Is haplogroup E Eurasian in origin?

[Insuperable]

Is it possible that E is present in Africa because of back migrations from Eurasia just like in the case of R1b in Central Africa? I think I read about some theory 2 years ago that could be the reason. Basically Africa was scarcely populated and because of this migrations sudden rise in population is the cause of large frequencies of E in Africa.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Yes, it's almost certain this was the case.

[Smeagol]

Yes, E is probably Eurasian in origin. There is a possibility it could have originated in East Africa, but even then, the original carriers of the haplogroup would be very different from modern East Africans.

[Kit Carson]

Can you tell me where you read it because it looks pretty interesting

[Petros Houhoulis]

Haplogroup E is African. It barely exists in Asia, or for that matter in Europe. R1b is a minority in Africa as well, proof it didn't originate there...

[Styrian Mujo]

Haplogroup E is African. It barely exists in Asia, or for that matter in Europe. R1b is a minority in Africa as well, proof it didn't originate there...
:picard2:

[Petros Houhoulis]

:picard2:

The haplogroup E: Originating in Africa, minority groups spread to Europe and Asia:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/Haplogrupo_E-ADN-Y.GIF/250px-Haplogrupo_E-ADN-Y.GIF

Haplogroup R1b, originating in Eurasia, probably the area in Asia where it is a majority, with minority populations spread to Africa:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Haplogroup_R1b_(Y-DNA).PNG

[cally]

E is African in origin but interesting theory, anything is possible :)

[Black Wolf]

Gheg highlanders are Negroids :p.

[Germaniac]

DE, E's parent clade was found in Syria, and E* has been found around the Levant and even as far as India. Also, as one goes northeast in Africa, the amount of E increases, while it's less common in the west/southwestern areas of Africa. That said, R1b is said to have originated in Central Asia, but today it is not that common there and it's the most common haplogroup in Western Europe. Plus, E's sister clade, D, is only found in easternmost Asia. So, E is Eurasian.
Oh, and here is a more correct map of E distribution in Europe.
http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E1b1b.jpg

[Siginulfo]

Haplogroup E is Eurasian for certain. The paragroup E* has been found in Lebanon, Syria, Arabia, Bulgaria and Northern Albania, apart from Ethiopia and South Africa, the super-rare E1b2 has only been found in the Levant, Europe and Canary Islands, the paragroup E1b1* has only been found in two Russians, the paragroup E1b1b* has only been found in Khorasan, north-eastern Iran, the ancient sub-clade E-M281 is found in a few Ethiopians, Saudi Arabians and Yemeni, but the Ethiopian and Saudi Arabian haplotypes are all identical, instead the Yemeni haplotypes are diverse (suggesting a Yemeni origin for E-M281). Plus, D is found only in Asia. Plus, DE* has been found in a Syrian and two Tibetans and possibly in two South Indian Koraga tribals, apart from some West Africans whose haplotypes were very similar (suggesting a recent increase of the frequency of this haplogroup in West Africa). Anthropological evidence such as the Hofmeyr skull in South Africa supports the idea of E as Eurasian back-migrator to Africa.

[Sacrificed Ram]

Probably YAP+ was accompanied with the originators of M1 and N1 mtDNA in a back migration to Africa.

But any human haplogroup is derived from african Y-MRCA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Adam) aka A(xBT) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_A_%28Y-DNA%29).
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc122/grullaran/sticker_africa_rasta_big_zps11948367.jpg

Diga não a discriminação! Cota pra todo mundo!

[Kale]

Probably YAP+ was accompanied with the originators of M1 and N1 mtDNA in a back migration to Africa.

But any human haplogroup is derived from african Y-MRCA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Adam) aka A(xBT) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_A_%28Y-DNA%29).

Don't be so sure...The most divergent modern human mtdna lineage was found in paleolithic Australia.

[Sacrificed Ram]

Don't be so sure...The most divergent modern human mtdna lineage was found in paleolithic Australia.

Yes, I'm talking specifically about Ydna, I forgot to put it in my explanation.

But is such mtDNA really human? Some denisovan possibility?

[Kale]

Yes, I'm talking specifically about Ydna, I forgot to put it in my explanation.

But is such mtDNA really human? Some denisovan possibility?

Nope. It diverged well after Denisova, well After neanderthal, but a decent chunk before L0. But I'm saying, they're only uniparental markers...hell y chromosome is much more susceptible to replacement than mtdna is.

[Sacrificed Ram]

Nope. It diverged well after Denisova, well After neanderthal, but a decent chunk before L0. But I'm saying, they're only uniparental markers...hell y chromosome is much more susceptible to replacement than mtdna is.

I thought It didn't survive till our time because was just infertile hybrid.

I'm readind such study:
http://www.pnas.org/content/98/2/537.full.pdf

There are vestige of other "hominids" in such region like Flores Man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_floresiensis), maybe they are the source of so divergent mtDNA.

I even did a thread about not human Y-DNA among us: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?137031-Not-Human-Y-DNA-among-us

[Longbowman]

It's probably from the Middle East. Yes, a higher proportion of Africans have it, but Petros doesn't understand genetic archaeology and should leave it to smarter people.

Essentially the deciding factor of where a haplogroup originated is usually not sheer numbers, because invasions will do that, but diversity within said haplogroup in addition to presence of the original haplogroup, or its oldest subclades, which in E's case is in the Middle East, and R's is in Central Asia.

Yes, R is more common in the West, but it's also incredibly un-diverse, and the subclades there are nearly exclusively younger ones.

Hence, R is central Asian.

[Dombra]

It is Eurasian indeed. The oldest branches can be found in Asia and it very unlikely they moved from Africa

[Silikone]

If E came from the Middle East, it could almost explain the Eurasian looks of East African peoples, but it doesn't hold up with the fact that even West Africans are E, albeit another clade.
Were the original carriers of E negroid?

[Longbowman]

If E came from the Middle East, it could almost explain the Eurasian looks of East African peoples, but it doesn't hold up with the fact that even West Africans are E, albeit another clade.
Were the original carriers of E negroid?

This has been explained.

Some macrofamilies travel far. R is a good example, stretching from Iceland to Cameroon to India to Central Asia to Native Americans.

One looks at clade diversity and age of subgroups to ascertain point of origin.

E's POI was either in the Middle East or, more unlikely, the Horn of Africa (east). DE, its motherclade, would have been in the ME though.

[Stefan_Dusan]

There were two migrations out of Africa, the first was F* which gave us the most famous European haplogroups->R1b,R1a,I,J,G and even H (gypsy).

Then there was a much later migration out of Africa, which we can call DE. DE split into E, maybe this happened somewhere in Middle East, but essentially it's not so important. Having E means you are a product of the second migration out of Africa.

[Longbowman]

There were two migrations out of Africa, the first was F* which gave us the most famous European haplogroups->R1b,R1a,I,J,G and even H (gypsy).

Then there was a much later migration out of Africa, which we can call DE. DE split into E, maybe this happened somewhere in Middle East, but essentially it's not so important. Having E means you are a product of the second migration out of Africa.

So are you, though. You and I have a recent common ancestor in the past few centuries. Our autosomal admixture with regards to Africans is likely to be very similar.

That said you're (probably) wrong. DE came before F. 23andme likes to say E is East African but it probably isn't, though there's been some back-migration from there.

[Stefan_Dusan]

So are you, though. You and I have a recent common ancestor in the past few centuries. Our autosomal admixture with regards to Africans is likely to be very similar.

That said you're (probably) wrong. DE came before F. 23andme likes to say E is East African but it probably isn't, though there's been some back-migration from there.

What are you talking about? Me and you have a common ancestor? Only if we go all the way to Africa. Whereas with other people with I or even R, J that's not the case. With I our common ancestor is probably somewhere in Europe (or worse in Kavkaz). With J, or R somewhere in the middle east.

Haplogroups have nothing to do with autosomal results. We could have the same, I could be more, or less. In all probability I will have much less than you due to your ancestry.

Finally, DE is the *second* migration out of Africa. F is the *first* this is not even to debate. Check haplogroup trees and ages.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Here is haplogroup tree explaining this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Yap_tree.gif

[Longbowman]

What are you talking about? Me and you have a common ancestor? Only if we go all the way to Africa. Whereas with other people with I or even R, J that's not the case. With I our common ancestor is probably somewhere in Europe (or worse in Kavkaz). With J, or R somewhere in the middle east.

Haplogroups have nothing to do with autosomal results. We could have the same, I could be more, or less. In all probability I will have much less than you due to your ancestry.

Finally, DE is the *second* migration out of Africa. F is the *first* this is not even to debate. Check haplogroup trees and ages.

We have common non-paternal-line ancestors much more recently, is what I was trying to say. Y-DNA doesn't really affect one's individual aDNA score.

I'm guessing we both have minimal African blood.

[Longbowman]

Here is haplogroup tree explaining this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Yap_tree.gif

This map is horribly outdated.

[Stefan_Dusan]

We have common non-paternal-line ancestors much more recently, is what I was trying to say. Y-DNA doesn't really affect one's individual aDNA score.

I'm guessing we both have minimal African blood.

And how do you know, I didn't know we're related :D

[Stefan_Dusan]

This map is horribly outdated.

It's good enough to show that the two splits out of Africa are F and DE. And DE emerged later out of Africa.

[LightHouse89]

I am shocked Sicily isnt more african than that.

[LightHouse89]

We have common non-paternal-line ancestors much more recently, is what I was trying to say. Y-DNA doesn't really affect one's individual aDNA score.

I'm guessing we both have minimal African blood.

But today in england, well since the end of ww1 the british government began importing many africans....and records exist that they inter married. do you think explians why many brits today have african ancestors?

[Longbowman]

But today in england, well since the end of ww1 the british government began importing many africans....and records exist that they inter married. do you think explians why many brits today have african ancestors?

Pardon me?

[Gaston]

Most, if not all E lineages in Eurasia are the product more recent Out-of-Africa migrations. However, DE is most likely Eurasian based on the distribution of D and some DE* found in Eurasia too. However, there is also the possibility that DE appeared in Africa and then D migrated to Eurasia but this scenario implies an African origin of CT* (of which DE is also part of) and maybe even CF, based on the age estimates.


I'm personally in favor of Eurasian DE and E back migration to Africa before going back to Eurasia in the late pleistocene as mostly E1b1b1. This would explain why some Africans with no sign of Eurasian ancestry at all like the Dinkas are closer to Eurasians than other Africans are autosomally.

[LightHouse89]

Pardon me?

I was just trolling you. Relax hahahaha.

[poiuytrewq0987]

More likely E-V13 originated from the Egyptians' predecessors who migrated during the Neolithic period. E-V13 spread into Asia after Alexander's conquests and the establishment of Macedonian colonies. I'm sure if the region between Iran and Pakistan was less war-torn we'd be able to test people there and find men with E-V13 haplogroup and scoring significant Balkan on tests.

[Longbowman]

More likely E-V13 originated from the Egyptians' predecessors who migrated during the Neolithic period. E-V13 spread into Asia after Alexander's conquests and the establishment of Macedonian colonies. I'm sure if the region between Iran and Pakistan was less war-torn we'd be able to test people there and find men with E-V13 haplogroup and scoring significant Balkan on tests.

Well no, this is incredibly unlikely because apart from thousands of other excellent reasons we have EV13 from ancient Neolithic European sites. EV13 almost certainly predates R in Europe.

The Greeks that colonised the ME have mostly been absorbed or have been expatriated to Greece or Cyprus. Populations do exist in the Caucasus and elsewhere though.

[Black Wolf]

It does seem likely that E has a Eurasian (Middle Eastern) origin.

[Sacrificed Ram]

I want know if some YAP+ entered together with IJ* during paleolithic into europe.

[Gaston]

I want know if some YAP+ entered together with IJ* during paleolithic into europe.

It is possible. We know an older Eurasian lineage and almost as basal as YAP+ was found in an Iberian hunter-gatherer (La Braña): C. However, IJ* is much younger than C, D and E (who are roughly the same age) and IJ* is nested close if not inside derived Eurasian lineages: IJK*; K which contains (and could be the new name of the following) L, T, Q, R, N and O (etc).

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-W9tCYUPoeDo/U4_75fH8RPI/AAAAAAAAJnk/PeGLt4vWhk4/s1600/K-M526.png

[Sacrificed Ram]

If IJ is west asian in origin and YAP+ is also west asian in origin, and even more old, what does impede they walk together? How much are old the "E3b" clades with possible european origin?

[Gaston]

If IJ is west asian in origin and YAP+ is also west asian in origin, and even more old, what does impede they walk together? How much are old the "E3b" clades with possible european origin?

What prevents IJ* and YAP+ from walking together is age, the latter being several 10k older than IJ*. When DE was in Western Asia (if the Eurasian hypothesis is valid), IJ didn't exist (was just CF*, or F*).
Later, what prevented YAP+ from traveling with IJ* is E disappearing from Eurasia (or E appearing only once in Africa after DE* reach Africa) and restricted to Northeast Africa, D already in place in older Asian hunter-gatherers (with a different "race" type, culture, tools etc).
Since K originated in Southeast Asia, IJ* probably originated in Northern Southeast Asia or South Asia and much less likely in West Asia (unless it did a big U-turn very early on as IJK*).


As for "E3b" (E-M35 or E1b1b1), it originated in Norteast Africa and began to spread in North Africa, East Africa, and Western Eurasia during the end of the paleolithic. Some E1b1b1 were probably already present in Eurasia before the holocene.

[Sacrificed Ram]

What prevents IJ* and YAP+ from walking together is age, the latter being several 10k older than IJ*. When DE was in Western Asia (if the Eurasian hypothesis is valid), IJ didn't exist (was just CF*, or F*).
Later, what prevented YAP+ from traveling with IJ* is E disappearing from Eurasia (or E appearing only once in Africa after DE* reach Africa) and restricted to Northeast Africa, D already in place in older Asian hunter-gatherers (with a different "race" type, culture, tools etc).
Since K originated in Southeast Asia, IJ* probably originated in Northern Southeast Asia or South Asia and much less likely in West Asia (unless it did a big U-turn very early on as IJK*).


As for "E3b" (E-M35 or E1b1b1), it originated in Norteast Africa and began to spread in North Africa, East Africa, and Western Eurasia during the end of the paleolithic. Some E1b1b1 were probably already present in Eurasia before the holocene.

Very conclusive answer!!!

This is my terrible habit to associate haplogroups with phenotypes, isn't possible explain the existence of cro-magnon types in Africa, Asian and Europe, simultaneously, with occurrence of some Y-DNA.

Probably this phenotype type is much more old than definition of some sort of haplogroups.

Thank you very much.

[The Sun King]

No its not. E is clearly African in origin.

[Longbowman]

No its not. E is clearly African in origin.

Do explain.

[The Sun King]

Do explain.

Just look at the distribution map of Haplogroup E its clearly African.

[Longbowman]

Just look at the distribution map of Haplogroup E its clearly African.

That's not correct, I'm afraid. Is R actually Australian in origin?

To divine the origin of a clade, you look at diversity, not diffusion. The highest diversity is in the Near East.

[The Sun King]

That's not correct, I'm afraid. Is R actually Australian in origin?

To divine the origin of a clade, you look at diversity, not diffusion. The highest diversity is in the Near East.

It depends on the subclade of E we are talking about.

[Skipetar]

E could be the purest basal Caucasoid haplogroup.

[Longbowman]

It depends on the subclade of E we are talking about.

We're talking about E*.

[The Sun King]

We're talking about E*.

I just don't see a fit with this lineage being "Eurasian". It's more Afro/Asiantic and Semitic than anything especially M-35.

[The Sun King]

See Jews with Haplogroup E, it's second to J in frequency. The Levant doesn't equal Eurasian.

[Longbowman]

See Jews with Haplogroup E, it's second to J in frequency. The Levant doesn't equal Eurasian.

J is pretty Eurasian. E is commonly thought to have arisen in Eurasia. What's the relevance of Jews?

[The Sun King]

J is pretty Eurasian. E is commonly thought to have arisen in Eurasia. What's the relevance of Jews?

No relevance really, just pointing it out. Who told you Haplogroup E arose in Eurasia. Last I checked at Eupedia, E still has it's origins in Africa. And that seems to be the common consensus around the web. Karafet 2014 paper also states this.

[Longbowman]

No relevance really, just pointing it out. Who told you Haplogroup E arose in Eurasia. Last I checked at Eupedia, E still has it's origins in Africa. And that seems to be the common consensus around the web.

Eupedia isn't an authority, though it is a nice site. How many peer reviewed papers are there on the topic?

[The Sun King]

Eupedia isn't an authority, though it is a nice site. How many peer reviewed papers are there on the topic?

There are quite a lot out there for Haplogroup E. Just takes some research. Some vary a bit, but I never read anything saying it's Eurasian. I would say Middle Eastern would be a better fit.

[Longbowman]

There are quite a lot out there for Haplogroup E. Just takes some research. Some vary a bit, but I never read anything saying it's Eurasian. I would say Middle Eastern would be a better fit.

The Middle East is what I meant - indeed, I have said it. It is Eurasian.

[The Sun King]

The Middle East is what I meant - indeed, I have said it. It is Eurasian.

Ah ok I have a different interpretation of Eurasian. Yes it is Middle Eastern, but it didn't originate there.

[Longbowman]

Ah ok I have a different interpretation of Eurasian. Yes it is Middle Eastern.

Yeah I get it. Eurasian normally means mixed-race East Asian/European to me, or Central Asian, but I was using it geographically in this case.

[Void]

Haplogroup D and E split up 60K years ago. So that implies that haplogroup D left Africa 60K years ago. Most likely using a land bridge.

Haplogroup C and F split up 50K years ago. So that implies that haplogroup C left Africa 50K years ago. Most likely using boats.

Haplogroup F split up into various branches 45K years ago. So that implies that haplogroup F left Africa 45K years ago. Most likely with far greater numbers than the C migration which implies climate change or another motivator to leave in large numbers.

Archeological evidence shows there was a race war in Egypt around 13K years ago, so this is the likely point of entry of E into North Africa.

[Longbowman]

Haplogroup D and E split up 60K years ago. So that implies that haplogroup D left Africa 60K years ago. Most likely using a land bridge.

Haplogroup C and F split up 50K years ago. So that implies that haplogroup C left Africa 50K years ago. Most likely using boats.

Haplogroup F split up into various branches 45K years ago. So that implies that haplogroup F left Africa 45K years ago. Most likely with far greater numbers than the C migration which implies climate change or another motivator to leave in large numbers.

Archeological evidence shows there was a race war in Egypt around 13K years ago, so this is the likely point of entry of E into North Africa.

From where?

[Prince Of Macrobia]

E originated from Horn Of Africa.

http://i60.tinypic.com/34gobk2.jpg

[Void]

From where?
From Sudan into Egypt following the Nile. If the climate allowed Malaria to spread into North Africa this would have given Africans a significant advantage, as African evolution has primarily focused on malaria resistance for the past 40K years.

[Longbowman]

From Sudan into Egypt following the Nile. If the climate allowed Malaria to spread into North Africa this would have given Africans a significant advantage, as African evolution has primarily focused on malaria resistance for the past 40K years.

Seems very unlikely. E1b1b1a and E1b1b1c are already have thought to have diverged by then and neither is thought to have arisen in the Horn of Africa. The idea of an ancient race war is also a bit fanciful.

[Void]

Seems very unlikely. E1b1b1a and E1b1b1c are already have thought to have diverged by then and neither is thought to have arisen in the Horn of Africa. The idea of an ancient race war is also a bit fanciful.
Archaeological evidence suggests a conflict between two groups with different skulls.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/saharan-remains-may-be-evidence-of-first-race-war-13000-years-ago-9603632.html

Keep in mind that in tribal societies two haplogroups can co-exist in the same territory for thousands of years without mixing the paternal lines. Brides were typically exchanged before sexual maturity at the age of 5-9 so accidental pregnancies would have been out of the question.

[Loki]

Is it possible that E is present in Africa because of back migrations from Eurasia just like in the case of R1b in Central Africa? I think I read about some theory 2 years ago that could be the reason. Basically Africa was scarcely populated and because of this migrations sudden rise in population is the cause of large frequencies of E in Africa.

I think there is little doubt that E is African. The R1b in Central Africa could be by some ancient European migration.

[Longbowman]

Archaeological evidence suggests a conflict between two groups with different skulls.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/saharan-remains-may-be-evidence-of-first-race-war-13000-years-ago-9603632.html

Keep in mind that in tribal societies two haplogroups can co-exist in the same territory for thousands of years without mixing the paternal lines. Brides were typically exchanged before sexual maturity at the age of 5-9 so accidental pregnancies would have been out of the question.

Pure conjecture. You have no idea what life was like in Egypt in 11,000 BC.

[Longbowman]

I think there is little doubt that E is African. The R1b in Central Africa could be by some ancient European migration.

More likely the R1b is from backmigration from the Middle East.

[Smeagol]

E is Eurasian, or Caucasoid North African.

[Silikone]

E does seem to have a strong correlation with Eurasian traits, especially e1b1b. Nilo-Saharan peoples of East Africa aren't just linguistically different from Afro-Asiatics, they have a heavy amount of A and B, with the most isolated tribes barely having any E. Despite close proximity to horners, it's still very easy to racially tell these distinct groups apart. Many Nilo-Saharans have near-black skin, a total lack androgenic hair, and uniquely smooth faces.
Even though Niger-Congo peoples are usually considered true negroids, many of them still seem to have Eurasian traits to a small degree, at least compared to the aforementioned Nilo-Saharans. Am I wrong?

[Sacrificed Ram]

E does seem to have a strong correlation with Eurasian traits, especially e1b1b. Nilo-Saharan peoples of East Africa aren't just linguistically different from Afro-Asiatics, they have a heavy amount of A and B, with the most isolated tribes barely having any E. Despite close proximity to horners, it's still very easy to racially tell these distinct groups apart. Many Nilo-Saharans have near-black skin, a total lack androgenic hair, and uniquely smooth faces.
Even though Niger-Congo peoples are usually considered true negroids, many of them still seem to have Eurasian traits to a small degree, at least compared to the aforementioned Nilo-Saharans. Am I wrong?

I think the same thing!
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f125/mirk3/fulaniwoman_zps7985972d.jpeg
But this fulani woman is an extreme exception, result of more historic events (slamization, slave trade) or even a photoshop work.

[Abdelnour]

I am actually curious about Haplogroup e1b1b and it's relationship to e1b1a. Ancient Civilizations having e1b1b included the Ethiopians/Somalis, Egyptians, Israelites, Phoenicians, Greek, and the berbers. Afro-Centrists from America claim that all those civilizations were once Black African. Maybe there is some truth to this. Could it be true that a E1b1b carrier in North Africa are more gentically related to the Bantus people than say Indo-Europeans? I understand other haplogroups(both Y and MTDNA) get in the picture along with climate adaptations, but maybe the afrocentrist were not that far off when they were claiming Egypt as their own.

[Longbowman]

I am actually curious about Haplogroup e1b1b and it's relationship to e1b1a. Ancient Civilizations having e1b1b included the Ethiopians/Somalis, Egyptians, Israelites, Phoenicians, Greek, and the berbers. Afro-Centrists from America claim that all those civilizations were once Black African. Maybe there is some truth to this. Could it be true that a E1b1b carrier in North Africa are more gentically related to the Bantus people than say Indo-Europeans? I understand other haplogroups(both Y and MTDNA) get in the picture along with climate adaptations, but maybe the afrocentrist were not that far off when they were claiming Egypt as their own.

No. Empirically no. There's almost no SNP sharing.

[Sacrificed Ram]

Possible some DE* were original inhabitant of arabian peninsula, but due some phonomenon of desertification they fled to Horn Africa. There they envolved to E. After domestication of cammels, goats, ass, and other livestock the are able to recolonize arabian peninsula. It explain the high diverity of clades in Horn Africa, but I remember some studies (I don't know if they are still valid) about occurrence of very basal diverged E* and E1* clades in arabian peninsula, maybe such migration was made even by some E* than DE*.

I'm not a specialist in paleoclimatology.

[Longbowman]

Possible some DE* were original inhabitant of arabian peninsula, but due some phonomenon of desertification they fled to Horn Africa. There they envolved to E. After domestication of cammels, goats, ass, and other livestock the are able to recolonize arabian peninsula. It explain the high diverity of clades in Horn Africa, but I remember some studies (I don't know if they are still valid) about occurrence of very basal diverged E* and E1* clades in arabian peninsula, maybe such migration was made even by some E* than DE*.

I'm not a specialist in paleoclimatology.

E probably evolved in the Middle East. If not, it's still one of the original clades there.

[Kriptc06]

Possible some DE* were original inhabitant of arabian peninsula, but due some phonomenon of desertification they fled to Horn Africa. There they envolved to E. After domestication of cammels, goats, ass, and other livestock the are able to recolonize arabian peninsula. It explain the high diverity of clades in Horn Africa, but I remember some studies (I don't know if they are still valid) about occurrence of very basal diverged E* and E1* clades in arabian peninsula, maybe such migration was made even by some E* than DE*.

I'm not a specialist in paleoclimatology.

Do you really think that?
outad zo-as?

[Sacrificed Ram]

Do you really think that?
outad zo-as?

Before civil war in Syria, was found some DE* there. Other places where DE* can be found is West Africa and Tibet, and most recently discovered a tribe in South Asia.

[Kriptc06]

Before civil war in Syria, was found some DE* there. Other places where DE* can be found is West Africa and Tibet, and most recently discovered a tribe in South Asia.

holy shite, Tibet?

[Sacrificed Ram]

D should be the dominant Y-haplogroup in East Asia until they was replaced by other YAP- haplogroups.

[Decius]

Possibly Eurasian I highly doubt it's from SSA's

[Carlito's Way]

E comes from africa
Most people who carry E and arent from africa have high levels of ssa

E is more found in black africans than anyone else

Cut the bullshit already

[Kriptc06]

Possibly Eurasian I highly doubt it's from SSA's

It doesn't matter, that shit is so old that races were not well defined. E is like 50.000 years old.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E/

[Kriptc06]

E comes from africa
Most people who carry E and arent from africa have high levels of ssa

E is more found in black africans than anyone else

Cut the bullshit already

tell me bruv, would you trade your I1 for a subclade of E if you could?

[Carlito's Way]

tell me bruv, would you trade your I1 for a subclade of E if you could?

Yes because E represents Africa and im african in soul and genotype

[Decius]

Yes because E represents Africa and im african in soul and genotype

Lol your probably mainly european

[Brutus]

Couple cases of DE* and E* have been found in the Levant, this definitely tells something. I also saw a sample of E1b1a from Iran that dates to 11,000-14,000 years before present.

[Decius]

No, E is Negroid.

[Kelmendasi]

It's seems somewhat likely that E itself may have arisen in Eurasia given the fact that DE* is mainly found there as well as D being restricted to Asia. The clade ancestral to DE which is CT also seems to have arisen in Asia and not Africa. All of this suggests that E may have originally come from western Asia and moved south into Africa where it developed into E1

http://i.imgur.com/qmSUR0H.png

[Kelmendasi]

No, E is Negroid.
Not really. Based on ancient DNA and E's ancestral clades. A western Asia origin seems more likely, though it later moved down into Africa

[Hadouken]

it's negroid

[Brutus]

I have heard that a 60,000 years old Caucasoid skull was discovered in Southern Levant (Palestine area) and was determined under E*, any one heard of this?

[Kelmendasi]

I have heard that a 60,000 years old Caucasoid skull was discovered in Southern Levant (Palestine area) and was determined under E*, any one heard of this?
I'm not quite sure about basal E* showing up, but basal E1b1* and CT* did show up in the Levant. Though part of the Natufian culture

[Cristiano viejo]

No, E is Negroid.

[Brutus]

I'm not quite sure about basal E* showing up, but basal E1b1* and CT* did show up in the Levant. Though part of the Natufian culture

Indeed, I am aware of them. If I recall correctly there were E-Z830 samples as well, and E-M78. Although the skull that I heard about dates to 60,000-65,000 years before present, almost 50,000 years older than the Natufians.

[Decius]

Not really. Based on ancient DNA and E's ancestral clades. A western Asia origin seems more likely, though it later moved down into Africa

The ancestor of E, DE also has been debated between Africa and West Asia. In the end we will never really know the orgin, It could be either. Its really impossible to uncover the orgin as the mutation is tens of thousands of years old. I just think its more probable to be African because it is far more common in Africa then Europe and West Asia.

At the end of the day it does not really matter though. Even if E was of negroid orgin this was very long ago. Subclades matter more.

[Kelmendasi]

The ancestor of E, DE orgin also has a debated between Africa and West Asia. In the end we will never really know the orgin, It could be either. Its really impossible to uncover the orgin as the mutation is tens of thousands of years old. I just think its more probable to be African because it is far more common in Africa then Europe and West Asia.
Yes it is highly debated, and a lot more evidence is needed to come to a conclusion.

[Brutus]

Chandrasekhar et al. 2007, have argued for the Asian origin of the YAP+. They state,

The presence of the YAP insertion in Northeast Indian tribes and Andaman Islanders with haplogroup D suggests that some of the M168 chromosomes gave rise to the YAP insertion and M174 mutation in South Asia

They also argue that YAP+ migrated back to Africa with other Eurasian haplogroups. These include Haplogroup R1b1* (18-23kya), which has been observed with especially high frequency among the members of some peoples in northern Cameroon, and Haplogroup T (39-45 kya), which has been observed in low frequencies in Africa. Haplogroup E at 50kya is considerably older than these haplogroups and has been observed at frequencies of 80-92% in Africa.

In a press release concerning a study by Karafet et al. (2008), Michael Hammer, revised the dates for the origin Haplogroup DE from 55,000 years ago to 65,000 years ago. For haplogroup E, Hammer revised the dates from 31,000 years ago to 50,000 years ago. Hammer is also quoted as saying “The age of haplogroup DE is about 65,000 years, just a bit younger than the other major lineage to leave Africa, which is assumed to be about 70,000 years old,” in which he implies that haplogroup DE left Africa along with Haplogroup CF.