias]

Look, my cited source (neuerweg.ro) writes about "Liga Transilvania Democrată". It is a (ethnic)Romanian non-governmental organization, its chairman is Tudor Duică. There is a Transylvanian Romanian identity (have you heard about Sabin Gherman's party?). I did not mention Hungarian regionalist organisations (such as Partidul Popular Maghiar din Transilvania, Partidul Civic Maghiar, UDMR, Consiliul Național al Maghiarilor din Transilvania, Consiliul Naţional Secuiesc etc...) when I started the thread because I want to get acquainted with the (ethnic)Romanian point of views.

You will not really find Saxon representatives in Romania (more accurately, you will find only one, Klaus Iohannis). Saxon heritage is substantial in Transylvania, but unfortunately, they are almost disappeared from Romania. According to the 2011 census the number of Swabians and Saxons was only 36,884 (in 1939 it was 786,000).

yet again, I am not saying this is a minority but this only proves what I am saying: there is not such a strong will of the romanian population to get separated because there isn't simply any separatistic believes (most romanians believe they are "romanians" romanians, not like other separatists ethnic groups whose wants to have their "ethnic" national independency from the main country). you didn't mention the magyar party (I would say it's okay) although I am not so sure if the other parties would be considered as the main influental parties over Transylvanian independency.

[blogen]

my main reason is that there no ethnic, historical or even political reason that has been ungoing in Romania for 1000 that clamied separation (except Transylvania which we all know remains contreversial still today), not like in France, GB or other countries in Europe who fought separation for centuries.

If the country wasn't so corrupted (and I am not saying it's because of this) maybe we would have also solved the economical disparaities that remains very great in Romania, but I doubt this is more economical than "infiltrated" wannabe seperatists that wants just to cause troubles in the country, hired by some leftist liberalo-communists whose main purpose remains to gather more money behind the back of the population.

I hope this is the official Romanian politics too, since the present Greater-Romanian state's contradictions are serious and this mostly economicaly unfair situation weakens this entity.

[Zmey Gorynych]

Wishful thinking from the asiatics. Not gonna happen. Romania will most likely get bigger by uniting with Moldova.

[Vlach]

Talking about "unity", romanians are one homogenous people with one common language, no derivation found amongt the regions (except Moldova which isn't part of Romania yet) so I don't understand why they would want to separate, except for econoomical reason. "ethnicity" isn't somthing very ancred in romanians generally.

They dont wanna to be separate, the people from Banat and Dobruja are ok, they wanna just some economy authonomy. There's are just few bozgors and some syndrome down romanians from Transylvania what think that the Banat,Crisana,Ardeal,Maramures=Transylvania and they wanna indepedence/total authonomy

[Vlach]

Wishful thinking from the asiatics. Not gonna happen. Romania will most likely get bigger by uniting with Moldova.

Trust me, there's are not separatist movements, if you wanna economic atuhonomy this dont means you wanna to be a indepedent country.

[Vlach]

Look, my cited source (neuerweg.ro) writes about "Liga Transilvania Democrată". It is a (ethnic)Romanian non-governmental organization, its chairman is Tudor Duică. There is a Transylvanian Romanian identity (have you heard about Sabin Gherman's party?). I did not mention Hungarian regionalist organisations (such as Partidul Popular Maghiar din Transilvania, Partidul Civic Maghiar, UDMR, Consiliul Național al Maghiarilor din Transilvania, Consiliul Naţional Secuiesc etc...) when I started the thread because I want to get acquainted with the (ethnic)Romanian point of views.

You will not really find Saxon representatives in Romania (more accurately, you will find only one, Klaus Iohannis). Saxon heritage is substantial in Transylvania, but unfortunately, they are almost disappeared from Romania. According to the 2011 census the number of Swabians and Saxons was only 36,884 (in 1939 it was 786,000).

hahaha Sabin Gherman is a stupid gipsy

[Vlach]

The regionalism is not a surprise in Romania, since the country's unit a miracle with this economic situation:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Romania_-_Nominal_GDP_per_Capita_by_County.png

The fate of the local taxes:
http://www.stiridecluj.ro/files/images/big_6dfbf50904b21ab82e2c183d05325b6f.jpg
>100% = financed counties
100% = all tax return
<100= financing counties (the recurrent part from their tax)

Transylvania and Dobruca are an exploited colony for Romania, so the regionalism is quasi decolonialism in Romania.

Prahova,Iasi,Arges are important regions, more important than you bozgorian regions Covasna and Harghita. Dont compare Vaslui/Botosani/Calarasi/Ialomita where the life is like in Siberia by winter and like in Sahara by summer with your bozgorian regions where they have good ground for agriculture and wood. And still, your bozgorian regions are one of the poorest.

http://clujcapitala.ro/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/harta-judete1.jpg?0436ea

[Fakirbakir]

They dont wanna to be separate, the people from Banat and Dobruja are ok, they wanna just some economy authonomy. There's are just few bozgors and some syndrome down romanians from Transylvania what think that the Banat,Crisana,Ardeal,Maramures=Transylvania and they wanna indepedence/total authonomy

The !main! Hungarian organizations ( e.g. Szekler National Council, UDMR, or PPMT ) are not separatists but "autonomists". They never said that they wanted "independence". They want only self-governance (+ cultural autonomy and/or territorial autonomy).

[Xanthias]

The !main! Hungarian organizations ( e.g. Szekler National Council, UDMR, or PPMT ) are not separatists but "autonomists". They never said that they wanted "independence". They want only self-governance (+ cultural autonomy and/or territorial autonomy).

but they tend to go towards more an unification with Hungaria, do they ?

[Xanthias]

I hope this is the official Romanian politics too, since the present Greater-Romanian state's contradictions are serious and this mostly economicaly unfair situation weakens this entity.

what contradictions and what are they serious ?

[HERK]

All the European looking Romanians should get out of the country for a short time and then bombard the country to the ASHES, so it can be cleaned from all the gypsyness that is going on in that country. For gods sake have you seen this documentary?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwadpGdskCM

[random]

Who cares about Romania ? such an irrelevant country.

[Vlach]

All the European looking Romanians should get out of the country for a short time and then bombard the country to the ASHES, so it can be cleaned from all the gypsyness that is going on in that country. For gods sake have you seen this documentary?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwadpGdskCM

lol, is true, being a homeless in Bucharest means you are a fucking lazy subhuman shit. You can work in Bucharest and if you have 4 school years.

[Vlach]

The !main! Hungarian organizations ( e.g. Szekler National Council, UDMR, or PPMT ) are not separatists but "autonomists". They never said that they wanted "independence". They want only self-governance (+ cultural autonomy and/or territorial autonomy).

Romania will never accept ethnic territorial autonomy. Szekely land is Transylvania, Szekely land economy sucks.

[Fakirbakir]

Romania will never accept ethnic territorial autonomy. Szekely land is Transylvania, Szekely land economy sucks.

Have you heard about "Regiunea Autonomă Maghiară" or "Regiunea Mureş-Autonomă Maghiară"? Romania accepted the existence of Hungarian autonomy in the past.

Actually, Romania is even unable to accept a harmless cultural autonomy currently. Anyway, I am pretty sure if Dobruja ever gets "autonomy" then Transylvanians will demand their own self-governance.

[Xanthias]

Who cares about Romania ? such an irrelevant country.

don't go on this thread then.

[Vlach]

Have you heard about "Regiunea Autonomă Maghiară" or "Regiunea Mureş-Autonomă Maghiară"? Romania accepted the existence of Hungarian autonomy in the past.

Actually, Romania is even unable to accept a harmless cultural autonomy currently. Anyway, I am pretty sure if Dobruja ever gets "autonomy" then Transylvanians will demand their own self-governance.

There's a project and all wanna the economic regionalism in Romania.

[Vlach]

The !main! Hungarian organizations ( e.g. Szekler National Council, UDMR, or PPMT ) are not separatists but "autonomists". They never said that they wanted "independence". They want only self-governance (+ cultural autonomy and/or territorial autonomy).

Cultural autonomy in Romania? Romania have a lot of lands and regions with different folk cultures. And why you dont wanna to be a part of a East Transylvania economic autonomy region?

[Zmey Gorynych]

All the European looking Romanians should get out of the country for a short time and then bombard the country to the ASHES, so it can be cleaned from all the gypsyness that is going on in that country. For gods sake have you seen this documentary?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwadpGdskCM

Bucharest is one big shithole. Bruz Lee and his buddies should take a trip to Azuga or Aiud concentration camp or he could face in a fight Cheeky Chan :laugh2:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-DxcSIUu9Y

[Fakirbakir]

Cultural autonomy in Romania?
It is not new thing. The Tariceanu government voiced support for cultural autonomy a couple of years ago.

[Vlach]

It is not new thing. The Tariceanu government voiced support for cultural autonomy a couple of years ago.

Why do you know so many about my country? We are so important for you? XD

[blogen]

Romania will never accept ethnic territorial autonomy. Szekely land is Transylvania, Szekely land economy sucks.

Again, all three Székely county are the financier of the Romanian state:

http://www.stiridecluj.ro/files/images/big_6dfbf50904b21ab82e2c183d05325b6f.jpg

But do you want talk about the parasite regions of Moldova and Wallachia?

[Vlach]

Again, all three Székely county are the financier of the Romanian state:

http://www.stiridecluj.ro/files/images/big_6dfbf50904b21ab82e2c183d05325b6f.jpg

But do you want talk about the parasite regions of Moldova and Wallachia?

Are you stupid? Szekely land is Covasna+Harghita, look at them idiot.

This map is from May 2014 or something like that

http://clujcapitala.ro/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/harta-judete1.jpg?0436ea

They have wood and good ground but they are lazy as fuck. :)

[blogen]

Are you stupid? Szekely land is Covasna+Harghita, look at them idiot.

Kovászna, Hargita and a important part of Maros counties:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/T%C3%B6rt_Sz%C3%A9kelyf%C3%B6ld.png
http://mno.hu/data/cikk/1/13/94/82/cikk_1139482/szekely.png


This map is from May 2014 or something like that
They have wood and good ground but they are lazy as fuck. :)

What is this map? Colors and numbers without context. :noidea:

[Vlach]

Kovászna, Hargita and a important part of Maros counties:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/T%C3%B6rt_Sz%C3%A9kelyf%C3%B6ld.png
http://mno.hu/data/cikk/1/13/94/82/cikk_1139482/szekely.png



What is this map? Colors and numbers without context. :noidea:

In Wallachia (arges and prahova) they have Petrom and Dacia. I think is enought. Right? :)

Source of the map:
http://clujcapitala.ro/2014/05/harta-judetelor-vezi-cu-cat-hraneste-clujul-bugetul-national-sudul-romaniei-e-si-muma-si-ciuma/

[blogen]

In Wallachia (arges and prahova) they have Petrom and Dacia. I think is enought. Right? :)

Source of the map:
http://clujcapitala.ro/2014/05/harta-judetelor-vezi-cu-cat-hraneste-clujul-bugetul-national-sudul-romaniei-e-si-muma-si-ciuma/

Ok, but with this context (http://www.economica.net/harta-judetelor_80453.html) i don't understand why you linked this map, since these numbers are not attached directly to the previous map. There was the balance of the reallocation.

[motorhead]

Why do you know so many about my country? We are so important for you? XD

you havent country , just stole area.

[motorhead]

In Wallachia (arges and prahova) they have Petrom and Dacia. I think is enought. Right? :)

Source of the map:
http://clujcapitala.ro/2014/05/harta-judetelor-vezi-cu-cat-hraneste-clujul-bugetul-national-sudul-romaniei-e-si-muma-si-ciuma/

what is the common between Scytho-Magogian Dacia and Vlacho-Cumano-Tatar Romania?

[motorhead]

Are you stupid? Szekely land is Covasna+Harghita, look at them idiot.

This map is from May 2014 or something like that

http://clujcapitala.ro/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/harta-judete1.jpg?0436ea

They have wood and good ground but they are lazy as fuck. :)

But Kovászna and Hargita are Hungarian words

[Fakirbakir]

" Do you think there is a chance for the Szekler region to gain its autonomy?

Within a European and democratic mindset, it has to be possible. This is exactly what democracy means: that we can discuss things and reach a solution together. If I only grant you something because I want to, that is not democracy. A good opportunity could appear if the issue of union with Moldova comes up again on the agenda. Romanians do not want to discuss the issue of the Szekler region, because they say it is “resolved”. But on the other hand, the Moldovan issue is still an open question. History is ever changing; it never comes to a halt. I think that the issue of union between the Romanian nation and Moldova remains open, and if Moldova joins the EU, then a new situation arises. At that point, the Trans- Dniester issue will have to be resolved, and they will then be forced to consider the issue of federalisation in Romania. At that point, we will no longer be talking about 23 million Romanians and 1.5 million Hungarians – there will also be a very significant Slavic minority, backed up by Russia. The guarantees provided to the Slavs will have to be applicable to everyone, including the Hungarians.
This scenario is, I believe, quite possible. As far as I can tell, the Hungarians here believe so too. It would be helpful to begin a dialogue with those in Moldova who seek unity with Romania, and with the Romanian minority communities outside of Romania’s borders – the issues ought to be placed in the framework of international diplomacy. It is better to discuss controversial issues, even if we cannot agree on them. It’s always worse to sweep them under the rug – the conflicts will continue to simmer, even if they are not discussed. "(Andrea Carteny, Italian historian)

[Xanthias]

Again this shit thread ? You asiats are still sticking to your shadow realm out of nothing ?

[Fakirbakir]

The UDMR (Democratic Union of Hungarians in Romania) has released its scheme about Szekler autonomy today.

http://reply.transindex.ro/?cikk=386


The main points of the scheme as follows:

1, Beside Romanian, Hungarian as an official language in Szeklerland

2, "the division of powers", all power to the Szekler regional government except departments of Defence and Foreign affairs

3, The principle of ethnic proportionality in the legislature and bureaucracy

4, Rights of ethnic Romanians in Szeklerland

[Fakirbakir]

Some interesting pictures of the AFT campaign ("Autonomy for Transylvania")

http://www.imagesup.net/?di=9140399225316
http://www.imagesup.net/?di=9140399243410
http://www.imagesup.net/?di=15140399247113
http://www.imagesup.net/?di=714039928401
http://www.imagesup.net/?di=1014039928404
http://www.imagesup.net/?di=1514039928405
http://www.imagesup.net/?di=13140399284014
http://www.imagesup.net/?di=014039928405
http://www.imagesup.net/?di=1014039929717
http://www.imagesup.net/?di=11140399297216

[Xanthias]

The UDMR (Democratic Union of Hungarians in Romania) has released its scheme about Szekler autonomy today.

http://reply.transindex.ro/?cikk=386


The main points of the scheme as follows:

1, Beside Romanian, Hungarian as an official language in Szeklerland

but it is already :picard1:

[Fakirbakir]

but it is already :picard1:

Really? The local police chief of Miercurea Ciuc wrote in an answer letter to the mayor (a couple of days ago) that "the minority language law does not apply to the police"...

[Vlach]

Some interesting pictures of the AFT campaign ("Autonomy for Transylvania")

http://www.imagesup.net/?di=9140399225316
http://www.imagesup.net/?di=9140399243410
http://www.imagesup.net/?di=15140399247113
http://www.imagesup.net/?di=714039928401
http://www.imagesup.net/?di=1014039928404
http://www.imagesup.net/?di=1514039928405
http://www.imagesup.net/?di=13140399284014
http://www.imagesup.net/?di=014039928405
http://www.imagesup.net/?di=1014039929717
http://www.imagesup.net/?di=11140399297216


Stupid magyar page, majority of users have mental problems ( you can understand why I say this because you dont know romanian and you dont see their comments). And the majority of them are not romanians. And the admins are hungarians and they are idiots if they think the will change something with a internet pettition :))

And Banat is not Transylvania, I dont wanna to be in same region with the Transylvania regions, sorry.

[Fakirbakir]

And Banat is not Transylvania, I dont wanna to be in same region with the Transylvania regions, sorry.

Are you an advocate for Banat's autonomy?

[Vlach]

Are you an advocate for Banat's autonomy?

Banat is not Transylvania and all the people from Banat dont wanna to be with Transylvania. We dont care if our money are going to Vaslui and Botosani or our money are going to Hunedoara and Covasna. Banat and Dobrogea are one of the loneliest regions from Romania what can be really a good economical authonomy region, rest of Romania not.

Look at this : http://www.banat.ro/academica/Transilvania.htm