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Pallantides
02-19-2010, 01:31 AM
Isak Mikal Saba (1875–1925) politician and writer. Was the first Sami parliamentarian (Norwegian Labour Party) and wrote the Sami national anthem.
http://www.leksikon.org/images/saba_isak.jpg

Elsa Laula Renberg (1877–1931), politician who among other things organized the first international Sami conference.
http://www.e-skuvla.no/aalbmegebiejjie/arkiv/Felles/Foto/Albmotbeaivi/SAmodul2/2.1.10_elsalaularenberg.jpg

Ole Henrik Magga(born August 12, 1947) is a Sámi linguist and politician from Kautokeino, Norway.
http://www.nrk.no/contentfile/file/1.2306144!img2306014.jpg

Sofia Jannok (born 15 September 1982) is a Swedish Sami singer from Gällivare, Sweden.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4396/sofiajannok225.jpg

Ánde Somby, born in Buolbmat, Norway, is a well known traditional Sami joik artist and a Research Scholar in the Faculty of Law at the University of Tromsř, specializing in Indigonious Rights Law.
http://www.jus.uit.no/ansatte/somby/jpg/vill3b.jpg

Samuel Balto, Arctic explorer – one of the first people to cross Greenland on skis (together with Nansen)
http://www.baltostruestory.com/SamuelBalto1.jpg

Johan Turi (1854–1936), wrote the first novel in Sámi.
http://snowflakesinrain.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/thuuri.jpg

Ailo Gaup (1980–present), a motorcross sportsman who invented the "underflip"
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3748/78424435.jpg

Morten Gamst Pedersen (1981–present), Football player (currently playing for Blackburn Rovers).
http://www.mortenssalong.no/storage/editor_files/1_gamst_pedersen-2.jpg

Saami parliament of Norway
http://www.samediggi.no/kunde/bilder/Medium_Thomassen2.JPGhttp://www.samediggi.no/kunde/bilder/Medium_jarle_jonassen.jpghttp://www.sametinget.no/kunde/bilder/Medium_egil_olli.jpghttp://samediggi.no/kunde/bilder/Medium_Henriksen,%20Marianne%20Balto.jpghttp://samediggi.no/kunde/bilder/Medium_Retter,%20Gunn-Britt.jpghttp://samediggi.no/kunde/bilder/Medium_Store,%20Knut.jpghttp://www.samediggi.no/kunde/bilder/Medium_laila-susanne-vars_naert.jpghttp://www.samediggi.no/kunde/bilder/Medium_Keskitalo,%20Aili.jpghttp://samediggi.no/kunde/bilder/Medium_Eliassen,%20Olaf.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3014/3848765979_2c6bc6522f.jpghttp://www.nrk.no/contentfile/file/1.6743252!f34CropList/img174x232.jpghttp://www.sametinget.no/kunde/bilder/Medium_Nyvoll,%20Hilde%20Anita.jpghttp://www.samediggi.no/kunde/bilder/Medium_Bakken,%20Toril.jpghttp://www.nrk.no/contentfile/file/1.6504833!f34CropList/img174x232.jpghttp://www.samediggi.no/kunde/bilder/Medium_marie_therese_nordsletta_aslaksen.jpghttp://www.samediggi.no/kunde/bilder/Medium_G.T.Pedersen3.JPGhttp://www.samediggi.no/kunde/bilder/Medium_%C3%98rnebakk3.JPGhttp://www.samediggi.no/kunde/bilder/Medium_R.Skum2.JPGhttp://gfx.nrk.no/a_yak327Lf9o3n9b0nIUTgV_Q01s9JCyrqWf8KFnjRWg.jpght tp://samediggi.no/kunde/bilder/Medium_Thomassen,%20Ann-Mari.jpghttp://samediggi.no/kunde/bilder/Medium_Larsen,%20Vibeke.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/Miriam_Paulsen_1.jpg/180px-Miriam_Paulsen_1.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2669/3846727626_cd6a0c11ca.jpghttp://www.samediggi.no/kunde/bilder/Medium_J%C3%B8nsson1.JPGhttp://www.nsr.no/_cached_files/Files/bilder/Landsstyret/Ellinor%20M.%20Jama.jpg.100.220.220.2007.9.22.0.0. 21.jpghttp://img5.custompublish.com/getfile.php/494184.865.bxtrwuyvdb/J%C3%B8rn+Are+Gaski+copy.jpghttp://www.samediggi.no/kunde/bilder/Medium_Guvsam,%20Kirsi.jpghttp://samediggi.no/kunde/bilder/Medium_Gaup,%20Marie%20Therese%20Nordsletta.jpghtt p://media1.origo.no/-/cache/image/924898_h768a9879bef6a25d6b67_v1245048787_168x168_c u.jpeg

Saami parliament of Sweden
http://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/karinwannar3_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/hakanjonsson_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/josefinaskerk_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/saralarsson2_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/350px/heleandadring_ny_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/larspaulkroik_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/larsjonallas_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/maritastinnerbom2_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/permikaelutsi_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/agnetarimpi_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/monapersson_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/nicklasklang_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/erikoscaroscarsson_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/larserikfjellstrom_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/hannasofieutsi2_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/oddwillenfeldt_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/brorsaitton_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/ingridinga_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/larsanders_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/margretfjellstrom_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/sylviasimma2_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/alicenilsson_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/anderskraik_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/katarinaseva_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/larsjonasjonasson_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/lwsvonni_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/helenamoren_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/stefanmikaelsson_100.jpghttp://www.sametinget.se/images/ledamoter/ronnysvarto_100.jpg

Saami parliament of Finland
http://www.samediggi.fi/images/stories/yleiset_kuvat/karajat_iso.jpg

Sápmi football team
http://www.nrk.no/contentfile/file/1.6133152!f169CropList/img650x367.jpg

Pallantides
02-19-2010, 09:47 PM
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7388/img5093v.jpghttp://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1319/lujavri2.jpghttp://img689.imageshack.us/img689/2535/nyesamiskeveivisere2008.jpghttp://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/Saami/m1249582763.jpghttp://www.klassekampen.no/images/content/3894/normal.jpghttp://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7305/nyesamiskeveivisere.jpghttp://www.nrk.no/contentfile/file/1.2787251!img2787190.jpghttp://www.galdu.org/govat/galleri/img_0975.jpghttp://www.galdu.org/govat/galleri/reindeer_herders_world_conf_3_315.jpghttp://www.galdu.org/govat/galleri/demonstrasjon_2_001.jpghttp://www.galdu.org/govat/galleri/konferansa_rahpan_050.jpghttp://www.galdu.org/govat/galleri/world_reindeer_herders_conference_292.jpghttp://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel/4/42/424/424454/sameXart858.jpghttp://www.regjeringen.no/upload/AID/nyhetsbilder/2009/samiske_veivisere_2009.JPGhttp://www.sagat.no/assets/images/articles/550-olav.jpghttp://img3.custompublish.com/getfile.php/866649.743.uxsbussrfe/800x560/5-Jentene-fra-mellomtrinnet-danset-en-samisk-dans.jpg?return=www.nesseby.kommune.nohttp://euroheritage.net/saami2.jpghttp://www.freehawaiistickers.com/photos/Free%20Hawai%60i%20Saami.jpg

Pallantides
02-22-2010, 06:02 AM
Helga Pedersen (1973–present) politician. First Sami member of Government (Minister of Fisheries and Coastal Affairs, Norwegian Labour Party).
http://www.icenews.is/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/helga-pedersen-norway-fisheries.jpg

Niko Valkeapää (1968–present) musician and songwriter from Finland, now lives in Kautokeino, Norway .
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Niko_Valkeap%C3%A4%C3%A4.jpg/800px-Niko_Valkeap%C3%A4%C3%A4.jpg

Mari Boine (1956–present) musician from Norway.
http://frogmen.info/biographies/images/boine01.jpg

Jonne Järvelä (1974–present) musician and song-writer from Finland.
http://www.metalfromfinland.com/img/mff_korpiklaani.jpg

Nils Gaup (born April 12, 1955) film director from Norway.
http://www.kulturnett.no/visbilde?id=T12282028&type=temabilde

Mikkel Gaup (born January 16, 1968) actor from Norway.
http://www.vg.no/uploaded/image/bilderigg/2008/11/30/1228074272459_737.jpg

Lars Levi Lćstadius (1800–1861), religious reformist, bothanist and ethnologist.
http://www.saivu.com/govat/smavva/larslevileastadius.jpg

Pallantides
02-25-2010, 02:08 AM
http://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/May_Synnoeve_Trosten_1262599000.PNGhttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/Samiske_veivisere_utenfor_FN-bygningen_april_2008_1210071301_250x333.JPGhttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/SMFD_portrett_1260963553_250x375.JPGhttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/GHF_portrett_1260963390_250x375.JPGhttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/MH_portrett_2_1260963529_250x375.JPGhttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/Breahjta_1262598943_250x331.PNGhttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/Elle_Sofe_Henriksen_1262600327_250x331.PNGhttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/Lajla_Brandsfjell_1262599826.PNGhttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/Johan_Ande_Mahte_Somby_Sandvik_1262599923.PNGhttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/MariaSkum-6_1241511804_250x265.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/p1229088206_IMG_3892_lovisa_sjoberg.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/p1210243690_Anton5.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/p1210245738_Yngve50.jpghttp://www.nrk.no/contentfile/file/1.6434497!f34CropList/img174x232.jpghttp://www.alternativ.no/Nyheter/bilder/ailo_gaup.jpghttp://www.alternativ.no/Nyheter/bilder/eirik_myrhaug.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/steinar_pedersen_1204882314_250x372.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/JohanStromgren1__1210183877_250x334.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/p1210155538_IMG_0286_beh.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/p1210158142_pigga_lauhamaa.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/p1210177205_kaisa.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/p1210177832_johannaijas1.jpg

Oh my god this the most perfect Samekone I have ever seen, I think I'm in love!:love:
http://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/IMG_1044_1226664477.jpg

Osweo
02-25-2010, 02:42 AM
Oh my god this the most perfect Samekone I have ever seen, I think I'm in love!:love:
http://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/IMG_1044_1226664477.jpg
http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/may2009/5/9/claire-short-pic-rex-335158604.jpg
Claire Short, English politician. ;)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Clare_Short%2C_Birmingham_for_Gaza%2C_January_2009 _cropped.jpg
:p

Does 'Samekone' mean 'Lapp-woman'?

Pallantides
02-25-2010, 03:03 AM
Samekone is Norwegian for Sami wife.:D

Lapp is deragotory like Nigger is for Blacks.

The Ripper
02-25-2010, 05:46 AM
Samekone is Norwegian for Sami wife.:D

Lapp is deragotory like Nigger is for Blacks.

Why exactly is "Lapp" derogatory? In Finnish we call Sámi Lappalainen and Finnish Laplanders are called Lappilainen, and for some reason the former is offensive, but I'm not sure why it is so.

Do you have an explanation?

Pallantides
02-25-2010, 05:53 AM
Why exactly is "Lapp" derogatory? In Finnish we call Sámi Lappalainen and Finnish Laplanders are called Lappilainen, and for some reason the former is offensive, but I'm not sure why it is so.

Do you have an explanation?

Etymology of Lapp

The Sami are often known in other languages as "Lap", "Lapp", or "Laplanders", but many Sami regard these as pejorative terms.[10] Variants of the name "Lapp" were originally used in Norway, Sweden and Finland, and from there were adopted by all major European languages (English: Lapps, German, Dutch: Lappen, Russian, Ukrainian: Loparie, French: Lapons, Greek: Λάπωνες (Lápōnes), Italian: Lapponi, Polish: Lapończycy, Spanish: Lapones, Portuguese: Lapőes).
The exact meaning of this old term, and the reasons it came into common usage, are unknown; however in Scandinavian languages lapp means a patch of cloth for mending, which may be a description of the clothing, called a gakti, that the Sámi wear. Such 'patches' (i.e."lapp") can refer to something old and to be discarded – an epithet that would have been applied to the Sami culture itself. Another possible source is the Finnish word lape, which in this case means 'periphery'. Originally it meant any person living from the wilderness, not only the Sámi people. It is unknown how the word Lapp came into the Norse language, but it seems to have been introduced by the Danish historian Saxo Grammaticus to distinguish between Fish-Fennians (coastal tribes) and Lap-Fennians (forest tribes), supporting the second etymology. It was popularized and became the standard terminology by the work of Johannes Schefferus, Acta Lapponica (1673), but was also used earlier by Olaus Magnus in his Description of the Northern peoples (1555). There is another suggestion that it originally meant wilds. An alternative interpretation made by Damiăo de Góis in 1540 derives Lapland from “the dumb and lazy land”, because the land where no vegetables grow is lazy and does not speak. In any event, the term "lapp" is considered derogatory to most Sami.'

Osweo
02-25-2010, 06:42 PM
in Scandinavian languages lapp means a patch of cloth for mending, which may be a description of the clothing, called a gakti, that the Sámi wear.
Curiously, I dimly remember an etymology of the other Finnic ethnonym 'Vot' as something to do with tags, patches, small pieces of material... And that's in their own language. Perhaps such a term was current among some Sami, at some distant point in the past, and was translated by some ancient bilingual...?

Such 'patches' (i.e."lapp") can refer to something old and to be discarded – an epithet that would have been applied to the Sami culture itself. Another possible source is the Finnish word lape, which in this case means 'periphery'. Originally it meant any person living from the wilderness, not only the Sámi people. It is unknown how the word Lapp came into the Norse language, but it seems to have been introduced by the Danish historian Saxo Grammaticus to distinguish between Fish-Fennians (coastal tribes) and Lap-Fennians (forest tribes), supporting the second etymology. It was popularized and became the standard terminology by the work of Johannes Schefferus, Acta Lapponica (1673), but was also used earlier by Olaus Magnus in his Description of the Northern peoples (1555). There is another suggestion that it originally meant wilds. An alternative interpretation made by Damiăo de Góis in 1540 derives Lapland from “the dumb and lazy land”, because the land where no vegetables grow is lazy and does not speak. In any event, the term "lapp" is considered derogatory to most Sami.'


Lapp is deragotory like Nigger is for Blacks.
As I understand it, however, it is the Norse word for 'Sami'. Just as 'Welsh' is the English for 'Cymry'. I'm imagining if the Welsh suddenly took it into their head to demand that we stopped calling them the name we've used since forever, and tried to force us to get our mouths around their autonym, despite its slightly unwieldy nature in English speech... When I try to speak Welsh, I call myself Saes, not 'Englishman', and in Russian I say 'Anglichanin'. I don't particularly like the sound of those words, but I don't try to tell other people how to call me.

Are the Sami hyper-touchy about all this? Do they regularly moan about it? Doesn't seem a particularly endearing trait if so. :strokebeard: Seems like one of those cases where a normal word is supposed to be 'pejorative' because the thing it described has long been scorned, and the word itself remains just a word. The Sami just ought to rehabilitate the word, not engage in a futile struggle to wipe it out altogether. Foreigners WILL carry on saying 'Lapp', and I'm sure Germanic Scandinavians do to, at least in the home or whatever.

Pallantides
02-25-2010, 07:25 PM
I think they'd accept it from a foreginer, just don't call any of them " Jćvla innavla mongolide Lapp faen!":p

Lapp has fallen out of use in Norway, but I still think many say "Lappar" in Sweden when talking about Sami people.:)

The Ripper
02-25-2010, 07:42 PM
I think they'd accept it from a foreginer, just don't call any of them " Jćvla innavla mongolide Lapp faen!":p

Lapp has fallen out of use in Norway, but I still think many say "Lappar" in Sweden when talking about Sami people.:)

In Finnish lappalainen is still in common colloquial usage. On the news and in other more official contexts they are referred to as saamelainen. I've never associated any negative connotation with the ethnonym, but I'm from the south so what do I know. :cool:

http://a21.idata.over-blog.com/300x425/1/41/22/43/Topelius3.jpg

Sampo Lappelil / Sampo Lappalainen by Zacharias Topelis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topelius). A childhood favourite. :D

Pallantides
03-14-2010, 10:44 AM
http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?137,448,336http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?128,330,247http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?124,330,247http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?270,300,225http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?268,300,225http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?269,300,225http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?144,448,336http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?271,300,225http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?122,330,247http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?267,300,225http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?141,448,336http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?129,330,247http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?121,330,247http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?123,330,247http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?142,448,336http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?127,330,247http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?139,448,336http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?125,330,247http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?134,448,336http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?135,448,336http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?132,448,336http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?130,448,336http://www.sami.vgs.no/showpic.php?283,448,336http://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/gunvorg50_1208784152_250x362.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/Majapercent20Dunfjeld[1]_1205833631.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/mathis50_1210162887.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/marianne_iversen_1208784212.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/johan_klemet_kalstad_1208784251.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/Mns50_1210163244.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/Raunat50_1210181537.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/defaul3_1210175085.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/kaisa_1210175508.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/nils_oyvind_helander_1208783536.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/anne_dagmar_biti_mikalsen_1208783602.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/jon_todal_1208783647.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/lisa_baal_1208783759.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/andde_sara_1208783187.jpg

Pallantides
03-14-2010, 10:54 AM
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Pallantides
03-14-2010, 08:12 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3221/2352657426_27206123b5_o.jpg
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http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2046/2363736038_01401ea734_o.jpg

Pallantides
03-20-2010, 11:01 AM
http://www.ballade.no/nmi.nsf/pic/adjagasnullsjuto/$file/adjagasnullsjuto.jpg
http://www.skolenettet.no/nyUpload/Portal/Annet/anne_silja_turi.200.jpghttp://www.skolenettet.no/nyUpload/Portal/Annet/mats_jonas_pavall.200.jpghttp://www.skolenettet.no/nyUpload/Portal/Annet/elle_sofe_henriksen.200.jpghttp://www.nrk.no/contentfile/file/1.3554961!img3554928.jpghttp://www.sami.uit.no/sdg/ansatte/lma/grafikk/lma.jpghttp://www.sami.uit.no/sdg/ansatte/egb/grafikk/egb.jpghttp://www.sami.uit.no/sdg/ansatte/pkh/grafikk/pkh.jpghttp://www.sami.uit.no/sdg/ansatte/sij/grafikk/sij.jpghttp://www.sami.uit.no/sdg/ansatte/tli/grafikk/terje.gifhttp://www.sami.uit.no/sdg/ansatte/csa/grafikk/carina.jpghttp://www.sami.uit.no/sdg/ansatte/cbr/grafikk/camilla.gifhttp://tromsoby.no/file/pictures/picture-2007.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/Susanne_Amalie_Andersen_1262599881.PNGhttp://www.sami.uit.no/sdg/ansatte/bev/grafikk/evjen1.jpghttp://www.sami.uit.no/sdg/ansatte/jlj/grafikk/jlj.jpg
http://www.sami.uit.no/sdg/nasjonaldag/grafikk/nasjonaldag2008.jpghttp://img2.custompublish.com/getfile.php/814406.1332.qauxdevcdd/209x179/4536577_814406.jpghttp://img2.custompublish.com/getfile.php/814405.1332.dcxxexqbsx/209x179/4533747_814405.jpghttp://img2.custompublish.com/getfile.php/814404.1332.yqwywuswbb/209x179/4533747_814404.jpg
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7271/riddu.jpghttp://image.qpicture.com/image/a/artist-anni-kristiina-juuso/53038.jpg
http://www.kautokeino.kommune.no/Finnmark/Kautokeino/kautokeinok.nsf/bilder/konfransierene.JPG/$FILE/konfransierene.JPG
http://gfx.nrk.no/3d-_sygdR9CuSm95CTTwmAuxt1GvzSVNYWJKbfWQhDOg.jpg
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/861761.1332.beuppvayur/800x650/Anne%20Kirste%20Aikio.jpg?no=4
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/861764.1332.ptwayufqec/800x650/Matti%20Aikio.jpg?no=9
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/861762.1332.fvudxvuuvs/800x650/M%C3%A1ret%20K%C3%A1re-Elle%20Partapuoli.jpg?no=10
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/861754.1332.wdtuubeuxd/800x650/Ol%20Johan%20Gaup,%20Ove%20St%C3%B8dle%20and%20Ann ele%20Gaup.jpg?no=11
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/861766.1332.yvpwbfwpty/800x650/Paul%20Ol%20Jona%20Utsi%20ja%20Aslat%20Ande%20Palt to.jpg?no=13
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/861767.1332.xaetypcpxs/800x650/Rauni%20%C3%84%C3%A4rel%C3%A4.jpg?no=15
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/861751.1332.udbsdytuxr/800x650/SUPU[1].jpg?no=17
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/861765.1332.vacesafrad/800x650/susanneamalie.jpg?no=18
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/861755.1332.acfqtvbstd/800x650/tuomas.jpg?no=20
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/908880.1332.ryptcxptrt/800x650/Anne%20Kirste%20Aikio%20ja%20Rauni%20%C3%84rel%C3% A4%C3%A4[1].jpg?no=1
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/908885.1332.csxxrpsvfa/800x650/Gunn%20Britt%20Retter.jpg?no=5
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/908884.1332.dvtbvqwcdq/800x650/Liv%20Inger%20Somby%20-%20publishing%20news%20and%20photos%20to%20www.gal du.org.jpg?no=7
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/908920.1332.usayayrwqq/800x650/Elena%20Jakovleva.jpg?no=2
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/908918.1332.accpdatbbs/800x650/Ellinor%20J%C3%A5ma.jpg?no=3
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/1179398.1332.cptqyvpuxp/800x650/Bjarne%201.jpg?no=5
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/1179400.1332.ypcvxebduq/800x650/Geir%20Tommy%20Pedersen.jpg?no=7
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/1179405.1332.dtpvteaeda/800x650/Magne%20Ove%20Varsi.jpg?no=12
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/1179406.1332.uypfubwywx/800x650/Mattias%20Aahren.jpg?no=13
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/1179407.1332.pxrcttrfpc/800x650/Tuomas%20Aslat%20Juuso.jpg?no=14
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/1079430.1332.wqcydrwxxp/800x650/Anya%20Jakovleva.jpg?no=4
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/943298.1332.udbbtuerbf/800x650/Anna%20Igontova.jpg?no=2
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/1079432.1332.defbuewqsp/800x650/Vladislav%20Kasaev%20and%20Semyon%20Jakovlev.jpg?n o=15
http://img2.custompublish.com/getfile.php/1071940.1332.qafwddrudp/Sara+Larsson+-+Foto+%C3%85se+Pulk+NRK+S%C3%A1mi+Radio_550x309.jp g
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/943299.1332.xqtdrrxbyv/800x650/Anna%20and%20friends.jpg?no=1
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/915171.1332.rpycybewtr/800x650/Anders%20Oskal.jpg?no=1
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/915161.1332.vfrpwbuxts/800x650/Andrey%20Ageev.jpg?no=2
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/915160.1332.tcptavevur/800x650/Ellinor%20G%20Utsi%20ja%20Aleksandra%20Artieva.jpg ?no=6
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/915172.1332.erqyaspvyq/800x650/Lars%20Miguel%20Utsi%20ja%20Helena%20Omma.jpg?no=8
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/915153.1332.wrcbfpuesf/800x650/Nils%20Henrik%20Sara.jpg?no=15
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/915170.1332.yuebpbrbrb/800x650/Odd%20Erling%20Smuk.jpg?no=16

Pallantides
04-06-2010, 07:33 PM
http://www.lapland-travel-info.com/image-files/samipeople.jpghttp://www.lapland-travel-info.com/image-files/samisisters167x230.jpghttp://img64.imageshack.us/img64/3451/samigirl.jpg
http://gfx.nrk.no/dl9IV6PK2b9iwol0V6cS0Q0T-dNcYZJEuEU9XSF8Kwpg.jpg
http://gfx.nrk.no/mJZ5sB5GCD1xI9aAymJV9ApiW_qJzm_VuqNJT0m3blnQ.jpg
http://gfx.nrk.no/VdTyHF6frSgukRXk6buq9AWUVoYJNlquzL3wyNjcMX0w.jpg
http://gfx.nrk.no/-8NRtJ1hQy5NzODyBkNI0waPzFU4MzVLn_UMygIDRY1w.jpg
http://gfx.nrk.no/yo_RNrlpcXvRu-UDusn9KwMCfHKotjP9o0SeCOJf2OOA.jpg
http://www.norsk.dk/FileCache/PageFiles/358523/samedame_jw.jpg/width_650.height_300.mode_FillAreaWithCrop.pos_Def ault.color_White.jpg
http://gfx.nrk.no/nRRRoiS_Y36wS4m5LJkMXQS4kY0r83_GTQuXCm0OnTzQ.jpg
http://www.nrk.no/contentfile/file/1.6137922!f169CropList/img650x367.jpg
http://img3.photographersdirect.com/img/9203/wm/pd1565348.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/7894/lappgirl.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2523/saamiboy.jpg
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/2762/saamifamily.jpg

Pallantides
05-17-2010, 08:56 PM
http://www.nrk.no/contentfile/file/1.6021336!img6021275.jpghttp://img5.custompublish.com/getfile.php/706289.865.wpfdfvstwu/Berit_140x149.jpghttp://img5.custompublish.com/getfile.php/711389.865.axarweucfb/Per+Edv_140x153.jpghttp://img5.custompublish.com/getfile.php/801084.865.pdveswwpta/Wiebke+S_140x176.jpghttp://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6843/maritr.jpghttp://img5.custompublish.com/getfile.php/928199.865.vavbbysasy/Knut+St+copy_140x141.jpghttp://img5.custompublish.com/getfile.php/803427.865.txdevafsfy/Ronny+Wilhelms_140x170.jpghttp://img5.custompublish.com/getfile.php/409424.865.purewdpxcu/Sten+J%C3%B8nsson+profil+copy.jpghttp://img5.custompublish.com/getfile.php/598822.865.vrcqaceebx/Willy+prof+copy_140x142.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/Barbro_Lill_H%C3%A6tta-Jakobsen.jpg/180px-Barbro_Lill_H%C3%A6tta-Jakobsen.jpghttp://img5.custompublish.com/getfile.php/494184.865.bxtrwuyvdb/J%C3%B8rn+Are+Gaski+copy.jpghttp://img5.custompublish.com/getfile.php/684787.865.cwsatfcfep/PIH+pre+copy_140x129.jpghttp://www.nrk.no/contentfile/file/1.6654751!f34CropList/img174x232.jpghttp://www.nrk.no/contentfile/file/1.6643622!f34CropList/img174x232.jpghttp://img6.custompublish.com/getfile.php/42877.136.fpvaqtqdsd/ailu%20gaup_298x250.jpghttp://img257.imageshack.us/img257/3678/somby.jpghttp://www.intrigue.no/pictures/Gallery1/images/IntrigueB21.jpghttp://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6760/niials.jpg

Pallantides
05-24-2010, 07:52 PM
http://www.heiafestivalen.no/mSpider/_data/bildearkiv/m1249582705.jpghttp://www.nrk.no/contentfile/file/1.6175645!f169CropList/img650x367.jpghttp://www.samer.no/2009/kirsti.jpghttp://www.samer.no/2009/kirsti_lisbeth.jpghttp://www.samer.no/2009/lisbeth2.jpghttp://www.samer.no/2009/aili.jpghttp://www.samer.no/2006/Vaarfest_bilder/001.jpghttp://www.samer.no/2006/Vaarfest_bilder/010.jpghttp://www.samer.no/Nyheter/17mai05/004.jpg
http://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel/5/52/529/529787/duolva960_1205526446.jpghttp://www.heiafestivalen.no/mSpider/_data/bildearkiv/m1248734197.jpg

Pallantides
06-13-2010, 11:38 PM
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/8943/yrkekauto73w.jpg
http://www.gierdu.no/kunstnere/OutiPieski.jpghttp://www.gierdu.no/kunstnere/MarjaHelander.jpghttp://www.gierdu.no/kunstnere/GjertRognli.jpghttp://www.gierdu.no/kunstnere/ArnoldJohansen.jpghttp://www.gierdu.no/kunstnere/GeirToreHolm.jpghttp://www.gierdu.no/kunstnere/LenaStenberg.jpghttp://www.gierdu.no/kunstnere/AslaugJuliussen.jpghttp://www.gierdu.no/kunstnere/AlfSalo.jpghttp://www.gierdu.no/kunstnere/MonicaEdmondson.jpg
http://www.nord-salten.no/images/root/2008/mai/samisk_lrebker_prosjekt_drag_skole.jpg
http://www.sapmi.no/Portals/24/Anne%20Louise%20ja%20Muzet%20Cuoivvat.jpg
http://www.sapmi.no/Portals/24/056.JPG
http://www.nord-salten.no/images/root/2008/februar/samisk_oddmund_andersen.jpg
http://www.nord-salten.no/images/root/artikkel_bilder/2007/april/samisk_mattis_eira.jpg
http://dynamic25.protu.no/pictures/104/dyndigi39896.jpg
http://www.hivand.no/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/samer_folk_flest.jpg
http://www.samer.se/images/350px/080705_do_samer_350.jpghttp://img6.custompublish.com/getfile.php/719351.136.wvwtabuvbs/ann_helen_1.jpg
http://img.imageshop.no/itest/9BA65/12/fi06gargia049-001f42-wm.JPG/fi06gargia049.jpeg
http://www.vbm.se/assets/images/samiska/samemarsch.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_WSQsPuiQ9Nc/S3e2Xpo6AYI/AAAAAAAAB8o/PXOzjMncL_4/s400/svensk+samisk+jente.jpg

Pallantides
09-05-2010, 04:54 PM
http://media1.origo.no/-/cache/image/1416836_hac1661d2f6304bb28dfc_v1276769671_1024x102 4_e.jpeg



Y-DNA haplogroup distribution among the Sámi:

Norwegian Sámi: 38.6% I1a, 40% N1c, 18% R1a, 3,4% R1b (population: 90,000)
Swedish Sámi: 31.4% I1a, 37.1% N1c, 20% R1a, 5.7% R1b, 5.7% F (population: 14,600)
Finland Sámi: 40.6% I1a, 55.1% N1c, 2.9% R1a, 1.4% R1b (population: 9,350)
Kola Sámi: 17.4% I1a, 39.1% N1c, 21.7% R1a, 8.7% R1b, 4.3% J, 8.7% E (population: 1,991)

Pallantides
12-04-2010, 01:15 AM
http://www.samer.no/2008/Konsert_6feb/001.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2007/Vennersfest07/001.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2007/SAMIS/009.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2007/17mai/002.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2007/Vaarfesten/006.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2006/Hostfest06/003.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2008/Frokost6feb/007.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2008/Konsert_6feb/009.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2008/Gudstjeneste_3feb/016.jpg

The Sápmi fotball team
http://www.sagat.no/assets/images/articles/837-fotball.jpg
(the guy sitting in the middle is part Brazilian)

Pallantides
12-04-2010, 01:24 AM
http://www.samer.no/2008/Spikersuppa/006.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2007/Hostfest/003.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2007/Hostfest/004.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2007/Hostfest/013.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2007/Hostfest/020.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2007/Hostfest/021.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2007/Lansmote_Bodo/001.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2007/Lansmote_Bodo/002.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2007/Lansmote_Bodo/008.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2006/Landsmote_Lasse/019.jpg

Pallantides
12-04-2010, 01:48 AM
Dear Pallantides.
You´re posting the ethnic Norwegians in the wrong Thread.
Because i must tell you, it don´t make sense .

So Norwegians usually wear a Gákti(the traditional Sámi tunic) and wave the Sápmi flag and celebrate the Sámi Day.



http://www.samer.no/2006/Festival/Liisa/010.jpg
http://www.samer.no/samisk_hus/014.jpg
http://www.samer.no/Nyheter/hostfest04_bilder/001.jpg
http://www.samer.no/Nyheter/hostfest04_bilder/007.jpg
http://www.samer.no/Nyheter/lansmote_harstad/004.jpg
http://www.samer.no/Nyheter/aarsmote05_bilder/007.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2006/Festival/Liisa/001.jpg



He posted a Soccer Team of Norwegians but i don´t why ?? :confused:
Especially it´s visible on the previous post that no one can be referred as samis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sápmi_football_team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A1pmi_football_team)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/02/Logo_lap.png
:rolleyes2:

Pallantides
12-04-2010, 02:01 AM
Now these are looking more Sami than the other posts.
Man on the right looks not Sami
http://www.samer.no/Nyheter/aarsmote05_bilder/007.jpg


that is the joiker and jurist Ánde Somby

http://somban.com/jpg/vill4.jpg
http://somban.com/jpg/vill3b.jpg

Pallantides
12-04-2010, 02:23 AM
http://www.samer.no/Nyheter/Vinterfestival_2005/Lordag_050205/013.jpg
http://www.samer.no/Nyheter/Vinterfestival_2005/6_februar/010.jpg
http://www.samer.no/Nyheter/2005_Kusustyrmote/001.jpg
http://www.samer.no/Nyheter/Landmote_Alta05/013.jpg
http://www.samer.no/Nyheter/Landmote_Alta05/014.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2006/Festival/Elle/016.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2006/Festival/Sara/011.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2006/Festival/Sara/012.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2006/Festival/Elle/018.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2006/Landsmote_Kirsti/005.jpg

The Journeyman
12-04-2010, 08:02 AM
Is there any history of warfare in the Sami culture? Are there historical records of any inter-tribal fighting or conflicts with the other Scandinavian peoples?

Sarmata
12-04-2010, 09:20 AM
MDTq9Ow7Fjw

They're-as we can see- very cheerful people.:D Seriously mongoli-form individuals are present but rather not dominant. As I know Sami people are mixed with Scandinavians, right?

Pallantides
12-04-2010, 02:58 PM
http://www.samer.no/2006/Landsmote_Lasse/012.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2006/Landsmote_Lasse/017.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2006/Vaarfest_bilder/002.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2006/Vaarfest_bilder/017.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2006/Vaarfest_bilder/018.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2006/Landsmote_Kirsti/008.jpg
http://www.samer.no/Nyheter/Vinterfestival_2005/Koftewalk_040205/009.jpg
http://www.samer.no/Nyheter/Vinterfestival_2005/Koftewalk_040205/012.jpg
http://www.samer.no/Nyheter/Vinterfestival_2005/Koftewalk_040205/013.jpg
http://www.samer.no/Nyheter/lansmote_harstad/005.jpg

Eldritch
12-04-2010, 08:46 PM
MDTq9Ow7Fjw

They're-as we can see- very cheerful people.:D Seriously mongoli-form individuals are present but rather not dominant. As I know Sami people are mixed with Scandinavians, right?

Umm, Korpiklaani are a Finnish band, not a Saami one, and that's just a Folk Metal version of an old Finnish folk tune.

Germanicus
12-04-2010, 08:53 PM
For me this Sami knife is perfection. :thumb001:

http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n449/ruffusruffcut/knifefromfinland.jpg

Pallantides
12-04-2010, 08:59 PM
Umm, Korpiklaani are a Finnish band, not a Saami one, and that's just a Folk Metal version of an old Finnish folk tune.

Isn't Jonne Järvelä(vocalist) of Sámi descent?

He used to be member of the Sámi music group Angelin tytöt and he is in the list of Sámi on wikipedia.

Eldritch
12-04-2010, 09:07 PM
Isn't Jonne Järvelä(vocalist) of Sámi descent?

He used to be member of the Sámi music group Angelin tytöt and he is in the list of Sámi on wikipedia.

Sure, but musically Korpiklaani doesn't really have any Sámi influences.

Well, this song features some joikhing, but that's about it.

s-LHc_oUCso

Pallantides
12-04-2010, 09:10 PM
:cool: Heavy Joik by Norwegian Sámi band Intrigue
gOWTJgRMTDo

Pallantides
12-05-2010, 01:20 AM
http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv11/nuoraidsiida/Nuoraid%20Siida/n804605091_4776976_2518.jpg
http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv11/nuoraidsiida/Nuoraid%20Siida/n804605091_4791947_1752.jpg
http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv11/nuoraidsiida/Nuoraid%20Siida/n804605091_4776979_3528.jpg
http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv11/nuoraidsiida/Nuoraid%20Siida/n804605091_4792203_7777.jpg
http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv11/nuoraidsiida/Nuoraid%20Siida/n804605091_4776981_3929.jpg
http://www.inga-sami-siida.no/Images/front003.jpg
http://www.galdu.org/govat/stuorra/t._nutti_photo_hans_olof_utsi.jpg
http://www.galdu.org/govat/galleri/roavvenjarga_ja_vel_demonstrasuvdna_115.jpg
http://www.galdu.org/govat/galleri/demonstrasjon_2_146.jpg

Pallantides
12-05-2010, 01:35 AM
http://gfx.nrk.no/e7E2uz2iI34nT9AOAqIjEQz6zix2AE-mdrTGa0DMhAhQ.jpg
http://www.galdu.org/govat/galleri/roavvenjarga_ja_vel_demonstrasuvdna_223.jpg
http://www.galdu.org/govat/galleri/roavvenjarga_2_beaivi_parlementarihkkarat_019.jpg
http://www.galdu.org/govat/galleri/042.jpg
http://www.galdu.org/govat/galleri/img_5082.jpg
http://www.galdu.org/govat/galleri/img_3993.jpg
http://www.galdu.org/govat/galleri/img_2518.jpg
http://www.galdu.org/govat/galleri/world_reindeer_herders_conference_089.jpg
http://www.home.no/elle-kare-gaup/mini1a.jpg
http://www.nrk.no/contentfile/file/1.6553619!f169CropList/img650x367.jpg

Agrippa
12-05-2010, 09:47 AM
The right one shows the Mongoloid influences, typical for the "Lappid core type":
http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv11/nuoraidsiida/Nuoraid%20Siida/n804605091_4791947_1752.jpg

Äike
12-05-2010, 10:00 AM
The right one shows the Mongoloid influences, typical for the "Lappid core type":
http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv11/nuoraidsiida/Nuoraid%20Siida/n804605091_4791947_1752.jpg

Almost 4 pages of Saami pictures and Agrippa finally finds a "stereotypical mongoloid Saami" and can now continue to think that the Saami aren't European. :clap2:

Agrippa
12-05-2010, 10:05 AM
Almost 4 pages of Saami pictures and Agrippa finally finds a "stereotypical mongoloid Saami" and can now continue to think that the Saami aren't European. :clap2:

The Sami are a people - a mixed people I might add and Lappid is a racial element and even that is rather diverse.

But crucial, that there is a Mongoloid element AMONG THEM - that doesn't make them completely foreign as a whole, or Mongoloid as a whole.

Note the difference.

Also I saw other variants approaching the Lappid core type status in this thread, this is just one of the more clear cases which I pointed out.

Most Samis are mixed and more European obviously.

Clear Lappid core type influences on the first page f.e. in her:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/Miriam_Paulsen_1.jpg/180px-Miriam_Paulsen_1.jpg

Äike
12-05-2010, 10:14 AM
The Sami are a people - a mixed people I might add and Lappid is a racial element and even that is rather diverse.

But crucial, that there is a Mongoloid element AMONG THEM - that doesn't make them completely foreign as a whole, or Mongoloid as a whole.

Note the difference.

Also I saw other variants approaching the Lappid core type status in this thread, this is just one of the more clear cases which I pointed out.

Most Samis are mixed and more European obviously.

Clear Lappid core type influences on the first page f.e. in her:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/Miriam_Paulsen_1.jpg/180px-Miriam_Paulsen_1.jpg

Of course they have foreign elements among them, but they're still predominately European. Most of them look less foreign in most of Europe than the Greek Cypriots, who you consider European. Yes, I have been to Cyprus, but I consider the Greek Cypriots, European. Although, in most cases, they look more foreign than the Saami.

aherne
12-05-2010, 12:59 PM
According to these pictures, the Lapps are:
1. Reduced Cro-Magnid (same large faced blondish ugly element as in Swedes)
2. Uralic (from their linguistic ancestors)
3. Aryan (via Germanics, probably a recent element)
4. Mongoloid (from very ancient admixture with Siberian reindeer herders)

Megrez
12-05-2010, 01:46 PM
http://www.galdu.org/govat/galleri/roavvenjarga_ja_vel_demonstrasuvdna_223.jpg
I would like to know the context of this manifestation.

Pallantides
12-05-2010, 01:53 PM
I would like to know the context of this manifestation.

They were demonstrating about the explotation of Saami culture by Finnish tourist industry




Sami youth from four countries, Norway, Finland, Sweden and Russia, descided to make a statement about how badly the Finnish tourist industry is using sami culture, clothes and livelihood

The Ripper
12-05-2010, 02:00 PM
Sámis are equally guilty of that "exploitation".

Pallantides
12-05-2010, 02:01 PM
Sámis are equally guilty of that "exploitation".

I'm not taking any sides, that's just what it said on the site I got the pictures from.

The Ripper
12-05-2010, 02:05 PM
I'm not taking any sides, that's just what it said on the site I got the pictures from.

I know. I simply find that the Sámi criticism of "cultural exploitation" falls on its own ass because they try to assume the role of the victim, when it was Sámis themselves who began to parade their culture around to tourists, before it got more organized. The problem is the tourism industry, it creates a market for this "cultural exploitation".

Agrippa
12-05-2010, 02:29 PM
Of course they have foreign elements among them, but they're still predominately European. Most of them look less foreign in most of Europe than the Greek Cypriots, who you consider European. Yes, I have been to Cyprus, but I consider the Greek Cypriots, European. Although, in most cases, they look more foreign than the Saami.

Cypriots have probably as much "extra-European", but less "extra-Europid" - which weighs more.

Though I agree with you that a large part of the Sami is phenotypically in the European spectrum.

As I said and I can just repeat it, Sami is an ethnocultural group, Lappid a racial type - they correlate but its not the same. Neither are all Norwegians and Swedes Nordeuropid...

Äike
12-05-2010, 02:56 PM
Cypriots have probably as much "extra-European", but less "extra-Europid" - which weighs more.

The word "probably" makes me assume that you haven't seen any Cypriots. But I have to point out that the majority of them would look foreign in Europe. I have no idea what "extra" admixture they have, but it shows and is several times larger than any possible admixture you are saying that the Saami people have.

Now when speaking about the Saami, a large portion of them wouldn't look out of place in most of Europe, excluding Southern-Europe.


Though I agree with you that a large part of the Sami is phenotypically in the European spectrum.

As I said and I can just repeat it, Sami is an ethnocultural group, Lappid a racial type - they correlate but its not the same. Neither are all Norwegians and Swedes Nordeuropid...

But still, you do not consider them Europeans. That is very puzzling.

Agrippa
12-05-2010, 03:02 PM
The word "probably" makes me assume that you haven't seen any Cypriots. But I have to point out that the majority of them would look foreign in Europe. I have no idea what "extra" admixture they have, but it shows and is several times larger than any possible admixture you are saying that the Saami people have.

Now when speaking about the Saami, a large portion of them wouldn't look out of place in most of Europe, excluding Southern-Europe.



But still, you do not consider them Europeans. That is very puzzling.

I can tolerate them in Europe, yet they are just not "as European" as lets say Norwegians, Spanish, French, Slovaks etc.

Right now I wouldn't put them out of Europe, I just wouldn't want the core element to be spread disproportionally - to put it simple, classic European variants are more desirable than Lappid, yet Lappoid mixes are tolerable, especially in their respective homelands, the areas for which their adaptation was made for.

Those Sami which are on the European side racially are obviously European and I see no biological problem with them from a racialist point of view.

The original Lappid people however were a foreign element, more foreign than Eastmediterranids from the Near East, in a way even more foreign than Armenids, even though the latter are in not necessarily preferable for a group of people and their genpool in my book...

Pallantides
12-05-2010, 03:16 PM
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2690/65088523.jpg
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/3663/anderss.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2007/Vaarfesten/005.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2007/Vaarfesten/014.jpg
http://www.samer.no/2006/Vaarfest_bilder/003.jpg
http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/5133/tw282905a.jpg
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5719/nilsjohangaup.jpg
http://g.api.no/obscura/pub/708x708r/03439/1284102342000_Sara_2_3439340708x708r.jpg
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/8236/67622994.jpg
http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/8220/20106132127371926355296.jpg

Megrez
12-05-2010, 03:21 PM
The fact Samis barely (if ever) appear in a European History book has to say a thing about them being not European.

Pallantides
12-05-2010, 03:27 PM
The fact Samis barely (if ever) appear in a European History book has to say a thing about them being not European.

I guess you just haven't read enough history from Scandinavia, in the old days they were refered to as "Finner" by the Norse people.





They Saami look much less foreign to a Scandinavian eye than many Southern Europeans, Middle Easterners and also some East Europeans.

The Ripper
12-05-2010, 03:36 PM
The fact Samis barely (if ever) appear in a European History book has to say a thing about them being not European.

Eh, the Sámis appear in plenty of history books.

Being insignificant in size and importance does not correlate with one's Europeaness.

Megrez
12-05-2010, 04:27 PM
Eh, the Sámis appear in plenty of history books.

Being insignificant in size and importance does not correlate with one's Europeaness.
I'm talking specifically about European History, from the mud, through Rome, dark ages, French revolution, until now.
Maybe it's just Brazilian History books, but, whatever, the scholars don't even deem covering Samis as important to the understanding of European History rofl.

The Ripper
12-05-2010, 04:32 PM
I'm talking specifically about European History, from the mud, through Rome, dark ages, French revolution, until now.
Maybe it's just Brazilian History books, but, whatever, the scholars don't even deem covering Samis as important to the understanding of European History rofl.

Are the Sorbs central to understanding European history? Are they mentioned in Brazilian history books?

Are they European?
:rolleyes:

Megrez
12-05-2010, 04:46 PM
Are the Sorbs central to understanding European history? Are they mentioned in Brazilian history books?

Are they European?
:rolleyes:
Central to understanding European History, no. The Faroese also aren't, I might add. However they have undeniable reasons to be considered Europeans.

I can swear however that I saw Sorbs mentioned in at least one book, almost a decade ago in school I think. Listed under "minorities in Germany" or something like that.

Edit:

Wait wait, damn, I had to take a look at the old few school books I still have here. I found the Samis mentioned in a Geography book, as a minority in Scandinavia which ought to be respected and "protected, so they can preserve their uniqueness".

Well, that's all. Who wrote "ligger" in the tags? Got me a good laughter.

The Ripper
12-05-2010, 04:48 PM
Central to understanding European History, no. The Faroese also aren't, I might add. However they have undeniable reasons for being considered Europeans.

I can swear however that I saw Sorbs mentioned in at least one book, almost a decade ago in school I think. Listed under "minorities in Germany" or something like that.

Surely you get the point: being important isn't necessary to be European.

Loddfafner
12-05-2010, 04:54 PM
From what I remember, European history books in the US focus on England, France, Germany, Italy, and maybe Spain, Holland, Russia, and Austria. They leave out all of Scandinavia and much of Eastern Europe. Sweden's stint as a world power, and Bohemia's cultural importance, surprised me when I learned about them much later, and I was frustrated when I went back to my old textbooks to learn more about them.

Perhaps the textbooks were cold war artifacts: pretend that there was nothing going on behind the Iron Curtain except a monolithic dictatorship, and that Scandinavia was nothing more than a model for social policies.

Pallantides
12-05-2010, 05:03 PM
They leave out all of Scandinavia


Atleast I hope your history books mentioned that the first European King to go on a crusade to the Holy Land was Norwegian ;):D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigurd_I_of_Norway


The historical 'golden age' of Norway(12th-13th century) seem to be largely unkonwn outside Norway.

Megrez
12-05-2010, 05:12 PM
I hold dear to me that the historical "golden age" of Norway was the Viking age. Although there was no single political entity called Norway at the time, but for the people of the North Way, the Viking age was surely the best.

Treffie
12-05-2010, 05:12 PM
When I was a kid in the 70s, there was a TV series called `The Boy from Lapland`, can't find a clip, but here's the tune (http://www.televisiontunes.com/Boy_From_Lapland_%28The%29.html).

Pallantides
12-05-2010, 05:21 PM
I hold dear to me that the historical "golden age" of Norway was the Viking age. Although there was no single political entity called Norway at the time, but for the people of the North Way, the Viking age was surely the best.

You're a fan of notorious miscegenators like the Vikings?:p


Under the years of Hĺkon Hĺkonsson and Magnus Lagabřte Norway was at the height of it's power and most likely the most powerful kingdom in Northern Europe at that time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haakon_IV_of_Norway

Sarmata
12-05-2010, 05:52 PM
Umm, Korpiklaani are a Finnish band, not a Saami one, and that's just a Folk Metal version of an old Finnish folk tune.

Sorry, I thought that those clip it's about Sami. Anyway I read that Korpiklaani wrote some lyrics in Sami language and some members of this group have Sami ancestry.:confused:

Pallantides
12-05-2010, 08:16 PM
When I was a kid in the 70s, there was a TV series called `The Boy from Lapland`, can't find a clip, but here's the tune (http://www.televisiontunes.com/Boy_From_Lapland_%28The%29.html).
the tune is 'Eadni Manna'(Mothers Child), but the original joik is named 'Eadni Nieida' (Mothers girl) ... guess they changed it a bit to fit the series.
dpXPvMeWTSc

Pallantides
12-08-2010, 09:27 PM
http://www.nrk.no/contentfile/file/1.6506299!f169CropList/img650x367.jpg
http://www.hifm.no/neted/upload/img/20100601/ToveUtsi.jpg
http://www.samiskhs.no//aimages/Kjell50_1210175615.jpg
http://skuvla.info/skolehist/kareninga.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_jbo6w1G8izw/S7cnMYKUp_I/AAAAAAAAALA/lcR7yxt_8RE/s1600/side+6+del+2+bilde.jpg
http://www.biathlonfreunde.de/assets/images/Somby_Ole_Henrik.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/8yyi44.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_jbo6w1G8izw/S7RipG-aAeI/AAAAAAAAAHw/56p1BOHtnvE/s1600/side+3+bilde.jpg
http://gfx.nrk.no/tG7CNgfepMrci_gTbLipUgGcyVK3a20V9LjIIw1GA4eQ.jpg
http://n-s.no/admin/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/imagemanager/files/client_113/articles/2010/aug/johan_turi_og_muitalus_s_miid_birra/news_1571_front_113_turi.jpg

Pallantides
12-15-2010, 06:23 PM
http://gfx.nrk.no/uzjeSojtG6x4cSXWwCY9SwJqsrFJycJpqTLb-b4JK60g.jpg
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5421/siri3.jpg
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/6530/torif.jpg
http://www.nrk.no/contentfile/file/1.6598890!f169CropList/img650x367.jpg
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/1595/anderseira.jpg
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/4496/im45p.jpg
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/1593/o34.jpg
http://studeantan.no/images/large/neahttaartihkal_042.jpg
http://gfx.nrk.no/zNDpuqguF9kFM6KbzUrdFwcne1U-QSkgTbTxWV2s2bVA.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/3381/mikely.jpg

Agrippa
12-15-2010, 06:49 PM
Extreme deviation not just from Europids but from the usual, especially more progressive human norm in general if it is about the eye-nasal root region again (like in the Norwegian women with Mongoloid influences):
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5421/siri3.jpg

Actually she is very extreme with those traits even for Mongolids, but completely out of the usual Europid range. The picture looks almost manipulated and reminds me of:
http://www.merkur-online.de/bilder/2009/12/16/559910/442627427-aufbruch-nach-pandora-kinostart-avatar.9.jpg

Pallantides
01-15-2011, 04:54 PM
http://samiskhs.no/aimages/IMG_5054_1287387359_250x375.JPGhttp://gfx.nrk.no/UMwJzBwueYTxGESbvAXmzAzniZTFyizBXG4ibWjey3vw.jpght tp://img.nrk.no/contentfile/file/1.6572286!f169CropList/img650x367.jpghttp://www.nearadio.no/uploads/pics/Sagka_Danielsen_02.jpghttp://gfx.nrk.no/INbUY_Cp56BC1HEKBfncdAaDuhYxXn0yO6xtGFHSRQ5w.jpght tp://gfx.nrk.no/mqHFG6zd1Rp6-eghy47i8gaRugC42a5-4WvRTNwin14w.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2582/4068111826_bb153a452d.jpghttp://www.samiskhs.no//aimages/IMG_5074_1287388041.JPGhttp://www.samiskhs.no//aimages/IMG_5047_1287386766.JPGhttp://n-s.no/admin/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/imagemanager/files/client_113/articles/2007/dec/musikalsk_og_personlig_vandring/news_2886_front_113_samisk_1_lars_andreassen.jpg

Agrippa
01-15-2011, 08:03 PM
http://samiskhs.no/aimages/IMG_5054_1287387359_250x375.JPG

Is she a prominent person? Very interesting and nice facial features she has, even strongly progressive too. Belongs in the beautiful Euro-women thread too imo, since even a half-Jewess is in it, a Sami can be put into it as well ;)

Äike
01-15-2011, 09:01 PM
http://samiskhs.no/aimages/IMG_5054_1287387359_250x375.JPG

Is she a prominent person? Very interesting and nice facial features she has, even strongly progressive too. Belongs in the beautiful Euro-women thread too imo, since even a half-Jewess is in it, a Sami can be put into it as well ;)

Agrippa, I am impressed (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=554), looks like you have changed your opinion about the Saami (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=286).

Agrippa
01-15-2011, 09:03 PM
Agrippa, I am impressed (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=554), looks like you have changed your opinion about the Saami (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=286).

The Saami as an ethnic group are highly mixed, their core and older tradition is essentially non-European nevertheless, but one can be tolerant about them these days, even if they are no "to the core" Europeans, but borderline ones.

Äike
01-15-2011, 09:06 PM
The Saami as an ethnic group are highly mixed, their core and older tradition is essentially non-European nevertheless, but one can be tolerant about them these days, even if they are no "to the core" Europeans, but borderline ones.

The Saami have some Samoyed influence but when talking about "older tradition", weren't all Europeans following the Saami lifestyle at one point?

Agrippa
01-15-2011, 09:10 PM
The Saami have some Samoyed influence but when talking about "older tradition", weren't all Europeans following the Saami lifestyle at one point?

Question is, would people like those you can find in the Grimaldi cave qualify as Europeans for later standards?

Just because they lived there, it doesn't mean they were Europeans, because Europeans in a racial, ethnic and cultural sense being something specific which is not bound to a specific geographic boundary, but rather a specific package people might take with them whereever they go and people which just live in Europe don't get automatically - as you can see with all the immigrants or foreign older ethnicities...

Äike
01-15-2011, 09:18 PM
Question is, would people like those you can find in the Grimaldi cave qualify as Europeans for later standards?

Just because they lived there, it doesn't mean they were Europeans, because Europeans in an racial, ethnic and cultural sense being something specific which is not bound to a specific geographic boundary, but rather a specific package people might take with them whereever they go and people which just live in Europe don't get automatically - as you can see with all the immigrants or foreign older ethnicities...

The Saami are genetically more European than most other Europeans ;) and I'm not surprised at their anthropological traits, even without the Samoyed admixture, considering how north they live.

Pallantides
01-16-2011, 12:07 AM
http://gfx.nrk.no/2dx778rxJy2o0gpvwixudQ2R0BcAnVc7XeyD-eVFmNTw.jpg
http://www.nrk.no/contentfile/file/1.6443195!f169CropList/img650x367.jpghttp://bionorden.se/Jarnna.JPG
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7306/img3301q.jpghttp://gfx.nrk.no/zgWMBCpPQT6PbsIVH9DmIA3EUfgkWIXaxlc4dB1tT_UA.jpg
http://ingapinga.blogg.no/images/244169-4-1238345459587-n400.jpg
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4810/isst.jpghttp://www.beaivvas.no/govat/smavva/maret_inga.jpghttp://images.biip.no/user/album/image/74779245296.jpghttp://img842.imageshack.us/img842/1159/hovedarticlelargeimage.jpg

aherne
01-16-2011, 06:20 AM
^ These are EXTREMELY diluted Lapps. It is like posing quadroons for a racial gallery of SSA...

Motörhead Remember Me
01-17-2011, 10:55 AM
^ These are EXTREMELY diluted Lapps. It is like posing quadroons for a racial gallery of SSA...

What do you know about dillution? I've seen a great deal Sami people and this is what they look like. The have the same variances in looks as all other Nordic peoples do.
From phenotype to genetics, Saamis carry same Y- and MtDNA's as the rest of Europeans with only a very small portion of more exotic haplotypes, why should they not have a great diversity among them or look mostly to other northern people?

Handpicked anthrosite-pictures of a roundskulled and narrow eyed Samis is projecting a false picture.

http://ohjelmaopas.yle.fi/files/ohjelmaopas/imagecache/ohjelmalistaus/files/ohjelmaopas/kuvapankki/unna_junna.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_BH2GYpcwUn4/TSNHJedgE6I/AAAAAAAAAEg/vkIFHcZA4wY/S220/mieee.jpg
http://img.mtv3.fi/mn_kuvat/mtv3/uutiset/kulttuuri/henkilot/630506.jpg
http://www.satuarkku.fi/kauppa/images/3353.jpg
http://www.elisanet.fi/maijala/skabma/P1261435.JPG
http://www.konserttikeskus.fi/easydata/customers/konserttikeskus/files/kuvakeet/angelitweb.jpeg
http://ohjelmat.yle.fi/files/ohjelmat/u904/suomi_tuli_saamenmaahan_Kirsti_L.jpg
http://personal.inet.fi/yritys/muotkanruoktu/timantti_files/image003.jpg
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:CIlifKHhe4GxlM:http://ohjelmat.yle.fi/files/ohjelmat/u904/suomi_tuli_saamenmaahan_kan.jpg

Motörhead Remember Me
01-17-2011, 11:01 AM
Extreme deviation not just from Europids but from the usual, especially more progressive human norm in general if it is about the eye-nasal root region again (like in the Norwegian women with Mongoloid influences):
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5421/siri3.jpg

Actually she is very extreme with those traits even for Mongolids, but completely out of the usual Europid range. The picture looks almost manipulated and reminds me of:
http://www.merkur-online.de/bilder/2009/12/16/559910/442627427-aufbruch-nach-pandora-kinostart-avatar.9.jpg

You Sir, are completely nuts.

That could be any Bodil from Örebro or Dagmar from Hamburg. "Europoid" as hell and nothing Mongoloid about her at all.

Motörhead Remember Me
01-17-2011, 11:08 AM
The Saami as an ethnic group are highly mixed, their core and older tradition is essentially non-European nevertheless, but one can be tolerant about them these days, even if they are no "to the core" Europeans, but borderline ones.

"Be tolerant"...
Because some of modern Samis are being the last of Europeans clinging on to the old ways makes the Saami non European?

Sword of the Morning
01-17-2011, 11:41 AM
You Sir, are completely nuts.

That could be any Bodil from Örebro or Dagmar from Hamburg. "Europoid" as hell and nothing Mongoloid about her at all.

I'm no expert, and I'm not drawing any conclusions about the Saami as a whole here, but when I see this woman:

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5421/siri3.jpg

"Europoid as hell" is hardly the first phrase that springs to mind. :scratch:

Pallantides
01-17-2011, 01:08 PM
Two more pictures of her
http://www.calliidlagadus.org/govat/smavva/siri_broch_johansen_1.jpghttp://gfx.nrk.no/rPuJqy3NDIgn7pn1pBqjFgIQI2JMpTP1CS1RjQXN2GOQ.jpg

Agrippa
01-19-2011, 03:46 PM
"Be tolerant"...
Because some of modern Samis are being the last of Europeans clinging on to the old ways makes the Saami non European?

European being the complete genetic and cultural package I talked about, because otherwise any Neandertal you find in a cave being more European than actual Europeans today.

And one minimum requirement for being European is, being totally or at least absolutely overwhelmingly Europid by race.

Now you can discuss about the definition of that, but obviously the Saamis, especially the unmixed Lappid core type, is not what comes to mind if talking about a European or even remotely classic Europid phenotype, for sure not.

And it is not just me, nor was it just about some "old outdated anthropologists", but is well known that the Saami, at least that mentioned core type, and this woman is an example for being heavily influenced by it, is a deviating racial form from both European and Europid standards.

If you have actual arguments against that opinion of most of the people which dealt with the subject, you can bring them forward, but talking about arguments, I mean talking about traits.

Her eyes are very small, the eyes extremely wide set, the nasal root is almost completely flat, nasal shape broad and short, not prominent at all, cheekbones go up and to the side, chin-jaw region is weak.

So tell me what, other than her hair and skin color, is so Europid about her?

And talking about that, you can find as light pigmented Central Asians which are obvious mixtures of Mongolid-Europid.

Now she is still more on the Europid side, in my opinion, than on the Mongolid, that is for sure, but she is still a racial deviation and individually very extreme with her eye-nasal region, actually even for many Mongoloids, as mentioned, because the majority of Mongoloids than have such extreme features.

Pallantides
01-19-2011, 03:58 PM
But he is sort of right about one thing ...she could be a "Bodil from Örebro" :D

Agrippa
01-19-2011, 04:10 PM
But he is sort of right about one thing ...she could be a "Bodil from Örebro" :D

If you say so :p

Talvi
01-19-2011, 04:16 PM
Even if this womans pigmentation was different, I think it would be difficult to find a place where she would fit in. Im not sure she would look average anywhere at all..

Pallantides
01-19-2011, 04:34 PM
If you say so :p

Well I have never seen anyone who look like her anywhere, but I'm sure there are a few who do... :p

Osweo
01-20-2011, 12:11 AM
Always in the Sami, I see a LOT that is familiar to me in Manchester. I'm not convinced that the 'weird' look is ONLY due to the eastern borealic Siberian element. I see hints of it in many people I grew up with. I feel that this is a kind of 'background' upon which later British looks were built.

Too many hypotheses are being accepted as fact when it comes to these people, I'm afraid.

The gender specific haplogroups do show an appreciable amount of connection with the whole tundra world, but this is far from being the FULL story. When fools talk of the 'pure' Sami of their mongoloid fantasies, they're neglecting the fact that even the western componant of the present people would look rather 'odd' to most of us in Europe today, and that they were already borealising without outside genetic input, most likely.

Don
01-20-2011, 12:19 AM
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5421/siri3.jpg

:eek::confused:

Guapo
01-20-2011, 12:20 AM
Are any of these hot Sámi women for sale?

Pallantides
01-20-2011, 03:10 AM
Many Saami women I have seen have a have bit bigger boobs than Norwegian women :Dhttp://img826.imageshack.us/img826/5097/dsc0050vx.jpg


Are any of these hot Sámi women for sale?
You want a Saami woman for marriage? http://www.sapmi.no/Portals/24/056.JPG

Pallantides
01-20-2011, 04:01 AM
http://www.nrk.no/contentfile/file/1.6627969!f169CropList/img650x367.jpghttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_g96lFk2Oo4o/Sn8qlwG4KrI/AAAAAAAACrA/rJtCYUI8OZg/s400/12.JPGhttp://gfx.nrk.no/tTO0I0_y53mkxOJzgkqf4gjl4jhnf8WBnKdv9LSD9yow.jpght tp://n-s.no/admin/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/imagemanager/files/client_113/articles/2009/feb/samisk_handverk_i_steigen/news_2342_front_113_samiskisteigen.jpghttp://www.sagat.no/assets/images/articles/1476-2paulsen.jpghttp://www.sagat.no/assets/images/articles/1495-2.gifhttp://www.sagat.no/assets/images/articles/1496-3.gifhttp://www.sagat.no/assets/images/articles/1475-3Mikkel-Sara-avvir.jpghttp://g.api.no/obscura/pub/298x1000r/00764/1139251745000_155119-Jan_Ailo_Nor_764693298x1000r.jpghttp://img717.imageshack.us/img717/6938/58654153833333208510474.jpg

Motörhead Remember Me
01-20-2011, 06:24 AM
Blaaaaaahhhhh...., but she is still a racial deviation .

Get a life. There are far more racial deviations among "Germanics" than among Saamis.

Agrippa
01-20-2011, 11:47 AM
Get a life. There are far more racial deviations among "Germanics" than among Saamis.

Well, you mean variation?

Variation is present among Germanics for sure, but in the Saami you can make up large categories in which most of them fit and one of this categories, in which many of them fit, is no longer a clear cut Europid type.

Now the same can't be said about any real Germanic population. They might have all European major types in them, actually they surely have, but non-Europid tendencies or influences are very, very, very rare.

Yet even in the obviously highly mixed Saami, a high percentage shows such a deviation towards the Mongoloid racial spectrum. Now as I said, I don't think that is such a huge problem these days, but it is just a fact and what's your problem with the truth?

Motörhead Remember Me
01-20-2011, 01:23 PM
No, I really mean racial deviation.

What is a "real Germanic" population? Where do I find one?

What do you mean by obviously highly mixed Saami?
Are you saying they are so "obviously highly mixed" that they cluster with the main populations where they live? Do you mean they are so "obviously highly mixed" that there are few real Saamis left while there are more "real Germanics"?

Be clear for once.

Agrippa
01-20-2011, 02:19 PM
No, I really mean racial deviation.

What is a "real Germanic" population? Where do I find one?

All Germanic people with Germanic ethnolinguistic ancestry without non-European admixture. So basically all Germanic speakers in Europe with the exception of some - among those people which might be half-Lappid ;)


What do you mean by obviously highly mixed Saami?

Some older anthropologists looked carefully at both unmixed (ethnolinguistic ancestry) Saami and mixed ones, the mixed ones looked VERY OFTEN more Alpinoid and close to many Alpinid-Nordid mixtures, rather Central European even from my point of view.

If you look at many modern series, it is obvious you deal VERY OFTEN with such mixed Lappid-Nordoid people and no "real Lappids", might they call themselves Saami or not.


Are you saying they are so "obviously highly mixed" that they cluster with the main populations where they live? Do you mean they are so "obviously highly mixed" that there are few real Saamis left while there are more "real Germanics"?

Genetically many might be half-half, phenotypically they are often already in the more European spectrum, but it is obvious that this is often the result of admixture with Germanics and possibly other people, including Finns.

Here are some mixed Lapps, they look like many of the modern examples shown, note the woman above, she looks rather Alpinoid:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6833&stc=1&d=1295536620

This are unmixed Lappids of the core type with the Mongoliform tendencies:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6834&stc=1&d=1295536719

Probably the Lapps as a people were mixed for quite some time, probably never purely of the type ascribed to them at all, but fact is, that this rather Mongoloid inspired variants are now even rare in some Saami communities must be also attributed to mixture with Europeans.

Pallantides
01-20-2011, 05:22 PM
Their autosomal DNA admixture seem to be more uniform than other Scandinavian peoples.




What do you mean by obviously highly mixed Saami?
Are you saying they are so "obviously highly mixed" that they cluster with the main populations where they live?

Norwegian Saami cluster east of North Russians.

Ibericus
01-20-2011, 05:36 PM
The Saami are genetically more European than most other Europeans ;) and I'm not surprised at their anthropological traits, even without the Samoyed admixture, considering how north they live.
Definately not the most european genetically :

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TP-9vRUMtZI/AAAAAAAADAk/fF_Dd5SfCnw/s1600/saami.png

Pallantides
01-20-2011, 05:40 PM
A genome-wide analysis of population structure in the Finnish Saami with implications for genetic association studies
http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ejhg2010179a.html

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9759/admixture.jpg
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/526/ibsq.jpg
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/5016/joiningtree.jpg

The understanding of patterns of genetic variation within and among human populations is a prerequisite for successful genetic association mapping studies of complex diseases and traits. Some populations are more favorable for association mapping studies than others. The Saami from northern Scandinavia and the Kola Peninsula represent a population isolate that, among European populations, has been less extensively sampled, despite some early interest for association mapping studies. In this paper, we report the results of a first genome-wide SNP-based study of genetic population structure in the Finnish Saami. Using data from the HapMap and the human genome diversity project (HGDP-CEPH) and recently developed statistical methods, we studied individual genetic ancestry. We quantified genetic differentiation between the Saami population and the HGDP-CEPH populations by calculating pair-wise FST statistics and by characterizing identity-by-state sharing for pair-wise population comparisons. This study affirms an east Asian contribution to the predominantly European-derived Saami gene pool. Using model-based individual ancestry analysis, the median estimated percentage of the genome with east Asian ancestry was 6% (first and third quartiles: 5 and 8%, respectively). We found that genetic similarity between population pairs roughly correlated with geographic distance. Among the European HGDP-CEPH populations, FST was smallest for the comparison with the Russians (FST=0.0098), and estimates for the other population comparisons ranged from 0.0129 to 0.0263. Our analysis also revealed fine-scale substructure within the Finnish Saami and warns against the confounding effects of both hidden population structure and undocumented relatedness in genetic association studies of isolated populations.


Median IBS sharing with the Saami
(top panel) was highest for the Russians (0.7434) followed by the
Orcadians (0.7408) and French (0.7403), indicating that genetic similarity
correlates with geographical distances. Compared with Russians
(center panel), within population IBS sharing for the Saami was more
variable (median absolute deviations of 0.0045 and 0.0021 for 30 Saami
and 25 Russians, respectively) because of genetic substructure within the
Saami.

Agrippa
01-20-2011, 06:13 PM
The interesting thing about the Lappid and Eastbaltid type is, that they are more Mongoliform than some other populations with a similar amount of Mongoloid admixture.

So this adds to my theory, that there was an original admixture, but the traits became more frequent through selection afterwards, than they would have been without.

Osweo
01-20-2011, 10:40 PM
If you look at many modern series, it is obvious you deal VERY OFTEN with such mixed Lappid-Nordoid people and no "real Lappids", might they call themselves Saami or not.
But how are we to determine who is 'mixed'?

By reference to self-fulfilling hypotheses that say 'European looking' Sami MUST be 'mixed'?

By labelling the most distinct types as 'pure'?

Or by close attention to family history and regional sub-groups' local history?



Probably the Lapps as a people were mixed for quite some time, probably never purely of the type ascribed to them at all, but fact is, that this rather Mongoloid inspired variants are now even rare in some Saami communities must be also attributed to mixture with Europeans.
WERE the mongoloid type ever found to be more common as a proportion?

What kind of mongoloid are we dealing with, anyway? Do the exact traits involved with the peculiar Sami individuals match the distinctively mongoloid traits of the Samoyeds? Or is this a special kind of mongoloid? WOuld 'para-mongoloid' make more sense?

The interesting thing about the Lappid and Eastbaltid type is, that they are more Mongoliform than some other populations with a similar amount of Mongoloid admixture.

So this adds to my theory, that there was an original admixture, but the traits became more frequent through selection afterwards, than they would have been without.
We KNOW there was mixture. The gender haplogroups show relations with Atlantic Europe AND eastern Siberia.
BUT, doesn't your first paragraph above suggest another hypothesis? I will outline below;

Expected Sami result;
West + East = median form.

Actual Sami result (according to your post);
West + East = more EASTERN (looking) form.

Might we better suppose that the Western element was already borealised to become something that appeared more 'mongoloid'?


**********


I hate this word 'Mongoloid'. It's as misleading to the layman as 'Caucasian'. :( Is there a more analytical term based on the TRAITS involved? Mongoloids don't look like Mongols, for the most part. Han, Hmong, Yakuts and Samoyeds are 'mongoloid' in VERY different ways.

Agrippa
01-21-2011, 07:16 AM
But how are we to determine who is 'mixed'?

By reference to self-fulfilling hypotheses that say 'European looking' Sami MUST be 'mixed'?

By labelling the most distinct types as 'pure'?

Or by close attention to family history and regional sub-groups' local history?

To begin with, there was known variation among them as soon as we have a record on them. But for example, one things was well known, they were statistically much darker than the surrounding populations. So if we have today such a high proportion of individuals with Nordoid influences, looking more like light Central European Alpinoids and such a low of the darker variants and especially the typically Lappid head and body proportions, Mongoliform traits, there must have changed something, it can't be that all the anthropologists were wrong.

And they obviously changed their way of life and intensified contacts with especially the Norwegian population even recently.


By reference to self-fulfilling hypotheses that say 'European looking' Sami MUST be 'mixed'?

By labelling the most distinct types as 'pure'?



Not European looking alone, because Alpinoid variants were noted among them, early on, too.

And you have to distinguish between two aspects of "mixing":
- ethnic
- racial

Because someone which looks part Nordoid is mixed, on a racial level, regardless of recent ancestry. That doesn't mean I necessarily doubt his recent Saami ancestry and identity. After all, the Saami are an ethnolinguistic group, like Norwegians, Swedes, Finns etc., not racial designation.

The racial designation is Lappid. If an individual is blond and blue eyed, more lean and rangier, narrower nose, face and head than an average Alpinoid even, we can clearly speak of "admixture" in a racial sense.

So a Saami-individual can be Nordoid and a Norwegian Lappid. Just to make that point clear.


Or by close attention to family history and regional sub-groups' local history?

That is very important indeed.


WERE the mongoloid type ever found to be more common as a proportion?

The Mongoloid influenced variants most definitely.


What kind of mongoloid are we dealing with, anyway? Do the exact traits involved with the peculiar Sami individuals match the distinctively mongoloid traits of the Samoyeds? Or is this a special kind of mongoloid? WOuld 'para-mongoloid' make more sense?

That is a very difficult question, since the mixture happened not in the light of history, with no modern populations, but in dark prehistoric times so to say.

But the Mongoloid element showed clear, this is now proven, relations to the Siberian populations, so we can assume an element similar to Sibirids.


Expected Sami result;
West + East = median form.

From what we see, the Europoid (Western) element should have been dominant early on.


Actual Sami result (according to your post);
West + East = more EASTERN (looking) form.

Only more than what you would have expect from that amount of mixture. I mean, practically no individual with less than 1/8 Mongolid admixture looks as Mongolid as the Lappid core type and Eastbaltids.

Actually most 1/4 Mongolid influenced individuals are less Mongoliform! Since we have that kind of mixture in our populations now, I can really observe that. The vast majority of second generation Mongolid-admixed individuals looks practically completely European, more so than most Lappid core type and Eastbaltid variants.

So if the genetic tests are right and the Mongolid admixture was so low, there must have been selection afterwards to spread those traits disproportionally.


Might we better suppose that the Western element was already borealised to become something that appeared more 'mongoloid'?

Part-Borealised features don't explain the specifically Mongoliform traits as we see them and the Mongoloid admixture suggests a different origin anyway.


I hate this word 'Mongoloid'. It's as misleading to the layman as 'Caucasian'. Is there a more analytical term based on the TRAITS involved? Mongoloids don't look like Mongols, for the most part. Han, Hmong, Yakuts and Samoyeds are 'mongoloid' in VERY different ways.

Well, I think it is an appropriate term and such a well established one, that it doesn't make sense to me to question it. Also, there is obvious racial variation among Mongoloids, but the same is true for other races as well...

Motörhead Remember Me
01-21-2011, 11:21 AM
All Germanic people with Germanic ethnolinguistic ancestry without non-European admixture. So basically all Germanic speakers in Europe with the exception of some - among those people which might be half-Lappid ;)
Then what do you think the Saamis would look like without that little non European admixture? European???
Is there such a real Germanic people somewhere?


Some older anthropologists Most older anthropology had 0 relevance with science.

looked carefully at both unmixed (ethnolinguistic ancestry) Saami and mixed ones, the mixed ones looked VERY OFTEN more Alpinoid and close to many Alpinid-Nordid mixtures, rather Central European even from my point of view.See? this is the problem, how the hell can one tell what a mixed or non mixed is? It is extremely subjetive to pinpoint what an unmixed phenotype would be. It's all nonsense.
I have decided that a typical representative for an unmixed pure German race would be this:
http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Everyone%20Else/images-5/heinrich-himmler.jpg
Everything else is mixed. This phenotype is totally 100% über German and to prove this I will travel to Germany this summer and photograph every bierstube and whorehouse to find proof of this unmixed, unreduced German race.


If you look at many modern series, it is obvious you deal VERY OFTEN with such mixed Lappid-Nordoid people and no "real Lappids", might they call themselves Saami or not.
100% nonsense, refuted above.

Your old photographs are handpicked to prove a stereotype, while Pallantides have made a great effort to post people who are nothing but pure Saamis. Like it or not.

Motörhead Remember Me
01-21-2011, 11:24 AM
Their autosomal DNA admixture seem to be more uniform than other Scandinavian peoples.


Exactly! This is what I mean. Saamis are less mixed than Scandinavians, so how the hell can the Saamis posted here be mostly a mix of Scandinavians and original Saamis?

So question bounces back to Agrippa, are Scandinavians a real Germanic population considering their larger autosomal spread? Or are Germans (I laugh already) a more real Germanic population? Or (now it's getting hilarious) maybe ze almost pan Slavic Austrians?

Motörhead Remember Me
01-21-2011, 11:31 AM
The interesting thing about the Lappid and Eastbaltid type is, that they are more Mongoliform than some other populations with a similar amount of Mongoloid admixture.

So this adds to my theory, that there was an original admixture, but the traits became more frequent through selection afterwards, than they would have been without.

Dear Agrippa, the definition of what is "mongoliform" is subjective.

Pallantides
01-21-2011, 01:51 PM
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/6214/larsailo.jpghttp://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4281/51953971295382908594.jpghttp://www.vadso.kommune.no/upload_images/B98789FD24BE4E2B851859EDFF241240.JPGhttp://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel/4/45/453/453965/Utsi_sak.jpghttp://gfx.nrk.no/XwW6zsyWJjz4ZZsKhdd_kA04ogM8PHd6xhn70g5S1HDA.jpght tp://oslopuls.aftenposten.no/multimedia/archive/00072/_mkul4haettaaNY0103__72909d.jpghttp://www.nrk.no/contentfile/file/1.6292974!f169CropList/img650x367.jpghttp://img708.imageshack.us/img708/8893/2667181847b6fe91c1beb.jpghttp://img262.imageshack.us/img262/3954/3735328924e37a4a428f.jpghttp://img801.imageshack.us/img801/5681/img38311277301579.jpg

Peerkons
01-21-2011, 02:32 PM
http://oslopuls.aftenposten.no/multimedia/archive/00072/_mkul4haettaaNY0103__72909d.jpg

I think I am in love:embarrassed

Agrippa
01-21-2011, 02:54 PM
Dear Agrippa, the definition of what is "mongoliform" is subjective.

Rather not.

Some basic traits are, among others:
- thick, straight hair with the specific cross section
- Epicanthus, small, often slanted eyes
- forward put cheekbones, flatter face
- weak nasal root and nasal prominence

etc.

Raikaswinţs
01-21-2011, 02:55 PM
the Sami appear to have a complex population history, suggesting a mixture of peoples arriving in Fenno-Scandia at different times, from different directions. Their physical appearance reflects this, varying from very European-looking with blond hair and blue eyes like Finns or Scandinavians, to almost indistinguishable from East Asians, indigenous Siberians, or Inuit.

Pallantides
01-21-2011, 03:00 PM
the Sami appear to have a complex population history, suggesting a mixture of peoples arriving in Fenno-Scandia at different times, from different directions. Their physical appearance reflects this, varying from very European-looking with blond hair and blue eyes like Finns or Scandinavians, to almost indistinguishable from East Asians, indigenous Siberians, or Inuit.


Lol... show me those who look indistinguishable from East Asians, indigenous Siberians, or Inuit.:rolleyes:


The same variation that exist in the Saami is also present in Scandinavians and Finns.

Ibericus
01-21-2011, 03:24 PM
To me all these Saami look like average Scandinavians. I don't see any difference, maybe it seems like a modern trend now to claim saami ancestry :confused:

Pallantides
01-21-2011, 03:29 PM
To me all these Saami look like average Scandinavians. I don't see any difference, maybe it seems like a modern trend now to claim saami ancestry :confused:

To be included in the Saami census you have to have either one parent or a grandparent who is Saami and speak one of the Saami languages as their mother tongue. Not just anybody can become a Saami, it's carefully regulated.

The Ripper
01-21-2011, 03:31 PM
To be included in the Saami census you have to have either one parent or a grandparent who is Saami and speak one of the Saami languages as their mother tongue. Not just anybody can become a Saami, it's carefully regulated.

Hmm. I wonder what would happen if someone proposed similar rules for us "average tax payers". :rolleyes:

Pallantides
01-21-2011, 03:34 PM
The Kven people also get national miniority status and special rights in Norway:D

Raikaswinţs
01-21-2011, 03:57 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/22/Sami_women.jpg

http://www.baarstua.no/Pictures/Alle%20foto%20Vidar%20Hoel/Boazo%20Sami%20Siida%20-%20familie%20copy.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Sea_sami_man.jpg

http://vivianfaithprescott.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/LAPP_MOTHER_AND_BABY_-_Kopi.6293308_std.jpg

http://www.baiki.org/images/postcard_mother.jpg

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7408/fd0817.jpg

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/666/lapphair.jpg

http://www.kaptillkap.se/bilder/Same%20i%20Norge.jpg

http://www.aber.ac.uk/en/media/samipeople.jpg

I don´t know man, but most of the old pictures that I find about sami people they display quite exotic features, and some show a clear mongolic touch. However most of the mndoern sami pictures that I see around they look like your average norwegian or Finn. Maybe during the last 100 years hey ahve been laegrly assimilated, or maybe the old pictures were cherry-picked by Agenda-guided anthropologists... or I don´t know.

Pallantides
01-21-2011, 04:00 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/22/Sami_women.jpg

http://www.baarstua.no/Pictures/Alle%20foto%20Vidar%20Hoel/Boazo%20Sami%20Siida%20-%20familie%20copy.jpg

http://vivianfaithprescott.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/LAPP_MOTHER_AND_BABY_-_Kopi.6293308_std.jpg



These don't look Asian... some of them might look exotic to southern europeans, but I have seen these sort of looks around and not only among the Saami people.



or maybe the old pictures were cherry-picked by Agenda-guided anthropologists.
Most likely :)

Most of the photos that exist of the Saami from the mid 19th to the early 20th century were taken by Anthroplogists.



Though there also exist some traveller illustrations and pictures like those by John Francis Campbell

Portrait of the Sami Anders Nilson From Karasjok, 1851.
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/5853/anders.png

Portrait of the Sami boy Lćme from Leavvajohka, 1851.
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9051/lappman2.png

From Campbell's journey to Norway 1852, portrait of a Sami fisher man with his son in his arms.
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5223/fisherlappson.png

Nicholaus. A young Sami boy sketched in Kota in Tromsř dalen.
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5075/samiboyscetch.png

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6995/lapper.png

A photography of Sami man from John Francis Campbell's expedition to Tromsř, 1865.
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/8103/picturelapp.png

Pallantides
01-21-2011, 06:05 PM
A couple of more by Francis


A photography of a Sami from John Francis Campbell's expedition to Tromsř, 1865.
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/379/48489519.jpg

From Campbell's journey to Scandinavia in 1849. He travelled in Northern Europe, mainly Norway and Sweden, for four months that year. Campbell left Trondheim on a steamer 8th of august. The picture shows the social life inside a turf-hut in a Sami camp in Tromsdalen in Tromsř
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/7268/lappfam3.jpg

Abraham Motka, Kven/Sami guide. From Campbell's journey to Scandinavia in 1849.
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/903/mootkha.jpg

Sami Boatman, From Campbell's journey to Scandinavia in 1851.
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/5357/boatman.jpg

Old Mathe, Portrait of an old Sami, " A drunken old fellow but a good hand."
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/3458/oldmathe.jpg

From Campbell's journey to Norway 1852. Portrait of a Sami boy outside the tent.
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/331/lappboy.png

Portrait of a Sami and his daughter.1851.
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/218/fjeldlapp.png

Petter Olafson Kackak, a wizard, 80 years old. From Campbell's journey to Sweden in 1850. Portrait of a Sami Shaman, a Noaide.
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5274/noaide.png

Samuel Samuelsen Mose, Randijauri, Keeper of a mountain station between Alten and Karasjok.
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7582/samul.png

Two portraits of a brother and sister.
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/1321/brothersister.png

Motörhead Remember Me
01-21-2011, 07:07 PM
Rather not.

Some basic traits are, among others:
- thick, straight hair with the specific cross section
- Epicanthus, small, often slanted eyes
- forward put cheekbones, flatter face
- weak nasal root and nasal prominence

etc.

Eeeh?

Now you describe Asians.

Motörhead Remember Me
01-21-2011, 07:09 PM
Hmm. I wonder what would happen if someone proposed similar rules for us "average tax payers". :rolleyes:

No more Irish national squad?

Agrippa
01-21-2011, 08:45 PM
Eeeh?

Now you describe Asians.

"Asian" is inadequate, because Asia is huge and has many races, but that's what Mongoloid is about, and if you can count some of those, as well as other traits in a person, the diagnosis of Mongoliform is for sure and Mongoloid influence likely.

Curtis24
01-22-2011, 03:03 AM
Well, I knew that most self-identified Sami are actually majority Caucasid, and this thread confirms that.

I'm also not sure how valid "Sami" or "lapplander" is as a cultural term. Culture is defined as behavior, and I don't believe that that the behavior/lifestyles of most self-identified Lapplanders differs significantly from other Westerners. Very few live as the traditional reindeer herders that personified Sami culture.

Seems to me being "Sami" these days is just an excuse for mostly Caucasian, Westernized Scandinavians to dress up...

Pallantides
01-22-2011, 03:15 AM
Well, I knew that most self-identified Sami are actually majority Caucasid, and this thread confirms that.

I'm also not sure how valid "Sami" or "lapplander" is as a cultural term. Culture is defined as behavior, and I don't believe that that the behavior/lifestyles of most self-identified Lapplanders differs significantly from other Westerners. Very few live as the traditional reindeer herders that personified Sami culture.

Seems to me being "Sami" these days is just an excuse for mostly Caucasian Scandinavians to dress up and believe they are somehow different from and special compared to other Westerners.


The reindeer was domesticated in the 16th century, the North Saami were the ones who did most of the herding, the coastal Saami and South Saami lived mostly of fishing and hunting.
All of these people are Saami as they are all part of the Saami census and can prove their Saami ancestry... if they took a genetic test they'd differ and be distinctive from other Scandinavians, no matter if their phenotype is Lappoid or Nordid.

Like I said earlier not just about anybody can call themselves Saami, though they can claim it, but it's not offical unless they are part of the census.

Curtis24
01-22-2011, 04:33 AM
Yeah, I get you, but I don't see being Sami, or proving one of your ancestors was Sami, as really being an important distinction. I'm sure that one of my ancestors was probably a Celt at one time; does this mean I am then justified as to claim some sort of different cultural status from other white, middle-class, Westerners?

As far as I can tell, vast majority of Samis are integrated into Western economies and live their lives fairly the same as non-Samis. And the majority also seem to have non-Lappid morphology. How then is "being Sami" different from being any other Scandinavian?

Pallantides
01-22-2011, 05:02 AM
They are Europeans, but they are neither Norwegians, Swedes, Finns or Russians they are the Sami people, they have are a distinctive ethnic and cultural group wich is different from other Scandinavian populations. The "lappid" or lack of "lappid" morphology have no relevance on their ethnic background and cultural identity.

A Norwegian from Vest-Agder with not a single Saami ancestor can look Lappid, but that don't mean he is a Saami.



proving one of your ancestors was Sami


It's not enough to prove you have Saami ancestor, you have to have either on parent or grandparent who is Saami(I think also great grandparent counts if they spoke on of the Saami languages), so even if you found out you had Saami ancestor 200 years ago or took a genetic test and found out you have a typical Saami DNA signature you'd still not qualify for membership in the Saami census.

Motörhead Remember Me
01-22-2011, 06:24 PM
maybe the old pictures were cherry-picked by Agenda-guided anthropologists... or I don´t know.

Bingo, you do know.

Agrippa
01-22-2011, 07:19 PM
Yeah, I get you, but I don't see being Sami, or proving one of your ancestors was Sami, as really being an important distinction. I'm sure that one of my ancestors was probably a Celt at one time; does this mean I am then justified as to claim some sort of different cultural status from other white, middle-class, Westerners?

As far as I can tell, vast majority of Samis are integrated into Western economies and live their lives fairly the same as non-Samis. And the majority also seem to have non-Lappid morphology. How then is "being Sami" different from being any other Scandinavian?

That's an important point, because by that standards a mulatto could be either a "Nordic Viking" or "Sudanid Mandinka", while he is neither, but a mulatto.

So from a racial standpoint, especially if the mixed ones claim very often "Sami identity", they are highly diluted, over some generations close to nothing (1/4 or less even?!).

Pallantides
01-23-2011, 12:52 AM
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/8148/vuokkohirvonen.jpghttp://img695.imageshack.us/img695/6233/170img.jpghttp://img38.imageshack.us/img38/4918/ingern.jpghttp://img8.imageshack.us/img8/2585/hannelena.jpghttp://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9679/jeanetteaslaksen.jpghttp://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5041/annmariandersen.jpghttp://img707.imageshack.us/img707/7770/saraqn.jpghttp://img826.imageshack.us/img826/7978/gardel.jpghttp://img97.imageshack.us/img97/7716/10973637.jpghttp://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4145/pervidar2.jpg

Agrippa
01-23-2011, 10:23 AM
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/7978/gardel.jpg

Those are pretty typical non-extreme Lappids.

She has obvious Nordeuropid influences:

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5041/annmariandersen.jpg

Pallantides
01-23-2011, 09:31 PM
The traditional Saami costumes

From 'Saltfjellet(South Saami: Saltoduottar') to 'Femunden'/South Saami
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/2706/srsamiskdrakt.png

Lule Saami
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2205/lulesamisk.png

North Troms and Western Finnmark
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9647/nordtromsvestfinnmark.png

Porsanger, Tana and Karsjok
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/7735/porsangertanakarasjok.png

Kautokeino
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5182/kautokeino.png

Nessby
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/3213/nessby.png

Sřr-Varanger
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/710/srvaranger.png

Some large pictures:
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/9061/pa300034f.jpg
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/6614/img8432aw.jpg
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/5681/img38311277301579.jpg

Motörhead Remember Me
01-24-2011, 11:46 AM
Here is actually a real mixture, half Finnish Saami and half Italian girl:
http://mediaserver-2.vuodatus.net/g/1/12213/1270758506_img-d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e.jpg
All Saamis:
http://www.nuorat.se/media/trotta_sprinters.jpg
http://www.nuorat.se/media/kuorak_och_johanna.jpg
This one has to be half Asian:
http://www.nuorat.se/media/laila.jpg
http://www.nuorat.se/media/joavkugovva.jpg
http://www.nuorat.se/media/tv_orna.jpg
http://www.nuorat.se/media/ettorna.jpg
http://www.nuorat.se/media/stafett.jpg
http://www.nuorat.se/media/silje_helena_och_ina_theres.jpg
http://www.luontoon.fi/image.asp?Image=Att17629%5Cwebatt_20090609_143716_ 768047.jpg

Motörhead Remember Me
01-24-2011, 11:47 AM
http://www.lapinkansa.fi/cs/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobkey=id&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1195354493587&ssbinary=true
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/t0pYhhhLjXs/0.jpg
http://yle.fi/ecepic/archive/00160/SomBy__n_pojat_160519b.jpg
http://img.mtv3.fi/mn_kuvat/mtv3/uutiset/kotimaa/poliitikot/595000.jpg
http://www.suomenlatu.fi/@Bin/925043/IMG_4983.jpeg
http://img.mtv3.fi/mn_kuvat/mtv3/uutiset/kotimaa/muut_henkilot/502219.jpg
http://sverigesradio.se/diverse/appdata/isidor/images/news_images/989/1394203_520_292.jpg
http://img.mtv3.fi/mn_kuvat/mtv3/uutiset/kotimaa/ajankohtaista/2007/vaalit_07/424105.jpg
http://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel/5/52/524/524002/gaup1_1200478494.jpg
http://media.saariselka.twinapex.fi/kulttuuri/saamelaiset/kesa/lapintytto06001_400x_06mek.jpg

demiirel
01-24-2011, 12:56 PM
Sami are Uralic. Indigenous Mongoloid Uralic people still live more than 2000 km east of the Ural mountains, deep, deep in Mongoloid Asia. Uralic Samoyed people used to live in northern Mongolia and Buryatia ("Sayan-Baikal region" as someone wrote in Wikipedia). Therefore all the Uralic people in Europe (Finns, Hungarians, Estonians, Sami, Karelians et cetera) have Mongoloid connections. I'm sure the Grand Prince Arpad looked noticeably Mongoloid, much like the marble Genghis-bust you see to the left.

Äike
01-24-2011, 02:10 PM
Sami are Uralic. Indigenous Mongoloid Uralic people still live more than 2000 km east of the Ural mountains, deep, deep in Mongoloid Asia. Uralic Samoyed people used to live in northern Mongolia and Buryatia ("Sayan-Baikal region" as someone wrote in Wikipedia). Therefore all the Uralic people in Europe (Finns, Hungarians, Estonians, Sami, Karelians et cetera) have Mongoloid connections. I'm sure the Grand Prince Arpad looked noticeably Mongoloid, much like the marble Genghis-bust you see to the left.

No Mongoloid person is indigenous Uralic and Samoyeds are of pure Siberian stock, but adopted an Uralic language.

Even today, the majority of Finno-Ugrics living near the Urals look (Northern) European. Which is quite amazing, considering for how long they have lived next to Tatars, Turkics, Siberians etc.

For example, it's quite easy to spot an Udmurt-Tatar mix from a real Udmurt. Udmurtia has a considerable population of Tatars.


Oh and if you're a Mongolian, elephants swim under water(;)), as your views are stereotypically Russian.

esaima
01-24-2011, 02:37 PM
Many Saami women I have seen have a have bit bigger boobs than Norwegian women.
I think this boob-size issue may depend on subrace.

Pallantides
01-24-2011, 02:50 PM
I think this boob-size issue may depend on subrace.

I was just joking actually... both Norwegian and Saami boobs come in all shapes and sizes.

Agrippa
01-24-2011, 06:10 PM
http://www.nuorat.se/media/trotta_sprinters.jpg

The one to the left has a cranium-head which is the total opposite of a Lappid, seems to be very Nordoid/Aurignacoid.

He must be non-Sami or mixed.

http://www.nuorat.se/media/laila.jpg

She is fully Asian (rather Palaemongolid?), so foreigners were present!

This individual is typically Lappid of the somewhat more Alpinoid kind still:
http://www.suomenlatu.fi/@Bin/925043/IMG_4983.jpeg
http://img.mtv3.fi/mn_kuvat/mtv3/uutiset/kotimaa/muut_henkilot/502219.jpg

Pallantides
01-26-2011, 04:29 AM
That girl is either non-Saami or adopted(just like any other people Saami can also adopt children)


http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4496/sami3.jpg

Some old pictures.
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4612/sabbasarak.jpghttp://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9093/soffa.jpghttp://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1103/bavvalanne.jpghttp://img189.imageshack.us/img189/8463/bonakas1919.jpghttp://img13.imageshack.us/img13/975/gustava.jpghttp://img19.imageshack.us/img19/6561/baukop.jpghttp://img821.imageshack.us/img821/387/skarfvaggiw.jpghttp://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9787/klemetturi.jpghttp://img834.imageshack.us/img834/1479/jokkm.jpg

Pallantides
01-29-2011, 05:07 PM
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/5544/antegaup.jpghttp://img833.imageshack.us/img833/3776/49058313.jpghttp://img708.imageshack.us/img708/3198/samisklandslagskjorte.jpghttp://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2681/annhelenguttorm.jpghttp://img829.imageshack.us/img829/217/risten.jpghttp://img513.imageshack.us/img513/8070/bjrnihsara.jpghttp://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7972/aslak.jpghttp://img695.imageshack.us/img695/5893/marite.jpghttp://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4742/inak.jpghttp://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2774/mathishtta.jpg

Agrippa
01-29-2011, 06:31 PM
Interesting comparison of rather Nordoid vs. Lappid-Eastbaltid with stronger Mongoloid influences:
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2681/annhelenguttorm.jpg vs. http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/217/risten.jpg

Don Brick
01-29-2011, 06:37 PM
^Both look like pretty regular Scandinavians/Northern Europeans to me. While I do find the one on the left more attractive for sure I don´t think I´d ever make any kind of meaningful distinction between them if I were to meet these two. Normal variations in looks, nothing strange there.

Pallantides
01-29-2011, 08:42 PM
I agree with Don Draper, but I prefer the one on the right.


Though I must say I prefer the appearance of Inga Marja over both of those women:
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/33/ingamarja.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1425/ingamarja2.jpghttp://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4461/ingamarja3.jpghttp://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4995/ingamarja4.jpg

Agrippa
01-31-2011, 06:14 PM
^Both look like pretty regular Scandinavians/Northern Europeans to me. While I do find the one on the left more attractive for sure I don´t think I´d ever make any kind of meaningful distinction between them if I were to meet these two. Normal variations in looks, nothing strange there.

Seriously? I know many half-South Asian which morphologies are less Mongoloid than that of the right one.

This look is pretty foreign, especially with the combination of traits. The nose/nasal area is actually "anti-Europid" to put it that way, cheekbones too. That are not just deviations, they represent an anti-thesis.

Would she be dark, you would see her as Central Asian-/Mongolid-Europid like I guess...

Jamt
01-31-2011, 06:24 PM
Dangerus people, the Sami. If as a turist up North, you are walking in the wild, do not ewer make eye-contact with a Lapp. He or she will charge right at you and bite you in the crotch, its in thier nature.

Pallantides
01-31-2011, 06:36 PM
Dangerus people, the Sami. If as a turist up North, you are walking in the wild, do not ewer make eye-contact with a Lapp. He or she will charge right at you and bite you in the crotch, its in thier nature.

:laugh:

True... especially the women!:p

aherne
01-31-2011, 06:38 PM
Seriously? I know many half-South Asian which morphologies are less Mongoloid than that of the right one.

This look is pretty foreign, especially with the combination of traits. The nose/nasal area is actually "anti-Europid" to put it that way, cheekbones too. That are not just deviations, they represent an anti-thesis.

Would she be dark, you would see her as Central Asian-/Mongolid-Europid like I guess...

What if we imagine wrongly that the Urals (pretty unimpressive mountains) have ever formed a true racial barrier? I think pure Uralic look, especially one that shows platinum blonde hair (which is an antithesis of Mongoloid), is a mere case of archaic Caucasoid slighly transitional to Mongoloid. Grey eyes, platinum hair, paper-white skin, the hallmarks of Uralic race, are not just untypical, but unheard of among Mongoloids. Even Volga Tatars, who are just 25% Mongoloid, the other parts being Aryan and Uralic (both blond people), are commonly black haired and black eyed.

The main part you must understand is that Urals have never formed a neat racial barrier. Both Uralics and their ancient neighbors, Yeniseians, show transitional features as part of an ancient racial gradation zone...

Agrippa
01-31-2011, 06:43 PM
Don't need to tell me that, it is true for Sibirids even, which are partly transitional to Europids from the Mongolid side like Lappid and Eastbaltid from the Europid: They are clearly Mongolid, but show Europoid tendencies.

So there is this transitional+mixed zone, but point is, these morphological traits she has are not Europid and quite strongly Mongoloid/Mongoliform, even in comparison to most Eastbaltids and Lappid core types.

Pigmentation doesn't mean so much, because you can find blond Mongols even, through admixture most of the time of course, yet they exist.

If they can pop out of a mixture, they can be selected afterwards and since Lappid and Eastbaltid was always more Europid than Mongoloid, that is no suprise neither in the European light pigmentation zone.

demiirel
02-01-2011, 03:46 PM
Don't need to tell me that, it is true for Sibirids even, which are partly transitional to Europids from the Mongolid side like Lappid and Eastbaltid from the Europid: They are clearly Mongolid, but show Europoid tendencies.

So there is this transitional+mixed zone, but point is, these morphological traits she has are not Europid and quite strongly Mongoloid/Mongoliform, even in comparison to most Eastbaltids and Lappid core types.

Pigmentation doesn't mean so much, because you can find blond Mongols even, through admixture most of the time of course, yet they exist.

If they can pop out of a mixture, they can be selected afterwards and since Lappid and Eastbaltid was always more Europid than Mongoloid, that is no suprise neither in the European light pigmentation zone.

I agree. The Lappid and Eastbaltid people are "border people", showing transitional features. Mongols and Sibirids are clearly Mongoloid, but show Europoid tendencies. The videos below only focus on hair color, but I've seen many Mongoloid Mongols and Sibirids with semi-Europoid facial features (nose, eyes) and very pale pinkish skin.

l6RwZcethUw

HhxlBAfHZtE

Agrippa
02-01-2011, 04:38 PM
Most of the Mongols have clearly classic and strong Mongolid features, but individual exceptions show the Europoid tendencies present due to recent admixture (with Indo-Europeans).

Sibirids though have often very old admixture and transitional tendencies, they are a "relict race" to a certain degree, because classic Europids and classic Mongolids came from two sides and changed their fringes, so that oftentimes it is not that clear whether one deals with very ancient or more recent admixture (since the Neolithicum).

Pallantides
02-05-2011, 02:40 AM
xMXD1nzUJ1E

Lol, a funny music video about a Salesman from Jćren(South-West Norway) traveling in Northern Norway and trying to sell Vacuum cleaner to an alcoholic Saami.

Pallantides
02-12-2011, 12:02 AM
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/7403/randomsaami.png

Pallantides
02-12-2011, 03:15 PM
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/8677/samiskjenteoggutt.jpg
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/2842/890950101297169260779.jpg
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/5559/89095071295347380931.jpghttp://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9804/christinak.jpghttp://img834.imageshack.us/img834/3275/halvard.jpghttp://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1783/84001623.jpghttp://img829.imageshack.us/img829/574/markomennu.jpg




Saia Stueng - Saami youth politican
BQlRSxP76Bs
http://bloggfiler.no/saiastueng.blogg.no/images/890950-10-1297169201923.jpghttp://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9440/saia2.png
http://www.sagat.no/assets/images/articles/1264-557Stueng,-Saia-i-Oslo-ute.jpg

la bombe
02-28-2011, 06:59 AM
I was reading this Swedish girl's blog and wondered about her looks because she has the craziest cheekbones I've ever seen, and it turns out she's Sami

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5257/5478453715_08bfdce947_o.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5098/5479052944_0815ce08c7_o.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5133/5456711885_6e945bbcc9_o.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5249/5380963873_ea5265a537.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5121/5361946946_6da72aa70c.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4002/4429344152_b56ecbf2a7.jpg

Very unique facial structure IMO.

Pallantides
03-03-2011, 07:30 AM
Apart from the large and magnificent cheekbones, she don't look that exotic. In the last picture she looks very nice.

la bombe
03-03-2011, 07:43 AM
Apart from the large and magnificent cheekbones, she don't look that exotic. In the last picture she looks very nice.

I think she's gorgeous, I've just never seen anyone with that facial structure before.

Agrippa
03-03-2011, 04:27 PM
Apart from the large and magnificent cheekbones, she don't look that exotic. In the last picture she looks very nice.

She looks definitely like a Mongolid skull with Europid soft parts and pigmentation.

Motörhead Remember Me
03-04-2011, 08:58 PM
I was reading this Swedish girl's blog and wondered about her looks because she has the craziest cheekbones I've ever seen, and it turns out she's Sami

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5257/5478453715_08bfdce947_o.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5098/5479052944_0815ce08c7_o.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5133/5456711885_6e945bbcc9_o.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5249/5380963873_ea5265a537.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5121/5361946946_6da72aa70c.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4002/4429344152_b56ecbf2a7.jpg

Very unique facial structure IMO.

They are prominent but I still do not see anything specifically mongoloid about her.

Motörhead Remember Me
03-04-2011, 09:02 PM
Sami are Uralic. In the sense their language belongs to the Uralic languages.

Indigenous Mongoloid Uralic people still live more than 2000 km east of the Ural mountains, deep, deep in Mongoloid Asia. [
Uralic Samoyed people used to live in northern Mongolia and Buryatia ("Sayan-Baikal region" as someone wrote in Wikipedia). Therefore all the Uralic people in Europe (Finns, Hungarians, Estonians, Sami, Karelians et cetera) have Mongoloid connections. I'm sure the Grand Prince Arpad looked noticeably Mongoloid, much like the marble Genghis-bust you see to the left.
Mostly nonsense in your post.

Franz
03-06-2011, 12:26 AM
That is beyond mongliform to the stage of real Mongoloid.

her Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sunnakatarina/sets/72157622670118073/
blog: http://sunnakatarina.blogspot.com/

Compare with Asians.

http://i.imgur.com/kglA0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dCgQ7.jpg

Pallantides
04-07-2011, 08:36 PM
^That Saami girl could be any Scandinavian chick...



http://gfx.nrk.no/YrpSh1FZfGlEFpc51QT09wt-k9nPVhi_9JVg2_w5Q1iw.jpg
http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/3903/ingolf.jpg
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5115/6feb009.jpg
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/9431/elleutsi.jpg
http://gfx.nrk.no/SWlkXD37JfP04r71E75gHwH1dLFD0PH6mLleUMicJS0A.jpght tp://www.fefo.no/no/presse/PublishingImages/Jan%20Henrik%20H%C3%A6tta.jpg
http://g.api.no/obscura/pub/298x1000r/00709/1132076007000_175539-Elle_forside_709900298x1000r.jpg
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/6522/johannmattishttahtta.jpg
http://www.sagat.no/assets/images/articles/754-klemet.jpg
http://gfx.nrk.no/Z5e63ckCmMQIjRhFP2_gNwYcqp4TVQVlB44H4n7j2NkQ.jpg
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/7812/likestilling06ffk.jpg
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/9784/sarabjrne.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/7725/annepve.jpg
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1985/monikan.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7931/olofmarsja1.jpg

Black Sun Dimension
04-07-2011, 08:50 PM
They are a very pretty stock. I like their high cheeckbones and beady eyes; they remind me of me.

Pallantides
04-07-2011, 09:12 PM
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7303/anso2.jpghttp://img821.imageshack.us/img821/9396/birranord.jpghttp://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3192/danerikfjllman.jpghttp://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8277/fredrikprost.jpghttp://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4158/golfi.jpghttp://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3671/hannaoutakoskiweb.jpghttp://img806.imageshack.us/img806/6215/jokkmokksstipendiater2w.jpghttp://img198.imageshack.us/img198/6006/lindadynesius.jpghttp://img541.imageshack.us/img541/4557/nilsjohaneira.jpghttp://img146.imageshack.us/img146/303/perhenrikbergqvist.jpghttp://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7572/thereseenokssonfridh.jpghttp://img839.imageshack.us/img839/5766/wmarjapvesaraelnkuhmune.jpghttp://img52.imageshack.us/img52/9813/wylvamp1.jpghttp://img33.imageshack.us/img33/6761/wbeskurnilsjonaspersson.jpghttp://img858.imageshack.us/img858/5213/sommarfashionomslag.jpg

Agrippa
04-08-2011, 07:51 AM
These two are classic Nordid (predominantely at least, especially the boy):
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3192/danerikfjllman.jpghttp://img821.imageshack.us/img821/9396/birranord.jpg

Totally untypical for Sami. Must be Germanic mixed if not pred. so.

billErobreren
05-05-2011, 05:52 PM
Well most Saami that I've been exposed look Scandinavian/indistinguishable and have lots of predominant assimilated Scandinavian ancestry going by their DNA & are also more European than many in the same continent. The language of the Saami people is Uralic but has lots of Finno-Ugric influence, hence predominant Indo-European/Prehistoric European language. There are some questionable racial, ethnic & cultural ones though, They have always fascinated me, that said they only cling to their old customs & have a little variety, is that a reason to cast them aside?

billErobreren
05-05-2011, 05:57 PM
Many Saami women I have seen have a have bit bigger boobs than Norwegian women :Dhttp://img826.imageshack.us/img826/5097/dsc0050vx.jpg


You want a Saami woman for marriage? http://www.sapmi.no/Portals/24/056.JPG

keep posting these cuties & I might.
truth be told I don't really believe in marriage but nice hooters are always a plus

Pallantides
05-17-2011, 04:05 AM
These two are classic Nordid (predominantely at least, especially the boy):
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3192/danerikfjllman.jpghttp://img821.imageshack.us/img821/9396/birranord.jpg

Totally untypical for Sami. Must be Germanic mixed if not pred. so.

I assume this Pasthun man is also pred Germanic:wink
http://i41.tinypic.com/ei9nis.jpg

The girl looks very Saami imo.




Actually the Saami have less East and North Asian admixture than the Central and South Asian populations like the Burusho, Nuristani and Kalash.

Pathan & Burusho from Dodecad
http://imageshack.us/m/802/5672/dodecadpathanandburusho.png
Red - East Asian
Northeast Asian

Agrippa
05-17-2011, 07:12 AM
The Pathan is highly progressive, but he is rather Irano-Nordoid with Dinaroid/Taurid tendencies.

I agree that the girl shows deviating traits of significance, still she is more Nordoid than anything and the boy is definitely a pred. Nordid bloke.

Olavsson
05-17-2011, 04:13 PM
The girl looks very Saami imo.


Huh? I would never have been able to distinguish her from any pre-dominantly Germanic-descended Northern European.
It's interesting to see that the Saamis have a lot of variation regarding phenotypes.

Pallantides
05-17-2011, 04:25 PM
When I have been to Finnmark I have seen many Saami girls with simillar features as her.


Huh? I would never have been able to distinguish her from any pre-dominantly Germanic-descended Northern European.


well not every Saami look like this:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_BtsHSG2u4-o/SYwwwaAm2LI/AAAAAAAAAH8/XzGrmf69Q4o/s320/Sverre_Porsanger_i_D_21665c.jpg



They have the same variation as other North European populations.

Agrippa
05-19-2011, 09:26 AM
Actually the Saami have less East and North Asian admixture than the Central and South Asian populations like the Burusho, Nuristani and Kalash.

The difference is, though, that the admixture in the Iranian populations is more recent and not evenly distributed and, which is most important, among them was no selection for Mongoliform-Borealised traits to spread the Mongoloid features beyond the actual admixture percentage.

Lappids have a much higher rate of Mongoloid traits vs. Admixture, whereas the opposite is true for various other populations, where the Mongoloid traits were most likely even selected out.

Numerical admixture and the racial outcome is not always the same.

Similar to a light pigmented race going in a highly UV-exposed area and losing ground there, whereas being positive selected in a respective low UV-exposed area. Similar in this case, the admixture just proves the genflow, it doesn't HAVE TO mean that the racial characteristics correspond to the admixture percentage so directly, since selection might have been much more important.

And the variation in the Sami is definitely larger, since the Lappid core type is an absolutely extreme type for Europe and they have virtually all kind of other Europid admixtures in the genpool. This results in a very wide variety of phenotypical variants in their population with peculiar extremes, like Lappid core type vs. Nordoid.

Represent one end, the Nordoid:
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3192/danerikfjllman.jpghttp://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2681/annhelenguttorm.jpg

Basic Lappid:
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/7725/annepve.jpghttp://img826.imageshack.us/img826/7978/gardel.jpg

This represents the other end, the Lappid core type:
http://www.baiki.org/images/postcard_mother.jpg

General Mongoloid influences, basically close to the Lappid core type, but relatively more depigmented:
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/217/risten.jpg

Curtis24
05-20-2011, 12:09 AM
Most of the Mongols have clearly classic and strong Mongolid features, but individual exceptions show the Europoid tendencies present due to recent admixture (with Indo-Europeans).

Sibirids though have often very old admixture and transitional tendencies, they are a "relict race" to a certain degree, because classic Europids and classic Mongolids came from two sides and changed their fringes, so that oftentimes it is not that clear whether one deals with very ancient or more recent admixture (since the Neolithicum).

What? Indo-European mixture? They really got around :eek:

Agrippa
05-20-2011, 08:52 AM
What? Indo-European mixture? They really got around :eek:

Both ancient Proto-Europoid, but even more Indo-European admixture.

In Mongolia you can find graves related to the Scythian steppe culture.

Its been genetically proven in meantime also:


A western Eurasian male is found in 2000-year-old elite Xiongnu cemetery in Northeast Mongolia

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/01/r1a1u2e-male-in-2000-year-old-mongolian.html

If you think about Eastern Indo-European migrating along the steppes, this is easy to get.

After all, the Turks and Mongols just used the same path, after having won the wars against their former steppe-warrior teachers, to reach Europe...

Panopticon
05-20-2011, 09:15 AM
There is also the Tocharians that lived in Central-Asia before Turkic peoples invaded Central-Asia, most likely from somewhere around Mongolia. European-Mongolian admixture seems to be quite normal among Central-Asians.

Read this if you'd like.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2008/03/uyghurs-are-hybrids/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC419996/?tool=pubmed

Agrippa
05-20-2011, 09:38 AM
Well, modern Uyghurs are the best example for that pattern as half-halfs (largely).


There is also the Tocharians that lived in Central-Asia before Turkic peoples invaded Central-Asia, most likely from somewhere around Mongolia.

Tocharians were strong in the area of Xinjiang:
http://www.businessfacilities.com/blog/uploaded_images/china.xinjiang.province.lg-707488.jpg

Franz
05-20-2011, 11:05 PM
Lapps in last row. Compare their morphological differences and CIs of 87.5 to the first two rows.

http://i.imgur.com/Sv4oh.jpg

Lapp skull, CI 87.8 alike to above
http://i.imgur.com/dOssf.png

European skull from Lower Austria, CI 69.3 FI 97.78
http://i.imgur.com/bUqi0.jpg

Agrippa
05-23-2011, 07:04 PM
Lapps in last row. Compare their morphological differences and CIs of 87.5 to the first two rows.

http://i.imgur.com/Sv4oh.jpg

Lapp skull, CI 87.8 alike to above
http://i.imgur.com/dOssf.png

European skull from Lower Austria, CI 69.3 FI 97.78
http://i.imgur.com/bUqi0.jpg

Can you say something about the sources and further comments, especially of the 1st and 3rd images?

Great examples indeed - the latter for a prototypical Atlanto-Nordid skull.

Franz
05-23-2011, 07:30 PM
The Races of Europe by Ripley
Rassenkunde Europas by Günther

Pallantides
05-31-2011, 11:40 PM
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7740/52648142248d7283d055z.jpg
http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/7775/35686420187b061ed7eab.jpg
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/7626/samifromfatomakkesweden.jpg
http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/7434/3546149829f7395b1eb1z.jpg
http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/2137/268439522388baa65d54z.jpg
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2212/526413466140dd47f0cdb.jpg
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/7954/johnandreassavio.jpg
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/669/redsjsamiskpia.jpg
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/2475/2464583017ae3bd464f1.jpg
http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/8762/elin2.jpg
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1034/hegge.jpg
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/97/293792926737b40c477e.jpg
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/9333/irenesami.jpg
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6319/aage.jpg
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/125/keg4.jpg

Agrippa
06-01-2011, 04:57 PM
Most of these could pass as Central Europeans without a problem, this one is pred. Nordoid again:
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1034/hegge.jpg

Harkonnen
06-02-2011, 09:19 AM
I was reading this Swedish girl's blog and wondered about her looks because she has the craziest cheekbones I've ever seen, and it turns out she's Sami

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5257/5478453715_08bfdce947_o.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5098/5479052944_0815ce08c7_o.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5133/5456711885_6e945bbcc9_o.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5249/5380963873_ea5265a537.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5121/5361946946_6da72aa70c.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4002/4429344152_b56ecbf2a7.jpg

Very unique facial structure IMO.

Now it's proven! Samis can not be mongols. I've never seen Azn'z with such grazy ass cheekbones! :thumbs up

Harkonnen
06-02-2011, 09:44 AM
She kinda reminds me of this paleolithic European man.

Pallantides
07-09-2011, 01:09 AM
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3311/2009030b.jpg
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/1103/4544625829556.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3346/1215703825000img0054201.jpg
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6488/1215703920000img0056201.jpg
http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/2237/ilejvo.jpg
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/6006/altau.jpg
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/2261/andersspein.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3936/beritkristineguvsm.jpg
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/6861/britajulianneskum.jpg
http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/1064/carinakeskitalo.jpg
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/5578/egilutsi.jpg
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/2051/eliasy.jpg
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5390/hallgeirstrifeldt.jpg
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/8205/johnharaldskum.jpg
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/2390/nannathomassen.jpg

Ibericus
07-09-2011, 01:14 AM
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3311/2009030b.jpg
How much Saami blood do they still have ?

Pallantides
07-09-2011, 01:18 AM
How much Saami blood do they still have ?
You can't really tell how much Saami blood someone have based on their appearance... also there are there are plenty of saami who have redhair.

Logan
07-09-2011, 01:32 AM
:D
How much Saami blood do they still have ?

Hess
07-09-2011, 01:39 AM
The only thing I see in some of them that stands out are their interesting cheekbones, though not every Sami seems to have them.

Pallantides
07-09-2011, 01:42 AM
The only thing I see in some of them that stands out are their interesting cheekbones, though not every Sami seems to have them.

Well such cheekbones can also be found in Norwegians, in my family pronounced cheekbones are quite common.

Pallantides
07-10-2011, 01:23 AM
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/598/1732ellenkathrinehtta.jpg
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/6198/ikeniillasselfors.jpg
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/5509/andersisakoskal.jpg
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/3922/beritelleneira.jpg
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/759/beritmargretheoskal.jpg
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/2540/ellemaaretlabba.jpg
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/2530/ingerkarolinegaup.jpg
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/5302/klemetsomby.jpg
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/1381/larsjohaneira.jpg
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/227/olemattisoskal.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/5716/perivarsomby.jpg
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/2231/runesomby.jpg
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7176/samiskbarnehage.jpg
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/3640/samiskgutt.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1293/saraellenanneeira.jpg

Pallantides
08-08-2011, 12:20 AM
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/1886/photosjipi206enlaponiec.jpg
http://fotball.adressa.no/multimedia/archive/00081/Tom_H_gli_81004a.jpg
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/8954/386534698679e1061aa4.jpg
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/4783/575854366274.jpg
http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/4389/sa44.jpg
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/6376/maritbaermwalkeapaa.jpg
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7430/spiikkuoljok2000.jpg
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/262/torkelreindeerherders20.jpg
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/2289/elenorwalkeap.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5767/peraira2000.jpg
http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/610/torkelfahlgren2000.jpg
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/112/20060122nils.jpg
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/4874/220970dsc2037.jpg
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/1730/solveiglabba.jpg
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/1777/6468z.jpg

Mercury
08-08-2011, 12:30 AM
They look cool. It's nice how they have preserved their own, unique culture.

blaidd
08-08-2011, 01:14 AM
http://i54.tinypic.com/263aihy.jpg

Absinthe
08-08-2011, 05:31 AM
They look cool. It's nice how they have preserved their own, unique culture.
Ditto :thumbs

Cymel
08-09-2011, 01:34 AM
Is it true that samis are short? Or is it just a stereotype?
People in these photos look tall.
When I think to samis I have always imaginened short people with round heads and blond hair.
Instead these are what I ever thought typical Scandinavians.

Agrippa
08-10-2011, 11:15 AM
Is it true that samis are short? Or is it just a stereotype?
People in these photos look tall.
When I think to samis I have always imaginened short people with round heads and blond hair.
Instead these are what I ever thought typical Scandinavians.

As a rule Sami are short, among the shortest in all of Europe and typologically Lappids are also among the shortest of the Europid race as a whole.

billErobreren
08-13-2011, 03:50 AM
this again? sorry. had to delete this got repetitive maybe I should get a better router

billErobreren
08-13-2011, 04:32 AM
Jesus Fucking Christ! Give it a Rest, I'd hate to break it to you but most of the Saami nowadays look wholly "European" many even very typically "Nordic". This biased, false belief was due to linguists a shitload of years ago believing that Finno-Ugric languages had an eastern origin. It was also due to the Finns’ and Sámis’ tendency to have a phenotypic resemblance to the Mongoloids. In actuality, these Mongoloid-like traits do not occur at a higher average rate than they would in other Northern European groups. It took me like 15 min searching of Internet to find out that the Asiatic theory of Saami origin is disputed, some even consider it outdated also a lazy theory by only looking at these folks from the surface. Though the Sámi do have some Asian genetic influence, at its highest rate it is only 20-30%, which is no higher than the European average. so please leave em' the hell alone

Pallantides
08-13-2011, 04:39 AM
Though the Sámi do have some Asian genetic influence, at its highest rate it is only 20-30%, which is no higher than the European average. so please leave em' the hell alone


That's very high... were did you read this?:confused:
North Eurasian/Siberian/Asian admixture in the Saami range from 4 to 8%, East Norwegians in comparison have around 1 to 2% North Eurasian admixture, the highest Asian score I have seen for a Saami was 11%.

billErobreren
08-13-2011, 05:11 AM
That's very high... were did you read this?:confused:
North Eurasian/Siberian/Asian admixture in the Saami range from 4 to 8%, East Norwegians in comparison have around 1 to 2% North Eurasian admixture, the highest Asian score I have seen for a Saami was 11%.

Yeah, I thought so too, Damn!!!:confused: 20-30% even I wasn't sure of it I was expecting 16% at most. I have Saami ancestry through my Norwegian great grandmother if this were true seeing how asian traits are so hard to get rid off I'd look like some of those Kate Gosselin's(or whatever the hell her name is) kids yet I don't if there's such a thing as a quintessential Saami look I seem to lack it

I read some of that in this site
http://www.utexas.edu/courses/sami/dieda/hist/genetic.htm

& while I agree with most of it that percentage bit was a little off for me, luckily I had this bookmarked 2 years ago:D I figured fuck it they oughta know more than me I just want to know about em' it's not my place to speculate

Motörhead Remember Me
08-16-2011, 05:20 AM
As a rule Sami are short, among the shortest in all of Europe and typologically Lappids are also among the shortest of the Europid race as a whole.

Samis are taller than south Europeans and their average height is European median.

Historically:
The average height in Napoleon's army was about five feet (152 cm).

Sami height (average) in 1936 - men by area
Utsjoki 162.2cm
Inari 161.1cm
Kolten 157.7cm
http://finnanthro.blogspot.com/2007/02/sami-of-finnish-lapland.html

Average height in Italy during that time was approximately 165 cm.

Average height of Swedes 1931-35:

173,2cm (compare this with today which is 180cm)

http://gupea.ub.gu.se/dspace/bitstream/2077/854/1/Historisk%20statistik%20Del%201.pdf

Finns have grown from 167 cm to 179 cm during the last 150 years.

All logic says that all peoples have grown taller, also Sami peoples. There is no reliable measures of today's Sami average height but I bet they have grown at least 8-10 cm's from 1936.

Pallantides
09-11-2011, 09:58 PM
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/1939/samerna20solen20och20vi.jpg

5XwpsgkM8m8
f2mU3kV8vrs
Qq3WEB_DTO8
aYevBLUtuLc

Such a beautiful culture.

Moonbird
09-11-2011, 10:06 PM
This biased, false belief was due to linguists a shitload of years ago believing that Finno-Ugric languages had an eastern origin.

As far as I know the Finno-Ugric languages do have an Eastern origin.

billErobreren
09-11-2011, 11:03 PM
As far as I know the Finno-Ugric languages do have an Eastern origin.

Are you a linguist?;) because "as far as I know" is not really reassuring. they might however people only base this on theory or similarities to other languages besides I was referring to then Finns, Sami & Estonians as a people & those lame ass "they're just a bunch of depigmentated mongoloids" theories

Pallantides
09-12-2011, 12:54 PM
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1589/mariepersson.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9271/perolof.jpg
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/1851/rolffa.jpg
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/7402/sabinajonsson.jpg
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5820/elinkven.jpg
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/8596/6feb008.jpg
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/2268/110815marjaskum2.jpg
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4812/20110821samesminsida.jpg
http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/954/samiskteaterstykke.jpg
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/9894/anna009.jpg
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/5803/perniilastlka.jpg
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2519/elisabethnutti.jpg
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5913/aslaugoghelle300x214.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1746/svante.jpg
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7166/annhelnlaestaius.jpg

Moonbird
09-12-2011, 01:19 PM
Are you a linguist?;) because "as far as I know" is not really reassuring. they might however people only base this on theory or similarities to other languages besides I was referring to then Finns, Sami & Estonians as a people & those lame ass "they're just a bunch of depigmentated mongoloids" theories

What I know is that Finnish is related to many languages spoken in Middle Russia and West Siberia. And all of these people are more or less Mongoloid looking. As are some Finns and Saamis. The Estonians and Hungarians however - the only ones in Europe speaking languages related to Finnish - don't look any more Mongoloid than any other Europeans do.

Pallantides
09-12-2011, 01:38 PM
don't look any more Mongoloid than any other Europeans do.

Neither do Finns or Sámi.

Pallantides
09-12-2011, 03:48 PM
http://i.imgur.com/8eX3N.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sleHd.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Hd0TT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5DoCF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/R8aIm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WHZTM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cmGVU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yZRkp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HC8wD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/IibGw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8m4LF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ab8Pi.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZPXeV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iz7T2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/coxRJ.jpg

Pallantides
09-12-2011, 04:18 PM
http://i.imgur.com/PSqAT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9YDdC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/R6irF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rtHRx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0Sszj.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/H5cDf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BXhqP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GYmj5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ox1QN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cSjtP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uhLdL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jTZ8v.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sUARV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/X1V8g.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vg3wY.jpg

Moonbird
09-12-2011, 06:43 PM
Neither do Finns or Sámi.

I know Karl has several times mentioned that Finns have a more "Eastern" look than Estonians although according to him the reason to this is borealization of the Finns.

Talvi
09-12-2011, 08:41 PM
http://i.imgur.com/X1V8g.jpg



Wow. This woman looks unreal!

Kind of reminds me of a friend I have who is South Estonian.

Lithium
09-12-2011, 08:45 PM
Some of them look little bit Mongoloid. I find their appearance and culture quite interesting, though.

Moonbird
09-12-2011, 09:11 PM
What makes them different to other Europeans are their cheek bones, which are very prominent and distinct.

Pallantides
09-12-2011, 09:19 PM
What makes them different to other Europeans are their cheek bones, which are very prominent and distinct.


Plenty of Scandinavians have prominent cheekbones not just the Sámi, for example it's not that uncommon in Norwegians to also have prominent cheekbones:
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/taddeiv1.jpg
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/3198/rygnestad1.jpg

billErobreren
09-12-2011, 09:29 PM
funny i imagine looking like that by the time I'm 60 or so

Raskolnikov
09-13-2011, 05:16 AM
Plenty of Scandinavians have prominent cheekbones not just the Sámi, for example it's not that uncommon in Norwegians to also have prominent cheekbones:
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/taddeiv1.jpg
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/3198/rygnestad1.jpg
They have receding cheekbones. Both are quite Nordid actually.

Compare the cheekbones with this Nordid-mixed Lap:
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/748/troe016.jpg

An ultimate eastern-Mongoloid origin for the Lapps is obvious from every perspective combined - anthropology, linguistics, genetics.

http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/5120/755pxfennougrianpeople.png



Population genetics



The proposal of a Finno-Ugric language family has led to the postulation not just of an ancient Proto–Finno-Ugric people, but that the modern Finno-Ugric–speaking peoples are ethnically related.[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finno-Ugric_peoples#cite_note-13) Such hypotheses are based on the assumption that heredity can be traced though linguistic relatedness.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finno-Ugric_peoples#cite_note-14) However, Finno-Ugric has not been reconstructed linguistically; attempts to do so have been indistinguishable from Proto-Uralic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Uralic).[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finno-Ugric_peoples#cite_note-SalmTax-15) Like in any other human population, individual groups within the Finno-Ugric language family have a diverse array of cultural, environmental, and genetic influences. However, modern genetic studies have shown that the Y-chromosome haplogroup N3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_N_%28Y-DNA%29), and sometimes N2, having branched from haplogroup N (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_N_%28Y-DNA%29), which, itself, probably spread north, then west and east from Northern China about 12,000–14,000 years ago from father haplogroup NO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_NO_%28Y-DNA%29) (haplogroup O being the most common Y-chromosome haplogroup in Southeast Asia), is almost a specific trait, though certainly not restricted, to Uralic- or Finno-Ugric-speaking populations, especially as high frequency or primary paternal haplogroup.[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finno-Ugric_peoples#cite_note-16)[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finno-Ugric_peoples#cite_note-17)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finno-Ugric_peoples#Population_genetics

Pallantides
09-13-2011, 08:21 AM
My great grandmother who was Norwegian( with no Sámi ancestry) had quite prominent cheekbones:
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/Ancestors/ingeborg.jpg

I could post more pictures, but this thread is not about Norwegians but the Sámi people, suffice to say there are plenty of Norwegians who also have prominent cheekbones.:)



Raskolnikov* Autosomal DNA studies have shown that Sámi people are predominantly European and their Asian(in their case Northeast Asian) admixture ranges from 4% to 8%, the Sámi are believed to have both a western and eastern origin, N1c makes up only some 38% of Y-DNA in Norwegian-Sámi(about the same frequency as Y-DNA haplogroup I1)

Agrippa
09-13-2011, 10:31 AM
Samis are taller than south Europeans and their average height is European median.

Historically:
The average height in Napoleon's army was about five feet (152 cm).

Sami height (average) in 1936 - men by area
Utsjoki 162.2cm
Inari 161.1cm
Kolten 157.7cm
http://finnanthro.blogspot.com/2007/02/sami-of-finnish-lapland.html

Average height in Italy during that time was approximately 165 cm.

Average height of Swedes 1931-35:

173,2cm (compare this with today which is 180cm)

http://gupea.ub.gu.se/dspace/bitstream/2077/854/1/Historisk%20statistik%20Del%201.pdf

Finns have grown from 167 cm to 179 cm during the last 150 years.

All logic says that all peoples have grown taller, also Sami peoples. There is no reliable measures of today's Sami average height but I bet they have grown at least 8-10 cm's from 1936.

Yet especially in the modern context, they are significantly shorter than most Europeans and of course, their proportions are different too, namely that they are on average shorter legged.

Basically there is a range of tall racial types in Europe and of short ones.

Tall: Dinarid, Nordid, Dalofaelid, Atlantomediterranid, Borreby etc.
Medium-short: Gracilmediterranid, Osteuropid/Baltid-Eastbaltid, Alpinid, Lappid etc.

As for the cheekbones: More important than prominent to the side is forward put, prominent forward and to the side.

Pallantides
09-13-2011, 11:01 AM
http://i.imgur.com/ZhdfG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7Y5Rm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LnW51.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/frl1W.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DHvf0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1xkJh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/02pDs.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/39i8X.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GNStb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QFVM1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5PeSV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vVeOS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3FzG0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mq3mP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KIfP4.jpg

rhiannon
09-13-2011, 01:04 PM
My great grandmother who was Norwegian( with no Sámi ancestry) had quite prominent cheekbones:
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/Ancestors/ingeborg.jpg

I could post more pictures, but this thread is not about Norwegians but the Sámi people, suffice to say there are plenty of Norwegians who also have prominent cheekbones.:)



Raskolnikov* Autosomal DNA studies have shown that Sámi people are predominantly European and their Asian(in their case Northeast Asian) admixture ranges from 4% to 8%, the Sámi are believed to have both a western and eastern origin, N1c makes up only some 38% of Y-DNA in Norwegian-Sámi(about the same frequency as Y-DNA haplogroup I1)

Pallantides, do you have Sámi ancestry? I've been meaning to ask.....

I think they are a beautiful people:)

Pallantides
09-13-2011, 01:21 PM
Pallantides, do you have Sámi ancestry? I've been meaning to ask.....

I think they are a beautiful people:)


I don't have any direct or documented Sámi ancestry, but I could have some Sámi ancestry from 200 or even 1000 years ago maybe.



When I first took 23andMe and joined the projects like Eurogenes and Dodecad I was hoping to shed some light on possible Saami ancestry, but it seem my genetic makeup is fairly standard Norwegian(as in my results don't deviate much from the other Norwegian participants)

rhiannon
09-13-2011, 01:23 PM
I don't have any direct or documented Sámi ancestry, but I could have some Sámi ancestry from 200 or even 1000 years ago maybe.

I totally understand. It's the same here as far as my family and its (likely) Scandinavian heritage from all the admixture in the British Isles and France.

gold_fenix
09-13-2011, 01:27 PM
well checkbones in mongoloid are looking forward , are more round and bigger and for example in cromagnoids are lateral, strong and smaller, as the woman in black and white, in the family of my mother have high checkbones and they tend to be despigmented

Pallantides
09-13-2011, 06:59 PM
http://i.imgur.com/KMYBm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/i96R3.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/b5cAf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2jmr1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dGADr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ridTx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3fuTe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/izEgo.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WS0ur.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sQ3yH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rlxcn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cshjV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SLuKg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3FZuo.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/P5sWp.jpg

Agrippa
09-13-2011, 07:03 PM
Many of the last variants you posted could easily be Central European to me, but those show more clearly Lappid traits:

http://i.imgur.com/3fuTe.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/sQ3yH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/izEgo.jpg

Motörhead Remember Me
09-14-2011, 04:42 AM
They have receding cheekbones. Both are quite Nordid actually.

Compare the cheekbones with this Nordid-mixed Lap:
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/748/troe016.jpg

An ultimate eastern-Mongoloid origin for the Lapps is obvious from every perspective combined - anthropology, linguistics, genetics.

http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/5120/755pxfennougrianpeople.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finno-Ugric_peoples#Population_genetics

Another idiot...

Motörhead Remember Me
09-14-2011, 04:52 AM
Yet especially in the modern context, they are significantly shorter than most Europeans and of course, their proportions are different too, namely that they are on average shorter legged
:D:D:D:D:D:D Please give modern median height for Sami peoples. Also while you're at it, please give modern leg length for Samis
Basically there is a range of tall racial types in Europe and of short ones.
Basically there is a truth and then there is a truth.

Tall: Dinarid, Nordid, Dalofaelid, Atlantomediterranid, Borreby etc.
Medium-short: Gracilmediterranid, Osteuropid/Baltid-Eastbaltid, Alpinid, Lappid etc.Poor old Agrippa still going wrong. Do yourself a favor and get of the old anthrobullshit. Check out where in Europe average height is taller and where it's shorter. You will quickly realize that in countries/areas where Osteuropid/Baltid-Eastbaltid, Lappid are "common" (Scandinavia, Baltics, Northeastern Europe) the people are definetly taller than where Dalofaelid and Atlantomediterranid is more common (France, Portugal, e.t.c.). Anthropology from 1930's Germany is as much science as saying, the earth is flat.

Motörhead Remember Me
09-14-2011, 04:53 AM
Sad to see rural redneck girl Bonita/Grynda thank posts that she deep inside knows is pure bullshit.

Skäms dumma jänta.

Motörhead Remember Me
09-14-2011, 05:02 AM
As far as I know the Finno-Ugric languages do have an Eastern origin.

As far as I know the vast majority of European languages have an origin outside Europe, most of them in the East.

Get real.

If a language spread from somewhere thousands of years ago, what does it have to do with genes or modern people? Close to zero.

The only people that I know of in Europe who still retain a strong Paleo European linguistical substrata are the Samis. How the hell can they do that if their origin were in the East as some knuckleheads here insist? How can they have a strong European linguistical and genetical ancestry and yet still mainly come from the East? Do you also get 3 when you add 1 to 1?

Motörhead Remember Me
09-14-2011, 05:13 AM
What I know is that Finnish is related to many languages spoken in Middle Russia and West Siberia. Swedish is related to languages spoken in Middle Russia and Pakistan. Conclusion?

And all of these people are more or less Mongoloid looking. Some are yes, but most of them have recent eastern influence (and you know this damn well after all the time spent on anthroforums. Unfortunately, spreading dubious theories about your own ancestry does not help your inbred community of farmers with a, for outsiders unintelligible language, to gain any status whatsoever)

As are some Finns and Saamis. As well as Germans, Italians and Swedes. "Mongoloid" looking people are all over Europe in all nations and are part of natural variation.

The Estonians and Hungarians however - the only ones in Europe speaking languages related to Finnish - don't look any more Mongoloid than any other Europeans do.Hungarians are definetly less "Western" looking than the vast majority of Finns, Scandinavians and Samis. Where do you get the energy from to continue to be stupid?

Motörhead Remember Me
09-14-2011, 05:17 AM
Many of the last variants you posted could easily be Central European to me, but those show more clearly Lappid traits:

http://i.imgur.com/3fuTe.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/sQ3yH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/izEgo.jpg

All of these "Lappids" would easily pass as 100% German. Right, Agrippa?

Edit: North German to be precise. South Germans tend to be a bit woggish.

Agrippa
09-14-2011, 07:41 AM
All of these "Lappids" would easily pass as 100% German. Right, Agrippa?

Pass? Difficult question, but they would stick out, that's for sure.


Poor old Agrippa still going wrong. Do yourself a favor and get of the old anthrobullshit. Check out where in Europe average height is taller and where it's shorter. You will quickly realize that in countries/areas where Osteuropid/Baltid-Eastbaltid, Lappid are "common" (Scandinavia, Baltics, Northeastern Europe) the people are definetly taller than where Dalofaelid and Atlantomediterranid is more common (France, Portugal, e.t.c.). Anthropology from 1930's Germany is as much science as saying, the earth is flat.

Actually I'm not going after that alone, but compare people I see too - in my country and abroad. Usually, the mentioned types are taller.

The variants I mentioned under shorter being rarely taller than 178 cm, the ones I mentioned as taller, being almost always bigger than that...

Motörhead Remember Me
09-14-2011, 09:15 AM
Pass? Difficult question, but they would stick out, that's for sure.Stick out? I guess their pure Nordic looks are increasingly uncommon in Germany.


Actually I'm not going after that alone, but compare people I see too - in my country and abroad. Usually, the mentioned types are taller.

The variants I mentioned under shorter being rarely taller than 178 cm, the ones I mentioned as taller, being almost always bigger than that... Your answer lead me to conclude that you go from being an anthrojoke to a falsifier...:coffee:

Pallantides
09-14-2011, 09:55 AM
They can pass as Icelandic and Danish(espically the first one) also...

Ratatoskr
10-04-2011, 07:22 PM
I have to agree with Agrippa. The Lapps on many of the pictures are very short, also the Lappid descendands. Dinardis on the other hand are very tall. In the past an nowadays. Typical ones are Sasha Vujacic or Blanka Vlasic.

Nobody does research on this anymore, because it is not in fashion anymore to study the differences (the fashion is to say all humans belong to one race and even apes are almost humans). But that doesn't mean research in 1930 was wrong. Of course, if scientists were to continue it nowadays, it would be more advanced.

Moonbird
10-15-2011, 07:06 PM
Swedish is related to languages spoken in Middle Russia and Pakistan. Conclusion?


These people in Russia and Pakistan are as far as I know not Mongoloids.

Sylvanus
10-16-2011, 10:11 AM
The saamis very similar to hungarians with lappoid or mongolid ancestors. Chek their eyes, noses and cheeks. The dyed redhaired (original light brown like the other) girl has lappoid eyeslit, broad cheeck, typically nose with lappoid/east-baltid influence and lappoid long jaw. The light brunette girl has incontrovertible mongolid eyes and nose with mongolid influence.

Compare with these:

http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/gloss-lappoid.jpg
http://www.deytheur.co.uk/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/two-mongolian-girls-credit-shawna_peckham-snow-leopard-trust.jpg
http://www.reuters.com/resources/r/?m=02&d=20090506&t=2&i=9992805&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=700&pl=300&r=2009-05-06T100843Z_01_BTRE5450S6O00_RTROPTP_0_FILM-KOREA-VAMPIRE

These features are not common, but sensible here.

Ratatoskr
10-17-2011, 05:49 PM
Here are my morphs of the typical Lappids based on some of the pictures posted in this thread and other sources.

The core Lappid phenotype is shared by most of the Sami people. In modern Sami people it is often altered by Nordid, Cromagnid or Baltid elements. But that doesn't deny the existence of the core Lappid phenotype.

Looking at old pictures 100 years ago the phenotype was still more frequent in its purity. Its between Europid and Mongolid, related to the East Baltid, West Sibirid and Uralid types.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=16487&stc=1&d=1318873514

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=16486&stc=1&d=1318873514

Moonbird
10-17-2011, 08:02 PM
Here are my morphs of the typical Lappids based on some of the pictures posted in this thread and other sources.

The core Lappid phenotype is shared by most of the Sami people. In modern Sami people it is often altered by Nordid, Cromagnid or Baltid elements. But that doesn't deny the existence of the core Lappid phenotype.

Looking at old pictures 100 years ago the phenotype was still more frequent in its purity. Its between Europid and Mongolid, related to the East Baltid, West Sibirid and Uralid types.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=16487&stc=1&d=1318873514

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=16486&stc=1&d=1318873514

The Lappid phenotype is very visible especially in the male.

Pallantides
10-20-2011, 01:51 PM
I noticed that male morph is dominated by Saami politican Ole Henrik Magga and the female Ellinor Marita Jĺma
http://gfx.nrk.no/PZ856v7wL6jtQ2BMx3S3DQjFSU4usOA7_N8hF5XpFhcg.jpg
http://gfx.nrk.no/vq287x1iW06XMOYesF7QrQtqV3buicF-eTyQwov_nHew.jpg


If you just pick the most "Lappid" types you don't really get a fair representation of what the majority and variation of what the Saami people actually look like.:rolleyes2:

Pallantides
10-22-2011, 02:23 PM
From the Scandinavian genetic project:
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/1886/skand3.gif
*SA are Sami

European blood
10-22-2011, 06:11 PM
Some older anthropologists looked carefully at both unmixed (ethnolinguistic ancestry) Saami and mixed ones, the mixed ones looked VERY OFTEN more Alpinoid and close to many Alpinid-Nordid mixtures, rather Central European even from my point of view.

If you look at many modern series, it is obvious you deal VERY OFTEN with such mixed Lappid-Nordoid people and no "real Lappids", might they call themselves Saami or not.

Genetically many might be half-half, phenotypically they are often already in the more European spectrum, but it is obvious that this is often the result of admixture with Germanics and possibly other people, including Finns.

Here are some mixed Lapps, they look like many of the modern examples shown, note the woman above, she looks rather Alpinoid:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6833&stc=1&d=1295536620

This are unmixed Lappids of the core type with the Mongoliform tendencies:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6834&stc=1&d=1295536719

Probably the Lapps as a people were mixed for quite some time, probably never purely of the type ascribed to them at all, but fact is, that this rather Mongoloid inspired variants are now even rare in some Saami communities must be also attributed to mixture with Europeans.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/22/Sami_women.jpg

http://www.baarstua.no/Pictures/Alle%20foto%20Vidar%20Hoel/Boazo%20Sami%20Siida%20-%20familie%20copy.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Sea_sami_man.jpg

http://vivianfaithprescott.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/LAPP_MOTHER_AND_BABY_-_Kopi.6293308_std.jpg

http://www.baiki.org/images/postcard_mother.jpg

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7408/fd0817.jpg

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/666/lapphair.jpg

http://www.kaptillkap.se/bilder/Same%20i%20Norge.jpg

http://www.aber.ac.uk/en/media/samipeople.jpg

I don´t know man, but most of the old pictures that I find about sami people they display quite exotic features, and some show a clear mongolic touch. However most of the mndoern sami pictures that I see around they look like your average norwegian or Finn. Maybe during the last 100 years hey ahve been laegrly assimilated, or maybe the old pictures were cherry-picked by Agenda-guided anthropologists... or I don´t know.

You don't see many of those unmixed saamis anymore because they were genocided by the Scandinavians during the XIXth and the beginning of the XXth century.

The Saamis that you see today are a mongrelized race product of the eugenics policy of the Scandinavian countries which included among other things forced sterilizations.

Pallantides
10-23-2011, 11:25 PM
There have never been any forced sterilizations or genocide against the Sami in neither Norway or Sweden, where do you get this crap from?

Neither Norwegians or Swedes have ever commited mass murder against the Saami people, during the Norwegianization process of the late 19th century to the mid 20th century, their children were sent to boarding schools and they were forced to learn Norwegian and abandon their Sami culture, even though it was wrong it can hardly be called a genocide.

European blood
10-24-2011, 12:17 AM
There have never been any forced sterilizations or genocide against the Sami in neither Norway or Sweden, where do you get this crap from?

It is all over the internet.

http://randomthoughtsonnorway.blogspot.com/2008/03/separatism-in-norway-pt-2.html

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Sami_people

http://www.globalpolitician.com/25157-sami-kven-norway



Neither Norwegians or Swedes have ever commited mass murder against the Saami people, during the Norwegianization process of the late 19th century to the mid 20th century, their children were sent to boarding schools and they were forced to learn Norwegian and abandon their Sami culture, even though it was wrong it can hardly be called a genocide.

Genocide doesn't happen just in the form of mass murder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide


Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be the disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups.


...any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

— Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article II


1994/45. Draft United Nations declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples Article 7 states:

Indigenous peoples have the collective and individual right not to be subjected to ethnocide and cultural genocide, including prevention of and redress for:

(a) Any action which has the aim or effect of depriving them of their integrity as distinct peoples, or of their cultural values or ethnic identities;

(b) Any action which has the aim or effect of dispossessing them of their lands, territories or resources;

(c) Any form of population transfer which has the aim or effect of violating or undermining any of their rights;

(d) Any form of assimilation or integration by other cultures or ways of life imposed on them by legislative, administrative or other measures;

(e) Any form of propaganda directed against them.

http://www.unhchr.ch/huridocda/huridoca.nsf/(symbol)/e.cn.4.sub.2.res.1994.45.en?opendocument

Pallantides
10-24-2011, 12:55 PM
Just because "It is all over the internet" don't make it true though.



They did try to make "Norwegians" out of the Saami, but there was no sterelizations of Saami or any mass murder. The government wanted to wipe out the Saami culture during the Norweginization process of the early 20th century and today there are many who identify as Norwegians in North Norway who are actually of Saami descent. Saamification of Norwegians on the other hand have never occured at least not in modern times. I don't see how this makes the Saami who managed to hold on to their culture mixed though, actually it makes more sense that it's the Norse who are mixed for trying to absorb Saami people into their fold, many central and north Norwegians have some Saami ancestry, also some 1000 years ago there also lived Saami in the South Norway in areas like Lesja and Valders in Oppland there have been found remanents of Saami settlements, also Řsterdalen in Hedmark had a Saami population in the Iron Age, these people didn't just vanish so most likely they were absorbed into the Norse cultures and gradually lost their identity... or the Norse slaughtered all the men and made wives of the women.:D

Ratatoskr
10-24-2011, 07:34 PM
I noticed that male morph is dominated by Saami politican Ole Henrik Magga and the female Ellinor Marita Jĺma

If you just pick the most "Lappid" types you don't really get a fair representation of what the majority and variation of what the Saami people actually look like.:rolleyes2:

Ole Henrik Magga is indeed in the male morph (among several others), but Ellinor Marita Jĺma is not in the female one! She is just Lappid as well which makes her resemble the morph. But shes a good examples as well, you are right. I could include her.

My aim was not to get the average Sami of today, but to isolate the core Lappid type from modern examples.

Nowadays the Sami are a mixed people, but in historic times they were more pure.

Maybe the average Norwegian in 2100 will look like an Arab or Latino as a result of globalization. But that does not change the fact the Troender type or Nordid type should look like a Latino suddenly. A typical Norwegian will still be only a pred. Troender or a related Nordid/Faelid type.

The same with the Sami. Originally they were Lappid. If pred. Troender or Faelid types call themselves Sami nowadays, because one great grandfather was one (a Lappid one) and because its in fashion - fine. But a real Sami with respect to genetics is still only a pred. Lappid one.

European blood
10-24-2011, 08:39 PM
Ole Henrik Magga is indeed in the male morph (among several others), but Ellinor Marita Jĺma is not in the female one! She is just Lappid as well which makes her resemble the morph. But shes a good examples as well, you are right. I could include her.

My aim was not to get the average Sami of today, but to isolate the core Lappid type from modern examples.

Nowadays the Sami are a mixed people, but in historic times they were more pure.

Maybe the average Norwegian in 2100 will look like an Arab or Latino as a result of globalization. But that does not change the fact the Troender type or Nordid type should look like a Latino suddenly. A typical Norwegian will still be only a pred. Troender or a related Nordid/Faelid type.

The same with the Sami. Originally they were Lappid. If pred. Troender or Faelid types call themselves Sami nowadays, because one great grandfather was one (a Lappid one) and because its in fashion - fine. But a real Sami with respect to genetics is still only a pred. Lappid one.

Check out this blog.

http://saamiblog.blogspot.com/

Ratatoskr
10-24-2011, 11:38 PM
Here are some old pictures of the original core type. I morphed the females.

They were already mixed around 1900. Not to the extent they are now.

The same you actually observe with people who claim to be native Americans Most of them are not pure. They do not represent the original phenotype. You also observe it with Australian aboriginals. Example: Cathy Freeman. She's not pure at all.

The original Sami type was pred. Lappid. Nowadays most just have some Lappid admixture...

Over the decades and centuries it has been forgotten how the original types looked like. Hope the same won't happen to Nothern Europeans one day.


http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=16678&stc=1&d=1319499084

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=16679&stc=1&d=1319499084

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=16680&stc=1&d=1319499084

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=16681&stc=1&d=1319499084

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=16683&stc=1&d=1319499290

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=16684&stc=1&d=1319499290

Pallantides
10-26-2011, 10:29 AM
Nowadays the Sami are a mixed people, but in historic times they were more pure.

I'll just point to this post:

Just because "It is all over the internet" don't make it true though.



They did try to make "Norwegians" out of the Saami, but there was no sterelizations of Saami or any mass murder. The government wanted to wipe out the Saami culture during the Norweginization process of the early 20th century and today there are many who identify as Norwegians in North Norway who are actually of Saami descent. Saamification of Norwegians on the other hand have never occured at least not in modern times. I don't see how this makes the Saami who managed to hold on to their culture mixed though, actually it makes more sense that it's the Norse who are mixed for trying to absorb Saami people into their fold, many central and north Norwegians have some Saami ancestry, also some 1000 years ago there also lived Saami in the South Norway in areas like Lesja and Valders in Oppland there have been found remanents of Saami settlements, also Řsterdalen in Hedmark had a Saami population in the Iron Age, these people didn't just vanish so most likely they were absorbed into the Norse cultures and gradually lost their identity... or the Norse slaughtered all the men and made wives of the women.:D


*I'd like to note that most mixing between the populations in the past was between Norse man and Saami women and more often than not the child was brought up in the fathers culture.




But a real Sami with respect to genetics is still only a pred. Lappid one.

Lol you don't know what you are talking about now...

Motörhead Remember Me
10-26-2011, 10:36 AM
These people in Russia and Pakistan are as far as I know not Mongoloids.

What is specifically the difference between Mongoloids and IE's that you'd rather be related to Pakistanis and Gypsies?

Motörhead Remember Me
10-26-2011, 10:37 AM
The saamis very similar to hungarians with lappoid or mongolid ancestors. Chek their eyes, noses and cheeks. The dyed redhaired (original light brown like the other) girl has lappoid eyeslit, broad cheeck, typically nose with lappoid/east-baltid influence and lappoid long jaw. The light brunette girl has incontrovertible mongolid eyes and nose with mongolid influence.

Compare with these:

http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/gloss-lappoid.jpg
http://www.deytheur.co.uk/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/two-mongolian-girls-credit-shawna_peckham-snow-leopard-trust.jpg
http://www.reuters.com/resources/r/?m=02&d=20090506&t=2&i=9992805&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=700&pl=300&r=2009-05-06T100843Z_01_BTRE5450S6O00_RTROPTP_0_FILM-KOREA-VAMPIRE

These features are not common, but sensible here.

I have no idea what it is that you think you see?

Motörhead Remember Me
10-26-2011, 10:48 AM
Here are my morphs of the typical Lappids based on some of the pictures posted in this thread and other sources. So you have handpicked only the Lappids into your morphs to prove all other Saamis are Lappids too? WTF, is the point?


The core Lappid phenotype is shared by most of the Sami people. In modern Sami people it is often altered by Nordid, Cromagnid or Baltid elements. But that doesn't deny the existence of the core Lappid phenotype. You're here to prove a point. It's sad, honestly.
How about if you make a true Sami morph instead?

Imagine how it would look like if I'd use Himmler and a few other handpicked to prove Germans are spooky goofs?


Looking at old pictures 100 years ago the phenotype was still more frequent in its purity. Its between Europid and Mongolid, related to the East Baltid, West Sibirid and Uralid types.Nonsene and bullshit. They were handpicked for anthropological purposes. You're just another ignorant dude.


http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=16487&stc=1&d=1318873514
To be absolutely honest, This morph could be a British, Austrian or Russian man too...

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=16486&stc=1&d=1318873514This female morph is not very different from the women on this morph by Dienekes:
http://dienekes.ifreepages.com/pictures/composites/femaleathlete/europeanfemaleathletes.jpg

Motörhead Remember Me
10-26-2011, 10:55 AM
The Lappid phenotype is very visible especially in the male.Actually he looks quite Swedish to me now that I had a second look. I have at least three to five Swedish friends with this phenotype.

Motörhead Remember Me
10-26-2011, 10:59 AM
You don't see many of those unmixed saamis anymore because they were genocided by the Scandinavians during the XIXth and the beginning of the XXth century.

The Saamis that you see today are a mongrelized race product of the eugenics policy of the Scandinavian countries which included among other things forced sterilizations.

I think you should just concentrate on things you know something about. You just give a really, really dumb impression now.

Embarrasing.

Mordid
10-26-2011, 11:04 AM
People who have no ideas what they're talking about should be fuck off.