Canarian Genetic Study

[Isleño]

Canarians are commonly perceived to be predominantly European with minor North African ancestry, some more, some less. But is this true? Let's take a closer look at Canarian genetics in comparison to Iberian genetics and North African genetics. This look into Canarian genetics is based on the study from Pino-Yanes et al., 2011.

Since it's anticipated that Canarians are predominantly European, this thread will examine the North African admixture percentage in Canarians.

Looking at the samples from the study this thread is based on, I counted the number of samples that made up the Canarian sample as a whole. I also counted the number of samples with no North African ancestry, those that are around half to mainly North African ancestry and those with minor North African admixture whom are predominantly European. From what I can tell (I'm rounding the percentage), it looks like about 50% of the samples are mainly European with minor North African admixture, about 30% have no North African admixture and look to be completely European or near full with just a few percent, and about 20% are around half to mainly North African. {50%/30%/20%} Again, this look into Canarian genetics is based on the study from Pino-Yanes et al., 2011.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0018389

IBE=Iberians NWA=North Africans CAN=Canarians_1 CBN=Canarians_2
http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0018389.g003&representation=PNG_L

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0018389.g002&representation=PNG_L

Calculated North African total averages among Canarians as a whole and per island, in comparison to Iberians and North Africans
http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0018389.t002&representation=PNG_L

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0018389.g001&representation=PNG_L

My conclusion of the study is that half of the population of the Canary Islands is predominantly European with minor admixture. Almost One-third of the population is completely European or having around 1-5% admixture and one-fifth is at least half or mostly North African. So it does hold true that most Canarians are predominantly European with minor North African admixture. But surprisingly, a significant portion of the population is purely European and a smaller population is at least half to predominantly North African.

To break it down even further, we can say that 50% are predominantly Euro with minor NA admix (10-20%), 30% are a mix of full and near full Euros (1-5% NA admix), 10% are mestizo types (half Euro/half Berber) and 10% are predominantly Guanche Berber. Of course these numbers have been rounded off. {50/30/10/10}

I fall into the largest group, whom are those of predominantly European ancestry with minor North African admixture as my genetic make-up is 90% European, 10% North African.

Topic open for discussion :thumb001:

[Isleño]

bump

[Lusos]

That's cool.
But why Is there Spanish and Iberian separated ?

Spaniards are Iberians.

[Isleño]

That's cool.
But why Is there Spanish and Iberian separated ?

Spaniards are Iberians.I wondered the same thing. There has to be a particular reason they did this. Maybe the "Iberian" was a sample including both Spanish and Portuguese where the Spanish sample included only Spaniards.

[Lusos]

I wondered the same thing. There has to be a particular reason they did this. Maybe the "Iberian" was a sample including both Spanish and Portuguese where the Spanish sample included only Spaniards.

It's seems of low quality that "Study".
Or they make one as Portuguese and Spaniards.
Or Iberians as a hole.Me think's.

[Isleño]

It's seems of low quality that "Study".
Or they make one as Portuguese and Spaniards.
Or Iberians as a hole.Me think's.

No, it's a good study, it's very accurate and is in line with other studies I've seen on Canarians. But as far as the thing with that Iberian/Spaniard on the plot, the only thing I could guess is that the "Iberian" sample includes Portuguese where the "Spaniard" sample only included Spaniards. I'm almost sure that's what it means.

[Bell Beaker]

The Guanches weren't Berbers after all?

[Isleño]

The Guanches weren't Berbers after all?Yes they were Berbers, but I also have a hunch that they were a mix of Proto Berber Capsian types and Iberomaurusian descended types.

[Isleño]

The Guanches weren't Berbers after all?I know a few Guanches were taken to Iberia and the Americas also.

[Isleño]

The Guanches weren't Berbers after all?

What I think will be quite a surprise for many, is that 1/3 of the population is purely European and has no Guanche ancestry. The other 2/3 does.

[Bell Beaker]

What I think will be quite a surprise for many, is that 1/3 of the population is purely European and has no Guanche ancestry. The other 2/3 does.

Are you talking about Canarians? After all i heard that Berberians were White, now the vast majority of Berbers are mixed with arabs. But there are some who never mixed with arabs.

[Isleño]

Are you talking about Canarians? After all i heard that Berberians were White, now the vast majority of Berbers are mixed with arabs. But there are some who never mixed with arabs.

Yes, I'm talking about Canarians. 2/3 of Canarians have Guanche admixture whether it's minor (50% of the population) or major (20% of the population), and 1/3 has none and is purely European.

As for Guanches vs. North African mainland Berbers, the Guanches were of the purest type of Berbers.

[Gaston]

As for Guanches vs. North African mainland Berbers, the Guanches were of the purest type of Berbers.

Not at all. When Spaniards conquered the Canaries, they brought with them West African slaves. Nowadays, Canarians can have West African ancestry as well as New World ancestry (wich comes with Native admix).

[Isleño]

Not at all. When Spaniards conquered the Canaries, they brought with them West African slaves. Nowadays, Canarians can have West African ancestry as well as New World ancestry (wich comes with Native admix).
Most of the West Africans were sent out to the Caribbean. I don't know what "New World ancestry" you are talking about, because nothing else shows up in DNA tests. The SSA in modern Canarians is very low, usually between 0%-3% and that's from the Guanches mainly who only had a few percent, nothing like in current North Africa. I'm 0.5% SSA and I'm 10% Guanche, you do the math.

[Isleño]

Interestingly, in contrast, I counted the Iberian samples and just under 50% show North African admixture, but very small for most of them. Only 4 samples had significant admixture and were at least about half or mostly North African, which is just under 20% of the total of those with NA admixture. The other "little more than 50%" looks to have none.

Iberia has a little less than double the percentage of those purely European than the Canary Islands and the Canary Islands has a little less than 1 1/2 times the percentage of people with NA admixture of any amount, than Iberia. It's interesting when you break it down like that.

[Wadaad]

Are you talking about Canarians? After all i heard that Berberians were White, now the vast majority of Berbers are mixed with arabs. But there are some who never mixed with arabs.

Berbers werent 'white' prior to mixing with arabs

Not according to themselves, nor to the Arabs...

[Isleño]

Berbers werent 'white' prior to mixing with arabs

Not according to themselves, nor to the Arabs...

That whole argument of who is white and who is not gets tiring because white changes from region to region and people who are seen as white can change over the years. Same with black.

[pinguino]

Berbers werent 'white' prior to mixing with arabs

Not according to themselves, nor to the Arabs...

Arabs are white?

[Wadaad]

Arabs are white?

My point is Arabization did not make Berbers non-white...since they never were white to begin with.

[Isleño]

Arabs are white?
In many parts of Latin America, Arab speaking Levantines such as Lebanese and some North Africans are seen as white. In other parts of the world they are not seen as white. That's why this "white" thing is tiring. No one can stick with a single definition of what white is. Look at the U.S., the government census created a definition for white and it's anyone with origins in Europe, the Middle East or North Africa. Literally the U.S. Census website has this in print. But in U.S. society, many only see Europeans as white, and some actually follow that U.S. Census definition. But again, "white" changes from region to region so it's tiresome. Same with "black". White and black are stupid classifications. I think people should go by ancestral region and ethno-racial classifications specific to their ancestral groups and throw this white, black, brown, red and yellow thing out the window.

[Damião de Góis]

That's cool.
But why Is there Spanish and Iberian separated ?

Spaniards are Iberians.

Spaniards and Portuguese usually overlap in a very confusing cluster. Since this isn't the case, i will assume that the spanish cluster includes basques.

[Isleño]

Spaniards and Portuguese usually overlap in a very confusing cluster. Since this isn't the case, i will assume that the spanish cluster includes basques.

Ah yes, the Basque. That's a good point Alex. That's probably right. To me, the Spanish cluster on the plot would just be Spaniards where the Iberian would include both Spaniards and Portuguese in a single sample as an Iberian sample. But we are both probably right. Did you learn anything new about Canarians from this study or you pretty much knew all of this?

[Damião de Góis]

Ah yes, the Basque. That's a good point Alex. That's probably right. To me, the Spanish cluster on the plot would just be Spaniards where the Iberian would include both Spaniards and Portuguese in a single sample as an Iberian sample. But we are both probably right. Did you learn anything new about Canarians from this study or you pretty much knew all of this?

I had already seen the Canarians on Dodecad. They are only two but it's enough to appreciate some differences.

[Isleño]

I had already seen the Canarians on Dodecad. They are only two but it's enough to appreciate some differences.

There are over 100 Canarian samples in this study taken from all parts of the islands, so I think it's probably more extensive than the Dodecad results on Canarians. Canarians are not that different than Iberians, well most of us. I think most people see Canarians as a predominantly European people with minor North African admixture and that's true of most of us, as 50% of our population is like this. But what many people do not know, the other 50% of the population is made up of full Euro types and half/predominantly North African types. 30% is the percentage of full Euros and 20% is the percentage of half/predominantly North African types. These percentages are based on this study.

[pinguino]

My goodness... Uber Iberians recognizing they are partly Africans.

[pinguino]

My point is Arabization did not make Berbers non-white...since they never were white to begin with.

Berbers like Kabyles are Caucasoid. Tuaregs are mulattoes. That has been that way since Ancient times. Berbers, aren't Arabs or Somalians.

[Isleño]

My goodness... Uber Iberians recognizing they are partly Africans.From the sample on Iberians in this study, just under 50% have some sort of North African admixture, but only 10% of the total have anything substantial. 90% in the study have only trivial amounts. This is of course North African Berber admixture. Notice the North Africans are just the opposite as the Iberians, they are mostly North African with trivial amounts of European DNA. But it's Canarians that actually have sizeable amounts within the population. Among Canarians, you have those with just a little, those with none and those with a lot. The Canary Islands kinda repeats some of the same patterns you see in Latin America, just there is less of the native element than in Latin America. Most of our people are predominantly European with minor North African admixture, but a portion of our population are full Euros and a portion is of half/predominantly North African types.

[pinguino]

Yes, the Guanches were the first victims of Iberian expansionism to the West. The first natives wiped out of existence by the barbarians. They were a North African group (Berber related) that disappeared by invasion and admixture. The same happened in most of the Americas, only than here natives were Mongoloids of the Siberian-Turk branch.

[Isleño]

Berbers like Kabyles are Caucasoid. Tuaregs are mulattoes. That has been that way since Ancient times. Berbers, aren't Arabs or Somalians.

The Berbers of the Canary Islands that were present before the Spanish conquest of the islands were of two types, one type more like Riffians and Kabyles, and one type like Mozabites. This is why I think the Guanches were a mix of Caspian and Afalou types. The SSA element in the Guanche mummies was at around 6%. My SSA is 0.5% as I'm 10% Guanche and I'm an admixed Criollo. So at my 0.5% x 10 would equal out to be around 5% SSA if I would be a full blooded Guanche. Guanches had low SSA compared to many North Africans today.

[Isleño]

Yes, the Guanches were the first victims of Iberian expansionism to the West. The first natives wiped out of existence by the barbarians. They were a North African group (Berber related) that disappeared by invasion and admixture. The same happened in most of the Americas, only than here natives were Mongoloids of the Siberian-Turk branch.
True, the Guanches were the first to face Spanish colonization. They suffered the same fate as Amerindians in the Caribbean islands such as the Taino. Guanches do not survive as a distinct tribe today. There are individuals that are almost fully Guanche as in this study one person included was 96% Guanche, but they are few and far in-between. 20% of the Canarian population is in-between half and almost fully Guanche. The remaining 80% of the population is predominantly European. Most people in my community that have taken DNA tests that I've seen range usually between 10-20%, but I've seen some that were 25% and 30%, it just depends. I'm actually the lowest for a Canarian with admixture, as I'm 10%. I'm an admixed criollo. But I have relatives that have more than I do. It just depends on the family and where we came from and which island. Some of our people don't have any, it just depends. As for calling people barbarians, I don't like to call names. I descend from both of them, so I respect both of them. There are some Canarians that want Canary Islands to be independent, and they usually favor their Guanche ancestry and there are some Canarians that want Canary Islands to remain part of Spain and they usually favor their Iberian ancestry.

[pinguino]

... I'm an admixed criollo. But I have relatives that have more than I do. It just depends on the family and where we came from and which island. Some of our people don't have any, it just depends. As for calling people barbarians, I don't like to call names. I descend from both of them, so I respect both of them. There are some Canarians that want Canary Islands to be independent, and they usually favor their Guanche ancestry and there are some Canarians that want Canary Islands to remain part of Spain and they usually favor their Iberian ancestry.

The same ambiguity in identity exist in here, and almost in all Latin America. Some are on the side of the invaders and others defend natives. I belong to the last party.

[B01AB20]

That's cool.
But why Is there Spanish and Iberian separated ?

Spaniards are Iberians.

maybe because in 'spaniards' are included canarians, but not in 'iberians'.

iberian is an ethnic identity but spaniard is more a political identity.

[Isleño]

The same ambiguity in identity exist in here, and almost in all Latin America. Some are on the side of the invaders and others defend natives. I belong to the last party.

Well to me it wouldn't make any sense if I was all "gung-ho" about Guanches, because I'm only 10%. I'm 90% European. It would make sense that I should be Eurocentric. Don't get me wrong, I respect and love my Guanche ancestors, but to "play Guanche", I don't think I have enough ancestry for that. But I respect them both equally and never talk bad about either. That seems to be working for me here. Canarians are not the average Spaniards, we are NA influenced Spaniards, well most of us at least. I've seen the same thing among Latin Americans how some choose a side. The ones in the Canary Islands that defend the Guanches say things like "Canarias no es España" and "putos godos" (godo is nickname for a peninsular Spaniard that goes to the Canary Islands and acts arrogant and rude to the locals), then there are those that love the peninsula and want to remain Spain and wave the Spanish flag proudly and say things like "Esto es España". I've seen this sort of thing in Latin America also.

[pinguino]

Very interesting. Thanks for your opinion. I learn something new and really interesting for me.

[Isleño]

maybe because in 'spaniards' are include canarians, but not in 'iberians'.

iberian is an ethnic identity but spaniard is more a political identity.

This could be true also. But if that was the case, don't you think "Spaniard" would have been pulled closer to where "Iberian" is since Isleños typically have a little more North African than peninsulares? Notice Canary Islander is on the plot too. So I think probably Canarian is excluded from "Spaniard" since it's on the plot already, but Spaniard probably just doesn't have Portuguese in the sample. And since North African admixture is higher in west Iberia, Portugal being added would probably pull the "Iberian" sample in a tad closer toward North Africa than the "Spaniard" sample. Just a thought. What do you think?

[Isleño]

Very interesting. Thanks for your opinion. I learn something new and really interesting for me.
This is the location of the Canary Islands in relation to the peninsula and North Africa:


http://www.photos4travel.com/sites/default/files/location-canary-islands.gif


It's like Spain's Hawaii.

[alfieb]

This is the location of the Canary Islands in relation to the peninsula and North Africa:


http://www.photos4travel.com/sites/default/files/location-canary-islands.gif


It's like Spain's Hawaii.

Indeed, except that Hawaii's population is mostly Asian, whereas in Spain's Hawaii, the population is mostly European. :lol:

It's like Spain's Azores.

[Isleño]

Indeed, except that Hawaii's population is mostly Asian, whereas in Spain's Hawaii, the population is mostly European. :lol:

It's like Spain's Azores.Yes you could say that. I referred to Hawaii because I live in the United States and this is a familiar thought for me. But you are right :)

The Canaries are a wonderful place with flavors in the culture of three regions: Southern Europe, North Africa and Latin America. The Canary Islands are part of the country of Spain and most of us descend from Iberians predominantly, so the Spanish cultures and way of life is mixed into our local culture which also blends North African elements (we also partially descend from them too) along with elements from Latin America since the Canary Islands was the bridge to Latin America. Many Canarians immigrated to Latin America, especially the Spanish speaking Caribbean areas, and many returned bringing more Latin America flavors (at the same time lending our cultural flavors to Latin America when many of us immigrated there, many times the cultural flavors we brought back were our own that we developed in Latin America). So our culture is like a three way mix of those regions. Canary Islands is also a beautiful Atlantic island chain.

[Vasconcelos]

It's like Spain's Madeira.

Fixed.

[alfieb]

Fixed.

My bad, bro. I don't really know all that much about Portugal, being that Sicily's history gravitates much closer to Spain. :p

[Vasconcelos]

My bad, bro. I don't really know all that much about Portugal, being that Sicily's history gravitates much closer to Spain. :p

It's okay!

However neither Madeira nor the Azores were inhabited when they were discovered. I just "fixed" because Madeira is much closer to Canarias than the Azores.

[alfieb]

It's okay!

However neither Madeira nor the Azores were inhabited when they were discovered. I just "fixed" because Madeira is much closer to Canarias than the Azores.

Well, the Azores are in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, so the only people who might've lived there before the Portuguese would be the Atlanteans from Atlantis.

[Isleño]

Well, the Azores are in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, so the only people who might've lived there before the Portuguese would be the Atlanteans from Atlantis.

Don't you know? Canary Islands, Azores and Madeira ARE Atlantis! :)

[alfieb]

Don't you know? Canary Islands, Azores and Madeira ARE Atlantis! :)

Don't tell that to my brothers in Malta. They like to claim that they are Atlantis. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Location_hypotheses_of_Atlantis#Malta)

[Isleño]

It's okay!

However neither Madeira nor the Azores were inhabited when they were discovered. I just "fixed" because Madeira is much closer to Canarias than the Azores.
I study Spain so much, I forget Portugal! Don't the people of those Portuguese islands have some admixture?

[Isleño]

Don't tell that to my brothers in Malta. They like to claim that they are Atlantis. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Location_hypotheses_of_Atlantis#Malta)Well we'll just let them believe that. We all know where Atlantis was said to be :)

". . . which had elapsed since the war which was said to have taken place between those who dwelt outside the Pillars of Heracles and all who dwelt within them; this war I am going to describe. Of the combatants on the one side, the city of Athens was reported to have been the leader and to have fought out the war; the combatants on the other side were commanded by the kings of Atlantis, which, as was saying, was an island greater in extent than Libya and Asia, and when afterwards sunk by an earthquake, became an impassable barrier of mud to voyagers sailing from hence to any part of the ocean." -Critias account, Plato-


https://cdn-assets.answersingenesis.org/img/articles/2010/02/kircher-map.jpg

https://cdn-assets.answersingenesis.org/img/articles/2010/02/islands.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01318/atlantis_1318187c.jpg

[alfieb]

Oh, there's no doubt that they don't pass the test when you use the Platonic location being beyond Gibraltar, but romantic nationalism and patriotism aren't supposed to make sense. :lol:

The oldest human structures in the world are supposedly in Malta, so that justifies the claim in their eyes. Since they're our little brothers and have an inferiority complex because they are often overlooked and even emitted from maps, I completely understand why they want this so badly. :P

[Cristiano viejo]

I know a few Guanches were taken to Iberia and the Americas also.

Yes, as slaves.
According the first colonizers in Canarias, Berbers could be since light skin tone until dark skin.

And I am not surprised that a good percentage of Canarians be of pure European stock, but I wonder of that there are Canarians with more than 50% of North African blood.

[Isleño]

Yes, as slaves.
According the first colonizers in Canarias, Berbers could be since light skin tone until dark skin.

And I am not surprised that a good percentage of Canarians be of pure European stock, but I wonder of that there are Canarians with more than 50% of North African blood.Yes, there were two main types of Guanches, the lighter type that had many blondes in their population and had lighter skin although some were tan color, and the other type that were darker and had dark hair. Over time the two combined. Christopher Columbus (Cristóbal Colón) said of the Indians when he arrived in the Americas that they "were the color of Canary Islanders", so apparently he was referring to the darker type.

And yes the Guanches that were brought to the peninsula were taken as slaves. Some Guanche genetic markers have been found in the peninsula in some Iberians. As for modern Canarians, yes a large percentage is of pure European stock (30% of the population), but also a sizeable percentage of the population (20%) is made up of people ranging from half Guanche to near full Guanche. There was one individual in this study that was 96% Guanche. So the Guanche range is from 0%-96%, with most Canarians being predominantly Euro (80-90%) with 10-20% NA admix. Most people see us as a European dominant people with minor Guanche admixture, and that's true for the most part as more than half of the population is like this. But we do have minority groups of pure Euro and half/predominantly Guanche too, just the group I belong to is the majority. But the thing is, I learned this from studying DNA studies on Canarians, among about people we all thing we are predominantly Euro with minor Guanche admixture. I don't think the pure ones know they are pure and I don't think the half/predominantly Guanche ones know they are like that. We just see ourselves as one. Just Canarian people. It's strange to learn this about my people when we don't know this among our communities.

As you can see in one of the diagrams I posted from the study, there are different averages per island. The total for all islands combined was 17.4%. The smallest average came from Gran Canaria at 12.4% and the largest was from La Gomera (the island with most of that 20% that are half or predominantly Guanche) and it was 42%. All the other island averages were between 14% and 21%. I have 10%, I have a low Guanche score for a non-pure Euro type.

[Isleño]

Oh, there's no doubt that they don't pass the test when you use the Platonic location being beyond Gibraltar, but romantic nationalism and patriotism aren't supposed to make sense. :lol:

The oldest human structures in the world are supposedly in Malta, so that justifies the claim in their eyes. Since they're our little brothers and have an inferiority complex because they are often overlooked and even emitted from maps, I completely understand why they want this so badly. :P
Well we don't mind, because we know the truth. You can see the map that was drawn from ancient times and the google earth photo, the large underwater island in the middle and the Canaries and Azores/Madeira being the other two. The writing is on the wall. Did you see the pic that looks like a grid of roads underwater? Cool stuff man. I need to make a thread about that.

[Damião de Góis]

I study Spain so much, I forget Portugal! Don't the people of those Portuguese islands have some admixture?

No. What they have different is their very strange accents.

[B01AB20]

This could be true also. But if that was the case, don't you think "Spaniard" would have been pulled closer to where "Iberian" is since Isleños typically have a little more North African than peninsulares? Notice Canary Islander is on the plot too. So I think probably Canarian is excluded from "Spaniard" since it's on the plot already, but Spaniard probably just doesn't have Portuguese in the sample. And since North African admixture is higher in west Iberia, Portugal being added would probably pull the "Iberian" sample in a tad closer toward North Africa than the "Spaniard" sample. Just a thought. What do you think?

despite being here for a little while I can't understand these genetic plots properly, I confess.

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0018389.g001&representation=PNG_L

what does it mean 1st diemesion? and 2nd dimension?

ans spaniards nearer of polish and swedish than of italains in the 2nd dimension?, and in the 1st dimension too...

and spaniards closer to other europeans than iberians??? (in these 2 diemnsions at least)

????????????????????????

[alfieb]

No. What they have different is their very strange accents.

All Romance speakers can say the same for you! :lol:

[Cristiano viejo]

I agree with your post, overall with that of comparing the skin colour of Guanches with that of Caribeans. Colón called it "olive skin" textually.

But I don share that of Guanche markers in Iberia, first because those Guanches were slaves and slaves did not reproduce with Iberian natives, and second because what you could call Guanche marker possibly is North African marker ie E1b1, and that haplogroup did not arrive to Iberia from Guanches but from Neolithic times.

[Isleño]

I agree with your post, overall with that of comparing the skin colour of Guanches with that of Caribeans. Colón called it "olive skin" textually.

But I don share that of Guanche markers in Iberia, first because those Guanches were slaves and slaves did not reproduce with Iberian natives, and second because what you could call Guanche marker possibly is North African marker ie E1b1, and that haplogroup did not arrive to Iberia from Guanches but from Neolithic times.
I had read about the Guanche markers in the peninsula. I can try to search for what I read. I don't remember the details of it, but I can try to search for what I read about it.

[Isleño]

No. What they have different is their very strange accents.
That's what the peninsulares say about us. They think we sound like Cubans and Venezuelans when we speak Spanish. I was watching a video once by two peninsulares and one was supposed to be playing a Canarian and he kept saying "Chico" like a Cuban, because they were trying to make us seem like we sound like Cubans. We don't say chico, we say chacho, mijo or mi niño. But they think our accents sound like Cubans and Venezuelans. But anyway, it was a comedy skit.

[Damião de Góis]

That's what the peninsulares say about us. They think we sound like Cubans and Venezuelans when we speak Spanish. I was watching a video once by two peninsulares and one was supposed to be playing a Canarian and he kept saying "Chico" like a Cuban, because they were trying to make us seem like we sound like Cubans. We don't say chico, we say chacho, mijo or mi niño. But they think our accents sound like Cubans and Venezuelans. But anyway, it was a comedy skit.

I don't know how it is with spaniards. But it's mission impossible to look at a portuguese person and guess the region they're from (including the islands). You're bound to fail.
If they open their mouth and start to talk however, their origin becomes much clearer.

[Isleño]

I agree with your post, overall with that of comparing the skin colour of Guanches with that of Caribeans. Colón called it "olive skin" textually.

But I don share that of Guanche markers in Iberia, first because those Guanches were slaves and slaves did not reproduce with Iberian natives, and second because what you could call Guanche marker possibly is North African marker ie E1b1, and that haplogroup did not arrive to Iberia from Guanches but from Neolithic times.

This is the quote I saw:

"Guanche genetic markers have also been found recently in Puerto Rico and, at low frequencies, in peninsular Spain, probably as a result of slavery and/or later emigration from the Canary Islands."

Maca-Meyer N, Villar J, Pérez-Méndez L, Cabrera de León A, Flores C (November 2004). "A tale of aborigines, conquerors and slaves: Alu insertion polymorphisms and the peopling of Canary Islands".

[Anthropologique]

I study Spain so much, I forget Portugal! Don't the people of those Portuguese islands have some admixture?

No. Azoreans are, at core, N. and S. Portuguese with some Flemish and French (also present in the mainland). You do find some individuals with Cape Verdean admixture (e.g., C. Ronaldo) in Madeira but it's a very small minority. Madeirans are essentially like Azoreans with some a little British blended in.

[Isleño]

I don't know how it is with spaniards. But it's mission impossible to look at a portuguese person and guess the region they're from (including the islands). You're bound to fail.
If they open their mouth and start to talk however, their origin becomes much clearer.
I think it's the same with Spaniards. Even Canarians many times look identical to Iberians, so you can't even go by that. But speech gives you away. They say our accent sounds like Cubans or Venezuelans, and I listen to those accents and they do sound close. But I can tell the difference, but maybe for someone from the peninsula they may get them confused. But if you listen to Andalusian accents, they sometimes have a similar sound, but not as exacting as Canarian accents would be. But it makes sense since the Canarian accents and Caribbean accents were born from Andalusian accents as a root.

[Isleño]

No. Azoreans are, at core, N. and S. Portuguese with some Flemish and French (also present in the mainland). You do find some individuals with Cape Verdean admixture (e.g., C. Ronaldo) in Madeira but it's a very small minority. Madeirans are essentially like Azoreans with some a little British blended in.

Cool Anthro, I'll remember that. I had thought they were just like Portuguese, but someone once told me they had admixtures, now that I think about it, from Cabo verde.

[Isleño]

despite being here for a little while I can't understand these genetic plots properly, I confess.

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0018389.g001&representation=PNG_L

what does it mean 1st diemesion? and 2nd dimension?

ans spaniards nearer of polish and swedish than of italains in the 2nd dimension?, and in the 1st dimension too...

and spaniards closer to other europeans than iberians??? (in these 2 diemnsions at least)

????????????????????????

The study is attached in a link if you want to go read some of it.

[Damião de Góis]

Cool Anthro, I'll remember that. I had thought they were just like Portuguese, but someone once told me they had admixtures, now that I think about it, from Cabo verde.

Cape Verde is not a part of Portugal. Not since 1975.

[Cristiano viejo]

This is the quote I saw:

"Guanche genetic markers have also been found recently in Puerto Rico and, at low frequencies, in peninsular Spain, probably as a result of slavery and/or later emigration from the Canary Islands."

Maca-Meyer N, Villar J, Pérez-Méndez L, Cabrera de León A, Flores C (November 2004). "A tale of aborigines, conquerors and slaves: Alu insertion polymorphisms and the peopling of Canary Islands".

I am pretty sure: recent migration.
But again, what is Guanche marker?? it must be e1b1, no?? or some subclade of that haplogroup?

[Isleño]

Cape Verde is not a part of Portugal. Not since 1975.
Yes I know, I just meant that someone told me they had admixture from Cabo verde.

[Isleño]

I am pretty sure: recent migration.
But again, what is Guanche marker?? it must be e1b1, no?? or some subclade of that haplogroup?
Yes, I didn't really understand that, because if it was a Y chromosome, it would have been some form of E1b1b, usually E-M81. Unless it was female slaves and the mtDNA would be the Canarian-specific U6b1, then I could understand. But I don't know, it's just something I read, it's not like a study I could really verify it properly.

[Isleño]

bump

[Kamal900]

2/3 of the population have some berber ancestry, and they are admixed in the maternal line, which involves a european spanish man and a guanche woman(67 percent of the population maternal lineages are north african). In the past, they were more like the mestizo, but now, they are like many white brazilians, mainly because the continuous admixture with iberian males until their blood became diluted. The other 1/3 came from immigration in later period of the Island, and not just from spain only, but also from Italy, france, and germany(to some extent).

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

Interesting thread you open hermano. My thoughts exactly.

[Gaston]

What are your McDonald's results?

[Sikeliot]

All Romance speakers can say the same for you! :lol:

Portuguese sounds similar to Russian to me. When I hear people speaking Russian, I think it sounds like incomprehensible Portuguese.

Anyway about the results it is clear that Canarians do have North African ancestry compared to other Iberians, but even a rare Iberian has a lot.

Also, unsurprisingly the Greek and Italian clusters highly overlap. I suspect that they both consist of people from all over their respective countries.

[Isleño]

2/3 of the population have some berber ancestry, and they are admixed in the maternal line, which involves a european spanish man and a guanche woman(67 percent of the population maternal lineages are north african). In the past, they were more like the mestizo, but now, they are like many white brazilians, mainly because the continuous admixture with iberian males until their blood became diluted. The other 1/3 came from immigration in later period of the Island, and not just from spain only, but also from Italy, france, and germany(to some extent).Yes, I know the Guanche came to us through the maternal side. And from the numbers of this sample 2/3 of us have Guanche ancestry and 1/3 doesn't. But they didn't take any DNA from recent immigrants. I'm sure the current population of the Canaries has had some immigration over the last century or two and most of it being Iberian (immigration from Italy, France and Germany was very small, I know this story), but I believe the pure Euro section of the population was always there in the past. But of course it seems most of us are like everyone thinks, predominantly European with minor Guanche admixture.

[Isleño]

Interesting thread you open hermano. My thoughts exactly.

Bueno hermano, I'm glad you decide to pass by and take a look. In the past I thought the Canarian people were one people with everyone having the same exact components only varying slightly per island. Well it turns out that most of us are like that yes, but there is a significant percentage of us that are pure European and a significant percentage that are at least half Berber all the way up to predominantly Berber. Kinda like in Latin America how there is large variation. In a way I feel saddened because in the past I thought of us as one, now it's like we are divided almost. But that's ok, because the majority of us are like I previously thought and are predominantly European with Guanche admixture.

[Isleño]

Portuguese sounds similar to Russian to me. When I hear people speaking Russian, I think it sounds like incomprehensible Portuguese.

Anyway about the results it is clear that Canarians do have North African ancestry compared to other Iberians, but even a rare Iberian has a lot.

Also, unsurprisingly the Greek and Italian clusters highly overlap. I suspect that they both consist of people from all over their respective countries.
Yes, the study has a widespread of samples, not just from one or two locations, so it would make sense that they did it about the Greeks and Italians just like they did with the Canarians and Iberians. As for CI, it also says most of that population of half/predominantly Berber Canarians are from La Gomera. So I assume the other 2/3 of our population represents all the other islands better. And it's not like the pure Euro population is concentrated, but spread out among the islands. But again, it seems my type is the majority, the predominantly European with minor Berber admixture. Still, it's interesting to know the truth. But then again, you have a few among the Iberian samples that are similar.

[Isleño]

What are your McDonald's results?
All of my tests from several different results all are in the range of 88-90% European, 10-12% North African (I'm rounding of course). The only one that gave me higher NA was on Gedmatch and it was 15% on one of them, but that was an odd result when most are around 10% range.

[ButlerKing]

Are you talking about Canarians? After all i heard that Berberians were White, now the vast majority of Berbers are mixed with arabs. But there are some who never mixed with arabs.

Are you crazy? why do people still believe vast majority of Berbers are mixed with Arabs. The arabs of north african today are not really Arabs ( they are Arabiszed) . They just converted to muslim and adopted arab way after being ruled by Arabs.

[Isleño]

Are you crazy? why do people still believe vast majority of Berbers are mixed with Arabs. The arabs of north african today are not really Arabs ( they are Arabiszed) . They just converted to muslim and adopted arab way after being ruled by Arabs.Yes I would say that most Berbers in North Africa are not Arab admixed, but there are a few. It seems the Mozabites are the most genetic NA among all Berbers. But if you think about it, there was some Arab and European admixture to enter some North African populations from both prehistoric and ancient times. Look at what happened when the Moors were pushed out of Iberia, along with those ethnic Moors were converted Muslim Spaniards and also Middle Easterners from places like Syria. But of course most Berbers are mainly Berber. But there are a few with admixture. Look at the Northwest African sample in the OP of this thread, there is some Iberian in the sample.

[ButlerKing]

Yes, the Guanches were the first victims of Iberian expansionism to the West. The first natives wiped out of existence by the barbarians. They were a North African group (Berber related) that disappeared by invasion and admixture. The same happened in most of the Americas, only than here natives were Mongoloids of the Siberian-Turk branch.

Amerindians are not related with Siberian Turks. They've been so genetically isolated from Asians that they are their different race. I've always treated Amerindians as different to Asians as Middle easterners are different to Europeans . Also Amerindians have a lot of primitive traits that weren't evolved like Mongoloids in Asia ( Except for Ainu and Taiwan aborigines ).

[ButlerKing]

2/3 of the population have some berber ancestry, and they are admixed in the maternal line, which involves a european spanish man and a guanche woman(67 percent of the population maternal lineages are north african). In the past, they were more like the mestizo, but now, they are like many white brazilians, mainly because the continuous admixture with iberian males until their blood became diluted. The other 1/3 came from immigration in later period of the Island, and not just from spain only, but also from Italy, france, and germany(to some extent).

Ethnic canarians today

Most look white but a lot look middle eastern-ish. I still think the vast majority of the north african berbers look more like middle easterners and that has nothing to do with Arabs. Even the blondes North Africans in many cases are like blondes with semites/middle eastern features. Like some of those pale skinned blonde syrian or lebanese but they still have those middle eastern hook noses and semite characteristics about them.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3163/5705430512_e2e71af724.jpg
http://www.huaxlee.com/Image/200862223564929677801.jpg
http://images.agregame.com/imagenes/gente/medium/stamp_e6926a5d19cb2648bb13c69f7963733a.jpg
http://sp3.fotolog.com/photo/51/55/28/mbmk/1284038559201_f.jpg
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/images/stories/large/2009/12/29/Spain_Julio_ed.jpg
http://www.canaryislanders.org/fiesta9.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Yes I would say that most Berbers in North Africa are not Arab admixed, but there are a few. It seems the Mozabites are the most genetic NA among all Berbers. But if you think about it, there was some Arab and European admixture to enter some North African populations from both prehistoric and ancient times. Look at what happened when the Moors were pushed out of Iberia, along with those ethnic Moors were converted Muslim Spaniards and also Middle Easterners from places like Syria. But of course most Berbers are mainly Berber. But there are a few with admixture. Look at the Northwest African sample in the OP of this thread, there is some Iberian in the sample.

I have looked thousands of pictures of Berbers. The average berber look like typical of North African people and I would have mistake them for being middle easterner rather than European but I think they have their own DNA and own racial phenotype. They do look distinctive to middle easterners but it's still something closer.

Majority of Canarian look European ( a significant look non-european )


However even the Guanches who were reported blonde were most likely not european. They were reported with both light blonde and dark brown with dark hair

The guaches with blonde hair properly had North African facial features but are just light. You can see some random people in arabian penisula or kurds with those facial features but are clearly ain't european facial traits.

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/01/6e/0b/016e0b58ea93e707bdbf632753018c10.jpg
http://z3.ifrm.com/67/29/0/p394935/455746.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/10/16/article-0-18C0A6B500000578-464_964x681.jpg

[Isleño]

Ethnic canarians today

They look middle eastern-ish. I still think the vast majority of the north african berbers look more like middle easterners and that has nothing to do with Arabs. Even the blondes North Africans in many cases are like blondes with semites/middle eastern features. Like some of those pale skinned blonde syrian or lebanese but they still have those middle eastern hook noses and semite characteristics about them.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3163/5705430512_e2e71af724.jpg
http://www.huaxlee.com/Image/200862223564929677801.jpg
http://images.agregame.com/imagenes/gente/medium/stamp_e6926a5d19cb2648bb13c69f7963733a.jpg
http://sp3.fotolog.com/photo/51/55/28/mbmk/1284038559201_f.jpg
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/images/stories/large/2009/12/29/Spain_Julio_ed.jpg
http://www.canaryislanders.org/fiesta9.jpg
The fat man in the black on the last pic is my relative. He's a politician. I saw him last March and had some grilled seafood with him.

But just like these pics you posted, there are those that don't look like that, like these:

http://www.lahiguera.net/cinemania/actores/kira_miro/fotos/4133/kira_miro.jpg

http://makeupanddreams.es/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/grande_20152_872318_32c790362c71e8446afe2f4edd9593 cf.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fPnfICyr--Q/Tbxwz3gc24I/AAAAAAAAAaE/mx4afDkMLbE/s320/coloretta.png

Because the population is varied. Most are predominantly European with minor NA admixture in which some can look completely Euro or off-Euro. Then take into consideration there are a few that are pure Euro and a few that are half Berbers/predominantly Berbers. So we vary in looks.

I think most Canarians look like these types:

http://www.elperiodicodecanarias.es/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/De-izq-a-dcha-Fernando-Su%C3%A1rez-Larry-%C3%81lvarez-y-Yeray-Rodr%C3%ADguez-en-la-presentaci%C3%B3n-de-las-actividades.-660x330.jpg

[ButlerKing]

The fat man in the black on the last pic is my relative. He's a politician. I saw him last March and had some grilled seafood with him.

But just like these pics you posted, there are those that don't look like that, like these:

http://www.lahiguera.net/cinemania/actores/kira_miro/fotos/4133/kira_miro.jpg

http://makeupanddreams.es/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/grande_20152_872318_32c790362c71e8446afe2f4edd9593 cf.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fPnfICyr--Q/Tbxwz3gc24I/AAAAAAAAAaE/mx4afDkMLbE/s320/coloretta.png

Because the population is varied. Most are predominantly European with minor NA admixture in which some can look completely Euro or off-Euro. Then take into consideration there are a few that are pure Euro and a few that are half Berbers/predominantly Berbers. So we vary in looks.

I think most Canarians look like these types:

http://www.elperiodicodecanarias.es/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/De-izq-a-dcha-Fernando-Su%C3%A1rez-Larry-%C3%81lvarez-y-Yeray-Rodr%C3%ADguez-en-la-presentaci%C3%B3n-de-las-actividades.-660x330.jpg

I got a bit careless. Which is why I have re-edited and said " most of them look European and many look middle eastern-ish ".


Yes. Most Canarians are typical of South European phenotypes.


But a lot of them clearly aren't so european looking. They look like people from North Africa

http://www.as.com/recorte/20080929dasdasftb_28/C280/Ies/20080929dasdasftb_28.jpg
http://media1.imbresources.org/files/74/7447/7447-41442.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p202/Apollo3000/Yeray_Vargas.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Young canarians.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p202/Apollo3000/MisprimosLoshijosdePino.jpg

[Isleño]

I have looked thousands of pictures of Berbers. The average berber look like typical of North African people and I would have mistake them for being middle easterner rather than European but I think they have their own DNA and own racial phenotype. They do look distinctive to middle easterners but it's still something closer.

Majority of Canarian look European ( a significant look non-european )


However even the Guanches who were reported blonde were most likely not european. They were reported with both light blonde and dark brown with dark hair

The guaches with blonde hair properly had North African facial features but are just light. You can see some random people in arabian penisula or kurds with those facial features but are clearly ain't european facial traits.

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/01/6e/0b/016e0b58ea93e707bdbf632753018c10.jpg
http://z3.ifrm.com/67/29/0/p394935/455746.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/10/16/article-0-18C0A6B500000578-464_964x681.jpg
Yes, there was blondism among them, but just like in North African populations today, it was a minority. Most were dark haired dark complected Mediterranean North Africans. And yes, the majority of Canarians look like the Berid type of the southernmost reaches of Southern Europe, but of course there are some that look more exotic.

[Isleño]

Young canarians.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p202/Apollo3000/MisprimosLoshijosdePino.jpg
I live among Canarians, most don't look like that. There are some that do, but most look like these guys:

http://www.triangulodigital.es/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/RP_Ochosilabas1-300x199.jpg

[Isleño]

Young canarians.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p202/Apollo3000/MisprimosLoshijosdePino.jpgThese are not how most Canarians look. If you see the study, 50% have only minor NA admixture and would look closer to Iberians. These types are ones with heavy Berber ancestry in which 20% of the population is like this. 80% of the population is not like this.

[Isleño]

Take a look at this video you can get a good idea of how a crowd of Canarians look.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCNwFBia3vk

[Axios]

¿Que porcentaje de Canarios tienen ADN Guanche?

[Lábaru]

People from Canary Islands has more to do with Spain than with North Africa.
http://canariasactual.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/gente6.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tt6qfIwChZk/TnU11cVAPcI/AAAAAAAAAcE/cmLj4cXH8l0/s1600/familia+de+mellizos+por+partida+doble.JPG
http://clearharmony.net/a_images/2005/03/2005-03-24-sp050324hf03.gif
http://www.costanoroeste.com/tl_files/images/surf/300x200/surf_group_teachers_famara.jpg
https://www.google.es/search?q=gente+de+islas+canarias&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=w2XeU-STBu7G7AaE4IDoCw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=992&bih=486

[pinguino]

Amerindians are not related with Siberian Turks. They've been so genetically isolated from Asians that they are their different race. I've always treated Amerindians as different to Asians as Middle easterners are different to Europeans . Also Amerindians have a lot of primitive traits that weren't evolved like Mongoloids in Asia ( Except for Ainu and Taiwan aborigines ).

BS. Genetic studies have already proven the link with Siberian natives. Period.

[B01AB20]

BS. Genetic studies have already proven the link with Siberian natives. Period.

:p

But pinguino... you said genetics are bullshit when they prove there's no relation between iberians and moors or jews, but now you said 'Genetic studies have already proven... Period.' as if it was some infallible truth.

Well you have no credibility, only tons and tons of resentful bias, we all know that... but man you could have a little more sense of shame and be aware of what you write here and there.

But don't worry too much, we know who you are and we love you my funny pichunche follacabras.

[Axios]

:p

But pinguino... you said genetics are bullshit when they prove there's no relation between iberians and moors or jews, but now you said 'Genetic studies have already proven... Period.' as if it was some infallible truth.

Well you have no credibility, only tons and tons of resentful bias, we all know that... but man you could have a little more sense of shame and be aware of what you write here and there.

But don't worry too much, we know who you are and we love you my funny pichunche follacabras.


deja de insultarle.

[pinguino]

:p

But pinguino... you said genetics are bullshit when they prove there's no relation between iberians and moors or jews, but now you said 'Genetic studies have already proven... Period.' as if it was some infallible truth.

I would make a difference between commercial genetics sold to idiots that want to verify they are R1B1, and if so they believe they are pure uber europeans, or whatever (a lot of money goes, actually), and the work of pseudo scientists that try to show everyone is Negro, from the work of serious scientists that are studying the settlement of man in the Americas. The later measure the genetic distances among populations (not just markers counting) and that is the source of the proof that show Amerindians are related to Siberians. Also, language studies, archeological discoveries and other evidences point all to the same direction. Native Americans are a group that descend from people of Central Asia, related to modern Siberians.

[pinguino]

deja de insultarle.

No te preocupes, Axios. Es un imbecil que probablemente tiene muy poca educación. Cree que diciendo "follacabras" me va a ofender. Uno se ofende sólamente cuando consideramos que quien nos ataca está a nuestra altura. Nadie se ofendería porque nos gruñe un macaco como ese.

[B01AB20]

No te preocupes, Axios. Es un imbecil que probablemente tiene muy poca educación. Cree que diciendo "follacabras" me va a ofender. Uno se ofende sólamente cuando consideramos que quien nos ataca está a nuestra altura. Nadie se ofendería porque nos gruñe un macaco como ese.

;)

[B01AB20]

pinguinillo!!!

are you aware that you thumbed me down a post taht ONLY has a ;) in it?

and basically this ;) means the same you wrote in the post I quoted you!

so I'd say you're thumbing yourself down.

man you're a shame for the pichunches and for the cabras too.

[Axios]

pinguinillo!!!

are you aware that you thumbed me down a post taht ONLY has a ;) in it?

and basically this ;) means the same you wrote in the post I quoted you!

so I'd say you're thumbing yourself down.

man you're a shame for the pichunches and for the cabras too.

And you are a shame for real Spaniards

[Cristiano viejo]

man you're a shame for the pichunches
Not for the Pichuncges, they were weak people and easy to domesticate, he is typical Pichunge.


and for the cabras too.

Yes for cabras;) animals deserve my respect, Pichunhes not.

[B01AB20]

Not for the Pichuncges, they were weak people and easy to domesticate, he is typical Pichunge.



Yes for cabras;) animals deserve my respect, Pichunhes not.

;)

[chestbrah]

With the exception of the Amerindian and ssa my results are typical canarian.

[Isleño]

With the exception of the Amerindian and ssa my results are typical canarian.

Then this study pertains to you as well. Have you taken a DNA test?

[chestbrah]

Then this study pertains to you as well. Have you taken a DNA test?

Yes I have done 23andme as well as McDonald. I am roughly 70 percent spanish,10 percent North African, 10 percent SSA, and 10 percent Amerindian

[Isleño]

The Guanche DNA fluctuates in Canarians. In most of the population, it's minor admixture usually ranging from 10-20%. In about 10% of the population it's half and another 10% are predominantly Berber. Just under a third of the population has either none or a percent or two as comparable to the Iberian peninsula. About 2/3 of the population has Guanche admixture, but at the same time 3/4 of the population is predominantly European. Canarians are a varied group and most are predominantly European with minor North African admixture like myself.

[Isleño]

Yes I have done 23andme as well as McDonald. I am roughly 70 percent spanish,10 percent North African, 10 percent SSA, and 10 percent Amerindian
Interesting. Your North African is the same as mine, 10%. You are almost as much European as me too, but I'm 90%. So it seems you are probably mostly Canarian with some SSA and Amerind admixture. So this study definitely pertains to you as well. Do you know which island(s) your family came from? And where is it your people are from in the new world?

[chestbrah]

Interesting. Your North African is the same as mine, 10%. You are almost as much European as me too, but I'm 90%. So it seems you are probably mostly Canarian with some SSA and Amerind admixture. So this study definitely pertains to you as well. Do you know which island(s) your family came from? And where is it your people are from in the new world?

I have never traced it to a specific area in the Canary Islands but many came from Tenerife and la gomera but they settled in around the early 1900s in Lares, Puerto Rico where they were "jibaros" in other words Puerto Rican hillbillys.

[Isleño]

I have never traced it to a specific area in the Canary Islands but many came from Tenerife and la gomera but they settled in around the early 1900s in Lares, Puerto Rico where they were "jibaros" in other words Puerto Rican hillbillys.
Yes, I'm familiar with the large Canarian settlement in the northwestern part of Puerto Rico, mainly Hatillo, Utuado, Lares, Arecibo, etc. I actually matched with some Puerto Ricans there of Canarian ancestry and have spoken to them on the internet. Seems some branch of my family went to both Puerto Rico and Cuba long, long ago and multiplied. In Latin America (mainly Cuba, Puerto Rico, Venezuela, Dominican Republic and Uruguay) and the U.S. states of Louisiana, Texas and Florida, Canarians go by our nickname "Isleños". This was to distinguish us from Iberians who were "Peninsulares" or "Gallegos". But even this nickname for us is still used in the Canary Islands itself.

But if you are 70% European and 10% North African and your family history and location is centered around Canarian settlement in Puerto Rico, you are mainly Isleño. You are one of our brothers.

[Isleño]

I have never traced it to a specific area in the Canary Islands but many came from Tenerife and la gomera but they settled in around the early 1900s in Lares, Puerto Rico where they were "jibaros" in other words Puerto Rican hillbillys.
I also have ancestry from Tenerife, La Gomera and also Gran Canaria. Most of my ancestry is from Tenerife and Gran Canaria though.

[chestbrah]

Yes, I'm familiar with the large Canarian settlement in the northwestern part of Puerto Rico, mainly Hatillo, Utuado, Lares, Arecibo, etc. I actually matched with some Puerto Ricans there of Canarian ancestry and have spoken to them on the internet. Seems some branch of my family went to both Puerto Rico and Cuba long, long ago and multiplied. In Latin America (mainly Cuba, Puerto Rico, Venezuela, Dominican Republic and Uruguay) and the U.S. states of Louisiana, Texas and Florida, Canarians go by our nickname "Isleños". This was to distinguish us from Iberians who were "Peninsulares" or "Gallegos". But even this nickname for us is still used in the Canary Islands itself.

But if you are 70% European and 10% North African and your family history and location is centered around Canarian settlement in Puerto Rico, you are mainly Isleño. You are one of our brothers.

I do consider islenos to be my brothers as well :)

[Isleño]

I do consider islenos to be my brothers as well :)Saludos con un fuerte abrazo :thumb001:

[ButlerKing]

BS. Genetic studies have already proven the link with Siberian natives. Period.

Even Ainu genetic link with Siberian natives but physically their as different as it could get it. Siberian Turks and Amerindians are too different to be considered the same. It's just a ancient genetic link. If we go back in time than even Arabs are related with Europeans.

[Isleño]

Even Ainu genetic link with Siberian natives but physically their as different as it could get it. Siberian Turks and Amerindians are too different to be considered the same. It's just a ancient genetic link. If we go back in time than even Arabs are related with Europeans.
If we can stay on topic, that would be wonderful.

[Anglojew]

I haven't read through the whole thread so apologies if this has been covered. Are the mainly North African Canarians more recent immigrants or just isolated populations?

[Isleño]

I haven't read through the whole thread so apologies if this has been covered. Are the mainly North African Canarians more recent immigrants or just isolated populations?That's a good question, but I assume they are old stock North African Guanche. If the samples taken were from local people, I would assume so. But I figured it out....only 10% of the population is predominantly Berber and another 10% are mestizo types (half Euro/half Berber), so that's 20% of the population. Then the remaining 80% of the population is predominantly European in which 50% have substantial "minor" admixture (10-20% admixture on average) and the rest is a mix of pure Euros and those with probably about 1-3% maybe up to 5% admixture like you see in Iberia.

So the population is pretty varied. I think it's more like Latin America in this aspect than Europe. But it makes sense, because the Canary Islands was a colony, actually the first colony of the Spanish empire. So the pattern that happened in Latin America, happened in the Canary Islands as well. Except in the Canaries, European is bigger than what you usually find in Latin America on average. If I had to compare the Canaries with a Latin America country, probably Argentina or Uruguay would be the closest probably. But then even those countries have more "fully Euro" types than the Canaries which most of the population is predominantly European with a significant "minor" North African admixture average. It would almost be like if a part of Latin America instead of getting independence, would have become part of the country of Spain. That's the Canary Islands. But most of the Canaries is like me, predominantly European with minor North African admixture.

[Isleño]

I haven't read through the whole thread so apologies if this has been covered. Are the mainly North African Canarians more recent immigrants or just isolated populations?
Oh, most of the predominantly North African Canarians live on the island of La Gomera, so I'd say most of them are fairly isolated to that island. The predominantly European with minor admix types represent the rest of the islands better and the fully Euro or near full Euro ones are sprinkled throughout. But don't get me wrong, La Gomera has the other types too, it's not just a bastion of predominantly Guanche types and mestizo types.

[Cristiano viejo]

I haven't read through the whole thread so apologies if this has been covered. Are the mainly North African Canarians more recent immigrants or just isolated populations?

Guanche stock, OF COURSE. Zero doubts about this.

[Tooting Carmen]

Interesting study.

[Anglojew]

Guanche stock, OF COURSE. Zero doubts about this.

So there are some pure Guanches left? Interesting

Do they represent a pure Berber type without SSA admixture?

Do you have any examples individuals of this type?

[Isleño]

So there are some pure Guanches left? Interesting

Do they represent a pure Berber type without SSA admixture?

Do you have any examples individuals of this type?
Yes there are a few near pure ones left. 10% of the population of the Canary Islands is predominantly Berber I'd say ranging from 60-95%. In this study from the OP, one sample was 95.7% Guanche Berber. So that's a sharp contrast from others in the sample that were 0% Guanche. But of course both of those groups are minorities and most Canarians are as previously believed to be, predominantly European with minor North African ancestry. And from what it looks like, most of that 10% is on the island of La Gomera. This is why I say the Canary Islands is more like Latin America where there is a predominant majority and a couple small minorities of different types. But now even Europe has places like the Canary Islands or Latin America and significant minority groups. France is on it's way to having 10% Berbers.

Other parts of Europe has millions of non-Europeans, so Europe is becoming like this also. But unrelated to the immigrant population, the Iberian sample in the study in the OP showed Iberia having 5% of it's non-immigrant local people as half to predominantly North African (probably convert families from the reconquista). But the Canary Islands was a Spanish colony originally (the very first and very last colony) and became part of the country of Spain afterward instead of getting independence like Latin America. So it's only natural that because CI was a colony, it would have demographics like a colony having a majority group and a couple minority groups. But from what I'm seeing in Europe, many European countries are on the way to having the same demographic patterns as the Canary Islands and Latin America.

[Isleño]

So there are some pure Guanches left? Interesting

Do they represent a pure Berber type without SSA admixture?

Do you have any examples individuals of this type?I am 0.5% SSA and I'm 10% Guanche. So I'd imagine someone that would be predominantly Guanche would probably have about 3-4% SSA like found among Riffian Berbers. If I had to try and pick out someone to show you from the Canary Islands that is probably predominantly Guanche, it would be Jose Velez:

http://people1971.com/images1/jose-velez-3.jpg

[Isleño]

Interesting study.
Yes it is. Were you surprised? what did you originally think about Canarians?

[Isleño]

Guanche stock, OF COURSE. Zero doubts about this.
Yes, you're right. Not too many Moors settled Canarias although a few did. But the vast majority of North African DNA found in the Canary Islands is Guanche. But I don't want people to just assume we are just a population of Berbers, because we are not. Predominantly Berber types only make up 10% of the population and mestizo types (or muladi if you prefer to call them that) make up another 10%. The other 80% of Canarians are predominantly European, with some being fully or near full.

[pinguino]

Even Ainu genetic link with Siberian natives but physically their as different as it could get it. Siberian Turks and Amerindians are too different to be considered the same. It's just a ancient genetic link. If we go back in time than even Arabs are related with Europeans.

Why do you see such differences? Uncontacted natives from the Amazon usually resemble Central Asians like mongols and Siberians. And you should known many American Indians of today are not pure Asiatic, given they have already mixed with Europeans and also Africans.

[Isleño]

Why do you see such differences? Uncontacted natives from the Amazon usually resemble Central Asians like mongols and Siberians. And you should known many American Indians of today are not pure Asiatic, given they have already mixed with Europeans and also Africans.Pinguino, I ask that you stay on topic. The thread is about Canarian genetics. Both Iberia and North Africa are relevant.

Thank you.

[ButlerKing]

Pinguino, I ask that you stay on topic. The thread is about Canarian genetics. Both Iberia and North Africa are relevant.

Thank you.

Sorry. I'll be on topic.

Most Canarians in my opinion look European at all. However is almost 1/3 or 2/5 of Canarians don't


http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p202/Apollo3000/Lospibesenlaromeria.jpg
http://estaticos04.cache.el-mundo.net/elmundo/imagenes/2009/08/01/1249116722_0.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p202/Apollo3000/RubenCurbelo_04.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Pinguino, I ask that you stay on topic. The thread is about Canarian genetics. Both Iberia and North Africa are relevant.

Thank you.


It seems that all Canarians have some degrees to high degree of Northwest African influence



Average NW African ancestry

La Gomera 42.50 %

Fuerteventura 21.60 %

La Palma 21.00 %

El Hierro 19.80 %

Lanzarote 16.40 %

Tenerife 14.30 %

Gran Canaria 12.40 %

Total Canary Islanders 17.40 %

Also I'm not sure if they include the fact even Spanish have minority influence of north african and west Asian which contributes to their non-european appearance although most do look European ( but between 1/3 to 1/2 don't )

[Tooting Carmen]

I always knew Canarians were basically Iberian with a substantial North African (Guanche) component. This just confirms it in a more scientific manner.

[Isleño]

It seems that all Canarians have some degrees to high degree of Northwest African influence



Average NW African ancestry

La Gomera 42.50 %

Fuerteventura 21.60 %

La Palma 21.00 %

El Hierro 19.80 %

Lanzarote 16.40 %

Tenerife 14.30 %

Gran Canaria 12.40 %

Total Canary Islanders 17.40 %

Also I'm not sure if they include the fact even Spanish have minority influence of north african and west Asian which contributes to their non-european appearance although most do look European ( but between 1/3 to 1/2 don't )
These percentages are based on the study in the OP. The are only averages per island. Meaning they take all of the Canarians from that island, including those that are predominantly European with minor NA admixture, pure Euro Canarians, mestizo type Canarians (half Euro/half Guanche and predominantly Guanche Canarians and add all of them up and come up with an average. That doesn't mean most Canarians are 17.40% NA. There are Canarians that have no Guanche ancestry. There are also Canarians that have more than those averages. It's just most Canarians are like the averages because Canarians that are predominantly European with minor North African admixture are the majority. There is also an Iberian sample in the OP and 5% of the sample are Iberians that are at least half to predominantly North African (probably convert families from the reconquista). The other 95% are either pure Euro or has a few percent NA.

[Isleño]

I always knew Canarians were basically Iberian with a substantial North African (Guanche) component. This just confirms it in a more scientific manner.
This is the majority of us yes, but there are some Canarians that are pure Euro or just has 1-3 percent like in Iberia and some are predominantly Guanche Berber. But again, these are small minority groups and most Canarians are like myself, predominantly European with minor North African admixture.

[Isleño]

Sorry. I'll be on topic.

Most Canarians in my opinion look European at all. However is almost 1/3 or 2/5 of Canarians don't


http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p202/Apollo3000/Lospibesenlaromeria.jpg
http://estaticos04.cache.el-mundo.net/elmundo/imagenes/2009/08/01/1249116722_0.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p202/Apollo3000/RubenCurbelo_04.jpg
We are varied group with most of us being predominantly European with minor North African admixture.

[Insuperable]

We are varied group with most of us being predominantly European with minor North African admixture.

Would you think of all Canarians as being Spanish?

[Isleño]

Would you think of all Canarians as being Spanish?Yes I do. The Canary Islands is part of Spain. When you look on a map, it says "Canary Islands, Spain".

[Insuperable]

Yes I do. The Canary Islands is part of Spain. When you look on a map, it says "Canary Islands, Spain".

Well going by nationality that is what they are. Not quite my question.

[Empecinado]

http://estaticos04.cache.el-mundo.net/elmundo/imagenes/2009/08/01/1249116722_0.jpg


WTF xD They are Basque terrorists from ETA, not Canarians!

[Isleño]

Well going by nationality that is what they are. Not quite my question.

Well you mean genetically? Well I'd consider 80% of the population as Iberian (just with a little admixture). I'd consider the other 20% differently. 10% are mestizo half/half types (or if you prefer to call them muladi) and 10% are predominantly Guanche. There was some small non-Iberian immigration from places like France and Italy, but the vast majority of European DNA in the Canaries is Iberian.

[Insuperable]

Well you mean genetically? Well I'd consider 80% of the population as Iberian (just with a little admixture). I'd consider the other 20% differently. 10% are mestizo half/half types (or if you prefer to call them muladi) and 10% are predominantly Guanche. There was some small non-Iberian immigration from places like France and Italy, but the vast majority of European DNA in the Canaries is Iberian.

I didn't mean genetically either. I meant ethnically. They are all Spanish by nationality, but would you view all Canarians as ethnic Spaniards? I don't know, maybe it is a silly question. Maybe you do consider them, maybe not all.

[Isleño]

WTF xD They are Basque terrorists from ETA, not Canarians!

Most Canarians look like this type:

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p202/Apollo3000/yeray20tenderete2.jpg

[Isleño]

I didn't mean genetically either. I meant ethnically. They are all Spanish by nationality, but would you view all Canarians as ethnic Spaniards? I don't know, maybe it is a silly question. Maybe you do consider them, maybe not all.
I'd say ethnically Canarian, but nationally Spanish. But Spanish could be used as an ethnicity also. But most Canarians have a feel of a local culture that is purely Canarian.

[Empecinado]

I didn't mean genetically either. I meant ethnically. They are all Spanish by nationality, but would you view all Canarians as ethnic Spaniards? I don't know, maybe it is a silly question. Maybe you do consider them, maybe not.

Canarians are just like other Spaniards, with some cultural particularities because they live in islands, their climate and historical ties with the Spanish Caribbean.
People are tougher (even the most posh there at some point in his life has been involved in a street fight), more superstitious and due climate have customs that are considered out of place here, like walking shirtless in the street (only men, unfortunately).

For example a Canarian that became very famous in Spain thanks to youtube, known as El Batu. In mainland Spain he was considered to be a scary character, almost like a junkie or a criminal gang member judging by his disturbing appearance, but in the Canaries he was a normal guy from working-class neighborhood. And actually he was so, a perfectly normal guy and good person who spent his spare time talking to friends on the street without disturbing anyone (not kidding).

http://comunidad.laprovincia.es/servicios/galeriasMultimedia/media/11696/imagenes/1267229895094_batu_3.JPG

[Isleño]

Canarians are just like other Spaniards, with some cultural particularities because they live in islands, their climate and historical ties with the Spanish Caribbean.
People are tougher (even the most posh there at some point in his life has been involved in a street fight), more superstitious and due climate have customs that are considered out of place here, like walking shirtless in the street (only men, unfortunately).

For example a Canarian that became very famous in Spain thanks to youtube, known as El Batu. In mainland Spain he was considered to be a scary character, almost like a junkie or a criminal gang member judging by his disturbing appearance, but in the Canaries he was a normal guy from working-class neighborhood. And actually he was so, a perfectly normal guy and good person who spent his spare time talking to friends on the street without disturbing anyone (not kidding).

http://comunidad.laprovincia.es/servicios/galeriasMultimedia/media/11696/imagenes/1267229895094_batu_3.JPG
Haha, even to some Canarians he's a scary guy! By the way, I think he's one of the 20% that are largely Guanche. You can look at him and see that.

[Cristiano viejo]

I didn't mean genetically either. I meant ethnically. They are all Spanish by nationality, but would you view all Canarians as ethnic Spaniards? I don't know, maybe it is a silly question. Maybe you do consider them, maybe not all.

Canarians call "Godos" (Goths) to the Spanish population in a despective way...

[Alessio]

I knew a guy who was 1/4 Dutch, 1/4 Italian and 1/2 Canarian and he grew up in Tenerife and looked mostly Dutch. He said that druguse/abuse was very common and many people used steroids. Around the nightlife there were a lot of fights and he sometimes got into fights with other Canarians because they thought he was a tourist due to his Northern Euro look :laugh2: He went to The Netherlands to live here because of his ''wild'' life there which went out of hand after using too much psychedelic drugs and didn't knew what he did or where he was the whole night. The end story was that he slammed his hand trough a window what caused him to almost bleed to death! Good idea using psychedelic drugs and walking outside in Tenerife :picard2:

Btw this guy looks like a criminal who spent most of his time in jail :lmao, but I have seen real criminals who look very decent, so looks can be deceiving sometimes I guess. ;)


Canarians are just like other Spaniards, with some cultural particularities because they live in islands, their climate and historical ties with the Spanish Caribbean.
People are tougher (even the most posh there at some point in his life has been involved in a street fight), more superstitious and due climate have customs that are considered out of place here, like walking shirtless in the street (only men, unfortunately).

For example a Canarian that became very famous in Spain thanks to youtube, known as El Batu. In mainland Spain he was considered to be a scary character, almost like a junkie or a criminal gang member judging by his disturbing appearance, but in the Canaries he was a normal guy from working-class neighborhood. And actually he was so, a perfectly normal guy and good person who spent his spare time talking to friends on the street without disturbing anyone (not kidding).

http://comunidad.laprovincia.es/servicios/galeriasMultimedia/media/11696/imagenes/1267229895094_batu_3.JPG

[B01AB20]

I knew a guy who was 1/4 Dutch, 1/4 Italian and 1/2 Canarian and he grew up in Tenerife and looked mostly Dutch. He said that druguse/abuse was very common and many people used steroids. Around the nightlife there were a lot of fights and he sometimes got into fights with other Canarians because they thought he was a tourist due to his Northern Euro look :laugh2: He went to The Netherlands to live here because of his ''wild'' life there which went out of hand after using too much psychedelic drugs and didn't knew what he did or where he was the whole night. The end story was that he slammed his hand trough a window what caused him to almost bleed to death! Good idea using psychedelic drugs and walking outside in Tenerife :picard2:

Btw this guy looks like a criminal who spent most of his time in jail :lmao, but I have seen real criminals who look very decent, so looks can be deceiving sometimes I guess. ;)

yeah these drugs are very dangerous and toxic for the brain, young people end up like idiots after a while.
the hashish or marihuana is like medicinal in comparision.

But not all canary islands are like tenerife, la gomera or el hierro are easy places, or they were at least.

[Empecinado]

I knew a guy who was 1/4 Dutch, 1/4 Italian and 1/2 Canarian and he grew up in Tenerife and looked mostly Dutch. He said that druguse/abuse was very common and many people used steroids.

Yes, steroids are very very common there.


Around the nightlife there were a lot of fights and he sometimes got into fights with other Canarians because they thought he was a tourist due to his Northern Euro look :laugh2: He went to The Netherlands to live here because of his ''wild'' life there which went out of hand after using too much psychedelic drugs and didn't knew what he did or where he was the whole night. The end story was that he slammed his hand trough a window what caused him to almost bleed to death! Good idea using psychedelic drugs and walking outside in Tenerife :picard2:

Btw this guy looks like a criminal who spent most of his time in jail :lmao, but I have seen real criminals who look very decent, so looks can be deceiving sometimes I guess. ;)

Not a good idea, really xD

This Canarian looks a lot like this Cuban actor who appeared in Scarface and Breaking Bad:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/s720x720/999568_10151795303637904_883838763_n.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HHjufYSB83I/Tyk_0vqG6vI/AAAAAAAAOQY/jUlmWc5vm5o/s1600/1134-16663.gif

And this other one is like Cristiano Ronaldo full of steroids :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4S_QFiGW1w

[Cristiano viejo]

So there are some pure Guanches left? Interesting

Do you have any examples individuals of this type?
There is no such thing as pure Guanches nowadays.
According the English hispanist Hugh Thomas, there were around 21.500 Guanches in the Canary Islands during the Spanish conquest: 6.000 in Gran Canaria, 14.000 in Tenerife and 1.500 in the rest of the islands.
Many of them were dead due to diseases in the contact with Europeans, many more due to the war, and a few more were sold as slaves in Andalusia.

Those Guanches that remained were mixed with the Spanish (and other Europeans such as French, Italians etc) colonizers. For this reason many Canarians have that peculiar phenotype. Those Canarians that look full European is because the "recent" emigration.

A lot of Canarians want the independence of Spain (I support it), they claim their own culture and even they call us in despective way "Godos" (Goths), what it´s a bit nonsense taking account that they are descendants of peninsular Iberians, but yeah, that should means something imo

Colón said, textually, "the Guanches are not nor light nor dark colour", and in the registers of the slave market they are called both "light-skinned" and "dark-skinned".
According to the French conquerors, the Guanches "were tall and formidable."


Do they represent a pure Berber type without SSA admixture?

As I say, pure Guanches dont exist already, but in its days they had not SSA mixture, they were a true isolated Berber people arrived from Africa. There are several theories about their arrive, since they were displaced by a Phoenician culture, or that they just arrived in the Canary Islands sailing (which would be a contradiction, because the arrival of the Spanish, Guanches did not know the navigation, and even the different islands had no contact themselves), or that they were brought to the Canary Islands as slaves.

According a Canarian friend of mine (who is red hair and he is living in England), Canarias received some centuries ago a lot of New World immigration, I dont know until what point thats true.

[Anglojew]

There is no such thing as pure Guanches nowadays.
According the English hispanist Hugh Thomas, there were around 21.500 Guanches in the Canary Islands during the Spanish conquest: 6.000 in Gran Canaria, 14.000 in Tenerife and 1.500 in the rest of the islands.
Many of them were dead due to diseases in the contact with Europeans, many more due to the war, and a few more were sold as slaves in Andalusia.

Those Guanches that remained were mixed with the Spanish (and other Europeans such as French, Italians etc) colonizers. For this reason many Canarians have that peculiar phenotype. Those Canarians that look full European is because the "recent" emigration.

A lot of Canarians want the independence of Spain (I support it), they claim their own culture and even they call us in despective way "Godos" (Goths), what it´s a bit nonsense taking account that they are descendants of peninsular Iberians, but yeah, that should means something imo

Colón said, textually, "the Guanches are not nor light nor dark colour", and in the registers of the slave market they are called both "light-skinned" and "dark-skinned".
According to the French conquerors, the Guanches "were tall and formidable."



As I say, pure Guanches dont exist already, but in its days they had not SSA mixture, they were a true isolated Berber people arrived from Africa. There are several theories about their arrive, since they were displaced by a Phoenician culture, or that they just arrived in the Canary Islands sailing (which would be a contradiction, because the arrival of the Spanish, Guanches did not know the navigation, and even the different islands had no contact themselves), or that they were brought to the Canary Islands as slaves.

According a Canarian friend of mine (who is red hair and he is living in England), Canarias received some centuries ago a lot of New World immigration, I dont know until what point thats true.

Isleno says the people with 100% North African genetics are Guanches. I was surprised by this claim too.

When you say New World immigration do you mean Spaniards returning or stopping at the Islands or do you mean mixed-peoples?

[Isleño]

Canarians call "Godos" (Goths) to the Spanish population in a despective way...

We only call peninsulares "godos" that act disrespectful and rude to us and think they are better than us. We don't refer to respectful peninsulares as "godos". Also, Canarians are part of the Spanish population, the Canary Islands is an autonomous region of Spain....I'm sure you meant the population of the peninsula.

[pinguino]

We only call peninsulares "godos" that act disrespectful and rude to us and think they are better than us. We don't refer to respectful peninsulares as "godos". Also, Canarians are part of the Spanish population, the Canary Islands is an autonomous region of Spain....I'm sure you meant the population of the peninsula.

Ha ha ha!!! Godos is a retarded way to say "fat-people" in Spanish :)

[Isleño]

There is no such thing as pure Guanches nowadays.
According the English hispanist Hugh Thomas, there were around 21.500 Guanches in the Canary Islands during the Spanish conquest: 6.000 in Gran Canaria, 14.000 in Tenerife and 1.500 in the rest of the islands.
Many of them were dead due to diseases in the contact with Europeans, many more due to the war, and a few more were sold as slaves in Andalusia.

Those Guanches that remained were mixed with the Spanish (and other Europeans such as French, Italians etc) colonizers. For this reason many Canarians have that peculiar phenotype. Those Canarians that look full European is because the "recent" emigration.

A lot of Canarians want the independence of Spain (I support it), they claim their own culture and even they call us in despective way "Godos" (Goths), what it´s a bit nonsense taking account that they are descendants of peninsular Iberians, but yeah, that should means something imo

Colón said, textually, "the Guanches are not nor light nor dark colour", and in the registers of the slave market they are called both "light-skinned" and "dark-skinned".
According to the French conquerors, the Guanches "were tall and formidable."



As I say, pure Guanches dont exist already, but in its days they had not SSA mixture, they were a true isolated Berber people arrived from Africa. There are several theories about their arrive, since they were displaced by a Phoenician culture, or that they just arrived in the Canary Islands sailing (which would be a contradiction, because the arrival of the Spanish, Guanches did not know the navigation, and even the different islands had no contact themselves), or that they were brought to the Canary Islands as slaves.

According a Canarian friend of mine (who is red hair and he is living in England), Canarias received some centuries ago a lot of New World immigration, I dont know until what point thats true.

There are no pure ones left no, but there are some near pure ones. In the study, the person that had the most was 96% North African. That's pretty much a Guanche to me, I don't know about you. It's mentioned in the study:

"We have illustrated that a few dozen EuroAIMs ascertained to distinguish the NNW-SSE axis of genetic differentiation in Europe could also be utilized to distinguish Northwest Africans from European populations. Their use allowed us to accurately distinguish that Northwest African influences were minor in populations from the Iberian Peninsula, while these were substantially greater in Canary Islanders, ranging from as low as 0% to as high as 96% among individuals. We finally demonstrated that these African influences might constitute a potential source of population stratification in population-based association studies conducted in Spanish populations, and that this effect was appropriately controlled using a reduced number of EuroAIMs."

Also, Iberians are not free of North African ancestry. There are small amounts of it in Iberia:

"It was not unexpected to find a low level of bidirectional gene flow (5%) between Northwest Africans and Iberians given the results from previous studies [22], [23]. However, while the North African influence in Iberian populations has been estimated in 8–10% based on markers with uniparental inheritance [6], [12], [13], we found slightly lower levels using autosomal markers, ranging from as low as 2.1% (SD = 4.6) in Eastern Iberians to as much as 9.0% (SD = 23.8) in Western Iberian samples, although these differences did not reach statistical significance (two-tailed t-test p = 0.156). Strikingly, a parallel geographical clustering of the Northwest African influence in Iberian populations was recently revealed with Y-chromosome binary markers [12]. Given that in this study, Iberians were represented by a small number of samples from different mainland localities, it remains interesting to explore if such geographical patterning of the Northwest African influence is confirmed in reasonably-sized population samples from different localities."

Look at this graph, each green line on the Iberian and the Canarian sample is individual autosomal results for North African, the blue is European. Although most Canarians are predominantly European with a minor North African admixture, there are still a few that are at least half or even higher and the highest recorded in the study was 96% North African.

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0018389.g003&representation=PNG_L

Of course these types only make up 20% of the total sample in the study (10% are mestizo types, 10% are predominantly North African). So how can there be no Guanches left if there are 10% of the population that are scoring in the 80's and 90's for North African? They may not be full, but are near full. In contrast, look at there are many that have no green and are full European. Of course this probably came within the last two centuries, but still there are Canarians that are the same as Europeans. And then if you look at most of the individual samples are predominantly European with minor North African admixture like most believe.

And true, there is barely any SSA in the Canary Islands. Mine is almost non-existant and even in the study it mentions this:

"The substantial Northwest African ancestry found for Canary Islanders supports that, despite the aggressive conquest by the Spanish in the XV century and the subsequent immigration, genetic footprints of the first settlers of the Canary Islands persist in the current inhabitants. Paralleling mtDNA findings [16], the largest average Northwest African contribution was found for the samples from La Gomera. Remarkably, the sub-Saharan African influence was unnoticeably in this study, despite our results support that the EuroAIMs set contains enough information to distinguish sub-Saharan Africans from the other populations analyzed. This result contrasts with the previous evidences provided by mtDNA [16] and Y-chromosome [18], and the documented early introduction of sub-Saharan Africans after the conquest as a result of slave trade [17]. However, given the differences in inheritance among these loci, and the complex history of Canary Islanders [17], it is not surprising to reach different but complementary conclusions examining different loci [17], [21]. On this basis, we found little support for a sub-Saharan African influence on Canary Islanders other than the introduced through the first settlers, given that genetic studies in aboriginal remains demonstrate the existence of a Saharan substrate [21] and that modern Western Saharan populations show substantial sub-Saharan African influences [22], [23]."

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0018389

[Isleño]

Ha ha ha!!! Godos is a retarded way to say "fat-people" in Spanish :)No, it's not "gordos", but "godos" as in goths like Visigoths. This name was given to the nobles that came to the Canary Islands in colonial times, and were rude and disrespectful to the local population and thought they were better than them. They called them "godos" because of many of the nobles were very light complexion and descended from Visigoths or "goths". Hence the name "godo" for a rude, disrespectful person from the peninsula (mainland Spain). But then the name stuck for all people (even those not descended from Visigoths) as "godo".

[Isleño]

Isleno says the people with 100% North African genetics are Guanches. I was surprised by this claim too.

When you say New World immigration do you mean Spaniards returning or stopping at the Islands or do you mean mixed-peoples?

There was immigration to the Canaries from the Spanish speaking Caribbean area, but it was not foreigners, but returning Canarians. This was a long time ago, like 2 centuries ago. Of course now there are Latin Americans living in the Canaries like Cubans and Venezuelans, but much of this new immigration are Canarian descendants that were born in Latin America. But of course these populations are very small and are small minorities just like you would have in your country. There is almost no Native American found in the Canaries and SSA is almost non-existant as well.

As for pure Guanches, no there are none left. But there are some that are near full. 10% of the population sample in the study from the OP is predominantly North African. The highest recorded in the study is 96% North African and the lowest is 0%. But most Canarians are predominantly European with minor North African admixture like myself. But you can see the 96% Canarian individual sample spoken about in the study:

"We have illustrated that a few dozen EuroAIMs ascertained to distinguish the NNW-SSE axis of genetic differentiation in Europe could also be utilized to distinguish Northwest Africans from European populations. Their use allowed us to accurately distinguish that Northwest African influences were minor in populations from the Iberian Peninsula, while these were substantially greater in Canary Islanders, ranging from as low as 0% to as high as 96% among individuals. We finally demonstrated that these African influences might constitute a potential source of population stratification in population-based association studies conducted in Spanish populations, and that this effect was appropriately controlled using a reduced number of EuroAIMs."

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0018389

Also in this graph, each green line is North African and each blue line is European. Notice in the Canarian sample (both CAN and CBN) there are a couple that are predominantly North African (and surprisingly in the Iberian sample [IBN] there are a couple). But of course most are predominantly European with minor North African admixture:

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0018389.g003&representation=PNG_L

Look here how most Canarians are in between the Spanish and North Africans, some clustering at the border of North Africa (predominantly Guanche type Canarians) and those in between and those clustering with Spaniards and at the edge of the Spanish cluster:

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0018389.g002&representation=PNG_L

[Isleño]

According a Canarian friend of mine (who is red hair and he is living in England), Canarias received some centuries ago a lot of New World immigration, I dont know until what point thats true.
This is true, but it was returning Canarians that were in Latin America. There are stories and proof of this. Many Canarians that went to Latin America to work returned after having found more wealth in the New World. Most of them had settled the Caribbean area, but returned to Canarias with their new wealth. Native American DNA is almost non-existent in Canarias and so is SSA. The immigration from Latin America were returning Canarians. But also, this return immigration was significant, it was still small.

[Isleño]

Yes, steroids are very very common there.



Not a good idea, really xD

This Canarian looks a lot like this Cuban actor who appeared in Scarface and Breaking Bad:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/s720x720/999568_10151795303637904_883838763_n.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HHjufYSB83I/Tyk_0vqG6vI/AAAAAAAAOQY/jUlmWc5vm5o/s1600/1134-16663.gif

And this other one is like Cristiano Ronaldo full of steroids :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4S_QFiGW1w

Yes, he does look similar to the actor. Also, I know a guy in my community with a similar face as the guy drinking in the video. Cool :)

[Isleño]

yeah these drugs are very dangerous and toxic for the brain, young people end up like idiots after a while.
the hashish or marihuana is like medicinal in comparision.

But not all canary islands are like tenerife, la gomera or el hierro are easy places, or they were at least.

Tenerife and Gran Canaria are tourist destinations and receive outside influences, so people bring in drugs and locals get a hold of them too. But of course there are already drugs there :)

La Gomera and El Hierro are not as tourist oriented and has a more rural feel. Many Magos there (Mago is a Canarian word for campesino or rural country person, or like Guajiro in Cuba or Jibaro in Puerto Rico).

[Cristiano viejo]

Isleno says the people with 100% North African genetics are Guanches. I was surprised by this claim too.
It´s impossible that there are pure Guanches nowadays, all of them mixed with conquers and colonizers centuries ago; if someone is 96% NA as Isleño claims, then imo he can not be Canarian but someone from recent immigration, with a very recent North African (from the continent I mean, iepast.

That there should be someone as well, almost pure Guanche, should have ancestors which only mixed with other Guanches for more than 500 years, something totally impossible in my view :picard1:


When you say New World immigration do you mean Spaniards returning or stopping at the Islands or do you mean mixed-peoples?
Mixed people, of course, Anglojew! we are talking about strange looks among Canarians, so what should the reason to talk about ethnic Spaniards? :blink: no, according my friend Canarias received some centuries ago some kind of Latin American immigration (mixed people).
Isleño talks about the return of ethnic Canarians and thats very possible too. Many ethnic Spaniards that emigrated to America returned to Spain being richer people. They were called "Indianos", because they arrived from the Indias. But according my friend among all this people (I guess), there were some mixed people too.
I have not check this, it´s only what he told me.

[Anglojew]

It´s impossible that there are pure Guanches nowadays, all of them mixed with conquers and colonizers centuries ago; if someone is 96% NA as Isleño claims, then imo he can not be Canarian but someone from recent immigration, with a very recent North African (from the continent I mean, iepast.

That there should be someone as well, almost pure Guanche, should have ancestors which only mixed with other Guanches for more than 500 years, something totally impossible in my view :picard1:


Mixed people, of course, Anglojew! we are talking about strange looks among Canarians, so what should the reason to talk about ethnic Spaniards? :blink: no, according my friend Canarias received some centuries ago some kind of Latin American immigration (mixed people).
Isleño talks about the return of ethnic Canarians and thats very possible too. Many ethnic Spaniards that emigrated to America returned to Spain being richer people. They were called "Indianos", because they arrived from the Indias. But according my friend among all this people (I guess), there were some mixed people too.
I have not check this, it´s only what he told me.

Thanks, I'm really interested in what the Guanches looked like. Are there any photos of Canarians who have the most Guanche genetics today?

[Isleño]

It´s impossible that there are pure Guanches nowadays, all of them mixed with conquers and colonizers centuries ago; if someone is 96% NA as Isleño claims, then imo he can not be Canarian but someone from recent immigration, with a very recent North African (from the continent I mean, iepast.

That there should be someone as well, almost pure Guanche, should have ancestors which only mixed with other Guanches for more than 500 years, something totally impossible in my view :picard1:

Cristiano, it's not according to me, but the study this is based on. Besides, I'm Canarian and I know of stories of baptized Guanches, not only from what my family has told me, but also Canarians living in Canarias. These baptized Guanches would have assimilated into society. You are putting much faith into these old records, but I believe they are talking about Guanches that remained so. It's in the Spanish records that many Guanches were baptized Christian and assimilated into Canarian society. Sure, most were sold off as slaves and killed, but some of them were baptized (especially women). Look at the study and count each little green line that looks almost fully green, there are a few. This is not recent Berber immigration, these are Canarians of predominantly Guanche ancestry. Of course they are a minority which looks to be only 10% of the entire sample, but they are still here for the most part. These old records you are quoting are at the mercy of modern DNA testing.



Mixed people, of course, Anglojew! we are talking about strange looks among Canarians, so what should the reason to talk about ethnic Spaniards? :blink: no, according my friend Canarias received some centuries ago some kind of Latin American immigration (mixed people).
Isleño talks about the return of ethnic Canarians and thats very possible too. Many ethnic Spaniards that emigrated to America returned to Spain being richer people. They were called "Indianos", because they arrived from the Indias. But according my friend among all this people (I guess), there were some mixed people too.
I have not check this, it´s only what he told me.

I know this story of the "Indianos" well. Most of them were Canarian-Cubans (returning Canarians from Cuba) that settled back in La Palma, hence the reason there is a large Cuban festival there called "Los Indianos" (but a few came from other Caribbean places). They were called "Indianos" because they returned from the Indies. It has nothing to do with being mixed. These people were largely Canarians returning from the Caribbean, especially Cuba. This is how some Cuban traditions have been melted into Canarian culture, like "punto Cubano" for example, which is an improvisational music form created by Canarians in Canarian communities in Cuba. Also mambo is big in Canarias and that also arrived with them. Other things like black beans and rice recipes from Cuba and arepa recipes from Venezuela with returning Canarians.

These returning immigrants centuries ago fused these Caribbean influences into Canarian culture and you can see these influences in modern Canarian culture. The returning Canarians from Cuba brought their Cuban born music that they created in Cuba that draws on both Canarian and Cuban music styles, called "punto Cubano" or known as "punto Guajiro" also. Also Canarians brought much of their culture to Cuba, and now in Cuban culture you can see the Canarian influences in food, music, tradition and way of life, also their Spanish accent. If you look at genetic studies on Canarians, both Native American and SSA is virtually non-existent. This is proof that it wasn't mixed Latin Americans immigrating to Canarias, but returning Canarians. My parents have told me this story and I've heard the same story from Canarians that I know in the islands. They always specify it was returning Canarians coming home to families with new wealth. You can see "Los Indianos" festival in La Palma, it's a Canarian-Cuban festival:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xT0_uowbPw

[Isleño]

Mixed people, of course, Anglojew! we are talking about strange looks among Canarians, so what should the reason to talk about ethnic Spaniards? :blink: no, according my friend Canarias received some centuries ago some kind of Latin American immigration (mixed people).
Isleño talks about the return of ethnic Canarians and thats very possible too. Many ethnic Spaniards that emigrated to America returned to Spain being richer people. They were called "Indianos", because they arrived from the Indias. But according my friend among all this people (I guess), there were some mixed people too.
I have not check this, it´s only what he told me.

" During the carnival event "Los Indianos" people go into the narrow main street of the old town. Note the clothes. The event has its roots in the return of Palmero emigrants from Cuba, hence the white tropcal hats, suits, dresses and slaves - the latter usually being portrayed by men dressed up and painted black."

http://www.islalapalma.com/en/events/carnival-lapalma.html?p=losindianos:carnival

The "Palmero emigrants returning from Cuba" were mainly Canarians originally from La Palma. I guess your friend didn't mention to you it was all returning Canarians, not Latin Americans. The same thing happened with Tenerife and Venezuelans. But of course, these returning emigrant populations were still fairly small.

[Isleño]

Thanks, I'm really interested in what the Guanches looked like. Are there any photos of Canarians who have the most Guanche genetics today?

These are believed to be predominantly Guanche Canarians:

http://people1971.com/images1/jose-velez-6.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p202/Apollo3000/RosanaArbelo.jpg

http://comunidad.laopinion.es/servicios/galeriasMultimedia/media/11696/imagenes/1267229895094_batu_14.JPG

They are alot different than these types of Canarians that are predominantly European:

http://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Celebrities+Attend+Larios+Fashion+Calendar+gJRPFFg gvBul.jpg

http://www.infonortedigital.com/portada/images/noticias/Artenara/yeray_y_mari_carmen.jpg

http://fotos01.laprovincia.es/fotos/noticias/318x200/2011-03-14_IMG_2011-03-14_00:09:36_domingo.jpg

[Isleño]

Thanks, I'm really interested in what the Guanches looked like. Are there any photos of Canarians who have the most Guanche genetics today?

Here are some predominantly European Canarians, you can see how they look similar to Iberians. Most Canarians are predominantly European with minor Guanche admixture. Some look like Iberians, some look like NA influenced Iberians. You can see the big difference from the predominantly Guanche ones, whom are a minority in the Canary Islands:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFynYhlkYUQ

[Anglojew]

These are believed to be predominantly Guanche Canarians:

http://people1971.com/images1/jose-velez-6.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p202/Apollo3000/RosanaArbelo.jpg

http://comunidad.laopinion.es/servicios/galeriasMultimedia/media/11696/imagenes/1267229895094_batu_14.JPG

They are alot different than these types of Canarians that are predominantly European:

http://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Celebrities+Attend+Larios+Fashion+Calendar+gJRPFFg gvBul.jpg

http://www.infonortedigital.com/portada/images/noticias/Artenara/yeray_y_mari_carmen.jpg

http://fotos01.laprovincia.es/fotos/noticias/318x200/2011-03-14_IMG_2011-03-14_00:09:36_domingo.jpg

They basically look like Berbers.

[Isleño]

They basically look like Berbers.

What the predominantly Guanche types? Lol, yes because Guanches were Berbers. I don't know why you would think they would look any different.

[Trait]

good to know

[Isleño]

good to know
Knowledge is power. I decided to post a genetic study on Canarians to help educate people about Canarians. Glad you could learn something here.

[Anglojew]

What the predominantly Guanche types? Lol, yes because Guanches were Berbers. I don't know why you would think they would look any different.

I thought I read old descriptions that they were blonde?

[Isleño]

I thought I read old descriptions that they were blonde?
Just like how it is among Berbers of North Africa. You can find a few blonds, but they still look North African in the face. But also among North African Berbers, most are not blond and are swarthy with dark hair. It's not like they were European looking. The Berber stock that is in the Canary Islands is more like Mozabites. Lots of those coastal Berbers in Algeria have admixtures from Europe (Spanish reconquista) and the Levant (old Phoenician settlements). Mozabites seem to be the "purest" type of Berber. Guanches were more like them, but more pure.

[Anglojew]

Just like how it is among Berbers of North Africa. You can find a few blonds, but they still look North African in the face. But also among North African Berbers, most are not blond and are swarthy with dark hair. It's not like they were European looking. The Berber stock that is in the Canary Islands is more like Mozabites. Lots of those coastal Berbers in Algeria have admixtures from Europe (Spanish reconquista) and the Levant (old Phoenician settlements). Mozabites seem to be the "purest" type of Berber. Guanches were more like them, but more pure.


Interesting. Thanks

[Smeagol]

I thought I read old descriptions that they were blonde?

According to Carleton Coon, the Afalou Cromagnid type was a more important element in Guanche skulls than it is in mainland North Africans. Probably blondism in North Africa (and thus Guanches) is associated with the Afalou type.

[Isleño]

Interesting. Thanks

You are quite welcome. Always a pleasure to spread knowledge.

[Isleño]

According to Carleton Coon, the Afalou Cromagnid type was a more important element in Guanche skulls than it is in mainland North Africans. Probably blondism in North Africa (and thus Guanches) is associated with the Afalou type.
I believe this to be true as well. I think Guanches are a mix of North African types. I believe they were probably a mix of proto-Berber Caspian types as well as Afalou types. But if you notice among Canarians of large Guanche ancestry, they are almost always brown looking with dark hair and eyes. Blond hair, just like in North Africa was a minority and is believe to have been mainly found among the Guanches of Tenerife and not as much on other islands. But it's believed that the Guanches were a people that came out of 2 different waves of Berbers from separate parts of North Africa. It's believe that they were probably brought by the Phoenicians as they were an island people and had no knowledge of seafaring which is unusual.

But I've seen the blond hair thing before in some Canarians, but the thing is we don't know if it's from Guanche ancestry or European ancestry. Take a look at this naturally blond Canarian kid:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb41iyMcJok

[Smeagol]

Yeah, probably the blondism was exaggerated in early reports of the Guanches. By the way, I don't think Mozabites are the purest Berbers, they seem to have some significant negro influences.

[Isleño]

Yeah, probably the blondism was exaggerated in early reports of the Guanches. By the way, I don't think Mozabites are the purest Berbers, they seem to have some significant negro influences.

They have small amounts of SSA, but no Berber is without some SSA admixture. But the thing that makes Mozabites "purer" North African than others, is that they have less admixtures from other elements in North Africa outside of SSA. Many people on here like to focus on the SSA in Berbers, they forget about European and Levantine DNA found in them, even some Bedouin to an extent. Mozabites are typically the reference population for DNA tests for North African. Why? Because they have the largest amount of North African DNA and less of the others. Take a look at the latest autosomal DNA study and look at Mozabite, then look at other North Africans like Algerians, Tunisians, Egyptian, Saharawi, etc.: (then notice the Canarian sample, it's like the majority found in the Canary Islands)

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Admixtures-Lazaridis.png

[Smeagol]

They have small amounts of SSA, but no Berber is without some SSA admixture. But the thing that makes Mozabites "purer" North African than others, is that they have less admixtures from other elements in North Africa outside of SSA. Many people on here like to focus on the SSA in Berbers, they forget about European and Levantine DNA found in them, even some Bedouin to an extent. Mozabites are typically the reference population for DNA tests for North African. Why? Because they have the largest amount of North African DNA and less of the others. Take a look at the latest autosomal DNA study and look at Mozabite, then look at other North Africans like Algerians, Tunisians, Egyptian, Saharawi, etc.: (then notice the Canarian sample, it's like the majority found in the Canary Islands)

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Admixtures-Lazaridis.png

They are used as a reference population for North African, but the North African component itself is just a mix of mostly West Eurasian with a minority of SSA. Probably no North Africans ever had 100% of the North African component. European, and Bedoiun admixture in North Africa is nearly nonexistent. Southwest Asian component in North Africa for example predates the Arabs by thousands of years. After all, the original Berber speakers came from the Middle East.

[Isleño]

They are used as a reference population for North African, but the North African component itself is just a mix of mostly West Eurasian with a minority of SSA. Probably no North Africans ever had 100% of the North African component. European, and Bedoiun admixture in North Africa is nearly nonexistent. Southwest Asian component in North Africa for example predates the Arabs by thousands of years. After all, the original Berber speakers came from the Middle East.You can see the SSA admixture on the autosomal test, it's in orange, it's small. North African is actually the prehistoric back flow back into Africa. Sure there is SSA in all Berbers, but as far as the "North African" component is concerned, Mozabites are the purest in North Africa. The autosomal study I posted shows us this. SSA is on the study. It's larger in other populations like Tunisians for example. According to the latest autosomals I posted, SW Asian and other elements that are found in Europeans are present. Actually Middle Eastern and European admixtures are also prehistoric as well as ancient. Don't forget there were Phoenician settlements in North Africa. SW Asian and Neolithic Med is substantial in the other North African samples in the study. So for the North African element, these North Africans are less "pure".

[Cristiano viejo]

Thanks, I'm really interested in what the Guanches looked like. Are there any photos of Canarians who have the most Guanche genetics today?

There are some (many) Canarians with uber-strange phenotypes. Here a few

Patricia Rodríguez (Miss Spain 2008)

http://www.canarias7.es/fotos/o/0803/86871-1p.jpg

Jonathan Viera (not Spanish surname but well. He is the most non-European look that I have seen in Canarian people. He even looks more Latin than North African imo)

http://www.marca.com/imagenes/2013/02/13/futbol/equipos/valencia/1360763997_extras_mosaico_noticia_1_g_0.jpg

Pedro

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT7llVAQRV0tCJry1L1l1X_Q9P9OAP8S poJprphv3ecvYXhN_h3hG6hHvIS

talking about blond Canarians, they also have a few

Alexis Ruano

http://www.somosche.com/media/galeria/56/3/0/8/4/o_valencia_alexis_ruano-24803.jpg

Alejandro J. Hernández

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VUycyNV5134/UrQvJ3dSo_I/AAAAAAAAC_U/SKV4jaURi_w/s320/hernandez+hernandez.jpg

Armando Sosa "Mandi"

http://img.vavel.com/o_real_madrid_real_madrid_castilla_3840781_4599966 85.jpg

@ISLEÑO :p:p:p:p:p:p

Indianos were not only in Canarias, my friend, but in whole Spain. In fact, they were in large number in Northern Spain (Galicia, Asturias and Cantabria mainly). They were/are famous for built their houses according the colonial model.

Indiano house in Cantabria

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQt16QUelC2XVUg6SoOdiZv6RKZO5nyM g_tCy4XWUe9O_YREttikQ

And yes, they were not mixed people at all, just Spaniards returning to Spain (at least here in the península). What my Canarian friend told me has nothing to do (or yes, I dont know) with Indiano Canarians. He spoke about Latin American immigration in Canarias. You say that there is not Latin American genes in Canarias, and maybe you are right, idk. Perhaps the Canarian accent and some customs arrived to Canarians from 100% ethnic Canarians, idk I repeat. But it´s curious...

[Isleño]

There are some (many) Canarians with uber-strange phenotypes. Here a few

Patricia Rodríguez (Miss Spain 2008)

http://www.canarias7.es/fotos/o/0803/86871-1p.jpg

Jonathan Viera (not Spanish surname but well. He is the most non-European look that I have seen in Canarian people. He even looks more Latin than North African imo)

http://www.marca.com/imagenes/2013/02/13/futbol/equipos/valencia/1360763997_extras_mosaico_noticia_1_g_0.jpg

Pedro

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT7llVAQRV0tCJry1L1l1X_Q9P9OAP8S poJprphv3ecvYXhN_h3hG6hHvIS

talking about blond Canarians, they also have a few

Alexis Ruano

http://www.somosche.com/media/galeria/56/3/0/8/4/o_valencia_alexis_ruano-24803.jpg

Alejandro J. Hernández

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VUycyNV5134/UrQvJ3dSo_I/AAAAAAAAC_U/SKV4jaURi_w/s320/hernandez+hernandez.jpg

Armando Sosa "Mandi"

http://img.vavel.com/o_real_madrid_real_madrid_castilla_3840781_4599966 85.jpg

@ISLEÑO :p:p:p:p:p:p

Indianos were not only in Canarias, my friend, but in whole Spain. In fact, they were in large number in Northern Spain (Galicia, Asturias and Cantabria mainly). They were/are famous for built their houses according the colonial model.

Indiano house in Cantabria

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQt16QUelC2XVUg6SoOdiZv6RKZO5nyM g_tCy4XWUe9O_YREttikQ

And yes, they were not mixed people at all, just Spaniards returning to Spain (at least here in the península). What my Canarian friend told me has nothing to do (or yes, I dont know) with Indiano Canarians. He spoke about Latin American immigration in Canarias. You say that there is not Latin American genes in Canarias, and maybe you are right, idk. Perhaps the Canarian accent and some customs arrived to Canarians from 100% ethnic Canarians, idk I repeat. But it´s curious...
Good post my friend. And yes you are right, some Canarian phenotypes are exotic, but that's because those types have significant Guanche ancestry and the very exotic ones are largely Guanche. Then you have the other end of the spectrum, where there are Canarians that look exactly like the peninsula and some that look like slightly NA influenced Iberians. But I think most of us are predominantly European with minor NA admixture. I live among Canarians and see Canarian faces all day long every day. So I can attest to that some are on the exotic side, but most are not that much different than Iberians, maybe just a little.

As for Indianos, yes I know it was for all of Spain, I was talking about the ones in Canarias. My family has told me of this and I have relatives in Canarias and they have told me of this. They all say it was returning Canarians, not Latin Americans. But it makes sense, because DNA tests on Canarians show no Native American and barely any SSA (which if there is any, it's usually indirectly from the few percent of the Guanches). For us, most of the returning Canarians came from Cuba and Venezuela, but many also from Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic. But your friend is right about one thing, there are modern immigrants from Latin America in Canarias now, just like in the peninsula. But not all of those recent ones are mestizos/afromestizos, some are of Canarian descent. Oh, and Viera I think may be Portuguese.

But anyway, from the looks of the study, Canarians are like previously thought of, predominantly European with minor Guanche admixture.

As for Canarian culture, I'm sure you may be familiar with it, but it's like a three-way cross between the Iberian peninsula, North Africa and Latin America. Oh and the sweet Canary accent....:thumb001:

[Cristiano viejo]

and barely any SSA (which if there is any, it's usually indirectly from the few percent of the Guanches).
I doubt that Guanches had SSA contribution, they were an isolated people, and the mix between Berbers and niggas was much more later.


Oh, and Viera I think may be Portuguese.

Yes, me too.

Respect to the Canarian accent, in the península is very difficult to differenciate it of these of Latin America such as Cuban, Puerto Rican, Venezuelan etc

[Isleño]

I doubt that Guanches had SSA contribution, they were an isolated people, and the mix between Berbers and niggas was much more later. Yes, it's possible. And if there is any it would probably be very small.




Respect to the Canarian accent, in the península is very difficult to differenciate it of these of Latin America such as Cuban, Puerto Rican, Venezuelan etcYes, I know. There are many stories of Canarians when in the península, get friends there to call for an apartment or house for them because the renter/seller may think they are Latin American and would rather rent to a Spaniard first.

I've been mistaken for a Caribbean person in other U.S. states when I speak Spanish, because they are not familiar with a Canarian accent. Sometimes I get Cuban, sometimes, Puerto Rican, sometimes Venezuelan. This has happen to me by Latin Americans and Spaniards (except Canarians of course), but I've also gotten "Canarian" by peninsulares. Latin American people are surprised when I say I'm Spanish descent because they expect me to speak like someone from Madrid with accent and ceceo (they don't even take into consideration that people in Andalucía speak differently in accent even some with seseo). Also, Latin Americans are surprised to hear me speak without the "theta" pronounciation of the Ci or Ce or Z. But I even explained that Canarians are not the only Spaniards to speak without it, some parts of Andalucía speak like that.

I've had friends that have Caribbean accents (Cuban, Puerto Rican, Venezuelan) and they told me when they were in the península, many people asked them if they were Canarian (and strangely, when some Canarians are in the península, they get asked if they are Cuban, Puerto Rican or Venezuelan, but not always and are also asked if they are Canarian). I believe these Latin American Caribbeans speak like this because our Canarian accent had the biggest impact on their accents (notice all of the places that sound similar to Canarian is where mass Canarian immigration has taken place).

[Isleño]

bump

[Gaston]

I doubt that Guanches had SSA contribution, they were an isolated people, and the mix between Berbers and niggas was much more later.


Of course they had non-Eurasian contributions. The only Guanche testing showed African mtdna: L2 (2.8%), L3* (7%), L3d (1.4%) and L3e (1.4%).

[Isleño]

Of course they had non-Eurasian contributions. The only Guanche testing showed African mtdna: L2 (2.8%), L3* (7%), L3d (1.4%) and L3e (1.4%).Yes, but they were not large. Sub-Saharan haplogroups were found to be a total of 7% of their gene pool, while 93% were North African/west Eurasian. Autosomally, the SSA was probably less.

"Teeth from 38 aboriginal remains of La Palma (Canary Islands) were analyzed for external and endogenous mitochondrial DNA control region sequences and for diagnostic coding positions. Informative sequences were obtained from 30 individuals (78.9%). The majority of lineages (93%) were from West Eurasian origin, being the rest (7%) from sub-Saharan African ascription. The bulk of the aboriginal haplotypes had exact matches in North Africa (70%). However, the indigenous Canarian sub-type U6b1, also detected in La Palma, has not yet been found in North Africa, the cradle of the U6 expansion. The most abundant H1 clade in La Palma, defined by transition 16260, is also very rare in North Africa. This means that the exact region from which the ancestors of the Canarian aborigines came has not yet been sampled or that they have been replaced by later human migrations. The high gene diversity found in La Palma (95.2±2.3), which is one of the farthest islands from the African continent, is of the same level than the previously found in the central island of Tenerife (92.4±2.8). This is against the supposition that the islands were colonized from the continent by island hopping and posterior isolation. On the other hand, the great similarity found between the aboriginal populations of La Palma and Tenerife is against the idea of an island-by-island independent maritime colonization without secondary contacts. Our data better fit to an island model with frequent migrations between islands."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2986650/

I'm 10% Guanche and my SSA is 0.5%. So if we timed that by 10, that comes out to 5% SSA for a full Guanche.

[Gaston]

Wishful thinking and clueless, as usual.

[Axios]

What about riffians isleño?

[Damião de Góis]

Oh, and Viera I think may be Portuguese.




Yes, me too.


How funny is this? Anyway, Viera is not a portuguese surname... and he looks a bit far from normal portuguese people:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LW2F1hFIerQ/TzX8Akj0u4I/AAAAAAAAAyU/_-a5VBC9ysw/s1600/jonathan+viera.jpg

vs

http://imgs.cmjornal.xl.pt/2013-03/2013-03-17182238_ca967162-b341-4feb-88dd-fecb0766bf67$$738D42D9-134C-4FBE-A85A-DA00E83FDC20$$4AEA9CDC-E550-4109-BB92-28FFF853F5F0$$img_641x400$$pt$$1.jpg

[Cristiano viejo]

How funny is this? Anyway, Viera is not a portuguese surname... and he looks a bit far from normal portuguese people:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LW2F1hFIerQ/TzX8Akj0u4I/AAAAAAAAAyU/_-a5VBC9ysw/s1600/jonathan+viera.jpg

vs

http://imgs.cmjornal.xl.pt/2013-03/2013-03-17182238_ca967162-b341-4feb-88dd-fecb0766bf67$$738D42D9-134C-4FBE-A85A-DA00E83FDC20$$4AEA9CDC-E550-4109-BB92-28FFF853F5F0$$img_641x400$$pt$$1.jpg
No one said that he looks Portuguese.
I thought that Viera was a Portuguese surname, sounds Portuguese to me :noidea:

[Damião de Góis]

No one said that he looks Portuguese.
I thought that Viera was a Portuguese surname, sounds Portuguese to me :noidea:

Vieira is portuguese or galician. Viera could be italian or a south american variant of the galician Vieira (seems to be some uruguayans with that surname).

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

People from Canary Islands has more to do with Spain than with North Africa.
http://canariasactual.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/gente6.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tt6qfIwChZk/TnU11cVAPcI/AAAAAAAAAcE/cmLj4cXH8l0/s1600/familia+de+mellizos+por+partida+doble.JPG
http://clearharmony.net/a_images/2005/03/2005-03-24-sp050324hf03.gif
http://www.costanoroeste.com/tl_files/images/surf/300x200/surf_group_teachers_famara.jpg
https://www.google.es/search?q=gente+de+islas+canarias&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=w2XeU-STBu7G7AaE4IDoCw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=992&bih=486
Yes. Pero algunos aquí no entienden esto. Y deja decirte que parece que la palabra de alguen que nunca a pisado españa sus palabras vale mas que de un español peninsular mismo. (Te doy de ejemplo el caso de mis parientes...que algunos aqui han dicho que no pueden pasar en España, pero los españoles aqui dicen que si. Yo le dije okay, los españoles dicen que si, y ellos me dicen que en su opinión que no....y luego digo a quien le tomo la palabra a alguien de España, un español mismo o la de que nunca a pisado españa. xD

[Isleño]

Wishful thinking and clueless, as usual.Are you referring to my response to you? It was a genetic study, not my own opinion.

[Isleño]

What about riffians isleño?
I've read up on Riffians, it would be cool to post a thread about them. As for the Guanches, they were said to be of two types, one type resembling the Riffians and the other type resembling the Mozabites.

[Isleño]

Vieira is portuguese or galician. Viera could be italian or a south american variant of the galician Vieira (seems to be some uruguayans with that surname).

It could probably be Galician. The Canary Islands got immigration from all over Iberia over many centuries. But guy Viera in the pic above is not the average for a Canarian. I live around Canarians, I can tell you that. Most Canarians are predominantly Iberian with minor NA and look like this guy:

http://www.triangulodigital.es/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/yeray-home.jpg

[Isleño]

Yes. Pero algunos aquí no entienden esto. Y deja decirte que parece que la palabra de alguen que nunca a pisado españa sus palabras vale mas que de un español peninsular mismo. (Te doy de ejemplo el caso de mis parientes...que algunos aqui han dicho que no pueden pasar en España, pero los españoles aqui dicen que si. Yo le dije okay, los españoles dicen que si, y ellos me dicen que en su opinión que no....y luego digo a quien le tomo la palabra a alguien de España, un español mismo o la de que nunca a pisado españa. xD
Sí , la mayoría de Canarios son predominantemente de origen Europeo , pero con mezcla Nortafricana.

[Kagawa]

I am 0.5% SSA and I'm 10% Guanche. So I'd imagine someone that would be predominantly Guanche would probably have about 3-4% SSA like found among Riffian Berbers. If I had to try and pick out someone to show you from the Canary Islands that is probably predominantly Guanche, it would be Jose Velez:

http://people1971.com/images1/jose-velez-3.jpg

I'm Riffian and i have 0.2% SSA.

Are there people who speak Berber in the Canary islands, like this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmwi_EWmLLQ

[Leo Iscariot]

I've read up on Riffians, it would be cool to post a thread about them. As for the Guanches, they were said to be of two types, one type resembling the Riffians and the other type resembling the Mozabites.

I don't know too much about Guanches, but I've read that they were tall, fair-skinned, and had red hair.

I don't know if that's true, but them resembling Riffians sounds more legit.

[Empecinado]

I don't know too much about Guanches, but I've read that they were tall, fair-skinned, and had red hair.

I don't know if that's true, but them resembling Riffians sounds more legit.

That's a myth and exaggeration, some for sure were but not most of them.

[Tooting Carmen]

That's a myth and exaggeration, some for sure were but not most of them.

What, blonde or like Berbers?

[Empecinado]

What, blonde or like Berbers?

Blonde.

[Leo Iscariot]

That's a myth and exaggeration, some for sure were but not most of them.

I figured as much.

Does that come from the Vandal heritage, though?

[Smeagol]

I figured as much.

Does that come from the Vandal heritage, though?

There is no Vandal heritage in Canarians, and Berbers. There weren't enough Vandals in North Africa to have any kind of impact, and they never even went to the Canary Islands.. Besides, blond Berbers never look Germanic.

[Cristiano viejo]

Canarians have nothing to do with Vandals, but I am not very sure that the Vandals did not leave their blood in Northern Africa.

Respect to blond Canarians, well, there were quite Norman-French immigration at the beggining of its conquest, and of course most of Canarians have Castilian origins. Nothing to do with possible Germanic origins, or alternative theories.

[Isleño]

Canarians have nothing to do with Vandals, but I am not very sure that the Vandals did not leave their blood in Northern Africa.

Respect to blond Canarians, well, there were quite Norman-French immigration at the beggining of its conquest, and of course most of Canarians have Castilian origins. Nothing to do with possible Germanic origins, or alternative theories.

Yes, that's true Cristiano. There were some French that came in the beginning of the conquest of the Canary Islands. One of the most famous was Jean de Bethancourt. There are many Canarians with the surname Bethancourt/Betancor because of him.

I have a strange surname in my family I haven't seen in peninsulares and it's and I found it that it came from a Frenchman from like several hundred years ago that settled Canarias. But most that came were from Iberia and many were Castilians and Andalusians. We also received some Portuguese. We have ancestry from all over Iberia. I even have in my own family some people that have lighter features as well as darker features. My father is dark in complexion and my mother is medium and my sister is light and my brother is dark and my grandma is light and my grandpa is dark, etc.... we have all different hair colors like black hair, dark brown hair, medium brown hair, some have some red pigment in the hair. Just like you could find in Iberia. And especially my family since our Guanche is very low (10% is mine).

[Isleño]

That's a myth and exaggeration, some for sure were but not most of them.Yes, it's an exaggeration. The blondness was observed by the peninsulares when they arrived in Tenerife, so it was among the natives of Tenerife they wrote this about. But there were two types in Canarias at the time of the arrival of peninsulares, one tall Cro-Magnon type with olive skin and lighter hair colors found among their population (like you see among Berbers in North Africa) and a short dark Mediterranean type with dark hair and dark features. But just like any fascination, the exoticness was just over-exaggerated.

[Anthropologique]

For genetic purposes, Canarians are normally treated separately from Iberians. However, a significant number of Canarians do show Iberian scores - probably full or majority Peninsular heritage.

[Isleño]

I'm Riffian and i have 0.2% SSA.

Are there people who speak Berber in the Canary islands, like this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmwi_EWmLLQ

The Guanche language (similar to Tamazight) is not spoken fluently anymore as an everyday language by any of the population, but there are plenty of place names and names for animals and plants in the language. There are some words that have entered into the Canarian Spanish dialect such as a common word we use "baifo" which means goat. I use a popular Canarian phrase often and it's "Se me fue el baifo" which is slang for a way to say like you are losing your mind or if you forgot something.

[Isleño]

For genetic purposes, Canarians are normally treated separately from Iberians. However, a significant number of Canarians do show Iberian scores - probably full or majority Peninsular heritage.Yes, there are many that score similar to Iberians as well as near Iberians. We can see that from the study in the OP I posted. And just the opposite of that, there are a few that are predominantly Guanche ancestry, but they are a minority. I'd say most of the population of Canarias is in the 10-20% NA range.

[Isleño]

There is no Vandal heritage in Canarians, and Berbers. There weren't enough Vandals in North Africa to have any kind of impact, and they never even went to the Canary Islands.. Besides, blond Berbers never look Germanic.

No, I wouldn't think the Vandals had a large impact on North Africa. It's said that the Guanches were taken to the islands by the Ancient Romans as an exile. I've heard some say it was the Phoenicians that did it. But whoever did it, it seems they did come from mainland North Africa at one time because in antiquity the islands were written about by early explorers to be uninhabited. The Guanches, despite being an island people, had no knowledge of seafaring and lived a pastoral lifestyle.

[quediustu]

I'm surprised to see that there is a lot of heterogeneity, some individuals score 0 NA while others score more than half. I expected the population to be more homogeneous since the conquest of the Canary islands happened more than 5 centuries ago.
But I guess the reason for this may be similar with what happened in Argentina for example: initial settlers who mixed with the natives plus successive migration waves which watered down the native admixture in the regions of arrival. In this case the most populated islands seem to be the less NA influenced while more isolated parts like la Gomera show a lot more.

Also I don't know how serious this study was in selecting samples because there are 2 individuals from Iberia who score more than half NA, as well as 2 from northwestern Africa who score less than half of it.

[Isleño]

I'm surprised to see that there is a lot of heterogeneity, some individuals score 0 NA while others score more than half. I expected the population to be more homogeneous since the conquest of the Canary islands happened more than 5 centuries ago.
But I guess the reason for this may be similar with what happened in Argentina for example: initial settlers who mixed with the natives plus successive migration waves which watered down the native admixture in the regions of arrival. In this case the most populated islands seem to be the less NA influenced while more isolated parts like la Gomera show a lot more.

Also I don't know how serious this study was in selecting samples because there are 2 individuals from Iberia who score more than half NA, as well as 2 from northwestern Africa who score less than half of it.
Oh yes, it's a serious study and has DNA from national databases as well as privately acquired DNA data. It's just that most Iberians either don't have any or have very little, but there may be a few in Iberia that have a substantial amount, same in North Africa for the Euro ancestry. Among Canarians, it depends on the island, town, city, region, family, how far back family history goes, etc. Yes, the two most populated islands of Tenerife and Gran Canaria have the least while la Gomera has the most and all the other islands have just a little more than Tenerife and Gran Canaria. But on each island, there will be some with just a little or even none, while others having significant amounts and even large amounts. The same pattern took shape in Latin America. But if we look at the whole picture, most Canarians are predominantly Iberian with minor Guanche admixture ranging from 10%-20%. I myself have 10% and although having ancestry from several islands, most of it is from Tenerife/Gran Canaria, so I'm predominantly European.

[Isleño]

I'm surprised to see that there is a lot of heterogeneity, some individuals score 0 NA while others score more than half. I expected the population to be more homogeneous since the conquest of the Canary islands happened more than 5 centuries ago.
But I guess the reason for this may be similar with what happened in Argentina for example: initial settlers who mixed with the natives plus successive migration waves which watered down the native admixture in the regions of arrival. In this case the most populated islands seem to be the less NA influenced while more isolated parts like la Gomera show a lot more.

Also I don't know how serious this study was in selecting samples because there are 2 individuals from Iberia who score more than half NA, as well as 2 from northwestern Africa who score less than half of it.
I was quite surprised myself to see the high degree of heterogeneity among Canarians myself, but this can explain some phenotypes. The lowest North African in the study was 0% and the highest was 96%. That's extreme. But it seems most (the majority) are like previously thought, predominantly Euro with minor NA. 80-90% European / 10-20% North African.

[Isleño]

Bump

[Isleño]

Bump

[Isleño]

I'm surprised to see that there is a lot of heterogeneity, some individuals score 0 NA while others score more than half. I expected the population to be more homogeneous since the conquest of the Canary islands happened more than 5 centuries ago.
But I guess the reason for this may be similar with what happened in Argentina for example: initial settlers who mixed with the natives plus successive migration waves which watered down the native admixture in the regions of arrival. In this case the most populated islands seem to be the less NA influenced while more isolated parts like la Gomera show a lot more.

Also I don't know how serious this study was in selecting samples because there are 2 individuals from Iberia who score more than half NA, as well as 2 from northwestern Africa who score less than half of it.This could be possible. If this was in fact the case, even those Canarians with no Guanche ancestry or little Guanche ancestry could have had significant Guanche ancestors centuries back. But who knows. I assumed those with no Guanche ancestry were only a couple generations deep of recent migration from the Iberian peninsula. But your theory could be possible.

[MysteriousWays]

I think this makes some sense and describes why canarians are where they are on a pca plot.

[Isleño]

I think this makes some sense and describes why canarians are where they are on a pca plot.
Yes, I agree. There is a wide range among Canarians. But I do want to say, when you average all these into one average, you get 83% Iberian, 17% North African.

[Zuh]

That's what the peninsulares say about us. They think we sound like Cubans and Venezuelans when we speak Spanish. I was watching a video once by two peninsulares and one was supposed to be playing a Canarian and he kept saying "Chico" like a Cuban, because they were trying to make us seem like we sound like Cubans. We don't say chico, we say chacho, mijo or mi niño. But they think our accents sound like Cubans and Venezuelans. But anyway, it was a comedy skit.

That's very interesting because Mexicans use mijo or mija word a lot how is that possible when no Canarian influenced in Mexico to make an impact??

[Leo Iscariot]

I fall into the largest group, whom are those of predominantly European ancestry with minor North African admixture as my genetic make-up is 90% European, 10% North African.

That's interesting, because I (Despite not being a 'full Canarian') scored 84% European and 10% North African.

If that's about the average, I really wonder what my parents and grandparents would score for North Africa.

[Isleño]

That's very interesting because Mexicans use mijo or mija word a lot how is that possible when no Canarian influenced in Mexico to make an impact??
It’s coincidence. Mijo is just a corrupted form of mi hijo (my son). However, there was a few Canarians that settled in Mexico as well as founding San Antonio, Texas, which was Mexico when they founded it. So it’s possible it transferred to Mexico, but that’s only if we’ve been using mijo that long. There is a Mexican food called pinole which is extremely similar to a food invented by our Canarian ancestors called gofio. Pinole is sometimes called gofio pinole. So it’s obvious this dish came from Canarians.

[Isleño]

That's interesting, because I (Despite not being a 'full Canarian') scored 84% European and 10% North African.

If that's about the average, I really wonder what my parents and grandparents would score for North Africa.It all depends. Canarians have a wide range for Guanche mixture. Several of my maternal family members tested and got 13%,17%, 20% and 26%. It just depends on the family and what town or island they came from. I seem to have the lowest amount. It’s because my father’s family has a lower amount as the higher amounts all come from my mothers family. I have two cousins that tested on my father’s side and they had 11% and 9%. So it makes sense for me. However, we are all predominantly Iberian descent. Your full blooded Canarian relative could have had 20%. You never know. Sometimes the ancestry is not cut in half and you receive all of it or most of it or less of it. DNA is random like that.

[rajputprincess]

Interesting people.

Sent from my ZUK Z2132 using Tapatalk

[Nassbean]

I'm surprised to see that there are still canarians who are predominantely berber do you know where the majority of them live ?

[Cristiano viejo]

I'm surprised to see that there are still canarians who are predominantely berber do you know where the majority of them live ?

Yes. The most recent genetic study about Canarians was published only a few months ago, and it is very interesting because precisely they speak about where the native blood exists the most.


Los valores más altos de ascendencia aborigen se observan para la población de La Gomera (55,5%) y La Palma (41,0%), mientras que los valores más bajos se encuentran en El Hierro (0,0%) y Tenerife (22,0%).

https://www.ull.es/portal/noticias/2019/una-investigacion-liderada-por-la-ull-demuestra-que-existe-mas-de-un-linaje-genetico-autoctono-de-canarias/

[Daos777]

Canarians are commonly perceived to be predominantly European with minor North African ancestry, some more, some less. But is this true? Let's take a closer look at Canarian genetics in comparison to Iberian genetics and North African genetics. This look into Canarian genetics is based on the study from Pino-Yanes et al., 2011.

Since it's anticipated that Canarians are predominantly European, this thread will examine the North African admixture percentage in Canarians.

Looking at the samples from the study this thread is based on, I counted the number of samples that made up the Canarian sample as a whole. I also counted the number of samples with no North African ancestry, those that are around half to mainly North African ancestry and those with minor North African admixture whom are predominantly European. From what I can tell (I'm rounding the percentage), it looks like about 50% of the samples are mainly European with minor North African admixture, about 30% have no North African admixture and look to be completely European or near full with just a few percent, and about 20% are around half to mainly North African. {50%/30%/20%} Again, this look into Canarian genetics is based on the study from Pino-Yanes et al., 2011.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0018389

IBE=Iberians NWA=North Africans CAN=Canarians_1 CBN=Canarians_2
http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0018389.g003&representation=PNG_L

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0018389.g002&representation=PNG_L

Calculated North African total averages among Canarians as a whole and per island, in comparison to Iberians and North Africans
http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0018389.t002&representation=PNG_L

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0018389.g001&representation=PNG_L

My conclusion of the study is that half of the population of the Canary Islands is predominantly European with minor admixture. Almost One-third of the population is completely European or having around 1-5% admixture and one-fifth is at least half or mostly North African. So it does hold true that most Canarians are predominantly European with minor North African admixture. But surprisingly, a significant portion of the population is purely European and a smaller population is at least half to predominantly North African.

To break it down even further, we can say that 50% are predominantly Euro with minor NA admix (10-20%), 30% are a mix of full and near full Euros (1-5% NA admix), 10% are mestizo types (half Euro/half Berber) and 10% are predominantly Guanche Berber. Of course these numbers have been rounded off. {50/30/10/10}

I fall into the largest group, whom are those of predominantly European ancestry with minor North African admixture as my genetic make-up is 90% European, 10% North African.

Topic open for discussion :thumb001:

Found answer. Post not needed.

[FilhoV]

Great post on the PCA for G25 I’m clustering right on the Canárias plot

https://i.imgur.com/lEgQFOK.jpg

[Rocinante]

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN19
Distance: 2.7948% / 0.02794845
47.4 Early_European_Farmer
27.2 Steppe_Pastoralist
10.6 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
9.2 Iberomaurusian
5.6 Early_Levantine_Farmer

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN1920
Distance: 2.1664% / 0.02166424
51.2 Early_European_Farmer
25.6 Steppe_Pastoralist
12.0 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
8.8 Iberomaurusian
2.4 Africa_Mesolithic

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN2
Distance: 1.6689% / 0.01668911
50.6 Early_European_Farmer
26.6 Steppe_Pastoralist
10.6 Iberomaurusian
8.6 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
3.6 Africa_Mesolithic

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN3
Distance: 1.8045% / 0.01804487
50.2 Early_European_Farmer
27.4 Steppe_Pastoralist
10.6 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
9.0 Iberomaurusian
2.0 Ancient_Dravidian
0.6 Ancient_American
0.2 Northeastern_Asia_Neolithic

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN4
Distance: 2.8094% / 0.02809352
52.4 Early_European_Farmer
27.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
10.4 Iberomaurusian
10.0 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
0.2 Ancient_American

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN884
Distance: 2.3804% / 0.02380359
52.6 Early_European_Farmer
31.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
9.0 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
7.4 Iberomaurusian

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN9
Distance: 2.2376% / 0.02237602
49.8 Early_European_Farmer
32.4 Steppe_Pastoralist
9.2 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
6.6 Iberomaurusian
2.0 Early_Levantine_Farmer

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN924
Distance: 2.7976% / 0.02797555
48.8 Early_European_Farmer
28.2 Steppe_Pastoralist
14.2 Iberomaurusian
6.4 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
1.2 Africa_Mesolithic
1.2 Iran_Neolithic

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN956
Distance: 2.2969% / 0.02296932
52.0 Early_European_Farmer
28.2 Steppe_Pastoralist
9.0 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
8.4 Iberomaurusian
1.8 Early_Levantine_Farmer
0.6 Africa_Mesolithic

Target: Spanish_Canarias:HG01694
Distance: 2.3504% / 0.02350375
51.6 Early_European_Farmer
28.2 Steppe_Pastoralist
9.8 Iberomaurusian
9.2 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
1.2 Africa_Mesolithic

Target: Spanish_Canarias:HG01695
Distance: 2.1148% / 0.02114833
53.4 Early_European_Farmer
24.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
11.2 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
10.4 Iberomaurusian
1.0 Africa_Mesolithic

[Nassbean]

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN19
Distance: 2.7948% / 0.02794845
47.4 Early_European_Farmer
27.2 Steppe_Pastoralist
10.6 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
9.2 Iberomaurusian
5.6 Early_Levantine_Farmer

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN1920
Distance: 2.1664% / 0.02166424
51.2 Early_European_Farmer
25.6 Steppe_Pastoralist
12.0 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
8.8 Iberomaurusian
2.4 Africa_Mesolithic

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN2
Distance: 1.6689% / 0.01668911
50.6 Early_European_Farmer
26.6 Steppe_Pastoralist
10.6 Iberomaurusian
8.6 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
3.6 Africa_Mesolithic

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN3
Distance: 1.8045% / 0.01804487
50.2 Early_European_Farmer
27.4 Steppe_Pastoralist
10.6 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
9.0 Iberomaurusian
2.0 Ancient_Dravidian
0.6 Ancient_American
0.2 Northeastern_Asia_Neolithic

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN4
Distance: 2.8094% / 0.02809352
52.4 Early_European_Farmer
27.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
10.4 Iberomaurusian
10.0 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
0.2 Ancient_American

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN884
Distance: 2.3804% / 0.02380359
52.6 Early_European_Farmer
31.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
9.0 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
7.4 Iberomaurusian

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN9
Distance: 2.2376% / 0.02237602
49.8 Early_European_Farmer
32.4 Steppe_Pastoralist
9.2 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
6.6 Iberomaurusian
2.0 Early_Levantine_Farmer

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN924
Distance: 2.7976% / 0.02797555
48.8 Early_European_Farmer
28.2 Steppe_Pastoralist
14.2 Iberomaurusian
6.4 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
1.2 Africa_Mesolithic
1.2 Iran_Neolithic

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN956
Distance: 2.2969% / 0.02296932
52.0 Early_European_Farmer
28.2 Steppe_Pastoralist
9.0 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
8.4 Iberomaurusian
1.8 Early_Levantine_Farmer
0.6 Africa_Mesolithic

Target: Spanish_Canarias:HG01694
Distance: 2.3504% / 0.02350375
51.6 Early_European_Farmer
28.2 Steppe_Pastoralist
9.8 Iberomaurusian
9.2 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
1.2 Africa_Mesolithic

Target: Spanish_Canarias:HG01695
Distance: 2.1148% / 0.02114833
53.4 Early_European_Farmer
24.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
11.2 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
10.4 Iberomaurusian
1.0 Africa_Mesolithic


can you send me the model you used for this ? I have some guanche samples here

[Rocinante]

can you send me the model you used for this ? I have some guanche samples here

The one of my signature bro, the one YOU DIDN'T GAVE THUMBS :(

That's my best model yet, and the best i ever seen been honest, giving good and realistic results below %3 of distance.

Post these guanche samples in this thread and lets discuss it here, i think these canarian samples of G25 are extremely european.

[Nassbean]

The one of my signature bro, the one YOU DIDN'T GAVE THUMBS :(

That's my best model yet, and the best i ever seen been honest, giving good and realistic results below %3 of distance.

Post these guanche samples in this thread and lets discuss it here, i think these canarian samples of G25 are extremely european.

haha ok wait I'll post their results and yes I've been attacked by plenty of canarians for saying that they are mostly european

[Nassbean]

The one of my signature bro, the one YOU DIDN'T GAVE THUMBS :(

That's my best model yet, and the best i ever seen been honest, giving good and realistic results below %3 of distance.

Post these guanche samples in this thread and lets discuss it here, i think these canarian samples of G25 are extremely european.


Very similar to my results wow :

Target: gun008
Distance: 2.2143% / 0.02214299
44.8 Early_European_Farmer
30.4 Iberomaurusian
12.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
6.0 Africa_Mesolithic
6.0 Early_Levantine_Farmer
0.8 Western_Hunter-Gatherer


here more :

Target: gun011
Distance: 2.1517% / 0.02151742
38.0 Iberomaurusian
37.8 Early_European_Farmer
8.2 Steppe_Pastoralist
5.4 Early_Levantine_Farmer
4.8 Africa_Mesolithic
3.2 Iran_Neolithic
2.6 Western_Hunter-Gatherer

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche
Distance: 1.8240% / 0.01823980
42.4 Early_European_Farmer
34.6 Iberomaurusian
10.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
6.0 Early_Levantine_Farmer
5.2 Africa_Mesolithic
1.0 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
0.8 Iran_Neolithic


I have other coordinates but they don't seem to be correct I get very weird results with them I doubt they are really guanche coordinates

[Rocinante]

Very similar to my results wow :

Target: gun008
Distance: 2.2143% / 0.02214299
44.8 Early_European_Farmer
30.4 Iberomaurusian
12.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
6.0 Africa_Mesolithic
6.0 Early_Levantine_Farmer
0.8 Western_Hunter-Gatherer


here more :

Target: gun011
Distance: 2.1517% / 0.02151742
38.0 Iberomaurusian
37.8 Early_European_Farmer
8.2 Steppe_Pastoralist
5.4 Early_Levantine_Farmer
4.8 Africa_Mesolithic
3.2 Iran_Neolithic
2.6 Western_Hunter-Gatherer

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche
Distance: 1.8240% / 0.01823980
42.4 Early_European_Farmer
34.6 Iberomaurusian
10.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
6.0 Early_Levantine_Farmer
5.2 Africa_Mesolithic
1.0 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
0.8 Iran_Neolithic


I have other coordinates but they don't seem to be correct I get very weird results with them I doubt they are really guanche coordinates

Very good distances, and seems to be that gun011 is the more guanche of all of them. I think wallid results are near gun008, but Adamm and you seem to be close too.

Uncomparable with today's canarians, at least of Tenefire and Gran Canaria.

[walid]

Very good distances, and seems to be that gun011 is the more guanche of all of them. I think wallid results are near gun008, but Adamm and you seem to be close too.

Uncomparable with today's canarians, at least of Tenefire and Gran Canaria.

Yes but in distance the closest one to me is gun011

https://i.imgur.com/Up79ZxW.png

[Rocinante]

Yes but in distance the closest one to me is gun011

blob:https://imgur.com/4261ba11-5aa2-401a-820c-5c5d0439a0fe

Can't see the picture bro xD

[walid]

i edited it

and this is my results with your model

Target: Walid_scaled
Distance: 2.3992% / 0.02399213
36.2 Early_European_Farmer
32.6 Iberomaurusian
11.8 Early_Levantine_Farmer
7.8 Africa_Mesolithic
6.2 Steppe_Pastoralist
5.4 Iran_Neolithic

gun011 seems much closer

[Rocinante]

i edited it

and this is my results with your model

Target: Walid_scaled
Distance: 2.3992% / 0.02399213
36.2 Early_European_Farmer
32.6 Iberomaurusian
11.8 Early_Levantine_Farmer
7.8 Africa_Mesolithic
6.2 Steppe_Pastoralist
5.4 Iran_Neolithic

gun011 seems much closer

32.6 Iberomaurusian

That's a bunch of Taforalt DNA right there, wow... Around the same amount of my Steppe.

[Raizen]

Very good distances, and seems to be that gun011 is the more guanche of all of them. I think wallid results are near gun008, but Adamm and you seem to be close too.

Uncomparable with today's canarians, at least of Tenefire and Gran Canaria.

Canarians are more or less 20% Guanche

[Rocinante]

Canarians are more or less 20% Guanche

No way, that's actually a lot. Might be around 12%.

[Raizen]

No way, that's actually a lot. Might be around 12%.

Target: Spanish_Canarias
Distance: 0.5630% / 0.00563008
33.8 Spanish_Extremadura
18.6 Canary_Islands_Guanche
13.4 Spanish_Barcelones
10.4 Spanish_Alacant
9.8 Spanish_Menorca
4.8 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
4.0 Spanish_Galicia
2.4 Spanish_Mallorca
2.0 Spanish_Penedes
0.8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha

[Rocinante]

Target: Spanish_Canarias
Distance: 0.5630% / 0.00563008
33.8 Spanish_Extremadura
18.6 Canary_Islands_Guanche
13.4 Spanish_Barcelones
10.4 Spanish_Alacant
9.8 Spanish_Menorca
4.8 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
4.0 Spanish_Galicia
2.4 Spanish_Mallorca
2.0 Spanish_Penedes
0.8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha

Dude... What kind of model is that? :lol:

They are ~88% european related and ~11% north african related and ~1% SSA related.

[Raizen]

Dude... What kind of model is that? :lol:

They are ~88% european related and ~11% north african related and ~1% SSA related.

I'm modelling them with Spaniards and Guanche. You are talking a lot but showing nothing

[Token]

Interestingly Madeirans always come closest to Canarians.

[Rocinante]

I'm modelling them with Spaniards and Guanche. You are talking a lot but showing nothing

You are blind, that's what's happening, why don't you look my post below in this thread?

No problem, let's show you something:

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN11
Distance: 2.0374% / 0.02037430
54.4 Early_European_Farmer
25.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
9.2 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
8.0 Iberomaurusian
2.6 Ancient_Dravidian
0.8 Africa_Mesolithic

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN10
Distance: 3.1492% / 0.03149222
53.0 Early_European_Farmer
24.2 Steppe_Pastoralist
10.0 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
9.8 Iberomaurusian
3.0 Africa_Mesolithic

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN1
Distance: 2.1648% / 0.02164773
52.6 Early_European_Farmer
26.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
10.6 Iberomaurusian
7.2 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
3.6 Africa_Mesolithic

Where is your 20% guanche?

[Raizen]

You are blind, that's what's happening, why don't you look my post below in this thread?

No problem, let's show you something:

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN11
Distance: 2.0374% / 0.02037430
54.4 Early_European_Farmer
25.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
9.2 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
8.0 Iberomaurusian
2.6 Ancient_Dravidian
0.8 Africa_Mesolithic

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN10
Distance: 3.1492% / 0.03149222
53.0 Early_European_Farmer
24.2 Steppe_Pastoralist
10.0 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
9.8 Iberomaurusian
3.0 Africa_Mesolithic

Target: Spanish_Canarias:CAN1
Distance: 2.1648% / 0.02164773
52.6 Early_European_Farmer
26.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
10.6 Iberomaurusian
7.2 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
3.6 Africa_Mesolithic

Where is your 20% guanche?

Dude i wonder when will your finally understand how to model with G25. Are you really that dumb or are you just playing the disingenuous?

Guanches and other North Africans were never fully Iberomaurusian, you can't mesaure North african ancestry by just throwing Iberomaurusian inside a model. So a good part of the EEF and other stuff will be naturally part of their Guanche ancestry. I wonder if i was clear enough or if i should paint to you, i'm not used to talk with people with that low iq

[Rocinante]

Dude i wonder when will your finally understand how to model with G25. Are you really that dumb or are you just playing the disingenuous?

Guanches and other North Africans were never fully Iberomaurusian, you can't mesaure North african ancestry by just throwing Iberomaurusian inside a model. So a good part of the EEF and other stuff will be naturally part of their Guanche ancestry. I wonder if i was clear enough or if i should paint to you, i'm not used to talk with people with that low iq

Or maybe is you mulatto brain that doesn't let you think that good, do not insult me you fucking mongrel.

Of course guanches are not fully iberomaurusian, but you can't take canarians as mixed 20% with something, if part of it are ancient european components like EEF.

Asshole.

[Raizen]

Or maybe is you mulatto brain that doesn't let you think that good, do not insult me you fucking mongrel.

Of course guanches are not fully iberomaurusian, but you can't take canarians as mixed 20% with something, if part of it are ancient european components like EEF.

Asshole.

Read again what i wrote monkey, i didn't said they are 20% Iberomaurusian, i said they are 20% Guanche. Roger that? You are playing with G25 24 hours per day and you still don't understand this simple shit, i can't believe there are people that dumb in the modern world.

[Rocinante]

Read again what i wrote monkey, i didn't said they were 20% Iberomaurusian, i said they were 20% Guanche. Roger that? You are playing with G25 24 hours per day and you still don't understand this simple shit, i can't believe there are people that dumb in the modern world.

A dumbass incel like you that put in the same model Bell-Beakers with EEF are the ones that should be forbidden from using Vahaduo. Like i said, a mongrel like you can't teach me how to model, and less if it's my fucking people, got it brown monkey?

[Raizen]

A dumbass incel like you that put in the same model Bell-Beakers with EEF are the ones that should be forbidden from using Vahaduo. Like i said, a mongrel like you can't teach me how to model, and less if it's my fucking people, got it brown monkey?

Dude what the fuck are you talking about? You are completely clueless. You always should use more proximate references, G25 was never meant to model deep ancestry. Ask davidski and he will spit it out straight in your ugly ass face. Your models are all wrong, the model in your signature is incorrect and you have nowhere near that much steppe ancestry, everything you've been doing is completely worthless. Do a favour to us and just leave genetics, now i'm convinced you don't have the intellectual capacity necessary to understand it, you are below the retarded iq line

[Rocinante]

Dude what the fuck are you talking about? You are completely clueless. You always should use more proximate references, G25 was never meant to model deep ancestry. Ask davidski and he will spit it out straight in your ugly ass face. Your models are all wrong, the model in your signature is incorrect and you have nowhere near that much steppe ancestry, everything you've been doing is completely worthless. Do a favour to us and just leave genetics, now i'm convinced you don't have the intellectual capacity necessary to understand it, you are below the retarded iq line

Hey, half-nigger, guess what, my 2 last models were made with Davidski's help, dickhead.

Also, you would fucking wish my bunch of steppe aryan ancestry, instead you have negro related yoruban :lol: enjoy your mongrelism, asshole! And do not show your fucking brown monkey ass in my threads.

[Raizen]

Hey, half-nigger, guess what, my 2 last models were made with Davidski's help, dickhead.

Also, you would fucking wish my bunch of steppe aryan ancestry, instead you have negro related yoruban :lol: enjoy your mongrelism, asshole! And do not show your fucking brown monkey ass in my threads.

You can't even interpret my results correctly, i'm 13% nigga you cluless low iq monkey. I hope you don't open any new thread, or i'll be there again to show how dumb you are. I feel disgust of dumb people, that is why

[Rocinante]

You can't even interpret my results correctly, i'm 13% nigga you cluless low iq monkey. I hope you don't open any new thread, or i'll be there again to show how dumb you are. I feel disgust of dumb people, that is why

Yeah, 13% nigger = Low inteligence mongrel. Do not come to Europe please, never do it, we don't want to mix with half-niggers that think they can insult every white person doing the right job and tryinng to help people here. Go to another forum, nigger.

[Samnium]

Dude what the fuck are you talking about? You are completely clueless. You always should use more proximate references, G25 was never meant to model deep ancestry. Ask davidski and he will spit it out straight in your ugly ass face. Your models are all wrong, the model in your signature is incorrect and you have nowhere near that much steppe ancestry, everything you've been doing is completely worthless. Do a favour to us and just leave genetics, now i'm convinced you don't have the intellectual capacity necessary to understand it, you are below the retarded iq line

He hasn't "very high" steppe, there are Southern Euros here with 38% Steppe (not counting WHG), it's rather consistent with his other genetical results and his ancestry I would say.

He isn't a Cypriot or a Maltese after all. I don't know why he should have lower values.

[Rocinante]

He hasn't "very high" steppe, there are Southern Euros here with 38% Steppe (not counting WHG), it's rather consistent with his other genetical results and his ancestry I would say.

He isn't a Cypriot or a Maltese after all. I don't know why he should have lower values.

Spanish peninsular average is

WHG ~13%
Steppe ~29%
EEF ~53%
IBEROM. ~4%

I have more steppe and less WHG than the average iberian.

[Rocinante]

Double.

[Cernunnos]

Two monkeys, throwing bananas at each other.... A TA classic.