Atheism and Objectivism

[KeinMitleid]

Do you feel that Atheism is a false objectivism, just as God is?

[Aviator]

Atheists claim that they know for sure that no religion is true, thus, they are taking a leap of faith just like a religious person does.

[KeinMitleid]

Atheists claim that they know for sure that no religion is true, thus, they are taking a leap of faith just like a religious person does.

I agree. But I see your religious views are listed as agnostic. So in other words you base your spirituality on unsurity.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Atheists claim that they know for sure that no religion is true, thus, they are taking a leap of faith just like a religious person does.

I'm not an atheist but your argument is the equivalent of saying I'm taking a leap of faith when I say Zeus and the other ancient Greek gods don't exist. There has to be either evidence or a logical argument for a belief not to be tossed away as nonsense.

[Aviator]

I agree. But I see your religious views are listed as agnostic. So in other words you base your spirituality on unsurity.

Basically, I just admit that mankind currently has no possible way to prove or disprove the existence of a divine being or an afterlife.

[KeinMitleid]

I'm not an atheist but your argument is the equivalent of saying I'm taking a leap of faith when I say Zeus and the other ancient Greek gods don't exist. There has to be either evidence or a logical argument for a belief not to be tossed away as nonsense.

But you are, in a sense. There is no such thing as absolute truth or value.

[Aviator]

I'm not an atheist but your argument is the equivalent of saying I'm taking a leap of faith when I say Zeus and the other ancient Greek gods don't exist. There has to be either evidence or a logical argument for a belief not to be tossed away as nonsense.

Obviously. But that doesn't mean we can completely rule out something similar from being true. Besides, Greek mythology has just as much evidence for it as any other religion.

[Sakis]

Basically, I just admit that mankind currently has no possible way to prove or disprove the existence of a divine being or an afterlife.

Yes but we can neither disprove the existence of anything that we haven't seen.Isn't it a stupid argument?

[Aviator]

Yes but we can neither disprove the existence of anything that we haven't seen.Isn't it a stupid argument?

Kind of, yeah. Which is why discussions over such matters are trivial, and should be put on the back burner.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Obviously. But that doesn't mean we can completely rule out something similar from being true.

Might as well believe in the existence of smurfs.


Besides, Greek mythology has just as much evidence for it as any other religion.

Which is none.

[Aviator]

Might as well believe in the existence of smurfs.



Which is none.

I don't quite take it to that extreme.

This sums me up well:

Guy: "Hey BlondeF22, do you believe in God?"

Me: "I don't know, and I don't really care."

[Svipdag]

Atheists claim that they know for sure that no religion is true, thus, they are taking a leap of faith just like a religious person does.

EXACTLY ! In fact, Atheism requires at least as much faith as any "other" religion. This is why I have been an agnostic for 66 years. I know of no definitive proof that God does NOT exist. I know of no way to prove that God does NOT exist. Therefore, if I were to insist dogmatically that God does not exist, that assertion could only be based on strong FAITH in God's non-existence.

I have no such faith and, therefore, cannot be an Atheist. I am still amenable to persuasion either way, though, I must admit, that some of the curious "coincidences" in physics and cosmology lead me to suspect that the parameters of the primordial explosion and the values of the fundamental constants of physics have been "manipulated" to yield a universe fit for the existence of intelligent life.

[zhaoyun]

EXACTLY ! In fact, Atheism requires at least as much faith as any "other" religion. This is why I have been an agnostic for 66 years. I know of no definitive proof that God does NOT exist. I know of no way to prove that God does NOT exist. Therefore, if I were to insist dogmatically that God does not exist, that assertion could only be based on strong FAITH in God's non-existence.

I have no such faith and, therefore, cannot be an Atheist. I am still amenable to persuasion either way, though, I must admit, that some of the curious "coincidences" in physics and cosmology lead me to suspect that the parameters of the primordial explosion and the values of the fundamental constants of physics have been "manipulated" to yield a universe fit for the existence of intelligent life.

THIS. I agree completely.

Frankly, I am not religious because I have not seen any proof to support any religious dogma. However, I am not arrogant to claim with full certainty that no supernatural force exists in this world, it very well may exist. However, I am almost certain that humans have not come to a full understanding of it, and certainly not with the man made constructs developed one or two millennia ago aka as religion.

[armenianbodyhair]

Absolutely. Agnosticism is the only certainty.

[Sakis]

The point is that those that believe in a god bear the burden of proof and not the opposite.This is the main argument of atheists.

[Tchek]

Atheism is the new fundamentalism. This is a growing phenomenon: I've seen self-proclaimed atheists (mostly university students in their 20's) going absolutely MENTAL when they hear someone considering the eventual existence of god. Let alone the actual French government which is pushing so-called "secularism" with the same zeal as medieval inquisitors...
Basically atheism (being Agnostic myself) follow the same codes and behaviours as religious fundamentalism, with their "Dogmas" and their struggle against "Heresies".

[Insuperable]

I'm not an atheist but your argument is the equivalent of saying I'm taking a leap of faith when I say Zeus and the other ancient Greek gods don't exist. There has to be either evidence or a logical argument for a belief not to be tossed away as nonsense.


Might as well believe in the existence of smurfs.

Can the same be said when it just comes to the existence of God?

[Unome]

Atheists use science to judge the world, and often treat science like a religion.

Religious people use faith to judge the world.

[alfieb]

I agree. But I see your religious views are listed as agnostic. So in other words you base your spirituality on unsurity.

Anyone who claims to be an atheist is lying. There's just varying degrees of agnosticism. Even a guy like Dawkins admits that he's not a true atheist, because there's always that chance in the back of his mind.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfk7tW429E4

[Sakis]

Atheists use science to judge the world, and often treat science like a religion.

Religious people use faith to judge the world.

Atheists don't judge the world,theists do.

[Sakis]

Anyone who claims to be an atheist is lying. There's just varying degrees of agnosticism. Even a guy like Dawkins admits that he's not a true atheist, because there's always that chance in the back of his mind.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfk7tW429E4

Atheism means that you don't worship a god not that you know that gods don't exist.

[alfieb]

Atheism means that you don't worship a god
Not really. You can be "spiritual" and not worship a god. You can be a satanist and not worship a god. You can worship your ancestors, etc. Atheists aren't spiritual at all. They believe in science, not the paranormal or the mythological.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Can the same be said when it just comes to the existence of God.

Pretty much. I place the possibility of existence of a high power on math and reincarnation.

There is strong evidence for reincarnation. I say this with despair. The idea that I'll be reborn and that my current self will be washed away except for some residual is highly upsetting to me.

I find it difficult to believe order in the world came from nothing. Math is order. It is the key to the universe and the knife in the heart of randomness. That the world isn't as random as should be expected makes me think there is a greater mind, for lack of a better word, at work. Of course, I could come up with an argument against what I just said but at this point what I mentioned is a better argument to me.

[Unome]

Atheists don't judge the world,theists do.
I find atheists to be much more judgmental, about the world and other people, than theists.

The difference is that theists are proud & vocal about judging others; atheists keep opinions to themselves and publicly deny it.

[Sakis]

I find atheists to be much more judgmental, about the world and other people, than theists.

The difference is that theists are proud & vocal about judging others; atheists keep opinions to themselves and publicly deny it.

Only the famous atheists may be judgmental,the everyday people that live their lives like there is no god don't care about the others.

[Insuperable]

Pretty much.

I don't think that belief in the existence of smurfs is a decent comparison to the belief in the existence of God. By God people assume an uncaused eternal Creator who created everything including smurfs and fairies if they exist. Human mind has a power to postulate such Creator and it is a hypothesis which it seems nobody can confirm nor reject. In that sense we all should be agnostics.


I place the possibility of existence of a high power on math and reincarnation. I find it difficult to believe order in the world came from nothing. Math is order. It is the key to the universe and the knife in the heart of randomness. That the world isn't as random as should be expected makes me think there is a greater mind, for lack of a better word, at work. Of course, I could come up with an argument against what I just said but at this point what I mentioned is a better argument to me.

Many mathematicians would agree what you say here about math and would believe that the world was created by God and those who are not religious would say the same about math so I don't see the point of bringing the math into this. Various people have their various reasons for the way they see the world and everything else in this regard.
Also you shouldn't base your thinking on what you find very upsetting and similar thoughts and feelings, that is for theists.;)

[Immortal Technique]

I don't think that belief in the existence of smurfs is a decent comparison to the belief in the existence of God. By God people assume an uncaused eternal Creator who created everything including smurfs and fairies if they exist. Human mind has a power to postulate such Creator and it is a hypothesis which it seems nobody can confirm nor reject. In that sense we all should be agnostics.

Agree with my homie.



Many mathematicians would agree what you say here about math and would believe that the world was created by God and those who are not religious would say the same about math so I don't see the point of bringing the math into this. Various people have their various reasons for the way they see the world and everything else in this regard.
Also you shouldn't base your judgement on what you find very upsetting and similar thoughts and feelings, that is for theists.;)

[Sakis]

I don't think that belief in the existence of smurfs is a decent comparison to the belief in the existence of God. By God people assume an uncaused eternal Creator who created everything including smurfs and fairies if they exist. Human mind has a power to postulate such Creator and it is a hypothesis which it seems nobody can confirm nor reject. In that sense we all should be agnostics.

And what happens if some may say that the smurfs are gods and created the universe.Dead end.

[Manifest Destiny]

I agree. But I see your religious views are listed as agnostic. So in other words you base your spirituality on unsurity.

That's the most logical approach. Theism and atheism are, as he pointed out, based on faith.

[Manifest Destiny]

I'm not an atheist but your argument is the equivalent of saying I'm taking a leap of faith when I say Zeus and the other ancient Greek gods don't exist. There has to be either evidence or a logical argument for a belief not to be tossed away as nonsense.

The argument for atheism is basically, "If I can't see it, it can't possibly exist." You don't see a logical problem with that view?

[Insuperable]

And what happens if some may say that the smurfs are gods and created the universe.Dead end.

But that is just useless playing with words. With a bit of deeper and non-biased thinking you should see that. Everyone can play with words. For example: God is someone who created the Universe including people who came up with the existence of smurfs. Sure, deep down this is more of a belief, but I hope you can see where I am getting too. The reason why people play with words in that sense is because they don't respect the hypothesis and deep down they are making fun of it. When people make arguments for the existence of God like those mentioned by Svipdag in a previous page I am sure nobody has smurfs on their mind.

[Blackfyre]

As an antheist, I do not fully reject the possibility of the existance of a unnatural greater being, much less the existance of an afterlife of sorts (the theory of the noosphere is not that insane as it seems, I must admit, given undiscovered features of human energy). As said, we can not reject the existance of a greater being just like that, but, I firmly believe that all religions are false and illogic. Even if the abrahamic god existed, I would not waste a moment to pray or praise such a being, given it's description in all three greater religious scriptures.
In general, should a progenitor of the universe exist as a, more or less, sentient cluster of energy, I doubt that it would care for praise, worship, sacrifice or other. All in all, I do not reject that such a being, or the afterlife might exist (science will prove what is right and I hope that we all adapt our thoughts according to scientific progress), I simply reject that the abrahamic god (or any other god created by an organised religion) is real or worth worshiping.

[Unome]

Only the famous atheists may be judgmental,the everyday people that live their lives like there is no god don't care about the others.
It seems like a very anti-social behavior and mindset in life.

Maybe sociability is contingent on the human need to judge and feel (morally) superior to others…

[Sakis]

But that is just useless playing with words. With a bit of deeper and non-biased thinking you should see that. Everyone can play with words. For example: God is someone who created the Universe including people who came up with the existence of smurfs. Sure, deep down this is more of a belief, but I hope you can see where I am getting too. The reason why people play with words in that sense is because they don't respect the hypothesis and deep down they are making fun of it. When people make arguments for the existence of God like those mentioned by Svipdag in a previous page I am sure nobody has smurfs on their mind.

People make arguements about the existence of God because the monotheistic religions have prevailed.

[Aviator]

And what happens if some may say that the smurfs are gods and created the universe.Dead end.

You respond to them with, "Huh, maybe."

And then you turn around and continue to focus on scientific research.

[Stimpy]

EXACTLY ! In fact, Atheism requires at least as much faith as any "other" religion. This is why I have been an agnostic for 66 years. I know of no definitive proof that God does NOT exist. I know of no way to prove that God does NOT exist. Therefore, if I were to insist dogmatically that God does not exist, that assertion could only be based on strong FAITH in God's non-existence.

I have no such faith and, therefore, cannot be an Atheist. I am still amenable to persuasion either way, though, I must admit, that some of the curious "coincidences" in physics and cosmology lead me to suspect that the parameters of the primordial explosion and the values of the fundamental constants of physics have been "manipulated" to yield a universe fit for the existence of intelligent life.
In my opinion it's better to just identify as 'non-religious' than anything else, as both the terms agnostic and atheist seem to kind of confuse people. Some also see it as if you belong to some kind of movement or ideology when that's the opposite of what you do.

I think it's still better to identify as atheist than agnostic though as it's a much better term. Atheism simply means the rejection of belief in the existence of deities, whereas agnosticism means ''no knowledge''. That you don't have enough knowledge about a subject to make a conclusion, be that god or anything else.
If you're gonna identify as agnostic, I think that you at least, if you want to use the term correctly should say that you're an ''agnostic atheist'', even though that's what everyone that identifies as just atheist obviously also are. There are agnostic theists also, you know.

[Stimpy]

THIS. I agree completely.

Frankly, I am not religious because I have not seen any proof to support any religious dogma. However, I am not arrogant to claim with full certainty that no supernatural force exists in this world, it very well may exist. However, I am almost certain that humans have not come to a full understanding of it, and certainly not with the man made constructs developed one or two millennia ago aka as religion.
But what is a supernatural force? If something really exists doesn't that make it natural? Surely if there is some kind of god in a vague sense 'he/she' or most likely 'it' would be just as natural as any other force.

[Hubal]

God needs to go fuck himself, what a douchebag he is

[Unome]

Whenever discussing god, I always begin by asking how other people define divinity.

How do you people divine god, using your own words, not using a simple dictionary or the bible???

I mean, speak from your heart… what does your soul say? If a god were to exist then how?

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

The argument for atheism is basically, "If I can't see it, it can't possibly exist." You don't see a logical problem with that view?

Hence why I pointed out you'd need a logical argument if you don't have evidence.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

I don't think that belief in the existence of smurfs is a decent comparison to the belief in the existence of God. By God people assume an uncaused eternal Creator who created everything including smurfs and fairies if they exist. Human mind has a power to postulate such Creator and it is a hypothesis which it seems nobody can confirm nor reject. In that sense we all should be agnostics.



Many mathematicians would agree what you say here about math and would believe that the world was created by God and those who are not religious would say the same about math so I don't see the point of bringing the math into this. Various people have their various reasons for the way they see the world and everything else in this regard.
Also you shouldn't base your thinking on what you find very upsetting and similar thoughts and feelings, that is for theists.;)

As I said already, there is evidence for reincarnation. Whether I like the idea or not is irrelevant to whether it's true.

Those who believe there is a higher power and point to math as evidence have a stronger argument than those who think math proves the opposite. Order can't come from randomness and math is order in the world.

[Orthogonal]

Faith does not require religion, although to reach this conclusion, both experiences of religion and atheism i.e. both extremes should be fulfilled.


Atheists use science to judge the world, and often treat science like a religion.

Using science as your reference is never a bad idea. Idiocy is when one uses simplistic tails as a reference of his morals etc...

[Prisoner Of Ice]

In general, atheist people don't really care about God. If that was the only issue then they would be as Svipdag - don't believe but not closeminded, or at least not so hostile. And realize that just because someone has some belief doesn't make them a total idiot (indeed average IQ of anglicans is 116 or something like that).

What they are really attacking is the moral core that all religions offer. Which is the more important part by far, even if there is no god this is the valuable information you need to not only survive but to pass on a legacy to your children and your children's children and protect them from harm. Atheists are always against this, always anti-family, always want to fill society with obscenity and prostitution and cheap sex, alcohol, drugs. etc. etc. etc. They want a Mc Donald's kind of society where they get anything they want with no effort, the problem is it also leads to Mc Donald's quality of society where you can have whatever you want cheaply but it's all pure shit.

[Blackfyre]

In general, atheist people don't really care about God. If that was the only issue then they would be as Svipdag - don't believe but not closeminded, or at least not so hostile. And realize that just because someone has some belief doesn't make them a total idiot (indeed average IQ of anglicans is 116 or something like that).

What they are really attacking is the moral core that all religions offer. Which is the more important part by far, even if there is no god this is the valuable information you need to not only survive but to pass on a legacy to your children and your children's children and protect them from harm. Atheists are always against this, always anti-family, always want to fill society with obscenity and prostitution and cheap sex, alcohol, drugs. etc. etc. etc. They want a Mc Donald's kind of society where they get anything they want with no effort, the problem is it also leads to Mc Donald's quality of society where you can have whatever you want cheaply but it's all pure shit.

Yes, we atheists want everyone to be homosexuals, drug addicts, prostitutes, drunktards and other. We were always against culture, morality, decency and civilisation in general. You clearly uncovered our secret agenda. How can we now hope to destroy Western Society? :(

[Prisoner Of Ice]

How can we now hope to destroy Western Society? :(

You already did and your agenda has never been secret.

[Blackfyre]

You already did and your agenda has never been secret.

You do understand I was being sarcastic, right? :picard1:

[albosomething]

You do understand I was being sarcastic, right? :picard1:

man you are everything I hate.

A leftist atheist and a mixed slavic illyrian, that's just disgusting..

vomiting right now

[Stimpy]

In general, atheist people don't really care about God. If that was the only issue then they would be as Svipdag - don't believe but not closeminded, or at least not so hostile. And realize that just because someone has some belief doesn't make them a total idiot (indeed average IQ of anglicans is 116 or something like that).

What they are really attacking is the moral core that all religions offer. Which is the more important part by far, even if there is no god this is the valuable information you need to not only survive but to pass on a legacy to your children and your children's children and protect them from harm. Atheists are always against this, always anti-family, always want to fill society with obscenity and prostitution and cheap sex, alcohol, drugs. etc. etc. etc. They want a Mc Donald's kind of society where they get anything they want with no effort, the problem is it also leads to Mc Donald's quality of society where you can have whatever you want cheaply but it's all pure shit.

Atheism simply means that you don't believe in a god. It's not some kind of big collective group/ideology/movement like religion.
Atheists can be extremely different from eachother and have very different ideas and views on things. Except, of course, their lack of a belief in god, which at least according to me isn't a big part of my identity.

[Blackfyre]

man you are everything I hate.

A leftist atheist and a mixed slavic illyrian, that's just disgusting..

vomiting right now

Why thank you, always pleasant to know that my existance is disgusting to someone. I do not see why the Yugoslavs (who are a mixture of slavs and illyrs) are disgusting to you, but guess you have your reasons and it is not the topic right now, is it? Neither do I get why you dislike slightly leftist fascism, also not the topic at hand tho.

All I ask is why so irritated about atheism?

[albosomething]

Why thank you, always pleasant to know that my existance is disgusting to someone. I do not see why the Yugoslavs (who are a mixture of slavs and illyrs) are disgusting to you, but guess you have your reasons and it is not the topic right now, is it? Neither do I get why you dislike slightly leftist fascism, also not the topic at hand tho.

All I ask is why so irritated about atheism?

first and foremost a leftist believes that everyone deserves equal opportunity, and everyone is equal which is simply not true , proved by many empirical evidence.
second, socialism is a failed system which only a fully retarded dude can support.
and third being mixed my kind with someone who openly did/wants a genocide is worse than being mixed with a non euro.



I dont give a shit about atheists who are older generations , I have a thing against the antitheists who love themselves without no reason whatsoever, saying that morals in religion and bad, religious states are bad(as i atheistic ones are fucking awesome) , and last but not least, their 200 IQ .. they make melonhead look humble and that says alot

[Blackfyre]

first and foremost a leftist believes that everyone deserves equal opportunity, and everyone is equal which is simply not true , proved by many empirical evidence.
second, socialism is a failed system which only a fully retarded dude can support.
and third being mixed my kind with someone who openly did/wants a genocide is worse than being mixed with a non euro.



I dont give a shit about atheists who are older generations , I have a thing against the antitheists who love themselves without no reason whatsoever, saying that morals in religion and bad, religious states are bad(as i atheistic ones are fucking awesome) , and last but not least, their 200 IQ .. they make melonhead look humble and that says alot

Read carefully.... Leftist Fascist... I added the leftist not to be confused why far-righters (all tho, fascism is neither left nor right wing, but as you say, to avoid further confusion to others, I might change it to Classical Facism). I believe that the state, not captialist or workers, should own the whole economy. And everyone does deserve equal chance, not outcome, not opportunity, but chance. To go to school, to get healthcare, to breed the best of the best to serve a nation.
Who said that I want genocide and what is "your" kind? But actually... all of this goes off topic.

I kinda do not get what you intented to say in the last bit tho, mind if you rephrase it to make more sense? Also, religious states are clearly wonderful to live in...

[albosomething]

Read carefully.... Leftist Fascist... I added the leftist not to be confused why far-righters (all tho, fascism is neither left nor right wing, but as you say, to avoid further confusion to others, I might change it to Classical Facism). I believe that the state, not captialist or workers, should own the whole economy. And everyone does deserve equal chance, not outcome, not opportunity, but chance. To go to school, to get healthcare, to breed the best of the best to serve a nation.
Who said that I want genocide and what is "your" kind? But actually... all of this goes off topic.

I kinda do not get what you intented to say in the last bit tho, mind if you rephrase it to make more sense? Also, religious states are clearly wonderful to live in...

as are communist countries and other godless states..

I dont mind atheists who mind their own business(they are usually older generations) but I do hate anti theists who have inflated egos and put down theists. Antitheists have become everything they hate .

[Insuperable]

People make arguements about the existence of God because the monotheistic religions have prevailed.

Well sure, maybe there wouldn't be say Deism if not for monotheistic religions.


As I said already, there is evidence for reincarnation. Whether I like the idea or not is irrelevant to whether it's true.

There are arguments at best since you can always find criticism from scientific community otherwise we can claim that arguments for the existence of God are evidences, but you can't have evidences or proofs unless their is a high level of confidence and general agreement.


Those who believe there is a higher power and point to math as evidence have a stronger argument than those who think math proves the opposite. Order can't come from randomness and math is order in the world.

Math is held in the same regard by those too with the exception that people besides it added a God who think that behind the order there is God and mathematics is a tool which exists because of that, because of laws, relationships between laws and potentially can be applied to even the most abstract of things with no application to physics simply because there is a mind and world which exists governed by these laws in the first place. It is just a variant of the argument regarding smurfs.

[Blackfyre]

as are communist countries and other godless states..

I dont mind atheists who mind their own business(they are usually older generations) but I do hate anti theists who have inflated egos and put down theists. Antitheists have become everything they hate .

True that, antithesist Internet knights are an insult to other atheist, as their ways seem to be exactly like radical theists. Frankly atheism does not need those "brave fighters" on the Internet, science will do enough for our cause.

Also, who said anything about atheist states, secular states is all we need (forced atheism is the same as forced religion)

[albosomething]

True that, antithesist Internet knights are an insult to other atheist, as their ways seem to be exactly like radical theists. Frankly atheism does not need those "brave fighters" on the Internet, science will do enough for our cause.

Also, who said anything about atheist states, secular states is all we need (forced atheism is the same as forced religion)

amazingly enough, I agree.


Science though is an everchanging subject, I take everything from it with a bit of reserves, cultural traditons and religious traditions (morals and whatever) should exist .


Liberal economics and culturally conservative is the way to go.

[Dandelion]

Atheists claim that they know for sure that no religion is true, thus, they are taking a leap of faith just like a religious person does.

There could be a god. But I am near quite certain the Abrahamic God is a product of human imagination and only exists like this (as imagination exists, though not materially, in that regard every god exists). In that way I do call myself an atheist, as I don't worship a god nor think if one exists it expects us to worship it. One might also call it a leap of faith, but I think the lack of proof for the Abrahamic God as well as the primitive mythology and morality in the scriptures seems quite a bit more far-fetched to take as the truth.

Also, I neither think us humans are the only sentient life in our vast universe, though we probably won't ever get into contract with outer-terrestrial life. We neither are 'his special creation'.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

There are arguments at best since you can always find criticism from scientific community otherwise we can claim that arguments for the existence of God are evidences, but you can't have evidences or proofs unless their is a high level of confidence and general agreement.

The scientific community is made up of human beings with typical human being flaws. When looking at someone's work you take into account if there has been similar work down by others that support the work of this individual and if hasn't been much work down or it doesn't exist, then you look at their credentials. Do they have a history of respectability? In other words is their past work done without any blemishes, or in other words have they been caught fudging numbers or have revealed to be incompetent? Also, what do others who have respectable credentials say about their work and what is the criticism or praise based on?




Math is held in the same regard by those too with the exception that people besides it added a God who think that behind the order there is God and mathematics is a tool which exists because of that, because of laws, relationships between laws and potentially can be applied to even the most abstract of things with no application to physics simply because there is a mind and world which exists governed by these laws in the first place. It is just a variant of the argument regarding smurfs.

Those people believe - even if they don't acknowledge it- that order (math, for example) had to first evolve from randomness, which is absurd.

[Svipdag]

Atheism means that you don't worship a god not that you know that gods don't exist.

Atheism is the BELIEF that there is no God. Most of the Atheists whom I have encountered assert dogmatically that God does not exist.

[Svipdag]

Please, let us not elevate science to the status of a Gospel or a revelation. Some physicists and cosmologists could use a good dose of humility. I have often shocked my students with this statement: "Not one of the laws of physics is true in the real world." But, it is true. The laws of physics are idealised., They would be true only in a world in which there is no friction, no viscosity, no air resistance, no hysteresis, elecrical resistance is independent of temperature, gases are compressed or expand either adiabatically or isothermally....
I have belabored the point enough. All of the conditions in the previous sentence DO NOT EXIST in the real world. The actual behavior of matter in the real world is not described exactly by the laws of physics.

Physicists often cannot define the things whose behaviour they describe. Too many definitions are "that which" definitions. After "that which", the next word must be a VERB . They tell us what this something DOES, not what it IS. What is matter ? "That which occupies space and has mass." (A can of worms, if ever there were one)

Newton defined mass as "quantitas materiae". So matter has quantity of matter (?) Recently, mass has been defined as "the quantitative measure of inertia. So, maybe we could say that matter occupies space (whatever THAT is) and has inertia (i.e., it resists a change in its state of motion.) But, Einstein proved that light is deflected by gravitational fields and, therefore, has mass. It is not matter because it does not occupy space. But why, then does it have inertia ? Why does ANYTHING have inertia ? The answer to this is something which physicists just HATE to say. NOBODY KNOWS.

There is no agreement among philosophers and physicists as to just what "space" is. To Kant, it was a mode of perception, to others, some kind of coordinate system . Some cosmologists seem to have revived the old "luminiferous ether" and are calling it "space", even claiming that space can spontaneiously turn into matter (whatever THAT is).

Mathematical (or conceptual) models provide a wonderful opportunity to play God. The idea is common among cosmologists that if something can be expressed mathematically, it MUST exist. They have forgotten that their mathematical models are obliged to conform
to Nature, not vice versa. Because their models are mathematically consistent, they need not make sense. The cosmologists who are so enamoured of their conceptual models have lost the capacity for self-criticism. In short, they do not realise when they are talking nonsense !

In conclusion, then, do not revere science. Scientists are fallible humans, not gods. The laws of science are not absolutely true. They are but APPROXIMATIONS. Do you seek Truth ? Then, THINK FOR YOURSELF.

[Annihilus]

Do you feel that Atheism is a false objectivism, just as God is?

This question doesn't make any sense.