Maltese are literally Sicilian transplants, nothing more.

[Sikeliot]

I am sick of all the misinformation about the Maltese on here. No, they are not North African, no they are not Arab. They are simply Sicilian transplants from the past thousand years, and for much of that time they were considered Italian themselves and spoke Italian.

They are, as any genetic test shows, identical to Sicilians.

[alfieb]

It's too bad that Dienekes didn't ask for Maltese people to submit samples so that he could have a Maltese cluster at Dodecad.

[Tooting Carmen]

Don't they have slightly less Northern European ancestry than do Sicilians?

[Sikeliot]

Don't they have slightly less Northern European ancestry than do Sicilians?

That's hard to achieve. :lol: I don't know honestly.

I'd have to see their results on Dodecad or Eurogenes, but I think that they actually have less affinity to the Caucasus if anything, and 1-2% more North African on average.

[Isleño]

I am sick of all the misinformation about the Maltese on here. No, they are not North African, no they are not Arab. They are simply Sicilian transplants from the past thousand years, and for much of that time they were considered Italian themselves and spoke Italian.

They are, as any genetic test shows, identical to Sicilians.That's exactly right. They are pretty much identical. They surely are transplants.

[Isleño]

Don't they have slightly less Northern European ancestry than do Sicilians?

Actually Maltese do have slightly less northern Euro than Sicilians and has slightly more North African. Maltese are actually closer to Ashkenazis than Sicilians now that I remember their genetic results.

[Sikeliot]

Actually Maltese do have slightly less northern Euro than Sicilians and has slightly more North African. Maltese are actually closer to Ashkenazis than Sicilians now that I remember their genetic results.

Sicilians, Maltese and Ashkenazi are all closer to one another than any of them is to anyone else. Greeks would be the next closest but they have more North Euro ancestry than the others.

[Isleño]

I am sick of all the misinformation about the Maltese on here. No, they are not North African, no they are not Arab. They are simply Sicilian transplants from the past thousand years, and for much of that time they were considered Italian themselves and spoke Italian.

They are, as any genetic test shows, identical to Sicilians.Now that I remember Maltese and Sicilian genetic results, Maltese are actually closer to Ashkenazis than Sicilians with slightly less Northern Euro than Sicilians and slightly more North African. So I think what happened is they were Sicilian transplants that picked up more North African along the way and that NA addition probably cut down some of their DNA and some of the northern got the chop :)

[Sikeliot]

Now that I remember Maltese and Sicilian genetic results, Maltese are actually closer to Ashkenazis than Sicilians with slightly less Northern Euro than Sicilians and slightly more North African. So I think what happened is they were Sicilian transplants that picked up more North African along the way and that NA addition probably cut down some of their DNA and some of the northern got the chop :)

But it also says the 3 populations are closer to one another than to anyone else (which is contrary to the notion that Greeks are exactly like Sicilians).

There are regions of Sicily that would come up like Malta and others that would not.

[Isleño]

Sicilians, Maltese and Ashkenazi are all closer to one another than any of them is to anyone else. Greeks would be the next closest but they have more North Euro ancestry than the others.Yes true, Sicilians, Maltese and Ashkenazi are the closest to each other, with Greeks not exactly very close, but not far away. But, and I stress but, among the 3 that are close to each other, Maltese and Ashkenazis are closer to each other than to Sicilians. It's very slight, but noticeable.

[Isleño]

But it also says the 3 populations are closer to one another than to anyone else (which is contrary to the notion that Greeks are exactly like Sicilians).

There are regions of Sicily that would come up like Malta and others that would not.
Yes, the three populations are closer to each other than to others. And yes there probably would be some on each island that would be very close, but I'm talking general results from studies. Maltese on average are closer to Askenazis on average than to Sicilians, but like I said, it's only slight.

[Sikeliot]

Yes, the three populations are closer to each other than to others. And yes there probably would be some on each island that would be very close, but I'm talking general results from studies. Maltese on average are closer to Askenazis on average than to Sicilians, but like I said, it's only slight.

And all three closer to one another than to the next closest group, Greeks.

Maltese should be similar (and are) to people in Agrigento in SW Sicily.

[Isleño]

And all three closer to one another than to the next closest group, Greeks.

Maltese should be similar (and are) to people in Agrigento in SW Sicily.
Yes that's true, the three are closer to each other than to the next closest group the Greeks, then the Tuscans, then the Albanians and others in the Balkans, etc. But yes, the three are closer to each other than to any others. As for if there are any Sicilians that would be exactly like Maltese, I'm sure. But at the same time, Malta will have it's extreme types too that probably will not be. Same for the Ashkenazis. But overall, the three are the closest to each other and among the three, the Maltese and Ashkenazis the closest followed by Sicilians.

[Tooting Carmen]

What about mainland Southern Italians? How close are they to Sicilians, Maltese and Ashkenazim?

[alfieb]

Now that I remember Maltese and Sicilian genetic results, Maltese are actually closer to Ashkenazis than Sicilians with slightly less Northern Euro than Sicilians and slightly more North African. So I think what happened is they were Sicilian transplants that picked up more North African along the way and that NA addition probably cut down some of their DNA and some of the northern got the chop :)

It's not hard to figure out why.

If you take Sicilians from Messina and compare them to people from Malta and Gozo (the second largest island of the Republic of Malta), there will be differences, because Maltese peoples' ancestors did not come from Messina.

If you take Sicilians from Syracuse, or Catania, the same story.

But if you take Sicilians from Southern Trapani, Agrigento, and Caltanissetta, and you put their results next to a Maltese, they will look identical. Because Maltese are basically Southwestern Sicilians. That's where their families came from, and those areas coincidentally had the most Phoenician/Carthaginian/Arab/Berber admixture in Sicily.

[Isleño]

It's not hard to figure out why.

If you take Sicilians from Messina and compare them to people from Malta and Gozo (the second largest island of the Republic of Malta), there will be differences, because Maltese peoples' ancestors did not come from Messina.

If you take Sicilians from Syracuse, or Catania, the same story.

But if you take Sicilians from Southern Trapani, Agrigento, and Caltanissetta, and you put their results next to a Maltese, they will look identical. Because Maltese are basically Southwestern Sicilians. That's where their families came from, and those areas coincidentally had the most Phoenician/Carthaginian/Arab/Berber admixture in Sicily.
Yes of course, that's what I was saying. But if we compares apples to apples, in which if we take a study sample of Sicilians and a study sample of Maltese, there will be differences of course. Coupling of like areas you could probably get an identical match, but not if we use these general samples in these studies that are taken from various parts of both islands.

[alfieb]

Yes of course, that's what I was saying. But if we compares apples to apples, in which if we take a study sample of Sicilians and a study sample of Maltese, there will be differences of course. Coupling of like areas you could probably get an identical match, but not if we use these general samples in these studies that are taken from various parts of both islands.

While I'm not a fan of Eurogenes, he/Polako/David W does have separated West_Sicilian and East_Sicilian clusters. I'd imagine that's slightly better for a contrast with Maltese people than a generalized Sicilian cluster is, but being that I don't know of any Maltesers who have accounts on on GEDMatch, I can't really comment.

[Isleño]

While I'm not a fan of Eurogenes, he/Polako/David W does have separated West_Sicilian and East_Sicilian clusters. I'd imagine that's slightly better for a contrast with Maltese people than a generalized Sicilian cluster is, but being that I don't know of any Maltesers who have accounts on on GEDMatch, I can't really comment.
Yes, that's probably best for getting a good comparison rather than a general sample. But you know most peer reviewed studies use a general sample made up of people from all over the location in question. But of course some have specialized reports on them. Also, there is a guy on here that is Maltese, you ask him if he has any results or gedmatch scores you could see.

[alfieb]

Yes, that's probably best for getting a good comparison rather than a general sample. But you know most peer reviewed studies use a general sample made up of people from all over the location in question. But of course some have specialized reports on them. Also, there is a guy on here that is Maltese, you ask him if he has any results or gedmatch scores you could see.

Yeah, I know him pretty well. He's a good guy, sometimes we talk in pidgin Sicilian+Maltese+Italian but I don't think he's on Gedmatch.

[Isleño]

Yeah, I know him pretty well. He's a good guy, sometimes we talk in pidgin Sicilian+Maltese+Italian but I don't think he's on Gedmatch.

Do you speak any of those languages fluently?

[alfieb]

I don't speak Maltese at all, but (roughly) half the Maltese language is derived from Sicilian+Italian and the other half is roughly based on medieval Siculo-Arabic, so it's very easy for Maltese people to understand Sicilian, and if Maltese people want Sicilians to understand them, they know which words to use, and which to not use.

For most words, they have an Arabic-form and a Romance-form.

[Sikeliot]

It's not hard to figure out why.

If you take Sicilians from Messina and compare them to people from Malta and Gozo (the second largest island of the Republic of Malta), there will be differences, because Maltese peoples' ancestors did not come from Messina.

If you take Sicilians from Syracuse, or Catania, the same story.

But if you take Sicilians from Southern Trapani, Agrigento, and Caltanissetta, and you put their results next to a Maltese, they will look identical. Because Maltese are basically Southwestern Sicilians. That's where their families came from, and those areas coincidentally had the most Phoenician/Carthaginian/Arab/Berber admixture in Sicily.


Eastern Sicily and Calabria are one genetic unit, characterized by very low North European admixture, and a high affinity to the Caucasus. "Exotic" elements, such as SW Asian, North African, are low. Western Sicily and Malta are another genetic unit, with higher SW Asian, North African, North European scores, with lower Caucasus.

[alfieb]

Eastern Sicily and Calabria are one genetic unit, characterized by very low North European admixture, and a high affinity to the Caucasus. "Exotic" elements, such as SW Asian, North African, are low. Western Sicily and Malta are another genetic unit, with higher SW Asian, North African, North European scores, with lower Caucasus.

As I've mentioned to you previously, I have over 30% Caucasus on Dodecad K12b. I can only imagine what Eastern Sicilians have, if that's low. :shrug:

[Sikeliot]

As I've mentioned to you previously, I have over 30% Caucasus on Dodecad K12b. I can only imagine what Eastern Sicilians have, if that's low. :shrug:

I thought you have said you score similarly to French people! When you first got your results for something it thought you were French. What is your Dodecad ID?

Closer to 40%.

[alfieb]

What is your Dodecad ID?
Don't remember. He hasn't updated in over a year, and he removed me because I submitted my grandmother without telling him that I was already part of the project.

And I do cluster with the French on 23andMe. Northern Italians on Dodecad.

First McDonald run, he said I was France + Lebanon, now he says I am Spain + Israel.

[Sikeliot]

Don't remember. He hasn't updated in over a year, and he removed me because I submitted my grandmother without telling him that I was already part of the project.

And I do cluster with the French on 23andMe. Northern Italians on Dodecad.

First McDonald run, he said I was France + Lebanon, now he says I am Spain + Israel.


Do you know your grandmother's number? Is she full Sicilian?

How do you score 30% Caucasus but cluster in France??

[alfieb]

Do you know your grandmother's number?
He never emailed me back. I think he saw me as trying to lie to him or break the rules or whatever and got mad. I still think his project is better than the others, though.


Is she full Sicilian?
Absolutely. Born and raised there.


How do you score 30% Caucasus but cluster in France??

I don't score 30% Caucasus on 23andMe.

[Sikeliot]

He never emailed me back. I think he saw me as trying to lie to him or break the rules or whatever and got mad. I still think his project is better than the others, though.


Absolutely. Born and raised there.



I don't score 30% Caucasus on 23andMe.

Not on 23andme, you just said you score 30% Caucasus on Dodecad. How can someone with such admixture cluster in France?

I am curious to see your grandmother's Dodecad results, to see what she gets.

[alfieb]

Not on 23andme, you just said you score 30% Caucasus on Dodecad. How can someone with such admixture cluster in France?

I told you, I cluster in Northern Italy on Dodecad.

[Sikeliot]

I told you, I cluster in Northern Italy on Dodecad.

How is that possible when you score 30% Caucasus? The North Euro score must be very high to pull you so far north.

[alfieb]

How is that possible when you score 30% Caucasus? The North Euro score must be very high to pull you so far north.

Mixedmode yeah, always Sicily, Southern Italy, etc. on one side, then Scandinavia on the other.

[Sikeliot]

Mixedmode yeah, always Sicily, Southern Italy, etc. on one side, then Scandinavia on the other.

So which component do you have less of than typical? The generic Southern European?

[alfieb]

So which component do you have less of than typical? The generic Southern European?

Lower than average SSA, SWA and North African (for a W. Sicilian, anyway).

This could stem from being 1/4 Northern Italian, though, as much as it can from any inbred "Norman ancestry".

[Tiberio]

No, they are not North African, no they are not Arab. They are simply Sicilian transplants.

Fixed.