Brazilian triracial DNA ( Demographic Autosomal study )

[ButlerKing]

THE BRAZILIAN RACE IS UNIQUE AND INTERESTING. Their European ancestry is derived mainly from Portugal who are themselves South Europeans. Their African DNA came from West African DNA, and their Native American DNA came from Brazilian tribes.


Every Brazilian today is a mixture of 3 races. Native American, African, European.
But all in different proportion.


http://i44.tinypic.com/29lil3b.jpg



North Brazilians = 29.6% to 37.8% Native American + 16.3% to 16.8% African + 45.9% to 53.7% European



Northeast Brazilians = 15.3% to 18.7% Native American + 26.6% to 27.9% African + 54.7% to 56.8% European


Central Brazilians = 15.3% Native American + 25.9% African + 58.8% European


Southeast Brazilians = 11.3% to 13.7% Native American + 13.4% to 31.1% African + 55.2% to 74.1% European


South Brazilians = 8.9% to 13% Native American + 14% to 17.5% African + 71% to 79.7% European

[ButlerKing]

The percentage of Brazilians who identifies themselves as White Brazilians are 91,051,646 or
47.73% of the Brazilian population.

Demographic and genetics of white brazilians

" A comprehensive study presented by the Brazilian Journal of Medical and Biological Research found that on average, white Brazilians are (>70%) European.[4] Another autosomal study carried out by the geneticist Sergio Pena showed that the overwhelming ancestry of "white" Brazilians is European, but there is Native American and African ancestries as well (an average of 80% European ancestry).[4][5] "

However even the South Brazilians are only 71% to 79.7% European, and many other who identifies as White Brazilian only because they can pass as white but their parents are maybe only 60-65% Europeans in other regions of Brazil.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/Brancos_no_Brasil.png

[Isleño]

There is a thread on here that show many white Brazilians 23andme results with hardly any Native American/African, and also some with small amounts. I think the Sergio Pena study is closer to the truth, but the others seem to be exaggerated.

Here's the thread, go look at all the 23andme results. 90%+ Euro for many of them.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?127989-Brazilian-23andme-results!&highlight=brazilian+23andme

[ButlerKing]

Self identified White Brazilians


mtDNA = Native American/Asian 29% , African 32%, European 39%

Y-DNA = Native American/Asian 3.5%, African 0%, European 96.5%

By the way Native American/ Asian in this chart does include only Native American but also Chinese Cantonese traders, male migrants, coolies who had married with Latin American women because about more than 500,000 Cantonese males did migrate to Latin America. For example 0.5% O2a in African American, O2a 1.5% in Cubans, 3.5% O3 in on mexican region.

Genetically speaking Native American are as different to Asians as Middle easterners are different to Europeans. Even more so Native American are Asian in DNA but have genetically isolated from Asia as well.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/2011/01/blackwhite.png

[ButlerKing]

There is a thread on here that show many white Brazilians 23andme results with hardly any Native American/African, and also some with small amounts. I think the Sergio Pena study is closer to the truth, but the others seem to be exaggerated.

Here's the thread, go look at all the 23andme results. 90%+ Euro for many of them.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?127989-Brazilian-23andme-results!&highlight=brazilian+23andme



There are two types of white Brazilians. The ones who scored only 70% European and the ones that scores 80% and more than 90%.

[Mortimer]

interestingly being triracial doesnt neccessarily make you more tolerant one brasilian exchange student (from phenotype i would guess pardo) called me "illegal immigrant" (im austrian citizen btw) it was back in school. but we became friends with time, he was a protestant and we discussed the bible

[ButlerKing]

interestingly being triracial doesnt neccessarily make you more tolerant one brasilian exchange student (from phenotype i would guess pardo) called me "illegal immigrant" (im austrian citizen btw) it was back in school. but we became friends with time, he was a protestant and we discussed the bible



There is racial discrimination of Brazilians white against blacks. It is judged by appearance more than culture and behaviour. The average White brazilian and Black brazilians all have 10-35% mix blood


What surprised me is that Central Asians Kazakh, Kyrgyz discriminate against Turkmen, Uzbeks, Tajiks even though all of them are result of Mongolians armies invaders mixing the ancient Iranic Caucasoid and Turkic Caucasoid-Mongoloid.

[Isleño]

There are two types of white Brazilians. The ones who scored only 70% European and the ones that scores 80% and more than 90%.
Go check out the thread, most of the results are in the 90%+ range and 80%+ range. I wouldn't classify these people as triracials, but whites with minor admixture. They are all 23andme results.

[ButlerKing]

Go check out the thread, most of the results are in the 90%+ range and 80%+ range. I wouldn't classify these people as triracials, but whites with minor admixture. They are all 23andme results.


The result shows White Brazilians from eastern Brazil's province are 1/3 non-white to 1/4 non-white to 1/5 non-European white and in many cases 1/10 Non-white to 1/20 non-white.

Anyway I'm not convinced until all studies of white brazilians from different provinces have been carried out since their mtDNA are largerly non-white including a smaller percent of Y-DNA are also non-white.

[Damião de Góis]

Every Brazilian today is a mixture of 3 races. Native American, African, European.


Three triracials from Brazil, ButlerKing edition:

http://xuxa.globo.com/uploads/discos/destaque/Xuxa_solamente_para_bajitos.jpg

http://e1.365dm.com/13/10/800x600/Ramires_3019120.jpg?20131014174215

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-L28V-ygLtOU/Uj1xQx_NfGI/AAAAAAAAROw/j3AWn6dOoKI/s1600/zzzz.jpg

[Isleño]

The result shows White Brazilians from eastern Brazil's province are 1/3 non-white to 1/4 non-white to, 1/5 non-European white and in many cases 1/10 Non-white to 1/20 non-white.

Anyway I'm not convinced until all studies of white brazilians from different provinces have been carried out since their mtDNA are largerly non-european including a smaller percent of Y-DNA are also non-white.

But you know mtDNA and Y-Chr mean nothing. It'a all about the autosomal. 23andme is pretty accurate and if you go to that thread and look at those results, most have very little Amerind/African. There are about 25 results on that thread and are from all over Brazil. Of course there are some in the 70%+ range, but most seem to be 80-90%+. I think the study you spoke of by Sergio Pena is closer to the truth when quoting 80%+, but still not accurate as there are many 90%+ White Brazilians showing in 23andme. Did you go see the thread?

[ButlerKing]

But you know mtDNA and Y-Chr mean nothing. It'a all about the autosomal. 23andme is pretty accurate and if you go to that thread and look at those results, most have very little Amerind/African. There are about 25 results on that thread and are from all over Brazil. Of course there are some in the 70%+ range, but most seem to be 80-90%+. I think the study you spoke of by Sergio Pena is closer to the truth when quoting 80%+, but still not accurate as there are many 90%+ White Brazilians showing in 23andme. Did you go see the thread?

I saw the thread but location is only in few cities and province of east brazil and south brazil the number of white brazilians that lives there are in a small minority, white brazilians demographic are all over the Brazil and so obviously they would have different proportion of DNA which explains why some White brazilians are 1/3 to 1/5 non-white and many white brazilians are 9/10 white.

The need study for north and central white brazilians.

Look at the autosomal DNA study of White brazilians who self identified as white they are only 67.5% European surely these are White Brazilians from different locations.

Compared with American whites they would consider Brazilian white mix race

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/2011/01/blackwhite.png

[ButlerKing]

But you know mtDNA and Y-Chr mean nothing. It'a all about the autosomal. 23andme is pretty accurate and if you go to that thread and look at those results, most have very little Amerind/African. There are about 25 results on that thread and are from all over Brazil. Of course there are some in the 70%+ range, but most seem to be 80-90%+. I think the study you spoke of by Sergio Pena is closer to the truth when quoting 80%+, but still not accurate as there are many 90%+ White Brazilians showing in 23andme. Did you go see the thread?



Do you have any study of White brazilians from Central, North, and Northeast Brazil ?

I suspect non-european ancestry is even lower, because european ancestry seems stronger only in the south and southeast.

[curupira]

This study from 2011 aimed describing the composition of the country with samples from nearly all regions (almost 1000 samples), with "white", "pardo" and "black" samples according to their respective proportions. The samples came for the most part from blood donors (http://www.amigodoador.com.br/estatisticas.html), which for the most part belong to the poorest classes of Brazil, therefore socio-economic levels mirror somewhat the situation of Brazil, where most people belong to the lower strata of society.

It has found out what many already knew, that "whites", "pardos" and "blacks" generally have all three ancestral components, namely: European, SSA African and Native American ancestries in varying degrees.

The results could be within the ballpark; however many parts of Northeast Brazil, North Brazil, Southeast Brazil and Southern Brazil did not provide samples, so a grain of salt must be taken. Besides, not too many markers were tested, which may have skewed the results somewhat anyway, but not too much (I got the same results at 23andme which I got with their methodology, f.e, and from what I have seen their methodology works relatively fine on average, only with greater margins of error than one would get with many more markers).

The composition of Brazil:

http://i49.tinypic.com/bydlu.png

Some of the locations from where "whites", "pardos" and "blacks" were tested:

http://i50.tinypic.com/66lztk.png



The Genomic Ancestry of Individuals from Different Geographical Regions of Brazil Is More Uniform Than Expected

Estimates of the “total ancestry” of different regions of Brazil

Since both the census proportions of each color category and the trihybrid ancestry of Brazilians vary according to region, we decided to merge the two sets of data and estimate what we have called the “total ancestry” of a given region. This has the advantage of circumventing the different regional semantics of what it means “to be” White, Brown or Black. To calculate the total ancestry we simply multiply the proportions of a given ancestry in a given color category by the census proportion of that color category in the specific region to arrive at an ancestry estimation regardless of color.

In order to show how the calculation of the “total ancestry” was done, let us take the example of European ancestry in the North region (state of Pará) using the data from Table 2. In that state, White, Brown and Black individuals have average European ancestry of 0.782, 0.686 and. 0.524 respectively. Since for the state of Pará the census shows the relative proportions of the same three colors above as 0.210, 0.736 and 0.055, the weighted European ancestry, which is now independent of color, will be (0.782×0.210) + (0.686×0.736) + (0.524×0.055) = 0.697.

The “total ancestry” estimates thus calculated for all regions are shown in the rightmost column of Table 2. The calculation could not be performed for two of the samples, Ceará and Santa Catarina, because they lacked data on one or more color categories.

The results obtained showed that there is in fact a smaller level of variability between the different regions than had been observed in the census data of color categories or in the ancestry proportions of the different color classes (Fig. 1). In all regions studied the European ancestry surfaced as uniformly preponderant, with proportions of 69.7%, 60.6%, 73.7% and 77.7%, respectively (Table2). This suggests that the populations of different regions of Brazil are ancestrally more similar than previously realized.


Total ancestries

To eschew the use of color categories we decided to try to estimate the general ancestry proportions of the different regional samples independent of color categories. To do that, we multiplied the proportions of a given ancestry in a given color category by the census proportion of that color category in the specific region, to arrive at ancestry estimation independent of color. Once such a correction was performed on the basis of the relative proportion of Amerindian, European and African ancestries, there emerged a higher level of uniformity than expected. In all regions studied the European ancestry was predominant, with proportions being ranging from 60.6% in the Northeast to 77.7% in the South (Figure 3). The African proportion was highest in the Northeast (30.3%), followed in decreasing order by the Southeast (18.9%), South (12.7%), and North (10.9%). On the other hand, the Amerindian proportion was highest in the North (19.4%), while relatively uniform in the other three other regions.

This is novel genetic information about the Brazilian people that needs to be placed on a historical and phylogeographical context. First, we will compare them with our previous observations with uniparental genetic markers in Brazilians.

We earlier examined DNA polymorphisms in the non-recombining portion of the Y-chromosome and in the hypervariable region of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) in the four main regions of the Country (the same four regions analyzed in the present paper, although with samplings from different states). The vast majority of Y-chromosomes, independent of the region, proved to be of European origin [17], [18]. Studies of mtDNA revealed a different reality: considering Brazil as a whole, 33%, 39% and 28% of matrilineages were of Amerindian, European and African origin, respectively [7]. Significantly, the frequency of mtDNA ancestries varied a lot in different regions: most matrilineal lineages in the Amazonian region had Amerindian origin (54%), while African ancestry was preponderant in the Northeast (44%) and European haplogroups were prevalent in the South (66%). These data have since been amply confirmed by other studies [8]. Together, they configured a picture of strong directional mating between European males and Amerindian and African females, which agrees perfectly with the known history of the peopling of Brazil since 1500 [8].

The proportions of Amerindian and African maternal ancestry were higher in the previous investigation using mtDNA than in the regional total ancestry averages calculated in the present study using biparental markers. However, it is interesting to note that both studies agree in that the highest level of Amerindian ancestry could be found in the North region (54% for mtDNA; 19.4% in the present study) and the highest level of African ancestry belonged to the Northeast region (44% for mtDNA; 30.3% in the present study), exactly as expected from known historical and anthropological studies of Brazilians [19].

A unifying proposal

As mentioned previously, Brazil is the home of genetically heterogeneous people, the product of five centuries of admixture between Amerindians, Europeans and Africans. However, such admixture has occurred in a sexually asymmetric fashion, as a result of the colonization model employed by the Portuguese. Indeed, we know that few women came from Portugal to Brazil in the period from the arrival of the Europeans in 1500 until 1808, when the Portuguese Court fled the Napoleonic invasion of the Iberian Peninsula and relocated to Rio de Janeiro [20]. That means that the Brazilian population was primarily formed by male Portuguese and female native Amerindian and enslaved Africans.

Initially, the whole population was composed by the indigenous Amerindians. Little is known about their number when the Portuguese arrived in 1500 [21], although a figure often cited is that of 2.5 million individuals [21]. From 1500 to 1808, it is estimated that about 500,000 Portuguese colonizers, almost exclusively men, came to Brazil [20], admixing extensively with the Amerindian women. Thus, we can expect that the first generation of Brazilians genomically had 50% Amerindian and European ancestry, but 100% Amerindian mtDNA. Further generations of admixture with the Portuguese lead to progressive “europeanization” of genomic ancestry, while maintaining an elevated proportion of Amerindian mtDNA.

The slave traffic started in the middle of the 16th century, extending until 1850 and resulting in the forced relocation of an estimated 4 million Africans to Brazil [21]. These three centuries were a period of intense interbreeding between European males and Amerindian and African women, which led to introgression of genomic African ancestry into Brazilians and also of African mtDNA, since the African contribution was primarily from females [7].

Let us take, as a generic example, the mating of a white European male with a Black African slave woman in Brazil. Because of the Brazilian social race identification system based primarily on phenotype, the children with dark skin pigmentation and other African iconic individual components of color would be considered Black, while those with light colored skin and other European iconic individual components of color would be considered White, even though they would have exactly the same proportion of African and European alleles [9]. Since in Brazil there also occurs assortative mating by color (as has indeed been revealed by demographic studies) [22], [23], in the hypothetical subsequent generation, the light-skinned individuals would tend to marry other Whites and conversely the dark-skinned individuals would marry Blacks. The long-term tendency would then be for this pattern to produce two distinct color groups, White and Black, which would, nonetheless, both have simultaneously a significant level of European and African ancestry.

It is relevant to notice that 1.72 million slaves (42.9% of the total) arrived in Brazil during the first half of the 19th century, a time by which the number of Amerindians in Brazil had dwindled due to strife and/or European-borne disease. Most likely, the main contribution of Amerindians to the formation of the Brazilian people occurred in the first 2 or at most 3 centuries of its colonization, no longer being of high importance in the early 19th century, when larger and larger portions of Brazilians moved from rural areas to the cities. Since Africans (up until 1850) and Europeans (up until the 20th century) continued to arrive to Brazil and to participate in the gene pool, the Amerindian ancestry component was diluted across color-lines to the levels that we observe presently, but without losing its mtDNA representativity because of the sexual asymmetry of the relationships. The resulting highly admixed Brazilian population can be assessed by the proportions of the color categories in first Brazilian census in 1872, which was 19.7% Black, 42.2% Brown and 38.1% White.

In 1850, the forced arrival of Africans stopped due to prohibition of the slave trade. At the same time the Government started a campaign to stimulate the immigration of Europeans to Brazil. This process, which has been denominated the “Whitening of Brazil” had complex economic and sociological causes, and was tinged with racist ideology [24]–[27]. In the approximately one hundred year period 1872–1975, Brazil received 5,435,735 million immigrants from Europe and the Middle East [21]. These were, in decreasing percentages, 34% Italians, 29% Portuguese, 14% Spanish, 5% Japanese, 4% Germans, 2% Lebanese and Syrians and 12% others [21].

This huge demographic event is probably responsible for the noteworthy dissipation of previously established regional differences in ancestries, as the European component of ancestry became uniformly preponderant, with similar proportions of 69.7%, 60.6%, 73.7% and 77.7% in the North, Northeast, Southeast and South, respectively.

How to explain why no similar wash-out occurred in respect to the matrilineal ancestry? We believe that the regional disparities in mtDNA ancestry were maintained because, once again, in the immigratory wave of Europeans there was a significant excess of males. When they admixed with the Brazilian women there was rapid europeanization of the genomic ancestry, but preservation of the established matrilineal pattern. There is demographic information to corroborate this possibility. First, of 1,222,282 immigrants from all origins that arrived in the Port of Santos in the period 1908–1936 the sex ratio (males/females) was 1.76 [28]. Second. the two most abundant immigrants, Portuguese and Italians, had sex rations of 2.12 and 1.83, respectively. census data of 1910 showed concordant results: there were 1,138,582 foreigners in Brazil, with a male/female ratio of 1.74, while there were 22,275,595 Brazilians with an even sex ratio of 1.02 [29].
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0017063?imageURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0017063.g002

[curupira]

I'm going to post them with a few comments so that it may look more informative. My own score was ~95% european ancestry on speculative mode (with minor and equally split native american and african contributions), the vast majority of it Southern European (all or nearly all Iberian ancestry as far as I know and from what I can infer from my results, tracing back to the first settlers of Brazil; most of my ancestors - 31/32 - except for one, who was German, settled here in the 1500 to 1800 period). I consider my ancestry/score relatively interesting and informative, and it is on par with what I have seen Afrikaners f.e to score with the new tool. And I identify as a Brazilian only person and nothing else, by the way.

Although not an accurate representation of the entire spectrum of diversity of Brazil, the results are pretty informative. Brazil is very misrepresented abroad.

I was born to a very poor family, from very small towns from the interior of Brazil, with no recent european ancestry (on the contrary, the vast majority of my ancestors were living here before our independence), and yet as I said I scored like Afrikaners who lived under Apartheid and very much strong segregation tend to score. So have many other Brazilians. Most people forget ~75% of the SSA Africans imported to Brazil were males, with very short life expectancies. They had a large impact, but not to the point of making us look like what we are portrayed abroad. Besides, the native american population was not that large, taking into account our large territory.

On the older ancestry painting my score was 97% european (with minor and equally split native american and african contributions).

They're informative, though genetic studies would generally be better to cover the whole population.

Composition results of a Brazilian from Ceará and Pernambuco (Northeast Brazil):

http://www.qualddd.com/images/mapas/mapa-ceara.jpg
http://www.mochileiro.tur.br/pe%20mapa-pernambuco.jpg
http://i62.tinypic.com/2eqdjyh.jpg

Composition results of a Brazilian from the interior of Rio de Janeiro state:

http://www.duplipensar.net/images/geografia/mapa-rio-de-janeiro.jpg
http://i62.tinypic.com/1z556km.jpg

Composition results of a Brazilian from Rio de Janeiro city, the capital of Rio de Janeiro state:

http://www.duplipensar.net/images/geografia/mapa-rio-de-janeiro.jpg
http://i58.tinypic.com/2mpagyd.jpg

Composition results of another Brazilian from Rio de Janeiro city:

http://mochileiro.tur.br/SP%20mapa2.jpg
http://i58.tinypic.com/2nvfbz8.jpg

Composition results of a Brazilian from the interior of São Paulo state:

http://www.qualddd.com/images/mapas/mapa-sao-paulo.jpg
http://i59.tinypic.com/313gepg.jpg

Composition results of another Brazilian from the interior of São Paulo state:

http://www.qualddd.com/images/mapas/mapa-sao-paulo.jpg
http://i59.tinypic.com/2mcwu88.jpg

This is the result of a Brazilian from Paraná, Southern Brazil (these usually show up more recent european ancestry and from other sources other than Iberia):

http://www.qualddd.com/images/mapas/mapa-parana.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/34fm97c.jpg

[Isleño]

Do you have any study of White brazilians from Central, North, and Northeast Brazil ?

I suspect non-european ancestry is even lower, because european ancestry seems stronger only in the south and southeast.
Seems non-European ancestry is much lower in the south, southeast. Seems the closer you get to Uruguay. This explains where most of the 90%+ white Brazilians come from. I know the south was heavily European. North, northeast seems to have more of the 70%+ types, but not limited to them.

[curupira]

This is the result of a Brazilian from the interior of Rio Grande do Sul, Southern Brazil:

http://www.duplipensar.net/images/geografia/mapa-rio-grande-do-sul.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/2ytts1d.jpg

This is the result of a Brazilian from the interior of Piauí, Northeast Brazil:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/df/Brazil_State_Piaui.svg/350px-Brazil_State_Piaui.svg.png
http://i60.tinypic.com/2ia7nrp.jpg

This is the result of a Brazilian from the interior of Rio Grande do Norte, Northeast Brazil:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Brazil_State_RioGrandedoNorte.svg/350px-Brazil_State_RioGrandedoNorte.svg.png
http://i57.tinypic.com/157k9kh.jpg

This is the result of a Brazilian from Aracaju, capital of Sergipe, Northeast Brazil:

http://www.guiaviagem.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Mapa-de-Sergipe.-Wikip%C3%A9dia-Raphael-Lorenzeto-de-Abreu.png
http://i61.tinypic.com/fu9fyp.jpg

Results of a Brazilian from Bahia:

http://www.duplipensar.net/images/geografia/mapa-bahia.jpg
http://i59.tinypic.com/uaqa8.jpg

This is the result of a Brazilian from Recife, capital of Pernambuco, Northeast Brazil:

http://www.blogodisea.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/pernambuco-brasil.png
http://i57.tinypic.com/2ypbsid.jpg

[Isleño]

I saw the thread but location is only in few cities and province of east brazil and south brazil the number of white brazilians that lives there are in a small minority, white brazilians demographic are all over the Brazil and so obviously they would have different proportion of DNA which explains why some White brazilians are 1/3 to 1/5 non-white and many white brazilians are 9/10 white.

The need study for north and central white brazilians.

Look at the autosomal DNA study of White brazilians who self identified as white they are only 67.5% European surely these are White Brazilians from different locations.

Compared with American whites they would consider Brazilian white mix race

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/2011/01/blackwhite.png

Look at the 23andme samples Curupira just posted, almost all of them would be considered as white in the U.S., not mixed race. That's why I think these studies are exaggerated. It seems (thanks Curupira!) that the study came from the poorest classes that had the most admixture.

[curupira]

Composition results of a Brazilian from São Paulo state:

State of São Paulo:

http://www.duplipensar.net/images/geografia/mapa-sao-paulo.jpg

http://i62.tinypic.com/20hvfac.jpg

Results of a Brazilian who has more recent Italian ancestry, but also older ancestors in Brazil too, from São Paulo state:

State of São Paulo:

http://www.duplipensar.net/images/geografia/mapa-sao-paulo.jpg

http://i60.tinypic.com/11h574l.jpg

Composition results of a Brazilian from Minas Gerais:

Minas Gerais state:
http://www.qualddd.com/images/mapas/mapa-minas-gerais.jpg

http://i59.tinypic.com/lxqc2.jpg

Results of someone from Rio Grande do Sul, Southern Brazil:

http://www.duplipensar.net/images/geografia/mapa-rio-grande-do-sul.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/16jnhpf.jpg

Results of someone from Rio Grande do Sul, Southern Brazil (of XIX century German Brazilian background)

http://www.duplipensar.net/images/geografia/mapa-rio-grande-do-sul.jpg
http://i58.tinypic.com/2aje135.jpg

Results of a Brazilian from São Paulo state (interestingly, he has both Lebanese and Italian ancestries):

http://mochileiro.tur.br/SP%20mapa2.jpg
http://i62.tinypic.com/9u7l95.jpg

Results of a Brazilian from São Paulo state:
http://mochileiro.tur.br/SP%20mapa2.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/16c2h39.jpg

Results of a Brazilian from the state of Bahia:

http://www.mochileiro.tur.br/ba%20mapa-bahia.jpg
http://i58.tinypic.com/28cogp5.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Seems non-European ancestry is much lower in the south, southeast. Seems the closer you get to Uruguay. This explains where most of the 90%+ white Brazilians come from. I know the south was heavily European. North, northeast seems to have more of the 70%+ types, but not limited to them.


I suspect the purer white brazilians who have 90% European are from this:

"The period of the Great Immigration, between 1876 and 1930, brought to the country more than 5 million Europeans. Most were Italians or Portuguese, followed by Spaniards, Germans, Poles,[34] and Ukrainians. It is notable that most of these immigrants settled in Southern and Southeastern Brazil. "


White Brazilians who are only 67% to 79% European are result of older colonial europeans from 1700's, or maybe White brazilians today have mixed with the so called Caztizos and Mestizos which explains their predominately European DNA.

99.99% of Brazil's population today is not the result of European mixing with Amerindian and blacks but the result of Pardos themselves who are either meztizos, mullato, Caztizos, interbreed among themselves.

For example 100,000 Amerindian, African mixing with 300,000 European and later these mix races and European had interbreeded themselves in creating the Brazilian population today.

[curupira]

Look at the 23andme samples Curupira just posted, almost all of them would be considered as white in the U.S., not mixed race. That's why I think these studies are exaggerated. It seems (thanks Curupira!) that the study came from the poorest classes that had the most admixture.

They did not even mention where they took their samples from. The most african region of Brazil was estimated to be about 65% euro back in 1965, genetically. Modern autosomal studies yield about the same scores. Notice this is about the whose composition, with all categories included.


A study from 1965, "Methods of Analysis of a Hybrid Population" (''Human Biology'', vol 37, number 1), led by the geneticists D. F. Roberts e R. W. Hiorns, found out the average the Northeastern Brazilian to be predominantly European in ancestry (65%), with minor but important African and Native American contributions (25% and 9%).

[ButlerKing]

Composition results of a Brazilian from São Paulo state:



Okay I saw all these results you posted. It seems the average is around 80-90%, with some being 68-77% and with some being 92-99.8%

I think that's enough to consider them mix race.

Because you see Turks are from 4.1 - 23% Mongoloid and 0.5 - 4.3% South Asian

http://i57.tinypic.com/a4wmyx.png


But anthropology still considers them a mixture of Mongoloid and Caucasoid

Anthropology

"

In 1882 Augustus Henry Keane said the Mongolic type included the following races: Tibetans, Burmese, Tai, Koreans, Japanese, Lu-Chu, Finno-Tatars and Malays.[148] Keane said the following peoples are mixed Mongolo-Caucasic varieties: Anatolian Turks, Uzbegs, and Tajiks of Turkestan.[148] Keane said the Kazaks are intermediate between the Túrki and Mongolian races.[148] Keane said the Mongolian race is best represented by the Buriats.[148] "

[curupira]

I suspect the purer white brazilians who have 90% European are from this:

"The period of the Great Immigration, between 1876 and 1930, brought to the country more than 5 million Europeans. Most were Italians or Portuguese, followed by Spaniards, Germans, Poles,[34] and Ukrainians. It is notable that most of these immigrants settled in Southern and.

Did you read what I said? 23andme shows that's not always the case. Many fully colonial Brazilians from Northeast and Minas Gerais (and elsewhere) score about 95% euro or more, on par with Afrikaner results. As I said, I did it, and I'm 31/32 colonial Brazilian who traces his ancestry back to the very first settlers of Brazil (~ 1500, when João Ramalho arrived!). I am also of poor rural background.

[curupira]

More results of a Brazilian from the state of São Paulo (a cousin of mine, and 1/4 Italian too):

http://mochileiro.tur.br/SP%20mapa2.jpg

http://i62.tinypic.com/dm2s1d.jpg

Interesting results of a Brazilian, both his yDNA and his mtDNA are specific of SSA africa! I haven't seen it with anyone else so far, in an otherwise highly non african background over 98% non african! His family comes from the following places in Brazil: Rio de Janeiro; Brasilia; São Paulo; and Belém in Pará. His yDNA haplogroup: E1b1a8a! His mtDNA haplogroup: L3e3b!

http://i59.tinypic.com/2qnnkhl.jpg

Results of a Brazilian from the states of Piauí and Ceará:

http://www.duplipensar.net/images/geografia/mapa-piaui.jpg
http://www.qualddd.com/images/mapas/mapa-ceara.jpg

http://i61.tinypic.com/10ghf2q.jpg

Results of a Brazilian from Minas Gerais:

The state of Minas Gerais:

http://www.minasgerais.com.br/wp-content/themes/portal-setur/images/mapa-sobre.jpg

http://i61.tinypic.com/316w7t2.jpg

Results of a Brazilian from the state of Bahia:

http://www.mochileiro.tur.br/ba%20mapa-bahia.jpg

http://i59.tinypic.com/rt298o.jpg

Results of a Brazilian from Pernambuco:

Pernambuco state:

http://comps.canstockphoto.com/can-stock-photo_csp9784266.jpg

http://i60.tinypic.com/2czf4ur.jpg

Results of a Brazilian from Paraná:

The state of Paraná:

http://www.duplipensar.net/images/geografia/mapa-parana.jpg

http://i60.tinypic.com/mifosm.jpg

Composition results of a Brazilian from Rio de Janeiro state, who also has more recent Lebanese ancestry:

Rio de Janeiro state:
http://www.quetalviajar.com/images/mapas/mapa-rio-de-janeiro.jpg

http://i62.tinypic.com/2yxjh44.jpg

[curupira]

A few more Brazilian results:

Composition results of a Brazilian (unknown location, and a cousin of mine; people of Japanese ancestry aren't really uncommon in certain places)

http://i58.tinypic.com/521l3r.jpg

Composition results of a Brazilian whose ancestry is from Rio de Janeiro, Pará (Northern Brazil), and also from Rio Grande do Norte and Ceará (Northeast Brazil):

http://i58.tinypic.com/scsu2e.jpg

Results of a Brazilian from Rio de Janeiro state:

Rio de Janeiro state:

http://www.quetalviajar.com/images/mapas/mapa-rio-de-janeiro.jpg

http://i61.tinypic.com/35c2weg.jpg

[curupira]

The study from 2011 also showed many "pardo" Brazilians to score ~65% and ~75% euro study . As I said, it aimed at describing the composition of the country with samples from nearly all regions (almost 1000 samples), with "white", "pardo" and "black" samples according to their respective proportions. The samples came for the most part from blood donors (http://www.amigodoador.com.br/estatisticas.html), which for the most part belong to the poorest classes of Brazil, therefore socio-economic levels mirror somewhat the situation of Brazil, where most people belong to the lower strata of society.



The total composition of Brazil:

http://i49.tinypic.com/bydlu.png

Notice the "pardo" scores:

http://i50.tinypic.com/66lztk.png



The Genomic Ancestry of Individuals from Different Geographical Regions of Brazil Is More Uniform Than Expected

Estimates of the “total ancestry” of different regions of Brazil

Since both the census proportions of each color category and the trihybrid ancestry of Brazilians vary according to region, we decided to merge the two sets of data and estimate what we have called the “total ancestry” of a given region. This has the advantage of circumventing the different regional semantics of what it means “to be” White, Brown or Black. To calculate the total ancestry we simply multiply the proportions of a given ancestry in a given color category by the census proportion of that color category in the specific region to arrive at an ancestry estimation regardless of color.

In order to show how the calculation of the “total ancestry” was done, let us take the example of European ancestry in the North region (state of Pará) using the data from Table 2. In that state, White, Brown and Black individuals have average European ancestry of 0.782, 0.686 and. 0.524 respectively. Since for the state of Pará the census shows the relative proportions of the same three colors above as 0.210, 0.736 and 0.055, the weighted European ancestry, which is now independent of color, will be (0.782×0.210) + (0.686×0.736) + (0.524×0.055) = 0.697.

The “total ancestry” estimates thus calculated for all regions are shown in the rightmost column of Table 2. The calculation could not be performed for two of the samples, Ceará and Santa Catarina, because they lacked data on one or more color categories.

The results obtained showed that there is in fact a smaller level of variability between the different regions than had been observed in the census data of color categories or in the ancestry proportions of the different color classes (Fig. 1). In all regions studied the European ancestry surfaced as uniformly preponderant, with proportions of 69.7%, 60.6%, 73.7% and 77.7%, respectively (Table2). This suggests that the populations of different regions of Brazil are ancestrally more similar than expected.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0017063?imageURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0017063.g002

[ButlerKing]

Did you read what I said? 23andme shows that's not always the case. Many fully colonial Brazilians from Northeast and Minas Gerais (and elsewhere) score about 95% euro or more, on par with Afrikaner results. As I said, I did it, and I'm 31/32 colonial Brazilian who traces his ancestry back to the very first settlers of Brazil (~ 1500, when João Ramalho arrived!).



Look at the Brazilian whites who call themselves white, they are from 2% non-white to 37% non-white

50% white brazilian 2% to 15% non-white

the other

50% white brazilian 15% to 37% non-white



http://oi57.tinypic.com/2eq9eki.jpg

[curupira]

( Most Brazilians today live in North Brazil )

North Brazil is the least population of Brazil! The most populated region is Southeast Brazil, where half of our population lives. A 1/4 of all Brazilians live in São Paulo state.

[curupira]

Look at the Brazilian whites who call themselves white, they are from 2% non-white to 37% non-white]

Sure, there is great variation. Self reported ancestry and actually ancestry do not always match. This is how many "pardo" Brazilians are in fact genetically quite predominantly euro too. "Pardo" Brazilians from Belém in Northern Brazil were found out to be 65% euro, and those in Fortaleza, 75% euro.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0017063?imageURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0017063.g002

[ButlerKing]

North Brazil is the least population of Brazil! The most populated region is Southeast Brazil, where half of our population lives. A 1/4 of all Brazilians live in São Paulo state.

Damn you're right, it seems most Brazilians live in Southeast.

I read a random comment about North Brazil having the most population and it's obviously wrong.

[Smaug]

This thread is bullshite, what is not surprising when we consider the fact it was opened by ButlerKing. "Brazilian" is not a race, is not an ethnicity, it is just and only a nationality. Brazilians can be anything: White, Black, Asian, Amerindian, Bi-Racial, Tri-Racial, etc. In the South and Southeast there are many Whites, who are really White and don't just "look" White.

[ButlerKing]

Sure, there is great variation. Self reported ancestry and actually ancestry do not always match. This is how many "pardo" Brazilians are in fact genetically quite predominantly euro too. "Pardo" Brazilians from Belém in Northern Brazil were found out to be 65% euro, and those in Fortaleza, 75% euro.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0017063?imageURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0017063.g002

Many Pardo family seems to look heavily white, both the parents and children. I though maybe they were Caztizos people ( who are mixture of European and Meztizos )

[ButlerKing]

This thread is bullshite, what is not surprising when we consider the fact it was opened by ButlerKing. "Brazilian" is not a race, is not an ethnicity, it is just and only a nationality. Brazilians can be anything: White, Black, Asian, Amerindian, Bi-Racial, Tri-Racial, etc. In the South and Southeast there are many Whites, who are really White and don't just "look" White.

All Brazilians are even the Asian-Japanese brazilians.

White Brazilians are from 2% to 37% non-white.

There is no pure white brazilian DNA, if there is than is very few and recent.

[Isleño]

Okay I saw all these results you posted. It seems the average is around 80-90%, with some being 68-77% and with some being 92-99.8%

I think that's enough to consider them mix race.

Because you see Turks are from 4.1 - 23% Mongoloid and 0.5 - 4.3% South Asian

http://i57.tinypic.com/a4wmyx.png


But anthropology still considers them a mixture of Mongoloid and Caucasoid

Anthropology

"

In 1882 Augustus Henry Keane said the Mongolic type included the following races: Tibetans, Burmese, Tai, Koreans, Japanese, Lu-Chu, Finno-Tatars and Malays.[148] Keane said the following peoples are mixed Mongolo-Caucasic varieties: Anatolian Turks, Uzbegs, and Tajiks of Turkestan.[148] Keane said the Kazaks are intermediate between the Túrki and Mongolian races.[148] Keane said the Mongolian race is best represented by the Buriats.[148] "
Actually that's incorrect. There were 33 results Curupira posted and 13 were above 90% European. That's almost half. 7 of them were between 80-90%, with two being 89.1%, which is still considered white on the 90% cusp. 5 were between 70-80% Euro. Two were 60-70% Euro. The rest was a few blacks and a Euro/Asian balanced mix.

So that means 15 (about half) of them would be seen as white, even in the U.S.. another 5 of them could be taken as white, but could also be taken as admixed, not really a "mixed race person" which is a person that shows high visual admixture in the phenotype. That would make 20 out of 30 that would be seen as white (stretching it with the 5 in the 80's). But actual people that would be for sure seen as white, even in the U.S., would be 15 out of 33. Almost half. So your figure seems incorrect. Most of the 23andme results presented here would be seen as white. Those that would not would be in the minority, whom you could compare to Turks.

People go by phenotype in society, not genetic results. Any person 90%+ would be seen as white for sure. Those in the mid to late 80's could also possibly be seen as white.

Most of the white American population of the U.S. is in the 90+ range. Some are in the late 80's. 2/3 of the 23andme results here would/could be seen as white in the U.S. I would reconsider the mixed race choice you considered for the majority.

[curupira]

You are not in a position to lecture, sorry. Having claimed North Brazil to be the most populated, when out of all of our regions, it is the least, only shows your (or lack thereof) familiarity with the topic.

Anyway, these two pic, coming from autosomal studies, describe the total composition of Brazil more reliably than free guesses:

2013 study:

http://i44.tinypic.com/29lil3b.jpg

2011 study:

http://i49.tinypic.com/bydlu.png


All Brazilians are even the Asianent.

[Smaug]

All Brazilians are even the Asian-Japanese brazilians.

White Brazilians are from 2% to 37% non-white.

There is no pure white brazilian DNA, if there is than is very few and recent.

Bullshite, there are many pure White Brazilians, I am one. These 23andMe results that show 98% European are actually full European, these "2%" is just noise.

[ButlerKing]

Bullshite, there are many pure White Brazilians, I am one. These 23andMe results that show 98% European are actually full European, these "2%" is just noise.


Those are few, the average White Brazilian are nowhere near 98%. I even suspect their not true Brazilians.


These 23andMe shows half can be over 90% and other half from 68-89%

[ButlerKing]

You are not in a position to lecture, sorry. Having claimed North Brazil to be the most populated, when out of all of our regions, only shows your (or lack thereof) familiarity with the topic.

Anyway, these two pic, coming from autosomal studies, describe the total composition of Brazil more reliably than free guesses:

2013 study:

http://i44.tinypic.com/29lil3b.jpg

2011 study:

http://i49.tinypic.com/bydlu.png


That was only a small mistake but I wasn't wrong about DNA study.What matters most is DNA studies and different parts of Brazil clearly have different DNA and none are pure ( which was the point of my thread )



IS VERY CLEAR, many white brazilians are caztizos but the problem is they just look white.


Many of these "Pardos" look as white as full blooded europeans but the strange thing is they don't identify with European. The same for most of these Caztizos who are mixture of Meztizo and European. One look at them and you might not even call them South Americans but European.

Mexicans for example are from 30% to 70% Amerindians + 30% to 70% European. For example half white / half mexican look as white as any pure european but this doesn't mean they would identify as white

http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo272/Jlynn2o-cle-/064-1.jpg

Mexican dad and white american mother

http://ugc-01.cafemomstatic.com/gen/constrain/500/500/80/2011/05/21/11/8l/os/porqf1wf0gii3j.jpg?imageId=21542736



Mariah Carey calls herself black even though she is only 1/4 Black and 3/4 white , they call her quadroon, but she looks hella white.

http://www.nndb.com/people/115/000023046/mariah-carey.jpg
http://nex1.tv/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/mariah-carey2.jpg
http://i1.tribune.com.pk/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/494920-MariahCareyphotofile-1358351487-472-640x480.JPG

[Smaug]

Those are few, the average White Brazilian are nowhere near 98%. I even suspect their not true Brazilians.


These 23andMe shows half can be over 90% and other half from 68-89%

I am sorry, I forgot you are the expert in Brazil here. You are the one who said most Brazilians live in the North. You do know what you are talking about.

[Smaug]

That was only a small mistake but I wasn't wrong about DNA study.What matters most is DNA studies and different parts of Brazil clearly have different DNA and none are pure ( which was the point of my thread )



IS VERY CLEAR, many white brazilians are caztizos but the problem is they just look white.


Many of these "Pardos" look as white as full blooded europeans but the strange thing is they don't identify with European. The same for most of these Caztizos who are mixture of Meztizo and European. One look at them and you might not even call them South Americans but European.

Mexicans for example are from 30% to 70% Amerindians + 30% to 70% European. For example half white / half mexican look as white as any pure european but this doesn't mean they would identify as white

http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo272/Jlynn2o-cle-/064-1.jpg

Mexican dad and white american mother

http://ugc-01.cafemomstatic.com/gen/constrain/500/500/80/2011/05/21/11/8l/os/porqf1wf0gii3j.jpg?imageId=21542736



Mariah Carey calls herself black even though she is only 1/4 Black and 3/4 white , they call her quadroon, but she looks hella white.

http://www.nndb.com/people/115/000023046/mariah-carey.jpg
http://nex1.tv/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/mariah-carey2.jpg
http://i1.tribune.com.pk/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/494920-MariahCareyphotofile-1358351487-472-640x480.JPG

Perhaps in your native Pakistan Mariah Carey could pass as White, but she looks obviously mixed with black.

[ButlerKing]

I am sorry, I forgot you are the expert in Brazil here. You are the one who said most Brazilians live in the North. You do know what you are talking about.

Can we please forget the comment I said that most Brazilians lived in north Brazil:picard1: ( I admit I made a small mistake) . At least I wasn't wrong about my genetic studies which was the point I wanted to make on my thread.


Anyway Brazilians White are both White and White pardos. But pure white brazilians are few or in a miniroty, let's no deny that. Almost every White brazilian have Native American and African DNA in them.

[Smaug]

Can we please forget the comment I said that most Brazilians lived in north Brazil:picard1: ( I admit I made a small mistake) . At least I wasn't wrong about my genetic studies which was the point I wanted to make on my thread.


Anyway Brazilians White are both White and White pardos. But pure white brazilians are few or in a miniroty, let's no deny that. Almost every White brazilian have Native American and African DNA in them.

I am sorry, but that's simply not true.

/thread

[ButlerKing]

Perhaps in your native Pakistan Mariah Carey could pass as White, but she looks obviously mixed with black.


Uh, I think you should read forums or thread made of Mariah Carey, many will say looks nothing like black, or she looks white or she looks much more white than black.

She look nowhere as black as Obama.

The only thing that looked black about her was her hair but than many pure white have curlier hair than this. She looks even more whiter before she started tanning herself and dying her hair blonde. Maybe she's a Beyonce wannabe.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_-bTg0SlDM7E/TRoVTFOj00I/AAAAAAAAEDE/x5czCQraSdk/s1600/mariah-carey8.jpg

[ButlerKing]

I am sorry, but that's simply not true.

/thread



Dude, this study had clearly shown White brazilians have a variance of DNA ranging from 98% white to as low as 67% white. There is nothing wrong with Brazilians white having some admixture, it makes Brazilians white exotics.

Brazilians white = Triracial whites ( Whites who have some, to small to very slight non-white DNA)

http://oi57.tinypic.com/2eq9eki.jpg

[Dictator]

OMG BUTLERKING
you are GENIUS
YOU KNOW THINGS THAT NO ONE IN MY COUNTRY KNOWS
YOU ARE SIMPLY A BEACON OF BRAZILIAN KNOWLEDGE
:loco:

[Smaug]

Dude, this study had clearly shown White brazilians have a variance of DNA ranging from 98% white to as low as 67% white. There is nothing wrong with Brazilians white having some admixture, it makes Brazilians white exotics.

Brazilians white = Triracial whites ( Whites who have some, to small to very slight non-white DNA)

http://oi57.tinypic.com/2eq9eki.jpg

You know nothing about Brazil. All my white friends know who their ancestors were and can trace all their ancestry back to Europe. How would you explain that?

[ButlerKing]

You know nothing about Brazil. All my white friends know who their ancestors were and can trace all their ancestry back to Europe. How would you explain that?


I know what the DNA study says. The study you showed are but a few individual picked Brazilians.

Show me a autosomal DNA study with huge large number of samples (like the ones I posted ) where it shows most White brazilans are over 90% white or 95-99% white.

[Smaug]

I know the DNA study says. The study you showed are but a few individual picked Brazilians.

Show me a autosomal DNA study with huge large number of samples (like the ones I posted ) where it shows most White brazilans are over 90% white or 95-99% white.

Curupira posted many in this thread.

[Dictator]

Curupira posted many in this thread.

I'm not under 90% so I must be non-Brazilian. :(

[Smaug]

I'm not under 90% so I must be non-Brazilian. :(

I am 100% European, I should be deported back to Europe.

[ButlerKing]

Curupira posted many in this thread.

But those are just individually picked samples. Post me a authentic scientific study

[Dictator]

I am 100% European, I should be deported back to Europe.

Yes you should go away you filthy immigrant :mad:

[Smaug]

But those are just individually picked samples. Post me a authentic scientific study

They are scientific studies.

[ButlerKing]

They are scientific studies.



But those are individually people he himself knows. He studied only 1 or 2 of them, and some showed 70% European others shows 77%, 80%, 85% 98% European Why doesn't he pick a group of 10 people from every city and province than we can see the average DNA.


I'm sure the 98% European he picked could have been just luck, some white Brazilian from the same area would have only 70-80% European only.

[Dictator]

Butlerking, I'm starting to think that you are trying to blackwash Brazil so you can be considered white here. Sorry, you wouldn't. Brown indian people aren't white.

[Smaug]

But those are individually people he himself knows. He studied only 1 or 2 of them, and some showed 70% European others shows 77%, 80%, 85% 98% European Why doesn't he pick a group of 10 people from every city and province than we can see the average DNA.


I'm sure show the 98% European he picked could have been just like, some white Brazilian would have only 70-80% European only.

The study you posted picked people from all ethnicities, so of course the results came up as mixed.

[ButlerKing]

The study you posted picked people from all ethnicities, so of course the results came up as mixed.



Dude, stop thumbing me down or I will stop replying :picard2:


That study is not from all ethnicities. They are all " White " Brazilians.


No Black or Asian brazilians have more than 50% white :picard1::picard1: and even Pardos were not included although many are just as white.


It is the DNA study of White Brazilians in wikipedia that says this not me

"


From your own wikpedia

" A comprehensive study presented by the Brazilian Journal of Medical and Biological Research found that on average, white Brazilians are (>70%) European.[4] Another autosomal study carried out by the geneticist Sergio Pena showed that the overwhelming ancestry of "white" Brazilians is European, but there is Native American and African ancestries as well (an average of 80% European ancestry).[4][5] "

[curupira]

But those are individually people he himself knows. He studied only 1 or 2 of them, and some showed 70% European others shows 77%, 80%, 85% 98% European Why doesn't he pick a group of 10 people from every city and province[B] than we can see the average

I posted random results from all over Brazil, from several different states. Get an account on 23andme and see it for yourself.

[curupira]

As I said, you are not in a position to lecture, sorry. Having claimed North Brazil to be the most populated, when out of all of our regions, it is the least, only shows your (or lack thereof) familiarity with the topic.

Anyway, these two pic, coming from autosomal studies, describe the total composition of Brazil more reliably than free guesses (including "white", "pardo" and "black" Brazilians):

2013 study:

http://i44.tinypic.com/29lil3b.jpg

2011 study:

http://i49.tinypic.com/bydlu.png


All Brazilians are even the Asianent.


Dude, stop thumbing me down or I will stop replying :picard2:

That study is not from all ethnicities. They are all " White " Brazilians.

No Black or Asian brazilians have more than 50% white :picard1::picard1: and even Pardos were not included although many are just as white.

[B]It is the DNA study of White Brazilians in wikipedia that says this not me

[ButlerKing]

Butlerking, I'm starting to think that you are trying to blackwash Brazil so you can be considered white here. Sorry, you wouldn't. Brown indian people aren't white.

Indians are not European white, Brazilians white are much whiter but many Punjabis look white.

Mind you many Northwest Indian can pass for atypical white in South Europe even in West Europe especially in places like Lebanon, Cyprus, Turkey, Armenia, Georgia no problem.


Some Punjabi look so white ( I say 7-15% or more than 8 million can pass )


Blue/green eyes is rare in Punjab region but many have very light skin tone and similar facial structure with these faces.

http://i34.tinypic.com/2rm3vrm.jpg
http://scontent-b.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xfp1/t51.2885-15/10369258_1377113349245029_779214216_a.jpg
http://www.desicomments.com/dc3/05/259303/259303.jpg

[zhaoyun]

Every Brazilian today is a mixture of 3 races. Native American, African, European.
But all in different proportion.

BUTLERKING THREAD. NUFF SAID. :picard2:

[curupira]

As I said, many fully colonial Brazilians from Northeast and Minas Gerais (and elsewhere) score about 95% euro or more, on par with Afrikaner results. I did it and notice I don't even identify as "white", but only as Brazilian. As I said, I'm 31/32 colonial Brazilian who traces his ancestry back to the very first settlers of Brazil (~ 1500, when João Ramalho arrived!). I am also of poor rural background.

But to describe the whose of Brazil, one needs to take into account all of our segments:

Anyway, these two pics, coming from autosomal studies, describe the total composition of Brazil more reliably than free guesses (including "white", "pardo" and "black" Brazilians):

2013 study:

http://i44.tinypic.com/29lil3b.jpg

2011 study:

http://i49.tinypic.com/bydlu.png

[ButlerKing]

I posted random results from all over Brazil, from several different states. Get an account on 23andme and see it for yourself.

And many of them clearly fall below 90%, most of them were in 80-90%.


Anyway you should be most than just 1 individual sample from each sample, to be sure about your claims. At least 5 samples for one region or city to be sure.

Even I can win a few lottery number in my first game.

[curupira]

And many of them clearly fall below 90%, most of them were in 80-90%.e.

I posted results of Brazilians who got tested on 23andme, not of "white" Brazilians. The only one who identified to me a category was someone from Rio Grande do Norte who scored over 90% euro who said he was a "pardo". I did score over 90% euro too, and I don't identify as "white" either.

As I said, the total composition of Brazil is more relevant if it is about to describe Brazil than the exact average ancestry of "white" Brazilians.

[ButlerKing]

I posted results of Brazilians who got tested on 23andme, not of "white" Brazilians. The only one who identified to me a category was someone from Rio Grande do Norte who scored over 90% euro who said he was a "pardo". I did score over 90% euro too, and I don't identify as "white" either.

As I said, the total composition of Brazil is more relevant if it is about to describe Brazil than the exact average ancestry of Brazilians.


Dude than 100% sure those are just luck. The total of Brazilians DNA is composed of Native American, African, European and that's in every study showed.

Even White Brazilians from 1500's to 21st century are far from free of non-white admixture. You can only convince people by posting authentic DNA studies or a autosomal DNA study but right now I can't find one.

[curupira]

Who claimed otherwise? Take into account my ancestors arrived about 150 years before those of Afrikaners, and even without apartheid I scored about the same as they do. And I do not identify as "white" either.


[/I]

Dude than 100% sure those are just luck. The total of Brazilians DNA is composed of Native American, African, European and that's in every study showed.

Even White Brazilians from 1500's to 21st century are far from free of non-white admixture. You can only convince people by posting authentic DNA studies or a autosomal DNA study but right now I can't find one.

[curupira]

My point still stands, the total composition of Brazil is more relevant if it is about to describe Brazil than the exact average ancestry of "white" Brazilians.

[ButlerKing]

Who claimed otherwise? Take into account my ancestors arrived about 150 years before those of Afrikaners, and even without apartheid I scored about the same as they do.


[/I]

You're the acception not the rule

There are always exception, just like there are few Punjabis alive who shows 85-90% Western Eurasian and 10-15% South Asian but the average is 55-60% West Eurasian and 40-45% South Asian.
Some significant numbers can be 65 - 75% West Eurasians + 25 -35% South Asian, this is why Indians think Punjabi look Afghan, Armenians, people from western Eurasia.

[Smaug]

Dude, stop thumbing me down or I will stop replying :picard2:


That study is not from all ethnicities. They are all " White " Brazilians.


No Black or Asian brazilians have more than 50% white :picard1::picard1: and even Pardos were not included although many are just as white.


It is the DNA study of White Brazilians in wikipedia that says this not me

"


From your own wikpedia

" A comprehensive study presented by the Brazilian Journal of Medical and Biological Research found that on average, white Brazilians are (>70%) European.[4] Another autosomal study carried out by the geneticist Sergio Pena showed that the overwhelming ancestry of "white" Brazilians is European, but there is Native American and African ancestries as well (an average of 80% European ancestry).[4][5] "

NO! They are people from all ethnicities!

[curupira]

The total ancestry of Brazil, which is really relevant, is predominantly euro in all Brazilian regions:

These two pics, coming from autosomal studies, describe the total composition of Brazil more reliably than free guesses (including "white", "pardo" and "black" Brazilians):

2013 study:

http://i44.tinypic.com/29lil3b.jpg

2011 study:

http://i49.tinypic.com/bydlu.png

[ButlerKing]

NO! They are people from all ethnicities!


I don't get this " people from all ethnicities ". Don't you mean Brazilian white from all ethnicities?I suggest someone edit the wikipedia if they can. Otherwise it mislead people thinking White brazilians are far from pure white, when read that wiki the first thing that came to mind these are mix race Brazilians whites.

[ButlerKing]

The total ancestry of Brazil, which is really relevant, is predominantly euro in all Brazilian regions:

These two pics, coming from autosomal studies, describe the total composition of Brazil more reliably than free guesses (including "white", "pardo" and "black" Brazilians):

2013 study:

http://i44.tinypic.com/29lil3b.jpg

2011 study:

http://i49.tinypic.com/bydlu.png


So what's the problem here?
You posted this like so many time

What's wrong with saying Brazilians are Triracial?

[curupira]

I do not have any problems with it, as long as you admit there is considerable individual variation and also that euro ancestry is the most important in all Brazilian regions.



So what's the problem here?
You posted this like so many time

What's wrong with saying Brazilians are Triracial?

[ButlerKing]

NO! They are people from all ethnicities!

Don't get me wrong, when I read about Brazilian white and looked at them I clearly though they were white looking but they also gave less white feeling than Europeans because of what was written their about their autosomal DNA admixture.

The first impression it gave me about white brazilians is caztizos


These Caztizos always claim a meztizo father or grandfather ( who are either 1/2 or 1/4 Amerindian themselves )


They look like this

http://www.fotosimagenes.org/imagenes/castizo-raza-3.jpg
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/fa/89/e7/el-castizo.jpg
http://www.actu-foot.fr/IMG/jpg/MEXIQUE_J_HERNANDEZ_090410.jpg

[Smaug]

I don't get this " people from all ethnicities ". Don't you mean Brazilian white from all ethnicities?I suggest someone edit the wikipedia if they can. Otherwise it mislead people thinking White brazilians are far from pure white, when read that wiki the first thing that came to mind these are mix race Brazilians whites.

Many people in Brazil who identify as "white" are not really "white", so many on the people on your study should be excluded. Real White Brazilians are white.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?119529-White-Brazilians

[Virtuous]

Buttlerking, is it me, or you have some sort of agenda?

[pinguino]

Glad to know there is still Amerindian genetics in Brazil. Surprising as it sound, it still have it.

[ButlerKing]

Buttlerking, is it me, or you have some sort of agenda?


What agenda can I fulfill by claiming they are mix?

[Isleño]

That was only a small mistake but I wasn't wrong about DNA study.What matters most is DNA studies and different parts of Brazil clearly have different DNA and none are pure ( which was the point of my thread )



IS VERY CLEAR, many white brazilians are caztizos but the problem is they just look white.


Many of these "Pardos" look as white as full blooded europeans but the strange thing is they don't identify with European. The same for most of these Caztizos who are mixture of Meztizo and European. One look at them and you might not even call them South Americans but European.

Mexicans for example are from 30% to 70% Amerindians + 30% to 70% European. For example half white / half mexican look as white as any pure european but this doesn't mean they would identify as white

http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo272/Jlynn2o-cle-/064-1.jpg

Mexican dad and white american mother

http://ugc-01.cafemomstatic.com/gen/constrain/500/500/80/2011/05/21/11/8l/os/porqf1wf0gii3j.jpg?imageId=21542736



Mariah Carey calls herself black even though she is only 1/4 Black and 3/4 white , they call her quadroon, but she looks hella white.

http://www.nndb.com/people/115/000023046/mariah-carey.jpg
http://nex1.tv/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/mariah-carey2.jpg
http://i1.tribune.com.pk/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/494920-MariahCareyphotofile-1358351487-472-640x480.JPG

Yes, but not studies that are flawed, such as the example Curupira gave how one study came from blood donors whom were usually poor and the poorer classes are subject to more admixture. If one would to read one of these flawed studies, they would get the idea that the 90%+ white Brazilians don't even exist. But they actually made up half of the total 23andme results provided here in this thread. To me, that's proof of fault in the study.

What probably happen is they took all of their samples and added them up and gave us averages. But what they are not telling you is that they also took samples from self identified whites, which some may have been substantially mixed, which would lower the European average. This would give the impression that the average could be lower like 70%, when really it's not. I'm sure the percentage of actual whites (not counting 70%er's) is slightly lower than half of the population, but there are plenty of 90%+ whites in Brazil. I think these 23andme samples prove this.

[Isleño]

Don't get me wrong, when I read about Brazilian white and looked at them I clearly though they were white looking but they also gave less white feeling than Europeans because of what was written their about their autosomal DNA admixture.

The first impression it gave me about white brazilians is caztizos


These Caztizos always claim a meztizo father or grandfather ( who are either 1/2 or 1/4 Amerindian themselves )


They look like this

http://www.fotosimagenes.org/imagenes/castizo-raza-3.jpg
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/fa/89/e7/el-castizo.jpg
http://www.actu-foot.fr/IMG/jpg/MEXIQUE_J_HERNANDEZ_090410.jpg

Jessica Biel is an American. She has a tiny bit of Amerindian admixture, but she is seen as a white woman in the USA.

[Isleño]

So what's the problem here?
You posted this like so many time

What's wrong with saying Brazilians are Triracial?

There is nothing wrong with saying Brazilians are triracial, and many are, but not all are. There are many white Brazilians that are 90%+. To me, this doesn't qualify as triracial, the admixture is too small. I understand that you may have been mislead by faulty studies, but you have now seen there are many 90%+ whites in Brazil, so maybe you won't believe these faulty studies. Most of them are including "self identified whites", in which some are 70% Euro and identifying as white. Of course this would bring down the European average, undermining whites that are 90%+.