"Northern Irish" isn't a proper nationality

[Fear Fiain]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9pq5OSiA5Y

"After a few months in the US, Britain, Australia or anywhere else in the world. Protestants who called themselves British or even "Northern Irish" will begin to call themselves Irish. For their sense of homesickness and connection with Ireland.

Today there are many people who call themselves "anti-sectarian" and "Northern Irish". Despite not knowing that they are indeed talking about. For if they read Irish history they will know there have been dozens of Irish Republican and Nationalist Protestants. Including the founder of Irish Republicanism - Theobald Wolfe Tone. From Irish Nationalists leaders like Charles Steward Parnell, to Irish Republican leaders such as Ronnie Bunting, son of a Paisleyite and British Army Major who became leader of the INLA and was assassinated by the SAS in collusion with the UDA. Others like John Mitchel, Henry Joy McCracken.

However some Protestants who accept that the Loyalist culture is one full of hate and want to get away from it, an are unfortunately uneducated on the matter will often describe themselves as "Northern Irish". However there is no such thing as being "Northern Irish". You can only be either British or Irish. Away from the hate filled streets of the Shankill and other Loyalist area's a group of young Protestants finally accept that they are Irish.

Irish Republicanism offers a real soulation to the problem if sectarianism in Ireland. For Wolfe Tone himself said: "...my goal was to unite Catholic, Protestant and dissenter."

In poll after poll done on the British mainland, poll after poll proves the vast majority of Britons want a united Ireland and view all Irish people as one. The only people preventing his, is Unionists and Loyalists along with the British government"

[Flower]

Knock it off orange boy.

[Fear Fiain]

Knock it off orange boy.

You win the internet. I'm done.

[Fear Fiain]

Knock it off orange boy.

http://i.imgur.com/D285uUu.png

gotta watch out for those Orange Order members with Irish Republican rolemodels... bloody brilliant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Barry_(soldier)

[Grace O'Malley]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9pq5OSiA5Y

"After a few months in the US, Britain, Australia or anywhere else in the world. Protestants who called themselves British or even "Northern Irish" will begin to call themselves Irish. For their sense of homesickness and connection with Ireland.

Today there are many people who call themselves "anti-sectarian" and "Northern Irish". Despite not knowing that they are indeed talking about. For if they read Irish history they will know there have been dozens of Irish Republican and Nationalist Protestants. Including the founder of Irish Republicanism - Theobald Wolfe Tone. From Irish Nationalists leaders like Charles Steward Parnell, to Irish Republican leaders such as Ronnie Bunting, son of a Paisleyite and British Army Major who became leader of the INLA and was assassinated by the SAS in collusion with the UDA. Others like John Mitchel, Henry Joy McCracken.

However some Protestants who accept that the Loyalist culture is one full of hate and want to get away from it, an are unfortunately uneducated on the matter will often describe themselves as "Northern Irish". However there is no such thing as being "Northern Irish". You can only be either British or Irish. Away from the hate filled streets of the Shankill and other Loyalist area's a group of young Protestants finally accept that they are Irish.

Irish Republicanism offers a real soulation to the problem if sectarianism in Ireland. For Wolfe Tone himself said: "...my goal was to unite Catholic, Protestant and dissenter."

In poll after poll done on the British mainland, poll after poll proves the vast majority of Britons want a united Ireland and view all Irish people as one. The only people preventing his, is Unionists and Loyalists along with the British government"

I wouldn't argue with people if they called themselves Northern Irish. I'm very much a live and let live person but it is true that here in Australia no one calls themselves Northern Irish because the Aussies are a bit clueless about the subject :). They don't know whether Dublin is in Northern Ireland or Southern Ireland and a lot don't know that most Irish people aren't British. People will just pick up your accent and call you Irish. I know some Protestants from Northern Ireland and they aren't very political about the subject and it becomes less important when you are away from it all. Most Northern Irish Protestants just call themselves Irish here otherwise it is just too much explaining to do. :) Anyway all Irish here support the Irish Rugby Team. :thumb001:

[Germanic King]

Obviously not. They are British.

[Germanic King]

Or Irish. Anyone born in Northern Ireland is eligible for either or both citizenships.

You learn something new every day....makes sense. They are living on the island of Ireland after all.

[Grace O'Malley]

You learn something new every day....makes sense. They are living on the island of Ireland after all.

Northern Irish people can choose what passport they wish to hold either British or Irish. People from the Republic have no restrictions in crossing the border and Northern Irish have no restrictions in coming to the Republic. Also all of the people of the British Isles whether Irish or British have freedom on movement in both Britain and the ROI. Both Ireland and Britain are not part of Schengen.

[Smaug]

Ulster je Éire!

[Graham]

Ulsterman. :P

[Merida]

:P


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C5e346QvRQ

[LightHouse89]

Or Irish. Anyone born in Northern Ireland is eligible for either or both citizenships.

I sort of dont know what to think of that. Anyway I am confused as to who to side with I have both ancestries...but to me the 'northern irish' are just Ulster English/Scotch peoples.

[LightHouse89]

Ulsterman. :P

This basically. I never knew why do they use the Red Hand as their symbol when that is more of a native irish symbol? You think they would choose a symbol that was Orange related hahaha.

[Grace O'Malley]

This basically. I never knew why do they use the Red Hand as their symbol when that is more of a native irish symbol? You think they would choose a symbol that was Orange related hahaha.

Yes the Red Hand is ancient Irish. I've always been baffled by that as well. I think they are confused. :)

[Elsa]

This basically. I never knew why do they use the Red Hand as their symbol when that is more of a native irish symbol? You think they would choose a symbol that was Orange related hahaha.

Because it's the traditional symbol of Ulster.

[Grace O'Malley]

I sort of dont know what to think of that. Anyway I am confused as to who to side with I have both ancestries...but to me the 'northern irish' are just Ulster English/Scotch peoples.

I think the whole thing has been manipulated by the British powers to divide and conquer. Ulster was always the most rebellious and Gaelic part of Ireland e.g. Red Hugh O'Donnell and the O'Neill's. They were the last part of Ireland to be conquered and they did this by whole scale population replacement of the native population.

The thing is that both Catholics and Protestants in the North of Ireland have some Scottish input so they are basically the same population hating on each other. My father is from North Roscommon and a lot of names are very Scottish even though it is in the Republic. There are loads of Campbells and MacDonalds. My Great Grandmother is a Leland which is from MacClelland and MacLelland. Irish and Scots are very related so they are all mad and all should get their dna tested to realise how stupid the whole thing is.

[Germanic King]

I think the whole thing has been manipulated by the British powers to divide and conquer. Ulster was always the most rebellious and Gaelic part of Ireland e.g. Red Hugh O'Donnell and the O'Neill's. They were the last part of Ireland to be conquered and they did this by whole scale population replacement of the native population.

The thing is that both Catholics and Protestants in the North of Ireland have some Scottish input so they are basically the same population hating on each other. My father is from North Roscommon and a lot of names are very Scottish even though it is in the Republic. There are loads of Campbells and MacDonalds. My Great Grandmother is a Leland which is from MacClelland and MacLelland. Irish and Scots are very related so they are all mad and all should get their dna tested to realise how stupid the whole thing is.

My ancestors were Ulster Clelands....

[LightHouse89]

Because it's the traditional symbol of Ulster.

But they are not necessarily the traditional people from there. I can understand the flag of st. george they use. I mean I think a symbol related to William of Orange would be better or maybe something scottish/english. I just find it strange. I like the symbol dont get me wrong :p

[Germanic King]

People from Northern Ireland have the best of both worlds. They are Irish because of geographic location and British because what it says on their passport :)

[Germanic King]

But they are not necessarily the traditional people from there. I can understand the flag of st. george they use. I mean I think a symbol related to William of Orange would be better or maybe something scottish/english. I just find it strange. I like the symbol dont get me wrong :p

Well, they are FROM Ulster. Ulster is their land so...kind of like with native americans. You're still born and raised in America so you're just as American as anyone from here.

[LightHouse89]

I think the whole thing has been manipulated by the British powers to divide and conquer. Ulster was always the most rebellious and Gaelic part of Ireland e.g. Red Hugh O'Donnell and the O'Neill's. They were the last part of Ireland to be conquered and they did this by whole scale population replacement of the native population.

The thing is that both Catholics and Protestants in the North of Ireland have some Scottish input so they are basically the same population hating on each other. My father is from North Roscommon and a lot of names are very Scottish even though it is in the Republic. There are loads of Campbells and MacDonalds. My Great Grandmother is a Leland which is from MacClelland and MacLelland. Irish and Scots are very related so they are all mad and all should get their dna tested to realise how stupid the whole thing is.

My mother's father was born in Southern Ireland....from the mostly 'O'Sullivan area hahah [A very big clan of people], but what is odd is she has some scottish surnames in her tree. Surnames like Wallace and Cunningham, Graham... on my great grandmother's side. I found it odd when I began looking up the surnames. Then I notice my surname Powers....is Anglo-Irish or from the Normans who took over. The people with more norman or anglo surnames were considered the old English people.... they remained catholics but have mostly English roots from the medieval age. I have many of those types of surnames on my father's side. My dad has also some northern Irish roots, and then English from the mayflower...the Puritans/Pilgrims as we call them here.

There is a statute in Salem with my eldest ancestor's name in the America's. Also one at Plymouth rock in Cape Cod [still a very WASP area in Massachusetts].

[LightHouse89]

Well, they are FROM Ulster. Ulster is their land so...kind of like with native americans. You're still born and raised in America so you're just as American as anyone from here.

:p No New Englander....please get it right man.

[Grace O'Malley]

My ancestors were Ulster Clelands....

They are all versions of the same name. The name Leland in Ireland is associated with Scot's immigration. They could have possibly come from Ulster. My father was from his father's second family and never knew his grandmother's name. He would have been very surprised. He was very much a Republican. He would have been fascinated to know as much about his ancestry as I do. I would love to know more about the name's origins. I've read that the name is originally from Argyle.

[Germanic King]

My mother's father was born in Southern Ireland....from the mostly 'O'Sullivan area hahah [A very big clan of people], but what is odd is she has some scottish surnames in her tree. Surnames like Wallace and Cunningham, Graham... on my great grandmother's side. I found it odd when I began looking up the surnames. Then I notice my surname Powers....is Anglo-Irish or from the Normans who took over. The people with more norman or anglo surnames were considered the old English people.... they remained catholics but have mostly English roots from the medieval age. I have many of those types of surnames on my father's side. My dad has also some northern Irish roots, and then English from the mayflower...the Puritans/Pilgrims as we call them here.

There is a statute in Salem with my eldest ancestor's name in the America's. Also one at Plymouth rock in Cape Cod [still a very WASP area in Massachusetts].

My great great grandmother was a Powers from Ireland....

[Germanic King]

:p No New Englander....please get it right man.

You're still an American national regardless.

[Grace O'Malley]

My mother's father was born in Southern Ireland....from the mostly 'O'Sullivan area hahah [A very big clan of people], but what is odd is she has some scottish surnames in her tree. Surnames like Wallace and Cunningham, Graham... on my great grandmother's side. I found it odd when I began looking up the surnames. Then I notice my surname Powers....is Anglo-Irish or from the Normans who took over. The people with more norman or anglo surnames were considered the old English people.... they remained catholics but have mostly English roots from the medieval age. I have many of those types of surnames on my father's side. My dad has also some northern Irish roots, and then English from the mayflower...the Puritans/Pilgrims as we call them here.

There is a statute in Salem with my eldest ancestor's name in the America's. Also one at Plymouth rock in Cape Cod [still a very WASP area in Massachusetts].

I have Norman in my family tree. My Great Grandmother was a Butler. I've also married into an Irish family with a Norman name. There are so many Norman names in Ireland. The Normans in Ireland actually came from Wales and they also brought along a lot of Welsh soldiers with them. You should look up Power's Court in Co. Wicklow (very beautiful). They might be related to you. :)

[Germanic King]

I have Norman in my family tree. My Great Grandmother was a Butler. I've also married into an Irish family with a Norman name. There are so many Norman names in Ireland. The Normans in Ireland actually came from Wales and they also brought along a lot of Welsh soldiers with them. You should look up Power's Court in Co. Wicklow (very beautiful). They might be related to you. :)

Or me :D

[Grace O'Malley]

Anyway the whole Northern Irish conflict is tragic and crazy. I think it should be mandatory for all those agitators to take a dna test and see how close Catholic and Protestant populations are to each other. If two such close populations can't get on together what hope is there for everyone else?

[Germanic King]

Anyway the whole Northern Irish conflict is tragic and crazy. I think it should be mandatory for all those agitators to take a dna test and see how close Catholic and Protestant populations are to each other. If two such close populations can't get on together what hope is there for everyone else?

I've seen many Orangemen with Gaelic last names....

[Graham]

I have Norman in my family tree. My Great Grandmother was a Butler. I've also married into an Irish family with a Norman name. There are so many Norman names in Ireland. The Normans in Ireland actually came from Wales and they also brought along a lot of Welsh soldiers with them. You should look up Power's Court in Co. Wicklow (very beautiful). They might be related to you. :)

Last high king of ireland was of Norman descent, from up this way. Edward Bruce (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bruce)

Bruce campaign in ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_campaign_in_Ireland)

[Grace O'Malley]

I've seen many Orangemen with Gaelic last names....

Yes this is true. An Northern Irish Prime Minister was a Protestant called O'Neill and then Republicans like Gerry Adams and Bobby Sands had Scottish origins. It's just madness to me. I personally don't care if Northern Ireland wants to remain part of the United Kingdom. There is definitely no need for any violence after the Good Friday Agreement. Everyone should abide by democratic opinion. But I'm still happy that Rory McIlroy has decided to play for the Republic in the next Olympic Games. :) Anyway if the Irish Rugby Team can be all-Ireland and get along why can't the football team be comprised of the Republic and NI?

[Grace O'Malley]

Looking at genetics the Irish are identical to the British. I wonder if they will be able to tease apart dna in the future and separate the populations of the British Isles? Anyway my daughter who has fully Irish ancestry comes out English on dna tests. Luckily she is not interested in dna results as I am because I haven't told her. :)

[Catkin]

Looking at genetics the Irish are identical to the British. I wonder if they will be able to tease apart dna in the future and separate the populations of the British Isles? Anyway my daughter who has fully Irish ancestry comes out English on dna tests. Luckily she is not interested in dna results as I am because I haven't told her. :)

And my dad who I thought was fully English comes out as Irish :p

[Grace O'Malley]

And my dad who I thought was fully English comes out as Irish :p

It's all very strange Catkin. I've had my mother tested on 23andme and I'm awaiting her ancestry results. I'm trying to find out where that French/German comes from. My dad is no longer here to test but luckily I can get my mum tested. Logically I feel it is from her because my dad was from the west. Not too long to go to find out.

[Catkin]

It's all very strange Catkin. I've had my mother tested on 23andme and I'm awaiting her ancestry results. I'm trying to find out where that French/German comes from. My dad is no longer here to test but luckily I can get my mum tested. Logically I feel it is from her because my dad was from the west. Not too long to go to find out.

That will be interesting :). I still need to send off my mum's brother's test. Unfortunately I can't test anyone else on my dad's side as he was an only child and both his parents died many years ago. I'll just have to keep working on tracing his family tree to find out where his more N/W genes came from.

[Grace O'Malley]

That will be interesting :). I still need to send off my mum's brother's test. Unfortunately I can't test anyone else on my dad's side as he was an only child and both his parents died many years ago. I'll just have to keep working on tracing his family tree to find out where his more N/W genes came from.

From looking at people's dna the N/W genes appear to be geographic with people from the North West counties of Ireland scoring very high in British/Irish and also North Atlantic. They are more Paleolithic and score higher Baltic in their Gedmatch results. The North West Irish appear to be very close to Western Scots. The border counties in the Republic also appear to have a high similarity to Scots. The more eastern countries of Ireland appear to be closer to English populations.

[Smaug]

My mother's father was born in Southern Ireland....from the mostly 'O'Sullivan area hahah [A very big clan of people], but what is odd is she has some scottish surnames in her tree. Surnames like Wallace and Cunningham, Graham... on my great grandmother's side. I found it odd when I began looking up the surnames. Then I notice my surname Powers....is Anglo-Irish or from the Normans who took over. The people with more norman or anglo surnames were considered the old English people.... they remained catholics but have mostly English roots from the medieval age. I have many of those types of surnames on my father's side. My dad has also some northern Irish roots, and then English from the mayflower...the Puritans/Pilgrims as we call them here.

There is a statute in Salem with my eldest ancestor's name in the America's. Also one at Plymouth rock in Cape Cod [still a very WASP area in Massachusetts].

Aye, same here. Some Anglo-Norman surnames down my Irish side like Burke or FitzAdelm. Old English Catholics. :)
No worries though, they became more Irish than the Irish themselves.

[LightHouse89]

My great great grandmother was a Powers from Ireland....

Then other surname from Northern Ireland is Pitts.

[LightHouse89]

You're still an American national regardless.

Yes on paper and passport....other than that the word is meaningless. New England is so much cooler. Do you have any Mayflower ancestry?

[LightHouse89]

Looking at genetics the Irish are identical to the British. I wonder if they will be able to tease apart dna in the future and separate the populations of the British Isles? Anyway my daughter who has fully Irish ancestry comes out English on dna tests. Luckily she is not interested in dna results as I am because I haven't told her. :)

Well The English still have Saxon/Danish or more Germanic roots than other British groups or Irish people but then again by now all of this Germanic backgrounds would have spread throughout the British Islands if you think about it.

[LightHouse89]

And my dad who I thought was fully English comes out as Irish :p

My dad hates Germans....he hated my mother for having German ancestry....turns out he has German ancestors from the 1700s..... German Palatine ancestors.... who were moved here by the British Empire to live, and in turn service to the British Monarchy. They fought against the Rebels...my Dad was shocked. I laughed at him though and said seems you are a bit Hun too then.

[Grace O'Malley]

Aye, same here. Some Anglo-Norman surnames down my Irish side like Burke or FitzAdelm. Old English Catholics. :)
No worries though, they became more Irish than the Irish themselves.

My married name is Redmond. My father-in-law didn't believe that it was a Norman name. He is definitely "Níos Gaelaí ná na Gaeil féin". He wasn't too happy about being told his name is Norman. Some of the older Irish are very clannish and don't like to think that they aren't 100% Irish.

You know a lot about Irish history Uhtred and Britain as well. I'm guessing it is because British/Irish ancestry in Brazil isn't that common so it made you more interested in your ancestry.

[Smaug]

My married name is Redmond. My father-in-law didn't believe that it was a Norman name. He is definitely "Níos Gaelaí ná na Gaeil féin". He wasn't too happy about being told his name is Norman. Some of the older Irish are very clannish and don't like to think that they aren't 100% Irish.

You know a lot about Irish history Uhtred and Britain as well. I'm guessing it is because British/Irish ancestry in Brazil isn't that common so it made you more interested in your ancestry.

Exactly, I am very interested in British/Irish history because that's not a common ancestry here. I also have indigenous Gaelic names from Ireland like O'Brien and MacNeil. I believe the latter to be originally O'Neil, and my paddy ancestors changed it to the Scottish MacNeil when they settled in Scotland to avoid anti-Irish feelings. They were from Omagh. Many O'Neils up in Ulster based on what I've seen.

[Grace O'Malley]

Exactly, I am very interested in British/Irish history because that's not a common ancestry here. I also have indigenous Gaelic names from Ireland like O'Brien and MacNeil. I believe the latter to be originally O'Neil, and my paddy ancestors changed it to the Scottish MacNeil when they settled in Scotland to avoid anti-Irish feelings. They were from Omagh. Many O'Neils up in Ulster based on what I've seen.

On y-dna I'm descended from the original O'Neill that is Niall of the Nine Hostages. My brother is awaiting further results from FTDNA on his y chromosome. We know already he is M222 Niall's haplotype. I'm the only one in my family interested in this dna stuff. Should know more in about 5 - 7 weeks and whether we are more related to the Connachta.

I think the MacNeills are from Barra in Scotland (would have to look up to know what area in Scotland exactly). Anyway a lot of M222 is also in Scotland. The Irish also have the Mc/Mac names but the O prefix is definitely Irish whereas Mc/Mac could be either from Ireland or Scotland. The Scots never adopted the O which is from the same origin as Mac. Mac means son of and O means descendant (grandson). The O was most probably not in use when Gaelic went to Scotland but appeared in Ireland at a later date.

[Smaug]

On y-dna I'm descended from the original O'Neill that is Niall of the Nine Hostages. My brother is awaiting further results from FTDNA on his y chromosome. We know already he is M222 Niall's haplotype. I'm the only one in my family interested in this dna stuff. Should know more in about 5 - 7 weeks and whether we are more related to the Connachta.

I think the MacNeills are from Barra in Scotland (would have to look up to know what area in Scotland exactly). Anyway a lot of M222 is also in Scotland. The Irish also have the Mc/Mac names but the O prefix is definitely Irish whereas Mc/Mac could be either from Ireland or Scotland. The Scots never adopted the O which is from the same origin as Mac. Mac means son of and O means descendant (grandson). The O was most probably not in use when Gaelic went to Scotland but appeared in Ireland at a later date.

A descendant of Niall of the Nine Hostages? You are badass! Yes, MacNeils are from Barra, but my ancestors were not, they were Catholics from Ulster, so I don't don't know if it was originally O'Neill, changed to MacNeil to avoid anti-Irish feelings that the Scots had against the Catholic Irish migrants. I'm an O'Brien, what could mean I am a descendant of Brian Boru? :P

[Grace O'Malley]

A descendant of Niall of the Nine Hostages? You are badass! Yes, MacNeils are from Barra, but my ancestors were not, they were Catholics from Ulster, so I don't don't know if it was originally O'Neill, changed to MacNeil to avoid anti-Irish feelings that the Scots had agains the Irish Catholics. I'm an O'Brien, what could mean I am a descendant of Brian Boru? :P

I think all the Irish are descendants of all these men. My mother's family is most likely to be descendants from Brian Boru because they are right in his neck of the woods. O'Brien's definitely are. Brian was known as the Emperor of the Irish and he drove the Norse out of Ireland.

[Rædwald]

Someday people will realize that political borders and genetics have nothing to do with one another.

[Graham]

Changing surnames seems a bit far fetched for that reason. There was anti-Catholicism, that mainly started in the 1900's when the depression hit & unemployment rose, before there wasn't much bad feeling.

I mean so many irish people came to live here, what would be the point? There are quite a few o'Neill's in Glasgow.

[Fear Fiain]

I think the whole thing has been manipulated by the British powers to divide and conquer. Ulster was always the most rebellious and Gaelic part of Ireland e.g. Red Hugh O'Donnell and the O'Neill's. They were the last part of Ireland to be conquered and they did this by whole scale population replacement of the native population.

The thing is that both Catholics and Protestants in the North of Ireland have some Scottish input so they are basically the same population hating on each other. My father is from North Roscommon and a lot of names are very Scottish even though it is in the Republic. There are loads of Campbells and MacDonalds. My Great Grandmother is a Leland which is from MacClelland and MacLelland. Irish and Scots are very related so they are all mad and all should get their dna tested to realise how stupid the whole thing is.

You have a very good point about DNA. hopefully scotland breaks free and the stubborn orangemen get their identity shaken a bit.
I was even surprised JUST HOW MUCH more wild and rebelliousness had always been attached to the north, as I really got into Irish history and culture when I was considering moving there as a fast track out of this wretched zionist empire known as America and into the EU ... Irish Americans already have a bad enough name and I'd not want to make it worse. Anyhow, the north was the direction in which the pale was slowest to expand, it was the birthplace of republicanism, through Irish presbyterians, rather than catholics, conflicting with the anglican imperial state. And to this day there are people trying to build a gaeltacht in belfast.


here's a cool documentary on local history of Armagh, that reaches back 300 years to make it's case.
http://youtu.be/zfuKQ014jf8?t=4m42s
i

[Germanic King]

Yes on paper and passport....other than that the word is meaningless. New England is so much cooler. Do you have any Mayflower ancestry?

Yes, I do.

[♥ Lily ♥]

I just think it's terrible that NI hasn't been given a referendum on independence, yet Scotland gets one.

Think of those lives which have been lost in NI, all the bombs and bloodshed.... yet they're not allowed a referendum vote for independence. *o*

If I was a citizen of Northern Ireland and an Irish republican there, I'd be fuming. (Not all people living in NI are Scottish or English immigrants supporting the UK vote - there's Irish Republicans living in NI region too).

Paul McCartney and other English singers have made songs called "Give Ireland back to the Irish."

A nationwide survey in Britain found that a majority of people here support a united Eire.

I read that if Scotland leaves, we'll be called the United Kingdom of England, Wales and NI.... and I don't want this forced UK union of nations on us, (nor the forced EU union), nor do I want bomb attacks happening from angry Irish people who aren't given a referendum vote.

The government doesn't care about loss of lives though. Why is it the Union Government members lets Scotland have a right to independence but not NI, England or Wales?

Scottish and English protestants were moved into NI to secure the UK vote there.... look at Rev Ian Paisley... he's a Scottish descent loyalist of the Queen who insists in interviews that he's not Scottish, but Irish, but neither the Irish nor the Scots want him. And a lot of English people don't care to defend NI loyalists in Eire. If people want to be 'British', they should leave NI.

NI belongs to Ireland. I really hope they get independence next and Wales too, and then England can be independent as well and have our own government and parliament for once.

It's the political elite in Scotland (the Gordon Brown, Tony Blair, Darling and Cameron types), the pro-UK government in NI (like Ian Paisley), and the political elite in Wales and England who support and force this union government... not the ordinary people whose voices are never heard in this.

[LightHouse89]

Someday people will realize that political borders and genetics have nothing to do with one another.

I dont think most old worlders will ever believe that. I would like to but I just do not think they will ever believe it. The truth is I have more in common with a European than any other group/race on this earth.

[Black Wolf]

My maternal grandmother was born in Northern Ireland and came from a Protestant family. They all called themselves Irish though not ''Northern Irish''. They identified as Irish Protestants. I do know that at least some of my relatives over there still are Unionists.

[Neon Knight]

If an area exists for long enough then it will eventually form an identitiy of its own and I think that is what is beginning to happen with Northern Ireland. I wish it would leave the UK then Great Britain could have a simpler and stronger identitiy.

http://photos.geni.com/p13/1b/57/90/f8/5344483b1f84bd85/eng1606_medium.jpg

[Fear Fiain]

I think all the Irish are descendants of all these men. My mother's family is most likely to be descendants from Brian Boru because they are right in his neck of the woods. O'Brien's definitely are. Brian was known as the Emperor of the Irish and he drove the Norse out of Ireland.
I'm basically a norse-gael. and there's some more scando mixed in in America.
Still, my dream girl is a brown haired blue eyed gaelic speaker ... god I want one of th

[alfieb]

I agree. It's none of my business but I think a united Ireland with a new flag and maybe Belfast as a capital is the ideal solution, since Dublin and Cork are too Catholic.

And before anyone makes a joke about the union jack being their new flag, I meant a united independent Ireland. Use the President's flag with the harp or something.

[Special K]

Well I personally would like to see all of Ireland and Britain brought under one flag, which would mean no such thing as Northern Irish, they would be no different to the people in the South of Ireland.

But I don't even know if there is a term that could be used to cover the people from Britain and Ireland. Northern Irish people are often called British, even though the name of our country clearly says that Britain and Northern Ireland are different. Then again some people have called the Irish "west Britons" in the past and the two different Celtic peoples are similar so maybe they could be brought under the same general term.

[Grace O'Malley]

I thought this was interesting. Two girls from Derry, Northern Ireland change uniforms. One is Catholic and one Protestant. When the girls were having a bit of banter I found it difficult to understand what they were saying but it seems people are leaving some of their sectarian ways behind them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQF3oz6L8PQ

http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/12/12/1418408021465/757ee8a3-69af-40aa-bb20-ac9c0c67037d-620x372.jpeg

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/dec/14/across-divide-northern-ireland-film

[Graham]

They sound so much like young West Coasters here.

[Loki]

Northern Irish are different from Irish. Many Northern Irish would never refer to themselves as Irish, so you got it wrong Fear Fiain.

[Loki]

I agree. It's none of my business but I think a united Ireland with a new flag and maybe Belfast as a capital is the ideal solution, since Dublin and Cork are too Catholic.

And before anyone makes a joke about the union jack being their new flag, I meant a united independent Ireland. Use the President's flag with the harp or something.

Isn't it a bit strange (contradictory) that you want a united Ireland, but an independent Sicily?

[Grace O'Malley]

They sound so much like young West Coasters here.

I had to really concentrate to understand them but when they were talking among themselves I could only make out the odd word here and there. :) They were making fun of a young Northern Irish guy's accent on an Australian program called The Project the other night and I must admit I couldn't understand a word he was saying. I can't find the clip at the moment but if I do I'll post it.

They recruit quite a few Gaelic players to play in the AFL here and this Pearce Hanley is from Co Mayo. They Aussies always find the Irish accent humourous (the buggers :)) but I find this guy quite easy to understand.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gExJDe7Ylg

[Graham]

Man, he doesn't even speak in slang & are still struggling! Reminds of the Yanks. lol

Iit was part teenage girl high pitched talk in that green blazer talk. OMG OMG talking not breathing type. It is universal. :P

[Grace O'Malley]

Northern Irish are different from Irish. Many Northern Irish would never refer to themselves as Irish, so you got it wrong Fear Fiain.

They refer to themselves as Irish here Loki. You tell an Aussie that you're Northern Irish and they will just say "so you're a Paddy then" :). I don't think a lot of people overseas knows all the idiosyncrasies of "The Isles" or really care that much.

[Loki]

They refer to themselves as Irish here Loki. You tell an Aussie that you're Northern Irish and they will just say "so you're a Paddy then" :). I don't think a lot of people overseas knows all the idiosyncrasies of "The Isles" of really care that much.

In Australia? They're Aussies then. They probably just say so to avoid confusion. But Protestant NI don't see themselves as Irish, trust me. Rather British.

Or else, the ones you spoke to were Catholic Northern Irelanders.

[Grace O'Malley]

In Australia? They're Aussies then. They probably just say so to avoid confusion. But Protestant NI don't see themselves as Irish, trust me. Rather British.

Or else, the ones you spoke to were Catholic Northern Irelanders.

No I'm talking of Protestant Northern Irish. When they move away they see who they have more in common with. A lot of Protestant Northern Irish get along very well with the Southern Irish and quite a few of them joined The Irish Club. One of the Presidents of the Irish Club in Perth was a Protestant Irishman so there you go.

[Loki]

No I'm talking of Protestant Northern Irish. When they move away they see who they have more in common with. A lot of Protestant Northern Irish get along very well with the Southern Irish and quite a few of them joined The Irish Club. One of the Presidents of the Irish Club in Perth was a Protestant Irishman so there you go.

I'm not saying they don't get along. And in a new country like Australia they will obviously have more in common with each other than with Aussies.

[Grace O'Malley]

I'm not saying they don't get along. And in a new country like Australia they will obviously have more in common with each other than with Aussies.

Yes this is true. Anyway you can imagine how much flak you will get from Aussies if you start that Catholic/Protestant rubbish here.:) You have to be pretty thick skinned because a lot of the banter especially with males is slagging each other. Anyway if you look at the clip at the beginning of this thread you will find the same thing with some of the young Northern Irish in England. They realise they have more in common with other Northern Irish (whether Catholic or Protestant) than differences.

Edit: Sorry the clip isn't in this thread but I've seen it on the Apricity.

[Loki]

The point I'm trying to make is that the Protestant Northern Irish are mainly descended from Scots and English people, and they are acutely aware of that.

[Grace O'Malley]

The point I'm trying to make is that the Protestant Northern Irish are mainly descended from Scots and English people, and they are acutely aware of that.

They make too much fuss about that. Gerry Adams is also descended from Scots for example. Also a lot of Ireland's national heros had various amounts of English/Scots or other blood. The Pearse brothers had an English father but were executed in 1916. They have been on Irish soil now for over 400 years and I'm sure plenty of them have Irish blood also. I don't expect them to join an United Ireland but they need to stop the divisions on something so petty. How many people in the Republic are pure Irish?

[Loki]

They make too much fuss about that. Gerry Adams is also descended from Scots for example. Also a lot of Ireland's national heros had various amounts of English/Scots or other blood. The Pearse brothers had an English father but were executed in 1916. They have been on Irish soil now for over 400 years and I'm sure plenty of them have Irish blood also. I don't expect them to join an United Ireland but they need to stop the divisions on something so petty. How many people in the Republic are pure Irish?

What do you mean? It's not for you to decide. They are proud of their origins, and rightfully so. This doesn't mean they hate the Irish or don't get along with them. There are stark differences between Protestant and Catholic culture. Why force them to integrate? They want to maintain their own culture.

[Grace O'Malley]

What do you mean? It's not for you to decide. They are proud of their origins, and rightfully so. This doesn't mean they hate the Irish or don't get along with them. There are stark differences between Protestant and Catholic culture. Why force them to integrate? They want to maintain their own culture.

I'm not deciding anything just giving my opinion. You have very strong opinions on the subject for a South African.

[Graham]

yeah sometimes in the news I see names of the IRA that aren't irish even like Murray or Campbell. Even an IRA member was arrested a few months back, has the same surname as my mums side.

[Loki]

I'm not deciding anything just giving my opinion. You have very strong opinions on the subject for a South African.

It's just how I see it, I have strong opinions on many world matters :)

[RighNick]

They're from the island of Ireland so they have every right to call themselves Irish. I wouldn't necessarily interpret that as them making making any sort of political statement or identifying with the Republic of Ireland, especially if they're outside of the region. People often ask where you're from when they're trying to make small talk and a lot of times it's easier to simplify instead of going into detail. If someone asks where I'm from in passing, I'll usually just say I'm British or I'm Australian because it's much easier than saying that I'm Bermudian and explaining to someone where that even is and why I'm not black :lol: That doesn't mean that I don't think of myself as Bermudian and I think it's much the same for people from Northern Ireland who live abroad.

[♥ Lily ♥]

I feel sad and embarrassed about the way Irish people were bullied and treated very badly under the British Empire, and my family like the Irish people and culture a lot and I have relatives and cousins there.

But I have a friend from County Kerry in the Republic of Ireland who I met in London. He is a Catholic, but he likes both the Protestant and Catholic churches, and he has all these big flags of the Queen and big Union Jack flags across the walls in his home. Something I would never have in my own home. He thinks the Queen is perfect. He keeps sending me collectors coins and pictures of Kate and William in the post, even though I'm not interested in the monarchy, and he tells me off on the telephone and tells me I should respect the Queen more.

I'm English and I'm not a monarchist and I feel that Ireland should be returned to the Irish and yet my Irish friend from the Republic of Eire thinks the opposite!

It's kind of humorous and funny, but it goes to show that just because a person is born in a certain piece of land, it doesn't necessarily indicate their political views.

I have another Irish friend from Drogheda who lives in London who can't stand the British monarchy or the union, but he loves living in England and he said he likes the ordinary English people.

[Loki]

English and Irish people get along well in England in general. We're a bit suspicious of the Scots though ;)

[Roy]

Are people from Northern Ireland the same population which as there was before it being given to United Kingdom?


I feel sad and embarrassed about the way Irish people were bullied and treated very badly under the British Empire, and my family like the Irish people and culture a lot and I have relatives and cousins there.

But I have a friend from County Kerry in the Republic of Ireland who I met in London. He is a Catholic, but he likes both the Protestant and Catholic churches, and he has all these big flags of the Queen and big Union Jack flags across the walls in his home. Something I would never have in my own home. He thinks the Queen is perfect. He keeps sending me collectors coins and pictures of Kate and William in the post, even though I'm not interested in the monarchy, and he tells me off on the telephone and tells me I should respect the Queen more.

I'm English and I'm not a monarchist and I feel that Ireland should be returned to the Irish and yet my Irish friend from the Republic of Eire thinks the opposite!

It's kind of humorous and funny, but it goes to show that just because a person is born in a certain piece of land, it doesn't necessarily indicate their political views.

I have another Irish friend from Drogheda who lives in London who can't stand the British monarchy or the union, but he loves living in England and he said he likes the ordinary English people.


Maybe your Irish friend is simply jealous that they don't have own Queen and etc. ? ;)

[Graham]

English and Irish people get along well in England in general. We're a bit suspicious of the Scots though ;)

Just how we like it. :dev

[Grace O'Malley]

It's just how I see it, I have strong opinions on many world matters :)

Well I myself have a Great Grandmother with a Scots name and where my father was from there are loads of Scots names like McDonald, Campbell etc so you can see what I mean about people's ancestry. On one side of the border it is used to separate people and on the other side people just look on everyone the same.

[Loki]

Are people from Northern Ireland the same population which as there was before it being given to United Kingdom?



Yes, but around 400 years ago it was settled by Presbyterians from Scotland and England.

[Loki]

Well I myself have a Great Grandmother with a Scots name and where my father was from there are loads of Scots names like McDonald, Campbell etc so you can see what I mean about people's ancestry. On one side of the border it is used to separate people and on the other side people just look on everyone the same.

The whole British Isles are quite mixed through intermarriage with each other, especially in the cities.

[Grace O'Malley]

I feel sad and embarrassed about the way Irish people were bullied and treated very badly under the British Empire, and my family like the Irish people and culture a lot and I have relatives and cousins there.

But I have a friend from County Kerry in the Republic of Ireland who I met in London. He is a Catholic, but he likes both the Protestant and Catholic churches, and he has all these big flags of the Queen and big Union Jack flags across the walls in his home. Something I would never have in my own home. He thinks the Queen is perfect. He keeps sending me collectors coins and pictures of Kate and William in the post, even though I'm not interested in the monarchy, and he tells me off on the telephone and tells me I should respect the Queen more.

I'm English and I'm not a monarchist and I feel that Ireland should be returned to the Irish and yet my Irish friend from the Republic of Eire thinks the opposite!

It's kind of humorous and funny, but it goes to show that just because a person is born in a certain piece of land, it doesn't necessarily indicate their political views.

I have another Irish friend from Drogheda who lives in London who can't stand the British monarchy or the union, but he loves living in England and he said he likes the ordinary English people.

Lots of Irish people admire the Queen believe it or not. Both my Aunt and mother think she handles herself very well and she respect her as a lady. They aren't monarchists though but just respect how the Queen has handled herself. I think most reasonable people can look at these sorts of things impartially and give credit to where it is due.

[Grace O'Malley]

Are people from Northern Ireland the same population which as there was before it being given to United Kingdom?




Maybe your Irish friend is simply jealous that they don't have own Queen and etc. ? ;)

It's a bit like how the Americans like the Royal Family. People treat them as celebrities.

[Grace O'Malley]

[QUOTE=Roys;3221256]Are people from Northern Ireland the same population which as there was before it being given to United Kingdom?

No they are called Planters. It was a deliberate policy to put in loyal British subjects to subdue what was at the time the most rebellious region of Ireland. The Catholics were pushed off their lands and the land was given to Scots and English.

[Graham]

Yes, but around 400 years ago it was settled by Presbyterians from Scotland and England.

Church of Ireland is mostly the English. Presbyterian is the Scots, like Novella. Many came closer to 300 years during the 'ill years' also along with the older border reivers.

[Loki]

Presbyterian is the Scots, like Novella.

Yes, they even speak the Scots language there:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/ScotsLanguageMap.png

[Grace O'Malley]

Yes, they even speak the Scots language there:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/ScotsLanguageMap.png

That even goes into Donegal which is in the Irish Republic.

[Catkin]

My friend's Northern Irish but her ancestry's Scottish from the time of the Plantations I think. She reckons she's probably got very little actual Irish blood because the immigrant families in her area tended to marry within each other. She has a Border Reivers surname. I've noticed people at work refer to her as 'Irish' rather than Northern Irish. I'm not sure what she feels about it herself, I'll have to ask.

[Baldur]

Just how we like it. :dev
:D
http://satwcomic.com/art/part-of-the-gang.jpg

[♥ Lily ♥]

Maybe your Irish friend is simply jealous that they don't have own Queen and etc. ? ;)

:D :dunno:

[♥ Lily ♥]

It's a bit like how the Americans like the Royal Family. People treat them as celebrities.

I watched news broadcasts during the time Kate and William were getting married, and the news reports were showing people in the US as being more excited about the Royal Wedding than British people who were aware of the costs for the taxpayer for their wedding during times of economic cutbacks.

I think that people outside of the UK may view monarchies as being glamourous in the way they see them in their media, whereas people who actually live under monarchy systems are more aware of the reality that it isn't glamourous for many people.

[Katariina]

I simply refer to myself as part Northern Irish not because I hate Ireland, but just because Northern Ireland is where most of my Irish ancestors were located. Of course, when people ask, I usually just say I'm 1/4 Irish. Northern Ireland is where my Irish roots were located, but my blood is simply Irish.

[Roy]

My friend's Northern Irish but her ancestry's Scottish from the time of the Plantations I think. She reckons she's probably got very little actual Irish blood because the immigrant families in her area tended to marry within each other. She has a Border Reivers surname. I've noticed people at work refer to her as 'Irish' rather than Northern Irish. I'm not sure what she feels about it herself, I'll have to ask.

Well If I am not wrong many Scottish people could drive their ancestry own ancestry back to Ireland either way from times when Gaelic speakers from Ireland started settling Scotland.

[Gooding]

How interesting! Part of my ancestry includes people with Scottish names like Baird, Robertson and Lawson coming from Northern Ireland and settling in North Carolina and Virginia before going on to Kentucky and Tennessee. They were fervent Protestants, even as many of us are today.

[Gooding]

Well If I am not wrong many Scottish people could drive their ancestry own ancestry back to Ireland either way from times when Gaelic speakers from Ireland started settling Scotland.
That's certainly true. One of my cousins, a McDonald in the male line, shows descent from Irish Celts who settled in Western Scotland, the area around Glenmoriston. That, I suppose, is a mountain away from the heartland of Glengarry territory and just on Grant land.

[Graham]

How interesting! Part of my ancestry includes people with Scottish names like Baird, Robertson and Lawson coming from Northern Ireland and settling in North Carolina and Virginia before going on to Kentucky and Tennessee. They were fervent Protestants, even as many of us are today.

The irony of it, is that your Presbyterians were a core part of the American revolution, whereas the Irish protestants of today are the complete opposite..

[Gooding]

The irony of it, is that your Presbyterians were a core part of the American revolution, whereas the Irish protestants of today are the complete opposite..
Quite right! In fact, I'm pretty sure that our Scots- Irish settlers had anything but pleasant experiences with the British government and were quite eager to take up arms to keep themselves from getting thrown off what they considered their land again. I understand that it was hard to make a living in late 1600s Ulster if you weren't Anglican and that the Presbyterians were hard put to make an honest living. Considering how the Scottish settlers in Ulster did everything they could to stick to their Protestant faith ( the Siege of Derry comes to mind) and support King William, their treatment at the hands of their landlords must have felt like a body- blow.

[alfieb]

Isn't it a bit strange (contradictory) that you want a united Ireland, but an independent Sicily?

I support a united Cyprus, too.

TNRC is Turkish imperialism/colonialism. Northern Ireland and Gibraltar are British colonialism/imperialism.

Sicily is an island with 10,000 years of its own human history. I'm not advocating splitting it into multiple countries, merely gradually making its emergence back to independence, as Italian unification has been a disaster for Sicily.

[Daco Celtic]

They are Scottish Protestants. Nothing wrong with that. There is a good book on Scots-Irish called "Born Fighting" which essentially says they are not Irish from a cultural standpoint.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_Fighting