No significant Near Eastern admixture in Southeastern Europe since Neolithic times

[Arch Hades]

"In historical times, there have been three major invasions of South Eastern Europe from the direction of the Near East but no evidence of major migratory events and gene flow. The Persians dominated South Western Asia in the fifth century BC:They established satrapies in Asia Minor and invaded Europe, but they were stopped by the Greeks (32). The Arabs attempted multiple invasions during the seventh and eighth centuries AD,but they were stopped by the Byzantines (33). An Arab tribe originating from Andalusia established in Crete a pirate state in the ninth century, but they were exterminated by the Byzantines 140 y later, and they left no traces of settlement in the island other than the name of their seat of power in the town of Chandax (33). The Turks invaded Asia Minor starting the 11th century and occupied the Balkans in the subsequent three centuries, but any Turks and converts to Islam left from Greek territories with the population exchanges that took place in the 20th century (34); the origin of the Turkish tribes was the central Asia. Seljuk Turks settled in Anatolia in the 12th century AD;however, the Anatolian Cappadocians we included in this study belong to the population that have kept the religion and the language of the pre-Seljuk Cappadocians and, therefore, most likely carry the genetic makeup of the ancient Anatolians. The only important gene flows from the Near East to Europe must have occurred in prehistoric times and, as genetic evidence suggests, the most prominent migrations should have occurred during the Neolithic."

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2Zs453hLh8g/U5l5ZsgF0ZI/AAAAAAAAAzE/cOh0JBbVP2s/s500/paschou2014-fig1.png
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ojG5YJptKWE/U5l5U6ta03I/AAAAAAAAAy0/HBsXnzm8inI/s1600/paschou2014-fig4.png

SOURCE : Paschou et al. "Maritime route of colonization of Europe". PNAS, 2014.

Link (http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/06/04/1320811111.abstract) PDF (http://medicine.yale.edu/labs/kidd/www/536.pdf)

[Sikeliot]

Dodecanese, Crete, Sicily, and Peloponnese seem to be fairly similar today to in ancient times then? I guess that shoots down the idea of Phoenician admixture, even though I would not agree with the analysis here in entirety that these populations received no recent Near Eastern input.

[StonyArabia]

Dodecanese, Crete, Sicily, and Peloponnese seem to be fairly similar today to in ancient times then? I guess that shoots down the idea of Phoenician admixture, even though I would not agree with the analysis here in entirety that these populations received no recent Near Eastern input.

Sicily has recent Arabian admixture, due to the Arab conquest, hence why some Sicilians are shifted toward Arabian Bedouins, and from time to time Arabid types due appear in the island. Also many of the Arabs came from the region of Nejd who used Tunisia as launching pad to invade Sicily.

[Arch Hades]

Dodecanese, Crete, Sicily, and Peloponnese seem to be fairly similar today to in ancient times then? I guess that shoots down the idea of Phoenician admixture, even though I would not agree with the analysis here in entirety that these populations received no recent Near Eastern input.



It says no "important" and "major" geneflow from the near East to Southeastern Europe has occured since prehistoric times. Minimal admixture is still a possibility and likely in some areas.

[Arch Hades]

Sicily has recent Arabian admixture, due to the Arab conquest, hence why some Sicilians are shifted toward Arabian Bedouins, and from time to time Arabid types due appear in the island. Also many of the Arabs came from the region of Nejd who used Tunisia as launching pad to invade Sicily.

yes, Sicilians are about 6% paternally Arab/North African...but that's not very significant. That means they're 94% not on the paternal side. On the Maternal side it's likely 99% or more non Arab/North African.

[Sikeliot]

This also supports that Dodecanese are more or less an Anatolian population, which makes sense given their location next to Turkey.

[Ulla]

yes, Sicilians are about 6% paternally Arab/North African...but that's not very significant. That means they're 94% not on the paternal side. On the Maternal side it's likely 99% or more non Arab/North African.

I'm wondering how many Arab/North Africans have "Sicilian-Greek" ancestry like Jawhar al-Siqilli

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jawhar_al-Siqilli

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Smells like a giant load of crap, the massive slave trade of Rome is the first thing that springs to mind, with siciliy not far behind.

[Arch Hades]

Smells like a giant load of crap, the massive slave trade of Rome is the first thing that springs to mind, with siciliy not far behind.

Well there you go everyone.

Melonhead's bold declarations have just refuted genetic science. :D

[Ulla]

Smells like a giant load of crap, the massive slave trade of Rome is the first thing that springs to mind, with siciliy not far behind.

Personally, I don't trust that much in Genetics reaserches related to populations, but these are the credits

Department of Molecular Biology and Genetics, Democritus University of Thrace, 68100 Alexandroupolis, Greece; bDepartment of Computer Science,
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY 12180; cDepartment of Hematology, George Papanicolaou Hospital, 57010 Thessaloniki, Greece; dDepartment of
Forensic Medicine, University of Crete, Heraklion, 711 13 Crete, Greece; eUnità di Ricerca P. Cutino, Ospedali Riuniti Villa Sofia-Cervello, 90146 Palermo, Italy;
fInstitute of Molecular Genetics and Genetic Engineering, University of Belgrade, 11010 Belgrade, Serbia; gDepartments of Medicine and Genome Sciences,
University of Washington, Seattle, WA 98195; and hDepartment of Genetics, Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven, CT 06511

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Personally, I don't trust that much in Genetics reaserches related to populations, but these are the credits

Department of Molecular Biology and Genetics, Democritus University of Thrace, 68100 Alexandroupolis, Greece; bDepartment of Computer Science,
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY 12180; cDepartment of Hematology, George Papanicolaou Hospital, 57010 Thessaloniki, Greece; dDepartment of
Forensic Medicine, University of Crete, Heraklion, 711 13 Crete, Greece; eUnità di Ricerca P. Cutino, Ospedali Riuniti Villa Sofia-Cervello, 90146 Palermo, Italy;
fInstitute of Molecular Genetics and Genetic Engineering, University of Belgrade, 11010 Belgrade, Serbia; gDepartments of Medicine and Genome Sciences,
University of Washington, Seattle, WA 98195; and hDepartment of Genetics, Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven, CT 06511

Almost all greek. Like I said...this is an amazing fantasy.

[Sikeliot]

I have one cousin who easily could pass for Saudi, so it makes me wonder how he could acquire such a look if not from admixture in the last 1000 years.

[Arch Hades]

Almost all greek. Like I said...this is an amazing fantasy.

Well it passed peer review and was edited at by scientists at the university of Yale, Washington, and San Francisco as well. The original blood samples appear to have been taken from Greek scientists though yes.

[Ulla]

Almost all greek. Like I said...this is an amazing fantasy.

I repeat, I trust vey little to Genetics reasearches related to populations, but the fact that are almost all Greek doesn't mean that is more fantasy than all American team.

[Sikeliot]

Like the Sicilians, the SE Laconia sample shows a slight shift toward North Africa.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Well it passed peer review and was edited at by scientists at the university of Yale, Washington, and San Francisco as well. The original blood samples appear to have been taken from Greek scientists though yes.

Peer review doesn't mean it's correct, they just do some basic checks to their method and their data. The conclusion is another story.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I repeat, I trust vey little to Genetics reasearches related to populations, but the fact that are almost all Greek doesn't mean that is more fantasy than all American team.

They are highly biased on the subject, and all you have to do is turn on a youtube of modern greece to see why.

Other more sane papers have said more along the lines "half of greece is recent admixture from outside europe", from sources who don't care about the feelings of highly nationalistic greeks.

The mentions of history are also biased. For example, vlachs are about 50% slave DNA from roman time. So since all the balkans is full of vlachs, that alone disproves the hypothesis!

Greeks have a very fanciful view of reality that goes like this.

1. True greeks look like people in the modern country of greece, and have almost complete continuity to ancient greece.
2. Albanians are newcomers who are nothing to do with balkans. (in spite of having y-dna that seems to come from epirotes)
3. Invasion by slavs made macedonia and albania and other places more white than greece. (except these same elements are all through greece too).
4. The e1b and j2e y-dna are the originals for greeks. (there's so many things wrong with this, it could fill a book but for starters albanians are also e1b yet supposed to be invaders)
5. Modern greece today is same as ancient greece (in spite of ancient greece being all of the balkans!). Greece is no more to do with ancient greece than any part of the balkans, and nothing to do with macedonia which was racially different and spoke a different language!

Greek textbooks are full of propaganda, greek people are generally impossible to argue with and insanely biased and even claim things like Irish people were originally dark and swarthy, and colonized by the sea (presumably from greeks) and greece is the center of europe. Of course greece is more like periphery of europe. They also claim to have even invented the word europe, of course it's actually a phoenician word, though.

So like I said, complete and utter BS and the points I brought up already falsify their hypothesis.

[Arch Hades]

Peer review doesn't mean it's correct, they just do some basic checks to their method and their data. The conclusion is another story.

It wouldn't be in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences if it was just nationalistic nonsense..it was a collective assignment among scientists from Greece, Italy, Serbia, and the United States.

Yep, and their method and their data reveals there hasnt been much geneflow between the Near East and Southeastern Europe since after the Neolithic period.

So anyway, since you don't trust something if it's not completely made by Northern European scientists if you have a peer reviewered genetics article from a bunch of Northern European geneticists on this subject of geneflow and timescale then you're more than welcome to show it to us.

But since you just proclaimed it all to be nonsense based on your divine knowledge we should just believe you, right? lol

[Sakis]

They are highly biased on the subject, and all you have to do is turn on a youtube of modern greece to see why.

Other more sane papers have said more along the lines "half of greece is recent admixture from outside europe", from sources who don't care about the feelings of highly nationalistic greeks.

The mentions of history are also biased. For example, vlachs are about 50% slave DNA from roman time. So since all the balkans is full of vlachs, that alone disproves the hypothesis!

Greeks have a very fanciful view of reality that goes like this.

1. True greeks look like people in the modern country of greece, and have almost complete continuity to ancient greece.
2. Albanians are newcomers who are nothing to do with balkans. (in spite of having y-dna that seems to come from epirotes)
3. Invasion by slavs made macedonia and albania and other places more white than greece. (except these same elements are all through greece too).
4. The e1b and j2e y-dna are the originals for greeks. (there's so many things wrong with this, it could fill a book but for starters albanians are also e1b yet supposed to be invaders)
5. Modern greece today is same as ancient greece (in spite of ancient greece being all of the balkans!). Greece is no more to do with ancient greece than any part of the balkans, and nothing to do with macedonia which was racially different and spoke a different language!

Greek textbooks are full of propaganda, greek people are generally impossible to argue with and insanely biased and even claim things like Irish people were originally dark and swarthy, and colonized by the sea (presumably from greeks) and greece is the center of europe. Of course greece is more like periphery of europe. They also claim to have even invented the word europe, of course it's actually a phoenician word, though.

So like I said, complete and utter BS and the points I brought up already falsify their hypothesis.

Carleton Coon "the modern inhabitants of Greece itself differ surprisingly little from their classical predecessors".
Angel Lawrence “Racial continuity in Greece is striking.”

Were they crypto Greeks or what?

[Arch Hades]

Other more sane papers have said more along the lines "half of greece is recent admixture from outside europe", from sources who don't care about the feelings of highly nationalistic greeks.

OK, now's your chance to paste these "sane papers".



1. True greeks look like people in the modern country of greece, and have almost complete continuity to ancient greece.

There are non Greek physical anthropologists, like J Lawrence Angel..who unlike you, actually came to Greece and measured thousands of Greek skulls and based on the scientific method were able to come to the conclusion of the continuity between ancient and modern Greeks. This was before the advent of genetics, which only enforces the idea that they were correct.


4. The e1b and j2e y-dna are the originals for greeks. (there's so many things wrong with this, it could fill a book but for starters albanians are also e1b yet supposed to be invaders)

Actually Geneticists have stated that a number of times....at least if by original you mean classical. In fact, Geneticists wanted to test the hypothesis that Greeks colonized parts of Italy starting around 750BC. They decided that the best way is to test the populations in the relevant regions of Italy for "Greek signature lineages". What are these lineages? J and E1b1b (E-M78)

"In particular, the presence of a modal haplotype coming from the southern Balkan Peninsula and of its one-step derivates associated to E3b1a2-V13, supports a common genetic heritage between Sicilians and Greeks. The estimate of Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor is about 2380 years before present, which broadly agrees with the archaeological traces of the Greek classic era."


SOURCE : European Journal of Human Genetics advance online publication 6 August 2008; doi: 10.1038/ejhg.2008.120 Differential Greek and northern African migrations to Sicily are supported by genetic evidence from the Y chromosome

Link (www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v17/n1/full/ejhg2008120a.html)





"Southern Italy (Apulia and Calabria) contains sites of the early Neolithic period (Whitehouse 1968), but we know from history that these regions were subsequently colonized by the Greeks (Peloponnesians). To test the relative contribution of Greek colonists versus putative earlier Neolithic settlers, an admixture analysis (Bertorelle and Excoffier 1998)was performed, using E-M78 and J-M172(xM12) as signatures of Greek and Anatolian lineages, respectively"

SOURCE : Semino et al. (2004) Origin, Diffusion, and Differentiation of Y-Chromosome Haplogroups E and J: Inferences on the Neolithization of Europe and Later Migratory Events in the Mediterranean Area. Am J Hum Genet

Link (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181965/)



And please don't tell me the American Journal of Human Genetics or the European Journal of Human Genetics are all controlled by Greek Nationalist conspirators.

[Faklon]

I believe Melonhead is too smart for Yale.

[albosomething]

There you go everyone.

Melonhead's bold declarations have just refuted genetic science. :D


his infinite IQ can refute everything

[Arch Hades]

There was a study showing that modern Greek Cretans maternally cluster with ancient Minoan skeletal remains very well.

[cally]

Even in south slavic populations, the east med component tends to be higher than the atlantic (west) med one.
Late Neolithic farmers plot with southern tuscans (similar to modern southern Balkans)

[Hithaeglir]

Dodecanese, Crete, Sicily, and Peloponnese seem to be fairly similar today to in ancient times then? I guess that shoots down the idea of Phoenician admixture, even though I would not agree with the analysis here in entirety that these populations received no recent Near Eastern input.

How on earth there was Phoenician admixture?

[Hithaeglir]

They are highly biased on the subject, and all you have to do is turn on a youtube of modern greece to see why.

Other more sane papers have said more along the lines "half of greece is recent admixture from outside europe", from sources who don't care about the feelings of highly nationalistic greeks.

The mentions of history are also biased. For example, vlachs are about 50% slave DNA from roman time. So since all the balkans is full of vlachs, that alone disproves the hypothesis!

Greeks have a very fanciful view of reality that goes like this.

1. True greeks look like people in the modern country of greece, and have almost complete continuity to ancient greece.
2. Albanians are newcomers who are nothing to do with balkans. (in spite of having y-dna that seems to come from epirotes)
3. Invasion by slavs made macedonia and albania and other places more white than greece. (except these same elements are all through greece too).
4. The e1b and j2e y-dna are the originals for greeks. (there's so many things wrong with this, it could fill a book but for starters albanians are also e1b yet supposed to be invaders)
5. Modern greece today is same as ancient greece (in spite of ancient greece being all of the balkans!). Greece is no more to do with ancient greece than any part of the balkans, and nothing to do with macedonia which was racially different and spoke a different language!

Greek textbooks are full of propaganda, greek people are generally impossible to argue with and insanely biased and even claim things like Irish people were originally dark and swarthy, and colonized by the sea (presumably from greeks) and greece is the center of europe. Of course greece is more like periphery of europe. They also claim to have even invented the word europe, of course it's actually a phoenician word, though.

So like I said, complete and utter BS and the points I brought up already falsify their hypothesis.

You must have the same IQ with the average golden dawn member.Especially the part about Irish people being invaded by sea was the most hilarious one.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

You must have the same IQ with the average golden dawn member.Especially the part about Irish people being invaded by sea was the most hilarious one.

155+

[Scholarios]

Well it passed peer review and was edited at by scientists at the university of Yale, Washington, and San Francisco as well. The original blood samples appear to have been taken from Greek scientists though yes.

But that doesn't mesh with Celto-Atatlantean " destiny of civilization " hypothesis. Wtf

[Scholarios]

They are highly biased on the subject, and all you have to do is turn on a youtube of modern greece to see why.

Other more sane papers have said more along the lines "half of greece is recent admixture from outside europe", from sources who don't care about the feelings of highly nationalistic greeks.

The mentions of history are also biased. For example, vlachs are about 50% slave DNA from roman time. So since all the balkans is full of vlachs, that alone disproves the hypothesis!

Greeks have a very fanciful view of reality that goes like this.

1. True greeks look like people in the modern country of greece, and have almost complete continuity to ancient greece.
2. Albanians are newcomers who are nothing to do with balkans. (in spite of having y-dna that seems to come from epirotes)
3. Invasion by slavs made macedonia and albania and other places more white than greece. (except these same elements are all through greece too).
4. The e1b and j2e y-dna are the originals for greeks. (there's so many things wrong with this, it could fill a book but for starters albanians are also e1b yet supposed to be invaders)
5. Modern greece today is same as ancient greece (in spite of ancient greece being all of the balkans!). Greece is no more to do with ancient greece than any part of the balkans, and nothing to do with macedonia which was racially different and spoke a different language!

Greek textbooks are full of propaganda, greek people are generally impossible to argue with and insanely biased and even claim things like Irish people were originally dark and swarthy, and colonized by the sea (presumably from greeks) and greece is the center of europe. Of course greece is more like periphery of europe. They also claim to have even invented the word europe, of course it's actually a phoenician word, though.

So like I said, complete and utter BS and the points I brought up already falsify their hypothesis.


No one here says anything like that except Hellenas maybe. You're just the other extreme with the ridiculous redhead spartans, supposed forgeries by western archaeologists( though they're the ones who tried to paint ancient Greece as some Proto-Nordic civilization) the crap about roman slaves ( even though half of slaves would be from Germania, Gaul, Scythia)

If Albanians got the ev13 it's evident that it was in ancient Greece, just like j2. The high diversity alone should tell you that.

[Insuperable]

Does that imply there is some? 1000 years old or 4000 years old, does it really matter when SE Europeans are still arabolevantosouthafrican mongrels compared to real Europeans?

[Arch Hades]

You must have the same IQ with the average golden dawn member.Especially the part about Irish people being invaded by sea was the most hilarious one.


What's wrong with Golden Dawn?

[Arch Hades]

Does that imply there is some? 1000 years old or 4000 years old, does it really matter when SE Europeans are still arabolevantosouthafrican mongrels compared to real Europeans?

They can't be mongrels with those groups because Arabs didnt exist in hte Neolithic.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Does that imply there is some? 1000 years old or 4000 years old, does it really matter when SE Europeans are still arabolevantosouthafrican mongrels compared to real Europeans?

lol

Basically it's more lame attempt to claim alexander and sparta etc.

[Insuperable]

They can't be mongrels with those groups because Arabs didnt exist in hte Neolithic.

They didn't exist allright, but people similar to them probably contributed to SE European genome (among others like those who brought East Med and higher West Asian) making them mongrels compared to real Europeans.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

No one here says anything like that except Hellenas maybe.

Do you read this site?


You're just the other extreme with the ridiculous redhead spartans, supposed forgeries by western archaeologists( though they're the ones who tried to paint ancient Greece as some Proto-Nordic civilization) the crap about roman slaves ( even though half of slaves would be from Germania, Gaul, Scythia)


Slaves came from all over. I pointed out the forgeries and postdated browned up artwork many times, it's a fact.

[Arch Hades]

Southeastern Europeans do share more of their ancestry with Near Eastern groups than Northern Europeans. In terms of genetic distance Southeastern Europeans will always cluster closer to the Near East than Northern Europeans.

Of course, this doesnt mean Northern European don't share any.


Northern Europeans are actually biologically closer to sub-saharan Africans than East Asians are....this does mean Northern Euros share more ancestral affinity with Africans than East Asians do. Whether you would call Northern Europeans "Mongrels" because of this is up to you....I wouldn't though.

[Scholarios]

Do you read this site?

Slaves came from all over. I pointed out the forgeries and postdated browned up artwork many times, it's a fact.

It's a simplification- not all artifacts depicting phenotypes in the bronze age are forgeries. ( akrotiri for instance). What a happy coincidence that Iron Age spartans left zero anthropomorphic artifacts. Completely sophomoric and extremely fallacious.

[Sikeliot]

What Greeks do have that is recent, that they need to own up to, is Slavic ancestry. And it shows phenotypically.

[Arch Hades]

Do you read this site?

Slaves came from all over. I pointed out the forgeries and postdated browned up artwork many times, it's a fact.

Facts must be established, so what biological fact do present about these slaves?

[Insuperable]

Southeastern Europeans do share more of their ancestry with Near Eastern groups than Northern Europeans. In terms of genetic distance Southeastern Europeans will always cluster closer to the Near East than Northern Europeans.

So you admit it? LooL thinking you are White American. WASP's in extended meaning are true White Americans.

[Arch Hades]

They didn't exist allright, but people similar to them probably contributed to SE European genome (among others like those who brought East Med and higher West Asian) making them mongrels compared to real Europeans.

They contributed to all European genomes....just moreso the south.

[Scholarios]

Facts must be established, so what biological fact do present about these slaves?

He can't own up to the fact that northern haplogroups were brought by invaders in the early Middle Ages- he thinks ancient hellenes were i2a even though it's like zero in south Italy and Sicily, except in gargano where Croats setlled.

In other words, his views aren't even worth time to argue over . But it's slow at work today...

[Arch Hades]

So you admit it? LooL thinking you are White American. WASP's in extended meaning are true White Americans.

Sure I admit it. It's a genetic fact. Why would I care about that?

And everyone else predominately WASP or not calls me a White American.

[Insuperable]

They contributed to all European genomes....just moreso the south.

NW Europeans, northern Europeans, Balts, most of Slavs (except the southern ones)... don't show any SW Asian, and usually East med or West Asian which in any case is many times smaller than in Southern Europeans with the emphasis on SE Europe. That is where the line can be drawn on who is white and SE Europeans step over it by far.

[Insuperable]

Deleted joking :laugh:

[Arch Hades]

NW Europeans, northern Europeans, Balts, most of Slavs (except the southern ones)... don't show any SW Asian, and usually East med or West Asian which in any case is many times smaller than in Southern Europeans with the emphasis on SE Europe. That is where the line can be drawn on who is white and SE Europeans step over it by far.


What do you mean "don't show any SW Asian"?

And your line of Whiteness is subjective. Because even if you draw the line there..you'd have some of your "Whites" clustering closer to "nonWhites" than they would other "Whites".

[Guapo]

NW Europeans, northern Europeans, Balts, most of Slavs (except the southern ones)... don't show any SW Asian, and usually East med or West Asian which in any case is many times smaller than in Southern Europeans with the emphasis on SE Europe. That is where the line can be drawn on who is white and SE Europeans step over it by far.
i dont have SW asian wtf

[Yehiel]

i dont have SW asian wtf

yeah you do

[Guapo]

yeah you do

0.2% broadly east asian

[Insuperable]

What do you mean "don't show any SW Asian"?

And your line of Whiteness is subjective. Because even if you draw the line there..you'd have some of your "Whites" clustering closer to "nonWhites" than they would other "Whites".

Sure, but you won't find mongrel types in those countries as in quantities all over southern Europe.


i dont have SW asian wtf

You do and it is not low.

[Yehiel]

0.2% broadly east asian

gedmatch

[Arch Hades]

Sure, but you won't mongrel types in those countries as in quantities all over southern Europe.

You mean if a Southern European mixes with a Northern European you'll get a mongrel between a Southern European and a Northern European? Well no shit, lol.

[Insuperable]

You mean if a Southern European mixes with a Northern European you'll get a mongrel between a Southern European and a Northern European? Well no shit, lol.

Mixing with southern Europeans will give a higher chance for mongrel offsprings.

[Arch Hades]

Mixing with southern Europeans will give a higher chance for mongrel offsprings.

No, if a Northern European mixes with a Southern European there's not a "high chance" of a mongrel offspring...it's a mongrel offspring 100% of the time...it's half Northern European, half Southern European.

[Arch Hades]

So Solin are Croatians White?

[Insuperable]

No, if a Northern European mixes with a Southern European there's not a "high chance" of a mongrel offspring...it's a mongrel offspring 100% of the time...it's half Northern European, half Southern European.

But southern Europeans are mongrels. You get mongrels by mixing with mongrels.

[Arch Hades]

But southern Europeans are mongrels. You get mongrels by mixing with mongrels.

They arent mongrels any more than NOrthern Europeans are.

[Insuperable]

So Solin are Croatians White?

No.

[Guapo]

Sure, but you won't find mongrel types in those countries as in quantities all over southern Europe.



You do and it is not low.




EUtest:

Population
SOUTH_BALTIC 23.29%
EAST_EURO 11.77%
NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 15.24%
ATLANTIC 11.92%
WEST_MED 11.11%
EAST_MED 16.63%
WEST_ASIAN 6.31%
MIDDLE_EASTERN 2.89%
SOUTH_ASIAN 0.09%
EAST_AFRICAN 0.12%
EAST_ASIAN -
SIBERIAN 0.63%
WEST_AFRICAN -

K9

Population
South Asian -
Caucasus 15.52%
Southwest Asian 7.09%
North Amerindian + Arctic -
Siberian 0.91%
Mediterranean 21.21%
East Asian 0.84%
West African 0.23%
North European 54.22%

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Admixture Proportions


Population

North_Sea 16.67%
Atlantic 14.07%
Baltic 23.38%
Eastern_Euro 10.26%
West_Med 9.33%
West_Asian 7.14%
East_Med 14.75%
Red_Sea 3.34%
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.16%
Siberian 0.91%
Amerindian -

[Insuperable]

They arent mongrels any more than NOrthern Europeans are.

Like I have written they are. Northen Europeans are by far the purest ones and while some non-southern European countries may deviate from them they don't produce arabolevantonorthafrican influenced mongrels.

[Insuperable]

EUtest:

Population
SOUTH_BALTIC 23.29%
EAST_EURO 11.77%
NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 15.24%
ATLANTIC 11.92%
WEST_MED 11.11%
EAST_MED 16.63%
WEST_ASIAN 6.31%
MIDDLE_EASTERN 2.89%
SOUTH_ASIAN 0.09%
EAST_AFRICAN 0.12%
EAST_ASIAN -
SIBERIAN 0.63%
WEST_AFRICAN -

K9

Population
South Asian -
Caucasus 15.52%
Southwest Asian 7.09%
North Amerindian + Arctic -
Siberian 0.91%
Mediterranean 21.21%
East Asian 0.84%
West African 0.23%
North European 54.22%

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Admixture Proportions


Population

North_Sea 16.67%
Atlantic 14.07%
Baltic 23.38%
Eastern_Euro 10.26%
West_Med 9.33%
West_Asian 7.14%
East_Med 14.75%
Red_Sea 3.34%
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.16%
Siberian 0.91%
Amerindian -

Are you blind or something? SW Asian = South West Asian. 7.09%. That is way too much.

[Arch Hades]

Like I have written they are. Northen Europeans are by far the purest ones and while some non-southern European countries may deviate from them they don't produce arabolevantonorthafrican influenced mongrels.

Northern Europeans are closer to East Asians than southern Europeans are, so I could easily say Southern European are pure and Northern Europeans are East Asian influenced mongrels.


All you're doing is coming with the presumption that "Northern Europeans" are the standard for pure, and that anything that deviats away from that is a mongrel...well I could do that too and say Southern Eruopeans are pure, and anything that deviates away from them is mongrel influenced making Northern Europeans the mongrels.

[Guapo]

Are you blind or something? SW Asian = South West Asian. 7.09%. That is way too much.

Way too much for what?

[Insuperable]

Northern Europeans are closer to East Asians than southern Europeans are, so I could easily say Southern European are pure and Northern Europeans are East Asian influenced mongrels.

That drift is a shared ancestry because of people like Mal'ta boy, a component which is very much present in southern Europeans (10+%) only it is several percentages lower. On the other hand southern European arabolevantonorthafrican ancestry is not shared but a real one and very much recent one compared to that in any case.


All you're doing is coming with the presumption that "Northern Europeans" are the standard for pure, and that anything that deviats away from that is a mongrel...well I could do that too and say Southern Eruopeans are pure, and anything that deviates away from them is mongrel influenced making Northern Europeans the mongrels.

No, you can't as explained plus they are not the who look arabolevantonorthafrican.

[Insuperable]

Way too much for what?

For Europeans proper.

[Guapo]

For Europeans proper.

xD

[Arch Hades]

That drift is a shared ancestry because of people like Mal'ta boy, a component which is very much present in southern Europeans (10+%) only it is several percentages lower. On the other hand southern European arabolevantonorthafrican ancestry is not shared but a real one and very much recent one compared to that.

Well don't give me nonsense about North Europeans being pure when they certainly arent, since purity is a misnomer.


And as my OP shows...there's been minimal geneflow into Southern Europeans since the Neolithic times.

[Insuperable]

Well don't give me nonsense about North Europeans being pure when they certainly arent, since purity is a misnomer.

Not that I disagree, but as explained why the line has to be drawn somewhere.

[Insuperable]

xD I love making people butthurt xD We will continue. Good night guys.

[Guapo]

So Solin are Croatians White?

He's just trollin your ass

[Arch Hades]

]
Not that I disagree, but as explained why the line has to be drawn somewhere.

There's no line for puriity since all genepools overlap. On a global scale any sort of concepts of purity are laughable and wrong.
http://tinypic.com/eiky05.gif

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9053/journalpgen0020215g003.png


Where are the pure Northern Europeans? lol they're clustering intermediate between many groups of people.

[Hellenas]

On the other hand southern European arabolevantonorthafrican ancestry

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Hunnen.jpg

http://news.nen.com.cn/72351236656988160/20051027/479476.jpg

http://dawn666blacksun.angelfire.com/koreanischer_soldat.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOD7xTMUxI/AAAAAAAAHIE/QAEMcSDXc3Q/s1600/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-japanese-fighters.jpg

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2010/8/2/1280761040788/Mongolian-neo-Nazi-group--006.jpg

The Nordo-Mongols found again their forefathers, lol, you are not even pure caucasoids.

http://forex-group.net/img_post/image-bb56c4ce792d0ba9318ad196e7556f14.jpg

http://italiaetnica.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/aplogruppo-n1c1.gif?w=584

[Guapo]

Slavs are biggest mongrels, yes.

[Arch Hades]

http://italiaetnica.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/aplogruppo-n1c1.gif?w=584


LOL, yeah NortherneasternEuropeans are pure when they have a genetic Y signature that arose in East Asia that Southern Europeans very distinctly lack.


So again, I could just say southern Europeans are pure, and Northern Europeans are the mongrels since they have genetic overlap with East Asians.


"Purity" = stupid and propaganda.


All there is is clusters..genetic clusters which can be established. And Where you put the center of the cluster is up to you and is subjective, and where you draw the line is subjective.

[Guapo]

http://italiaetnica.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/aplogruppo-n1c1.gif?w=584


LOL, yeah NortherneasternEuropeans are pure when they have a genetic Y signature that arose in East Asia that Southern Europeans very distinctly lack.


So again, I could just say southern Europeans are pure, and Northern Europeans are the mongrels since they have genetic overlap with East Asians.


"Purity" = stupid and propaganda.


All there is is clusters..genetic clusters which can be established. And Where you put the center of the cluster is up to you and is subjective, and where you draw the line is subjective.
I like your forum but the black background is a bit too much

[Arch Hades]

Yeah well my forum is down currently..i havent even logged in well over a year. Maybe i'll fix it if I get some time. It's kind of an abandoned project right now.

[Gaston]

There is Bronze Age ANE admixture in Europe instead, which is probably linked to Indo-European. ANE is closer to East Asian than to Basal Eurasian (ancient Near East).

[Smeagol]

Smells like a giant load of crap, the massive slave trade of Rome is the first thing that springs to mind, with siciliy not far behind.

I agree, There's no way all those slaves didn't affect Southeastern Europe at all.. That's the main reason you can find some Levantine , and Semitic looking types there. It's also funny how people say all the black slaves in North Africa didn't affect the population.

[cally]

I agree, There's no way all those slaves didn't affect Southeastern Europe at all.. That's the main reason you can find some Levantine , and Semitic looking types there. It's also funny how people say all the black slaves in North Africa didn't affect the population.

Levantine and Semitic types are just remnants of the original Neolithic farmers.

[Scholarios]

I agree, There's no way all those slaves didn't affect Southeastern Europe at all.. That's the main reason you can find some Levantine , and Semitic looking types there. It's also funny how people say all the black slaves in North Africa didn't affect the population.


Its equally as funny when people claim the minority of northern phenotypes and ydna in south Europe or Levant is due to some vestige of " Aryan elite dominance" rather than the natural outcome of millions of slaves and successive barbarian invasions. This is Nordicism and its dishonest and sophomoric as hell.

[Smeagol]

Levantine and Semitic types are just remnants of the original Neolithic farmers.

Some of the Levantine types maybe yes, but Neolithic Farmers were apparently closer to modern Sardinians than to modern Near Easterners. Semitic was completely absent in Europe until Roman era slavery. (And maybe in a few areas it was brought by Phoenicians).

[Scholarios]

Some of the Levantine types maybe yes, but Neolithic Farmers were apparently closer to modern Sardinians than to modern Near Easterners. Semitic was completely absent in Europe until Roman era slavery. (And maybe in a few areas it was brought by Phoenicians).

But neolithic haplogroups are much much higher not only in Sardinia, but also Thessaly, Tuscany, Western Turkey etc. They are pretty sparse through much of the north. Anyways, we have examined only like 4 samples of neolithic dna.

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_G2a.gif


49911

[Smeagol]

Its equally as funny when people claim the minority of northern phenotypes and ydna in south Europe or Levant is due to some vestige of " Aryan elite dominance" rather than the natural outcome of millions of slaves and successive barbarian invasions. This is Nordicism and its dishonest and sophomoric as hell.

Most "Northern" DNA in Southern Europe probably is ancient. As for "Northern" phenotypes, well Aryan influence in Southern/Southeastern Europe definitely is ancient, but, Aryan was never the main type among Greeks, who in ancient times were mainly a mix of Pelasgian Mediterranean with Dinaric, Balkan Cromagnid, and Alpine influences, as well as Aryan influences. Alpine has increased a lot during the Middle Ages, as in Central, and Eastern Europe. (In fact, modern Greeks are mostly brachycephalic, ancients mainly low mesocephalic). Aryan has decreased since pre classical times, and was stronger in some city States (Macedonia for example) then others (Athens for example). In Italy, Aryan influence was much stronger, although usually present in mixed form.

Slavic looks are nearly absent in Greece. Most of the "Slavs" who settled in Greece during the Middle Ages were just Slavicized natives to the Balkans. Likewise, Germanic looks are nearly absent in Italy, most blonde Italians look "Italic". I have seen some Germanic looking Northerners but they definitely are a minority. Obviously many slaves in Roman times were Germans, but the largest number came from the Near Eastern provinces, and besides the Phoenicians in certain areas, admixture with them is the only way to explain the not uncommon Semitic, and Levantine looks in modern (mostly Southern) Italy.

[cally]

Some of the Levantine types maybe yes, but Neolithic Farmers were apparently closer to modern Sardinians than to modern Near Easterners. Semitic was completely absent in Europe until Roman era slavery. (And maybe in a few areas it was brought by Phoenicians).

You have to distinguish between early and late neolithic farmers. The former were similar to Sardinians but the latter were more levantine and west asian-shifted. Our Y-DNA haplogroups are Neolithic Balkanic so only way to be "levantinized" is through maternal lineage which doesn't add up since we have similar mtdna haplogroups as the rest of Europe. A Neolithic sample in Spain clustered with southern Tuscans so levantine components were present at that time.

I have read your posts and your nordicist agenda is clear.

[Smeagol]

You have to distinguish between early and late neolithic farmers. The former were similar to Sardinians but the latter were more levantine and west asian-shifted. Our Y-DNA haplogroups are Neolithic Balkanic so only way to be "levantinized" is through maternal lineage which doesn't add up since we have similar mtdna haplogroups with the rest of Europe.

Do you have any data on the physical anthropology of Late Neolithic Farmers in Europe?

[Scholarios]

Most "Northern" DNA in Southern Europe probably is ancient. As for "Northern" phenotypes, well Aryan influence in Southern/Southeastern Europe definitely is ancient, but, Aryan was never the main type among Greeks, who in ancient times were mainly a mix of Pelasgian Mediterranean with Dinaric, Balkan Cromagnid, and Alpine influences, as well as Aryan influences. Alpine has increased a lot during the Middle Ages, as in Central, and Eastern Europe. (In fact, modern Greeks are mostly brachycephalic, ancients mainly low mesocephalic). Aryan has decreased since pre classical times, and was stronger in some city States (Macedonia for example) then others (Athens for example). In Italy, Aryan influence was much stronger, although usually present in mixed form.

Slavic looks are nearly absent in Greece. Most of the "Slavs" who settled in Greece during the Middle Ages were just Slavicized natives to the Balkans. Likewise, Germanic looks are nearly absent in Italy, most blonde Italians look "Italic". I have seen some Germanic looking Northerners but they definitely are a minority. Obviously many slaves in Roman times were Germans, but the largest number came from the Near Eastern provinces, and besides the Phoenicians in certain areas, admixture with them is the only way to explain the not uncommon Semitic, and Levantine looks in modern (mostly Southern) Italy.


We will have to slightly disagree on this one. I can think of no reason why two haplogroups which are major players in Greece would be basically absent in south Italy. Not small, but nearly absent ( r1a m458 and i2a) to top it all off these classes increase the further you get to Slavic, Baltic, Scythian heartland- then drop off again as one proceeds through Germanic and formerly Celtic Europe. Occam's Razor says its highly likely one of these or both are brought by medieval invasions. If it were in proto- Greek and proto-illyrians it should show up in magna graecia or messapic peninsula. At least a little. Slavs must have played a part. As did Germanic folk ( less so). I admit that the puzzle isn't complete, and it does leave a mystery to what were the Aryan Greeks DNA like, but one conjecture is as good as the next on that one- but we will need to look for it in places where Greeks settled heavily.

[Smeagol]

A Neolithic sample in Spain clustered with southern Tuscans so levantine components were present at that time.

Tuscans definitely mostly look European so you're kind of proving my point.


I have read your posts and your nordicist agenda is clear.

Lol, I've never tried to link ancient Southern Europeans with Nordic peoples.

[Gaston]

Levantine and Semitic types are just remnants of the original Neolithic farmers.

Not really. They are admixed with Ancient North Eurasians, a dash of East African and in some cases East Eurasian influences.


I agree, There's no way all those slaves didn't affect Southeastern Europe at all.. That's the main reason you can find some Levantine , and Semitic looking types there. It's also funny how people say all the black slaves in North Africa didn't affect the population.

I don't think anybody denies it. Slavery is still practiced in Mauritania to this day. But endogamous groups are probably free from any West African or European slavery-related ancestry. That's why there is no ANE ancestry in Northwest Africans.

[cally]

Do you have any data on the physical anthropology of Late Neolithic Farmers in Europe?

There is a thread here: link (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?123120-Late-Neolithic-Iberian-farmer-similar-to-modern-Italians-and-more)

[cally]

Tuscans definitely mostly look European so you're kind of proving my point.



Lol, I've never tried to link ancient Southern Europeans with Nordic peoples.

Albanians and Greeks cluster with Tuscans.
Why are you only going by phenotype? Are you actually being serious?
Please tell me you are trolling otherwise stop wasting my time

[Smeagol]

We will have to slightly disagree on this one. I can think of no reason why two haplogroups which are major players in Greece would be basically absent in south Italy. Not small, but nearly absent ( r1a m458 and i2a) to top it all off these classes increase the further you get to Slavic, Baltic, Scythian heartland- then drop off again as one proceeds through Germanic and formerly Celtic Europe. Occam's Razor says its highly likely one of these or both are brought by medieval invasions. If it were in proto- Greek and proto-illyrians it should show up in magna graecia or messapic peninsula. At least a little. Slavs must have played a part. As did Germanic folk ( less so). I admit that the puzzle isn't complete, and it does leave a mystery to what were the Aryan Greeks DNA like, but one conjecture is as good as the next on that one- but we will need to look for it in places where Greeks settled heavily.

Well I don't know much about genetics to be honest, I prefer physical Anthropology, but looking up I2a, it's apparently native to Southeastern Europe, and has its highest frequencies in Bosnia, and Sardinia? Anyway R1a is present in South Italians too, although definitely a lot less common than in Greeks. I wonder if maybe Greece just always had a higher percentage though. Well I guess it definitely did, the question is how much higher. And How much Greek ancestry do Southern Italians have anyway?

[Smeagol]

Albanians and Greeks cluster with Tuscans.
Why are you only going by phenotype? Are you actually being serious?
Please tell me you are trolling otherwise stop wasting my time

Of course I'm talking about race, not genetics. (Although sometimes genetics can be used to help prove a theory, but overall it's useless for Racial classification)

[cally]

Of course I'm talking about race, not genetics. (Although sometimes genetics can be used to help prove a theory, but overall it's useless for Racial classification)

There was even African influence which you have dismissed before:
http://s8.postimg.org/gzgf0gnut/Untitled.jpg

[Smeagol]

There was even African influence which you have dismissed before

In who?

[Trun]

Southeastern Europeans do share more of their ancestry with Near Eastern groups than Northern Europeans. In terms of genetic distance Southeastern Europeans will always cluster closer to the Near East than Northern Europeans.

Bulgarians cluster closer to Swedes than to Palestinians.

Or maybe only Albanians and Greeks are Southeastern Europeans :picard1:

[cally]

Bulgarians cluster closer to Swedes than to Palestinians.

Or maybe only Albanians and Greeks are Southeastern Europeans :picard1:

Populations with no recent northern admixture of course. Let's not be politically correct.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Levantine and Semitic types are just remnants of the original Neolithic farmers.

Arabic types are nothing to do with levant, ancient farmers were brachi types not dolichocephalic. Camel molesters were confined to small part of the world until roman empire collapsed and they overran african and middle east holdings.

[cally]

Arabic types are nothing to do with levant, ancient farmers were brachi types not dolichocephalic. Camel molesters were confined to small part of the world until roman empire collapsed and they overran african and middle east holdings.

I think ancient levantines were most similar to modern Cypriots - now they are arabicized. The East med component also peaks in Cyprus.

[Smeagol]

Those Mycenaean reconstructions don't look "African" by the way.

[cally]

Those Mycenaean reconstructions don't look "African" by the way.

What do they look?

Classify http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?136298-Classify-reconstruction

[Gaston]

Neolithic farmers were actually a lot like modern Bedouins minus the additional East African influence and the ANE-admix from the Bronze Age on.


Those Mycenaean reconstructions don't look "African" by the way.

Yes, they look more Euro-asian, maybe like paleolithic Eurasians.

Besides, the Africans just to the south of them are (and were) dolichocephalic and leptorhine with long noses, just like modern MENAs.

[Smeagol]

What do they look?

Classify http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?136298-Classify-reconstruction

The middle one I'm not sure about, maybe Cromagnid. The other two are probably some type of Mediterranean. There's another classification thread for them with profile pictures, and ive seen pictures of the skulls.

[Trun]

Populations with no recent northern admixture of course. Let's not be politically correct.

Albanians are closer to Swedes too anyway, so are mainland Greeks. Maleficient clusters with Southern Italians.

[Insuperable]

]There's no line for puriity since all genepools overlap. On a global scale any sort of concepts of purity are laughable and wrong. Where are the pure Northern Europeans? lol they're clustering intermediate between many groups of people.

Only araboleveantonorthafrican mongrels care about global scale.


....

.....

Better to have some foreign haplogroups than being autosomally overwhelmingly non-European arabolevantonorthafrican European mix.


I agree, There's no way all those slaves didn't affect Southeastern Europe at all.. That's the main reason you can find some Levantine , and Semitic looking types there. It's also funny how people say all the black slaves in North Africa didn't affect the population.

Was there any slaves in northern Europe during Roman empire or should this apply only to southern Europeans? Was there any slaves in Sardinia because we know they remained pure for thousands of years plus they were also raided and invded throughout history? As noted several times most of the slaves were castrated and not all were from North Africa or Levant or I don't where from. Anyway let us nor forget what this thread is about or you may just stick with physical anthropology.


Some of the Levantine types maybe yes, but Neolithic Farmers were apparently closer to modern Sardinians than to modern Near Easterners. Semitic was completely absent in Europe until Roman era slavery. (And maybe in a few areas it was brought by Phoenicians).

Early neolithic farmers (early when it comes to European continent) were similar to Sardinians, yes, but there were more later migrations. I think callmyname gave you the link.


Well I don't know much about genetics to be honest, I prefer physical Anthropology, but looking up I2a, it's apparently native to Southeastern Europe, and has its highest frequencies in Bosnia, and Sardinia? Anyway R1a is present in South Italians too, although definitely a lot less common than in Greeks. I wonder if maybe Greece just always had a higher percentage though. Well I guess it definitely did, the question is how much higher. And How much Greek ancestry do Southern Italians have anyway?

It is not native there, the vast majority of I2 that is. Highest frequencies have little value in genetics when it comes to origin.


I think ancient levantines were most similar to modern Cypriots - now they are arabicized. The East med component also peaks in Cyprus.

Levantines thousands of years ago were similar to Sardinians. Those just 2000-3000 years ago were not that far from modern Levantines. East Med doesn't peak in Cyprus.

[Smeagol]

@Solin: Yeah, about later Neolithic Farmers, I saw the link. Apparently they cluster with Tuscans or at least the ones from Spain did.

[Insuperable]

@Solin: Yeah, about later Neolithic Farmers, I saw the link. Apparently they cluster with Tuscans or at least the ones from Spain did.

Have you read Polako's response in the third post there? Who knows what might be in other corners of Europe at that time.

[Arch Hades]

Some of the Levantine types maybe yes, but Neolithic Farmers were apparently closer to modern Sardinians than to modern Near Easterners. Semitic was completely absent in Europe until Roman era slavery. (And maybe in a few areas it was brought by Phoenicians).

Can you give me a scientific source that says there's lots of "Semitic" ancestry in Southern Europe?

[Arch Hades]

Bulgarians cluster closer to Swedes than to Palestinians.

Or maybe only Albanians and Greeks are Southeastern Europeans :picard1:

Well Palesianians arent the only non European East Mediterraneans...how about Turks or Christian Lebanese? Plus where is your source?

[Friends of Oliver Society]

In addition:

Craniofacial morphology in ancient and modern Greeks through 4,000 years. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25065118?dopt=Abstract)

[sick-eliot]

IBD analysis from Botigué et al. found no recent West Asian admixture among Italians from all the regions. Actually their Italian Swiss samples had more recent non Euro admixture than other Italians, but apparently one of those samples was half Jewish.

The Greeks had indeed some recent admixture from the Pontians, but the study had only 2 Greek samples so it doesn't sound very accurate.

Anyway both the Copper age Iberian farmer and the Iron age Bulgarian farmers had more West Asian admixture than any modern European, so if anything the Slavic and Germanic invasions lowered the level of non white admixture among Southern Europeans.

[Sakis]

IBD analysis from Botigué et al. found no recent West Asian admixture among Italians from all the regions. Actually their Italian Swiss samples had more recent non Euro admixture than other Italians, but apparently one of those samples was half Jewish.

The Greeks had indeed some recent admixture from the Pontians, but the study had only 2 Greek samples so it doesn't sound very accurate.

Anyway both the Copper age Iberian farmer and the Iron age Bulgarian farmers had more West Asian admixture than any modern European, so if anything the Slavic and Germanic invasions lowered the level of non white admixture among Southern Europeans.

The northern european element in s.europeans is not recent.

[Arch Hades]

The northern european element in s.europeans is not recent.

Who's "Northern European"? Like the component that peaks in Northern Europe that Dienekes and Polako name as Northern Eruopean?

Anyway, I think the bulk of it is prehistoric going back to at least the Bronze age but some of it increased during the Slavic incursions...though not significant overall.

[Insuperable]

Mesolithic + early Neolithic dna makes people Ubermensch. Southern Europe needs more of this.

[Sakis]

Who's "Northern European"? Like the component that peaks in Northern Europe that Dienekes and Polako name as Northern Eruopean?

Anyway, I think the bulk of it is prehistoric going back to at least the Bronze age but some of it increased during the Slavic incursions...though not significant overall.

I don't think that the Slavs amplified the n.euro element in the Balkans.It is slightly higher in Bulgarians than Greeks.

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/populations_Bulgarian_575.png

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/populations_Greek_575.png

[Sakis]

Mesolithic + early Neolithic dna makes people Ubermensch. Southern Europe needs more of this.

Stop trolling,the recent neolithic element in S.Europe is minor.

[Insuperable]

Stop trolling,the recent neolithic element in S.Europe is minor.

I don't care how old it is, but there is a shitload of WestAsian/SW Asian/East Med/North African in southern Europe according to calcs . It subhumanized us all.

[Sakis]

I don't care how old it is, but there is a shitload of WestAsian/SW Asian/East Med/North African according to calcs in southern Europe. It subhumanized us all.

I am wondering how many times have you typed the words mongrel and subhuman?

[Peikko]

http://italiaetnica.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/aplogruppo-n1c1.gif?w=584


LOL, yeah NortherneasternEuropeans are pure when they have a genetic Y signature that arose in East Asia that Southern Europeans very distinctly lack.

You do realize, that most Y-chromosome DNA haplogroups originate outside Europe, for example R1 in Central or Southern Asia. It doesn't have anything to do with mongoloid, or europid race.

Remember this?
http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E1b1b.jpg

[Insuperable]

I am wondering how many times have you typed the words mongrel and subhuman?

Not enough, not enough.

[Arch Hades]

I agree, There's no way all those slaves didn't affect Southeastern Europe at all.. That's the main reason you can find some Levantine , and Semitic looking types there. It's also funny how people say all the black slaves in North Africa didn't affect the population.

You didnt read the OP did you, lol..

Maybe the phenotyes you label "Semitic looking" are a ecological product of an environment but for certain there hasnt been much geneflow since the neolithic so the it all overwelmingly comes from prehistoric times.

[Arch Hades]

I don't think that the Slavs amplified the n.euro element in the Balkans.It is slightly higher in Bulgarians than Greeks.

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/populations_Bulgarian_575.png

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/populations_Greek_575.png

Who's data is this from? Got any on Northern European groups?

[Arch Hades]

You do realize, that most Y-chromosome DNA haplogroups originate outside Europe, for example R1 in Central or Southern Asia. It doesn't have anything to do with mongoloid, or europid race.

Remember this?
http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E1b1b.jpg

You dont know the morpholology of the original R1 barriers.

[Sakis]

Who's data is this from? Got any on Northern European groups?

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations/

[Arch Hades]

Mesolithic + early Neolithic dna makes people Ubermensch. Southern Europe needs more of this.


Do modern Swedes have this?

[Peikko]

You dont know the morpholology of the original R1 barriers.
Did you mean carriers? Or what are you talking about and how is it relevant to anything?

[Arch Hades]

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations/


DAnes sure are pure

https://geno2-dev.nationalgeographic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/populations_Danish_575.png

[Insuperable]

Do modern Swedes have this?

Yes, they do. That is what they primarily are. :confused:

[Arch Hades]

Did you mean carriers? Or what are you talking about and how is it relevant to anything?

yeah I meant bearers, not barriers, lol.

You said R1 had nothing to do with Europoid or Mongoloid but we don't know what pysiology the original R1 carriers had.

But I agree, all European genetic lines if we go back far enough arose outside of Europe. That was the whole point of the OP, that South Europeans may share some ancestry with the Near East but it goes back to prehistoric ages thousands of years before the classical era.

[Arch Hades]

Yes, they do. That is what they primarily are. :confused:


Swedes are a bunch of Egalitarian fags who deny race and let Muslims pork their women. I don't much consider them uber, lol

Sweden Announces that Races Don’t Exist
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgreenfield/sweden-announces-that-races-dont-exist/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+fpm+%28FrontPage+Magazine+%C2%B B+All%29

[Insuperable]

yeah I meant bearers, not barriers, lol.

You said R1 had nothing to do with Europoid or Mongoloid but we don't know what pysiology the original R1 carriers had.

But I agree, all European genetic lines if we go back far enough arose outside of Europe. That was the whole point of the OP, that South Europeans may share some ancestry with the Near East but it goes back to prehistoric ages thousands of years before the classical era.

Prehistoric, but it still doesn't prevent arabolevantonorthafricans from popping out all over southern Europe.

[Sakis]

DAnes sure are pure

https://geno2-dev.nationalgeographic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/populations_Danish_575.png

They just don't want to accept that the southwest asian element is not recent and that it is present in every European country.

[Insuperable]

They just don't want to accept that the southwest asian element is not recent and that it is present in every European country.

Well, first of all what is SW Asian there according to National Geographic? Who spread it? Danes don't have any of this according to other dna tools if we are talking about the same thing. They just have their own interpretation.

[Sakis]

Well, first of all what is SW Asian there according to National Geographic? Who spread it? Danes don't have any of this according to other dna tools.

Ask them.

[Insuperable]

Swedes are a bunch of Egalitarian fags who deny race and let Muslims pork their women. I don't much consider them uber, lol

Sweden Announces that Races Don’t Exist
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgreenfield/sweden-announces-that-races-dont-exist/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+fpm+%28FrontPage+Magazine+%C2%B B+All%29

Well, I won't argue with you about this.xD

[Guapo]

They just don't want to accept that the southwest asian element is not recent and that it is present in every European country.
Where did you guys find thes NG results?

[Sakis]

Where did you guys find thes NG results?

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations/

[Insuperable]

Ask them.

Not useful tests. Very broad and worthless. Made for butthurt southern European arabolevantonorthafricans to make themselves feel better.

[Sakis]

Not useful tests. Very broad and worthless. Made for butthurt southern European arabolevantonorthafricans to make themselves feel better.

Yes anything that you don't like is not useful.

[Insuperable]

Yes anything that you don't like is not useful.

And what you like you find useful. I would also like it to be true, but it is very broadly defined.

[Arch Hades]

They just don't want to accept that the southwest asian element is not recent and that it is present in every European country.

Well If National Geographic doesnt give a shit what they have to say then I certainly don't.

[cally]

And what you like you find useful. I would also like it to be true, but it is very broadly defined.

Didn't mesolithic europeans have ~8% SW Asian components? I remember reading that on TA

[Insuperable]

Didn't mesolithic europeans have ~8% SW Asian components? I remember reading that on TA

No.:blink:

[gültekin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dDXIX-y6aY

[Sakis]

And what you like you find useful. I would also like it to be true, but it is very broadly defined.

The genetic make up of south Europeans,middle easterners and north africans is FAR from being similar and you know it but you just keep trolling.

[Trun]

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/populations_Bulgarian_575.png

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/populations_Greek_575.png

This is crap (like almost everything).

[Insuperable]

The genetic make up of south Europeans,middle easterners and north africans is FAR from being similar and you know it but you just keep trolling.

It obviously isn't similar, but there are influences in southern Europe which don't exist in the north making them mongrels.

[Trun]

It obviously isn't similar, but there are influences in southern Europe which don't exist in the north making them mongrels.

I think this is enough for today, save you wog-trollium for tomorrow.

[Insuperable]

I think this is enough for today, save you wog-trollium for tomorrow.

Please daddy, I want to play. Just a bit more. Just telling the truth btw. No need to get butthurt over it.

[LightHouse89]

Sicily has recent Arabian admixture, due to the Arab conquest, hence why some Sicilians are shifted toward Arabian Bedouins, and from time to time Arabid types due appear in the island. Also many of the Arabs came from the region of Nejd who used Tunisia as launching pad to invade Sicily.

It is shocking though at how middle eastern many of them look.

[Sakis]

It obviously isn't similar, but there are influences in southern Europe which don't exist in the north making them mongrels.

And what about the northeast asian influence in northeastern europeans.

[Sakis]

This is crap (like almost everything).

Why is this crap?Are you an anthropologist?

[cally]

It obviously isn't similar, but there are influences in southern Europe which don't exist in the north making them mongrels.

Just let us be subhumans in peace?

[alfieb]

And what about the northeast asian influence in northeastern europeans.

http://www.forumnostrum.com/images/smilies/Finnic.png

[LightHouse89]

And what about the northeast asian influence in northeastern europeans.

I would rather be realted to eurasians with three digit IQs than arab sea turtles.

[Insuperable]

And what about the northeast asian influence in northeastern europeans.

It is present there, but still much lower in an average NE European than all of disgusting arabolevantonorthafrican influence in an average southern European.

[LightHouse89]

The Eurasian race is the master race....everything South of them is subhuman.

[LightHouse89]

It is present there, but still much lower in an average NE European than all of disgusting arabolevantonorthafrican influence in an average southen European.

Hence they are an entirely different people than Celts, Germanics, Baltics, and Slavs I am afraid. We are the Eurasian Master race :cool: we can dominate these southern euros with ease.

[cally]

We mean no harm ;)

[LightHouse89]

We mean no harm ;)

we know :p:cool:

[Insuperable]

Hence they are an entirely different people than Celts, Germanics, Baltics, and Slavs I am afraid. We are the Eurasian Master race :cool: we can dominate these southern euros with ease.

Yes. Celts, Germanics, Baltics and Slavs (except South Slavs not including Slovenians who are more similar to West Slavs) and those similar to them are the European or better said the World Master Race.

[Faklon]

This is crap (like almost everything).

Makes a lot o sense since Bulgarians have oriental culture with oriental vibes.:heh:

It's interesting however that SW Asian is as high in Northern Europe when it's Mediterranean that changes.

How did only one of them got to the North?

Anyway,I guess these are variables depending on the point of view when there is a real study in the first page.

[Sakis]

It is present there, but still much lower in an average NE European than all of disgusting arabolevantonorthafrican influence in an average southern European.

The arabolevantonorthafrican influence in south Europeans is minor.

[alfieb]

Hence they are an entirely different people than Celts, Germanics, Baltics, and Slavs I am afraid. We are the Eurasian Master race :cool: we can dominate these southern euros with ease.

lol. master race.

the term "slave" comes from the word "slav". this is a fact, look in any dictionary.

2000 years ago when Greeks, Latins, and Alb0z were enjoying the arts and trading with people in the Far East, the Celts, Germanics, Slavs, and Balts were worshiping animals, wearing animals on their heads, and painting their faces.

In other words, we were like the European settlers civilizing the New World, and you were the savage Indians.

[LightHouse89]

Yes. Celts, Germanics, Baltics and Slavs (except South Slavs not including Slovenians who are more similar to West Slavs) and those similar to them are the European or better said the World Master Race.

I honestly think it would be beneficial if Celts, Slavs, Germanics and Baltics formed their own Union and this way so no more wars between them which will decimate us like the last two world wars.... so it would be far more rational if you think about it.

[Arch Hades]

I would rather be realted to eurasians with three digit IQs than arab sea turtles.

We southern Europeas like being Southern EUropeans...Northern Europeans on the other hand don't seem to like being Northern Europeans...hence their embrace of Multiculturalism and constant race mixing. At least if we're talking about British and Scandinavians.

[Arch Hades]

I honestly think it would be beneficial if Celts, Slavs, Germanics and Baltics formed their own Union and this way so no more wars between them which will decimate us like the last two world wars.... so it would be far more rational if you think about it.

The world wars have fucked you guy over, it's nothing but a bunch of marxists, queers, liberals, hippies etc up in Britian now. You'd have to Euthanize 90% of your race.

[Insuperable]

The arabolevantonorthafrican influence in south Europeans is minor.

Don't Greeks have a shitload of East Med + SW Asian + West Asian admix on Gedmatch? This is about input similar to certain people not about use of modern words to describe modern people if that is what you are aiming at.

[Arch Hades]

Hence they are an entirely different people than Celts, Germanics, Baltics, and Slavs I am afraid. We are the Eurasian Master race :cool: we can dominate these southern euros with ease.


All of them completely owned by a little wog tribe from the desert called "Jews", lol

[Sikeliot]

Don't Greeks have a shitload of East Med + SW Asian + West Asian admix on Gedmatch? This is about input similar to certain people not about use of modern words to describe modern people if that is what you are aiming at.

Not ethnic Greeks, only the admixed ones like Pontians and Cypriots.

[LightHouse89]

lol. master race.

the term "slave" comes from the word "slav". this is a fact, look in any dictionary.

2000 years ago when Greeks, Latins, and Alb0z were enjoying the arts and trading with people in the Far East, the Celts, Germanics, Slavs, and Balts were worshiping animals, wearing animals on their heads, and painting their faces.

In other words, we were like the European settlers civilizing the New World, you were the savage Indians.

The same 'savages' conquered your Empire, plundered it, and raped it. Not to mention brown subhumans like you come from the left overs of these conquests.... you come from the Arab conquest that looted, raped and pillaged that island you come from. You were nothing like Northern European settlers because you are not one of us and never were one of us.

You are not our kindred and never will be. We defeated your Roman Empire when you tried to march through Germany....slaughtered your best legions. As legend went Roman dead bodies were nailed to trees on the borders of Italy and Germany. A sign to never bother Germans again. Not to mention when you invaded Britain the Picts of the North prevented Britain from being entirely Romanized which is good. History worked out for us because my ancestors were not romanized. Roman culture was more like american culture is today.

Anyway my ancestors plundered the Empire your super Sicilian ancestors came from.....I find that funny.

[Insuperable]

Not ethnic Greeks, only the admixed ones like Pontians and Cypriots.

I didn't have Pontians on my mind, especially Cypriots. The whole Balkans has a shitload of it not only Greece.

[LightHouse89]

All of them completely owned by a little wog tribe from the desert called "Jews", lol

Yes once we purge our societies of them we wont have to worry but this time we will never allow any foreigners into our lands....not even wog Sicilians.

[LightHouse89]

The world wars have fucked you guy over, it's nothing but a bunch of marxists, queers, liberals, hippies etc up in Britian now. You'd have to Euthanize 90% of your race.

Good the Slavs which are the opposite can make up for the rest. We dont have to euthanize them, more like steal their children, educate them to what needs to be done and use their parents as breeding tools.

[LightHouse89]

We southern Europeas like being Southern EUropeans...Northern Europeans on the other hand don't seem to like being Northern Europeans...hence their embrace of Multiculturalism and constant race mixing. At least if we're talking about British and Scandinavians.

False. We created the concept of racial laws.....southern europeans never practiced racial laws and have more in common with other med populations than me. I have nothing in common with middle eastern 'southern europeans'. We northerners came from Eurasia [Russia] not the south. You people came from somewhere in the middle east.

[Arch Hades]

Yes once we purge our societies of them we wont have to worry but this time we will never allow any foreigners into our lands....not even wog Sicilians.

That'll be the day pigs fly. Britian can't even get a Fascist party to get 2% of the vote.

[Geni]

Don't Greeks have a shitload of East Med + SW Asian + West Asian admix on Gedmatch? This is about input similar to certain people not about use of modern words to describe modern people if that is what you are aiming at.

You living maybe in 1 greek colonie today..that your ancestors stolen to greeks and now you say that they are shit ....man o man ...what for 1 perfect slav you are Solin...

[Arch Hades]

False. We created the concept of racial laws.....southern europeans never practiced racial laws and have more in common with other med populations than me. I have nothing in common with middle eastern 'southern europeans'. We northerners came from Eurasia [Russia] not the south. You people came from somewhere in the middle east.

Jews have been practicing racial laws long before Northern Europeans knew how to write..and our "Racial laws" are intrinsic...unlike yours. When all society barriers are broken down like the Jews have so easily done to you..you guys mix...waaaaayyyy to much. Because we are naturally more tribal and less individualistic.

[Sakis]

False. We created the concept of racial laws.....southern europeans never practiced racial laws and have more in common with other med populations than me. I have nothing in common with middle eastern 'southern europeans'. We northerners came from Eurasia [Russia] not the south. You people came from somewhere in the middle east.

The phenotypes of ancient Greeks and Romans don't show anything middle eastern they were indigenous to their lands.

[LightHouse89]

That'll be the day pigs fly. Britian can't even get a Fascist party to get 2% of the vote.

why is fascism popular in Greece? Why? Well maybe because the economy is very bad and they realize they are being screwed over by a minority of people in their country. :cool: The EU needs to fall apart to pave the way for a National Socialist Eurasia. The only way this can be achieved is through more decadence, economic hardship and the repeated failures of left wing politics. The more the muslims cause problems in western europe the better, then eventually they will cross the line and people will get sick of it.

The problem is brainwash is so intense here that from the age of 5 you are brainwashed to feel ashamed of the holocaust or colonialism.

[Insuperable]

You living maybe in 1 greek colonie today..that your ancestors stolen to greeks and now you say that they are shit ....man o man ...what for 1 perfect slav you are Solin...

Go away retard, and come back especially when you learn to type and jump back to the future by 1500 years.

[Faklon]

We northerners came from Eurasia [Russia] not the south. You people came from somewhere in the middle east.

Do you own pictures of Paleolithic Russia?

Wanna trade with my village?

[alfieb]

The same 'savages' conquered your Empire, plundered it, and raped it. Not to mention brown subhumans like you come from the left overs of these conquests.... you come from the Arab conquest that looted, raped and pillaged that island you come from. You were nothing like Northern European settlers because you are not one of us and never were one of us.

You are not our kindred and never will be. We defeated your Roman Empire when you tried to march through Germany....slaughtered your best legions. As legend went Roman dead bodies were nailed to trees on the borders of Italy and Germany. A sign to never bother Germans again. Not to mention when you invaded Britain the Picts of the North prevented Britain from being entirely Romanized which is good. History worked out for us because my ancestors were not romanized. Roman culture was more like american culture is today.

Anyway my ancestors plundered the Empire your super Sicilian ancestors came from.....I find that funny.

Oh? My dear potato nigger, tell that to Boudicca, or to the Gauls. Celts have been irrelevant since the Roman Empire beat the shit out of them all, leaving very little left to defend themselves when the Saxons invaded Britain.

And tell that to the Germanic pagans who adopted Roman religion, Arabic numbers, and the Roman alphabet. Your way of life no longer exists, as in order to become civilized, the Celts and Germanics became Romanized.

And Slavs and Balts still aren't civilized, unfortunately, no matter how many times they have tried.

[LightHouse89]

Jews have been practicing racial laws long before Northern Europeans knew how to write..and our "Racial laws" are intrinsic...unlike yours. When all society barriers are broken down like the Jews have so easily done to you..you guys mix...waaaaayyyy to much. Because we are naturally more tribal and less individualistic.

Slavs, Germans are less individualistic and more tribal. Infact the majority of Irish are even the same way. You just have distorted views of us. My society blocked many jews from coming here and many other non europeans as well. Segregation, racial quota acts [they actually physically had to see if you were aryan enough to belong in America].

[Geni]

HaHAHaaa Trolin ,I knew you'd answer immediately, it is stronger than you...:laugh2:

[Insuperable]

HaHAHaaa Trolin ,I knew you'd answer immediately, it is stronger than you...:laugh2:

:clap2:Only I have the permission to troll here.:mad:

[LightHouse89]

Oh? My dear potato nigger, tell that to Boudicca, or to the Gauls. Celts have been irrelevant since the Roman Empire beat the shit out of them all, leaving very little left to defend themselves when the Saxons invaded Britain.

And tell that to the Germanic pagans who adopted Roman religion, Arabic numbers, and the Roman alphabet. Your way of life no longer exists, as in order to become civilized, the Celts and Germanics became Romanized.

And Slavs and Balts still aren't civilized, unfortunately, no matter how many times they have tried.

Not true at all Tomato brain. The Celts raped the Greeks and Romans numerous times. Your Empire was a sodomite empire, homosexual emperors and orgies...your people are vile in appearance with your long hook noses and even more vile in behavior.....civilized? you fags invented cities and pollution.. not to mention dear Tomato nigger, you hired germanics, celtics, slavs and other northern euros into your armies to do the fighting for you. How brave of the super human Italian. You brown bastards sure like to take alot of credit for yourselves.

[LightHouse89]

Southern Europeans do not exist they are middle eastern settlers. Northern Europeans are basically Eurasians.

[alfieb]

Not true at all Tomato brain. The Celts raped the Greeks and Romans numerous times. Your Empire was a sodomite empire, homosexual emperors and orgies...your people are vile in appearance with your long hook noses and even more vile in behavior.....civilized? you fags invented cities and pollution.. not to mention dear Tomato nigger, you hired germanics, celtics, slavs and other northern euros into your armies to do the fighting for you. How brave of the super human Italian. You brown bastards sure like to take alot of credit for yourselves.

Sure we hired them as mercenaries. Why risk having ourselves die fighting barbarians when we can pay barbarians to fight barbarians for us.

And you're right, we invented cities. You were living in forests with animals.

And you used a bad choice of words, you see, because the Romans raped Boudicca and her daughters, and then took all of their lands in England.

Who founded London? The Romans did.

[Sakis]

Slavs, Germans are less individualistic and more tribal. Infact the majority of Irish are even the same way. You just have distorted views of us. My society blocked many jews from coming here and many other non europeans as well. Segregation, racial quota acts [they actually physically had to see if you were aryan enough to belong in America].

The slavic countries are the least developed of Europe.Even Cyprus is more developed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developed_country

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/2014_UN_Human_Development_Report_Quartiles.svg/863px-2014_UN_Human_Development_Report_Quartiles.svg.png

[Insuperable]

Southern Europeans do not exist they are middle eastern settlers. Northern Europeans are basically Eurasians.

No. Northern Europeans are Europeans proper, not Eurasians. Southern Europeans are European-arabolevantoafrican mix.

[LightHouse89]

Sure we hired them as mercenaries. Why risk having ourselves die fighting barbarians when we can pay barbarians to fight barbarians for us.

And you're right, we invented cities. You were living in forests with animals.

And you used a bad choice of words, you see, because the Romans raped Boudicca and her daughters, and then took all of their lands in England.

So aryan and brave of you brown subhumans. Yes they did rape her because they had no respect for her or her people. You are the same brown subhuman savages I see in europe today with sharia law and islam. But you prove how subhuman your people are....you cannot even fight your own battles. I like the story of Arminius though and how he tricked your retarded romans and slaughtered them when they entered the black forest. That is bravery..... inferior savages of pure blood defeat brown subhuman race. LOL go back to the Tomato Brain.

[LightHouse89]

No. Northern Europeans are Europeans proper, not Eurasians. Southern Europeans are European-arabolevantoafrican mix.

hmm true. :cool: we should re implement the racial quote acts of 1924 and ban all Wogs from entering our lands.

[Arch Hades]

Slavs, Germans are less individualistic and more tribal. Infact the majority of Irish are even the same way. You just have distorted views of us. My society blocked many jews from coming here and many other non europeans as well. Segregation, racial quota acts [they actually physically had to see if you were aryan enough to belong in America].

I don't have a problem with the Germans..but they lost.

WWII was basically a war between who would control the world's future...Germany or the Jews. The Jews won.

And you can't tell me that retarded British or Americans [who unfortunately have too much obtuse British blood] are tribal considering the demographic disaster of their nations since the end of WWII.

The British will hysterically denounce anything Fascist. hierarchical, masculine, tribal, etc. If you had a brain in your head you'd realize London is enemy #1. In fact you could say HItler's biggest mistake was not recognizing this.

I guarantee you most "Anti racist" male personalities will be overwhelmingly of British descent. If not they're Jewish who are just cloaking their real tribalism.

[Sakis]

No. Northern Europeans are Europeans proper, not Eurasians. Southern Europeans are European-arabolevantoafrican mix.

Southern Europeans have contributed the most to the European civilization.How would have Europe been without the Greco-Roman civilization?

[Arch Hades]

hmm true. :cool: we should re implement the racial quote acts of 1924 and ban all Wogs from entering our lands.


I think you better worry about more half British half Nigger piece of shit commanding the White house.

[Geni]

Southern Europeans have contributed the most to the European civilization.How would have Europe been without the Greco-Roman civilization?

Without trolling ,i say you ,that we can not know ,maybe better ...

[Guapo]

Oh? My dear potato nigger, tell that to Boudicca, or to the Gauls. Celts have been irrelevant since the Roman Empire beat the shit out of them all, leaving very little left to defend themselves when the Saxons invaded Britain.

And tell that to the Germanic pagans who adopted Roman religion, Arabic numbers, and the Roman alphabet. Your way of life no longer exists, as in order to become civilized, the Celts and Germanics became Romanized.

And Slavs and Balts still aren't civilized, unfortunately, no matter how many times they have tried.

Celts got beat up alot

[Arch Hades]

All European nationalist need to realize that Britian is the cancer.

When you see a fat "anti racist" hysterically denouncing nationalism or racism, it's probably a British piece of shit.
When you see White woman walking down the street with a nigger, it's not just a "White" woman as a nigger will brag...it's British-Irish blooded bitch.
When you see a feminist male..it's probably a British piece of shit.


All the faggot British have done in the last 70 years is bomb blonde haired blue eyed Germans and imported Pakis and NIggers and mixed with them. They're garbage.

[Insuperable]

Southern Europeans have contributed the most to the European civilization.How would have Europe been without the Greco-Roman civilization?

European civilization today is mainly the product of the last 500 years and that we can thank to Germanics, Celts, French (who are one of the purest Europeans so don't tell me they are southerners), northern Italians with the strong Celtic and Germanic ancestry, West and East Slavs...

[StonyArabia]

It is shocking though at how middle eastern many of them look.

Sicilian can be up to 20% Arabian genetically, the highest in Europe btw.

[Sakis]

Without trolling ,i say you ,that we can not know ,maybe better ...

Sciences are a crucial part of a civilization,Greeks and Romans were very interested in sciences.

[Guapo]

French women love me

[Arch Hades]

Well anyway, this thread has become more political than scientific. If you wish to discuss politics or philosophy or nationalism we can create another thread...i'm only gonna respond to the scientific discussions in this thread for the remainder.

[Insuperable]

Sicilian can be up to 20% Arabian genetically, the highest in Europe btw.

Muh nigga, get lost.

[Sakis]

European civilization today is mainly the product of the last 500 years and that we can thank to Germanics, Celts, French (who are one of the purest Europeans so don't tell me they are southerners), northern Italians with the strong Celtic and Germanic ancestry, West and East Slavs...

How is European civilization the product of the last 500 years?:picard1:

[Geni]

Clear man...i am 1 great fan to greco-romans...still we can not know...although personally I can not imagine different

[Insuperable]

How is European civilization the product of the last 500 years?:picard1:

Isn't it obvious how? :picard2:

[Insuperable]

Well anyway, this thread has become more political than scientific. If you wish to discuss politics or philosophy or nationalism we can create another thread...i'm only gonna respond to the scientific discussions in this thread for the remainder.

I am done here:laugh:. Perhaps a mod should delete all of this:laugh:

[StonyArabia]

Muh nigga, get lost.

Look at genetic results of some Sicilians. We left our mark there, and we have gave them a unique culture that still exist in that island.

[Sakis]

Clear man...i am 1 great fan to greco-romans...still we can not know...although personally I can not imagine different

Politics and law courts a fundamental element of all the modern societies are coming from the ancient Greece.Can you imagine the world without this things?

[Insuperable]

Look at genetic results of some Sicilians. We left our mark there, and we have gave them a unique culture that still exist in that island.

Since when are camel riders able to give culture? They must get rid of that culture and find some more uber culture.

[Guapo]

Look at genetic results of some Sicilians. We left our mark there, and we have gave them a unique culture that still exist in that island.

Please take alfieb with you then

[Peikko]

Politics and law courts a fundamental element of all the modern societies are coming from the ancient Greece.Can you imagine the world without this things?
Politics and law wasn't invented by Greeks. Northern Europeans had societies.

[Geni]

Politics and law courts a fundamental element of all the modern societies are coming from the ancient Greece.Can you imagine the world without this things?

Quote Originally Posted by Geni View Post
Clear man...i am 1 great fan to greco-romans...still we can not know...although personally I can not imagine different:shrug:

[alfieb]

Please take alfieb with you then

http://forumnostrum.com/images/smilies/sicilian.gif

[Sakis]

Politics and law wasn't invented by Greeks. Northern Europeans had societies.

Were the northerns European practicing politics when the ancient Greeks did?Were there courts of law in northen Europe?Why don't you accept reality?I didn't said that northern Europeans didn't have societies.

[StonyArabia]

Since when are camel riders able to give culture? They must get rid of that culture and find some more uber culture.

They did

“As-Salamu `Alaykum” would have been a common greeting in Sicily a thousand years ago! Why? Because from 827 to 1061, Sicily was under Arab rule, a period of enlightenment whose cultural, social and economic reforms had a profound and long-lasting influence that is still felt today.

After the birth of Islam in the early years of the 7th century, the teachings of Mohammed quickly spread, not least towards Egypt and North Africa. Soon the Arabic world rose to a position of dominance in many fields, such as medicine, mathematics, astronomy, farming, cartography and poetry. Their military might was no less significant, and it was only a matter of time before Sicily, the crossroads of the Mediterranean, fell into Arab hands.

As noted earlier, the Arab world was arguably the most advanced civilisation of the time and Sicily benefitted greatly from becoming part of it.

In the field of agriculture alone, the Arabs worked wonders. They divided the large estates and diversified production. While continuing to exploit Sicily’s potential as a wheat producer, they introduced a whole variety of crops, including one of modern Sicily’s major players: citrus fruits. Sugar cane, cotton, dates and hemp were also cultivated in considerable quantities, nurtured by the implementation of highly effective irrigation techniques. Surviving examples of these are the “qanats” in Palermo, subterranean waterways that brought water through the city.

The Arabs had strong trade links with the mid and far east, and soon cultivated new ones in Europe. Textiles, sugar, rope, silk and objects crafted in the souks were sent all over the known world, turning Sicily into an important commercial crossroads.

The Arabs were also great builders and town planners. Most of Sicily’s main towns and cities underwent considerable changes during Arab rule, not least Palermo, where the Kalsa and Cassaro districts were established. Markets too sprung up, several of which, such as the Capo and the Ballaro’ in Palermo still thrive, souk-like, today.

Sicilian cuisine was also strongly influenced by the Arabs, who added almonds, aniseed, apricots, artichokes, cinnamon, oranges, pistachio, pomegranates, saffron, sesame, spinach, sugarcane, watermelon and rice to the local palate. Today, raisins and pine kernels are fundamental to a host of pasta and fish recipes, many sweets are of obvious Arab extraction, while sorbets and granitas also owe their popularity to North African ingenuity. One of the most common dishes in western Sicily is cous cous, an obvious hangover from Arab times, celebrated each year at the end of September when San Vito Lo Capo hosts an international cous cous fest. The Zibbibo grape, used to make Passito di Pantelleria, the supreme dessert wine, was introduced by the Arabs. And if all that weren't enough, Sicilian Arabs were the first to mass produce dried pasta - an undertaking of huge importance for the world as a whole!!

[Guapo]

Germanic invented the jury and courts as we know it...meh he was probably half ashkenazi anyway

[Insuperable]

They did

“As-Salamu `Alaykum” would have been a common greeting in Sicily a thousand years ago! Why? Because from 827 to 1061, Sicily was under Arab rule, a period of enlightenment whose cultural, social and economic reforms had a profound and long-lasting influence that is still felt today.

After the birth of Islam in the early years of the 7th century, the teachings of Mohammed quickly spread, not least towards Egypt and North Africa. Soon the Arabic world rose to a position of dominance in many fields, such as medicine, mathematics, astronomy, farming, cartography and poetry. Their military might was no less significant, and it was only a matter of time before Sicily, the crossroads of the Mediterranean, fell into Arab hands.

As noted earlier, the Arab world was arguably the most advanced civilisation of the time and Sicily benefitted greatly from becoming part of it.

In the field of agriculture alone, the Arabs worked wonders. They divided the large estates and diversified production. While continuing to exploit Sicily’s potential as a wheat producer, they introduced a whole variety of crops, including one of modern Sicily’s major players: citrus fruits. Sugar cane, cotton, dates and hemp were also cultivated in considerable quantities, nurtured by the implementation of highly effective irrigation techniques. Surviving examples of these are the “qanats” in Palermo, subterranean waterways that brought water through the city.

The Arabs had strong trade links with the mid and far east, and soon cultivated new ones in Europe. Textiles, sugar, rope, silk and objects crafted in the souks were sent all over the known world, turning Sicily into an important commercial crossroads.

The Arabs were also great builders and town planners. Most of Sicily’s main towns and cities underwent considerable changes during Arab rule, not least Palermo, where the Kalsa and Cassaro districts were established. Markets too sprung up, several of which, such as the Capo and the Ballaro’ in Palermo still thrive, souk-like, today.

Sicilian cuisine was also strongly influenced by the Arabs, who added almonds, aniseed, apricots, artichokes, cinnamon, oranges, pistachio, pomegranates, saffron, sesame, spinach, sugarcane, watermelon and rice to the local palate. Today, raisins and pine kernels are fundamental to a host of pasta and fish recipes, many sweets are of obvious Arab extraction, while sorbets and granitas also owe their popularity to North African ingenuity. One of the most common dishes in western Sicily is cous cous, an obvious hangover from Arab times, celebrated each year at the end of September when San Vito Lo Capo hosts an international cous cous fest. The Zibbibo grape, used to make Passito di Pantelleria, the supreme dessert wine, was introduced by the Arabs. And if all that weren't enough, Sicilian Arabs were the first to mass produce dried pasta - an undertaking of huge importance for the world as a whole!!

I am not being serious dude and it seems you took quite a time to write that. :laugh:

[Balmung]

You mean if a Southern European mixes with a Northern European you'll get a mongrel between a Southern European and a Northern European? Well no shit, lol.

Those already exist. Northern Europeans are partially descedants of southerners. Hunter gatherers weren't pink skinned nordic gods. Pink skin came later with further migration into the north and change in diet. We all have swarthy genetics even if we don't show them! WE'RE ALL WOG!

http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/758/cache/blue-eyed-spaniard-01_75845_990x742.jpg

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/01/140126-blue-eye-spain-fossil-human-discovery-gene/

[Peikko]

Were the northern European practicing politics when the ancient Greeks did?Were there courts of law in northen Europe?Why don't you accept reality?I didn't said that northern Europeans didn't have societies.
All societies have laws and so did Northern Europeans.

What do you mean "practicing politics"? Do you mean, that did they have political systems? Like monarchies? Yes they did.

[Arch Hades]

European civilization today is mainly the product of the last 500 years and that we can thank to Germanics, Celts, French (who are one of the purest Europeans so don't tell me they are southerners), northern Italians with the strong Celtic and Germanic ancestry, West and East Slavs...


Northern Italians don't have strong Germanic ancestry [I can prove that if you want sources] and they're biologically more "Southern" than Spaniards.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5312/5816139163_55896d2cf4_b.jpg

SOURCE : Tian et al. (2009). European Population Genetic Substructure: Further Definition of Ancestry Informative Markers for Distinguishing Among Diverse European Ethnic Groups. Mol Med; doi: 10.2119

Link (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2730349/)


And the French are about genetically equidistant between Scandinavians and Southern Italians.

[Insuperable]

^^^^^^^Jim Crow approves Nabatea's post.

[Peikko]

Those already exist. Northern Europeans are partially descedants of southerners. Hunter gatherers weren't pink skinned nordic gods. Pink skin came later with further migration into the north and change in diet. We all have swarthy genetics even if we don't show them!

...

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/01/140126-blue-eye-spain-fossil-human-discovery-gene/
It's the opposite: Southerners are partially descedants of Northerners. Those hunter-gatherers were genetically Northern European.

[Sakis]

All societies have laws and so did Northern Europeans.

What do you mean "practicing politics"? Do you mean, that did they have political systems? Like monarchies? Yes they did.

I am talking about court of laws,criminals were judged in ancient Greece like in every modern society.There is no proof that this was happening in northern Europe.

[Insuperable]

I love you guys!

[Arch Hades]

It's the opposite: Southerners are partially descedants of Northerners. Those hunter-gatherers were genetically Northern European.

Yep, this is true...in the Bronze age there were influxes of Northern European like or at least Northern Strains into Southern Europe. Some people think this wave of migration brought Indo-European speech although that's still up for debate.

[Insuperable]

It's the opposite: Southerners are partially descedants of Northerners. Those hunter-gatherers were genetically Northern European.

You are very racist.

[Faklon]

They're all descendants of Melonhead.

[Sakis]

It's the opposite: Southerners are partially descedants of Northerners. Those hunter-gatherers were genetically Northern European.

Proof?

[Insuperable]

Proof?

:picard2:

[gold_fenix]

You always convert all these tye of post in a fight between South and North , and this is made by both bands , southerners or Northerner, come on follow this way of thinking who is better and who is lesser , we have more important things to try that all that war North-South , I applaud (more ironic on)

[Peikko]

I am talking about court of laws,criminals were judged in ancient Greece like in every modern society.There is no proof that this was happening in northern Europe.
Depending how you define court of law, I'm sure Northern Europeans didn't live in anarchy, although we don't know much about prehistoric Celtic laws etc.


Proof?
Just see where La Braña man clusters.

[Sakis]

Just see where La Braña man clusters.

Show me.

[Insuperable]

Show me.

La Brana along with other Mesolithic samples is outside modern variations, but the closest populations were northern populations especailly northeastern ones.
http://oi57.tinypic.com/2zp2mo1.jpg

[Insuperable]

They were super northerners, more northern than modern ones.

[Insuperable]

U mad now?

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Depending how you define court of law, I'm sure Northern Europeans didn't live in anarchy, although we don't know much about prehistoric Celtic laws etc.


Especially considering southern euros killed them and destroyed most their writings, then called them barbarians. Oh the irony.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

They were super northerners, more northern than modern ones.

Exactly, northern europe is simply european. This other crap is foreign stuff that came mainly in roman times and later.

[Sakis]

Especially considering southern euros killed them and destroyed most their writings, then called them barbarians. Oh the irony.

Hahaha when did this happen?:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

[LightHouse89]

http://forumnostrum.com/images/smilies/sicilian.gif

ah picking tomatoes I see.

[Arch Hades]

Exactly, northern europe is simply european. This other crap is foreign stuff that came mainly in roman times and later.

That was refuted in the OP by actual geneticists, try again.

[LightHouse89]

How is European civilization the product of the last 500 years?:picard1:

Because the Protestant reformation brought us into the modern age.

[LightHouse89]

That'll be the day pigs fly. Britian can't even get a Fascist party to get 2% of the vote.

I am not a Fascist. I am a National Socialist.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

That was refuted in the OP by actual genetics, try again.

Lol, what bullshit. This 'study' is utter horseshit.

[Arch Hades]

I am not a Fascist. I am a National Socialist.

So am I, although I would say that German National Socialism is just a branch of Fascism.

[Arch Hades]

Lol, what bullshit. This 'study' is utter horseshit.

Yeah yeah yeah, do you have a counter with real science or what?

[Faklon]

Especially considering southern euros killed them and destroyed most their writings, then called them barbarians. Oh the irony.

AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

10/10

Would read again.

[Faklon]

Hahaha when did this happen?:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Phoenicians were Vikings that were lost in the Med sea and taught everything.

[Faklon]

Lol, what bullshit. This 'study' is utter horseshit.

You often speak of woggy behaviour,what's you opinion on the behaviour of white Americans who refute science and try to find value via the internets of their apartments?

Quite "faggy" if you ask me.