Christianity oppressed/banned other religions, while Islam didnt.

[Wadaad]

Proof...there are no adherents of ancient Celtic and Greco-Roman pagan religions surviving today...there are no Manicheans or followers of Mithra, cult of Dionisys or any other mystery religion left from ancient Europe. Why? Because the Church abolished and banned those religions, turned their temples into churches and cathedrals and destroyed their other holy sites.

While in the Islamic world, Christians, Jews, Mandaeans, Sabians, Druze, Yazidis, Zoroastrians etc etc still exist to this day.

Muslims ruled all of Indian subcontinent, which today is still mostly Hindu/Buddhist...compare to the aftermath of the conquest of the Americas...where are the Mayan, Aztec and Inca religions? In the garbage bin of history, because the Church banned and persecuted it.

[McCauley]

And yet Islam today will have your head for practicing another religion openly. Your religion is a good example of how beliefs can progressively radicalize and cause your societies to stagnate.

[Wadaad]

And yet Islam today will have your head for practicing another religion openly. Your religion is a good example of how beliefs can progressively radicalize and cause your societies to stagnate.

Unless you are aware of Islam's 14 centuries of history...pleae dont tell me how much more or less 'progressively radicalized' Islam is today compared to prior generations.

[Vasconcelos]

Sure, let's compare the mentality from 1000 years ago to that of today.

[Wadaad]

Another example...Egypt's Coptic population is always used as a good representative of Egyptian society/language prior to Islam. As if Egypt's native religions had anything to do with Christianity, and inspite of the fact that Egypt's priesthood and religion (which formed a core of ancient Egypt's society) completely dissapeared even before the council of Nicea. The Christians, outside a few crazy gnostic monks who became recluses in the Sinai desert, were NON egyptian at first...Greeks and Hellenized Near Easterners. I wonder what they did to the Ancient Egyptian temples in the name of Christ? Egypt was Christian for only a few centuries by the time Amr ibny Aas came and conquered Egypt for Islam...and already native Egyptian religion was an ancient relic, destroyed and banned by christianity.

While under 1400 years of Islam Egypt still remains 10% Coptic

[McCauley]

Unless you are aware of Islam's 14 centuries of history...pleae dont tell me how much more or less 'progressively radicalized' Islam is today compared to prior generations.

You're right, I don't know much about it, and I don't really intend on learning more. But the idea I got from some brief reading, was that intitially, there was more cultural leniency, and you just needed to adhere to the "four pillars", but as time went on religious leaders started stacking more and more social imperatives on to the original guidelines, until it gets to the point where Muslims are officially forbidden from traveling to Mars.

[roro4721]

The entire Christian population of Anatolia was made to either die or flee, not to mention they weren't considered equals and had to pay higher taxes. Churches and other places of worship were often converted into mosques, there were also a ton of polytheistic religions all over the ME, but most have died out. Not that I'm saying Christians, especially in Europe were better, but saying Islam never oppressed people of other faiths is historical falsification.

[Wadaad]

Sure, let's compare the mentality from 1000 years ago to that of today.

Who is talking about today? Im talking about historically Islam (ie 1000 years ago+) was more tolerant than Christianity of the same era and Christianity before Islam.

Christianity today is defanged and subjugated by technocrats so it cannot impose its will anymore. The last time it did was during colonial era of a century ago...this is why you have more Nigerian, Filipino and Indian cardinals and bishops than European ones.

[Wadaad]

The entire Christian population of Anatolia was made to either die or flee, not to mention they weren't considered equals and had to pay higher taxes. Churches and other places of worship were often converted into mosques, there were also a ton of polytheistic religions all over the ME, but most have died out. Not that I'm saying Christians, especially in Europe were better, but saying Islam never oppressed people of other faiths is a huge historical falsification.

The Armenian and Assyrian genocide was a technocratic operation under the auspices of German officers who learned efficient ways of 'ethnic cleansing' from the British in Boer war and the German's own operations against the Himba people of Namibia. It had nothing to do with Islam, and more to do with Armenians desire for statehood making them willing fifth columnists within the Ottoman empire.

The jizya was a tax Christian ans Jews paid in lieu of military service (mandatory for all Muslims, who could forego by paying someone to go on ther behalf). The jizya was less than the fine Muslims had to pay to avoid military service.

[McCauley]

The Armenian and Assyrian genocide was a technocratic operation under the auspices of German officers who learned efficient ways of 'ethnic cleansing' from the British in Boer war and the German's own operations against the Himba people of Namibia. It had nothing to do with Islam, and more to do with Armenians desire for statehood making them willing fifth columnists within the Ottoman empire.

The jizya was a tax Christian ans Jews paid in lieu of military service (mandatory for all Muslims, who could forego by paying someone to go on ther behalf). The jizya was less than the fine Muslims had to pay to avoid military service.

Ha! You wanna provide some sources for that bullshit?

[Wadaad]

Ha! You wanna provide some sources for that bullshit?

Study the history of Islam first and then maybe I will enlighten you about World War I. World War I and its atrocities isnt relevant to this thread

[McCauley]

Study the history of Islam first and then maybe I will enlighten you about World War I. World War I and its atrocities isnt relevant to this thread

Come on man, so German officers working independently of Ottoman command perpetrated the Armenian genocide? Sounds like a conspiracy theory or something to me.

And what about what happens under Ataturk? There sure as hell werent any German officers in Turkey then.

[Wadaad]

Come on man, so German officers working independently of Ottoman command perpetrated the Armenian genocide? Sounds like a conspiracy theory or something to me.

And what about what happens under Ataturk? There sure as hell werent any German officers in Turkey then.

Bro did I mince my words? I did not claim German officers worked independently of the Turks and were the ones killing Armenians...Germans trained the Turkish military, you know like how America trains the Iraqi and Afghan security forces today. They taught them how to round up people and about concentration camps, forced relocations, logistics for all that, etc...remember everything in the 20th century was about technical shit. Blame the Armenian genocide on 20th century technological advancement.

LOL, Attaturk? Are we talking about Islam vs Christianity or Attaturk?

[RussiaPrussia]

Proof...there are no adherents of ancient Celtic and Greco-Roman pagan religions surviving today...there are no Manicheans or followers of Mithra, cult of Dionisys or any other mystery religion left from ancient Europe. Why? Because the Church abolished and banned those religions, turned their temples into churches and cathedrals and destroyed their other holy sites.

While in the Islamic world, Christians, Jews, Mandaeans, Sabians, Druze, Yazidis, Zoroastrians etc etc still exist to this day.

Muslims ruled all of Indian subcontinent, which today is still mostly Hindu/Buddhist...compare to the aftermath of the conquest of the Americas...where are the Mayan, Aztec and Inca religions? In the garbage bin of history, because the Church banned and persecuted it.

so why arent any middle east pagans left if islam is so tolerant? Why arent egyptians praying to amun instead allah?

[roro4721]

The Armenian and Assyrian genocide was a technocratic operation under the auspices of German officers who learned efficient ways of 'ethnic cleansing' from the British in Boer war and the German's own operations against the Himba people of Namibia. It had nothing to do with Islam, and more to do with Armenians desire for statehood making them willing fifth columnists within the Ottoman empire.

The jizya was a tax Christian ans Jews paid in lieu of military service (mandatory for all Muslims, who could forego by paying someone to go on ther behalf). The jizya was less than the fine Muslims had to pay to avoid military service.

I know about the German role in the genocide and their later holocaust against the Jews was very much inspired by the Turks. I also know that there was a rather small amount of Armenian rebels in Eastern Anatolia, although I take much of it as genocidal propaganda. The Assyrians weren't looking for anything and they were killed because they were Christians just like the Pontic Greeks and Armenians, while the Kurds (although highly oppressed) were still able to live in Anatolia, I take because they were Muslim. Also the Yezidi Kurds, were faced with great prejudice because of their nonconforming religion.

The genocide of Christian Anatolians is just one example, wasn't a woman in Sudan recently arrested for marrying a Christian? Many Coptic Christians and Arab Christians are having to flee their homeland because of an unlivable amount of prejudice.

[McCauley]

Armenian conflicts aren't even a recent thing anyway, they've been hounded by Turks since the Seljuk era when they were in Cilicia. Could that be an example of religious persecution back in those times? Maybe.

[Wadaad]

Christianity cannot compete with Islam in the temporal world...it always lost out to Islam (except in Ethiopia and to a lesser extent Armenia and even lesser, Georgia)

The Crusades waged against Baltic people of Lithuania resulted in them becoming Christian and is why to this day some Germanic people have this uppity sense of entitlement vis-a-vis their Eastern European brethren. The first blitzkrieg and attempt at "Lebensbraum" were the Teutonic knight's crusade aganst the Lithuanian pagan "untermenensch".

The same crusading spirit failed to do anything in the Middle East...this was Christianity's most militant response to Islam and it failed miserably. Now christians are relying on technocrats (like Attaturk) to tame Islam the same way their religion got tamed, instead of supporting Islam the vanguard of Abrahamaic 'tawheed'.

[Empecinado]

What about the deportation to North Africa of all the Christian population under Almoravids in 1126?

[Wadaad]

I know about the German role in the genocide and their later holocaust against the Jews was very much inspired by the Turks. I also know that there was a rather small amount of Armenian rebels in Eastern Anatolia, although I take much of it as genocidal propaganda. The Assyrians weren't looking for anything and they were killed because they were Christians just like the Pontic Greeks and Armenians, while the Kurds (although highly oppressed) were still able to live in Anatolia, I take because they were Muslim. Also the Yezidi Kurds, were faced with great prejudice because of their nonconforming religion.

The genocide of Christian Anatolians is just one example, wasn't a woman in Sudan recently arrested for marrying a Christian? Many Coptic Christians and Arab Christians are having to flee their homeland because of an unlivable amount of prejudice.

How many people ended up in Guantanamo for praying at the 'wrong' mosque or being in the wrong place in the wrong time. Im sure both Christian and Muslims have anecdotal evidence of individual persecution...Im interested in the 'macro trends'.

[McCauley]

Christianity cannot compete with Islam in the temporal world...it always lost out to Islam (except in Ethiopia and to a lesser extent Armenia and even lesser, Georgia)

The Crusades waged against Baltic people of Lithuania resulted in them becoming Christian and is why to this day Germanic people have this uppity sense of entitlement vis-a-vis their Eastern European brethren. The first blitzkrieg and attempt at "Lebensbraum" were the Teutonic knight's crusade aganst the Lithuanian pagan "untermenensch".

Well, these people were considered wild savages that were a threat to the HRE's trade in the region. Ironically, the first Lithuanian king to convert to Christianity, Mindaugas, was also in constant conflict with the Livonians and the Teutonic Order, while he was Christian. Vytautas was Christian and so was Jogaila when the both joined forces to slaughter the Teutons at Grunwald.

Teutonic Order was more about Germans wanting to exert their influence in the region, and just like always, religion was the best pretense. The Baltic crusades started as a religious conflict, but they didn't end that way, with Christian Poles and Lithuanians killing Christian Germans.

[Insuperable]

Yet today

In Mecca
http://i57.tinypic.com/301mwpc.png

Meanwhile in Vatican
http://s3.postimg.org/q7hnbhkoz/Untitled.png

Islam still remains a religion which not tolerates anyone and I am guessing this has to do with your pedophile warlord prophet. Taxes are an important thing too.

[Wadaad]

What about the deportation to North Africa of all the Christian population under Almoravids in 1126?

This was due to them aiding Alfonso in his invasion...Mass exile =/= forced conversion. That their lives were spared shows the mercy of Islam...what did th christians do during the inquisition besides deporting Muslims and Jews? Did they not demand forced conversions?

[Empecinado]

This was due to them aiding Alfonso in his invasion...Mass exile =/= forced conversion. That their lives were spared shows the mercy of Islam...what did th christians do during the inquisition besides deporting Muslims and Jews? Did they not demand forced conversions?

No, they were given to choose conversion or deportation. The mass deportation of 1609 was not religious motivated, all descendants of Muslims (regardless they were still Muslims or not) were deported without distinction because many of them were a fifht column collaborating with Maghrebian pirates and Ottomans.

[Wadaad]

Yet today

In Mecca
http://i57.tinypic.com/301mwpc.png

Meanwhile in Vatican
http://s3.postimg.org/q7hnbhkoz/Untitled.png

Islam still remains a religion which not tolerates anyone and I am guessing this has to do with your pedophile warlord prophet. Taxes are an important thing too.

That is definitely not the Vatican, and if it is...it is due to Christian subjugation to technocratic ideals, and not some tolerance for Islam out of nowhere.

Basically you are upset that Islam clings on to its creed inspite of your demands for 'progress'. What has 'progress' done for the church except accelerate concessions...did the Pope ok condoms and birth control yet or no? Its a matter of time

[Insuperable]

That is definitely not the Vatican, and if it is...it is due to Christian subjugation to technocratic ideals, and not some tolerance for Islam out of nowhere.
Basically you are upset that Islam clings on to its creed inspite of your demands for 'progress'. What has 'progress' done for the church except accelerate concessions...did the Pope ok condoms and birth control yet or no? Its a matter of time

I don't know where it is. The title was prayer at Vatican, but it was some weird site, so probably it isn't Vatican, but surely there were Muslim prayers recently there.

Yes, Islam does clings on its creed. It is a subjugation sect founded by a warlord who raided caravans and led campaigns to conquer Arabia and imposing taxes on "non-believers". Very spiritual man and yes I am very upset.
Christianity was meant to be peaceful just like in the beginning while it was spread by the Apostoles and later under the very persecution. Later on even Christians were fighting Christians because because of stupid differences (like French and English), but this can't be attributed to Christianity, but can only be attributed to the nature of a man not following what he believed in and should stand for just like the me or someone else is not doing that most of the time. Human mind over time evolves and seeks peace and having in the meantime something decent to follow like Christianity a man will tend to be at peace at least for a moment and that is at least one additional reason for progress of nations having good ideal and material to look after. While this Islam thing was founded by a warlord who when tolerated people tolerated them because of taxes so it is no wonder Muslims are still seen as backwards and are unable to to leave any room for discussion of ever evolving 'progress' since they have no good ideals too look after. So, you see how can I be upset that Islam clings on to it's creed when it comes to theological reasons. But, on the other hand I am upset that Islam clings on to its creed because of the betterment of the world.

[Lurker]

Proof...there are no adherents of ancient Celtic and Greco-Roman pagan religions surviving today...there are no Manicheans or followers of Mithra, cult of Dionisys or any other mystery religion left from ancient Europe. Why? Because the Church abolished and banned those religions, turned their temples into churches and cathedrals and destroyed their other holy sites.

While in the Islamic world, Christians, Jews, Mandaeans, Sabians, Druze, Yazidis, Zoroastrians etc etc still exist to this day.

Muslims ruled all of Indian subcontinent, which today is still mostly Hindu/Buddhist...compare to the aftermath of the conquest of the Americas...where are the Mayan, Aztec and Inca religions? In the garbage bin of history, because the Church banned and persecuted it.

To be honest, the death of manicheism falls not only on Christian hands, but on Islamic caliphs and Chinese emperors as well. Manicheism had its adherents from North Africa to China. Christianity isn't the only one responsible for that extinction.

[Lurker]

Christianity cannot compete with Islam in the temporal world...it always lost out to Islam (except in Ethiopia and to a lesser extent Armenia and even lesser, Georgia)

The Crusades waged against Baltic people of Lithuania resulted in them becoming Christian and is why to this day some Germanic people have this uppity sense of entitlement vis-a-vis their Eastern European brethren. The first blitzkrieg and attempt at "Lebensbraum" were the Teutonic knight's crusade aganst the Lithuanian pagan "untermenensch".

The same crusading spirit failed to do anything in the Middle East...this was Christianity's most militant response to Islam and it failed miserably. Now christians are relying on technocrats (like Attaturk) to tame Islam the same way their religion got tamed, instead of supporting Islam the vanguard of Abrahamaic 'tawheed'.

Well, Russia was quite able to christianize the tatars. 400 years ago basically all of Southern Russia and Ukraine was muslim, with some Buddhists here and there (kalmykya).

[Fedex]

Is true that 1000 years ago Islamic countries were far more progressive than christian ones, specially catholic ones. But those times are long gone, Islamic countries today are even more radical than they were 1000 years ago.

[Wadaad]

Well, Russia was quite able to christianize the tatars. 400 years ago basically all of Southern Russia and Ukraine was muslim, with some Buddhists here and there (kalmykya).

Contemporary Tatars are still mostly Muslim http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volga_Tatars http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Tatars

[Peyrol]

Proof...there are no adherents of ancient Celtic and Greco-Roman pagan religions surviving today...there are no Manicheans or followers of Mithra, cult of Dionisys or any other mystery religion left from ancient Europe. Why? Because the Church abolished and banned those religions, turned their temples into churches and cathedrals and destroyed their other holy sites.

While in the Islamic world, Christians, Jews, Mandaeans, Sabians, Druze, Yazidis, Zoroastrians etc etc still exist to this day.

Muslims ruled all of Indian subcontinent, which today is still mostly Hindu/Buddhist...compare to the aftermath of the conquest of the Americas...where are the Mayan, Aztec and Inca religions? In the garbage bin of history, because the Church banned and persecuted it.

The problem is that the Church changed a lot in last 2000 years...it even changed a lot since the 2nd Vatican Council, so you can imagine how is changed in 200 years.
Plus, many persecutions against pagans were done by heretic doctrines as the arians, the calcidonians, etc.

[LightHouse89]

Paganism was not allowed because it was a threat to the Roman catholic faith. I do not know so much about Orhtodox christians and how their area of the world was, they were different. But in Northern Europe many pagan religions survived even under christianity because Northern Europeans have always had a way of telling the Vatican to go fuck themselves. This would later spark the Protestant christian doctrine.... although they became more fanatical than Catholics [they claim that praying to dead saints was paganism which was not necessarily true].

However paganism did survive and mytholgies were record in most of western europe....despite the church trying to ban all of that as well. Some who recorded it were monks.

I would say Islam and Christianity were both oppressive.. Catholics in the begining more so, however Jews and some other religions did live under the Catholic areas of influence until the Inquisition [or the great purge].

[Vasconcelos]

I would say Islam and Christianity were both oppressive.. Catholics in the begining more so, however Jews and some other religions did live under the Catholic areas of influence until the Inquisition [or the great purge].

In Iberia many, if not most, Jews lived on the islamic-controlled areas because they were generally (but not always) more tolerant towards them.

[Raven_]

Christianity cannot compete with Islam in the temporal world...it always lost out to Islam (except in Ethiopia and to a lesser extent Armenia and even lesser, Georgia)

The Crusades waged against Baltic people of Lithuania resulted in them becoming Christian and is why to this day some Germanic people have this uppity sense of entitlement vis-a-vis their Eastern European brethren. The first blitzkrieg and attempt at "Lebensbraum" were the Teutonic knight's crusade aganst the Lithuanian pagan "untermenensch".

The same crusading spirit failed to do anything in the Middle East...this was Christianity's most militant response to Islam and it failed miserably. Now christians are relying on technocrats (like Attaturk) to tame Islam the same way their religion got tamed, instead of supporting Islam the vanguard of Abrahamaic 'tawheed'.

Northern Crusades barely play a role in historical consciousness of Germans.

[Yehiel]

My ancestors were forced to leave Spain or convert, under xian rule. When the muslims ruled we were fine it was the golden age

[Vesuvian Sky]

Persecution of Zoroastrians is the religious persecution inflicted upon the followers of the Zoroastrian faith. The persecution of Zoroastrians occurred throughout its history. The discrimination and harassment began in the form of sparse violence and forced conversions. Muslims are recorded to have destroyed fire temples. Zoroastrians living under Muslim rule were required to pay a tax called Jizya.[1]

Zoroastrian places of worship were desecrated, shrines were destroyed and Mosques built in their place. Many libraries were burned and much cultural heritage was lost. Gradually there were increased number of laws regulating Zoroastrian behavior, limiting their ability to participate in society. Over time, persecution of Zoroastrians became more common and widespread, and the number of believers decreased significantly.[1]

Many converted, some superficially, to escape the systematic abuse and discrimination by the law of the land. Once a Zoroastrian family converted to Islam, the children had to go to an Islamic school and learn Arabic and the teachings of the Quran and these children lost their Zoroastrian identity, although under the Samanids, who were Zoroastrian converts to Islam, the Persian language flourished.

[Wadaad]

Northern Crusades barely play a role in historical consciousness of Germans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonic_Knights_in_popular_culture

You're mistaken...

[Dandelion]

Very shortsighted and selective in your historical perception if you ask me. Not much is to be expected from this thread anyway, as it started dishonestly (but you believe your own lies probably). I don't feel like participating in what I know will be endless drivel of religiously motivated nationalism anyway. By definition people will cherrypick fact and embellish 'their' history.

Note: I'm not a fan of Christianity. But Islam is still a pile of oppressive garbage.

[LightHouse89]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonic_Knights_in_popular_culture

You're mistaken...

Crusading to christians [mostly catholics] was seen as a holy duty for God...pretty much like jihadism to muslims. But yes it is strange that afew centuries before the Franks exterminated the Saxons and force converted most of the Germanic tribes and later they would do the same to the Balts and other people to the east. Orthodox christians also were targeted because they were seen as heretics [mostly for their belief of being anti Papacy].

[LightHouse89]

My ancestors were forced to leave Spain or convert, under xian rule. When the muslims ruled we were fine it was the golden age

they also murdered many of the christians while they were living under their rule [Moors]....so this may have sparked the Spanish to cleanse their land of foriengers in general. It doesnt shock me. The moors come into europe....this isnt imperialism....centuries later...evil white man is imperialistic. hahahah [I am not laughing at you but the type of people who use one sided arguments with that].

[Wadaad]

My ancestors were forced to leave Spain or convert, under xian rule. When the muslims ruled we were fine it was the golden age

Well the Spanish since apologized and have even offered Spanish citizenship to Sephardic people. Take not of the benefits of living in this golden age of Jewish rule. Ofcourse, the same citizenship offer wasnt given to Muslims.

Also, practicing orthodox Jews respect the fact that Muslims are the vanguards of Abrahamaic 'tawheed' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawhid

Like this Jewish rabbi who is espousing the SAME things I've said in this thread (about Christian decline and envy)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9a6blduFb0

[Yehiel]

they also murdered many of the christians while they were living under their rule [Moors]....so this may have sparked the Spanish to cleanse their land of foriengers in general. It doesnt shock me. The moors come into europe....this isnt imperialism....centuries later...evil white man is imperialistic. hahahah [I am not laughing at you but the type of people who use one sided arguments with that].

Ive learned of it, and no that is not why. It was a huge plan by Ferdinand and Isabella to cleanse Spain of all non believers. Portugal followed because it was a part of a deal with Isabella's daughter being married to someone of royalty in Portugal. That might have fueled it but they planned it out for a while. Isabella was a documented as a Jew hater.

[Yehiel]

Well the Spanish since apologized and have even offered Spanish citizenship to Sephardic people. Take not of the benefits of living in this golden age of Jewish rule. Ofcourse, the same citizenship offer wasnt given to Muslims.

Also, practicing orthodox Jews respect the fact that Muslims are the vanguards of Abrahamaic 'tawheed' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawhid

Like this Jewish rabbi who is espousing the SAME things I've said in this thread (about Christian decline and envy)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9a6blduFb0

I agree Islam is strictly monotheistic.

[Empecinado]

Ive learned of it, and no that is not why. It was a huge plan by Ferdinand and Isabella to cleanse Spain of all non believers. Portugal followed because it was a part of a deal with Isabella's daughter being married to someone of royalty in Portugal. That might have fueled it but they planned it out for a while. Isabella was a documented as a Jew hater.

Most people was Jew hater back then...

[Yehiel]

Most people was Jew hater back then...

Yeah i know, because the church had so much influence

[Vasconcelos]

Well the Spanish since apologized and have even offered Spanish citizenship to Sephardic people. Take not of the benefits of living in this golden age of Jewish rule. Ofcourse, the same citizenship offer wasnt given to Muslims.

Yea, it was a stupid move, no citizenship should be given to anyone.
Just goes on to show how numb dicked politicians are today.

[Bamse]

Historically Islam have been more tolerant than Christianity. Some of you have trouble admitting it because it doesn't fit your ideology to do so.

[Yehiel]

Historically Islam have been more tolerant than Christianity. Some of you have trouble admitting it because it doesn't fit your ideology to do so.

I think its hard to believe when you look at Islam today, so people who don't know much about history, think its propaganda or something

[Insuperable]

Yeah i know, because the church had so much influence

Either that and the fact Jews sided with Moors for 400 years.

[Wadaad]

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries
US. senate 1791.

I believe the founding fathers would be insulted if they heard how America is referred to being a 'Cristian' country. The present populace maybe predominately Christian but that could very well change in the future and perhaps see Islam flourish in America. In fact, a Christian 'purging' is on going in the military as we speak: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/04/18/Hagel-Grilled-on-Army-Email-Comparing-Christians-with-Racists-and-Terrorists

You see, the military industrial complex's objectives are loftier (in their eyes) than fulfilling some American bigot's crusading spirit. If christianity gets in the way of the bottom line, it will be taken care of, and no christian will do or say anthing. This is how wretched the church is in America...while Islam is flourishing in America and growing:

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/detail/americas-future-belongs-to-islam

look at the fear and dread coming from Christians...and envy and hate of Islam's zeal and power.

[Yehiel]

Either that and the fact Jews sided with Moors for 400 years.

because we lived better under them regardless

[Vasconcelos]

because we lived better under them regardless

Jews welcomed the invasion of a land it was not their own. What happened to them in Iberia the following centuries was also the consequence of such decision.

[Insuperable]

because we lived better under them regardless

True. My intention wasn't to say they didn't.

[Wadaad]

Either that and the fact Jews sided with Moors for 400 years.Well Jews and Muslims are natural allies, the historic pattern is Christians evict or pogrom on Jews...Jews flee to Islamic lands.

For 1000+ years this was the situation, the only thing thats changing this dynamic is the anti-Abrahamaic so called philosophy called Zionism.

btw, my contempt is only for the 'church' (Catholic church + a few protestant denominations) and those Christians with a crusading spirit in them.

[Yehiel]

Well Jews and Muslims are natural allies, the historic pattern is Christians evict or pogrom on Jews...Jews flee to Islamic lands.

For 1000+ years this was the situation, the only thing thats changing this dynamic is the anti-Abrahamaic so called philosophy called Zionism.

btw, my contempt is only for the 'church' (Catholic church + a few protestant denominations) and those Christians with a crusading spirit in them.

Yes you are correct about how things worked, when we were persecuted most fled to Arab countries. In fact durring the expulsion from Spain the Ottoman Empire laughed at Spain because how how stupid it was to practically throw away people that made there country richer, so the Ottoman's welcomed us and actually made and edict that if anyone was caught denying Jews entry or persecuting them, they would be killed.

[Incal]

Historically Islam have been more tolerant than Christianity.

If you paid the right price that is.

[Insuperable]

Well Jews and Muslims are natural allies, the historic pattern is Christians evict or pogrom on Jews...Jews flee to Islamic lands.

Yeah right. The reason why Jews sided with Moors and not other Muslims:

The Jews saw they had opportunity with them, particularly with the Moors, who were less religious and therefore, more tolerant. In other Moslem countries where the Jews lived, they had to accept the status of dhimmi, second-rate citizen. Their synagogues had to be unobtrusive, and they had to keep a low profile. All that changed with the Moors. Their alliance with the Jews lasted almost 400 years, and by the time the Moors were emigrating from North Africa into Spain, they brought along the Jews not as dhimmis, but as equals.
True allies.

[Wadaad]

Yeah right. The reason why Jews sided with Moors and not other Muslims:

A true allies.

Andalusia was just one place were Muslim and Jews got along...the most judeophile Islamic culture were the Fatimid Shiites ruling Egypt ...and Ottoman Turkey had many Jews in lofty positions in the government and even as viziers. Andalusia was nothing special. During the Crusades Jews wrote to various Muslim leaders to "liberate them from the enemy Franks"

Look at this letter I found from the Crusade period: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?74658-12th-century-Jewish-letter-regarding-the-Crusades-and-fund-raising-for-kidnapped-jews-and-POWs

Basically it is a private discourse among Jews to fundraise some money and post bail for unfortunate Jewish prisoners held hostage by Euro crusaders. Look at the terms they use for the sultan and the muslims, you could sense the solidarity and shared culture, while the Franks are seen as foreigners and evil.

[Lurker]

By the way, what happened to the pre-islamic pagan beliefs of the Arabs? Like Hubal and the other gods that were worshipped at the Qaaba? Did they all got convinced peacefully to convert after the last victory of Muhammad? Isn't that a little too convenient?

Islamic toleration of hinduism was kind of against the rules of Islam. The temporal rulers of the time extended their definition of "people of the book" as far as they could to get to rule over a huge population without them revolting immediately. Nowadays I 'don't think most Muslims consider Hinduists to be "people of the book". Also Islam doesn't tolerate revelations that accept Muhammad but say there are other prophets after him. There are some religions like this in India, Iran, etc and the track record of how Muslims treated them isn't very good.

[Insuperable]

Andalusia was just one place were Muslim and Jews got along...the most judeophile Islamic culture were the Fatimid Shiites ruling Egypt ...and Ottoman Turkey had many Jews in lofty positions in the government and even as viziers. Andalusia was nothing special. During the Crusades Jews wrote to various Muslim leaders to "liberate them from the enemy Franks"

Look at this letter I found from the Crusade period: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?74658-12th-century-Jewish-letter-regarding-the-Crusades-and-fund-raising-for-kidnapped-jews-and-POWs

Basically it is a private discourse among Jews to fundraise some money and post bail for unfortunate Jewish prisoners held hostage by Euro crusaders. Look at the terms they use for the sultan and the muslims, you could sense the solidarity and shared culture, while the Franks are seen as foreigners and evil.

Yeah, Crusades in one part turned into antisemitic persecutions. Church authorities condemned Crusader's actions. Furthermore it is not like Jews and Christians didn't have moments of solidarity.

To cut the story short, I will just copy text:

Following the siege, Jews captured from the Dome of the Rock, along with native Christians, were made to clean the city of the slain.[10]

Protection attempts by Christians in Western Christendom[edit]
Prior to the First Crusade, there are multiple accounts of cooperation between Christians and Jews. Not only were there economical collaboration, with Jews being involved in several industries such as trade, minting, and financial advising, but Jews and Christians were social with one another, even attending each other’s weddings.[13]

As the Crusades began, many Jews were in danger of being killed. There are documented accounts of how as the Crusades spread and reached different towns and cities, and Christians stood up and attempted to protect the neighboring Jews. In the German city of Trier, the local bishop attempted to protect the Jews.[14] The bishop was still new to the city, however, and did not have the political power necessary to band the town together. In the face of the crusader attack, the local bishop abandoned his attempt to save the Jews and told them that “You cannot be saved—your God does not wish to save you now as he did in earlier day. Behold this large crowd that stands before the gateway of the palace”, as well as forcing them to choose between conversion and removal from his palace.[14]

Other German cities had similar experiences, with some towns such as Mainz having the local burghers fight against the incoming crusaders.[14] Another German town, Cologne, hid all the local Jews among their Christian neighbors during the Jewish holiday of Shavuot, spending the remainder of the holiday with the Christian acquaintances.[14]

Anyway, what is the point of this thread? Nabatea recently made something in a similar fashion and you also have discovered a hot water. You know, those Crusaders or the very wrongs which Church done are done in the oppostion of the things they should have stand for. So, I don't know do you have something against Christianity (or Catholicism as you say) as a religion or as an institution of "sinners". However, Pisslamic history is just an extension of actions of your most noble caravan raider Muhammad.

[Fedex]

Well Jews and Muslims are natural allies,

Is 2014 not 1014

[Wadaad]

Is 2014 not 1014

Unfortunately so...2014 Jews eat pepperoni pizzas and write homosexual plots into hollywood movies, etc. Secular Jews (zionists etc) neither respect Secular Arabs (baathists etc) or Islamist Arabs. Atleast rabbinical/orthodox jews respect Islamic monotheism, and even though its 2014 there are still many religious jews who read and follow their Torah

[LightHouse89]

Well Jews and Muslims are natural allies, the historic pattern is Christians evict or pogrom on Jews...Jews flee to Islamic lands.

For 1000+ years this was the situation, the only thing thats changing this dynamic is the anti-Abrahamaic so called philosophy called Zionism.

btw, my contempt is only for the 'church' (Catholic church + a few protestant denominations) and those Christians with a crusading spirit in them.

But the Moors and Ottomans who invaded christian lands before the crusades? I suppose that was justified in the name of Allah and the Islamic religion. I detest these asian religions today either way. Europeans were stupid in a way to adopt them. But I will say some parts of christianity are okay....particularly those that modernized europe.

What would christianity be without the crusading spirit? What would islam be without jihad? How can muslims and Jews be natural allies when the Shias seem to detest them those most....and even adopted a form of National-Socialist government [Like the Baathist parties in Syria and formerly in Iraq]? Islam to me is as fragmented as christianity with their different out looks. There is no one interpretation.

[LightHouse89]

Jews welcomed the invasion of a land it was not their own. What happened to them in Iberia the following centuries was also the consequence of such decision.

If Iberians are your friends never betray them....they will never forgive you....so this could be why the Iberians who were christian before the Moorish invasion, and the majority were still afterwards. The Jews were allowed to live there before the Moorish invasion so by inviting or welcoming the pillaging of Iberia was seen as treason to Iberians so myabe this explians the Inquisition. The same thing happened in France but the Moors never conquered France...but tried to afew times. Charles Martel stomped on their advance and crushed them.

[Empecinado]

Jews helped and welcomed the Moors, people didn't forget this and that's one of the main reason they were hated. Here we have a saying "Moros y marranos son primos hermanos" ( Muslims and Jews are first cousins​​).

[Shah-Jehan]

Come on man, so German officers working independently of Ottoman command perpetrated the Armenian genocide? Sounds like a conspiracy theory or something to me.

And what about what happens under Ataturk? There sure as hell werent any German officers in Turkey then.

The Ottoman military functioned under the supervision and command of German officials: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Liman_von_Sanders (Jewish German)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_Falkenhayn (Prussian German)

The Ottoman caliphs who represented Islam then were merely puppets and under control of the Young Turk party and its' German allies.

[LightHouse89]

Jews helped and welcomed the Moors, people didn't forget this and that's one of the main reason they were hated. Here we have a saying "Moros y marranos son primos hermanos" ( Muslims and Jews are first cousins​​).

And Iberians and Irish/Brits are related LOL. :thumb001: except for linguistics.

[Raven_]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonic_Knights_in_popular_culture

You're mistaken...

I had in mind present, not Nazi Germany. Also, mind that I mentioned Northern Crusades specifically.


I think it was a German historian who said that Grunwald battle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grunwald#Aftermath) is barely mentioned in German schoolbooks.

I've never been exposed to German educational system, so I won't speak on behalf of Germans. Altough, if compared to, say, Russia, another former empire and conqueror, Nuremberg trial should be a good explanation as to why territorical pretensions tend to be remembered faintly.

Anyway, whatever the reasons are, Northern Crusades are not as important in Germany as it is here. The period of Northern Crusades is one of the key stories in the resistance narrative, that is, the most important historical narrative of our nation.

[Yaroslav]

That's a sign that Islam is false. Logic dictates that the truth has no tolerance for falsehood.

[Graham]

Christianity was mainly adopted here with the written education that could be offered. You even have stones that are half Celtic-Christian.

[Vasconcelos]

Christianity was mainly adopted here with the written education that could be offered. You even have stones that are half Celtic-Christian.

Christianity did absorb a lot of pagan stuff during it's early days in Europe to help the assimilation.

[Wadaad]

Christianity was mainly adopted here with the written education that could be offered. You even have stones that are half Celtic-Christian.
yeah like Christmas, Halloween etc...thsese are Celto-paganic fusions with Christianiy.

[Wadaad]

That's a sign that Islam is false. Logic dictates that the truth has no tolerance for falsehood.

Just from you profile I ca tell you envy and fear the mujahid

[Yaroslav]

Just from you profile I ca tell you envy and fear the mujahid

I envy their zeal, yes, but not their cause.

[Graham]

Though we did burn a lot of suspect witches. :P

[Empecinado]

Crusading is a Christian adaptation of Yihad I think.

[Insuperable]

The Ottoman military functioned under the supervision and command of German officials: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Liman_von_Sanders (Jewish German)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_Falkenhayn (Prussian German)

The Ottoman caliphs who represented Islam then were merely puppets and under control of the Young Turk party and its' German allies.

Don't try to put blame on Germans! German officers were given by Turkish authorites a command of a quarter of Ottoman army.

Deportation and genocide was planned by Turkish Committee of Union and Progress and Young Turks as noted by von Sanders, one of those who got an approval from Turkish ministries to make it happen, who later rejected a deportation order for the Armenians and Greeks of Smyrna and Constantinopole.


Only the Armenians of Constantinople and Smyrna are relatively saved because of presence of diplomatic representatives and the intervention of the German general Liman von Sanders (in Smyrna)
http://www.memo.fr/en/article.aspx?ID=MOD_OTT_005


He was singularly unsuccessful in his attempts to prevent the Armenian massacres or to persuade War Minister Enver Pasha to cease military operations in the Caucasus in 1916.
http://www.firstworldwar.com/bio/liman.htm


As to Smyrna, only forceful intervention of German General Liman Von Sanders, the regional military commander, stopped the completion of the deportation of that major mercantile harbor city's Armenian population. That intervention was triggered by the dispatch of Smyrna's first Armenian deportee convoy as ordered by the province's Turkish governor-general Rahmi. This intervention proved a mere respite, however, as in 1922 the insurgent Kemalists destroyed Smyrna in a holocaust that consumed large segments of the surviving Armenian population, as well.

There is even a theory that Turks wanted to kill Von Sanders:
http://books.google.ba/books?id=NCy21PiWEbIC&pg=PA256&lpg=PA256&dq=von+sanders+mistaking+him&source=bl&ots=HQXBIR8Q_4&sig=_9dnZs-dYuyenKykynSCW3M8eWw&hl=hr&sa=X&ei=psytU5yKAajMygPgx4LICw&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=von%20sanders%20mistaking%20him&f=false


Falkenhayn, to whom at the time was given a command in Palestine with his influence saved Jews of Palesine and Syria who were waiting for the same fate as Armenians.

Regarding Von Falkenhayn:
http://www.dailyalert.org/rss/Mainissues.php?id=31665
http://www.genfamily.org/download/erich_von_falkenhayn.pdf
http://www.israeldailypicture.com/2014/05/chapter-world-war-i-did-german-officer.html

While he was in command in Palestine, he was able to prevent Turkish plans to evict all Jews from
Palestine, especially Jerusalem. As this was meant to occur along the lines of the genocide of the
Armenians, it is fair to say that Falkenhayn prevented the eradication of Jewish settlements in Palestine

And he even using craftiness tried to delay the deportation of Armenians
http://books.google.ba/books?id=V_4rITDiSWgC&pg=PA280&lpg=PA280&dq=falkenhayn+armenian&source=bl&ots=PnhJk5ZbID&sig=2S-rKLlN0b-X8KN0gleCU6B1FmA&hl=hr&sa=X&ei=69OtU8n3AcvjywO_zYG4Dw&ved=0CEUQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=falkenhayn%20armenian&f=false

[Óttar]

Muslims destroyed Hindu-Buddhist Gandhara in Afghanistan, they taxed non-Muslims and the Ottomans didn't allow Christians to build or repair any new churches when they took over. The Ottomans had Manichaeans put to death. Shias in Iran had Bahai followers put to death. All great examples of religious tolerance. Muhammad, with Islam's first significant historical act, destroyed the statues in the Ka'aba, an act of disrespect merely because the Arabs worshiped other gods. Islam was born with an act of extreme religious intolerance.

[legolasbozo]

I know about the German role in the genocide and their later holocaust against the Jews was very much inspired by the Turks. I also know that there was a rather small amount of Armenian rebels in Eastern Anatolia, although I take much of it as genocidal propaganda. The Assyrians weren't looking for anything and they were killed because they were Christians just like the Pontic Greeks and Armenians, while the Kurds (although highly oppressed) were still able to live in Anatolia, I take because they were Muslim. Also the Yezidi Kurds, were faced with great prejudice because of their nonconforming religion.

The genocide of Christian Anatolians is just one example, wasn't a woman in Sudan recently arrested for marrying a Christian? Many Coptic Christians and Arab Christians are having to flee their homeland because of an unlivable amount of prejudice.


All those things happened when ittihad ve terakki got the power. ADDİTionally Varlık vergisi, 7-8 eylül olayları, all those things happened under kemalist regime, and trust me conservative people were being oppressed too. Politically correct, islamist just got the power for 15 years in turkey, not the other way round.

[Wolf Howl]

The nature of monotheistic religions, particularly the Abrahamic variety is oppression and condemnation. If a religion posits that there is only one god it naturally follows that all other gods are false and should be stamped out.

[LightHouse89]

yeah like Christmas, Halloween etc...thsese are Celto-paganic fusions with Christianiy.

Not all Christians celebrate those holidays. The Catholic church turns a blind eye towards Halloween because it is really a Irish/Scottish old pagan belief and practice. Most Christian countries do not celebrate it at all. Some do not celebrate Christmass either. Puritans [hardcore Christians from my area] view Christmass as a pagan holiday and do not celebrate it at all. I have some relatives on my dad's side who practice that sect. Seventh day Adventists are the same. It really depends on the sect of Christianity and their outlook...I do not believe Amish people celebrate it in the way of giving gifts [a pagan practice not Christian]. Orthodox Christians celebrate it differently. Catholics accept Christmass however do not entirely recognize Halloween....and some Catholic Jesuits claim it is paganism and is not associated with Christianity.

However some sects celebrate it as more of a cultural holiday than Christian doctrine. Some entirely reject it because of its association with paganism. African Catholics also practice some pre Christian beliefs.

[LightHouse89]

The nature of monotheistic religions, particularly the Abrahamic variety is oppression and condemnation. If a religion posits that there is only one god it naturally follows that all other gods are false and should be stamped out.

I just view them as lacking truth or reality. I suppose in reality I am agnostic because these religions are really mankind's interpretation. To me Judaism is the only one that has more basis to it....Islam and Christianity to me are two sides of the same coins with books that make little sense. They have the most diverse sects and 'schools of thought' which to me discredits them as being more truthful than the Jewish religion. I don't know I view them as Asian philosophies which are interesting....and I agree with some of their conservative beliefs because they helped civilizations grow and respect them as part of our history but in 2014 I sort of view them as largely useless. Some people do not....but from my observation they seem rather useless today. I believe in intelligent design but do not think some magical God created mankind [which seems absurd].....Ask any Muslim or Christian where heaven is and they will get into a spiritual conversation about what they think it looks like or where it is or pull some scripture out of their ass about what some man wrote 3,000 years ago....it just seems foolish to me. As much as I have tried to take these religions seriously I do not see truth behind them. Especially seeing the majority of man does not follow them at all truthfully.

I like the old pagan stories they said pretty much the same message as God and it is in a way our peoples message maybe from God. Sounds insane but our mythology is ours while the Asian mythologies can be for the Asiatic peoples.

[Dandelion]

Holidays can be secular too indeed. Even if they are mildly synchretic toward Christianity in a way (like Halloween and the thing around the Christmas tree which has pagan origins). Well, Christmas is celebrated on December 25th because it's around the time of the Winter Solstice. That's no coincidence. No person knows at which day Jesus was born anyway and they had to fill in the void Paganism left with one of their most important Feasts.

All basic knowledge anyway. It's humanism above all. Some people don't celebrate Christmas neither and you'd find those among the hardcore Christian and among the San Francisco ultra-hardcore vegan hippies. Two seemly polar opposites in such a way their ends meet again.

[LightHouse89]

Crusading is a Christian adaptation of Yihad I think.

Christians and Muslims have that same belief. If Christians somewhere in the world are being harmed or tortured they [Christians elsewhere] were suppose to or are suppose to Crusade to free their Christian brothers and sisters. The original crusade [frst one] was suppose to protect Christian holy sites and those who visited them. The islamic leaders were not protecting pilgrims in their journeys and allowed the original crusaders to protect the holy sites from raiders..... however it intensified when more arrived and after some famous church was sacked by an angry mob of muslims or jews...I forget.

I find it funny three religions have tremendously impacted this world for good and bad.

[LightHouse89]

Holidays can be secular too indeed. Even if they are mildly synthetic toward Christianity in a way (like Halloween and the thing around the Christmas tree which has pagan origins). Well, Christmas is celebrated on December 25th because it's around the time of the Winter Solstice. That's no coincidence. No person knows at which day Jesus was born anyway and they had to fill in the void Paganism left with one of their most important Feasts.

All basic knowledge anyway. It's humanism above all. Some people don't celebrate Christmas neither and you'd find those among the hardcore Christian and among the San Francisco ultra-hardcore vegan hippies. Two seemly polar opposites in such a way their ends meet again.

Halloween has nothing at all to do with Christianity. Christmass technically does not either. It is just looked upon as the day Christ was born to coincide with an important northern European holiday [from pagan times]. Both to me are cultural and have little to nothing to do with Christianity. Even when I was a practicing Christian I celebrated both of them without realizing it hahaha.

[LightHouse89]

I envy their zeal, yes, but not their cause.

my god your not even really catholic....your an orthodox Christian. :picard1:

[Dandelion]

And to add to that. Halloween isn't a thing here. Yes it has been imported recently in a very consumerist awkward fashion (which I hate). It's Anglo import which people started seeing increasingly more often on imported American television series since the 1990s.
However Christian Holidays like All Saints' Day (to pray for those who are in Heaven) and All Souls' Day (to pray for those who are in Purgatory) are widely known here, even to non-Christians (though atheists don't pray, they remember their lost ones by putting chrysanths on their graves, which is pretty much the same anyway).

[Dandelion]

Halloween has nothing at all to do with Christianity. Christmass technically does not either. It is just looked upon as the day Christ was born to coincide with an important northern European holiday [from pagan times]. Both to me are cultural and have little to nothing to do with Christianity. Even when I was a practicing Christian I celebrated both of them without realizing it hahaha.

Halloween hasn't got jack shit to do with it. All Hallow's, on the other hand.

[LightHouse89]

And to add to that. Halloween isn't a thing here. Yes it has been imported recently in a very consumerist awkward fashion (which I hate). It's Anglo import which people started seeing increasingly more often on imported American television series since the 1990s.
However Christian Holidays like All Saints' Day (to pray for those who are in Heaven) and All Souls' Day (to pray for those who are in Purgatory) are widely known here, even to non-Christians (though atheists don't pray, they remember their lost ones by putting chrysanths on their graves, which is pretty much the same anyway).

It is an Irish/Scottish holiday....Halloween... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samhain.....it was Christianized but certain Christian sects consider it pure paganism.

[LightHouse89]

Halloween hasn't got jack shit to do with it. All Hallow's, on the other hand.

:picard1:

[Dandelion]

:picard1:

Well, a Catholic thing (All Hallows' is another name for All Saints'). Pagan origin or not. Everything has got pagan origins. :p Churches built on foundations of pagan temples an all. Honouring Saints is also a remnant of old pagan polytheism and funnily the drive toward henotheism among pagans in the late Roman era (Sol Invictus worship was popular) was then again a step toward monotheism. Catholicism is very synchretic toward the old pagan beliefs. A reason perhaps why Paganism went in decline over Christianity.
Christians first had to gain power before they they could oppress and root out pagans, but when they did they had many followers already anyway (as in majority or soon-to-be). And it took them about half a century after they gained power before they started persecutions of non-christians.

By the way, Islam being 'tolerant' is also such a political thing in that regard. It was always in the goal of making their own religion grow as the only one in the long term anyway (and let others bleed out). Early centuries of Islam even tolerated intellectuals who turned their backs toward Islam (never condoned them though and only the high elites), but eventually they punished apostasy by death anyway. That took them centuries though.

Today non-muslims are more persecuted in the Islamic world than muslims are in the non-islamic world. Life as a coptic christian in Egypt sucks. Yes, religion is incompatible and thus their possibility to practise their religion limited. But Islam is made to clash with other in order to eventually become more violent. Sadly also that is ingrained in their system.

[LightHouse89]

Well, a Catholic thing. Pagan origin or not. Everything has got pagan origins. :p Churches built in foundations of pagan temples an all. Honouring Saint's is also a remnant of old pagan polytheism and funnily the drive toward henotheism among pagans in the late Roman era (Sol Invictus worship was popular) was also step toward monotheism. A reason perhaps why paganism went in decline over Christianity.
Christians first had to gain power before they they could oppress and root out pagans. And it took them about half a century after they gained power before they started persecutions of non-christians.

By the way, Islam being 'tolerant' is also such a political thing in that regard. It was always in the goal of making their own religion grow as the only one in the long term anyway. Early centuries of Islam even tolerated intellectuals who turned their backs toward Islam (never condoned them though and only the high elites), but eventually they punished apostasy by death anyway. That took them centuries though.

Today non-muslims are more persecuted in the Islamic world than muslims are in the non-islamic world. Yes, religion is incompatible and thus their possibility to practise their religion limited. But Islam is made to clash with other in order to eventually become more violent. Sadly also that is ingrained in their system.

Paganism was still practiced in northern Europe even after Christianity became the official religion of western Europe. Christianity drew the borders of Europe though...or contributed to it. Northern Europeans are very resistant to foreign ideas so they take them and modify them to their own beliefs....the Romans could never fully conquer the psyche of the Northern European.