“Out of Africa” Theory Officially Debunked?

[Hong Key]

http://www.redicecreations.com/ul_img/31128outofafrica1.jpg

“Out of Africa” Theory Officially Debunked
http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=31129

Re-Examining the "Out of Africa" Theory and the Origin of Europeoids (Caucasoids) in Light of DNA Genealogy
http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?paperID=19566#.U-XvVBZ97wI

Scientific Paper
http://file.scirp.org/Html/19566.html

[Insuperable]

What do other people in scientific community say about this?

[The King, I am]

What do other people in scientific community say about this?

They dont want to comment on it lol




for obvious reasons

[Methmatician]

We won't know for years to come because the study needs to be replicated many times by different people and they need to all get the same result. This could take decades.

[Methmatician]

What do other people in scientific community say about this?
The most widely accepted theory among scientists is that all humans descended from the L3 line which originated in Africa.

[Hong Key]

The most widely accepted theory among scientists is that all humans descended from the L3 line which originated in Africa.


The most widely accepted theory among scientists is that all humans descended from the L3 line which originated in Africa.

Has L3 been replicated many times by different people and they all got the same result?

[Methmatician]

Has L3 been replicated many times by different people and they all got the same result?
I don't know. I'm not that interested in genetics. I just know that the most widely accepted theory is the 'out of Africa' theory. Btw, Scientific Research Publishing is a dubious journal so I wouldn't get my hopes up about this study.

[Proto-Shaman]

Klyosov is the man :thumb001:

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Here's my big list of stuff that smashes out of africa. Unfortunately I mislinked some of them to the wrong study, but most go to the correct ones.

Archaeology says there's continuity in asia and europe for a million years or more.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?126184-Out-of-africa-theory-debunked-again


Evidence that dozens of hominids contributed to human DNA. All african populations show evidence of migration into africa. No population shows evidence of migration out of africa.
"We detect likely West Eurasian gene flow into the ancestors of Yoruba West Africans within the last ten thousand years, which indirectly contributed a small amount of Neandertal ancestry to Yoruba."

"These results mean that we have not identified any sub-Saharan African sample that we are confident has no evidence of back-to-Africa migration. Our best candidate at present is the Dinka but it is possible that with a phased genome or large sample sizes we would detect evidence of non-African ancestry in this population as well."

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/12/a-neandertal-from-altai-mountains.html


Oldest mtdna divide for humans in EUROPE.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/12/400-thousand-year-old-human-mtdna-from.html


OoA was supposed to happen 30k-50k years ago but we have genetically sequenced very modern east asians in beijing at 40k years ago.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/01/ancient-dna-from-tianyuan-cave.html


Upper Paleolithic fossils go TO african from arabia, not the other way around. The paper's author himself talks in detail about driving around and digging and finding more modern tools towards arabia. That culture probably is influenced/spawned from aurignacian, even further off in europe or iran.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/12/arabian-origin-of-upper-paleolithic-in.html

In same vein, nubian complex (often pointed to as africa) is obviously exotic to africa.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/07/nubian-complex-site-from-central-arabia.html

Here we date someone's remains at 42k+ years. This is related to above item, IE we are seeing intrusion into africa at the same time we are supposed to see big migrations out of africa.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2013-09-23T23:25:00%2B03:00&max-results=16&start=32&by-date=false

Dogs were domesticated in Europe. By the dates given, by neanderthals. Note that only europids really like dogs, too.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/11/european-origin-of-domesticated-dogs.html


This alone is enough to kill out of africa. Last video shows that pygmies in africa intermixed with an archaic hominid that has no genes outside of africa 100K years ago. This means that rhodiensiensis in south africa is nothing at all to do with human evolution, and it also means that modern humans did not arrive in africa until 100k years ago or so. It also shows that neanderthal are at the root for many cladal gene structures, just not the ones for y-dna and mtdna. This is impossible for any OoA scenario.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/08/the-origin-of-us.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvoiPUHfOXI


North Africans...came from Iberia.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/07/origin-of-iberomaurusian.html
And some genetic evidence to back it up.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/12/recent-origin-of-north-african.html

Interestingly, data supports san coming TO africa as easily as FROM africa.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/06/60-50-thousand-coastal-migration-to.html

And combined with this which shows lots of intermixing with eurasia, it's confirmed they had eurasian admixture before they got to africa (this is from populations with no exposure outside their little tribes until very recently, who remain pure).
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/07/west-eurasian-admixture-in-khoe-san-via.html

Forested Nkongho-Mbo pygmie region source of y-dna A00, so called oldest human y-dna. Which is also a hotspot for r1b admixture from europe. 9/13 A00 were actually found in france in seeming non-africans, but it's been labeled as african anyhow.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/07/new-a00-project.html

Modern humans have been in china have been dated to around 100k years ago, making any recent out of africa hypothesis implausible.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/07/81-100-thousand-year-old-modern-humans.html

Here is typical OoA enthusiast. Accuses someone of racism and falsifying data, and then is caught falsifying data himself. Is not a real scientist at all, just an idiot with a political agenda.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/06/interesting-commentary-on-mortongould.html

As well as having much bigger brains than people today, neanderthals could talk.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/12/neandertals-could-talk.html

Here's another one that, all on its own, debunks out of africa. As early as 12k years ago, fossils in sub saharan africa show no signs of modernity, and are much less modern than much older fossils in east africa and outside of africa. The "failed out of africa" skulls from middle east 90k years ago also show striking similarity to upper paleolithic european skulls (and metrically are a hybrid between neanderthal and modern europeans). So the further from africa you get the more like modern humans the skulls look!
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/09/12-6ka-humans-with-archaic-features.html

30-40k BC neanderthal-modern hybrid found, genetically sequenced. Since we have actually found one, obviously it happened all the time and wasn't a one time thing. This also happened in italy, destroying the silly theories that it was some one time event in levant during a mythical out of africa mass migration.
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/first-love-child-human-neanderthal-believed-found-1C9127823?franchiseSlug=sciencemain

the study of modern populations has revealed evidence for both archaic African, and -more recently and surprisingly- even a little archaic Eurasian ancestry in virtually all Sub-Saharan Africans. Populations from one of the presumed cradles of H. sapiens (Eastern Africa) are now conclusively known to be recent mixtures of West Eurasians, and even the Bushmen of southern Africa, the subject of so many TV documentaries as an exemplum of the ur-Humans did not escape this admixture.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2014/01/happy-new-year-2014.html

The only ape fossil ever found to have a human finger-to-thumbpad grip is in EUROPE. Feet were also very humanlike. Many supposed upright walkers from africa are very doubtful. Yet we never hear about finds like this in the news.
http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/2014/01/ancient-italian-ape-had-human-like.html

Missing link found...in Germany, 50 million years ago.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/05/090519-missing-link-found.html




links to my posts:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?104709-Why-all-the-candidates-for-human-chimp-ancestors-aren-t-hominids-but-homidaints&p=2160679#post2160679

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?103388-Neanderthals-had-longer-childhoods-than-some-quot-modern-quot-human-populations

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?108389-San-are-not-oldest-people-in-world-Nor-do-they-originate-in-africa

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?118559-Europeans-are-genetically-the-most-diverse

[Hong Key]

I don't know. I'm not that interested in genetics. I just know that the most widely accepted theory is the 'out of Africa' theory. Btw, Scientific Research Publishing is a dubious journal so I wouldn't get my hopes up about this study.

Just asking the same questions you are asking, that's all.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I don't know. I'm not that interested in genetics. I just know that the most widely accepted theory is the 'out of Africa' theory. Btw, Scientific Research Publishing is a dubious journal so I wouldn't get my hopes up about this study.

It's just the most widely propagandized. It didn't even exist until the 90s and has been disproven by neanderthal dna and many other things that don't fit.

[Methmatician]

It's just the most widely propagandized. It didn't even exist until the 90s and has been disproven by neanderthal dna and many other things that don't fit.
The resident geneticist who cites blogs has spoken :notworth:

[Prisoner Of Ice]

The resident geneticist who cites blogs has spoken :notworth:

Sorry I'm a lot smarter than you, I know that upsets people.

Every time an out of africa paper comes out it's shortly debunked and the whole theory changes. I would think for something so supposedly set in stone you would have some kind of consensus reached or at least some evidence, but it's not the case.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

More papers come out supporting multiregionalism than out of africa. More papers coming out supporting neanderthals in aurignacion and even in more advanced culture, than them being due to 'modern' humans. But in any article we get blasted that this is accepted 100% true fact. Sorry, it's just propaganda, and basically there's just no way it's true. Even the out of africa founder says it would have to have been 100k+ years ago. Archaeology says one million plus years ago at the minimum.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Anyway, yes you are right. The proto-europeans went across to america and beame the "mound builders" and precursors to clovis, a civilization that eventually collapsed but was huge in its day. We know this because of the R* y-dna and because of the autosomal "amerindian" input in europeans which turns out to be solutreans. There's also solutrean artifacts found in clovis mounds now, which sews the whole thing up. Most amazing thing ever, and yet still all we hear about is the gaylord out of africa theory.

[Proto-Shaman]

Anyway, yes you are right. The proto-europeans went across to america and beame the "mound builders" ...
mhhhh :chin: reminds me of R1b Turks :strokebeard:

[Prisoner Of Ice]

mhhhh :chin: reminds me of R1b Turks :strokebeard:

Turkomen (actual turks that spawned the language) are mostly r1b if I remember. All the indo-european peoples are originally r1b. Turkey today is not all that turkish though (and really never was).

[Proto-Shaman]

Turkomen (actual turks that spawned the language) are mostly r1b if I remember. All the indo-european peoples are originally r1b. Turkey today is not all that turkish though (and really never was).
So you are in disagreement with mainstream which associates IE R1a with mounds?

[Kale]

Well the prevailing opinion in genetics is as simple as this...

Divergent clades = old population
Ancestral versions of genes = old population

The group that has the most of those is Africans. So they automatically assume Africans are the oldest population.

What they don't consider is population replacement.

Fun facts:
- Malta Boy. YDNA R*. It's a bit derived, so almost an R3. Where is R3 today? O that's right, we don't have one. He was also mtDNA U*, in central Siberia. The only U there now appears to be more recent European varieties.
- To date, in Western Europe, all pre-neolithic mtdna that has been fully resolved, has been U5b. Frequency there today? About 8%.
- Mesolithic Sweden. 3/5 remains were y-dna I2. Frequency today? 5%. Actually one of the remains was I2a1 in Gotland. I2a reaches 0% there today.
- La Brana, mesolithic Spain. ydna C1a2. It's been found in only a handful of modern Europeans, mostly in the Atlantic fringes. C1a2's closest relative? Japan. So all of those lineages between Western Europe and Japan have essentially vanished.
- Neolithic Ukraine, 3/11 specimens are mtdna C. Hg C is under 5% in Ukraine today.
- Y-Dna E makes up over 90% of many African genepools. It was only supposed to have formed 50,000 or so years ago. Some of these same African populations actually display only trace elements of Y-A or B, the supposed ancient African lineages.
- The most divergent mtDNA from a modern human specimen was found in a paleolithic Australian. Out of Australia anyone?

[Annihilus]

I am out of this world;)

This whole question boils down to how old humans are ie what do you consider human.

[Artek]

https://scontent-b-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10487330_263569147172761_7267262925545848743_n.png



Enjoy

[Gaston]

Then Chinese, now Russians. :picard1:

[templumForasticus]

http://www.nairaland.com/attachments/194510_khoi1_jpgc8c3916f512146e0f17f9984df03fa51

[Alessio]

I hope the day comes when we all find out that all humans were originally from Italy..:thumb001: The best stayed and went to The Netherlands and some got lost on the way (good examples of that are to be find in ''West-Africa'' and all what is outside of Europe) :cool:

[Alessio]

The reason genetic data supported the ''out of Africa'' theory, was because the genetic distances between all peoples of the world are the biggest in comparison to those of SSA decent + the distances within the African continent are also very big, what would support the ''out of Africa'' theory..So they say..

I don't know, is it me? For some reason I don't want to think ''Adam & Eve'' came from East Africa..

[Nurzat]

here the full article

http://file.scirp.org/Html/19566.html

[Prisoner Of Ice]

The reason genetic data supported the ''out of Africa'' theory, was because the genetic distances between all peoples of the world are the biggest in comparison to those of SSA decent + the distances within the African continent are also very big, what would support the ''out of Africa'' theory..So they say..

It's actually other way around. Africa is a dead end nothing has come out of for a long time.



I don't know, is it me? For some reason I don't want to think ''Adam & Eve'' came from East Africa..

Even if it's true it doesn't mean whites descended from black people or were ever any more related than they are now. I thought it was a nice feel good story when I first learned if it, but now I realize it's not only wrong but it is just retarded propaganda.

[Kale]

Anyone got any studies on Neanderthal vs Modern Eurasian noncoding DNA? If Modern Eurasians noncoding is more similar to Neanderthal than African, that kind of blows OOA away in one swoop. No whole genome similarity is not what I'm looking for, that includes coding regions, which are expected to be selected for and against and sway similarities or lack thereof.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

https://scontent-b-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10487330_263569147172761_7267262925545848743_n.png



Enjoy

Cromagnon found to have N mtdna like finns, interesting.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Then Chinese, now Russians. :picard1:

It used to be everyone, because it's true. Nowadays truththink is prohibited.

[Loki]

:picard2:

[Peikko]

Cromagnon found to have N mtdna like finns, interesting.

Do you mean Y-DNA?

[Insuperable]

Do you mean Y-DNA?

No, mtdna. Cromagnons from Italy were identified to have that mtdna. I think they weren't able to conclude is it F or N because of lack of data. Both of possible types are too broad categories to mean much.

[Peikko]

No, mtdna. Cromagnons from Italy were identified to have that mtdna. I think they weren't able to conclude is it F or N because of lack of data. Both of possible types are too broad categories to mean much.

Is there a study? I haven't bumped into it yet.

[Insuperable]

Is there a study? I haven't bumped into it yet.

http://www.pnas.org/content/100/11/6593.long
http://www.pnas.org/content/100/11/6593.long
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cro-Magnon

I mentioned in a post above haplogroup F. I think I mixed something up so neglect that.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Actually, if it's F then it pretty much confirms my idea that cromagnon types are just descendents of peking man.

[Gustave H]

I love being Russian. :coffee:

[Gaston]

It used to be everyone, because it's true. Nowadays truththink is prohibited.

No, nowadays, talking out of your own ass is tolerated and sometimes even accepted.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

No, nowadays, talking out of your own ass is tolerated and sometimes even accepted.

There's no consensus on out of africa and never was, that is wholly made up by the media. There's 10 papers supporting multiregionalism for every out of africa paper (all two of them).

[Sacrificed Ram]

Because of this my country buy missiles from Russia, they are very precise and always comply their objetive. What this scientist proved is 100% accurate and correct, into the objective of such study. Like russian missiles were very pricise in their objective, diferrent of Israeli missiles used by Georgia that failed to shut down russian bomber aircrafts.
http://www.aereo.jor.br/wp-content/uploads//2013/09/PANTSIR-S1.jpg

What they proved is (meanwhile) a true, still was not found A or B haplogroup in their ancestral state, really A and B aren't a haplogroup but families of haplogroups. What exists currently individually are A* and B* (being, meanwhile, all current Y-DNA A*).

The ancestral Y-DNA (the "A") still was not found in a living invidual (or fossil, or arqueological vestige) in their original state just because like the others Y-DNA out from Africa, they also have the right to evolve and diverge.

What occurs in Africa is that some of these A* and B* branchs they have, diverged much close to the (hypothetical) root than other out Africa Y-DNA haplogroup (they are in more high points of the "tree"). Thus if you are close to the root, probably the root is close with you...

And I'm still impressed with this people stressed with just 0,000001% of our DNA content while we share around 98% with this african guy:
http://www.earthtimes.org/newsimage/chimpanzees-choose-hand-clasps-cultural-preference_29812.jpg
We need to develope an INTO AFRICA theory for them too...

But I'm still with doubts what they are trying to prove with OOA. The origin of humans? It depends what you consider human.

Like Napoleon and Hitler, many will fall into russian traps...

Russian "La Bamba" on then!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOB0cOwdSPA

[Prisoner Of Ice]

It's just race propaganda along with some attempt to prove african hominids prove evolution.

[Sacrificed Ram]

It's just race propaganda along with some attempt to prove african hominids prove evolution.

Like I said previously for a hugarian-brazilian guy into potuguese section, science is changing and evolving everytime, isn't a solid and static rock for you put your faith. What is true today can be lie tomorrow and what is lie today can be true tomorrow.

Really faith is belief without prove, sometimes faith is even to negate the proves.

But I don't fear some liquids:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBoP7k6ySGw

[Alessio]

Interesting topics usually get ignored by most users...

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Interesting topics usually get ignored by most users...

They can't debunk the things I say, but still don't like the conclusion.

[swagcore]

the "out of africa theory" meaning the theory that hominids originated in africa is 100% true, the pseudoscientific misunderstanding that all humans are just differently pigmented african hominids is false.

[Sacrificed Ram]

Someday someone will claim the "Out America Theory", because some lemur fossils there...