Classify Japanese General Ishii Shirō

[Germaniac]

Head of Unit 731, the Japanese Mengele, let's say.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Shiro-ishii.jpg

[Hexachordia]

Typical sinid.

[Germaniac]

Typical sinid.
Really? I'd say his Tungid+PaleoMongolid.

[Hexachordia]

Really? I'd say his Tungid+PaleoMongolid.

Japanese are not older but purer type of sinid, 3000 years ago ancient sinids will just look like him.Legends tell japanese were from Dongyi people which fled Shang monarchy 1300BC, it makes sense.

[Hexachordia]

3000 years of genetic isolation makes japanese unique looks, sometimes mimic caucasoid features from jomons, sometimes proto looks of sinids.

[Germaniac]

The first Japanese were of D2 Y-DNA, which still accounts for more than 40% of the population, including famous clans like the Sasaki clan. D2 only exists in Japan, and the original D2 carriers were Paleo-Mongoloid. The Yayoi people, coming later from the region of Korea, carrying Y-DNA O and C were mostly Tungids with some Sinid types amongst them. The average Japanese today is Tungid+Paleo Mongoloid. No way the original Japanese were Shang dynasty Chinese. Anyway, this guy's mesognathy, paired with sloping forehead point to a Paleo Mongoloid classification, and the extreme epicanthus points towards Tungid phenotype, so does the wider, flatter malars.

[Smeagol]

Really? I'd say his Tungid+PaleoMongolid.

And you'd be right. Not Sinid at all.

[Smeagol]

Basically, original inhabitants of Japan were the Jomon (Ainuids) who I've heard described as proto Caucasoid. The first real Mongoloids in Japan were Palaemongolids from the Southern Islands, and the Yayoi people, who were mainly a Tungid-Palaemongolid mix. Sinids came last from Northern China, and Korea, but are more heavily represented in the ruling classes.

[Germaniac]

The ruling classes seem to be mostly Yakonid, some with a greater PaleoMongoloid influence. I've noticed that while most of the Japanese population has quite extreme epicanthus and a flat nose, typical of Tungids, while the ruling classes look pseudo caucasoid, many having long, thin, convex noses, less of an epicanthus, and more compressed malars, like Oda Nobunaga, for example.

[Amud]

Yes, I think he belongs to the Coshu / Yakonid type. They have a progressive Ainuid influence that appears Caucasoid, in contrast to many of the historical Ainu pictures which show a more archaic, Australoid-like appearance.

[Germaniac]

Yes, I think he belongs to the Coshu / Yakonid type. They have a progressive Ainuid influence that appears Caucasoid, in contrast to many of the historical Ainu pictures which show a more archaic, Australoid-like appearance.
I agree with him being mostly Yakonid, but he's got a Tungid element too. It seems he wasn't born into a kuge, samurai or daymo family, so I guess he's a commoner.

[Germaniac]

Been studying the subtypes of East Asians. Any book which you can recommend? (PDF links are welcome)

[Smeagol]

Been studying the subtypes of East Asians. Any book which you can recommend? (PDF links are welcome)

Egon von Eickstedt's books are probably the best on the Mongoloid types. I've only read part of them online, because they're basically impossible to find in America. I posted Carleton Coon' summary of Japanese Cranial History from his book "Living Races of Man" also.

[ButlerKing]

The first Japanese were of D2 Y-DNA, which still accounts for more than 40% of the population, including famous clans like the Sasaki clan. D2 only exists in Japan, and the original D2 carriers were Paleo-Mongoloid. The Yayoi people, coming later from the region of Korea, carrying Y-DNA O and C were mostly Tungids with some Sinid types amongst them. The average Japanese today is Tungid+Paleo Mongoloid. No way the original Japanese were Shang dynasty Chinese. Anyway, this guy's mesognathy, paired with sloping forehead point to a Paleo Mongoloid classification, and the extreme epicanthus points towards Tungid phenotype, so does the wider, flatter malars.

Lol Japanese emperors even claim Korean descent.

He wouldn't look any different to average modern Japanese. He looks pure sinid in my opinion or even Korean.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WZz4xp5KTcM/UBlzdrLOBqI/AAAAAAAAlK0/MS2CGnxLe6w/s1600/unit731-4.jpg

[Smeagol]

Lol Japanese emperors even claim Korean descent.

He wouldn't look any different to average modern Japanese. He looks pure sinid in my opinion or even Korean.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WZz4xp5KTcM/UBlzdrLOBqI/AAAAAAAAlK0/MS2CGnxLe6w/s1600/unit731-4.jpg

He can pass as Korean, but he's definitely no pure Sinid.

[ButlerKing]

The ruling classes seem to be mostly Yakonid, some with a greater PaleoMongoloid influence. I've noticed that while most of the Japanese population has quite extreme epicanthus and a flat nose, typical of Tungids, while the ruling classes look pseudo caucasoid, many having long, thin, convex noses, less of an epicanthus, and more compressed malars, like Oda Nobunaga, for example.

Look, this is freaking bullshit :picard2: there is no way ruling class as such when Jomons, Emishi, Ainu were slaves to Japanese in the last 1500 years.

The real picture of Nobunaga is this, drawn during Nobunaga lived.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Odanobunaga.jpg/220px-Odanobunaga.jpg


The Pseudo-Caucasian portrait was drawn a few years after nobugana died in 1582. Jesuit painter only arrived in Japan in 1583 and drew the picture at around 1583- 1590

HE NEVER MET NOBUNAGA

[Iloko]

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/3261/ishic.jpg

Looks Sudsinid/Palaemongolid

http://ec2-184-73-243-168.compute-1.amazonaws.com/wgbh/americanexperience/media/uploads/weapon_ishii_01.jpg

Looks different as he got older though - Yakonid/Coshu/Ainuid/Tungid etc

[ButlerKing]

He can pass as Korean, but he's definitely no pure Sinid.

Okay but he looks nothing like a Ainu or paleo-mongoloid, he doesn't have the slightest pseudo-caucasian trait. I mean come on if the ruling class was really Yakoid ( even though you claimed they are predominately Yayoi with some pseudo-caucasian influence ) why the hell would they considered Ainu races inferior?

ALSO Hirohito, his grandfather, father look just like typical Koreans. His ancestors even during 850 when they were fighting against Emishi ( Jomon / Ainu ) had treated them as hairy barbarians and considered them a completely different race.

It makes no freaking sense to me that the ruling class was mix race Yakoid ( Predominately Yayoi with some Jomon blood ) and yet historically despised and enslaved full blooded Ainu, Emishi. Are you telling me Japanese in the pass couldn't tell the difference between the ruling class and normal people while people like you today can? Even half breed Ainu/Jomon were enslaved so why the hell would ruling class be mixed when they were enslaving the very same people they were partially related with it.

I don't know who invented the word Yakoid but the ruling Japanese family are definately not this type.

Hirohito look 100% like a typical Japanese and Korean.
http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/leontoi/32764742/30174/30174_640.jpg

[ButlerKing]

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/3261/ishic.jpg

Looks Sudsinid/Palaemongolid

http://ec2-184-73-243-168.compute-1.amazonaws.com/wgbh/americanexperience/media/uploads/weapon_ishii_01.jpg

Looks different as he got older though - Yakonid/Coshu/Ainuid/Tungid etc


Here, Ho chi minh with Jomon or paleo-mongoloid features

http://ixij.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/hochiminh-nguyenaiquoc.jpg


A more clearer picture with color shows he is 100% East Asian Mongoloid

http://www.eyeglasseswarehouse.com/images/hochiminh-7.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Typical sinid.

Or maybe Koreanoid? the royal family does claim Korean descent. Anyway I think I can agree they were Sinid, Tungid or Korean but anything like claiming they are Yakoid is too bullshit.

How does it even make sense for the upper class to be mix (even if they looked something 3/4 Korean + 1/4 Ainu ) and still had the guts to enslave pure Ainu and half Ainu for such a long time. I mean if it was true...... I find it very funny that people in the past that people couldn't tell the difference between the royal family and typical Japanese while some forum members here today can?? Ainu were treated like dogs for the way they looked this includes half breed.

Hiroto

https://d13uygpm1enfng.cloudfront.net/article-imgs/en/2011/11/05/AJ2011110516613/AJ2011110416614M.jpg

Taisho emperor ( Hirohito father )

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Emperor_Taisho_cpe_harunomiya_01.jpg


Meiji emperor ( Hirohito grandfather )
http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/meiji27a.gif

[ButlerKing]

The ruling classes seem to be mostly Yakonid, some with a greater PaleoMongoloid influence. I've noticed that while most of the Japanese population has quite extreme epicanthus and a flat nose, typical of Tungids, while the ruling classes look pseudo caucasoid, many having long, thin, convex noses, less of an epicanthus, and more compressed malars, like Oda Nobunaga, for example.

So the leaders of Japan were half pseudo-caucasian race who allowed full Asian Japanese to enslaved Pseudo-caucasian race for 1200 years?

:sad:

Claiming Ainu was white is like saying Japanese had enslaved white people for 1200 years



How were Ainu treated?




Diversity in Japanese Culture and Language

edited by John Christopher Maher, Gaynor Marilyn Macdonald

http://bks9.books.google.co.uk/books?id=orDoIT8kPeIC&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=5&edge=curl&imgtk=AFLRE72gCqsPFnCEk86O67nMrdo0misoq0H0OPhJGPmi NXDgimZuP6ECdNOWXmnJX043MHfApoefR2oDQrisCODDaS1rl-5zaYAyvnCI-sj5MWROSSHT1Y7io95AY472Dyj6tTb0PZHR


They were regarded as 'extremely inferior races', as one Diet Member had expressed it in 1907 (Hokkaido Utari Kyokai ).

Japan's Open Future: An Agenda for Global Citizenship - Page 23

books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=0857286854
John Haffner, ‎Tomas Casas i Klett, ‎Jean-Pierre Lehmann - 2009 - ‎Preview - ‎More editions

http://bks2.books.google.co.uk/books?id=rV3MScF8n48C&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=5&edge=curl&imgtk=AFLRE73-xvHQaigPJ9fhEZfh3GHEg8gx3yl-Hcn4rxHpcN7iN8qtqdQBxgLklro631nhRIUJHD4H7gqASzguf2 401GeIYqfJeqX2ZNAOdzHCCJJ46XQPU9gAmmbA4AysNcHk0cgs nW66

" The indigenous Ainu are often victims of discrimination because they fall outside what is supposed to be the norm, and yet they have stronger Jomon characteristics precisely because they have mixed less with immigrants from China and Korea "


" In the views of Japanese people, the Ainu are considered to be more like animals than human. "

" Ainu children are often teased by Japanese children for their strange appearance "

" Some Ainu who can pass for Japanese generally don't suffer as much discrimination "

" A number of Ainu would avoid identifying with their heritage, looking like Ainu or even partially are often looked down upon "



History of Ainu



" During the Muromachi period (1336–1573), the disputes between Japanese and Ainu eventually developed into a war. Takeda Nobuhiro killed the Ainu leader, Koshamain. Many Ainu were subject to Japanese rule which led to violent Ainu revolt such as the Koshamain's Revolt in 1456 against Japanese influence and control on the island.

During the Tokugawa period (1600–1868) the Ainu became increasingly involved in trade with Japanese who controlled the southern portion of the island that is now called Hokkaido. The Bakufu government granted the Matsumae clan exclusive rights to trade with the Ainu in the northern part of the island. Later the Matsumae began to lease out trading-rights to Japanese merchants, and contact between Japanese and Ainu became more extensive. Throughout this period Ainu became increasingly dependent on goods imported by Japanese, and suffered from epidemic diseases such as smallpox.[10] Although the increased contact brought by trade between the Japanese and the Ainu contributed to increased mutual understanding, sometimes it led to conflict, occasionally intensifying into violent Ainu revolts, of which the most important was Shakushain's Revolt (1669–1672), an Ainu rebellion against Japanese authority.


In a 2009 news story, Japan Today reported, "Many Ainu were forced to work, essentially as slaves, for Wajin (ethnic Japanese), resulting in the breakup of families and the introduction of smallpox, measles, cholera and tuberculosis into their community. In 1869, the new Meiji government renamed Ezo as Hokkaido and unilaterally incorporated it into Japan. It banned the Ainu language, took Ainu land away, and prohibited salmon fishing and deer hunting."[12]



Ancestors of Ainu, the Emishi were extinct by the Asian-Japanese race.

Nickname " Foreign barbarians "

Emishi paying homage to Prince Shotoku. Produced in AD 1324 which is a copy of an original from AD 1069 (From shotokutaishi e-den e-maki)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5a/Emishi_from_an_emaki_circa_1324.jpg


" Some Emishi tribes resisted the rule of the Japanese Emperors during the late Nara and early Heian periods (7th–10th centuries CE) "


The Matsumae clan rule over the Ainu must be understood in the context of the expansion of the Japanese feudal state. Medieval military leaders in northern Honshū maintained only tenuous political and cultural ties to the imperial court and its proxies, the Kamakura Shogunate and Ashikaga Shogunate. Feudal strongmen sometimes located themselves within medieval institutional order, taking shogunal titles, while in other times they assumed titles that seemed to give them a non-Japanese identity. In fact many of the feudal strongmen were descended from Emishi military leaders who had been assimilated into Japanese society.[5] The Matsumae clan were of Yamato descent like other ethnic Japanese state where as the Emishi of northern Honshu where a distinctive group related with Ainu but were conquered and integrated into the Japanese state dating back as far in the 8th century and as result began to lose their distinctive culture and ethnicity as they became minorities. By the time Matsumae clan ruled over the Ainu most of the Emishi were mix and physically more closer to Japanese than they were to Ainu. This dovetails nicely with the "transformation" theory that native Jōmon peoples changed gradually with the infusion of Yayoi immigrants into the Tōhoku rather than the "replacement" theory which posits that one population (Jōmon) was replaced by another (Yayoi).[6]

This is the face of the upper class Japanese Matsumae Takahiro, a Matsumae lord of the late Edo period. December 10, 1829 – June 9, 1866

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Matumae_Takahiro.jpg