Turkish Nationalists: Should Turkey go through an Islamic Revolution (like Iran) !!!

[silverbell]

Asalamowalekum

I'm a Muslim American myself, and I went to Istanbul a few years ago. I was deeply hurted by watching the westernization in the country. In fact, they are even more westernized than MOST Muslim Americans. They hold hands, girls wear knee-length skirts, couples even kiss in public, and gay parades. What's wrong with my Muslim brothers and sisters?

Turkey has one of the world's most beautiful culture, heritage, music, literature and especially art. Please do not be westernized. Turkish nationalists: do you think your country should go through an Islamic revolution like Iran?

Iran 1970s
48803

Iran today
48804

[Crn Volk]

It would be a shame to cover up Turkish women. Some of them are quite hot ;)

[Musso]

Don't worry, under Erdogan, Turkey will become more Islamist.

[Musso]

Also, Turkish Nationalists, tend to be secular and strongly support Ataturk and his secular ideology. The Turkish Nationalists also favor more Turkic ties rather than Muslim (which they associate with Arab world). So Turkish Nationalists in general will be against more Islamic Turkey, it's usually the conservative Turks/Kurds that live in Central/Eastern Turkey that will support such Islamist ideals.

[Hayalet]

Holding hands and kissing in public doesn't really have anything to do with Westernization. Dumb thread.

[Shah-Jehan]

The circumstances in Turkey are not the same as that in Iran. Iran was ruled by a dictatorship that was a puppet of the US while Turkey is democratic. Plus, things you've mentioned were all beginning in the Ottoman period, the post-Tanzimat era which took into shape today. I think Turkey should remain as it is politically.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Asalamowalekum

I'm a Muslim American myself, and I went to Istanbul a few years ago. I was deeply hurted by watching the westernization in the country. In fact, they are even more westernized than MOST Muslim Americans. They hold hands, girls wear knee-length skirts, couples even kiss in public, and gay parades. What's wrong with my Muslim brothers and sisters?

Turkey has one of the world's most beautiful culture, heritage, music, literature and especially art. Please do not be westernized. Turkish nationalists: do you think your country should go through an Islamic revolution like Iran?

Iran 1970s
48803

Iran today
48804

You have been to wrong place ..Don't come here, visit Saudi Arabia ,you'll enjoy more ...

[dado]

You have been to wrong place ..Don't come here, visit Saudi Arabia ,you'll enjoy more ...

how rude

[Scholarios]

Oh god , more people crying about " Westernization". People generally choose miniskirts, Heineken, and brunch cafes over female circumsicion and tribal warfare? Go figure...

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

how rude

Obviously he won't enjoy here...Kabul can be a nice touristic attaction for likes of him.He may party with Taliban too ...

[Kemalisté]

Thanks for opening such a thread. I'm sure it will piss off many people here who like associating Turkey with the Middle East. It contributes to our image in a good way.

When it comes to your question; Iranian people didn't mean to go in that way before overthrowing the Shah. The struggle against the regime was mostly done by secular left-wing aspects of the society. Yea, indeed, Khomeini had a good degree of credibility amongst Iranian revolutionaries, simply because he seemed quite liberal and modern-minded before showing his true face after the revolution. Iranian people couldn't even understand what was going on and it was too late when they realized they were in big trouble.

Turkish people, especially the new generation, is very modern and Westernized. There's no turning back from this point. Erdogan can't implement Sharia law, no matter how stronger he becomes. Turkey's circumstances are much, much different. First of all; it's a EU candidate, member of CoE. It has had a long history of modernization dating back to the Ottoman era. There's an extremely poor ground-support for that. Such kind of efforts would be as effective as trying to establish a Communist rule in the US.

A research shows only %8 of Turkey wants a constitution with no "secularism" in it (doesn't necessarily mean all of those wants Sharia law), and %82 favours Ataturk's principles. Compared to the US; one-third of Americans wish for a state religion.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/more-secular-green-turkey-wanted-poll.aspx?pageID=238&nID=35272&NewsCatID=341
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/06/christianity-state-religion_n_3022255.html

Also, Turkish nationalism is largely secular. Historically; it came into appear with the Young Turks, who also embraced secular values and were highly inspired by the French Revolution. Ataturk, Ziya Gokalp, Namik Kemal etc. are known as principle figures of Turkish nationalism, and they were all secular and supported Western values. It's kinda different than that in most of Europe; where nationalists often tend to follow a religiously fanatic agenda. Turkish nationalism and patriotism is more similar to French nationalism and patriotism, as it was inspired by that in the first place.

[Kemalisté]

how rude

Why don't you even go join ISIS?

[Anatolian Eagle]

No, go away. We're not going to fuck up entire country because some random outlander like you is hurt. I'm sure many of these beautiful sweety candy things you mentioned were swallowed in Iran after the Islamic Revolution. Not to mention, it swallows nationalism aswell (examples are present), so your question is flawed to begin with.

In other words, if you love it so much just go Islamize-fuckupize your own country and don't ask for more please.

[Vullkan]

People should understand that no body in this world to tell women how should they be dressed.They are not animals that you own.

Maybe this video will say it all


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDh2fF4ccwI

Islamic pigs will all go to hell .There will not be 72 virgins when you die but a big fat devil dick that is the best punishment for you who hate women.

[Vullkan]

Islam is a fashist ideology that should be banned.According to sharia if u are a muslim you cant change your religion .The punishment is death if u do so.

this is so fucked up/;

[Kemalisté]

People should understand that no body in this world to tell women how should they be dressed.They are not animals that you own.

Maybe this video will say it all


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDh2fF4ccwI

Islamic pigs will all go to hell .There will not be 72 virgins when you die but a big fat devil dick that is the best punishment for you who hate women.

Not all Muslims are like that; let's agree to put up a fight against extremists but generalization is no good.

[Kemalisté]

Also, Turkish Nationalists, tend to be secular and strongly support Ataturk and his secular ideology. The Turkish Nationalists also favor more Turkic ties rather than Muslim (which they associate with Arab world). So Turkish Nationalists in general will be against more Islamic Turkey, it's usually the conservative Turks/Kurds that live in Central/Eastern Turkey that will support such Islamist ideals.

There are mainly two types of nationalism in the Turkish political spectrum. Not all nationalists follow a Turan agenda. CHP and MHP are two nationalist parties, but they differ by ideology. CHP is a social democratic and left-leaning party, its voters are mostly made up by urban middle class also called as White Turks. They don't necessarily feel themselves close to say Kazakhstan and such. They pursue a secular and westernized lifestyle, and strongly advocate the founding principles of the Turkish Republic, so, their nationalism and understanding of Turkishness is limited to the boundaries of Turkey. They don't care about the outside world much, let alone other Turkic nations. The other type of nationalists is affiliated with the MHP, which more embraces Central Asian roots of the Turkish people and their politics is more based upon ethnicity as such.

[Vullkan]

All religions are mental drugs.They were created to control populations.God did not create them.Humanity is an irrelevant part of the universe .God doesn't care what you do and how you behave.God is not a spoiled child to play with dolls.That is simply stupid.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

The best thing what did happen to Turkey was/is exactly the secularism, free from religious dogma inside Turkish institutions different from majority of backwater states of Mid-East you'll see, with this being said, Turkey growth also liberal economy is thanks to secularism which played crucial role for well-being of its own citizens thus doubt this would change in near future in favor of installing an Islamic country.

[dado]

Turkish people, especially the new generation, is very modern and Westernized. There's no turning back from this point. Erdogan can't implement Sharia law, no matter how stronger he becomes. Turkey's circumstances are much, much different. First of all; it's a EU candidate, member of CoE. It has had a long history of modernization dating back to the Ottoman era. There's an extremely poor ground-support for that. Such kind of efforts would be as effective as trying to establish a Communist rule in the US.

A research shows only %8 of Turkey wants a constitution with no "secularism" in it (doesn't necessarily mean all of those wants Sharia law), and %82 favours Ataturk's principles. Compared to the US; one-third of Americans wish for a state religion.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/more-secular-green-turkey-wanted-poll.aspx?pageID=238&nID=35272&NewsCatID=341
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/06/christianity-state-religion_n_3022255.html

Also, Turkish nationalism is largely secular. Historically; it came into appear with the Young Turks, who also embraced secular values and were highly inspired by the French Revolution. Ataturk, Ziya Gokalp, Namik Kemal etc. are known as principle figures of Turkish nationalism, and they were all secular and supported Western values. It's kinda different than that in most of Europe; where nationalists often tend to follow a religiously fanatic agenda. Turkish nationalism and patriotism is more similar to French nationalism and patriotism, as it was inspired by that in the first place.

yeah...keep moaning and watch mr Erdogan deal with kemalist dirtbags like yourself.... with that mindset you have no future in turkey, better go somewhere else

[dado]

The best thing what did happen to Turkey was/is exactly the secularism, free from religious dogma inside Turkish institutions different from majority of backwater states of Mid-East you'll see, with this being said, Turkey growth also liberal economy is thanks to secularism which played crucial role for well-being of its own citizens thus doubt this would change in near future in favor of installing an Islamic country.

wtf...turkeys econiomic development started only when secularists where removed

[dado]

Obviously he won't enjoy here...Kabul can be a nice touristic attaction for likes of him.He may party with Taliban too ...

istanbull is muslim city and he is right saying there is no place for gays in turkey in general and istanbul particulary

[Vullkan]

Pakistan,afganista,sudan is a muslim sharia law and look how developed is .

Turkey was not developed cause of muslims.Turkey development started before erdogan was in charge.

The politicians dont develop a country the people do.Islam countries combined have less nobel for science than only israel.

Science is the only way to get development not some fairy tales that forbid knowledge.

[Kiyant]

Please stay away from any Turkic country thank you :)

[The Illyrian Warrior]

wtf...turkeys econiomic development started only when secularists where removed

Turkey still has written secular constitution, Erdogan party might favor Islamic state but this doesn't change Turkey's secular character nor has the power to change the system due general population view about this issue.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Hey Silverbell! May be Bosnia is a better option for you ..
Dado would like to invite you as an honoured guest

[Kiyant]

Hey Silverbell! May be Bosnia is a better option for you ..
Dado would like to invite you as an honoured guest

Believe me most Bosniaks are not like dado

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

istanbull is muslim city and he is right saying there is no place for gays in turkey in general and istanbul particulary

Mind your own business !

[Kemalisté]

Believe me most Bosniaks are not like dado

He's an illegitimate child of a poor woman who was raped by Serbian soldiers.

[Kemalisté]

Turkey still has written secular constitution, Erdogan party might favor Islamic state but this doesn't change Turkey's secular character nor has the power to change the system due general population view about this issue.

Erdogan receives high votes only due to the economic stability. Erdogan got %47 of the votes in 2007, and his votes reduced back to %38 in 2009 when Turkey had a economic crisis. His political success is directly related to the Economy.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

First of all OP has made a great logical mistake when he picked Turkish nationalists as targets of his propaganda.
Islam of 20 th century (Not Turkish Islam which is nationalistic ) is a multi cultural cause and stricly against nationalism of every kind.
..Even the most religious Turks would not support such thing.

So it is not a matter of mini skirts and such..or being westernised ..as they try to portrait all the time ..

[Kemalisté]

Erdogan himself seems to have no problem with secularism. He proposed it to post-Arab Spring countries.

http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/erdogan-calls-secular-egypt

[Wadaad]

First of all OP has made a great logical mistake when he picked Turkish nationalists as targets of his propaganda.
Islam of 20 th century (Not Turkish Islam ) is a multi cultural cause and stricly against nationalism of every kind.
..Even the most religious Turks would not support such thing.
So he is either trolling or very ignorant.

Spoken like someone who doesnt know Islam...Islam has always been anti-nationalist, not just in the 20th century...and when the caliphs were in Istanbu, calling what they practiced (Sunni Islam under the Hanbali madhhab), "Turkish Islam" is a ridicilous revisionism.

[Borna]

couples even kiss in public

Wooow, stone them and behead them to satisfy almighty !

[Kemalisté]

Spoken like someone who doesnt know Islam...Islam has always been anti-nationalist, not just in the 20th century...and when the caliphs were in Istanbu, calling what they practiced (Sunni Islam under the Hanbali madhhab), "Turkish Islam" is a ridicilous revisionism.

Who asked your opinion, fucking somalian subhuman? if I was born in Somalia I'd kill myself. Yet your ambition to keep living in a modern Western country with that background deserves appreciation.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Spoken like someone who doesnt know Islam...Islam has always been anti-nationalist, not just in the 20th century...and when the caliphs were in Istanbu, calling what they practiced (Sunni Islam under the Hanbali madhhab), "Turkish Islam" is a ridicilous revisionism.

We ruled Islamic regions for centuries and Wahhabis with their sneaky anti national principles are new invention against Turkish influence in region..
You don't know Yesevism ..it is not recent revisionism but roots of Turkish Islam fed by Horasan mystics ..medieval.

According to Yesevism ,religion is a choice being Turk is destiny .

http://i.imgur.com/42BGXKa.jpg

[Kiyant]

He's an illegitimate child of a poor woman who was raped by Serbian soldiers.

"jokes" like that are inappropriate and pathetic

[Kiyant]

Who asked your opinion, fucking somalian subhuman? if I was born in Somalia I'd kill myself. Yet your ambition to keep living in a modern Western country with that background deserves appreciation.

:picard1:
Stop insulting people that have a different opinion than you

[Kemalisté]

Hahaha, I kinda love how these Arab and other Muslims keep using paganic Crescent-Flag which we incorporated into the religion as an Islamic symbol. Allah must be turning in his grave.

[moja123]

He's an illegitimate child of a poor woman who was raped by Serbian soldiers.

Incredibly rude and uncalled for. It's even more hurtful knowing this sentence comes from a Turk.

Kusura bakma ama bu cümleyi ve hakaretleri bir Türk'e hiç yakıştıramadım. Ben de milliyetçiyim ama milliyetçilik insanlara, hele de Boşnaklar gibi yıllarca yok yere zulmedilmiş bir halka hakaret etmeyi gerektirmez.

[Kemalisté]

Incredibly rude and uncalled for. It's even more hurtful knowing this sentence comes from a Turk.

Kusura bakma ama bu cümleyi ve hakaretleri bir Türk'e hiç yakıştıramadım. Ben de milliyetçiyim ama milliyetçilik insanlara, hele de Boşnaklar gibi yıllarca yok yere zulmedilmiş bir halka hakaret etmeyi gerektirmez.

He deserves that. His mentality is no different than that of ISIS.

[Kiyant]

He deserves that. His mentality is no different than that of ISIS.

And your mentallity is incredibly corrupt.
There are lines that shouldnt be stepped over

[Borna]

Turkey was aiding ISIS during their fight in Syria, i have personally seen pictures of a Bosnian Wahhabi in some terrorist camp or asylum on Turkish soil.
These secularist are probably minor force in Turkey.

[wvwvw]

Thanks for opening such a thread. I'm sure it will piss off many people here who like associating Turkey with the Middle East. It contributes to our image in a good way.

When it comes to your question; Iranian people didn't mean to go in that way before overthrowing the Shah. The struggle against the regime was mostly done by secular left-wing aspects of the society. Yea, indeed, Khomeini had a good degree of credibility amongst Iranian revolutionaries, simply because he seemed quite liberal and modern-minded before showing his true face after the revolution. Iranian people couldn't even understand what was going on and it was too late when they realized they were in big trouble.

Turkish people, especially the new generation, is very modern and Westernized. There's no turning back from this point. Erdogan can't implement Sharia law, no matter how stronger he becomes. Turkey's circumstances are much, much different. First of all; it's a EU candidate, member of CoE. It has had a long history of modernization dating back to the Ottoman era. There's an extremely poor ground-support for that. Such kind of efforts would be as effective as trying to establish a Communist rule in the US.

A research shows only %8 of Turkey wants a constitution with no "secularism" in it (doesn't necessarily mean all of those wants Sharia law), and %82 favours Ataturk's principles. Compared to the US; one-third of Americans wish for a state religion.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/more-secular-green-turkey-wanted-poll.aspx?pageID=238&nID=35272&NewsCatID=341
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/06/christianity-state-religion_n_3022255.html

Also, Turkish nationalism is largely secular. Historically; it came into appear with the Young Turks, who also embraced secular values and were highly inspired by the French Revolution. Ataturk, Ziya Gokalp, Namik Kemal etc. are known as principle figures of Turkish nationalism, and they were all secular and supported Western values. It's kinda different than that in most of Europe; where nationalists often tend to follow a religiously fanatic agenda. Turkish nationalism and patriotism is more similar to French nationalism and patriotism, as it was inspired by that in the first place.

The OP is very likely a Turkish troll.

Turks are certainly not more "Westernized" than American muslims, and everyone who has been to Turkey give a very different pic than what she describes.

[Kemalisté]

Turkey was aiding ISIS during their fight in Syria, i have personally seen pictures of a Bosnian Wahhabi in some terrorist camp or asylum on Turkish soil.
These secularist are probably minor force in Turkey.

We need no old farts wasting our oxygen, just die already.

[legolasbozo]

Before republic, there were greeks, armenians, jews living throughout anatolia with muslims, were there any seculer constitutions those times? İttihad ve teraaki mindset was a slave of europe, they were thinking being secular mean is being ass licker of europe. Government should be secular not people. Their mindset ruled Turkey for years, They have been oppressing minorities, kurds, conservatives for years. Akp is secular conversely what western media trying to portray, there were gay parade at the beginning of ramadan, is there any criminal report, any attack issue? No. Conservatives were making "free hijab" demonstrations at early 90's and they were arresting, put in jail etc. This was turkish "secularist" mindset, thanks god this is changed eternally.

[Borna]

We need no old farts wasting our oxygen, just die already.

Hey my salafi brother! Realize Turkey is not European country, then we will discuss. In the mean time solve the differences with your Bosnian Balija brothers.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc5jcnrCmC4

Look how your brothers in Bosnia respect the Isis fighters! They even translate these birthday tunes!

[Kemalisté]

Hey my salafi brother! Realize Turkey is not European country, then we will discuss. In the mean time solve the differences with your Bosnian Balija brothers.

And you should just realize your time has come.

[Kiyant]

And you should just realize your time has come.

He is not really 77

[Kemalisté]

He is not really 77

Whatever, wouldn't mind if he died.

[Kiyant]

The OP is very likely a Turkish troll.

Turks are certainly not more "Westernized" than American muslims, and everyone who has been to Turkey give a very different pic than what she describes.

First you lie about Turkey like almost every time.
Second he is most likely not Turkish at all
And at last we had those discussions every time

[Borna]

Whatever, wouldn't mind if he died.

What if i decide to die in holy jihad against Turkish secularist alongside my ISIS brothers ?

[Kemalisté]

The OP is very likely a Turkish troll.

Turks are certainly not more "Westernized" than American muslims, and everyone who has been to Turkey give a very different pic than what she describes.

How's my autistic girl?

[Borna]

Btw give me one more thumbs down and you will see what is going to happen.

[Kemalisté]

What if i decide to die in holy jihad against Turkish secularist alongside my ISIS brothers ?

Sure; they're waiting for you in Raqqa, go join them and get a good missile or bomb over your head.

[Kemalisté]

---

[Borna]

Sure; they're waiting for you in Raqqa, go join them and get a good missile or bomb over your head.

Your ancestors are ashamed of you! You spend your time on apricity while your brothers bleed in Iraq and Syria fighting for glory of Tewhid!

[Kemalisté]

Btw give me one more thumbs down and you will see what is going to happen.

I earn your mom and give her a thumb too?

[Kemalisté]

Your ancestors are ashamed of you! You spend your time on apricity while your brothers bleed in Iraq and Syria fighting for glory of Tewhid!

ISIS militants need some women to motivate themselves at the peak of war nowadays so just do them a favour and send your mom.

[Borna]

I earn your mom and give her a thumb too?

Very mature, however i will demonstrate my European cultural superiority and not insult your family members.

[Kemalisté]

Very mature, however i will demonstrate my European cultural superiority and not insult your family members.

Ahaha, we all know what kind of insults we hear from your "European" fellows here.

[Borna]

Ahaha, we all know what kind of insults we hear from your "European" fellows here.

You didn't hear them from me, besides i am not responsible for what other people speak. I keep my posts without insults and flames, unlike you.

[legolasbozo]

Very mature, however i will demonstrate my European cultural superiority and not insult your family members.

Who are u to decide who is european or not? Put your photo to classify section and let ta posters to decide whether you look like an arab or european ok? He says i m european then he is, i say i m middle eastern and so i am. As far as i remember u look like an arab.

[gültekin]

first, Turkish Islam roots come from Akhmet Yassawi teaching http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khoja_Akhmet_Yassawi

Turkey belongs to the Turks. It doesn't matter in which religion they believe or not belive, Muslim Christian Tengrist atheist etc. .we choose only our own way. and that is no one's business outside Turkish Nation. seems , some raped dogs have forgotten thes Lesson

[gültekin]

We ruled Islam for centuries and Wahhabis with their sneaky anti national principles are new invention against Turkish influence in region..
You don't know Yesevism ..it is not recent revisionism but roots of Turkish Islam from Horasan mystics ..medieval.

According to Yesevism ,religion is a choice being Turk is destiny .

http://i.imgur.com/42BGXKa.jpg
this

[Kemalisté]

You didn't hear them from me, besides i am not responsible for what other people speak. I keep my posts without insults and flames, unlike you.

Don't know but since you bring it into some cultural thing you should know about how other people who belong to "your culture" behave.

[Kemalisté]

Before republic, there were greeks, armenians, jews living throughout anatolia with muslims, were there any seculer constitutions those times?

Those non-Muslim minorities only began to be treated as equal citizens as Muslims after the secularization period. The Ottoman system divided citizens into religious groups and treated them separately. The Republic brought them under one roof, one national identity.

Young Turks and the Committee of Union and Progress had a great support amongst Greeks and Jews. Young Turks overthrew the freak sultan Abdulhamid who were butchering non-Muslims and introduced the values of the French Revolution to the society. Viva la 1908 revolution!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Young_Turk_Revolution_-_Flayer_for_the_constitution.png

[Wadaad]

And you should just realize your time has come.

Maybe you should illuminate yourself some more...no matter how much you try to lick the boots of the likes of ringelnatter, Europeans will never see you as part of the west. Maybe you can post more Turkish gay parades to impress them and show them how secular and cool your people are.

[Kemalisté]

Maybe you should illuminate yourself some more...no matter how much you try to lick the boots of the likes of ringelnatter, Europeans will never see you as part of the west. Maybe you can post more Turkish gay parades to impress them and show them how secular and cool your people are.

Don't worry; we're secular and cool enough not to be compared to your shithole Somalia.

[legolasbozo]

Those non-Muslim minorities only began to be treated as equal citizens as Muslims after the secularization period. The Ottoman system divided citizens into religious groups and treated them separately. The Republic brought them under one roof, one national identity.

Young Turks and the Committee of Union and Progress had a great support amongst Greeks and Jews. Young Turks overthrew the freak sultan Abdulhamid who were butchering non-Muslims and introduced the values of the French Revolution to the society. Viva la 1908 revolution!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Young_Turk_Revolution_-_Flayer_for_the_constitution.png


İttihad and teraaki butchered armenians, they wanted us to take aside with germany at ww1. Tax on wealth, 6-7 september events in istanbul, all those things happened because of their mindset. They hijacked ottoman tolerence culture and islam. They co-operated with west, and now what we have in middle east, balkans. These territories were being ruled under ottomans better than now. Whatever their racist and european wannabe mindset is all garbage now. Nobody is against west or europe, we should follow their constitutions in certain degree, our government should be secular, everybody should be free about their lifestyle, atheist, gay what comes to your mind. But we wont be ass licker of europe anymore, we dont need them.

[dado]

Turkey still has written secular constitution, Erdogan party might favor Islamic state but this doesn't change Turkey's secular character nor has the power to change the system due general population view about this issue.

turkey is secular only on paper right now...turkish government is building mosques...not only in turkey....turkish prime minister is openly propagating islamic beliefs

[Borna]

Maybe you should illuminate yourself some more...no matter how much you try to lick the boots of the likes of ringelnatter, Europeans will never see you as part of the west. Maybe you can post more Turkish gay parades to impress them and show them how secular and cool your people are.

I have much deeper respect for true Muslims then these neglecting convertites. I consider you my enemy, and i always will, but i respect the man who fights for what he thinks he is good. Certain members from mainly Islamic countries tend to lie how religion is not that important and something like that, in order to be acceptable for Europeans. That is very disgusting.

[portusaus]

Asalamowalekum

I'm a Muslim American myself, and I went to Istanbul a few years ago. I was deeply hurted by watching the westernization in the country. In fact, they are even more westernized than MOST Muslim Americans. They hold hands, girls wear knee-length skirts, couples even kiss in public, and gay parades. What's wrong with my Muslim brothers and sisters?

Turkey has one of the world's most beautiful culture, heritage, music, literature and especially art. Please do not be westernized. Turkish nationalists: do you think your country should go through an Islamic revolution like Iran?

Iran 1970s
48803

Iran today
48804

The bolded is okay.

The underlined is not.

Islam is nasty, Arab-hijacked Jewish sophism, and it's clouding your instinctive morality. I do not believe most of you can come to your senses.

[Kemalisté]

I have much deeper respect for true Muslims then these neglecting convertites. I consider you my enemy, and i always will, but i respect the man who fights for what he thinks he is good. Certain members from mainly Islamic countries tend to lie how religion is not that important and something like that, in order to be acceptable for Europeans. That is very disgusting.

Yea because everybody has to live up to your ideals. You consider yourself too significant while you're no more than an antisocial armchair warrior.

[Kemalisté]

The bolded is okay.

The underlined is not.

Islam is nasty, Arab-hijacked Jewish sophism, and it's clouding your instinctive morality. I do not believe most of you can come to your senses.

I hope you end up in a gay prison. I believe in natural justice.

[Kamal900]

Ahaha, we all know what kind of insults we hear from your "European" fellows here.

Secularism is the key to prosperity and success of the nation and people. I dont know why this troller here says otherwise, but she hasn't looked at the islamic countries on how bad they are. In Syria, before the civil war by the foreign backed terrorists, all religious communities are united under one identity, but if we look at places like Pakistan for example, there's such division and hatred amongst different ethnic groups(pakistan was formed due to religious unity, which creates friction and tension between different cultural peoples).

I love how they blame the modern day turkish people to the ottomans, where Ataturk not only had cleansed his country from from such things, but also he have created a country where women are treated equally, all different peoples are united under one nationality rather than by religion, freedom of choice and etc. Turkey is ataturk country, not a land of sultans and harems or whatever.

[Borna]

Yea because everybody has to live up to your ideals. You consider yourself too significant while you're no more than an antisocial armchair warrior.

You barely grew out of puberty, you will realize certain things. And i have done for national movement in my country much more then you can comprehend. Even suffered from the law because of it.

[Kemalisté]

You barely grew out of puberty, you will realize certain things. And i have done for national movement in my country much more then you can comprehend. Even suffered from the law because of it.

And look at all the fucks I give.

[portusaus]

I hope you end up in a gay prison. I believe in natural justice.

"Natural justice"? By 'natural justice', faggotish behavior would be punished by the refusal to provide any food or water.

[Kemalisté]

Secularism is the key to prosperity and success of the nation and people. I dont know why this troller here says otherwise, but she hasn't looked at the islamic countries on how bad they are. In Syria, before the civil war by the foreign backed terrorists, all religious communities are united under one identity, but if we look at places like Pakistan for example, there's such division and hatred amongst different ethnic groups(pakistan was formed due to religious unity, which creates friction and tension between different cultural peoples).

I love how they blame the modern day turkish people to the ottomans, where Ataturk not only had cleansed his country from from such things, but also he have created a country where women are treated equally, all different peoples are united under one nationality rather than by religion, freedom of choice and etc. Turkey is ataturk country, not a land of sultans and harems or whatever.

Qatar and Saudi Arabia are the only responsible ones for what's going on in the region. Of course, Erdogan too, but these two oil kings hire international jihadists and provide them with all kinds of arm and equipment. Syria is a secular country and doesn't deserve this.

[Kemalisté]

"Natural justice"? By 'natural justice', faggotish behavior would be punished by the refusal to provide any food or water.

By natural miracle; you were born out of your dad's masturbation tissue by your own effort.

[Kamal900]

Qatar and Saudi Arabia are the only responsible ones for what's going on in the region. Of course, Erdogan too, but these two oil kings hire international jihadists and provide them with all kinds of arm and equipment. Syria is a secular country and doesn't deserve this.

Of course, my brother, an average turk in turkey is secular, and they support Bashar against the Wahabi and Salafi terrorists that are bombing Syria. America under the Obama administration also are supporting the terrorists to kick Bashar from power, and turn the country into another Afghanistan. Qatar and Saudi Arabia are indeed trying to islamifiy countries they believe are heretical(Syria is secular, which they wanted to turn the country into a breeding ground of Islamist terrorists).

[Kemalisté]

Of course, my brother, an average turk in turkey is secular, and they support Bashar against the Wahabi and Salafi terrorists that are bombing Syria. America under the Obama administration also are supporting the terrorists to kick Bashar from power, and turn the country into another Afghanistan. Qatar and Saudi Arabia are indeed trying to islamifiy countries they believe are heretical(Syria is secular, which they wanted to turn the country into a breeding ground of Islamist terrorists).

Obama administration seems to have gone for some revision concerning the region. They're not sweeping down on Assad anymore as they did a year ago, cause they accepted the reality Assad has a major popular support inside and they're planning to make up with him.

[Kamal900]

Obama administration seems to have gone for some revision concerning the region. They're not sweeping down on Assad anymore as they did a year ago, cause they accepted the reality Assad has a major popular support inside and they're planning to make up with him.

I sure hope so. As for the guy, portusaus, he seems to enjoy trolling peoples he dosent like. Dont get that drug crazed bastard get to you or anything, he's not worth your time and energy.

[StonyArabia]

Don't care what they do.

[Rojava]

They hold hands, girls wear knee-length skirts, couples even kiss in public

That's a good thing

[PlanA]

Asalamowalekum

I'm a Muslim American myself, and I went to Istanbul a few years ago. I was deeply hurted by watching the westernization in the country. In fact, they are even more westernized than MOST Muslim Americans. They hold hands, girls wear knee-length skirts, couples even kiss in public, and gay parades. What's wrong with my Muslim brothers and sisters?

Turkey has one of the world's most beautiful culture, heritage, music, literature and especially art. Please do not be westernized. Turkish nationalists: do you think your country should go through an Islamic revolution like Iran?

Iran 1970s
48803

Iran today
48804

No.

[Dandelion]

Not sure if troll or not, especially after posting a picture from the '70s showing studying women and a picture of Iran today (sure most graduates are still female actually, efforts are made to restrain this).

[meralodem]

wtf...turkeys econiomic development started only when secularists where removed
Exactly! Because this secularism thing wasn't a national choice, it was a thing to destroy Ottoman to millions of pieces plus to start a constant war between so called secularists and islamists though in life people just get along really well, they think it is ok to topple down ELECTED Erdoğan because they constantly show us İran or Saudi Arabia and how un-free their people are. Erdoğan is supported by Armenian church, helped a lot the Asyrrian church and doing lot of stuff for Alevis like giving salary to their '' dede ''s and sending them to religious trips in Irak&Iran. We are not backwards than the West cause we are muslim, we are backwards cause we are still being exploited!!! As an atheist I am completely for Erdoğan and this stupid '' islamic '' label is irritating, yeah he let Turkish women to enter universities or have jobs while using their headscarves and that was a human right so called '' leftists '' ignored for years! Erdoğan is the real leftist by his actions and unshameful ones even call him '' fashist '' while they speak every kind of bullshit about Kürts and Arabs plus talking shit like he is Georgian so he is a traitor, enough with ths stupidity and I am disgusted by everyone who try to overbrush our image as western cause in their stupid peanut crust brains being non-western means primitive

[meralodem]

istanbull is muslim city and he is right saying there is no place for gays in turkey in general and istanbul particulary

Erdoğan is not anti-gay, he is in a fight against economic slavery of the whole region, the last thing he would like to fight against would be gays, actually with the laws he brought gays have more channels to seek their rights

[meralodem]

Spoken like someone who doesnt know Islam...Islam has always been anti-nationalist, not just in the 20th century...and when the caliphs were in Istanbu, calling what they practiced (Sunni Islam under the Hanbali madhhab), "Turkish Islam" is a ridicilous revisionism.

But still there is this Turkish İslam you cannot deny, in Ottoman time Arab islamic scholars were not allowed to take place in ulema or at least they used to fail because of language problems

[meralodem]

Turkey was aiding ISIS during their fight in Syria, i have personally seen pictures of a Bosnian Wahhabi in some terrorist camp or asylum on Turkish soil.
These secularist are probably minor force in Turkey.

Most foreign fighters use Turkey but it doesn't mean Turkey supports them as it is not written on their forehead that they are terrorists entering our country to pass illegally to Syria

[meralodem]

Hey my salafi brother! Realize Turkey is not European country, then we will discuss. In the mean time solve the differences with your Bosnian Balija brothers.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc5jcnrCmC4

Look how your brothers in Bosnia respect the Isis fighters! They even translate these birthday tunes!

Turkey has never had Salafism so you seriously pouring down shit from your shitty mouth, how wicked sex life your mother had to be able to shit you I really wonder and force a lot myself not to!

[meralodem]

Ahaha, we all know what kind of insults we hear from your "European" fellows here.

What happened mate? werent you the one defending euro values?!?! and talking shit about your own people because they were not euro enough?

[meralodem]

Those non-Muslim minorities only began to be treated as equal citizens as Muslims after the secularization period. The Ottoman system divided citizens into religious groups and treated them separately. The Republic brought them under one roof, one national identity.

Young Turks and the Committee of Union and Progress had a great support amongst Greeks and Jews. Young Turks overthrew the freak sultan Abdulhamid who were butchering non-Muslims and introduced the values of the French Revolution to the society. Viva la 1908 revolution!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Young_Turk_Revolution_-_Flayer_for_the_constitution.png

Ohh really? Thats why you put extra taxes on christians ( varlık vergisi ), took their properties which Erdoğan give back today in secular republic era? Greek families used to rule Balkan Orthodox nations, there were social and national consensuses before Young Turks, you foreign educated bastards only made other western powers be our non-muslim people's '' Büyük Abi '', you didnt talk to your armenian but about armenians you talked to the french, yeah some sucker sold out non-muslims also participated in that and dont you ever call our Sultan Abdulhamit '' freak '' he is not your kind!!! In his time we didnt lose an inch of our lands while after him you just looted everything we had!!!

[meralodem]

Very mature, however i will demonstrate my European cultural superiority and not insult your family members.

Do I need to tell you that you are just a little bunch of people who kept constantly butchering each other and today you have a very few and decaying population with a non-productive economy and in short time will face more ugliness and have no future at all, yeah keep hugging hard your '' european '' identity which feeds you enough

[Borna]

Who are u to decide who is european or not? Put your photo to classify section and let ta posters to decide whether you look like an arab or european ok? He says i m european then he is, i say i m middle eastern and so i am. As far as i remember u look like an arab.

Arab ? You should stop taking hallucinogens. I have been classified twice already.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?125148-Reclassify-Me

Northpontid+Baltid, i look as White Central European, on the other hand you are miserable ponny rider gypsy.

[Kemalisté]

Ohh really? Thats why you put extra taxes on christians ( varlık vergisi ), took their properties which Erdoğan give back today in secular republic era? Greek families used to rule Balkan Orthodox nations, there were social and national consensuses before Young Turks, you foreign educated bastards only made other western powers be our non-muslim people's '' Büyük Abi '', you didnt talk to your armenian but about armenians you talked to the french, yeah some sucker sold out non-muslims also participated in that and dont you ever call our Sultan Abdulhamit '' freak '' he is not your kind!!! In his time we didnt lose an inch of our lands while after him you just looted everything we had!!!

Just stop shitting posts out from your dirty ass, whore.

[Borna]

Turkey has never had Salafism so you seriously pouring down shit from your shitty mouth, how wicked sex life your mother had to be able to shit you I really wonder and force a lot myself not to!


Insulting my family members you Niqab four eyed scum is everything you can do.
I wonder is your clit circumcised ? I heard it became very popular in third world Muslim countries.

[meralodem]

turkey is secular only on paper right now...turkish government is building mosques...not only in turkey....turkish prime minister is openly propagating islamic beliefs

He was not to let that job to english puppet wahhabis or persian hizbullah, day after day they find some fake grand-child of prophet muhammet and try to use those figures to control muslims

[meralodem]

Secularism is the key to prosperity and success of the nation and people. I dont know why this troller here says otherwise, but she hasn't looked at the islamic countries on how bad they are. In Syria, before the civil war by the foreign backed terrorists, all religious communities are united under one identity, but if we look at places like Pakistan for example, there's such division and hatred amongst different ethnic groups(pakistan was formed due to religious unity, which creates friction and tension between different cultural peoples).

I love how they blame the modern day turkish people to the ottomans, where Ataturk not only had cleansed his country from from such things, but also he have created a country where women are treated equally, all different peoples are united under one nationality rather than by religion, freedom of choice and etc. Turkey is ataturk country, not a land of sultans and harems or whatever.

Yeah you think england is rich and safe because they are not muslim, it has no relation that they suck the wealth of the world by their speculations, created wars and banks!!!

[meralodem]

Of course, my brother, an average turk in turkey is secular, and they support Bashar against the Wahabi and Salafi terrorists that are bombing Syria. America under the Obama administration also are supporting the terrorists to kick Bashar from power, and turn the country into another Afghanistan. Qatar and Saudi Arabia are indeed trying to islamifiy countries they believe are heretical(Syria is secular, which they wanted to turn the country into a breeding ground of Islamist terrorists).

We do not support Bashar The Kasap!!! and the one you call brother is the one who contantly badmouths Arabs, enjoy your stupidity!

[Borna]

We do not support Bashar The Kasap!!! and the one you call brother is the one who contantly badmouths Arabs, enjoy your stupidity!

Your Bosnian brothers as well dont support Asad!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4t3VcYdnjE

Another birthday tune translated.


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02283/assadBdayCake_2283528k.jpg

But you will be swept by Syrian Lion!

[meralodem]

Just stop shitting posts out from your dirty ass, whore.

The furthest level of being argumentative in your standart LOL Uneducated scum

[Borna]

Just imagine when that blonde/blue eyed boy inherits Syria from Bashar the Great, what is going to happen to your Salafi brothers!

[meralodem]

Insulting my family members you Niqab four eyed scum is everything you can do.
I wonder is your clit circumcised ? I heard it became very popular in third world Muslim countries.

As I heard it is practised by christians in Tanzania alongside of stone-ironing the chests of teenage girls to not attract male attention, you are welcome :D

[Kemalisté]

The furthest level of being argumentative in your standart LOL Uneducated scum

Just stop spamming stupid virgin

[Borna]

As I heard it is practised by christians in Tanzania alongside of stone-ironing the chests of teenage girls to not attract male attention, you are welcome :D

Don't worry, you friends will tell you how does it feel to have sex and orgasm.
Circumsised Niqab whore.

[Kamal900]

We do not support Bashar The Kasap!!! and the one you call brother is the one who contantly badmouths Arabs, enjoy your stupidity!

In the past, we had some misunderstanding about each other, but soon after, we became friends. Are you a Turk? i dont believe you are.

[Kamal900]

Your Bosnian brothers as well dont support Asad!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4t3VcYdnjE

Another birthday tune translated.


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02283/assadBdayCake_2283528k.jpg

But you will be swept by Syrian Lion!

Habiby Ya Bashar al-Assad! kick the FSA really hard!

[meralodem]

Your Bosnian brothers as well dont support Asad!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4t3VcYdnjE

Another birthday tune translated.


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02283/assadBdayCake_2283528k.jpg

But you will be swept by Syrian Lion!

Actually we buy our energy from Iran and Russia which we dont like at all so we wanted to buy it from Qatar and were going to bring oil via Syria before Iran&Russia fucked it up there, Esad wont stay for long and at the same time we already invested in Azerbaijan oil and now putting more plans with Turkmenistan visa Caspian Sea plus connecting the iranian pipes and now we have the cheapest oil of kürts from north Iraq, we already became the energy hub, plus south cypriots do need us and they are being hammered by their big brothers day by day, by americans to work with Türks and by russians not to work with Türks, anyways, growing population, growing economy, of course growing gdp per capita and shrinking foreign trade deficit and huge infrastructure investments and being energy hub plus nuclear energy and stronger army with more turkish arms&weapons, controlling Yemen-Somalia sea trade routes, the region is gonna change and settle down, does the Ottoman smell suppresing the pussy smell over there? In Bosnia there are Türk, persian, wahabi supported people or institutions, your vid doesnt mean whole of Bosniacs are Esad sympathisers, I would guess there would be more Erdoğan lovers but since Erdoğan does not need any militia for terrorism it is not an easy thing for you to comprehend, with or without Syria we are already walking ahead towards our goals

[meralodem]

In the past, we had some misunderstanding about each other, but soon after, we became friends. Are you a Turk? i dont believe you are.

He was talking BS about Arabs while talking to non-Arabs, since you are a pathetic one you ended up with another one even on virtual ground ahaha, I am more Türk than your Kemaliste

[Kamal900]

He was talking BS about Arabs while talking to non-Arabs, since you are a pathetic one you ended up with another one even on virtual ground ahaha, I am more Türk than your Kemaliste

As i said, you dumbass, Kemaliste and I had disagreements and misunderstanding about each other and our worlds. But now, we are friends now, and no, im not a hateful jerk who keeps grudges on people you happen to disagree with. The Salafi and the Wahabi dogs will soon be purged from Syria, and back to to their caves in their respective countries.

[Borna]

your vid doesnt mean whole of Bosniacs are Esad sympathisers

That is anti Assad song. And most of Bosnian Mudslimes support Jihadists.
Dont worry Assad will get rid of your kind.

[Kemalisté]

Once again I apologize for every bad word I said about Arabs in the past. I didn't have a single Arab friend back then if you don't count Arab Allawites from Hatay and Latakia (Syria). If I've yet to say, my girlfriend is also from Latakia. I actually never referred to the whole Arab race but just a bunch of Selefis.

[LightHouse89]

The circumstances in Turkey are not the same as that in Iran. Iran was ruled by a dictatorship that was a puppet of the US while Turkey is democratic. Plus, things you've mentioned were all beginning in the Ottoman period, the post-Tanzimat era which took into shape today. I think Turkey should remain as it is politically.

How was the Shah that bad? He was a King at least I thought?

[LightHouse89]

He was talking BS about Arabs while talking to non-Arabs, since you are a pathetic one you ended up with another one even on virtual ground ahaha, I am more Türk than your Kemaliste

do you know how to do that turkish female dance? just wondering....dont mean to go off topic. :cool::p

[Kemalisté]

Thumbs down record for OP...

[Alphawolf]

Of course, my brother, an average turk in turkey is secular, and they support Bashar against the Wahabi and Salafi terrorists that are bombing Syria. America under the Obama administration also are supporting the terrorists to kick Bashar from power, and turn the country into another Afghanistan. Qatar and Saudi Arabia are indeed trying to islamifiy countries they believe are heretical(Syria is secular, which they wanted to turn the country into a breeding ground of Islamist terrorists).

You're way off. The majority of Turks do not support Assad. We know the dark chapter of this tyrant.

Back to 1990s:




Syria gave immense support to the PKK during the 1990s in an attempt to destabilize Turkey, with which its ties were strained over Syria’s claim to Hatay and the waters of the Euphrates. Apart from sheltering Abdullah Öcalan, the now-imprisoned leader of the PKK, who controlled the PKK from Damascus for years, Syria also allowed PKK terrorists to train in Syrian territory, from where they infiltrated Turkey to commit attacks.

The intelligence report, which was submitted to some government institutions, also states that the PKK body in Syria was much better organized than that in northern Iraq. It also says that the Democratic Union Party (PYD), the political offshoot of the PKK in Syria, has recently re-established strong ties with the PKK and launched a propaganda campaign against Turkey. It also added that the PKK elements in Syria have been in close cooperation to stop mass revolts against the al-Assad regime in northern Syria, particularly in Aleppo, whose residents have close ties with Turkey.

The mobility of some PKK groups has also been observed by the Iraqi Kurdistan Regional Government and this has appeared on the agenda of security meetings between Ankara and Arbil. Although Turkey has not yet officially raised this issue as a diplomatic problem with Syria, diplomatic sources said it could be on the agenda for the April 1 meeting of the Friends of Syria group.

[...]

[TIGERZZZ]

Asalamowalekum

I'm a Muslim American myself, and I went to Istanbul a few years ago. I was deeply hurted by watching the westernization in the country. In fact, they are even more westernized than MOST Muslim Americans. They hold hands, girls wear knee-length skirts, couples even kiss in public, and gay parades. What's wrong with my Muslim brothers and sisters?

Turkey has one of the world's most beautiful culture, heritage, music, literature and especially art. Please do not be westernized. Turkish nationalists: do you think your country should go through an Islamic revolution like Iran?

Iran 1970s
48803

Iran today
48804


America is no place for you.

[legolasbozo]

People tend to think if you are against asad, you should be isis supporter or vice versa. İ hate english lapdog saudis and salafi arabs so isis, but i also think assad is a tyran, a dictator. İt s very funny that people call Erdoğan as dictator but asad and his el muhabberat organization were kidnapping, killing anti-regime supporters but now he is fighting with isis (actually co-operating behind the doors) so he is being portrayed as saint.

[Partizan]

No, never.

Sharia is as non-Islamic as Period of Jahiliyyah. As a Turk, whom's ancestors presented Hajj Baktash Wali, Rumi and Yunus Emre to the World; I won't take the Umayyad(for Sunni) plague called as Sharia. Most of Sharia principles are based on non-Quranic shit. (Buhari and co.)

Atatürk did the best thing. As it says in Qu'ran, Secularism is the best way:

Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine.


How can such a religion who lets people free about religion can approve killing non-believers like ISIS or killing converts from Islam like Iranian government?

[DarkSecret]

Asalamowalekum

I'm a Muslim American myself, and I went to Istanbul a few years ago. I was deeply hurted by watching the westernization in the country. In fact, they are even more westernized than MOST Muslim Americans. They hold hands, girls wear knee-length skirts, couples even kiss in public, and gay parades. What's wrong with my Muslim brothers and sisters?

Turkey has one of the world's most beautiful culture, heritage, music, literature and especially art. Please do not be westernized. Turkish nationalists: do you think your country should go through an Islamic revolution like Iran?

Iran 1970s
48803

Iran today
48804

I had a muslim American teacher he always said why you are secular you shouldn't be or blah blah. Why all these "American Muslims" come to Turkey and try to found and islamic government? Are you a joke? This smells bad I would say! Go make sharia USA then!

[The.Mask]

What about Christians living in Turkey then ?

[DarkSecret]

No, never.

Sharia is as non-Islamic as Period of Jahiliyyah. As a Turk, whom's ancestors presented Hajj Baktash Wali, Rumi and Yunus Emre to the World; I won't take the Umayyad(for Sunni) plague called as Sharia. Most of Sharia principles are based on non-Quranic shit. (Buhari and co.)

Atatürk did the best thing. As it says in Qu'ran, Secularism is the best way:


How can such a religion who lets people free about religion can approve killing non-believers like ISIS or killing converts from Islam like Iranian government?

Sharia is not only killing people or something. Actually Quran orders sharia. It has the punishment ways for crimes and sins. So I think secular law does not accurate with Quran. Just saying.

[Feyenoord]

As a Turk, whom's ancestors presented Hajj Baktash Wali, Rumi and Yunus Emre to the World; I won't take the Umayyad(for Sunni) plague called as Sharia.

Haji Bektash Veli and Rumi were Persian, not Turkic.

[Partizan]

Sharia is not only killing people or something. Actually Quran orders sharia. It has the punishment ways for crimes and sins. So I think secular law does not accurate with Quran. Just saying.

Qu'ran does not order Sharia. There're some laws in Qu'ran but they're about advices and not "Fard", just like the law of inheritance.


Haji Bektash Veli and Rumi were Persian, not Turkic.

Hajj Baktash was definitely Turkic, don't believe in Wikipedia. All of his poems were written in Turkish. I can understand "Makalat" totally. He was a Turcoman from Khorasan.

About Mawlana, I thought he was Persian due to that he wrote his poems in Dari, he has such a poem:

"Bigane meğirid merâ zin kûyem.
Der kûy-u şuma hâne-i hod mîcuyem.
Düşmen neyem her çend ki düşmen rûyem.
Aslem Türkest eğerçi Hindû gûyem"

(Don't think that I am a foreigner in your district,
I am searching my home at your district.
Despite I look like a foe, I am a friend.
Despite I write in Indian, I am a Turk)

I guess he said "Indian" since Dari was a Lingua Franca in Northern India.

[Feyenoord]

Hajj Baktash was definitely Turkic, don't believe in Wikipedia. All of his poems were written in Turkish. I can understand "Makalat" totally. He was a Turcoman from Khorasan.

According to prominent sources he was Persian. Makalat was originally written in Arabic, and was only translated to Turkish by one of his students.


About Mawlana, I thought he was Persian due to that he wrote his poems in Dari, he has such a poem:

"Eğerçi Hürd Güuyem, aslem Türk est" (Despite I write in Indian, I am a Turk)

I guess he said "Indian" since Dari was a Lingua Franca in Northern India.

He never said that phrase; its made up. Rumi wrote all of his poems in Persian, was born into a Persian family and only migrated to Turkey due to the Mongols. He never made any claims of Turkish ancestry, and even wrote that he unfortunately can't speak Turkish.

[Partizan]

According to prominent sources he was Persian. Makalat was originally written in Arabic, and was only translated to Turkish by one of his students.

Not really, the sources which claim he was a Turkic saint who was a student of Ahmad-al Yesevi are rather prominent.


He never said that phrase; its made up. Rumi wrote all of his poems in Persian, was born into a Persian family and only migrated to Turkey due to the Mongols.

I quoted full of it above. Rumi was from Afghanistan, where Turkic people also exists.

[Feyenoord]

Not really, the sources which claim he was a Turkic saint who was a student of Ahmad-al Yesevi are rather prominent.

The same count for the sources which claim that he was Persian.


I quoted full of it above. Rumi was from Afghanistan, where Turkic people also exists.

Could you provide a source for that quote? A prominent source, and not a Turkic source.

When Rumi lived there was no such thing as Afghanistan. Afghanistan is pretty much an Iranic area, and still a significant portion of the Afghan population is Persian. Rumi was one as well; he wrote all of his poems in Persian.

[DarkSecret]

Qu'ran does not order Sharia. There're some laws in Qu'ran but they're about advices and not "Fard", just like the law of inheritance.

Cool story... And human invention laws are better than Allah's advices? Also there are straight orders too like about thieves.

[Partizan]

The same count for the sources which claim that he was Persian.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=H5cQH17-HnMC&pg=PA113&dq=Haji+Bektash+Veli+Turkish%7CPersian&hl=en&ei=0ASlTobgBJSv8QOi5v38BQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CE8Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=Turkish&f=false

"The fact that he wrote most of his works in Turkish..."


Could you provide a source for that quote? A prominent source, and not a Turkic source.

I recall reading it in Diwan-al Qabir.


When Rumi lived there was no such thing as Afghanistan. Afghanistan is pretty much an Iranic area, and still a significant portion of the Afghan population is Persian. Rumi was one as well; he wrote all of his poems in Persian.

Also Balkh is in Uzbek and Turkmen border, afaik Uzbeks and Turkmens still exist there.

[Feyenoord]

I recall reading it in Diwan-al Qabir.



Also Balkh is in Uzbek and Turkmen border, afaik Uzbeks and Turkmens still exist there.

I googled that supposed phrase of Rumi and I only saw some Turkish Facebook pages. In fact, the phrase is made up by Turkish nationalists who can't accept that Rumi was Persian, wrote most of his works in Persian and was born into a Persian area, with a majority of the population being Persian.

[Partizan]

Cool story... And human invention laws are better than Allah's advices?

In there, Qu'ran refers to tribal laws of Quraish. If you've ever read any books of Yaşar Nuri Öztürk, you can see democracy and secularism doesn't contrast with Islam.


Also there are straight orders too like about thieves.

Except certain orders like belief in God, prophets, angels, fate and practicing the rituals like salah and fasting; nothing is "Fard". Qu'ran is a book which "swears on the time". Therefore, Islam can be intrepreted by time.

(Al-Asr)


1. By the essence of all time.

2. Verily, all humankind is in deep loss.

3. Except those who believed (in the oneness of Allah) and performed good work and reminded each other of the truth and reminded each other to be patient.

[meralodem]

Haji Bektash Veli and Rumi were Persian, not Turkic.

Hacı Bektaş is Turkish and fuck off gypsy!

[meralodem]

When Rumi lived there was no such thing as Afghanistan. Afghanistan is pretty much an Iranic area, and still a significant portion of the Afghan population is Persian. Rumi was one as well; he wrote all of his poems in Persian.

1/3 of Afghanistan is Turkic who mostly speak persian as a first or second language! Plus if you exclude the Pashtuns it is hard to call Afghanistan a persian country!

[Borna]

You will pray to allahsnackbar when i chain you up and send your filthy family members to Sudanese friend.

[Feyenoord]

Hacı Bektaş is Turkish and fuck off gypsy!

Only in your dreams. Turks are infamous for falsely claiming innovations or important figures of other people. Fact is that you backward yurt-people were civilized due to Persian knowledge, and both Rumi and Bekhtas are Persian.

[Petros Houhoulis]

how rude

That's right, right, don't go to Saudi Arabia, go to Bosnia-eternally fucked up-Herzegovina...

[BRITGOLDING]

key is a very succesful MUSLIM MIDDLE EASTERN country

[Ryujin]

Turkish Constitution - Article 2

" The Republic of Turkey is a democratic, secular and social state governed by rule of law, within the notions of public peace, national solidarity and justice, respecting human rights, loyal to the nationalism of Atatürk, and based on the fundamental tenets set forth in the preamble."

Fuck off, shithead.

[DarkSecret]

Ebeninkinden geçmeli köpek.