EEF-WHG-ANE test for Europeans Accuracy For West Eurasians

[Black Wolf]

I know that this test that Polako made back in December is supposed to be fairly accurate for Europeans but is it also accurate for West Asians and Near Eastern peoples in showing that they are pretty much of 100% EEF or Neolithic type ancestry with 0% of the WHG component?

http://bga101.blogspot.ca/2013/12/eef-whg-ane-test-for-europeans.html

[Smeagol]

Aren't Sardinians supposed to be closest to original Neolithic Farmers?

[Aldaris]

Aren't Sardinians supposed to be closest to original Neolithic Farmers?

Yeah, actually all the islanders from Med sea cluster fairly well with the neolithic farmers; middle easterners/west asians are separated from them genetically. They wouldn't cluster with any of those ancient "remains".

[Black Wolf]

Aren't Sardinians supposed to be closest to original Neolithic Farmers?

Yes they are.

[Insuperable]

They don't have much to do with EEFs like Sardinians. It is also quite obvious why they get almost 100% EEF even if they have little to no relation with them. It is a simple calculator and it has to do with the absence of WHG in these population and calculator must show some result.

[Black Wolf]

They don't have much to do with EEFs like Sardinians. It is also quite obvious why they get almost 100% EEF even if they have little to no relation with them. It is a simple calculator and it has to do with the absence of WHG in these population and calculator must show some result.

Okay yes that makes sense. Would you say this calculator is useful at least in some ways for West Asians and Near Easterners in showing that they have 0% of the WHG component among them?

[Insuperable]

Okay yes that makes sense. Would you say this calculator is useful at least in some ways for West Asians and Near Easterners in showing that they have 0% of the WHG component among them?

Of course. And a bit off topic in my opinion it is possible that the main West Asian component is largely made up of EEFs. I think that later arrival of Gedrosian like people to West Asian areas created a unique set of alleles typical for West Asian population which are Sardinian like with an input from Gedrosian like people and this set is registered as West Asian component.

[Black Wolf]

Of course. And a bit off topic in my opinion it is possible that the main West Asian component is largely made up of EEFs. I think that later arrival of Gedrosian like people to West Asian areas created a unique set of alleles typical for West Asian population which are Sardinian like with an input from Gedrosian like people and this set is registered as West Asian component.

Yes I think you actually may be correct.

[Black Wolf]

Of course. And a bit off topic in my opinion it is possible that the main West Asian component is largely made up of EEFs. I think that later arrival of Gedrosian like people to West Asian areas created a unique set of alleles typical for West Asian population which are Sardinian like with an input from Gedrosian like people and this set is registered as West Asian component.

Now another question I have is that aren't Basques supposed to have no ANE among them? On Polako's test here French Basques tend to score around 10% ANE on average. How can this be explained?

[Anglojew]

The Greek/South Italian/Ashkenazi cluster is interesting

[Yehiel]

how do i take it?

[Graham]

The Greek/South Italian/Ashkenazi cluster is interesting

South Italians & Ashkenazi always cluster together on Eurogenes.

Anything South East of Greece should in the 90+% EEF.

[Insuperable]

Now another question I have is that aren't Basques supposed to have no ANE among them? On Polako's test here French Basques tend to score around 10% ANE on average. How can this be explained?

Basques should have ANE. Even Sardinians score ANE.

[Black Wolf]

Basques should have ANE. Even Sardinians score ANE.

I thought I read somewhere before that in the Lazaridis paper that these components come from that the Basques did not score any ANE. Maybe I am wrong of Lazaridis was wrong? Do you know?

[Insuperable]

I thought I read somewhere before that in the Lazaridis paper that these components come from that the Basques did not score any ANE. Maybe I am wrong of Lazaridis was wrong? Do you know?

It is explained nicely here.
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2014/01/another-look-at-lazaridis-et-al-ancient.html
http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/2014/04/revised-lazaridis-study-on-ancient.html

But I don't see why they shouldn't have any ANE ancestry since Basques are an even Mesolithic-Neolithic mix. But don't hold on my words since there is many things I don't know about and for the rest I am unsure.

[Black Wolf]

It is explained nicely here.
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2014/01/another-look-at-lazaridis-et-al-ancient.html
http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/2014/04/revised-lazaridis-study-on-ancient.html

But I don't see why they shouldn't have any ANE ancestry since Basques are an even Mesolithic-Neolithic mix. But don't hold on my words since there is many things I don't know about and for the rest I am unsure.

''Indeed, even though a couple of tables in the study report considerable ANE ancestry among Basques and Pais Vasco Spaniards, the authors admit that this need not be the case. For instance:

We next attempted to fit individual West Eurasian populations as a mixture of Loschbour and Stuttgart, as representatives of Early European farmers and West European Hunter Gatherers.

Fig. 1B suggests that this is not possible, as most Europeans form a cline that cannot be reconciled with such a mixture [Davidski's note: I think they actually mean Fig. 2B]. Nonetheless, for Sardinians (Extended Data Table 1), the most negative f3-statistic is of the form f3(Test; Loschbour, Stuttgart), which suggests that at least some Europeans may be consistent with having been formed by such a mixture. We thus fit each European population into the topology of Fig. S12.6. Only Basques, Pais_Vasco, and Sardinians, can be fit successfully with this model. Fig. S12.8 shows a successful fit.

Most European populations cannot be fit as this type of 2-way mixture and, intuitively, this is due to their tendency (Fig. 1B) towards Ancient North Eurasians that is not modeled by such a mixture.''




So some ''tables'' picked up ANE ancestry in the Basques but some did not? They can be fit as a 2 way mix between EEF and WHG but no ANE. So the real question is do the Basques,other Iberians and Sardinians have any real ANE ancestry or not?

[Insuperable]

''Indeed, even though a couple of tables in the study report considerable ANE ancestry among Basques and Pais Vasco Spaniards, the authors admit that this need not be the case. For instance:

We next attempted to fit individual West Eurasian populations as a mixture of Loschbour and Stuttgart, as representatives of Early European farmers and West European Hunter Gatherers.

Fig. 1B suggests that this is not possible, as most Europeans form a cline that cannot be reconciled with such a mixture [Davidski's note: I think they actually mean Fig. 2B]. Nonetheless, for Sardinians (Extended Data Table 1), the most negative f3-statistic is of the form f3(Test; Loschbour, Stuttgart), which suggests that at least some Europeans may be consistent with having been formed by such a mixture. We thus fit each European population into the topology of Fig. S12.6. Only Basques, Pais_Vasco, and Sardinians, can be fit successfully with this model. Fig. S12.8 shows a successful fit.

Most European populations cannot be fit as this type of 2-way mixture and, intuitively, this is due to their tendency (Fig. 1B) towards Ancient North Eurasians that is not modeled by such a mixture.''




So some ''tables'' picked up ANE ancestry in the Basques but some did not? They can be fit as a 2 way mix between EEF and WHG but no ANE. So the real question is do the Basques,other Iberians and Sardinians have any real ANE ancestry or not?

I may be wrong, but some Mesolithic samples were a bit closer to Mal'ta than usual so maybe they could have non-existent ANE. I am not sure though since I fell out of this and forgot some things.

[Black Wolf]

Another thing relating to this I wonder about is if the WHG like portion of the EEF component is related to Y-DNA haplogroup J or not? We know that the EEF component is supposed to have around 10% or so WHG like ancestry in it and we know that Y-DNA haplogroup I was the dominant Y-DNA haplogroup among the WHG people. We also know that Y-DNA haplogroups I and J are closely related both being descended from IJ-M429. So I wonder if the WHG like portion in the EEF components comes from Y-DNA haplogroup J folk who mixed with the Y-DNA haplogroup G folk in the ancient Near East and contributed the WHG like ancestry to the EEF component? Or it could just be from native Y-DNA haplogroup I groups that were assimilated early on into the Y-DNA expanding EEF farmers into Europe.

[Geni]

My results
-----------------------
Population

_________________________________
Mediterranean Farmer 37.88%
Baltic Hunter Gatherer 25.66%
Anatolian Farmer 24.29%
Middle Eastern Herder 10.39%

[Black Wolf]

My results
-----------------------
Population

_________________________________
Mediterranean Farmer 37.88%
Baltic Hunter Gatherer 25.66%
Anatolian Farmer 24.29%
Middle Eastern Herder 10.39%

That is a different calculator.

[Black Wolf]

I may be wrong, but some Mesolithic samples were a bit closer to Mal'ta than usual so maybe they could have non-existent ANE. I am not sure though since I fell out of this and forgot some things.

Do you think this EEF-WHG-ANE test that Polako created is accurate for Basques and Iberians then and picks up real ANE ancestry in them that Lazaridis did not in his study? Or is it false?

[Insuperable]

Do you think this EEF-WHG-ANE test that Polako created is accurate for Basques and Iberians then and picks up real ANE ancestry in them that Lazaridis did not in his study? Or is it false?

I don't know really. Imo his test is made based on one of their possible results and accompanying data regarding this just like many if not all of his tests. I think that researchers themselves can't say for sure if Basques or Sardinians have or don't have any ANE ancestry. They just claim that it is possible they don't have any. But don't hold onto my words, as usual.