Latin American's 23andme Specific Euro Composition - Summary

[Brighton]

Latin America is a region formed by people of European, African and Native American ancestry.

Within the European ancestry, the main source is the Iberian peninsula. However, nationals from countries such as Italy, the United Kingdom, Germany and France, amongst others, also emigrated to Latin American nations.

Here is the average for certain Latin American countries of the specific Iberian, Italian, Balkan, British, French/German and Scandinavian percentage that a sample of tested nationals via 23andme have showed.


IBERIAN

http://i.imgur.com/J4VwY9W.png

Cuba's sample is mostly made up of White Cubans from areas such as Miami. It makes sense they're certainly a lot more Iberian than any other country in the sample. Puerto Rico and Colombia showed a smaller total European input than Argentina and Brazil. However, the two latter have a more diverse source of ancestry than the two former, hence they show less Iberian influence than Colombians and Puerto Ricans. Chile is also within the average. Peru, Guatemala, Bolivia -due to high Native American influence- and the Dominican Republic -thanks to an important African influence- show an Iberian admixture that is below average.

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ITALIAN

http://i.imgur.com/bjksI9u.png

Argentina's (9,3%) and Brazil's (7,7%) Italian influence is certainly most important than in the rest of the countries. Buenos Aires and Sao Paulo, amongst other cities in both countries, received a massive Italian immigration that explains these numbers. Cuba also shows a significant number. Puerto Rico, Colombia and Peru seem to have received enough Italian immigrants as to reach the average. Chile, the Dominican Republic, Bolivia and especially Guatemala have an extremely low proportion.

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BALKAN

http://i.imgur.com/Wii8Bcq.png

All the countries show negligible numbers except for Argentina -probably due to Croat-Slovene influence- which almost reaches the 1% - also very low actually.

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BRITISH/IRISH

http://i.imgur.com/Ca1duzm.png

The countries from the Southern Cone, specifically Argentina (3.4%) and Chile (3.0%) show the highest numbers, probably explained by British and Irish immigration to those countries - more likely Welsh and Scottish in the case of Argentina and English in the case of Chile. As for the other countries, Brazil and the islands in the Caribbean manage to be within the average, whilst Colombia, Peru, Bolivia and Guatemala have all percentages of 0,5% or below.

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FRENCH-GERMAN

http://i.imgur.com/6TY57Np.png

Brazil and Chile show a much higher proportion (2%) than all the other countries, probably due to the German communities that settled in Southern Brazil and Southern Chile. Cuba and Argentina have numbers that are within the average. The rest of the countries have negligible numbers ranging from 0% to 0.2%.

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SCANDINAVIAN

http://i.imgur.com/7eGdyyj.png

All the nations show negligible numbers, with Brazil and Chile (0.4%) having the highest proportion - may be due to some Germans scoring Scandinavian, since Nordic immigration to Latin America wasn't actually importat. As for the lowest ones, Colombia and Guatemala exhibit a 0%.

[Argentano]

cool thread...did you do this with the 23andme results people has been posting in this site?

[Brighton]

cool thread...did you do this with the 23andme results people has been posting in this site?
I did indeed.

The results are actually quite interesting.. they make sense to me

[Argentano]

I did indeed.

The results are actually quite interesting.. they make sense to me

yes i agree they make sense...my only doubt is that if the argentine samples end up being 87% euro on average.. that means they are probably mostly middle and upper class samples...and middle and upper class tend to have a lot of italian ancestry..

the reason why your chart says only 9% italian could be that 23andme understands italian as italian american (south italian) and we also received a lot of inmigration from central italy and north italy..

one example of an argentine guy who is 25% italian but just 6% italian in 23andme


Composition of another Argentine cousin of mine on 23andme, he is 1/2 Galician, 1/4 French and 1/4 Northern Italian (Argentina seems to have a lot of varied euro influences, on average much more significantly than in other Latin American countries, Eastern euro, German, French and British, f.e, usually appear), I believe I am related to him and to the other Argentine above via a shared Iberian ancestry:

http://i58.tinypic.com/300xjpk.jpg

[Brighton]

yes i agree they make sense...my only doubt is that if the argentine samples end up being 87% euro on average.. that means they are probably mostly middle and upper class samples...and middle and upper class tend to have a lot of italian ancestry..

the reason why your chart says only 9% italian could be that 23andme understands italian as italian american (south italian) and we also received a lot of inmigration from central italy and north italy..

one example of an argentine guy who is 25% italian but just 6% italian in 23andme

Yeah probably.. also to be honest British tended to show up more easily than French-German

[Lemonhead]

Very interesting, the results make sense.

[Brighton]

Bump

[Chimera]

yes i agree they make sense...my only doubt is that if the argentine samples end up being 87% euro on average.. that means they are probably mostly middle and upper class samples...and middle and upper class tend to have a lot of italian ancestry..

the reason why your chart says only 9% italian could be that 23andme understands italian as italian american (south italian) and we also received a lot of inmigration from central italy and north italy..

one example of an argentine guy who is 25% italian but just 6% italian in 23andme

North Italians also score 90% Italian on 23andme.

23andme is not very good for mixed people. That Argentinian guy is half Galician, but scores 20% Iberian for example.

[Brighton]

Bump

[Sikeliot]

The British-Irish might be through Iberia. Iberians sometimes score this component too.

[Argentano]

The British-Irish might be through Iberia. Iberians sometimes score this component too.

Argentina recieved English, scotish and Irish inmigration...there are actually two part irish argentines in the site (TCDA1986 and SaraNM) and Lean has british ancestry

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

Here is the 23andme Euro Composition results of some relatives from my dad's side with their pic:
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/yoyochickenkfc/Myrelative23andmeresultssjid_zps160c7d6e.jpg
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/yoyochickenkfc/NichelleV418_n_zps1d67fcc6.jpg
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/yoyochickenkfc/Myrelative23andmeresultssjid_zps91b64ee9.jpg
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/yoyochickenkfc/Mayelii15_n_zps69c3b0e6.jpg
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/yoyochickenkfc/Myrelative23andmeresults3_zpsf5f074d6.jpg
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/yoyochickenkfc/LaRue014293_n_zpsfd76ea41.jpg
they are all relatives of each other.

[Snchpnz]

Good thread. Can you make a chart showing total Southern European, Northern European, and Broadly European percentages?

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

The one in the blue uniform have been said to look like a Argentine in the U.S.

[Smaug]

Good thread Brighton, seriously. The data presented makes sense, except maybe for Cuba, but again, most if not all the European presence in Cuba is Spanish. Nice to see that Brazil has the third largest British contribution in the subcontinent. Argentina and Brazil being the most Italian countries is something very expected, if Uruguay had been studied they would certainly have made it to the top three. It's also interesting the Balkan presence being shown. I know there's an important Slovene community in Chile. Brazil received many Croats, my first girlfriend in high school was of Croatian descent.

[Smaug]

The British-Irish might be through Iberia. Iberians sometimes score this component too.

Argentina, Brazil and Chile received British immigrants. Me and Lean are examples of British Latin Americans.

[Smaug]

Argentina recieved English, scotish and Irish inmigration...there are actually two part irish argentines in the site (TCDA1986 and SaraNM) and Lean has british ancestry

And me!

[Brighton]

The British-Irish might be through Iberia. Iberians sometimes score this component too.
It doesn't make any sense.

Chile is 2nd in British/Irish but only 6th in Iberian, whilst Cuba is 1st in Iberian and only 4th in British/Irish.

[Brighton]

Here is the 23andme Euro Composition results of some relatives from my dad's side with their pic:

Dude this is so effing off-topic I don't even know what to say

[leisitox]

Dude this is so effing off-topic I don't even know what to say
:rotfl2

[Brighton]

Argentina recieved English, scotish and Irish inmigration...there are actually two part irish argentines in the site (TCDA1986 and SaraNM) and Lean has british ancestry
Yah same in Chile. I've got plenty of classmates with surnames such as Lyon, Lynch, Cox, Mackenna, Mackenzie, McKay, O'Ryan..

I am part Irish myself. The only non-Hispanic surname in my family comes from my maternal grandfather, which is Rafter.

[Brighton]

Good thread. Can you make a chart showing total Southern European, Northern European, and Broadly European percentages?
I start working at a Law firm tomorrow so I don't think I'll have much time. I'll try doing it as soon as possible though.

[Brighton]

Argentina, Brazil and Chile received British immigrants. Me and Lean are examples of British Latin Americans.
Just out of curiosity, are you English, Irish, Welsh or Scottish?? And how much? Cheers


Good thread Brighton, seriously. The data presented makes sense, except maybe for Cuba, but again, most if not all the European presence in Cuba is Spanish. Nice to see that Brazil has the third largest British contribution in the subcontinent. Argentina and Brazil being the most Italian countries is something very expected, if Uruguay had been studied they would certainly have made it to the top three. It's also interesting the Balkan presence being shown. I know there's an important Slovene community in Chile. Brazil received many Croats, my first girlfriend in high school was of Croatian descent.
Thanks, I appreciate it.

Ps: the community in Chile is Croatian though, not Slovene haha.

[Smaug]

Just out of curiosity, are you English, Irish, Welsh or Scottish?? And how much? Cheers

I am 50% British, on my mother's side, from Scotland. My grandfather was from Aberdeen and my grandmother is from Glasgow. We have Welsh and Irish ancestries mixed with Scottish. I am 37,5% Scottish, 6,25% Irish and 6,25% Welsh. My father has a more typical ancestry for Brazil, being Italiand and Portuguese.


Thanks, I appreciate it.

Ps: the community in Chile is Croatian though, not Slovene haha.

Oh, sorry, made a confusion there. I remember watching a documentary about a Croatian community somewhere in the Andes. I don't remember much, but it was interesting.

[Brighton]

I am 50% British, on my mother's side, from Scotland. My grandfather was from Aberdeen and my grandmother is from Glasgow. We have Welsh and Irish ancestries mixed with Scottish. I am 37,5% Scottish, 6,25% Irish and 6,25% Welsh. My father has a more typical ancestry for Brazil, being Italiand and Portuguese.

Oh, sorry, made a confusion there. I remember watching a documentary about a Croatian community somewhere in the Andes. I don't remember much, but it was interesting.

Aberdeen sounds awesome. So you're 3/8 Scottish, 1/4 Italian, 1/4 Portuguese, 1/16 Irish and 1/16 Welsh. That's quite a mix haha.

Yep, my mum was raised in Punta Arenas (Austral Chile). She said half her classmates had Croatian surnames.

[Smaug]

Aberdeen sounds awesome. So you're 3/8 Scottish, 1/4 Italian, 1/4 Portuguese, 1/16 Irish and 1/16 Welsh. That's quite a mix haha.

Yep, my mum was raised in Punta Arenas (Austral Chile). She said half her classmates had Croatian surnames.

Actually I am more Italian than Portuguese. I am 43,75% Italian and 6,25% Portuguese, but yes, I am very mixed, which is quite normal given the fact that I was born in the New World, where 99% of people are mixed. And indeed, the documentary I watched was in Punta Arenas.

[Brighton]

Actually I am more Italian than Portuguese. I am 43,75% Italian and 6,25% Portuguese, but yes, I am very mixed, which is quite normal given the fact that I was born in the New World, where 99% of people are mixed. And indeed, the documentary I watched was in Punta Arenas.
Haha oh yes of course! But most people are just Iberian and/or Native and/or African, it is my point.

Yep Magallanes is very Croatian. This is their Senator http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolina_Goic and this is their MP http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Boric

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

Dude this is so effing off-topic I don't even know what to say

Really, not really. Look at my post and of your thread the title. Not no much if you ask me,dude.

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

:rotfl2

I got a little out of Chile here,lol.

[Smaug]

Haha oh yes of course! But most people are just Iberian and/or Native and/or African, it is my point.

Yep Magallanes is very Croatian. This is their Senator http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolina_Goic and this is their MP http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Boric

Nice, Patagonia is magic. Me and my friends had plan to visit the region, but we never got to make it. I've always had a particular interest in the indigenous people who inhabit(ed) the region. We can say in general lines that Patagonia is the South American version of Alaska, so these Amerindian nations would be our "version" of Eskimos.

[Brighton]

Really, not really. Look at my post and of your thread the title. Not no much if you ask me,dude.

Dude, I don't really know if you're taking the piss but your post doesn't even show the exact European Composition..

If you ask me it just seems you wanted to show us you've got relatives who are over 90% European..

[Brighton]

Nice, Patagonia is magic. Me and my friends had plan to visit the region, but we never got to make it. I've always had a particular interest in the indigenous people who inhabit(ed) the region. We can say in general lines that Patagonia is the South American version of Alaska, so these Amerindian nations would be our "version" of Eskimos.

It is indeed, you guys should go. I did it with my family years ago and we had a blast.

I'd recommend taking a plane to Bariloche and then do -> San Martin de los Andes -> Esquel -> Rio Gallegos -> Punta Arenas -> Torres del Paine National Park. And then on the way back Ushuaia -> Calafate -> Esquel again -> Chiloé -> Puerto Varas. Amazing locations, really magical.

The Selk'nams were awesome, they seem to have enjoyed life, made bonfires and painted their bodies like this and stuff:

http://www.jangiliam.nl/sources/afb/39-55.jpg

They're extinct now though.. the other Austral Amerindians (Kawesqar and Yaghans) are also on their way to extinction, it's very sad

[Smaug]

It is indeed, you guys should go. I did it with my family years ago and we had a blast.

I'd recommend taking a plane to Bariloche and then do -> San Martin de los Andes -> Esquel -> Rio Gallegos -> Punta Arenas -> Torres del Paine National Park. And then on the way back Ushuaia -> Calafate -> Esquel again -> Chiloé -> Puerto Varas. Amazing locations, really magical.

The Selk'nams were awesome, they seem to have enjoyed life, made bonfires and painted their bodies like this and stuff:

http://www.jangiliam.nl/sources/afb/39-55.jpg

They're extinct now though.. the other Austral Amerindians (Kawesqar and Yaghans) are also on their way to extinction, it's very sad

Sad, the Tehuelches are reduced to 1,500. This region has always fascinated me. There's a song I like very much called "Quimey Neuquén":


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yJGL1hdl8Cw

Actually the original plan of me and my friends was to re-make Che Guevara's trip through South America, but we got to the conclusion that it was too much for us, so we decided making our own trip. The plan was to make a "V" shaped trip, we would leave São Paulo, pass through South Brazil, Uruguay, Argentina all the way down to Tierra del Fuego, then up to Santiago and Antofagasta, where a Chilean friend of ours live. We would get to know the entire Southern Cone!

[Brighton]

Sad, the Tehuelches are reduced to 1,500. This region has always fascinated me. There's a song I like very much called "Quimey Neuquén":


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yJGL1hdl8Cw

Actually the original plan of me and my friends was to re-make Che Guevara's trip through South America, but we got to the conclusion that it was too much for us, so we decided making our own trip. The plan was to make a "V" shaped trip, we would leave São Paulo, pass through South Brazil, Uruguay, Argentina all the way down to Tierra del Fuego, then up to Santiago and Antofagasta, where a Chilean friend of ours live. We would get to know the entire Southern Cone!
Yep so sad. Although to be honest we call Mapuches all of the ones ending in "che" – Tehuelches, Huilliches, Pehuenches.

That's actually quite a nice song.

That trip is too long. You'd get tired and start fighting with each other haha. Also I shouldn't be telling you this but Antofagasta is actually not very nice. I've always had the theory miners spend all of their money gambling and in slags.. But yah anyway, that sounds like a sick plan! You should totally do it.

I've been to all of Chile –except for the Atacama Region but there's nothing there except for like the rescued miners-, Buenos Aires, all of Southern Argentina and Sao Paulo. Still have Southern Brazil, Uruguay and North and Central Argentina to get to know the entire Southern Cone.. one day, one day.

[Smaug]

Yep so sad. Although to be honest we call Mapuches all of the ones ending in "che" – Tehuelches, Huilliches, Pehuenches.

That's actually quite a nice song.

That trip is too long. You'd get tired and start fighting with each other haha. Also I shouldn't be telling you this but Antofagasta is actually not very nice. I've always had the theory miners spend all of their money gambling and in slags.. But yah anyway, that sounds like a sick plan! You should totally do it.

I've been to all of Chile –except for the Atacama Region but there's nothing there except for like the rescued miners-, Buenos Aires, all of Southern Argentina and Sao Paulo. Still have Southern Brazil, Uruguay and North and Central Argentina to get to know the entire Southern Cone.. one day, one day.

I didn't know that about the Mapuches, I thought they were a separate people. This friend of mine was o Mapuche ancestry. He also told me that Antofagasta isn't the nicest place in Chile. When it comes to big Chilean cities, I really want to know Santiago. It is the most beautiful Latin American city in my opinion. When my father was a kid he lived there, his younger brother, my uncle, was born in Santiago.

[Brighton]

I didn't know that about the Mapuches, I thought they were a separate people. This friend of mine was o Mapuche ancestry. He also told me that Antofagasta isn't the nicest place in Chile. When it comes to big Chilean cities, I really want to know Santiago. It is the most beautiful Latin American city in my opinion. When my father was a kid he lived there, his younger brother, my uncle, was born in Santiago.
Yah well nowadays they all speak Mapudungün and Spanish, so people tend to group them together because of that. I really like Santiago – not cos I was born and bred here but because I really think the Andes give it a very nice vibe. The city is also quite modern and clean compared to most Latin American cities. Buenos Aires and Sao Paulo are a lot more fun though. Every city's got its neighbours anyway. I fell in love with Morumbi. I remember walking by this Spanish school called Miguel de Cervantes towards the Morumbi Stadium.. all that area was amazingly green and beautiful. Miraflores in Lima was also nice – although Lima in general is ugly as fuck, pardon my French.

Does your uncle have the Chilean nationality then? That's awesome. My mum's cousin married a Paulista girl and they had my cousin. He committed suicide afterwards though - he had depression- so I never got to know him. Sad story. My cousin's been to Santiago plenty of times though so we're fairly close and thanks to her I learnt to speak basic Portuguese.

[Smaug]

Yah well nowadays they all speak Mapudungün and Spanish, so people tend to group them together because of that. I really like Santiago – not cos I was born and bred here but because I really think the Andes give it a very nice vibe. The city is also quite modern and clean compared to most Latin American cities. Buenos Aires and Sao Paulo are a lot more fun though. Every city's got its neighbours anyway. I fell in love with Morumbi. I remember walking by this Spanish school called Miguel de Cervantes towards the Morumbi Stadium.. all that area was amazingly green and beautiful. Miraflores in Lima was also nice – although Lima in general is ugly as fuck, pardon my French.

Does your uncle have the Chilean nationality then? That's awesome. My mum's cousin married a Paulista girl and they had my cousin. He committed suicide afterwards though - he had depression- so I never got to know him. Sad story. My cousin's been to Santiago plenty of times though so we're fairly close and thanks to her I learnt to speak basic Portuguese.

Morumbi is nice indeed, but we've got really ugly neighbourhoods as well, as ugly as Lima. I think Santiago look "cleaner", while São Paulo and Buenos Aires have beautiful places, but also some really ugly places. It could be a wrong vibe though.

Yes, my uncle has Chilean citzenship and all my paternal side speaks Spanish quite well due to the time they lived there. São Paulo seems to have a small Chilean community. There's a famous restaurant near my house called "El Güaton" which is owned by a Chilean couple, and one of my professors at university is Chilean too.

I'm sorry about this episode in your family, but nice you have ties to São Paulo. I remember you said they live in Vila Madalena, right? Did you stay with them during your trip to São Paulo.

[Brighton]

Morumbi is nice indeed, but we've got really ugly neighbourhoods as well, as ugly as Lima. I think Santiago look "cleaner", while São Paulo and Buenos Aires have beautiful places, but also some really ugly places. It could be a wrong vibe though.

Yes, my uncle has Chilean citzenship and all my paternal side speaks Spanish quite well due to the time they lived there. São Paulo seems to have a small Chilean community. There's a famous restaurant near my house called "El Güaton" which is owned by a Chilean couple, and one of my professors at university is Chilean too.

I'm sorry about this episode in your family, but nice you have ties to São Paulo. I remember you said they live in Vila Madalena, right? Did you stay with them during your trip to São Paulo.
To be honest I didn't see any place in Sao Paulo that were as ugly as Lima. Probs cos Lima is literally in the middle of the desert and also people have to pay taxes to finish their houses -I know, so weird- so a lot of houses actually don't have a roof or are unfinished..

Awesome! Do you speak any Spanish? Haha "güaton" means "fat" in Chilean Spanish haha. We've got a very unique dialect. I think if you learn to understand Chileans, you'll be able to understand any Spanish-speaking person.. there's a fairly amount of Brazilians here as well, I've met many. Everytime I meet one I try to practise my Portuguese with them :P

Yep I really wanna comeback soon. Flights aren't expensive and I'd like to go to Ubatuba – I didn't get to go whilst I was there because of bad weather. My family there is actually Espiritista haha they're very into it. Do you know anything about it? And yes they live in Vila Madalena, I stayed with them but also went to other areas of the city – Morumbi, Av. Paulista, Taboao da Serra - and we went to Praia Grande as well.

Also I was shocked by how nice Brazilians are.. people sitting offered people standing to carry their bags on the bus, so nice. That'd never happen in Santiago. Also I remember some of them kind of hated Argentines. They saw me speaking Spanish and some of them were like "Argentine?" with this judging face. I was like "no, Chilean" and their face literally changed in 180 degrees haha. It was hilarious.

[Smaug]

To be honest I didn't see any place in Sao Paulo that were as ugly as Lima. Probs cos Lima is literally in the middle of the desert and also people have to pay taxes to finish their houses -I know, so weird- so a lot of houses actually don't have a roof or are unfinished..

Awesome! Do you speak any Spanish? Haha "güaton" means "fat" in Chilean Spanish haha. We've got a very unique dialect. I think if you learn to understand Chileans, you'll be able to understand any Spanish-speaking person.. there's a fairly amount of Brazilians here as well, I've met many. Everytime I meet one I try to practise my Portuguese with them :P

Yep I really wanna comeback soon. Flights aren't expensive and I'd like to go to Ubatuba – I didn't get to go whilst I was there because of bad weather. My family there is actually Espiritista haha they're very into it. Do you know anything about it? And yes they live in Vila Madalena, I stayed with them but also went to other areas of the city – Morumbi, Av. Paulista, Taboao da Serra - and we went to Praia Grande as well.

Also I was shocked by how nice Brazilians are.. people sitting offered people standing to carry their bags on the bus, so nice. That'd never happen in Santiago. Also I remember some of them kind of hated Argentines. They saw me speaking Spanish and some of them were like "Argentine?" with this judging face. I was like "no, Chilean" and their face literally changed in 180 degrees haha. It was hilarious.

I speak some Spanish. It is taught in Brazilian schools since the Mercosul was founded. This Chilean restaurant was pointed out by the same friend from Antofagasta, in the years he lived here. The food is VERY good: empanadas, pollo a lo probre, even seviche, altough it is more Peruvian I think. It is easy to get fat there. :P

You should totally go to Ubatuba, all the coastal region of Northern São Paulo is very beautiful: Ubatuba, Ilhabela, São Sebastião. I posted some photos of Ilhabela on my thread about São Paulo: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?130420-S%E3o-Paulo-State-Southeastern-Brazil&p=2762931&viewfull=1#post2762931

Just be careful with the bad weather, Ubatuba is known to us as "Ubachuva", because it's always raining there.

And I'm glad to hear that your experience here was positive. This thing of carrying the bags of people standing up is very common here. Brazilians from other states complain that Paulistas are arrogant, cold and distant and only care about work.

We do not really "hate" Argentinians, it's more like a feud. Paulistas dislike Cariocas (people from Rio) more, and we have absolutely nothing against Chileans.

[SupaThug]

And I'm glad to hear that your experience here was positive. This thing of carrying the bags of people standing up is very common here. Brazilians from other states complain that Paulistas are arrogant, cold and distant and only care about work.

This is pretty much a stereotype from what I know from my experiences.

[Smaug]

This is pretty much a stereotype from what I know from my experiences.

I am sorry, I didn't get it?

[SupaThug]

I am sorry, I didn't get it?

I mean that it is just a stereotype,like saying people from Bahia are lazy,people from Rio Grande do Sul are...(you know what)...None of those stereotypes are really true.

[Smaug]

I mean that it is just a stereotype,like saying people from Bahia are lazy,people from Rio Grande do Sul are...(you know what)...None of those stereotypes are really true.

But isn't that exactly what I said...? People stereotype us as being cold and distant. We might not be as extroverted as it would be expected from a "Brazilian" or "Latin American", we calling us "cold" is bit too much...

[SupaThug]

But isn't that exactly what I said...? People stereotype us as being cold and distant. We might not be as extroverted as it would be expected from "Brazilian" or "Latin Americans", we calling us "cold" is bit too much...

I am sorry if I got you wrong.

[Smaug]

I am sorry if I got you wrong.

From my experience, Mineiros are the most "closed" people of all Brazil.

[SupaThug]

From my experience, Mineiros are the most "closed" people of all Brazil.

The ones from South and Central Minas Gerais definitly are,especially the ones who come from more rural areas.North Minas Gerais is very simillar to Bahia,so I think that they are different.

[Smaug]

The ones from South and Central Minas Gerais definitly are,especially the ones who come from more rural areas.North Minas Gerais is very simillar to Bahia,so I think that they are different.

Southern Mineiros and Paranaenses are the most similar people to Paulistas in my opinion.

[SupaThug]

Southern Mineiros and Paranaenses are the most similar people to Paulistas in my opinion.

They are,but the ones from rural areas(be they from São Paulo or South Minas Gerais)tend to be more closed than any other brazilian,they are more conservative too.

[Smaug]

They are,but the ones from rural areas(be they from São Paulo or South Minas Gerais)tend to be more closed than any other brazilian,they are more conservative too.

Yeah, that is true.

[Brighton]

I speak some Spanish. It is taught in Brazilian schools since the Mercosul was founded. This Chilean restaurant was pointed out by the same friend from Antofagasta, in the years he lived here. The food is VERY good: empanadas, pollo a lo probre, even seviche, altough it is more Peruvian I think. It is easy to get fat there. :P

You should totally go to Ubatuba, all the coastal region of Northern São Paulo is very beautiful: Ubatuba, Ilhabela, São Sebastião. I posted some photos of Ilhabela on my thread about São Paulo: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?130420-S%E3o-Paulo-State-Southeastern-Brazil&p=2762931&viewfull=1#post2762931

Just be careful with the bad weather, Ubatuba is known to us as "Ubachuva", because it's always raining there.

And I'm glad to hear that your experience here was positive. This thing of carrying the bags of people standing up is very common here. Brazilians from other states complain that Paulistas are arrogant, cold and distant and only care about work.

We do not really "hate" Argentinians, it's more like a feud. Paulistas dislike Cariocas (people from Rio) more, and we have absolutely nothing against Chileans.
I didn't know that! They teach Portuguese at my Uni but you've gotta pay for it. A friend took it last year though, he learnt quite a bit. I wish we could choose to learn a third language at school though. We only had Spanish and English. You should try the "bistec a lo pobre", it's awfully caloric but really nice, take my word!

Yep that's actually the reason we didn't get to go, it was raining so much the roads were closed. I really want to though. I'd also like to go to Buzios, Florianopolis and Camboriu haha I love beaches :P

Umm I've got the impression some Brazilians from other states might be a bit resentful towards Paulistas cos you guys are better-off economically, hence they call you arrogant, cold, etc. Just my impression though. But yep Paulistas are very nice compared to Santiaguinos. People here don't even apologise when they run into you on the metro, it sucks.

Haha yep it's more like a rivalry, but it was funny to see the reaction of those people. Chileans love Brazilians to be honest. When I was a child Axe was very trendy here. My cousin came and all my friends would be like omg you're Brazilian can you dance Axe blah blah.. and my cousin is like really "Paulista" (haha) so she doesn't dance samba nor axe.. haha people loved her anyway here though – Brazilians are very welcome here.

[Brighton]

This is pretty much a stereotype from what I know from my experiences.
Yeah I reckon it is.. At least my personal impression was that Paulistas were very nice, kind and friendly.

[Smaug]

I didn't know that! They teach Portuguese at my Uni but you've gotta pay for it. A friend took it last year though, he learnt quite a bit. I wish we could choose to learn a third language at school though. We only had Spanish and English. You should try the "bistec a lo pobre", it's awfully caloric but really nice, take my word!

Yep that's actually the reason we didn't get to go, it was raining so much the roads were closed. I really want to though. I'd also like to go to Buzios, Florianopolis and Camboriu haha I love beaches :P

Umm I've got the impression some Brazilians from other states might be a bit resentful towards Paulistas cos you guys are better-off economically, hence they call you arrogant, cold, etc. Just my impression though. But yep Paulistas are very nice compared to Santiaguinos. People here don't even apologise when they run into you on the metro, it sucks.

Haha yep it's more like a rivalry, but it was funny to see the reaction of those people. Chileans love Brazilians to be honest. When I was a child Axe was very trendy here. My cousin came and all my friends would be like omg you're Brazilian can you dance Axe blah blah.. and my cousin is like really "Paulista" (haha) so she doesn't dance samba nor axe.. haha people loved her anyway here though – Brazilians are very welcome here.

Are you back to your Uni in Chile or still in Brighton? There are also some Argentinians in São Paulo, and they told me that in some schools back in their homeland they started teaching Portuguese, also because of the Mercosul. It's a pity our economic group literally sucks.

If you ever come to Brazil again you should totally visit the southern coast. The beaches found from Northern São Paulo to Santa Catarina are really beautiful. The green mountains meet the ocean, it's quite a unique look, and it's there that some of the last areas of preserved Atlantic moist forest are found.

Indeed, Axe and Samba are not really appreaciated in São Paulo, I myself hate it. It is more of a Northeastern thing, so nothing unusual about you Paulista cousing not knowing how to dance it. I really don't know why other Brazilians look down on us. Maybe your reasons are right. São Paulo also fought a war against all Brazil in 1929, our only ally was Rio Grande do Sul. I don't know if it is like this in Chile, but in Brazil people are very regionalist almost tribalist. In Portuguese we call it "bairrismo", it's like patriostim, but of loving your "pátria", you love your "bairro", which is Portuguese for "neighbourhood".

[SupaThug]

Are you back to your Uni in Chile or still in Brighton? There are also some Argentinians in São Paulo, and they told me that in some schools back in their homeland they started teaching Portuguese, also because of the Mercosul. It's a pity our economic group literally sucks.

If you ever come to Brazil again you should totally visit the southern coast. The beaches found from Northern São Paulo to Santa Catarina are really beautiful. The green mountains meet the ocean, it's quite a unique look, and it's there that some of the last areas of preserved Atlantic moist forest are found.

Indeed, Axe and Samba are not really appreaciated in São Paulo, I myself hate it. It is more of a Northeastern thing, so nothing unusual about you Paulista cousing not knowing how to dance it. I really don't know why other Brazilians look down on us. Maybe your reasons are right. São Paulo also fought a war against all Brazil in 1929, our only ally was Rio Grande do Sul. I don't know if it is like this in Chile, but in Brazil people are very regionalist almost tribalist. In Portuguese we call it "bairrismo", it's like patriostim, but of loving your "pátria", you love your "bairro", which is Portuguese for "neighbourhood".

Rio Grande do Sul was not an ally of São Paulo in 32,some people from there were,like some people from Minas Gerais ,but São Paulo's real ally was Mato Grosso do Sull,wich was not free from Mato Grosso at the time,no place helped São Paulo more than Mato Grosso do Sul(South Mato Grosso at the ime) did.

[Brighton]

Are you back to your Uni in Chile or still in Brighton? There are also some Argentinians in São Paulo, and they told me that in some schools back in their homeland they started teaching Portuguese, also because of the Mercosul. It's a pity our economic group literally sucks.

If you ever come to Brazil again you should totally visit the southern coast. The beaches found from Northern São Paulo to Santa Catarina are really beautiful. The green mountains meet the ocean, it's quite a unique look, and it's there that some of the last areas of preserved Atlantic moist forest are found.

Indeed, Axe and Samba are not really appreaciated in São Paulo, I myself hate it. It is more of a Northeastern thing, so nothing unusual about you Paulista cousing not knowing how to dance it. I really don't know why other Brazilians look down on us. Maybe your reasons are right. São Paulo also fought a war against all Brazil in 1929, our only ally was Rio Grande do Sul. I don't know if it is like this in Chile, but in Brazil people are very regionalist almost tribalist. In Portuguese we call it "bairrismo", it's like patriostim, but of loving your "pátria", you love your "bairro", which is Portuguese for "neighbourhood".
Yep I'm back already, I study at the Pontifical Catholic Uni of Chile, it's fairly known I think. Oh that's awesome. We're not part of Mercosur though, nor of the Andean Community of Nations. I think we're the only country in South America that doesn't belong to any of those two.. I'm not entirely sure though.

I am definitely going again! I'm saving for America first though cos I've never been there. I started working at a law firm two days ago in order to save money to travel to the East Coast. After that I'll probs do Uruguay, Southern Brazil and Sao Paulo. I've got free accommodation in SP anyway so it shouldn't be expensive at all. Brazilian beaches are AWESOME. Such warm water. Our beaches suck, it's a pity.

I'm not a fan of samba to be honest. Axe is quite catchy though, but as a Chilean I'm not a talented dancer at all haha. It's not like that in Chile at all haha I mean a lot of people from the "Provinces" –as people call any region that's not Santiago- have this resentment against Santiago cos they say the government doesn't care about them but only about us blah blah.. I think it's a typical feeling towards capital cities though. But there aren't any rivalries between regions as in Brazil, and not many people are particularly "proud" of their region.

I remember my relatives talked about "Nordestinos" in a very derogatory way actually, like they felt they were invading their state – my relatives are Paulistas born and bred. So it makes sense what you say about bairrismo. I think Chile's got more "tension" between classes than between states – like in Brazil - or for instance races – like in the U. S. -. Chile is a very classist country and there are even certain words that mean the same but they'll make people know if you're working class or middle class, e.g. lentes vs. anteojos; vehiculo vs. auto; beber vs. tomar; cenar vs. comer, etc. It's actually a bit hilarious haha.

Ps: I'm actually going to look for this war in Wikipedia, sounds interesting.

[SupaThug]

I remember my relatives talked about "Nordestinos" in a very derogatory way actually, like they felt they were invading their state – my relatives are Paulistas born and bred. So it makes sense what you say about bairrismo. I think Chile's got more "tension" between classes than between states – like in Brazil - or for instance races – like in the U. S. -. Chile is a very classist country and there are even certain words that mean the same but they'll make people know if you're working class or middle class, e.g. lentes vs. anteojos; vehiculo vs. auto; beber vs. tomar; cenar vs. comer, etc. It's actually a bit hilarious haha.

Ps: I'm actually going to look for this war in Wikipedia, sounds interesting.

Many middle class people here love to bash ''nordestinos'' but most of those who love to bash them are a complete joke because they are super ignorant about Northeast Brazil...The fact that many people here use the word ''baiano''(Baianos are people from Bahia) to refer to any northeasterner proves my point,not to mention that many think that all northeasterns don't work and live on pseudo-welfare(the very known ''bolsa família).

[Brighton]

Many middle class people here love to bash ''nordestinos'' but most of those who love to bash them are a complete joke because they are super ignorant about Northeast Brazil...The fact that many people here use the word ''baiano''(Baianos are people from Bahia) to refer to any northeasterner prove my point,not to mention that many think that all northeasterns don't work and live on pseudo-welfare(the very know ''bolsa família).

Hahaha oh yah I remember my relatives calling them Baianos as well. I don't know that much about Brazil's socioeconomics nor the welfare state you guys have so I can't give an intelligent opinion.. but I do know Latin Americans in general tend to be very found of having a big size government, which in my personal opinion is bad cos makes people too dependant on welfare. I don't really know if that's the case for Nordestinos though.

[SupaThug]

Hahaha oh yah I remember my relatives calling them Baianos as well. I don't know that much about Brazil's socioeconomics nor the welfare state you guys have so I can't give an intelligent opinion.. but I do know Latin Americans in general tend to be very found of having a big size government, which in my personal opinion is bad cos makes people too dependant on welfare. I don't really know if that's the case for Nordestinos though.

I am personally very liberal(in the brazilian sense) and I think that too much state influence sucks.I like the austrian school of economics.

[Brighton]

I am personally very liberal(in the brazilian sense) and I think that too much state influence sucks.I like the austrian school of economics.

What's being liberal on the Brazilian sense??

I am socially liberal (i.e. pro-weed legalisation, gay marriage, etc.) and fiscally conservative (i.e. pro-free market, low taxes, etc.). This is in the American/British sense though..

EDIT: If you like the Austrian School then liberal on the Brazilian sense means fiscally conservative in the American sense, doesn't it??

[SupaThug]

What's being liberal on the Brazilian sense??

I am socially liberal (i.e. pro-weed legalisation, gay marriage, etc.) and fiscally conservative (i.e. pro-free market, low taxes, etc.). This is in the American/British sense though..

EDIT: If you like the Austrian School then liberal on the Brazilian sense means fiscally conservative in the American sense, doesn't it??

I am liberal in all sense,I am not a conservative(conservatives hate many of my opinions),I say liberal in the brazilian sense because people in the US associate the word ''liberal'' to left wingers.I am liberal socially and fiscally too.

[Brighton]

I am liberal in all sense,I am not a conservative(conservatives hate many of my opinions),I say liberal in the brazilian sense because people in the US associate the word ''liberal'' to left wingers.I am liberal socially and fiscally too.
Ohh yah that in the US is called a Libertarian :P

In Chile being liberal means exactly the same as in Brazil. I am a liberal as well. I tend to vote for the centre-right though cos I often prioritise my economic views over my social views – and I'm against abortion anyway which is the biggest social issue in Chile right now.

I voted for Evelyn Matthei in the last Chilean elections haha don't know if you heard of her.

[SupaThug]

Ohh yah that in the US is called a Libertarian :P

In Chile being liberal means exactly the same as in Brazil. I am a liberal as well. I tend to vote for the centre-right though cos I often prioritise my economic views over my social views – and I'm against abortion anyway which is the biggest social issue in Chile right now.

I voted for Evelyn Matthei in the last Chilean elections haha don't know if you heard of her.

Yep,I lean towards american libertarianism,but I have some views that go against the libertarian pinciples(they are too polemic,so I prefer to not talk about them).About Evelyn Matthei I see that she is the first right wing woman to the run for the chilean presidency,right?

[Smaug]

Rio Grande do Sul was not an ally of São Paulo in 32,some people from there were,like some people from Minas Gerais ,but São Paulo's real ally was Mato Grosso do Sull,wich was not free from Mato Grosso at the time,no place helped São Paulo more than Mato Grosso do Sul(South Mato Grosso at the ime) did.

Yes it was, with what would become Mato Grosso do Sul. The Mineiros were our main enemies.


Yep I'm back already, I study at the Pontifical Catholic Uni of Chile, it's fairly known I think. Oh that's awesome. We're not part of Mercosur though, nor of the Andean Community of Nations. I think we're the only country in South America that doesn't belong to any of those two.. I'm not entirely sure though.

I am definitely going again! I'm saving for America first though cos I've never been there. I started working at a law firm two days ago in order to save money to travel to the East Coast. After that I'll probs do Uruguay, Southern Brazil and Sao Paulo. I've got free accommodation in SP anyway so it shouldn't be expensive at all. Brazilian beaches are AWESOME. Such warm water. Our beaches suck, it's a pity.

I'm not a fan of samba to be honest. Axe is quite catchy though, but as a Chilean I'm not a talented dancer at all haha. It's not like that in Chile at all haha I mean a lot of people from the "Provinces" –as people call any region that's not Santiago- have this resentment against Santiago cos they say the government doesn't care about them but only about us blah blah.. I think it's a typical feeling towards capital cities though. But there aren't any rivalries between regions as in Brazil, and not many people are particularly "proud" of their region.

I remember my relatives talked about "Nordestinos" in a very derogatory way actually, like they felt they were invading their state – my relatives are Paulistas born and bred. So it makes sense what you say about bairrismo. I think Chile's got more "tension" between classes than between states – like in Brazil - or for instance races – like in the U. S. -. Chile is a very classist country and there are even certain words that mean the same but they'll make people know if you're working class or middle class, e.g. lentes vs. anteojos; vehiculo vs. auto; beber vs. tomar; cenar vs. comer, etc. It's actually a bit hilarious haha.

Ps: I'm actually going to look for this war in Wikipedia, sounds interesting.

Nice, this friend of my studies in UPC as well. It is well known here. I didn't know about this feelings Chielans have for Santiaginos. We Brazilians hate Brasília because of what it represents, but we do not hate people from Brasília.

The hatred Pauslitas have for Nordestinos is quite widespread, it's on television all the time. In all honesty it's not only Paulistas who hate them, other states too, usually southerly states with better standards that just like São Paulo received Northeastern migrants.

And sorry, the war I was talking about happened in 1932, not 1929, my bad. It was a really interesting part of our History. Although São Paulo lost the war, Paulistas as very proud of what it represented. We fought for a fair constitution. We have holidays, avenues, buildings and many things named after it. We still have parades with the veterans who fought in this war:

https://direitasja.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/veteranos.jpg

And the famous obelisk you might have seen whew you were in São Paulo is the place where our soldiers killed in actiom are barried.

[SupaThug]

Yes it was, with what would become Mato Grosso do Sul. The Mineiros were our main enemies.

Some people from Rio Grande do Sul and Minas Gerais,did support São Paulo.But people from Mato Grosso do Sul were the only allies

http://tudoporsaopaulo1932.blogspot.com.br/2010/07/e-o-sul-de-mato-grosso-foi-as-armas.html

[Brighton]

Yep,I lean towards american libertarianism,but I have some views that go against the libertarian pinciples(they are too polemic,so I prefer to not talk about them).About Evelyn Matthei I see that she is the first right wing woman to the run for the chilean presidency,right?

Haha fair enough! I'd vote for the Democrats in the US but for the Conservatives in the UK.. American politics are too right-wing though so their "left" –Democrats- are actually like our centre and their "right" –Republicans- would be like far right here..

Yep she was! And also the run-off was between two women which in my opinion is amazing. It was a nice ballotage.

[Brighton]

Nice, this friend of my studies in UPC as well. It is well known here. I didn't know about this feelings Chielans have for Santiaginos. We Brazilians hate Brasília because of what it represents, but we do not hate people from Brasília.

The hatred Pauslitas have for Nordestinos is quite widespread, it's on television all the time. In all honesty it's not only Paulistas who hate them, other states too, usually southerly states with better standards that just like São Paulo received Northeastern migrants.

And sorry, the war I was talking about happened in 1932, not 1929, my bad. It was a really interesting part of our History. Although São Paulo lost the war, Paulistas as very proud of what it represented. We fought for a fair constitution. We have holidays, avenues, buildings and many things named after it. We still have parades with the veterans who fought in this war:

https://direitasja.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/veteranos.jpg

And the famous obelisk you might have seen whew you were in São Paulo is the place where our soldiers killed in actiom are barried.
Yep the PUC is a good Uni. Your friend from Antofagasta this is? How did you meet him haha sounds a bit random to know someone from up North doesn't it. Yep like on Twitter everytime something happens in Santiago and it's all over the news all the Provincials are bitching on Twitter like "omg Santiago is so important blah blah Santiago is all over the news blah blah".. and we're like ok sorry...

I reckon you're not a fan of Dilma, are you? My relatives are not fans of that party.. I think most Paulistas aren't, correct me if I am mistaken. Aa alright I see. I think that happens a bit in Chilean towards Peruvians/Bolivians but it's mostly working class people who tend to be more narrow-minded. People from rural areas are also like that.. But like people my age aren't like that at all. The Chilean youth tends to be very open-minded towards all of the social issues including immigration.

Yep I read about it! Is it Revolucão Constitucionalista in Portuguese? That's awesome how you guys stood up agains the whole country haha I'm truly impressed.. and yeah I did see the obelisk indeed. Very nice. I think our last war was the "Guerra del Pacifico".. which is when Bolivia became a landlocked country :P

[Smaug]

Yep the PUC is a good Uni. Your friend from Antofagasta this is? How did you meet him haha sounds a bit random to know someone from up North doesn't it. Yep like on Twitter everytime something happens in Santiago and it's all over the news all the Provincials are bitching on Twitter like "omg Santiago is so important blah blah Santiago is all over the news blah blah".. and we're like ok sorry...

I reckon you're not a fan of Dilma, are you? My relatives are not fans of that party.. I think most Paulistas aren't, correct me if I am mistaken. Aa alright I see. I think that happens a bit in Chilean towards Peruvians/Bolivians but it's mostly working class people who tend to be more narrow-minded. People from rural areas are also like that.. But like people my age aren't like that at all. The Chilean youth tends to be very open-minded towards all of the social issues including immigration.

Yep I read about it! Is it Revolucão Constitucionalista in Portuguese? That's awesome how you guys stood up agains the whole country haha I'm truly impressed.. and yeah I did see the obelisk indeed. Very nice. I think our last war was the "Guerra del Pacifico".. which is when Bolivia became a landlocked country :P

Yes, Revolução de 1932. We even built our own tanks and airplanes. You can go inside the obelisk and visit the resting place of the buried soldiers. Quite creepy.

Most Paulistas don't like Dilma nor the Labour Party which she belongs too. Brazil is basically divided in two: the left-wing north and the right-wing south.

I met this Chilean friend during my highschool years. He came to Brazil with his family because his father, which worked for a copper mining company, was transferred to São Paulo to manage business and contracts with some Brazilian companies. I forgot the name of the company his father worked to, but I recall it was a big one. I am not sure, but I think it was Codelco. He returned to Chile after we finished high school to study at UPC. A good man, I miss him.

[Brighton]

Yes, Revolução de 1932. We even built our own tanks and airplanes. You can go inside the obelisk and visit the resting place of the buried soldiers. Quite creepy.

Most Paulistas don't like Dilma nor the Labour Party which she belongs too. Brazil is basically divided in two: the left-wing north and the right-wing south.

I met this Chilean friend during my highschool years. He came to Brazil with his family because his father, which worked for a copper mining company, was transferred to São Paulo to manage business and contracts with some Brazilian companies. I forgot the name of the company his father worked to, but I recall it was a big one. I am not sure, but I think it was Codelco. He returned to Chile after we finished high school to study at UPC. A good man, I miss him.
That dude Getulio Vargas sounded like a dick. Did you guys have many dictators in the 20th century? We only had Pinochet but he was such a sadist that it counted for like five dictators.

Yep I reckon I had read about that. Same in Chile though, just less polarised – the mining left-wing North and the farming right-wing South. Then you've got wealthier right-wing Eastern Santiago and poorer left-wing Southwestern Santiago. This is a map of the 2010 elections red being centre-left and blue being centre-right. It confirms what I say:

https://welections.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/chile-2010.png?w=604

Awesome. Codelco is our state-owned copper company and the biggest mining undertaking in Chile. The only foreign classmate I had in highschool was this German girl who studied abroad for a term. One of my closest friends was born in Spain but she came to Chile when she was like 2 so she've always spoken Chilean. The year below mine had more foreigners though, one Danish dude and two guys from Belgium.

[Tooting Carmen]

I do know Latin Americans in general tend to be very found of having a big size government, which in my personal opinion is bad cos makes people too dependant on welfare.

That's a decidedly ludicrous generalisation. Compared to European welfare states, Latin American ones (such as they even exist at all) are VERY small-scale and limited in scope. There is a lot more private education and healthcare in Latin America than in Europe. Quite a few Latin American countries, including Colombia, Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador, are generally regarded as being among the most trade union-unfriendly countries in the world. Brazil is rivalled only by South Africa in being the world's most unequal country. In short, the idea that Latin Americans are overwhelmingly uber-progresistas is so far from the truth it is not even funny.

[Brighton]

That's a decidedly ludicrous generalisation. Compared to European welfare states, Latin American ones (such as they even exist at all) are VERY small-scale and limited in scope.

"When it comes to the size of government, Hispanics are more likely than the general public to say they would rather have a bigger government which provides more services than a smaller government which provides fewer services.

Some 75% of Hispanics hold this view; just 19% say they prefer a smaller government. By contrast, just 41% of the public at large voice support for a bigger government."

http://www.pewresearch.org/daily-number/hispanics-favor-bigger-role-for-government/

That was my point. If the political classes listen to them is a different thing.

[Brighton]

"When it comes to the size of government, Hispanics are more likely than the general public to say they would rather have a bigger government which provides more services than a smaller government which provides fewer services.

Some 75% of Hispanics hold this view; just 19% say they prefer a smaller government. By contrast, just 41% of the public at large voice support for a bigger government."

http://www.pewresearch.org/daily-number/hispanics-favor-bigger-role-for-government/

That was my point. If the political classes listen to them is a different thing.

--

Also there are plenty of countries -besides South Africa- that are more unequal than Brazil such as Colombia, Honduras, Haiti, Botswana, CAF, Namibia etc

[Tooting Carmen]

"When it comes to the size of government, Hispanics are more likely than the general public to say they would rather have a bigger government which provides more services than a smaller government which provides fewer services.

Some 75% of Hispanics hold this view; just 19% say they prefer a smaller government. By contrast, just 41% of the public at large voice support for a bigger government."

http://www.pewresearch.org/daily-number/hispanics-favor-bigger-role-for-government/

That was my point. If the political classes listen to them is a different thing.

But Hispanics in the US aren't entirely the same as the ones "back home" though. If anything they tend to be (in relative terms at least) even poorer for a start, especially once you leave out the Miami Cubans. While it is true that there are several Leftist (of varying degrees) governments in the region nowadays, this wasn't always the case. Moreover, even in recent years Mexico, Colombia, Chile and much of Central America have still had elected centre-right governments.

[Tooting Carmen]

--

Also there are plenty of countries -besides South Africa- that are more unequal than Brazil such as Colombia, Honduras, Haiti, Botswana, CAF, Namibia etc

Three of those you mentioned are also in Latin America (yes, Haiti counts too), so my point still stands - if Latin Americans were really so genuinely left-wing, then their countries wouldn't be so exceptionally unequal.

[Brighton]

But Hispanics in the US aren't entirely the same as the ones "back home" though. If anything they tend to be (in relative terms at least) even poorer for a start, especially once you leave out the Miami Cubans. While it is true that there are several Leftist (of varying degrees) governments in the region nowadays, this wasn't always the case. Moreover, even in recent years Mexico, Colombia, Chile and much of Central America have still had elected centre-right governments.
First generation Hispanics are even more statist than third generation Hispanics, meaning Hispanics closer to their countries are actually more statist.

Chile elected a centre-right government before but the people still were quite statist –and that considering Chile is among the least statist countries. People want free education, free healthcare, state-run social security system, blah blah blah.. It hasn't happened cos luckily for us our political class is responsible. But to be completely honest, if it was up to the people, Latin America would be even more statist than Europe.

Even if you look at the Economic Freedom Index map, the only countries relatively free are Chile and Colombia.. all of the other countries are more statist than the average European country..

[Brighton]

Three of those you mentioned are also in Latin America (yes, Haiti counts too), so my point still stands - if Latin Americans were really so genuinely left-wing, then their countries wouldn't be so exceptionally unequal.
Yep, you still don't get my point.

Political class =/= Society.

Society is indeed very statist –I haven't said left-wing, there are plenty of right-wing people who are quite statist, for instance the military-, but the political classes are not, except in a few cases –Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, Argentina- where inequality has shrunk anyway.

[Tooting Carmen]

Even if you look at the Economic Freedom Index map, the only countries relatively free are Chile and Colombia.. all of the other countries are more statist than the average European country..

It depends on how these things are measured, and what is being measured. It is true that the initial process of starting a business in many Latin American countries is often slow, bureaucratic, inefficient and corrupt. On the other hand, I seriously doubt that any country in Latin America has levels of taxation and state spending comparable to e.g. Scandinavia and France. (Cuba doesn't count - it is an outlier, of course).

[Brighton]

It depends on how these things are measured, and what is being measured. It is true that the initial process of starting a business in many Latin American countries is often slow, bureaucratic, inefficient and corrupt. On the other hand, I seriously doubt that any country in Latin America has levels of taxation and state spending comparable to e.g. Scandinavia and France. (Cuba doesn't count - it is an outlier, of course).
Yep true but Sweden or Denmark aren't as statist as they used to be. UK is also going on the opposite way. Europeans are trying to spend less.

I still think Latin American societies rely too much on the state welfare and expect too much from the state. If the latter fulfills this desires is another thing – but either the case, Latinos tend to expect a lot from the state. It's a culture different to the Anglo-saxon one.

[Tooting Carmen]

Yep true but Sweden or Denmark aren't as statist as they used to be. UK is also going on the opposite way. Europeans are trying to spend less.

I still think Latin American societies rely too much on the state welfare and expect too much from the state. If the latter fulfills this desires is another thing – but either the case, Latinos tend to expect a lot from the state. It's a culture different to the Anglo-saxon one.

Didn't you yourself say in another thread that, in Chile, "el que no trabaja no come", to which Han Cholo replied it is the same in Mexico?

[Smaug]

That dude Getulio Vargas sounded like a dick. Did you guys have many dictators in the 20th century? We only had Pinochet but he was such a sadist that it counted for like five dictators.

Yep I reckon I had read about that. Same in Chile though, just less polarised – the mining left-wing North and the farming right-wing South. Then you've got wealthier right-wing Eastern Santiago and poorer left-wing Southwestern Santiago. This is a map of the 2010 elections red being centre-left and blue being centre-right. It confirms what I say:

https://welections.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/chile-2010.png?w=604

Awesome. Codelco is our state-owned copper company and the biggest mining undertaking in Chile. The only foreign classmate I had in highschool was this German girl who studied abroad for a term. One of my closest friends was born in Spain but she came to Chile when she was like 2 so she've always spoken Chilean. The year below mine had more foreigners though, one Danish dude and two guys from Belgium.

Between 1964 and 1985, about the same period as the Pinochet regime, Brazil was a military dictatorship. We wern't controlled by a "strong" leader like Pinochet, but by a military council represented by many "presidents" elected in highly controversial elections.

It's interesting, São Paulo is the opposite of the Santiago: here the west half of the city is rich and the east is poor, like in the post-unification Berlim. On my city it would be like this: richright-wing West and South, and poor left-wing North and East. As for Brazil, you can check this map:

https://fernandonogueiracosta.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/votacao-para-presidente-no-segundo-turno-de-2010.png?w=869

At my university there are many foreigners. The ones I think of/know: one German guy, a French girl, one Canadian guy, three Portuguese and two Argentineans. During my high school years the only foreigners we had were Argentineans, and my Chilean friend. Since we are all neighbours we do not find Argentineans and Chileans to be "alien" of any sort, actually even the Europeans we've got here don't behave in that stereotypical "gringo" way. Maybe because they are here to study instead of making tourism.

[SupaThug]

It's interesting, São Paulo is the opposite of the Santiago: here the west half of the city is rich and the east is poor

Not really!East São Paulo is just stereotyped as been poor(because it really used to be the poorest area of the city by a far margin),but there are many fancy areas in East São Paulo.It used to be the poorest area of the city,nowadays it is not much different than other parts of the city,it has poor and rich neighborhoods.

[Smaug]

Not really!East São Paulo is just stereotyped as been poor(because it really used to be the poorest area of the city by a far margin),but there are many fancy areas in East São Paulo.It used to be the poorest area of the city,nowadays it is not much different than other parts of the city,it has poor and rich neighborhoods.

East São Paulo still houses the big Northeastern working-class neighbourhoods, and it is YES poorer than the West Zone.

[SupaThug]

East São Paulo still houses the big Northeastern working-class neighbourhoods, and it is YES poorer than the West Zone.

West São Paulo is much smaller than East São Paulo,you can't compare them.Compare East São Paulo with North and South São Paulo,you'd see that all regions have poor and rich neighborhoods.It's good to remember that West São Paulo has some poor parts too.

[Smaug]

West São Paulo is much smaller than East São Paulo,you can't compare them.Compare East São Paulo with North and South São Paulo,you'd see that all regions have poor and rich neighborhoods.It's good to remember that West São Paulo has some poor parts too.

:confused:

[SupaThug]

:confused:

Wealthy places in East São Paulo:Tatuapé,Jardim Anália Franco,Jardim Avelino,Jardim Têxtil,Mooca...
Poor places in East São Paulo:Guaianazes,Itaim Paulista,Cidade Tiradentes,Iguatemi...

Wealthy places in West São Paulo: Perdizes,Alto da Lapa,Vila Leopoldina...
Poor places in West São Paulo:Rio Pequeno,Raposo Tavares,parts of Vila Sônia...

You see,we can make a list of rich and poor places for any part of the city,saying East São Paulo is the poor side and West São Paulo is the rich will give people a wrong image of the city,wealth is not only in a part of the city.South West São Paulo is definitly the richest area of the city,it's a fact...but you can't say that east São Paulo is a poor one because it has many fancy areas too.Anyway most places in East São Paulo are middle class,I live here since I was born I know what I am talking about very well.

Some cool maps about the city

HDI

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Mapa_IDH_cidade_de_S%C3%A3o_Paulo_Modificado.png

Average Household income

http://atlasambiental.prefeitura.sp.gov.br/conteudo/socioeconomia/socioeco_04.jpg

[Smaug]

Wealthy places in East São Paulo:Tatuapé,Jardim Anália Franco,Jardim Avelino,Jardim Têxtil,Mooca...
Poor places in East São Paulo:Guaianazes,Itaim Paulista,Cidade Tiradentes,Iguatemi...

Wealthy places in West São Paulo: Perdizes,Alto da Lapa,Vila Leopoldina...
Poor places in West São Paulo:Rio Pequeno,Raposo Tavares,parts of Vila Sônia...

You see,we can make a list of rich and poor places for any part of the city,saying East São Paulo is the poor side and West São Paulo is the rich will give people a wrong image of the city,wealth is not only in a part of the city.South West São Paulo is definitly the richest area of the city,it's a fact...but you can't say that east São Paulo is a poor one because it has many fancy areas too.Anyway most places in East São Paulo are middle class,I live here since I was born I know what I am talking about very well.

Some cool maps about the city

HDI

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Mapa_IDH_cidade_de_S%C3%A3o_Paulo_Modificado.png

Average Household income

http://atlasambiental.prefeitura.sp.gov.br/conteudo/socioeconomia/socioeco_04.jpg

You are just proving my point. The richest, most urbanized and cleanest part of São Paulo is the West and the South, specially the region between the rivers Pinheiros and Tietê. I was born in Moema.

[SupaThug]

You are just proving my point. The richest, most urbanized and cleanest part of São Paulo is the West and the South, specially the region between the rivers Pinheiros and Tietê. I was born in Moema.

I am not proving your point,you said the East is poor and the West is rich(it really is the richest area of the city)while there are rich and poor places in both Regions.I am from the area of Tatuapé,I lived all my life between Tatuapé,Vila Formosa and Carrão and I can make you sure that our infrastucture is as good as the one from many places in West and South São Paulo.

[Smaug]

I am not proving your point,you said the East is poor and the West is rich(it really is the richest area of the city)while there are rich and poor places in both Regions.I am from the area of Tatuapé,I lived all my life between Tatuapé,Vila Formosa and Carrão and I can make you sure that our infrastucture is as good as the one from many places in West and South São Paulo.

I have friends in Tatuapé, Ipiranga and Pirituba, and trust me, these places still don't look very good, even with their good infrastructure.

[SupaThug]

I have friends in Tatuapé, Ipiranga and Pirituba, and trust me, these places still don't look very good, even with their good infrastructure.

Beauty is on the eye of the beholder...

http://www.arrobacasa.com.br/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Edifica%C3%A7%C3%A3o-da-Casa-do-Regente-Feij%C3%B3-o-antigo-Lar-An%C3%A1lia-Franco.jpg

Is this place bad-looking?

[Smaug]

Beauty is on the eye of the beholder...

http://www.arrobacasa.com.br/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Edifica%C3%A7%C3%A3o-da-Casa-do-Regente-Feij%C3%B3-o-antigo-Lar-An%C3%A1lia-Franco.jpg

Is this place bad-looking?

Not really, but compared to some of the richest parts following the Pinheiros River, it is. I am not saying that I like it, don't take me wrong. I am studying civil engineering, I look foward to one day help this city become a better place for all of us. I live in Pinheiros by the way.

[SupaThug]

Not really, but compared to some of the richest parts following the Pinheiros River, it is. I am not saying that I like it, don't take me wrong. I am studying civil engineering, I look foward to one day help this city become a better place for all of us. I live in Pinheiros by the way.

I don't think that the borders of Pinheiros river look better than Jardim Anália Franco f.e,my father works in Vila Olímpia and I'd rather still living in my area than moving to the South West part of the city...as I said beauty is on the beholder.Vila Formosa is one of the most green places in São Paulo,it looks like city in the countryside.

[Smaug]

I don't think that the borders of Pinheiros river look better than Jardim Anália Franco f.e,my father works in Vila Olímpia and I'd rather still living in my area than moving to the South West part of the city...as I said beauty is on the beholder.Vila Formosa is one of the most green places in São Paulo,it looks like city in the countryside.

The thing I hate about SP is that most of our architecture consists of buildings shaped after ugly grey boxes:

http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Economia_Negocios/foto/0,,21660448-EX,00.jpg

[SupaThug]

The thing I hate about SP is that most of our architecture consists of buildings shaped after ugly grey boxes:

http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Economia_Negocios/foto/0,,21660448-EX,00.jpg

Yes,they are plague!I don't know why the architets from here love this ''brutalist'' style :(

[Smaug]

Yes,they are plague!I don't know why the architets from here love this ''burtalist'' style :(

I guess it's because it is easier, cheaper and faster to be built, what makes sense if we consider our "economic boom" during the years these pieces of shit were built.

[Brighton]

Between 1964 and 1985, about the same period as the Pinochet regime, Brazil was a military dictatorship. We wern't controlled by a "strong" leader like Pinochet, but by a military council represented by many "presidents" elected in highly controversial elections.

It's interesting, São Paulo is the opposite of the Santiago: here the west half of the city is rich and the east is poor, like in the post-unification Berlim. On my city it would be like this: richright-wing West and South, and poor left-wing North and East. As for Brazil, you can check this map:

https://fernandonogueiracosta.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/votacao-para-presidente-no-segundo-turno-de-2010.png?w=869

At my university there are many foreigners. The ones I think of/know: one German guy, a French girl, one Canadian guy, three Portuguese and two Argentineans. During my high school years the only foreigners we had were Argentineans, and my Chilean friend. Since we are all neighbours we do not find Argentineans and Chileans to be "alien" of any sort, actually even the Europeans we've got here don't behave in that stereotypical "gringo" way. Maybe because they are here to study instead of making tourism.
Yeah that was actually the idea at the beginning, like they wanted to have one president per year or something, first the Military, then the Air Force, then the Marines, etc.. but Pinochet was so controlling he ended up being the only President. Then they wrote this Constitution and it went through 'elections' but they were corrupt as fuck.. let's call it highly controversial as well haha.

Since when do you have proper democracy then? 1985?

--

Yep I think it's like that in most cities. In London the West is wealthy and then the South East is the poorest area.. although in NYC the wealthy neighbourhood is the Upper East Side.. haha but yah, in the case of Santiago the East is wealthier cos it's where the Andes are and so people can build up their houses at a high altitude to escape from the smoggy city centre. Although there are many industries in Western Santiago, hence even more smog.

My district (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Florida,_Chile) is funny haha cos it's very middle class and so the vote is nearly always very splitted. So we've got two MPs –cos in Chile every district has two MPs-, one from the Communist Party –most leftist party around here- and the other from the UDI – most conservative party. Then our mayor is also from the UDI but he is gay and he got authorisation from the government to grow medicinal marijuana.. so he actually is quite liberal but still from the most right wing party – only place in Chile where medicinal marijuana is legal btw

--

Which Uni do you attend?? Sounds pretty international! My Uni's got plenty of foreign students (mostly UK/USA) studying abroad but most of them are studying Spanish/History/Liberal Arts in general.. and Law's got its own campus so we never see them. We do have international students but not exchange students – they've been living in Chile for a while already.. I can think of many Argentins –two of my best friends at Uni are from Buenos Aires-, one Uruguayan, one Brazilian, one Spaniard, one American.. they've all integrated pretty well I'd say.

[Tooting Carmen]

As a side note, the poorest part of London is East-Central London - Hackney, Tower Hamlets and Newham - not Southeast London, although Lambeth and Southwark are quite poor too.

[Brighton]

As a side note, the poorest part of London is East-Central London - Hackney, Tower Hamlets and Newham - not Southeast London, although Lambeth and Southwark are quite poor too.
Yep true but still in general terms West London is richer than East London – that was my point.

There are always exceptions.. There are actually very poor areas in East Santiago –some areas in Peñalolén especially– and fairly wealthy areas in West Santiago –some upper-middle condos in Maipu or Pudahuel if you guys ever see a map of Santiago haha-.. but in general East Santiago is wealthier, as you can see in this map:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/SantiagoIDHcomunas.png

So in the same way, saying that East London is poorer is a generalisation, but it's still very true.

[Chiyo]

Edited and moved to a correct thread.

[Carlito's Way]

Spanish people all(the ones ive seen) show and come out with Italian, French/German and Irish/English

from what i know and remember seeing, Northern Spaniards do come out with French/German and Irish/English
all Spaniards ive seen have come out with Italian

heck even Northern Italians also come out with French/German


the majority of the Latin Americans will not have all those ancestries, its coming via their Spanish side, that is all