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Gomorra
07-01-2014, 11:14 AM
No. 93 (688), 30 June 2014 © PISM
Editors: Marcin Zaborowski (Editor-in-Chief) . Katarzyna Staniewska (Managing Editor)
Jarosław Ćwiek-Karpowicz . Aleksandra Gawlikowska-Fyk . Artur Gradziuk . Piotr Kościński
Łukasz Kulesa . Roderick Parkes . Patrycja Sasnal . Marcin Terlikowski
Finland Gets a Foot in NATO’s Door
Wojciech Lorenz

Finland’s new prime minister Alexander Stubb wants his country to join NATO. Such a prospect still
seems distant due to negative Finnish public opinion and blatant threats from Russia. Nevertheless,
Finland can move cooperation with NATO to a new level, which will allow it to join the alliance quickly
and have in place the technical abilities to receive substantial military support, when threatened with
the aggression.

Jyrki Katainen, who quit as Finland’s prime minister, was replaced by Alexander Stubb, a former foreign minister and
minister of European affairs and foreign trade, who is known as a staunch supporter of Finland’s accession to NATO.
Since the war between Russia and Georgia in 2008, Stubb has advocated for a national debate on NATO membership,
and after Russia annexed Crimea he stressed that joining NATO should be possible in the next parliamentary term
(2015–2020). Finland has already achieved one of the highest levels of interoperability among NATO partners. In April
2014 it decided to further deepen the cooperation with NATO by signing the agreement, which will better prepare
Finland for receiving military assistance. However, recent opinion polls indicate that 59% of Finns are against joining
NATO, while only 22% would support it. The very suggestion of Finnish membership also triggers a furious reaction
from Russia. In June, Nikolai Makarov, the commander of the Russian armed forces, warned that Finland’s cooperation
with NATO would be a threat to Russia. Siergiej Markov, personal envoy to Russia’s president, Vladimir Putin,
followed this with the suggestion that Finland’s accession could provoke a third world war.

The Finnish Security Environment. Finland, with a population of 5.5 million, and one of the lowest population
densities in Europe, shares a 1,340-kilometre border with Russia. It gained independence from Russia in 1917, and,
during the Cold War, was neutral, which gave Russia de facto influence on Finnish foreign policy (Finlandisation). After
the collapse of the Soviet Union Finland joined EU, but decided to keep out of military alliances.

Nevertheless, Russia does not exclude that, in a broader confrontation with the West, Finland would also constitute
a threat. In 2009, Russia and Belarus conducted military exercises Ladoga, which apparently included the scenario of
a pre-emptive attack against Finland to block it from rendering help to Estonia in the event of a conflict between
Russia and NATO. In 2010, Russia formed the Western Military District by consolidating the Leningrad and Moscow
Districts, which resulted in the shift of major forces and commands from Central Europe to the north-west, in the
vicinity of the Finnish border. Consequently, new military units have been deployed in Kaliningrad Oblast, the St.
Petersburg area and on the Kola peninsula, which hosts the headquarters of the Russian Baltic Fleet. The presence of
Iskander-M tactical ballistic missiles close to St. Petersburg is potentially dangerous for Finland, as the missiles can
carry a payload of nuclear warheads of five to 50 kilotons and can reach the greater part of Finnish territory.
Deployment of S400 anti-aircraft systems in Kaliningrad, which can block aerial operations in the Baltic Sea region,
also have a negative influence on Finland’s security.

Finland Closer to NATO. Finnish Security and Defence Policy, published in 2012, states that Finland does not
belong to any military alliance, but cooperates closely with NATO and reserves itself right to join the alliance.
However, it is not going to seek membership during this term of the parliament, which ends in 2015. Being outside
NATO and its Article 5 guarantees, Finland tries to strengthen its security through its membership of the EU, and
by promoting the credibility of European Common Security and Defence Policy (CSDP). Additionally, it develops
cooperation with Nordic partners (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden) in the NORDEFCO framework,
which focuses operationally on air force, navy and artillery exercises, and the exchange of information, in order
to better control airspace and sea routes. On 5 April 2011, the Nordic States signed the Nordic Declaration of 2
Solidarity, which is a political declaration that countries will help each other during peacetime when faced with serious
crisis.

Finnish defence policy is primarily based on the credibility of its territorial defence, which is supported by 500 tanks
(including 400 in storage), 750 pieces of artillery (including 100 self-propelled guns) and 600 mortars. Sixty-three
F18 Hornet multipurpose combat aircraft help control airspace, while eight missile boats, three minelayers and 13
minesweepers watch over sea routes. During peacetime, the Finnish military has 30,000 personnel at its disposal,
whereas during war it is able to mobilise an additional 200,000 reservists. For the last 10 years, defence expenditures
amounted on average to 1.4% GDP. In 2014 it fell to 1.36% ($2.7 billion, which was $120 million less than a year
earlier). Finnish politicians gave assurances that cuts in defence spending would not affect the credibility of territorial
defence, which will be maintained by better training, arms and equipment for the armed forces, as well as investments
limiting the ability of a surprise attack and the possibility of a potential aggressor dominating Finnish air space.
Finland has already made some decisions to improve its defence and deterrence capabilities. Domestically made and
Russian air defence systems and radars were replaced with new equipment, which offers interoperability with
Western partners. Finland is the first country in Europe to have been granted permission by the U.S. to buy stand-off
cruise missiles (AGM 158 JASSM) for its F18 aircraft fleet. Plans also include modernising 22 M270 Multiple Launch
Rocket Systems (MLRS) and equipping them with the longer range missiles.

During the last decade, Finland used the membership Partnership for Peace (PfP) programme to achieve one of the
highest levels of interoperability among NATO partners. Finnish troops joined the NATO Response Force (NRF),
a 13,000-strong, quickly deployable unit. F18 combat planes were certified to perform the most demanding coalition
operations, which enabled Finland to join the air patrol mission over Iceland, a Nordic NATO country without its
own armed forces. In 2013, Finland participated in NATO’s Steadfast Jazz exercise, which included territorial defence
scenarios. It also develops cyber defence capabilities, in cooperation with NATO.
However, the biggest shift in Finnish cooperation with NATO was triggered by the Russian annexation of Crimea. On
22 April, Finland decided to sign a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with NATO, which opens way for the
country to receive military assistance from western partners. According to the agreement, Finland will develop
infrastructure necessary to host aircraft and ships. It will also enable deepening interoperability beyond the current PfP
programme. The majority of major Finnish political parties have also declared an increase in defence spending after the
next parliamentary elections, which will take place in April 2015. Additionally, Finland decided to strengthen defence
cooperation with Sweden, and even suggested that both countries could sign a defence treaty.
Credible Ability for Accession. It is unlikely that Finland will seek full NATO membership unless directly
threatened by Russia. Finnish accession would make the NATO–Russian border twice as long as it is today, and would
probably trigger the accession of Sweden, which would be perceived by Russia as a shift in the balance of power and
a direct threat to Russian interests. In such situation, Russia could resort to the use of force to try to undermine the
territorial integrity of NATO countries and the credibility of the alliance.

At the same time, Russia’s increasing readiness to use force, its growing military potential, ability to conduct
a surprise-attack, and blatant threats toward Finland, will encourage Finnish authorities to look for some credible
security guarantees. To this end, Finland should develop full political and technical ability for quick accession to NATO
in the event of a direct threat. Although formally joining NATO can be approved by parliament, with a two-thirds
majority, Finnish leaders should initiate a national debate on membership in an attempt to change the negative attitude
of Finnish society towards accession. An information campaign would be also helpful if politicians decide to seek
membership in an emergency situation, without a referendum. It will be equally important to gain the political support
of NATO’s members, which will have to approve Finland’s membership in their parliaments. This is especially true in
the case of those nations that demonstrate a growing tendency to block decisions that might provoke a negative
response from Russia. To demonstrate that such unified support is possible, NATO should, at the September summit
in Wales, restate that the door for Finland (and Sweden) remains open.

Source: http://www.pism.pl/publications/bulletin/no-93-688

The more Russia intimidates Finland, the more likely Finland goes toward Nato. Me thinks. What do you think?

Gomorra
07-01-2014, 11:29 AM
Building more commercial activity between FIN and RUS would be best weapon to maintain status quo. It is the reality.

Äijä
07-02-2014, 06:59 AM
NATO or not we need to spend more money on defense.
And Stubb is an idiot, all out federalist that does not care shit about Finland, only peresenting it as a gift to Brussels after destroying it.

Anglojew
07-02-2014, 07:30 AM
There should be a third alliance in Europe. I don't think we should see Russia as an enemy and hope the situation in Ukraine is resolved but for historic reasons I understand why Finland would like the protection of NATO but this will antagonise Russia. This is why I'd suggest a third alliance of non-Nato countries besides Russia.

NATO members are in navy on map;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Major_NATO_affiliations_in_Europe.svg/870px-Major_NATO_affiliations_in_Europe.svg.png

Äijä
07-02-2014, 07:35 AM
There should be a third alliance in Europe. I don't think we should see Russia as an enemy and hope the situation in Ukraine is resolved but for historic reasons I understand why Finland would like the protection of NATO but this will antagonise Russia. This is why I'd suggest a third alliance of non-Nato countries besides Russia.

NATO members are in navy on map;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Major_NATO_affiliations_in_Europe.svg/870px-Major_NATO_affiliations_in_Europe.svg.png

Best thing would be a loose confederation with Sweden, Finland + others.
But Sweden is a total mess, it really is a dying country, some of them just dont see it yet.

Gomorra
07-05-2014, 02:51 PM
Stubb is an idiot

I don´t like him either but who cares jack shit what Ukko or Gomorra is thinking. Democracy is democracy.

Problem in Finland is that people don´t think politics or anything anymore, they only want to be in the winner side regardless their social status. If poor vote kokoomus, he is stupid.

Äijä
07-05-2014, 06:10 PM
I don´t like him either but who cares jack shit what Ukko or Gomorra is thinking. Democracy is democracy.

Problem in Finland is that people don´t think politics or anything anymore, they only want to be in the winner side regardless their social status. If poor vote kokoomus, he is stupid.

Kookoomus is good for are a typical hedonistic and narcicsistic middle class voter hiding his poor self esteem and thinking he is better than his ancestors living in the countryside.
Actually most Finnish politicians are totally out of their depth, most intelligent people dont get in to politics and it is run by retards.
The Finnish economy has been run down by these clowns, everything could have been avoided, it is all on them, they are criminals and should be convicted.

Rugevit
07-05-2014, 07:16 PM
IMO The talks about Finland joining NATO is part of the political game in the light of Ukrainian crisis. If Finland wanted to be a NATO member, it would have been a long time ago. Finland was wise choosing a neutral position not pissing off global military powers unlike Estonia, which is a typical post-soviet country. As soon as political atmosphere changes political influence will be transferred to Russia. Such is the history of the region during which the country was handed over between Sweden, Gerrmany, Russia . Lately, the USA. Finland will keep her sovereignty.

ruber
07-05-2014, 07:30 PM
The more Russia intimidates Finland, the more likely Finland goes toward Nato. Me thinks. What do you think?

Correct.

In an analogy, our Czech highest Army General Pavel openly said he is really thankfull for Putin´s agressive policy. Because it grants future budget increases for Czech army, after 20 years of bigger and bigger cuts. If Putin´s Russia invades one more country, even Czech voters would change their mind and agree with stable USA´s militar posts in our country. So, Putin, continue, so we Czechs can finaly build a good army!

Äijä
07-05-2014, 07:43 PM
Correct.

In an analogy, our Czech highest Army General Pavel openly said he is really thankfull for Putin´s agressive policy. Because it grants future budget increases for Czech army, after 20 years of bigger and bigger cuts. If Putin´s Russia invades one more country, even Czech voters would change their mind and agree with stable USA´s militar posts in our country. So, Putin, continue, so we Czechs can finaly build a good army!


First we need to get back European conscription, Europeans are traditionally militaristic, military service should be kept in highest regard.

Rugevit
07-05-2014, 07:46 PM
Correct.

In an analogy, our Czech highest Army General Pavel openly said he is really thankfull for Putin´s agressive policy. Because it grants future budget increases for Czech army, after 20 years of bigger and bigger cuts. If Putin´s Russia invades one more country, even Czech voters would change their mind and agree with stable USA´s militar posts in our country. So, Putin, continue, so we Czechs can finaly build a good army!

Possible threat from Soviet Union was much stronger after WWII ended. Also, Czech Republic and Finland have different geographic position. Czech Republic is a central European country. Ukraine and Slovakia between Russia and Czech Rep. I cannot see how Russia can intimidate Czech Republic, while Finland is in the corner of Europe sharing common border with Russia. Not only it shares border with Russia it is located next to the Russian most powerful northern fleet. Any involvement with NATO will increase tensions between two countries. After the end of WWII the relations between Finland and SU/Russia has been good in comparison to some western European countries.

Rugevit
07-05-2014, 07:52 PM
First we need to get back European conscription, Europeans are traditionally militaristic, military service should be kept in highest regard.

If that happens then it would mean EU is becoming more independent of Washington policies, which USA don't want to see. USA and UK are allies controlling EU suiting both USA and UK fine.

Äijä
07-05-2014, 07:57 PM
EU needs to fall, as well as Russia.
Russia is no different from EU and USA, empire hiding as a federation.
Free the people of Europe to rule themselves, end to race and cultural mixing by central goverments.

ruber
07-05-2014, 09:03 PM
EU needs to fall, as well as Russia.
Russia is no different from EU and USA, empire hiding as a federation.
Free the people of Europe to rule themselves, end to race and cultural mixing by central goverments.

Russia IS different from EU.

I grew up under Soviet occupation, when 500.000 heads strong "Russian" army was here in Czechoslovakia.

And now we are in EU for 10 years. While I have so many things to critize EU about, it is asolutelly incomparable with living under Moscow rule.

EU will be exactly how member states will make it. If it is shitty, it just means our European countries and our local voted politicians are shitty, nothing more. Accept this truth.

Empecinado
07-05-2014, 09:14 PM
Russia IS different from EU.

I grew up under Soviet occupation, when 500.000 heads strong "Russian" army was here in Czechoslovakia.

And now we are in EU for 10 years. While I have so many things to critize EU about, it is asolutelly incomparable with living under Moscow rule.

EU will be exactly how member states will make it. If it is shitty, it just means our European countries and our local voted politicians are shitty, nothing more. Accept this truth.

EU will be exactly how burocrats (many of whom were former Commie GDR politicians, btw) will make it. In fact the goal of the EU consist on member states giving up more and more sovereignity until EU will work like a single state.

Äijä
07-05-2014, 09:52 PM
Russia IS different from EU.

I grew up under Soviet occupation, when 500.000 heads strong "Russian" army was here in Czechoslovakia.

And now we are in EU for 10 years. While I have so many things to critize EU about, it is asolutelly incomparable with living under Moscow rule.

EU will be exactly how member states will make it. If it is shitty, it just means our European countries and our local voted politicians are shitty, nothing more. Accept this truth.

Accept that the will of the people is not in the mind of those carving up EU, the European people are not shitty even if they might be ruled by shitty politicians.

ruber
07-05-2014, 11:11 PM
Accept that the will of the people is not in the mind of those carving up EU, the European people are not shitty even if they might be ruled by shitty politicians.

People in a free democratic country have exactly those politicians they deserve. If they are shitty, we can blame only ourselves. (and Czech politicians are shitty, believe me)

EU is made by 28 countries, they all are lead by elected politicians, there is even an EU parliament directly voted by all citizens. EU is exactly how 28 member states and its citizens created it. There are no Martians that woud have fingers in it!

Federalized EU with united international policy and one strong army might actually be a really good thing at the end, when I think about it, in the light of recent events (Irak, Russia...). Because right now, in a real conflict, Europe would be f****d up without having USA behind our backs. Thats the hard truth. We are relaying too much, instead to be a powerfull ally, we are more a liability. But, half a billion people with GDP comparable with USA, combined with a real unity and one army - that would give Europa leverage and deter many future threats. "United we stand, divided we fall" is a very old proverb. Why do people think Putin cooperates with extremist european political parties that want EU in chaos and dismantled? Becuse he wishes only the best for people in EU, I am sure, he wants to "save" us before ourselves, what a philantrop.

Äijä
07-05-2014, 11:19 PM
People in a free democratic country have exactly those politicians they deserve. If they are shitty, we can blame only ourselves. (and Czech politicians are shitty, believe me)

EU is made by 28 countries, they all are lead by elected politicians, there is even an EU parliament directly voted by all citizens. EU is exactly how 28 member states and its citizens created it. There are no Martians that woud have fingers in it!

Federalized EU with united international policy and one strong army might actually be a really good thing at the end, when I think about it, in the light of recent events (Irak, Russia...). Because right now, in a real conflict, Europe would be f****d up without having USA behind our backs. Thats the hard truth. We are relaying too much, instead to be a powerfull ally, we are more a liability. But, half a billion people with GDP comparable with USA, combined with a real unity and one army - that would give Europa leverage and deter many future threats. "United we stand, divided we fall" is a very old proverb. Why do people think Putin cooperates with extremist european political parties that want EU in chaos and dismantled? Becuse he wishes only the best for people in EU, I am sure, he wants to "save" us before ourselves, what a philantrop.

I dont want a federation with rest of the Europe or with Russia, Finland wont survive any empire without dissapearing.

Rugevit
07-05-2014, 11:53 PM
People in a free democratic country have exactly those politicians they deserve. If they are shitty, we can blame only ourselves. (and Czech politicians are shitty, believe me)

EU is made by 28 countries, they all are lead by elected politicians, there is even an EU parliament directly voted by all citizens. EU is exactly how 28 member states and its citizens created it. There are no Martians that woud have fingers in it!

Federalized EU with united international policy and one strong army might actually be a really good thing at the end, when I think about it, in the light of recent events (Irak, Russia...). Because right now, in a real conflict, Europe would be f****d up without having USA behind our backs. Thats the hard truth. We are relaying too much, instead to be a powerfull ally, we are more a liability. But, half a billion people with GDP comparable with USA, combined with a real unity and one army - that would give Europa leverage and deter many future threats. "United we stand, divided we fall" is a very old proverb. Why do people think Putin cooperates with extremist european political parties that want EU in chaos and dismantled? Becuse he wishes only the best for people in EU, I am sure, he wants to "save" us before ourselves, what a philantrop.


USA backing of EU comes at a cost. EU is a vassal state of the USA. And Europe will be screwed up, because Europe is following the political model of the Unites States. Multiculturalism is promoted in Europe creating a melting pot of people with foreign cultures brought from around the world. I am not saying multiculturalism is a bad thing. But it's not ideal model for many European countries. Given another 50 years and Europe may have a very similar society to that of the USA.

Former Soviet block countries have been used as an instrument in geopolitics.. It's not Finland which fought a bitter war against Soviets loosing her territory to Russia. It's not Austria which isn't further away from Russia than Czech Republic. It's not eastern half of Germany either. Czech Rep has not been Soviet satellite for 25 years and you are still talking about Soviet dominance between 1945-1989. The history of Europe is one war after another. And of all countries Russia is your main enemy? It's your main enemy because the west needs your territory as a buffer zone to install anti-missile defence at some point in future making your country a potential target. It won't be Austria or eastern Germany. It will be your country. They are running of scare campaign instilling fear in the minds of people helping them to convince you need the help of the USA. If you think about the consequences for your country could have been far worse if Germany implemented General Ost plan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost#Phases_of_the_plan_and_its_impleme ntation) sending 50% of your population elsewhere keeping Sudety for ethnic Germans. Germany lost the war. Soviet installed a puppet government in your country for 40 years. It's time to move on. Or you can live in the past forever remaining to be a puppet of one powerful country or another as you have always been.

ruber
07-06-2014, 12:07 AM
I dont want a federation with rest of the Europe or with Russia, Finland wont survive any empire without dissapearing.

Czechs/Bohemia survived within almost identical borders in Central Europe +1000 years, while so many invaders and empires changed while coming from all posible directions, we survived Avars and Huns, Holy Roman empire, many centuries in Habsburg´s empire, Ottomans attacks, Napoleon´s army, Swedes, Nazi German´s Protectorate, 40 years as a Soviet satelite state and now 10 years in the EU. And we are just fine. Why should Finns and Finnland fare any worse? Russians might get nasty when they want to destroy a whole nation, but EU?

Rugevit
07-06-2014, 12:21 AM
Russians might get nasty when they want to destroy a whole nation, but EU?

In the last 1,500 years when were the Russians nasty to you other than 1968, which happened after a monumental struggle during WWII by them? One of the strongest pan-Slavic movement was in your country in the 19th century looking up to Russia hoping she will help you to gain independence from Austro-Hungary. They have brain-washed you sorry to say it.

ruber
07-06-2014, 12:56 AM
Yes, Russia is theoretically the most possible candidate to be our next enemy, out of all countries. Russian secret service is too much active here for the last 25 years and its getting actually worse, deportations of diplomats for their unlawfull activities are so numerous that it gets no press coverage anymore, old news. We are also a giant laundry for dirty Russian money. We are dependent on Russian gas. Russians are the biggest force in large parts of our real estate market. Russians are currently the second most numerous immigrants (even if I include immigrants from EU nations). Their power, arrogance and interests grow here slowly, but steadily, and it starts to get people nervous. Common trade is only around 5%-7% now, luckily, but increases. In 10 or 15 years, our dependency might grow to uncomfortable levels.

Regarding USA - we Czechs are natural cowards and we know it, to expect we would fight hard for our independency is futile. So we know we need a powerfull ally. USA is the only allied country that never betrayed us in our history so far. We understand that there is no free meal in this world and we are prepared to pay the price. At least we get to chose this time who we want to be indebted to. We are too weak to be neutral, so this is not an option for us either.

Äijä
07-06-2014, 01:00 AM
Czechs/Bohemia survived within almost identical borders in Central Europe +1000 years, while so many invaders and empires changed while coming from all posible directions, we survived Avars and Huns, Holy Roman empire, many centuries in Habsburg´s empire, Ottomans attacks, Napoleon´s army, Swedes, Nazi German´s Protectorate, 40 years as a Soviet satelite state and now 10 years in the EU. And we are just fine. Why should Finns and Finnland fare any worse? Russians might get nasty when they want to destroy a whole nation, but EU?

Free movement of peoples, we have never had that before in Europe.

Well after the migration period a least.

Rugevit
07-06-2014, 01:14 AM
Yes, Russia is theoretically the most possible candidate to be our next enemy, out of all countries. Russian secret service is too much active here for the last 25 years and its getting actually worse, deportations of diplomats for their unlawfull activities are so numerous that it gets no press coverage anymore, old news.

Is that insider information or you read a scary story?



We are also a giant laundry for dirty Russian money.


How do you know the money are dirty? Is that also insider information?



We are dependent on Russian gas. Russians are the biggest force in large parts of our real estate market.


How does buying gas and selling real-estate to citizens of one country make that country your potential enemy? Buy gas from USA or north Africa. Sell real estate to Americans and north Africans too.



Russians are currently the second most numerous immigrants (even if I include immigrants from EU nations). Their power, arrogance and interests grow here slowly, but steadily, and it starts to get people nervous. Common trade is only around 5%-7% now, luckily, but increases. In 10 or 15 years, our dependency might grow to uncomfortable levels.


I recently read that Czech authorities welcome Russian tourists. And how does trading with Russia makes Russia an enemy? For example, Finland is trading with Russia buying almost all gas from Russia. They don't get paranoid over trade realising economic benefits.



Regarding USA - we Czechs are natural cowards and we know it, to expect we would fight hard for our independency is futile. So we know we need a powerfull ally. USA is the only allied country that never betrayed us in our history so far. We understand that there is no free meal in this world and we are prepared to pay the price. At least we get to chose this time who we want to be indebted to. We are too weak to be neutral, so this is not an option for us either.


To a neutral observer, you look paranoid. The difference between you , a citizen of former block country, and Ukko, is that you need to be in a fold of another more powerful country having a common enemy, while Ukko wants his country to be independent of empires, unions and federations.

Rugevit
07-06-2014, 01:44 AM
I grew up under Soviet occupation, when 500.000 heads strong "Russian" army was here in Czechoslovakia.

If you grew up under Soviet occupation you must be in your mid 30s now. But you have a simplistic point of view for a grown person. What a shame. Good night. :)