An American Debate

[Lady L]

Recently someone made a comment ( not here ) that Americans were the trash Europe didn't want. :rolleyes: Others might suggest Americans were the ones that had the balls to journey on, seek freedom of religion...etc....

They also commented we were hated by everyone including Europe.

Any comments..? :)

[Æmeric]

The Puritans & Pilgrims who settled New England were largely middleclass by the standards of the 17th century. In spite of settling in a region that had some of the poorest soils & worst climate of the Eastern Seaboard, New England has always the highest income levels & the highest concentration of institutes of higher learning in the US.

The Delaware Valley was also settled by middleclass individuals, Quakers being prominate among them. Philadelphia was the second city of the British Empire by the time of the Revolution.

Virginia, Maryland & the Carolinas were populated by Cavaliers after the defeat of King Charles I by Cromwell in the English Civil War. These people were part of the gentry in England.

Many persons who came during the Colonial Era were indentured servants. But they had to make a choice to indenture themselves to come to the New World & improve their standing in life, rather then remain in a life of squalor & maybe relying on charity for their survival.

Prior to the 1830s, getting to the US was very difficult as it involved a journey of several weeks on ships powered by wind. It was expected that some of the passengers wouldn't survive the trip. It was also a great expense to purchase passage & the passengers would not be earning an income during the journey. So this doesn't sound like something the "trash of Europe" would volunteer for. Yes, many of those who made the journey were poor but they had the moral aptitude to overcome the obstacles & settle what in many cases was a wilderness & in a society without anything resembling the modern welfare state. The people who took up the challenge made up for in character what they lacked in material wealth.

In the 21st century it is relative easy to migrate. You can get anywhere in the world by jetliner in 24-hours. Arrive at a modern airport frive into a modern city with the comforts we current take for granted - electricity, potable water, fiber optic communications, grocery stores over flowing with food, hospitals with the latest medical technology etc.... For many immigrants it is the equalivant of leaving the 19th century & arriving in the 21st century. And there are the welfare benefits, get sick show up at an emergency room & skip out without paying the bill. Have an anchor baby & collect ADC, food stamp & housing vouchers, wouldn't want that child of illegal aliens to be deprived :rant: I wonder if the West would have an immigration problem if not for the generous welfare state benfits that the new immigrants qualify upon landing. Who is trash, the immigrants who left the poor overpopulated nation of Sweden in the 19th century to start a new life in the Upper Midwest of America in an age without a welfare safety net or the Muslims who upon arriving in wealthy 21st century Sweden sign up for all their welfare "rights" & perhaps never work? It's not fair to equate the Europeans who left Europe from the 17th to 19th century for the new Eurolands with the immigrants who have arrived in Europe over the last 50-years.

[Vargtand]

Well most from Sweden that emigrated were poor people, hunger and famine I think was the main reason. I can only speak for my country when I say that it is quite a shameful part of our history when so many people left because our country was not strong enough

[Lady L]

Recently someone made a comment ( not here ) that Americans were the trash Europe didn't want. :rolleyes: Others might suggest Americans were the ones that had the balls to journey on, seek freedom of religion...etc....

They also commented we were hated by everyone including Europe.

Any comments..? :)

Are we really free of religion now? I've found that if you tell someone your not Christian they look at you funny. :eek:

It's like Christian bullets flying and some of us ducking :D

We get approached by Mormons and other strange religions asking us to join them. Always feels like pressure to me, I don't like that.

:coffee:

[Bridie]

Whatever the reasons for emigrating to start a new life somewhere else, it takes great courage, strength, hope, adaptability, positivity and resourcefulness to do so. That cannot be denied. Whether or not it is right, is another matter.

En masse migrations, throughout history, have always caused problems... and they still do.

As for the rest of the world hating the USA... I'd say that's generally accurate. That's not to say that all US Americans as individuals are disliked though.

[Brännvin]

I do not like them, their values and culture, will I be banned for it here, just wondering :D

[Fortis in Arduis]

Are we really free of religion now? I've found that if you tell someone your not Christian they look at you funny. :eek:

It's like Christian bullets flying and some of us ducking :D

We get approached by Mormons and other strange religions asking us to join them. Always feels like pressure to me, I don't like that.

:coffee:

Well, I think that you are quite British in your outlook, and actually I think of you and Lyfing as British, as I have said before.

The evangelical bunch have always seemed very American to us.



No, I do not think that Americans were/are the trash of Europe, but I think that you have a tendency towards religious or moral idealism, which must come from your origins.

Secular, not very evangelical Europe sees that as shallow, mad or stupid, when actually it is just different.

This also probably has much to do with the successes of social Marxism in secularising our society than it does with any extreme difference, on your part.

Personally I do not think that it would be very strange to read the *King James Bible* everyday, pray, and observe the Sabbath, so long as I do not make a song and dance out of it.

I notice that Britain is also 'hated' by 'everyone' in Europe, yet 'they' listen to our pop music, sometimes almost exclusively.

I am very embarrassed by this.

I meet Germans who have come to London to 'worship' the new secular gods of Brit Pop, who know more about British bands than I do. Yet, do they really like Britain? No. There is a real hatred there, beneath the fancy burr walnut veneer...

The same relationship exists with America. The world is confounded and enthralled by Hollywood, which drives us to love/hate our cultural 'oppressor'.

Of course this is really just a function of international capitalism and has very little to do with anyones' actual ethnoculture.

You and we have the military capability and the military-strategic landmass capable of supporting a truly magnificent (but degenerate) capitalist system, which is loved and hated, even by unborn children.

[Amarantine]

Recently someone made a comment ( not here ) that Americans were the trash Europe didn't want. :rolleyes: Others might suggest Americans were the ones that had the balls to journey on, seek freedom of religion...etc....

They also commented we were hated by everyone including Europe.

Any comments..? :)

hm well, I am one of USA immigrant's descedents from the end of 19c, with the difference that my ancestor came back in Montenegro. He was small kid when he went to USA and he came back in older years. From that group of immigrants 50% stayed forever in USA. I had opportunity to read for some immigrants from Montenegro and Croatia, even in 18c ?!

America was "promissed land" for them, people which came from constant European wars, they wanted fresh start in the new land. All their hopes where directed to established the new, better world and much happier environment.

So, I couldn't say America was a trash of Europe, even if we know that America was punishment for European criminals, but I think immigrants were majority. In that case Australia is in the same box...

But what is the trash in USA today, sorry people, but your Government is really problematic one! They tortured the whole planet.

[SuuT]

I do not like them, their values and culture, will I be banned for it here, just wondering :D

If that were you in your Avatar you would be free to spout just about anything.;)

EDIT: LOL. NICE! :D Hope you put the other back soon, Brännvin. ;)



Most Euros who detest Americans have never even been to America; or, been there long enough to see that a core group of intelligent, industrious, culturally connected (to their European roots), concerened and empathic people create and maintain a country that goes unseen on the television, and unreported on in the press.

[Poltergeist]

As if today's Europe were any better with its Zeropeans.:rolleyes:

[Treffie]

Most Euros who detest Americans have never even been to America;

Or even better. Most Euros who detest Americans will never visit America.

As for myself, I see that Americans are stereotyped as lacking in manners, education, charm and finesse - but this just a media image that we are led to believe. Most Americans I know have been bright, articulate and with a very similar sense of humour to myself.

[Skandi]

As for the rest of the world hating the USA... I'd say that's generally accurate. That's not to say that all US Americans as individuals are disliked though.

Very true I think.

[Gooding]

Are we really free of religion now? I've found that if you tell someone your not Christian they look at you funny. :eek:

It's like Christian bullets flying and some of us ducking :D

We get approached by Mormons and other strange religions asking us to join them. Always feels like pressure to me, I don't like that.

:coffee:

I hear you on that one, Mrs. Lyfing. You know how wrapped up in conformity most of our countrymen are and there are religions such as the Mormons and Jehovah's Witlesses that are all about conforming to the group and attracting as many potential drones as possible. That's simply one part of the Christian paradigm that's had the chance to define so much of our society. Those of us who do try to dodge the "Christian bullets" are going to be looked at oddly by the questioner, not necessarily because the questioner's devout, but because they expect everybody to follow the same spiritual fashion. In a sense, the pressure you mentioned is all pervasive, but in a way, that all pervasiveness is ridiculous because I seriously doubt if the Christian religion's taken that seriously by people who just need to be sitting in a pew on Sunday morning listening to a priest giving a homily about the latest news or a good book he's reading. Since 9-11, it seems that the Christian influence has thickened simply as a response to the destruction caused by Al Qaeda-funded terrorists. The media's done a pretty good job out of capitalizing off of our fears and anger, so we feel safe with a cozy little hatred.The Christian Churches have a nice little advertisement for church attendance as well, with that. That's just Andrew McDonald Gooding's private little take on this whole fucked up mess we're sitting in right now, not meant to reflect any ethnic group, even or especially his own, that's represented here. Andy being Andy.I don't even speak for my family.

[SuuT]

Or even better. Most Euros who detest Americans will never visit America.

Right! I think that they should.:)


As for myself, I see that Americans are stereotyped as lacking in manners, education, charm and finesse - but this just a media image that we are led to believe. Most Americans I know have been bright, articulate and with a very similar sense of humour to myself.

The apple doesn't (can't) fall far from the cart.


People across the pond like to pretend that America is the sum of its foreign policy decisions, too. Which is a pretty infantile (and rather arrogant) way of thinking.

I hope no one misunderstands me, here: America, considered as a geo-political entity is the musclebound teenager of the world and should probably be smacked around a bit. However, I have never met an American that would let anyone other than an American do the smacking - and I respect that very much.

[Bari]

A lot of people travelling to America were also educated and were looking for possibilities of the land many had describes as "country of opportunities". Here they could become what they wanted by their skills and intellect, not their class and family name.

Americans i have met have all been very polite and well-mannered. Especially people from the southern states.

Some are inbred and stupid, but its not like those kind of people arent excisting in Europe as well.

[Brännvin]

Most Euros who detest Americans have never even been to America; or, been there long enough to see that a core group of intelligent, industrious, culturally connected (to their European roots), concerened and empathic people create and maintain a country that goes unseen on the television, and unreported on in the press.

First all, I am not an Euro, it is currently a currency. ;)

Maybe I was a bit harsh and trolling, I have nothing against the USA, I just have no admiration. My feeling is neutral in relation to, but what Bridie pointed out is the correct, and what I really think .

[SuuT]

First all, I am not an Euro, it is currently a currency. ;)

:eek:


Maybe I was a bit harsh and trolling, I have nothing against the USA, I just have no admiration. My feeling is neutral in relation to, .

lol, Yes. I'm sure you're completely indifferent:rolleyes:

[Nationalitist]

As if today's Europe were any better with its Zeropeans.:rolleyes:

Many Americans here on this board should be given honorary Zeropean status.

[Gooding]

Many Americans here on this board should be given honorary Zeropean status.

Thanks for the thought, but we have our own problems.:coffee:

[Æmeric]

Many Americans here on this board should be given honorary Zeropean status.

So says the wannabe Mexican.:rolleyes2:

[Jäger]

They also commented we were hated by everyone including Europe.
There is indeed a general dislike of the USA, at least here in Germany, a feeling we certainly shall utilize and increase if possible, if it means we can put some distance between the degenerate ideas of Judeo-USian "Think Tanks" and our population.

As for the types who emigrated from Europe, this is just speculation.

[Lady L]

Or even better. Most Euros who detest Americans will never visit America.

Whether they know it or not they may be afraid that by coming they would change their minds. :wink

I've had experiences where I thought I hated something and then I got a taste and it wasn't such a bad taste after all. :D

I wouldn't expect them to start loving some of the ways this Country is ran, etc. But, the people here are worthy of a second look. We all have stories. For the bad people around, there are plenty of good. So many Americans are just trying to survive. We get up and send our children off to school, we "Pray" :p they do good, because we want them to do better than we did. We go to work and work our asses off to make ends meet, and to support or families. I see many Americans basically only focus on their families. The rest kinda just goes over our heads. These are things I'm not really ashamed of by no means.

[Nationalitist]

So says the wannabe Mexican.:rolleyes2:

My profile is a joke. I can change my profile any time I want, but you will remain wannabe European forever.

[The Lawspeaker]

My profile is a joke. I can change my profile any time I want, but you will remain wannabe European forever.
European Americans are Europeans, who speak a European language, have a European culture and religion and the U.S is a European nation. That is if we use the same logic as used for the Russians.

[Lady L]

My profile is a joke. I can change my profile any time I want, but you will remain wannabe European forever.

If you are not Mexican and your profile says you are, you are a wannabe. I can not take you seriously if you can not take yourself seriously. :rolleyes:

Æmeric is far from a European wannabe.

And, I just gave you negative rep for saying so- which btw, I never do. :wink

[Nationalitist]

European Americans are Europeans, who speak a European language, have a European culture and religion and the U.S is a European nation. That is if we use the same logic as used for the Russians.

Zeropean defending Americans. How typical.

No one in Europe (with exception of some delusional Zeropeans) considers Americans as Europeans.

[The Lawspeaker]

Zeropean defending Americans. How typical.

No one in Europe (with exception of some delusional Zeropeans) considers Americans as Europeans.
This is a forum for European preservation and guess what Americans are members of the board and not treated any other then other Europeans.
Because they are overseas Europeans- not living in Europe but still European.

And the only Zeropean around is you. Defending Islam and being an overall troll and traitor.

[Atlas]

The fact is... with nowadays "american/canadian/french by soil" everyone can be whatever they please regardless of religion or color.

White americans can be considered european because they're of full european descent. Just because they're a world away doesn't make them total stranger at least for me.

[Nationalitist]

If you are not Mexican and your profile says you are, you are a wannabe. I can not take you seriously if you can not take yourself seriously. :rolleyes:

There's plenty of members with not so serious profiles here. I guess we shouldn't take this forum seriously then...

[Aemma]

Zeropean defending Americans. How typical.

No one in Europe (with exception of some delusional Zeropeans) considers Americans as Europeans.

Tuco, maybe you want to elaborate a bit on the notion that "Americans are not European". I hear that a lot and being North American myself I have certain views with respect to this kind of statement which I will share a bit later. But I do realise that there is a bone of contention among Europeans that Americans/North Americans should not consider themselves European.

Although this issue has been hinted at over and over again here, perhaps it's time that it merits some real "hang time" as an actual topic of debate. :)

What do you think? :)

[Liffrea]

I have no antipathy towards the colonials, (REBEL SCUM!!!)

I haven’t ever been to America; I think I would like to go whilst there is still some trace of the European left, most Americans I have met personally I generally like, when they’re quiet.:D

When I was travelling through Europe, I hooked up with an American lass from Philadelphia, well an Australian lass from Perth as well as it happens, they were both pleasant, the American girl tried hard to convince me of the differences in American accents, all sounded like Canadians to me….

Studying the transplanted English persons, I came to the conclusion that the difference between us is that the English make better drunks and the one annoying thing I have found with Americans is that they always want you to speak, “I love your accent”. Apparently the English have a reputation for being cultured! I always thought we had a reputation for being violent alcoholic hypocrites….

[Nationalitist]

This is a forum for European preservation and guess what Americans are members of the board and not treated any other then other Europeans.

And how many Europeans are here (even if we include Zeropeans)?

Besides, not all Europeans here have same ideas about "European preservation", many of them do not even use this word to describe their political worldview (including me).

Anyway, let's focus on reality, not on internet message boards. How many people in Europe would consider "white" Americans as Europeans?


And the only Zeropean around is you. Defending Islam and being an overall troll and traitor.

Nonsense. Traitor to what? Islamic problem in my country is different than in western Europe, even if I would defend what you call "islamization" I wouldn't be a traitor to my nation and that's all that matters.

Look at your posts, today you advocated the shootings of Muslim civilians, neoconnish Zeropeanism as it's best.

[Aemma]

I have no antipathy towards the colonials, (REBEL SCUM!!!)

I haven’t ever been to America; I think I would like to go whilst there is still some trace of the European left, most Americans I have met personally I generally like, when they’re quiet.:D

When I was travelling through Europe, I hooked up with an American lass from Philadelphia, well an Australian lass from Perth as well as it happens, they were both pleasant, the American girl tried hard to convince me of the differences in American accents, all sounded like Canadians to me….

Studying the transplanted English persons, I came to the conclusion that the difference between us is that the English make better drunks and the one annoying thing I have found with Americans is that they always want you to speak, “I love your accent”. Apparently the English have a reputation for being cultured! I always thought we had a reputation for being violent alcoholic hypocrites….

:pound: Well I was told once by a member of this very board that I sounded like I came from Minnesota. :D LOL But I assure you that's as far as any resemblance in accent you will see. There are some subtle differences in terms of how we pronoounce words between Canadians and our American cousins and there are even more distinct regional differences within the USA itself. You need an ear for it is all. Much like all the regionalism found in England proper, it occurs here as well. :)

[Goidelic]

Whoever said Finnics to be removed from Europe is crazy, misinformed or pulling our leg. First off, Finnics are ethnogenetically very European, along with their language. There were plenty of Vikings that settled in Finland and Finnic areas, so we can conclude that Vikings are also a part of Finnic history and ethnogenesis. Some Finns and Finnics even have less foreign admixture than some indigenous modern day Swedes & Norwegians who received more Sub-Saharan Neolithic Slave mixture over the last 5-10,000 years. Finnics are basically of Baltic & Nordic ethnogenesis. Some have partial Uralic/Lapp traits but those were also indigenous all over Scandinavia thousands of years ago, including with some Vikings, who reached Iceland and the Faroe Islands etc. Would you like to remove Iceland and the Faroe Islands from Europe?

As far as Hungarians go, they are also very ethnogenetically & culturally European. Their language has also been become part of European history. There are Mongoloid minorities but they don't represent the population as a whole. Do Turks in Germany and North Africans in France represent the indigenous population as a whole?

By the way, Americans of fully European descent are European; culturally, ethnogenetically, and linguistically. I've had Europeans in Europe tell me they consider Americans of fully European descent, European. Euro-Americans have formed their own enclaves, Old Stocks in the South, Germans & Irish in the Northeast & Midwest, Southern Europeans in the Northeast, Scandinavians & Anglo-Irish immigrants in the North, Irish, Scandinavians in the West etc.

So these Euro-Americans wouldn't be part of the European diaspora?

http://zrogers.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/eugene_oneill_372x495.jpg

http://www.notablebiographies.com/images/uewb_09_img0628.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/President_Woodrow_Wilson_portrait_December_2_1912. jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Andrew_Jackson.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Gilbert_Stuart_Williamstown_Portrait_of_George_Was hington.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Ronald_Reagan_in_Cowboy_From_Brooklyn_trailer.jpg

http://gallery.newkerala.com/images/wallpapers/mena-suvari-253833.jpeg - just to diversify it, I added a partial Balkaner. ;)

[Brännvin]

There were plenty of Vikings that settled in Finland and Finnic areas, so we can conclude that Vikings are also a part of Finnic history and ethnogenesis.

Scandinavians have settled in Western part of Finland long before the Viking era, the presence of I1a date there long before of it.

"Migration Waves to the Baltic Sea Region"
Source (https://oa.doria.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/44624/humangen.pdf?sequence=1)



Some Finns and Finnics even have less foreign admixture than some indigenous modern day Swedes & Norwegians who received more Sub-Saharan Neolithic Slave mixture over the last 5-10,000 years.

So based on your logic, British Islanders and Central Europeans are mulattoes while Southern Europeans are Negroes? :eek: :lightbul:

[Goidelic]

Scandinavians have settled in Western part of Finland long before the Viking era, the presence of I1a date there long before of it.

"Migration Waves to the Baltic Sea Region"
Source (https://oa.doria.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/44624/humangen.pdf?sequence=1)

Haplogroups are older than ethnogenetic isolates, but you're also right about that, in addition to the Viking settlers. :D;)

So based on your logic, British Islanders and Central Europeans are mulattoes while Southern Europeans are Negroes? :eek: :lightbul:

Of course not, but some have such ancient B.C.E. admixture that shows up on low-quality SNP genome tests testing few SNP's. Especially based on female mtDNA lines. Females were easily used as slaves, it's extremely rare to have Y-DNA Sub-Saharan haplotypes in Europe. Although, you can have Max Von Sydow types who possess a Y-DNA Sub-Saharan haplogroup, yet still in this day be all Northern European. A couple years ago they found an English Anglo-Saxon who turned out to have a Y-DNA Sub Saharan haplogroup it turns out it came though ancient times. I'll try to look for the article. A marker that old predates their ethnic groups. Do you think a partial Negro/Saharan ancestor 5,000 or 10,000 years would show up on a European's modern day genome 5,000 years later? ;):p

[Allenson]

Well, we're not really European anymore. We are North American now. However, the white North Americans are indeed European-derived. Our genetics, language and at its fundemental basis (minus all the modern crap), culture are of Old World origins. There's really no arguement there, from what I can reckon.

I'm not a European 'wannabe' and nor to I think Aemeric or Aemma are either. We just recognize our roots, appreciate them and wish to maintain some continuity here in the New World. It's pretty simple really, amigo. :cool:

I will say that I very much enjoy talking with Europeans--in real life or here on the interwebs. White America is somewhat under siege right now and I find it comforting to connect with the ancestral lands and long sundered kin...if even Europe is now under sige herself! :coffee:

[Æmeric]

Genetically White Americans are European & our culture is an offshoot of European culture. Even our Christian fundamentalism has roots in Northwestern Europe.



Well, speaking as a Brit...

We live in a tiny matchbox sized cubicles and eat tiny amounts of very expensive food as recompense and spend most of our wages on running a really small toy-sized car, if we are lucky enough to have one.

To save money, some of us actually have to walk sometimes, without air-con, which can result in anorexia.



35% of our population lives in Soviet-style grey social housing, even smaller than what is available on the private market, yet the only time the 'other half' of the population meet these (even smaller) people is when they DIE of lack of available drugs in National Health Service hospital wards.

Thus, within Britain, equality is much vaunted but achieved only in (ignominious) death.

Religious people are treated with extreme distrust and suspicion in case they infect our children with their 'out-moded' morals or spirituality. The word 'Jesus' is THE ultimate conversation stopper, and self-deprecation the only relief from our eternal failings...

... and the best way to annoy jealous foreigners whose sorry lives are pitifully worse than ours. ;)



I have said it many times before, I do not want to relocate to Europe. I see no point in abandoning the New Eurolands. I don't want to live in a matchbox cubicle & drive a toy-sized car. And I understand the winterdays are very short north of the 50th meridian.:coffee:

[Nationalitist]

You have Zeropean view of "Europe" and "European identity". The only difference between you and EUro-mondialists is that you don't like EU because it's not racist enough. No real nationalist wants to be "European" if you know what I mean.

[Smaland]

...
But what is the trash in USA today, sorry people, but your Government is really problematic one! They tortured the whole planet.

The government is not one of my choosing. Regarding the Presidency, I haven't voted for either Republicans or Democrats since 1992. :(

[Goidelic]

You have Zeropean view of "Europe" and "European identity". The only difference between you and EUro-mondialists is that you don't like EU because it's not racist enough. No real nationalist wants to be "European" if you know what I mean.

Hail Zeropeanism and its semantics. :thumb001::p I believe in Cultural & Ethnic European Preservation as well as their diasporas elsewhere. ;)

I've known fully descended Slovene-Americans who use to live in Pittsburgh that visited their relatives in Slovenia. ;)

I respect Nationalism, but what good is a Nationalist who doesn't want to discuss the rest of "Europe" and their diaspora descendants living abroad elsewhere? :confused:

The problem with some forms of Nationalism is that some "forms" forget its assimilated non-ethnogenetic European populations over many generations. Some French Nationalists might regard some 1/8th North African & 7/8 indigenous French individuals as their "brothers" who are staunch and pro-French, yet that individual might have alien phenotypic traits in his profile from his 1/8th North African ancestry, pretty soon if there are many similar 1/8th & 1/16th North African mixed French it changes their whole aboriginal "European French" genepool & prehistoric nation. ;)

If "Europe" gets too mixed with all the Muslims & Africans pooring in, we'll only have to rely on real indigenous similar ethnic "European" diasporas in Europe and abroad to reproduce with. :p

[Svarog]

I don't know for the start, but yeah, I am pretty sure Americans are almost as hated as Serbs outside of their own country, don't know many people who would have anything positive to say.

[Johnston]

I don't know for the start, but yeah, I am pretty sure Americans are almost as hated as Serbs outside of their own country, don't know many people who would have anything positive to say.How are Serbs roundly hated? Maybe I have not done enough research on internet warriors scowling at them behind computer screens. I have witnessed anti-Americanisms though...:rolleyes2: