Feminist Dad Phenomenon

[Maleficent]

Feminist Dad Phenomenon

I believe a major part of this unfortunate 21st-century society is what I'm calling the Feminist Dad Phenomenon. We currently live in a world where fathers are constantly telling their little girls they can grow up to be anything they want(not realistic). Whether conscious or not, they are inadvertently turning their daughters into feminists. It goes to the point that many families think their daughter is a failure if she doesn't do well in university and go on to have a successful career. What happened to the good old days in which a young woman was considered a failure at life if she wasn't married with children by the time she was in her early twenties?! Furthermore, this situation is more likely in families that have one daughter and no sons, or many daughters and no sons, or many daughters and just one son. Throughout history the pressure has always been on the sons to go out into the world and make a name for themselves for the family. Basically I theorize that fathers that have one or no sons end up acting very feminist towards their daughters. In normal families where there is a balance of sons and daughters, the boys are expected to have a career and the girls are expected to get married young. All the career pressure that would have gone to the boys goes to the girls in the fucked up psyche of men with daughters and no sons. There's also many situations out there in which these types of fathers are brainwashing their daughters into not changing their last name when they get married, giving the future children the his surname and not the husbands, and even naming the grandson after him. The only solution is that we need as many young females as possible to rebel against modern society in the most conservative way possible. And lastly, in the thoughts and anger of all the young women out there in this situation, I say this: Hey asshole, it's not my fucking problem you didn't have a son, I'm gonna be an uppity, submissive SAHM whether you like it or not!

[Óttar]

:lmao

[Maleficent]

:lmao

I already know I sound psycho in the post. I was rambling and in a rush when I wrote it because I'm sleepy and it's time for me to call it a night. But I really am passionate about this subject.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

There is some truth to that. There are many factors of course, but you do have a point. Now get some sleep youll never be able to wrapping your head around this kind of stuff all night and will only end up with a headache.

[Pontios]

The world needs real woman like you. This is what brings a woman respect, these traditions values.

I have more respect for a woman like this rather than some girl with diplomas, her own house, and being "self-sufficient."

[Óttar]

Aww. Did you want daddy to lay a smack down on your butt-ocks? I empathize, Malkah. :P

[Longbowman]

I'd never marry someone without a career. I'm proudly a feminist. There's no reason women (and men) can't have families and careers. My mother is both an incredibly important lawyer (I won't reveal her position, as she is easily google-able) and mother to four sons. Frankly having a life partner who stays at home all the time would be boring. Allow people to be who they want to be.

[1stLightHorse]

Good observation about the inadequate sonless fathers. I've noticed it too and it's disgusting.

[Nehellenia]

The world needs real woman like you. This is what brings a woman respect, these traditions values.

I have more respect for a woman like this rather than some girl with diplomas, her own house, and being "self-sufficient."

I worked hard for my diplomas :P but own house... in Australia.. maybe if i was a millionaire xD

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

The mainstreaming of the feminist movement began in the 1960s. This was before fathers could "brainwash" their daughters into being more head strong considering the cultural environment of the time. My mother isn't a feminist but she has always told me to look for a bride who is educated and works. She would be disappointed if I married a woman who chose to be a house wife and she would think I was stupid for having more than two children (actually, she says one is enough). She didn't grow up in a feminist culture. She's practical minded: if both the husband and wife work, there is more income. More income means more options. If you have only one or two children, you can provide better for them. You can give them certain advantages that you wouldn't be able if you had more children. You might be able to afford piano lessons for two children but not three, for example.

[Melina]

I don't care much what women want. The problem I have is the constant pressure put upon us by society. We are supposed to be both the bread winners and mothers. It just won't happen with me at least. If I chose to have a career then I won't have children. That simple. My third cousin from my father's side told me when I was 17 years old when I was going to give grandchildren to my dad. Telling me he was getting old. I wanted to choke the bitch but I stayed quiet and smiled. Don't fucking tell me I "need" to give grandchildren to my dad and at the same time pressure me to get a career.

[Tacitus]

I don't know, I think getting married too young (especially for women) is a dangerous thing. Two of my dad's sisters married young (18 and 21 respectively) and ended up in terrible, abusive marriages ending up in divorce. Better to get married later when you've gotten yourself in order first.

[Oneeye]

So I take it that OP has no brothers...

[Maleficent]

I don't care much what women want. The problem I have is the constant pressure put upon us by society. We are supposed to be both the bread winners and mothers. It just won't happen with me at least. If I chose to have a career then I won't have children. That simple. My third cousin from my father's side told me when I was 17 years old when I was going to give grandchildren to my dad. Telling me he was getting old. I wanted to choke the bitch but I stayed quiet and smiled. Don't fucking tell me I "need" to give grandchildren to my dad and at the same time pressure me to get a career.
Good post. Combine upper class families that come from conservative cultures with this 21st century world and you end up with daughters and granddaughters who are expected to have a college degree AND get married and have children. It's kind of a mindfuck to the mindset of modern-day traditional woman, to say the least.

[Farah]

What happened to the good old days in which a young woman was considered a failure at life if she wasn't married with children by the time she was in her early twenties?!

What! How is that the good old days!

Marriage and children is beautiful but a woman is not doomed or a failure if she doesn't have either. Education and self-reliance is precious, for both genders.

[Oneeye]

This doesn't take into account of the psychological needs of the children to stand out from one another.

Siblings often chose different ways to gain attention and/or approval from their parents. It's not far fetched that a daughter would either consciously or subconsciously want to please her father by being interested in the same things that he is.


For example, I have two daughters. Maybe I'll have a son someday, but currently I do not. My younger daughter is very bubbly: likes coloring and all things pink and princess related. My older daughter, on the hand, is more into climbing trees, catching bugs, and reading. She was on the Track & Field team at her school last year. Want to know her favorite event? Shot put. The boys and girls scores are separate from each other... she consistently got first place for her age division. Even if both genders were together, she still would of gotten first place. None of the boys' even got within a foot of her distance. She's also a straight A student. And about a month ago, as I was walking her to her bus stop, she asked me to take her hunting with me sometime. I told her when she is a little older. :D She is very much a daddy's girl, and there was no pressure for her to ever be such.

I'm proud of both of them.



I don't know if you have a boyfriend or fiancée, fb, or whatever, Maleficent, but if you are wanting to meet a man who can provide well enough for you to be a homemaker, then I recommend going to college... A lot of women seem to be there just for a degree in MRS anyways.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

What! How is that the good old days!

Marriage and children is beautiful but a woman is not doomed or a failure if she doesn't have either. Education and self-reliance is precious, for both genders.

Indeed. Women in battered shelters aren't typically women with job skills. If the woman doesn't have much job experience she puts herself in a difficult position if her husband is abusive. She can't just say, "well fuck you I'm gone." She has very little ability to put food on the table and pay rent. At best she can go to family but there is the possibility she'll wear out her welcome, which is a given if she brings kids along. I'm sure it's bad enough having your own children irritating you. Having a sibling's or sister-in-law's kids around constantly will only create tension.

[Harley]

I was married young- was kind of browbeaten into marrying young. Four years into that marriage, I started doubting the validity of being in such a relationship and the mental and emotional pain of being coupled with someone who was a complete jerk. Two years later, I finally left, with a toddler in tow, back to my parents' home, and decided to work and go to school full time. I've been doing this for two years now.

Man, I love summer breaks lol.

Aside from that, as a single parent to my child, I will teach her that she should be solid in whatever she decides to do. If she wants to be a homemaker and/or mother when she grows up, kudos to her. If she wants to pursue a career, that's great too.

What is important for any parent to teach their child is how not to half ass their goals and to be realistic about what it is they want to do. I will also not tell her that love equates marriage. I loved her father, but when it came to marriage, he was not a good partner. I personally feel it was infinitely better that she have two happy parents that are focused on loving her than two miserable people that are always fighting around her.

Mother/father is an important job. Yesterday, I just watched a video where kids were booty dancing in an aisle at the store in another topic at the Troll Carnival and was just mind blown at the idiocy and seemingly lack of values that allows kids to do these kinds of things with no common sense.

Helping cultivate an individual's desire and also providing them with realistic insight to succeed in what they choose to do are important endeavors for me as a parent and as an individual seeking personal growth.

[Maleficent]

So I take it that OP has no brothers...

I used to be selfish and think I was the only one like me, but then I really looked around myself and opened my eyes to the fact that there are all kinds of situations in correlation to my theory.

[Herr Abubu]

The way I see it, nothing's going to get better before they get worse now. That's why I am ecstatic every time I see the economy of the West failing (data worsening and revisioning of the data, i.e., falsification). A traditional way of life is very hard to live in these times.

[Raven_]

Not everyone is capable to combine career and taking care of children. However, in most cases one earner is simply not enough depending on where you live. If you are likely going to work, then low paid manual job is not desirable. Obviously.

Speaking of history, earning and child care for the most time were combined. 50s type of American wife whose responsibilities are limited to house chores and child care only is not a universal model. In agricultural and hunter-gatherer societies women had many other responsibilities besides child care. However, since they worked near work / at home, children were around. Besides, large families where several generations lived under the same roof meant a mother was not the only person able to look after her children.

What happened to the good old days in which a young woman was considered a failure at life if she wasn't married with children by the time she was in her early twenties

You are exaggerating here. Late 20s suits your description better.

[Longbowman]

Historically, factory and other jobs were almost exclusively reserved for women until the 1850s. Just so you know. Being a housewife was a luxury only the rich could afford.

[Herr Abubu]

Historically, factory and other jobs were almost exclusively reserved for women until the 1850s. Just so you know. Being a housewife was a luxury only the rich could afford.

And children (http://www2.needham.k12.ma.us/nhs/cur/Baker_00/2002_p7/ak_p7/workforce.jpg). Before the Industrial Age, however, housework was the norm for women.

The problem with this is that wages declined because of it. The reason factory owners hired women (and children) is because they could pay them lower wages than men would accept. Similarly, immigration tends to lower wage costs because immigrants are content with less.

[cally]

I have the pressure of accomplishing both: degree/career & marriage/children.

[Herr Abubu]

I have the pressure of accomplishing both: degree/career & marriage/children.

The latter is clearly the better choice, depending on who you marry. Most degrees are going to be worthless soon enough and "careers" will be seen for the empty drudgery that they truly are, and hardly sustainable either. Depending on the degree you take (hopefully not anything in the humanities or the social sciences), you will just end up with preposterous amounts of debt with no real value in return. How many men would want to pay off the debts of somebody else? I know I wouldn't. And careers and marriage with children are rarely fully compatible.

[Minesweeper]

In a traditional society, it was up to mother to pass the traditional values to her children, father was to busy for that. But knowing how influential fathers can be on their daughters in younger age, perhaps they should be the leaders of that revolution, as you call it Maleficient. ;)

[cally]

The latter is clearly the better choice, depending on who you marry. Most degrees are going to be worthless soon enough and "careers" will be seen for the empty drudgery that they truly are, and hardly sustainable either. Depending on the degree you take (hopefully not anything in the humanities or the social sciences), you will just end up with preposterous amounts of debt with no real value in return. How many men would want to pay off the debts of somebody else? I know I wouldn't. And careers and marriage with children are rarely fully compatible.

I am studying Pharmacy so hopefully it should be ok :) I don't see a problem with accomplishing both. It's good motivation for your children and it's better for our mental well-being if we keep our minds occupied and stimulated.

[LightHouse89]

no real man is a feminist.....nor are real men stay at home dads. I have a relative who does that and we call him 'house wife'.... LOL

[LightHouse89]

I have the pressure of accomplishing both: degree/career & marriage/children.

you could do both. If they paid men good wages women wouldnt have to work as the cost of living is higher and women can no longer stay at home ad raise children on most men's wages. This is part of why most white couples dont even have children here and the third world brown people out number us now in our own country. We have this ethic to never leech off the system and will kill ourselves....now I do not really care much because every passing week the government and private sector here is more and more our enemy and something we should take advantage of like these third world parasites.

I face the reality we will not have the life styles of our parents and the middle class is a disappearing class in the west. We wont have the life styles they had.

[Herr Abubu]

I am studying Pharmacy so hopefully it should be ok :) I don't see a problem with accomplishing both. It's good motivation for your children and it's better for our mental well-being if we keep our minds occupied and stimulated.

Pharmacy is a good degree. The problem is that women who can perfectly balance the two are extremely rare, if existent at all, and that it always means less intimacy and socialization of the children. Children don't get that in kindergartens and day cares. There are plenty other (better) ways to stimulate and occupy your mind. Judging by the women I have talked to, being a housewife and a mother is more fulfilling than having a career.

[oh-nahhh]

So hard to be a girl. (So nice to be a boy.)

[Herr Abubu]

you could do both. If they paid men good wages women wouldnt have to work as the cost of living is higher and women can no longer stay at home ad raise children on most men's wages. This is part of why most white couples dont even have children here and the third world brown people out number us now in our own country. We have this ethic to never leech off the system and will kill ourselves....now I do not really care much because every passing week the government and private sector here is more and more our enemy and something we should take advantage of like these third world parasites.

I face the reality we will not have the life styles of our parents and the middle class is a disappearing class in the west. We wont have the life styles they had.

The inclusion of women in the workforce and immigrants lower wages, so that they [women] do both is a reason why families can afford less. Not to mention how much is spent on taxes to keep women in the workforce and how many resources are wasted on affirmative action. You either eat the cake or have it, not both.


Pharmacy is a good degree. The problem is that women who can perfectly balance the two are extremely rare, if existent at all, and that it always means less intimacy and socialization of the children. Children don't get that in kindergartens and day cares. There are plenty other (better) ways to stimulate and occupy your mind. Judging by the women I have talked to, being a housewife and a mother is more fulfilling than having a career.

To take an example to illustrate the importance (and the superiority) of a traditional family: homeschooled children perform better educationally than private and publically schooled ildren and are more content with themselves and their education.

[Dandelion]

I am studying Pharmacy so hopefully it should be ok :)

And for some reason Pharmacy is a female-dominated science. :)

[DarkSecret]

I'd never marry someone without a career. I'm proudly a feminist. There's no reason women (and men) can't have families and careers. My mother is both an incredibly important lawyer (I won't reveal her position, as she is easily google-able) and mother to four sons. Frankly having a life partner who stays at home all the time would be boring. Allow people to be who they want to be.

THIS...

[LightHouse89]

The inclusion of women in the workforce and immigrants lower wages, so that they [women] do both is a reason why families can afford less. Not to mention how much is spent on taxes to keep women in the workforce and how many resources are wasted on affirmative action. You either eat the cake or have it, not both.



To take an example to illustrate the importance (and the superiority) of a traditional family: homeschooled children perform better educationally than private and publically schooled ildren and are more content with themselves and their education.

Well said. I was turned down by the fire department actually for not being black or having a vagina. I had the qualifications to get in as a non paid fire fighter [something most have to do in my area before getting hired] but was told too many whtie straight males for us ot hire. Ever since I said I will work in the trade field and fuck the system when I can....I do it alot actually. The IRS does not strike hard down on small business owners which allows us to have more money at the end of every week. I figure I am better off as my own boss.

[Dandelion]

Speaking about gender roles and jobs. In the Anglo-Saxon world the profession of nurse is associated with a typical role and I think the word 'nurse' has anything to do with it. In my language we call the profession 'verpleger'/'verpleegster' (which translates as 'caretaker') and more males practice it in our culture (though still more women than men of course). Backbreaking work by the way.

[LightHouse89]

Speaking about gender roles and jobs. In the Anglo-Saxon world the profession of nurse is associated with a typical role and I think the word 'nurse' has anything to do with it. In my language we call the profession 'verpleger'/'verpleegster' (which translates as 'caretaker') and more males practice it in our culture (though still more women than men of course). Backbreaking work by the way.

In America traditionally women do that but now since recently more men do that work and now traditional jobs such as police or fire department are given to women....our traditionally soceity is gone out the window...I do not really care though as America is sinking either way. Thats strange though that where you live traditionally men worked that job.

[Dandelion]

In America traditionally women do that but now since recently more men do that work and now traditional jobs such as police or fire department are given to women....our traditionally soceity is gone out the window...I do not really care though as America is sinking either way. Thats strange though that where you live traditionally men worked that job.

I'm saying that it has always been female-dominated, even here. It's just I can't think of a time when it was a taboo for men to work that job. Our language has a 'male' word for the profession where the English language limits it to 'nurse' (describing a female act). Don't know about percentages. I just read 8% is male in nursing in the US which surprises me.

[LightHouse89]

I'm saying that it has always been female-dominated, even here. It's just I can't think of a time when it was a taboo for men to work that job. Our language has a 'male' word for the profession where the English language limits it to 'nurse' (describing a female act). Don't know about percentages. I just read 8% is male in nursing in the US which surprises me.

women are less likely to be hired....women are more likely to be hired for traditional male jobs....that is how the government is trying to model our society...gender neutral like Sweden :rolleyes: no way if I was a fire man would I take orders from a woman.

[de Burgh II]

I can respect that entirely. A person should be entitled to lead whatever lifestyle they want regardless of what others have to say about nor should they be pressured into doing something unjustifiably as well. At the same time we have to realize were living in a progressing society were we have to make decisions for ourselves sometimes when the situation presents itself. As well as weigh the pros and cons of how many kids to have because it can be quite costly if a person hasn't situated themselves financially-wise. Sure it takes a little in the long run, but I'm sure its worth it in the end because you can look back on it and say you did this in that regard. I'm the kind of person that believes a person should experience life as an individual and let their experiences shape them for the better in the world around us. The only person in life who knows how to lead their lives efficiently are the individuals themselves in that regard.

[cally]

Pharmacy is a good degree. The problem is that women who can perfectly balance the two are extremely rare, if existent at all, and that it always means less intimacy and socialization of the children. Children don't get that in kindergartens and day cares. There are plenty other (better) ways to stimulate and occupy your mind. Judging by the women I have talked to, being a housewife and a mother is more fulfilling than having a career.
Well it depends where you live. Where I live this is the norm and children benefit from this by being able to attend the best private schools in the country as both of their parents are generating income. I think this "housewife" role produces extremely needy and dependant children and is quite depressing (for me at least). Children are at school most of the time 9am-3pm. It may be beneficial for other women and that's totally fine.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

Well it depends where you live. Where I live this is the norm and children benefit from this by being able to attend the best private schools in the country as both of their parents are generating income. I think this "housewife" role produces extremely needy and dependant children and is quite depressing (for me at least). It may be beneficial for other women and that's totally fine.

That is actually a very good point, Latchkey children for all intents and purposes from what I have seen do grow into mature, and responsible adults more often than not. I know many adults who at 25-27 still live with their parents. They still behave like they did when they were teenagers, and the majority of them had their mother at home growing up.

[Beit El]

Indeed. Women in battered shelters aren't typically women with job skills. If the woman doesn't have much job experience she puts herself in a difficult position if her husband is abusive. She can't just say, "well fuck you I'm gone." She has very little ability to put food on the table and pay rent. At best she can go to family but there is the possibility she'll wear out her welcome, which is a given if she brings kids along. I'm sure it's bad enough having your own children irritating you. Having a sibling's or sister-in-law's kids around constantly will only create tension.

All the problems you point out with the woman being taken in by family are ironically created by feminism and modern society.

Battered women should be helped and sheltered by family, not by women's shelters, but the strong traditional family ties have been destroyed in part by feminism. The woman can help out her sibling or sister-in-law's housework and if the children aren't spoiled brats like many children are today (due to feminism and women having careers instead of giving the emotional attention small children so badly need) then the tension should be minimal. Besides that it strengthens family ties and gives the children more friends to play with.


I think this "housewife" role produces extremely needy and dependant children and is quite depressing (for me at least).

It has been the exact opposite in my experience.

[Hithaeglir]

Hehe,this article describes my dad perfectly.

[Raven_]

I think in the past domestic violence was viewed as 'a private issue', women simply didn't leave their abusive husbands.

[Herr Abubu]

Well it depends where you live. Where I live this is the norm and children benefit from this by being able to attend the best private schools in the country as both of their parents are generating income. I think this "housewife" role produces extremely needy and dependant children and is quite depressing (for me at least). Children are at school most of the time 9am-3pm. It may be beneficial for other women and that's totally fine.

Perhaps you live in another universe. In Norway most children have two parents working, yet almost every child goes to public schools. Two parents at work doesn't magically bring any unique luxuries of any sort either. I also know for a fact that this is the case in all of the West. Housewives still have a responsibility to correctly socialize their children, but I am willing to bet quite a lot of money that children in traditional homes end up better on average. As for producing needy and independent children; maybe in your universe. Now, I am not in any way saying that you should do as I say, but I am in every way saying that I am right.

[cally]

Perhaps you live in another universe. In Norway most children have two parents working, yet almost every child goes to public schools. Two parents at work doesn't magically bring any luxuries of any sort either. I also know for a fact that this is the case in all of the West. Housewives still have a responsibility to correctly socialize their children, but I am willing to bet quite a lot of money that children in traditional homes end up better on average. As for producing needy and independent children; maybe in your universe. Now, I am not in any way saying that you should do as I say, but I am in every way saying that I am right.

I think the problem you have is with societal attitudes and culture rather than women working. I know plenty of housewives who are present physically but not emotionally for their kids. It doesn't guarantee a stable home. In my universe, children are at school most of the day and husbands at work - what are the women supposed to do at home all day?

[Herr Abubu]

I think in the past domestic violence was viewed as 'a private issue', women simply didn't leave their abusive husbands.

Not at all. Men (often just allegedly) guilty of domestic violence were harshly punished.

"On Saturday night last. Joseph Hines, tinsmith, 34 Cherry street, New York, was killed by some persons unknown. It appears that Hines and his brother came home drunk at 11 o’clock last night. Hines began to beat his wife, when the children cried “murder!” Three young came in from the street on hearing these cries, and seeing what Hines was about, they seized him and gave him a terrible thrashing, leaving him senseless on the floor. He was laid on the bed, but died early on Monday morning. William Meyers, who lives in the vicinity, is charged with being one of the persons who whipped Hines, but he denies the charge. It is a pity that every vile rascal who beats wife could not served in the same manner." ("A Man killed for Beating His Wife." Jeffersonian Republican (Stroudsberg, Pa.), Jan. 27, 1853, p. 2]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BbVvR-BiI30/TqC965dW2yI/AAAAAAAAA5c/HFWzfoJvZjE/s1600/wife-beaters-early-ne-t.bmp

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Zu85ZbXGpKg/Trtfel8vOlI/AAAAAAAABcg/BwrIg2O4GcA/s1600/wife-beater-aug30-1885-color.bmp

[Herr Abubu]

I think the problem you have is with societal attitudes and culture rather than women working. I know plenty of housewives who are present physically but not emotionally for their kids. It doesn't guarantee a stable home. In my universe, children are at school most of the day and husbands at work - what are the women supposed to do at home all day?

No, the problem the world has is social, cultural and (in some cases, while in other cases not) that women work. Of course it is not a guarantee for a stable home, a home never guarantees stability. But if A is better than B you obviously choose A, unless you're brought up in the wretched world of today, that is. There are thousands of things to do, all of them far more interesting than working. I assume you're smart enough to figure out a few of those things on your own. Why do you think women ever bothered staying at home at all?

[CordedWhelp]

I have noticed an increase in a new generation of "ambitious" young, mostly urban, women who have a rather unhealthy obsession with jump-starting their career from day one. They seldom appear content, are constantly stressed, and act like frigid bitches to male peers.

Of course, I am noting an increase in a segment of a demographic. of course this isn't every woman now, yada yada yada...

[cally]

No, the problem the world has is social, cultural and (in some cases, while in other cases not) that women work. Of course it is not a guarantee for a stable home, a home never guarantees stability. But if A is better than B you obviously choose A, unless you're brought up in the wretched world of today, that is. There are thousands of things to do, all of them far more interesting than working. I assume you're smart enough to figure out a few of those things on your own. Why do you think women ever bothered staying at home at all?
So are you saying they shouldn't work at all? Why not a less demanding job or something part time? This is not productive from an economic standpoint. I don't see how being a housewife is so beneficial to conclude that A is "better" than B ? Why blame women for cultural problems? Working women contribute A LOT to society. I think it's ungrateful to say otherwise.

[Raven_]

When I wrote that post I had in mind the general attitude of older women of today and portrayals of women in literature of early 20th c.
Killing an abusive man doesn't sound like a good solution. It puts family in a bad situation financially. Also, abusive men often threaten their spouses. Sorry, but I do not think abusive men in most cases were dealt with.

[Bamse]

Scandinavian women(not all, but at least 90%) are the epitome of selfish feminist women riddled with unrealistic expectations.

It is still the man renovating the house and take care of practical work. The ladies are happy to take a lick a layer of paint or two before strolling down to the cafe and fritter away money on coffee.
It's often the men who deliver and collect the kids to kindergarten / school. However, many also taken over the role of cooking and cleaning at home. And as if thats not enough the ladies will also decide on the men's activities, but shall have full liberty themselves.

And when I ask "What does your girlfriend/wife do at all then?" The answer is usually "no ... not so much really. But that's just the way it is.". This is the result of decades of extreme feminist indoctrination in society.

[Kastrioti1443]

No, the problem the world has is social, cultural and (in some cases, while in other cases not) that women work. Of course it is not a guarantee for a stable home, a home never guarantees stability. But if A is better than B you obviously choose A, unless you're brought up in the wretched world of today, that is. There are thousands of things to do, all of them far more interesting than working. I assume you're smart enough to figure out a few of those things on your own. Why do you think women ever bothered staying at home at all?

Bubu, you know my ideas and what mentality I have, right? So please explain us in details what is your perfect society? Let's take in in the albanian perspective. In your perfect society what should be the position of woman, what should be the position of man and how will this society function economically?

[CordedWhelp]

Scandinavian women(not all, but at least 90%) are the epitome of selfish feminist women riddled with unrealistic expectations.

It is still the man renovating the house and take care of practical work. The ladies are happy to take a lick a layer of paint or two before strolling down to the cafe and fritter away money on coffee.
It's often the men who deliver and collect the kids to kindergarten / school. However, many also taken over the role of cooking and cleaning at home. And as if thats not enough the ladies will also decide on the men's activities, but shall have full liberty themselves.

And when I ask "What does your girlfriend/wife do at all then?" The answer is usually "no ... not so much really. But that's just the way it is.". This is the result of decades of extreme feminist indoctrination in society.

Many will never admit it, but to many it's just about reaping the rewards of the thing without Actually "equalizing" anything.

[Maleficent]

That is actually a very good point, Latchkey children for all intents and purposes from what I have seen do grow into mature, and responsible adults more often than not. I know many adults who at 25-27 still live with their parents. They still behave like they did when they were teenagers, and the majority of them had their mother at home growing up.
What's the whole point of having a single working mother if you don't even get the full latchkey kid experience?! My psycho mom didn't "allow" me to do this in any shape or form.

I hate it when single moms insist that their kid must be in after-school daycare, not allowed to have their own copy of the housekey, no real freedom or independence in any way, etc. It's almost as if the married kids with siblings are allowed more freedom and independence than the others. One of the main reasons I had a bad experience homeschooling myself in high school is my mom would lock me in the house all day while she went to work. Sometimes she didn't come home till late at night, every once in a while she didn't come back after several days. And let's just say this usually coincidentally happened when we hadn't been grocery shopping in a while.

It was all major abuse.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

What's the whole point of having a single working mother if you don't even get the full latchkey kid experience?! My psycho mom didn't "allow" me to do this in any shape or form.

I hate it when single moms insist that their kid must be in after-school daycare, not allowed to have their own copy of the housekey, no real freedom or independence in any way, etc. It's almost as if the married kids with siblings are allowed more freedom and independence than the others. One of the main reasons I had a bad experience homeschooling myself in high school is my mom would lock me in the house all day while she went to work. Sometimes she didn't come home till late at night, every once in a while she didn't come back after several days. And let's just say this usually coincidentally happened when we hadn't been grocery shopping in a while.

It was all major abuse.


That is really pretty horrible... I hope you learned to break out of a window or two.... and I am glad those years are behind you. Childhood can have many bad experiences, and certainly there is no perfect childhood, but the only point of it all is to use even the most negative experience in a positive way, in order to develop a healthy mindset.
The good thing is it is never really too late to work on any psychological scars. Certainly it becomes harder as you age, but you only fail if you give up. I'd say all in all from what I've seen though youve got a pretty good head on your shoulders. :)

[Minesweeper]

Scandinavian women(not all, but at least 90%) are the epitome of selfish feminist women riddled with unrealistic expectations.

It is still the man renovating the house and take care of practical work. The ladies are happy to take a lick a layer of paint or two before strolling down to the cafe and fritter away money on coffee.
It's often the men who deliver and collect the kids to kindergarten / school. However, many also taken over the role of cooking and cleaning at home. And as if thats not enough the ladies will also decide on the men's activities, but shall have full liberty themselves.

And when I ask "What does your girlfriend/wife do at all then?" The answer is usually "no ... not so much really. But that's just the way it is.". This is the result of decades of extreme feminist indoctrination in society.

Who can blame them, they use the opportunity hundreds of generations of women didn't had. Why men are silent and obedient is another question but they won't be forever. We will have serious problems in gender relations in the future.

[Herr Abubu]

So are you saying they shouldn't work at all? Why not a less demanding job or something part time? This is not productive from an economic standpoint. I don't see how being a housewife is so beneficial to conclude that A is "better" than B ? Why blame women for cultural problems? Working women contribute A LOT to society. I think it's ungrateful to say otherwise.

I'm not saying women shouldn't work at all. Part-time work seems to work for Dutch women (and Dutch families). The point is that a woman has to fulfill her womanly duties towards her husband and her children first of all (and vice versa).

As for economics, I don't think you want to get into an economic argument with me. Women do contribute a lot to society, but not in the work force. If anything, they are a net burden outside of the feminine spheres. (Now I wanted to say women do not contribute particularly to the division of labour, but they clearly do as homemakers, just not in what is defined as the workforce.) But I care first of all about the health of society, culture and civilization, and GDP is most definitely not equivalent to any of those. Anything else is Marxist claptrap.


When I wrote that post I had in mind the general attitude of older women of today and portrayals of women in literature of early 20th c.
Killing an abusive man doesn't sound like a good solution. It puts family in a bad situation financially. Also, abusive men often threaten their spouses. Sorry, but I do not think abusive men in most cases were dealt with.

You need to take another look at my previous post.


Scandinavian women(not all, but at least 90%) are the epitome of selfish feminist women riddled with unrealistic expectations.

It is still the man renovating the house and take care of practical work. The ladies are happy to take a lick a layer of paint or two before strolling down to the cafe and fritter away money on coffee.
It's often the men who deliver and collect the kids to kindergarten / school. However, many also taken over the role of cooking and cleaning at home. And as if thats not enough the ladies will also decide on the men's activities, but shall have full liberty themselves.

And when I ask "What does your girlfriend/wife do at all then?" The answer is usually "no ... not so much really. But that's just the way it is.". This is the result of decades of extreme feminist indoctrination in society.

Thankfully it seems to be changing. Most of my [Norwegian] girl friends are quite "conservative" in most if not all respects. From my experience and the experience of many others I have spoken to, women will do as much as the can get away with, like children—but if you take the reins, they will submit to you and even be thankful for it.


Bubu, you know my ideas and what mentality I have, right? So please explain us in details what is your perfect society? Let's take in in the albanian perspective. In your perfect society what should be the position of woman, what should be the position of man and how will this society function economically?

Society would be based on basically reactionary, traditional values and all the corollaries. Society will make man the end of the economy instead of making man the means of the economy. You know, I'm more interested in the conditions of man than the growth in GDP. Reactionary, traditionalist and extreme rightist should give you enough of an idea; can't really be bothered to describe it in detail at the moment.

[Herr Abubu]

What's the whole point of having a single working mother if you don't even get the full latchkey kid experience?! My psycho mom didn't "allow" me to do this in any shape or form.

I hate it when single moms insist that their kid must be in after-school daycare, not allowed to have their own copy of the housekey, no real freedom or independence in any way, etc. It's almost as if the married kids with siblings are allowed more freedom and independence than the others. One of the main reasons I had a bad experience homeschooling myself in high school is my mom would lock me in the house all day while she went to work. Sometimes she didn't come home till late at night, every once in a while she didn't come back after several days. And let's just say this usually coincidentally happened when we hadn't been grocery shopping in a while.

It was all major abuse.

Being raised by a single mom is one of the most horrible abuses a child can suffer.

Speaking of latchkey children (ignore the positive statements, it is mere conjecture): "The effects of being a latchkey child differ with age. Loneliness, boredom and fear are most common for those younger than 10 years of age. In the early teens, there is a greater susceptibility to peer pressure, potentially resulting in such behaviors as alcohol abuse, drug abuse, sexual promiscuity and smoking.[4][5] The behaviors might stem from "unspent energy, peer pressure to misbehave, or hostility because of the lack of appropriate adult attention".[6] However, some children can exude other positive effects. An early development of self reliance, adaptation to difficult situations, and a desire to contribute to a visible need in the household.

Socioeconomic status and length of time left alone can bring forth other negative effects. In one study, middle school students left home alone for more than three hours a day reported higher levels of behavioral problems, higher rates of depression and lower levels of self-esteem than other students.[7]"

[Harley]

My family is very close. I'm the oldest of six children raised by a housewife. I was encouraged to be a housewife myself. Did this for 6-7 years, but left because the provider wasn't providing and was abusive.

As a single mother, I do have the luck of being able to have my mother or my sisters(who work)take care of my kid when I am at work and at school. I try very hard to stick to a time management log in order to make sure that I'm able to take care of business as well as spend quality time with my girl.

I'm currently seeking a Bachelor's degree in Accounting. Come rain or shine, I will do what it takes to make sure that I will never be toppled over again by the incessant jackassery of another individual who pretends to have my kid's well being in mind. I'm currently employed as an assistant to a real estate agent/ property manager. Fortunately for me, my natural administrative skills and customer service experience have carried me through these years.

I have decided that if I ever were to have the luck to be able to become a housewife again, it would not be that, but to be able to work from home. I enjoy being with my kid and I also enjoy making sure she has what she needs.

My parents kind of taught me to be codependent on a man in order to get ahead in life and to be completely subservient, even if his will is not good will for the children. I felt alienated the most when I had to put all of my hopes and desires into an untrustworthy person.

When I returned home, I told my dad that I was going to stay and build from the bottom up by seeking an education. He told me to return back to my husband lol. I said no and my mom backed me up. I compromised by keeping a ft job, affording my own bills and saving until I was able to move out, and ft schooling.

It's almost impossible to generalize parenting to the same standard because not every situation will be the same.

At this point in my life, I am wishing I find a reliable partner that will be more dependable than I want to be. I'm not holding my breath. It's not to cast shade on good men, because I believe there are good men out there, but on knowing how to sort wheat from chaff, and not rushing self to hang off someone else's successes.

[Speed Air Man]

When I returned home, I told my dad that I was going to stay and build from the bottom up by seeking an education. He told me to return back to my husband lol. I said no and my mom backed me up. I compromised by keeping a ft job, affording my own bills and saving until I was able to move out, and ft schooling.



Sweetheart, I am so sorry that happened to you. I can only imagine how bad it is in the Samoan community.

No father where I am from would ever say something like that to his daughter. What kind of "man" would say that to a face like yours? Most women would feel privileged to be daughters in my community, and I'm proud to say it's because we are feminist dads.

[rhiannon]

I still can remember a time when options for women were much more limited. Didn't like it, either.

The boys and girls of today can grow up to become whatever they wish as long as they put the hard work in necessary to achieve the dream.

I prefer it this way, thank you.

Nothing wrong with fathers telling their daughters the same things they tell their sons.

Gender identities and roles sort themselves out naturally, anyway. They really aren't just "taught"

[Speed Air Man]

I still can remember a time when options for women were much more limited. Didn't like it, either.


No woman likes it. No man lies it either, unless of course he is a micropenis dork who can't handle a real woman. "Boy" would be a better word.

I get sick when I hear all these Men's Rights types arguing that anything but a harem in their basement is "feminism". They sound to me like a bunch of child molesters.

[FeederOfRavens]

No woman likes it. No man lies it either, unless of course he is a micropenis dork who can't handle a real woman. "Boy" would be a better word.

I get sick when I hear all these Men's Rights types arguing that anything but a harem in their basement is "feminism". They sound to me like a bunch of child molesters.

What are you going on aboot?

[Virtuous]

That's the problem with today's society. Low minimum wages, both parents forced to work, children are basically brought up by the media with barely any attention from the parents.

[Speed Air Man]

That's the problem with today's society. Low minimum wages, both parents forced to work, children are basically brought up by the media with barely any attention from the parents.

Yeah. It's not really about wages.

The family could survive just fine on five dollars/hour if it would just give up its love of gym memberships, home ownership and expensive Christmas presents.

We're not feminists because it's an economic necessity. We're feminists because it's drrty. We wanna be ~drrty~

[Melina]

Yeah. It's not really about wages.

The family could survive just fine on five dollars/hour if it would just give up its love of gym memberships, home ownership and expensive Christmas presents.

We're not feminists because it's an economic necessity. We're feminists because it's drrty. We wanna be ~drrty~

Where do you live? There is no way a family can live with $8/hour let alone $5 dollars. With gas prices going as high as $4 a gallon and food prices going up there is no way. Unless of course they live off charity and government benefits and walk toward their job.

[DarkSecret]

This explains everything:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv_jwegGtvY

[FeederOfRavens]

This explains everything:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv_jwegGtvY

All that Girl power bullshit. It's fucking degenerate.

[Rudel]

Allow people to be who they want to be.
It might be out of your world view, but there are women who actually want to be stay-at-home mothers.
I'd be perfectly fine with it, provided my own income would suffice, which is obviously hard these days with the society's structure made to put women at work.

[Longbowman]

It might be out of your world view, but there are women who actually want to be stay-at-home mothers.
I'd be perfectly fine with it, provided my own income would suffice, which is obviously hard these days with the society's structure made to put women at work.

Obviously there are Rudel, but OP was suggesting that all women had to agree with her. I never suggested people should be forced to do anything. The most I said was I wouldn't marry a stay-at-home mum, which is true.

[Catkin]

Being raised by a single mom is one of the most horrible abuses a child can suffer.

Ridiculous over-generalised aspersion.


Speaking of latchkey children (ignore the positive statements, it is mere conjecture): "The effects of being a latchkey child differ with age. Loneliness, boredom and fear are most common for those younger than 10 years of age. In the early teens, there is a greater susceptibility to peer pressure, potentially resulting in such behaviors as alcohol abuse, drug abuse, sexual promiscuity and smoking.[4][5] The behaviors might stem from "unspent energy, peer pressure to misbehave, or hostility because of the lack of appropriate adult attention".[6] However, some children can exude other positive effects. An early development of self reliance, adaptation to difficult situations, and a desire to contribute to a visible need in the household.

Socioeconomic status and length of time left alone can bring forth other negative effects. In one study, middle school students left home alone for more than three hours a day reported higher levels of behavioral problems, higher rates of depression and lower levels of self-esteem than other students.[7]"

You can't ignore the potential positives. This is indeed the case in some children that grow up in such circumstances. Clearly not all children that grow up in single parent families and don't have a parent at home when they return from school end up turning into delinquents. It makes sense that it could foster early development of a sense of responsibility. It is the quality of the parent-child interaction that is important, not necessarily the quantity.

[Graham]

Ridiculous over-generalised aspersion.


Agreed. Quality rather than quantity. Know plenty of fuck-ups with two parents together.

[Catkin]

Feminist Dad Phenomenon

I believe a major part of this unfortunate 21st-century society is what I'm calling the Feminist Dad Phenomenon. We currently live in a world where fathers are constantly telling their little girls they can grow up to be anything they want(not realistic). Whether conscious or not, they are inadvertently turning their daughters into feminists. It goes to the point that many families think their daughter is a failure if she doesn't do well in university and go on to have a successful career. What happened to the good old days in which a young woman was considered a failure at life if she wasn't married with children by the time she was in her early twenties?! Furthermore, this situation is more likely in families that have one daughter and no sons, or many daughters and no sons, or many daughters and just one son. Throughout history the pressure has always been on the sons to go out into the world and make a name for themselves for the family. Basically I theorize that fathers that have one or no sons end up acting very feminist towards their daughters. In normal families where there is a balance of sons and daughters, the boys are expected to have a career and the girls are expected to get married young. All the career pressure that would have gone to the boys goes to the girls in the fucked up psyche of men with daughters and no sons. There's also many situations out there in which these types of fathers are brainwashing their daughters into not changing their last name when they get married, giving the future children the his surname and not the husbands, and even naming the grandson after him. The only solution is that we need as many young females as possible to rebel against modern society in the most conservative way possible. And lastly, in the thoughts and anger of all the young women out there in this situation, I say this: Hey asshole, it's not my fucking problem you didn't have a son, I'm gonna be an uppity, submissive SAHM whether you like it or not!

I do think it is the case that fathers who only have a daughter sometimes place pressure on the girl to fill the gaps that the imaginary son would have filled; my dad often bought me stereotypically male presents for Christmas. But I think some pressure comes with being an only-child in general. You are the only one who can achieve so all the focus is on you to do so, whether male or female. My dad dissuaded me from becoming an early childhood teacher 'because it would be a waste of my brains', so I went to uni to study physics instead. I was younger then, not so impressionable now, I just didn't want to disappoint when I know I am all he has. It wasn't completely sacrificial anyway, I also liked physics.

I don't, however, believe that rebelling against this and defiantly opting to be a stay-at-home mum is necessary nor in many cases sensible. If a woman is smart, ambitious and passionate about something, it would be sort of cutting their nose off to spite their face and a loss to the world for them not to pursue this passion alongside having children, just so they can rebel against societal/familial pressures.

Furthermore, I am all for women staying at home with their pre-school children if that's what they want to do, I would hope to be able to do so myself when they are young. It doesn't mean you can't keep yourself intellectually stimulated. However, unfortunately, having no means to support yourself, especially if you married young and have no qualifications or work experience, leaves you in a very vulnerable position. More men walk out of their marriages now than they did in the past- they may have had as many affairs, but divorce was less of a common option. Women now can more often suddenly find themselves needing to support children alone, through no choice of their own. Perhaps women should have some potential way to support themselves if the worst should occur.

[Graham]

Males are generally shit gift buyer to be fair, especially buying for woman.

My dad once wrote a cheque on Christmas like 15 odd years ago, to my mum. It was world war 3. Haha

[Catkin]

Agreed. Quality rather than quantity. Know plenty of fuck-ups with two parents together.

From when I was about 6 it was just my mum and me. If anything it made me far better behaved because I was very protective of her and wouldn't have wanted to do anything that would make things hard for her or cause her to worry.

[Catkin]

Males are generally shit gift buyer to be fair, especially buying for woman.

My dad once wrote a cheque on Christmas like 15 odd years ago, to my mum. It was world war 3. Haha

xD Bad move. Yes, it's true- I think they were things he'd want to play with himself and couldn't possibly conceive how anyone wouldn't want. I was a bit of a tomboy anyway, so it was fine.