If the Euro collapses, what effects would it have on the US dollar?

[poiuytrewq0987]

Discuss.

[Wulfhere]

I think it would be really funny if the euro collapsed. That would just leave the pound as the only viable, world currency in any part of Europe.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I think it would be really funny if the euro collapsed. That would just leave the pound as the only viable, world currency in any part of Europe.

I don't think it would. The US dollar is already a reserve currency throughout most of the world. The US dollar also has a lower inflation (2.9%) compared to the Pound's 3.7% inflation.

[Wulfhere]

I don't think it would. The US dollar is already a reserve currency throughout most of the world. The US dollar also has a lower inflation (2.9%) compared to the Pound's 3.7% inflation.

I was referring to a currency from Europe. The collapse of the euro - a benighted project right from the start - would benefit both the pound and the dollar. European countries might have to bury their pride and start using the pound.

[skyhawk]

I am no money expert so wouldn't hazzard a guess about what would happen if the Euro collapsed................but I suspect it would be hugely problematic with many adverse effects.
In the UK we have been subjected to a wholesale assault from companies wishing to snap up peoples disposable gold................which to me sends signals that those in the know are expecting some sort of currency collapse in the near future and are behind these companies...........IE wishing to exchange their currency wealth for gold.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I was referring to a currency from Europe. The collapse of the euro - a benighted project right from the start - would benefit both the pound and the dollar. European countries might have to bury their pride and start using the pound.

That's one of the possible scenarios. But what's more likely is the countries are going to revert to their currency pre-Euro and start using the US dollar (or German Mark?) as the international currency just like it was pre-Euro. I can't really see European countries use the Pound as the international currency, it's not a major reserve currency nor is it used as much in oil or gold trade.

[Wulfhere]

That's one of the possible scenarios. But what's more likely is the countries are going to revert to their currency pre-Euro and start using the US dollar (or German Mark?) as the international currency just like it was pre-Euro. I can't really see European countries use the Pound as the international currency, it's not a major reserve currency nor is it used as much in oil or gold trade.

It's the third largest reserve currency in the world, I believe. But it would be a straight choice - use the pound or the dollar. I.e., a currency of an existing EU state, or that of the U.S.

[poiuytrewq0987]

It's the third largest reserve currency in the world, I believe. But it would be a straight choice - use the pound or the dollar. I.e., a currency of an existing EU state, or that of the U.S.

We'll find out as soon as the Euro collapses. :thumb001:

[Wulfhere]

We'll find out as soon as the Euro collapses. :thumb001:

To prevent it dragging the pound down with it at that moment the UK will probably leave the EU anyway - and good riddance to it.

[Monolith]

I think it would be really funny if the euro collapsed. That would just leave the pound as the only viable, world currency in any part of Europe.
I'm afraid your currency would go down as well in that scenario, since the monetary collapse in the Eurozone would bring that huge market to its knees. Your country is far from being self-sufficient, so better pray that your trading partners stay alive and well. Considering the economic output of the Eurozone countries, their eventual crash would likely generate a depression far greater than the current one.

[poiuytrewq0987]

To prevent it dragging the pound down with it at that moment the UK will probably leave the EU anyway - and good riddance to it.

I doubt it. The people may not be pro-EU but the UK government certainly is.

[Wulfhere]

I'm afraid your currency would go down as well in that scenario, since the monetary collapse in the Eurozone would bring that huge market to its knees. Your country is far from being self-sufficient, so better pray that your trading partners stay alive and well.

Though we certainly trade with European countries a lot, our biggest single trading partner is the USA. And we're theirs, too.

[Wulfhere]

I doubt it. The people may not be pro-EU but the UK government certainly is.

That would change, I think. In any case, at this year's election I expect significant gains for the BNP (if not in MPs then certainly in terms of overall support), who are anti-EU.

[Monolith]

Though we certainly trade with European countries a lot, our biggest single trading partner is the USA. And we're theirs, too.
They would likely be in deep shit too.

[Wulfhere]

They would likely be in deep shit too.

It depends on how they handled it. I could even envisage a protectionist movement for the Anglosphere as a whole.

[poiuytrewq0987]

It depends on how they handled it. I could even envisage a protectionist movement for the Anglosphere as a whole.


lol.

You think Americans who revolted from British rule would sympathize with a failed British state? :coffee:

[Wulfhere]

lol.

You think Americans who revolted from British rule would sympathize with a failed British state? :coffee:

Lol. Well, they did in both world wars :) The UK and US are very close allies.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Lol. Well, they did in both world wars :) The UK and US are very close allies.

Yes, that's only because of the US government who chose to take that direction. The American people would rather to have nothing to do with the British people.

[Monolith]

It depends on how they handled it. I could even envisage a protectionist movement for the Anglosphere as a whole.
In that case, I can envisage quite a big increase of inflation. ;)

[Wulfhere]

Yes, that's only because of the US government who chose to take that direction. The American people would rather to have nothing to do with the British people.

Do you have any idea at all what you're talking about? British people are very popular in America.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Do you have any idea at all what you're talking about? British people are very popular in America.

Do you?

[Wulfhere]

Do you?

Yes. It is very well known. The British are respected in America for their intelligence and even for their use of language. They are sought after for employment in all fields.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Yes. It is very well known. The British are respected in America for their intelligence and even for their use of language. They are sought after for employment in all fields.

Oh wow, is that so surprising? A German with good knowledge of the English language and similar qualifications would fit in that criteria. Shocking, I know.

[Wulfhere]

Oh wow, is that so surprising? A German with good knowledge of the English language and with similar qualifications would fit in that criteria. Shocking, I know.

No, he wouldn't. That's the whole point, you see. Americans have a sense of kinship with the English that they don't with Germans. Just look at how many of us there are in top jobs in America. And vice versa too, I may add.

[poiuytrewq0987]

No, he wouldn't. That's the whole point, you see. Americans have a sense of kinship with the English that they don't with Germans. Just look at how many of us there are in top jobs in America. And vice versa too, I may add.

You're wrong. Stop trying to turn this thread into "oh look at how the British are superior". As far as I'm concerned you can go fuck off. :thumb001:

[Wulfhere]

You're wrong. Stop trying to turn this thread into "oh look at how the British are superior". As far as I'm concerned you can go fuck off. :thumb001:

It's you who are wrong mate, mainly because you know fuck all about the situation. Combined with wishful thinking and envy of Anglo-Saxon culture and kinship. And the more insults you fling, the more it proves my point.

[poiuytrewq0987]

It's you who are wrong mate, mainly because you know fuck all about the situation. Combined with wishful thinking and envy of Anglo-Saxon culture and kinship. And the more insults you fling, the more it proves my point.

No, you're so obsessed with turning everything into about you. I know a good mental hospital where you can practice your narcissism.

[Wulfhere]

No, you're so obsessed with turning everything into about you. I know a good mental hospital where you can practice your narcissism.

I rest my case.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I rest my case.

Oh, wow, you think you're so cool by trying to act all superior? News flash, nobody here likes you and your rude attitude towards other Europeans. You continue to obsess about most stupid fucking things I've ever heard in my whole life. Sovereign Merica? LOL. Daughters of Frya? LOL. LOTR mythology being tied with real life? LOL. You're just killing yourself with your utter and complete stupidity along with your delusions of grandeur.

Please commit suicide, it'll do some good to humanity.

[Taciturn]

Americans have a sense of kinship with the English that they don't with Germans.

Not true at all. More Europid Americans are of German descent than any other single European ethnicity. Actual Anglo-Americans are a very small minority in the present day USA and I can assure you that the average American feels absolutely no bond with the English at all. About ~35% of modern-day Americans are non-Europid, as well, and I guarantee you that those Americans neither feel any kinship with the English nor even respect them at all.

See this:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762137.html

And this:

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/6690/census2000datatopusancepb.jpg

[Wulfhere]

Not true at all. More Europid Americans are of German descent than any other single European ethnicity. Actual Anglo-Americans are a very small minority in the present day USA and I can assure you that the average American feels absolutely no bond with the English at all. About ~35% of modern-day Americans are non-Europid, as well, and I guarantee you that those Americans neither feel any kinship with the English nor even respect them at all.

See this:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762137.html

And this:

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/6690/census2000datatopusancepb.jpg

Yes, I've heard this before, but it's actually crap. It's not based on actual ethnicity, but on what people put on census forms. Where did all those original inhabitants of the USA come from, eh?

[Taciturn]

Yes, I've heard this before, but it's actually crap.

Nonsense.


It's not based on actual ethnicity, but on what people put on census forms.

Yes, it's based on what ethnicity people identify themselves as being.


Where did all those original inhabitants of the USA come from, eh?

Are you talking about the people who listed their ethnicity just as "American"? Those are obviously generic Europid Americans who are a combination of various European ethnicities.

[Wulfhere]

Nonsense.



Yes, it's based on what ethnicity people identify themselves as being.



Are you talking about the people who listed their ethnicity just as "American"? Those are obviously generic Europid Americans who are a combination of various European ethnicities.

You say "obviously" as if you have evidence. In fact the opposite is true - those who put American on their census are likely to be of English ethnicity. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_American

[Svanhild]

I think it would be really funny if the euro collapsed. That would just leave the pound as the only viable, world currency in any part of Europe.
Erm...no. :wink The most viable currency in any part of Europe was the DM, our Deutsche Mark. It was one of the most stable, strong and highly esteemed currencies of the world.

Before the switch to the euro, the Deutsche Mark was considered a major international reserve currency, second only to the US dollar. In many eastern European countries the DM was the inofficial local currency owing to high demand.

http://www.planet-tob1.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/dm_banknote_2592x1944.jpg

http://www.muenzauktion.com/helmig/pic/combined106673.jpg

If the Euro fails and if we reintroduce our DM, the British pound can hop it.

[Wulfhere]

Erm...no. :wink The most viable currency in any part of Europe was the DM, our Deutsche Mark. It was one of the most stable, strong and highly esteemed currencies of the world.

Before the switch to the euro, the Deutsche Mark was considered a major international reserve currency, second only to the US dollar. In many eastern European countries the DM was the inofficial local currency owing to high demand.

http://www.planet-tob1.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/dm_banknote_2592x1944.jpg

http://www.muenzauktion.com/helmig/pic/combined106673.jpg

That's true, but it's worth pointing out that the DM no longer exists. What I said about the pound would be perfectly true if the euro (the DM's successor) collapsed.

[Electronic God-Man]

Are you talking about the people who listed their ethnicity just as "American"? Those are obviously generic Europid Americans who are a combination of various European ethnicities.

Jesus titty-fucking Christ, this one has gone way off-topic.

But...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_ethnicity

The map you posted earlier shows that the South (in areas where Blacks don't predominate) is where the most people that declare themselves as ethnically American are, but they are all over. I'm sure there are a bunch of the kind of people you are talking about who would refer to themselves as "mutts" and just put "American" down for simplicity, but I'd bet a majority is English or Scottish/Scots-Irish who have colonial ancestors. The South didn't receive nearly as much later immigrants as the North and West did. That's why they account for enough to appear on that percentage map in the South.

[Taciturn]

You say "obviously" as if you have evidence. In fact the opposite is true - those who put American on their census are likely to be of English ethnicity. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_American

LOL, using a Wikipedia article--which was clearly written by Anglophiles--to try to prove your point! I checked out all of the sources listed there in support of the notion that English Americans tend to identify as simply "American" and they were pretty much all unverifiable sources.

This, right here, supports my conclusion:


Seven percent of the U.S. population reported their ancestry as American.

The number who reported American and no other ancestry increased from 12.4 million in 1990 to 20.2 million in 2000, the largest numerical growth of any group during the 1990s. This figure represents an increase of 63 percent, as the proportion rose from 5.0 percent to 7.2 percent of the population.

http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/c2kbr-35.pdf

[Psychonaut]

...but I'd bet a majority is English or Scottish/Scots-Irish who have colonial ancestors.

Yup, with an emphasis on the latter two. You'll notice that Scottish isn't an option on that map, yet the regions of the US that are known to Scottish-Americans to be the focal points of that ancestry group (North and South Carolina in particular) are all predominately 'American' on this map.

[Wulfhere]

LOL, using a Wikipedia article--which was clearly written by Anglophiles--to try to prove your point! I checked out all of the sources listed there in support of the notion that English Americans tend to identify as simply "American" and they were pretty much all unverifiable sources.

This, right here, supports my conclusion:



http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/c2kbr-35.pdf

Written by Anglophiles? Since anyone can edit Wikipedia, and the vast majority of its editors are American, there must be a hell of a lot of Anglophiles in America then!

[Wulfhere]

Yup, with an emphasis on the latter two. You'll notice that Scottish isn't an option on that map, yet the regions of the US that are known to Scottish-Americans to be the focal points of that ancestry group (North and South Carolina in particular) are all predominately 'American' on this map.

Why would there be an emphasis on the latter two? The English have always vastly outnumbered them. I suppose having such an ancestry might be trendy though among the liberals, as with an American woman I once knew who called herself Scottish, but only one of her grandparents was - the rest being English.

[Electronic God-Man]

Yup, with an emphasis on the latter two. You'll notice that Scottish isn't an option on that map, yet the regions of the US that are known to Scottish-Americans to be the focal points of that ancestry group (North and South Carolina in particular) are all predominately 'American' on this map.

While I'm thinking about it...I'd like to see a version of that map that mutes the African-American population so we can see the White South better. I'd guess that the rest of the South even outside the Appalachians would be American as well. I think it is the heavily Black counties that are blocking the American count in the South rather than Scots-Irish areas shining through in spots.

Ultimately, it's people of old stock English and Scots-Irish whose numbers weren't off-set by the Polaks and Eye-ties. :D

[Psychonaut]

Why would there be an emphasis on the latter two? The English have always vastly outnumbered them. I suppose having such an ancestry might be trendy though among the liberals, as with an American woman I once knew who called herself Scottish, but only one of her grandparents was - the rest being English.

:icon_no:

If you're skeptical about whether or not Appalachia is largely Scottish, it's because you don't know very much about Appalachia—not because all of the MacClains, Galbraiths, MacGowans and Guthries are confused about their ancestors being from Scotland.


While I'm thinking about it...I'd like to see a version of that map that mutes the African-American population so we can see the White South better. I'd guess that the rest of the South even outside the Appalachians would be American as well. I think it is the heavily Black counties that are blocking the American count in the South rather than Scots-Irish areas shining through in spots.

You know what? Once the 2010 census results are released, that would make a wonderful Apricity project!

[Wulfhere]

:icon_no:

If you're skeptical about whether or not Appalachia is largely Scottish, it's because you don't know very much about Appalachia—not because all of the MacClains, Galbraiths, MacGowans and Guthries are confused about their ancestors being from Scotland.

I wasn't even talking about any specific locality, just in general.

[Psychonaut]

I wasn't even talking about any specific locality, just in general.

Don't respond to specifics with generalities without mentioning that you're doing so; it makes you look ignorant. Those who report their ancestry as American are mostly Appalachians, so comments about those reporting said ancestry will necessarily apply mostly to...(you guessed it!)...Appalachians. So, I'm not really sure what your "in general" is supposed to mean. It just sounds like backpedaling.

[Wulfhere]

Don't respond to specifics with generalities without mentioning that you're doing so; it makes you look ignorant. Those who report their ancestry as American are mostly Appalachians, so comments about those reporting said ancestry will necessarily apply mostly to...(you guessed it!)...Appalachians. So, I'm not really sure what your "in general" is supposed to mean. It just sounds like backpedaling.

Perhaps you should read the article I linked to. Your assertion that most of those who describe themselves as American are Appalachians is very far indeed removed from the facts (as one would expect).

[Electronic God-Man]

You know what? Once the 2010 census results are released, that would make a wonderful Apricity project!

Looking at the new census...there are only 10 questions. One of them asks about Hispanic origin and one asks about Race (White, Black, Asian, etc.), but I don't see anywhere that it asks about ethnicity.

http://2010.census.gov/2010census/how/interactive-form.php

[Psychonaut]

Perhaps you should read the article I linked to. Your assertion that most of those who describe themselves as American are Appalachians is very far indeed removed from the facts (as one would expect).

Whatever, dude. Not being Scottish myself, I don't care that much. It is, however, rather obvious from the map that the American grouping radiates from Appalachia and spreads from there into the rest of the Southeast:

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/6690/census2000datatopusancepb.jpg


Looking at the new census...there are only 10 questions. One of them asks about Hispanic origin and one asks about Race (White, Black, Asian, etc.), but I don't see anywhere that it asks about ethnicity.

Well fuck. :tsk:

[Wulfhere]

Whatever, dude. Not being Scottish myself, I don't care that much. It is, however, rather obvious from the map that the American grouping radiates from Appalachia and spreads from there into the rest of the Southeast:

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/6690/census2000datatopusancepb.jpg



Well fuck. :tsk:

There's no indication of radiation or direction of migration. Indeed a moment's thought would indicate that colonists would settle in fertile lowlands first, and only later move up the mountains under pressure of population.

[Psychonaut]

There's no indication of radiation or direction of migration. Indeed a moment's thought would indicate that colonists would settle in fertile lowlands first, and only later move up the mountains under pressure of population.

I wasn't speaking of radiation in the sense of a directional vector, but of magnitude. The states that show up as nearly entirely 'American' are all Appalachian. These are the centers from which the cluster radiates.

Anyway, you're boring me now, so I'll be off. If you really want to learn something about the ethnic composition of the Appalachians, there's quite a bit good material out there (Barreldriver's posts contain loads of good links). But, we all know you're not really interested in that. Don't we?

[Electronic God-Man]

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/6690/census2000datatopusancepb.jpg



Well fuck. :tsk:

Call me crazy, but wouldn't not including ethnicity make it appear as though there were more "Whites" in this country then there really are. I'm thinking of a combined effect of lumping all people of European descent together (and making it impossible to then sort them out) and the bigger issue of having Hispanics, Middle Easterners and North Africans that consider themselves "White". Most of our Puerto Ricans and Cubans may identify as White when given the option between that, Black, and Asian. There's also the option of "some other race."

[Psychonaut]

Call me crazy, but wouldn't not including ethnicity make it appear as though there were more "Whites" in this country then there really are. I'm thinking of a combined effect of lumping all people of European descent together (and making it impossible to then sort them out) and the bigger issue of having Hispanics, Middle Easterners and North Africans that consider themselves "White". Most of our Puerto Ricans and Cubans may identify as White when given the option between that, Black, and Asian. There's also the option of "some other race."

That could be. I'm wondering now if questions about ancestry were standard on previous censuses but are being omitted on this one, or if they've always been non-standard and are only being, this year as well, selectively administered. I don't recall anything on the hundreds of census records I've dug up in the course of my genealogy asking anything other then white or black.

[Electronic God-Man]

That could be. I'm wondering now if questions about ancestry were standard on previous censuses but are being omitted on this one, or if they've always been non-standard and are only being, this year as well, selectively administered. I don't recall anything on the hundreds of census records I've dug up in the course of my genealogy asking anything other then white or black.

Yeah, you're right. How the heck do they come up with legitimate numbers then?


"White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. It includes people who indicate their race as "White" or report entries such as Irish, German, Italian, Lebanese, Near Easterner, Arab, or Polish."

It looks like if people write something in the boxes underneath where it asks "White, Black or Native American?" then they will count that. The boxes appear to only be there for Native Americans to "print name of enrolled or principal tribe".

Surely not everyone is putting down "White" and then additionally writing an ethnic group when it doesn't even ask for you to do so...maybe these ethnicity numbers are more flawed than I expected. :confused:

[Lenny]

Looking at the new census...there are only 10 questions. One of them asks about Hispanic origin and one asks about Race (White, Black, Asian, etc.), but I don't see anywhere that it asks about ethnicity.

http://2010.census.gov/2010census/how/interactive-form.php
I think that is the short-form.

The long-form includes many more questions and goes out to a random 1-in-10 or something. The "ancestry" question appears on the long-form. (That's how it's been in the past).

[Liffrea]

I have no idea….but from what I have been reading the amount of US debt the Chinese own would sink the American economy into the mire if they pulled the plug......

The Euro is one answer to the UK economies woes, which is why certain individuals in the Labour government seem set on making it the only answer. However the UK is far from insolvency and I don’t expect it to go the way of Iceland…though I wouldn’t be surprised if we end up at the IMF’s door, again….

[Óttar]

I hope the Chinese Yuan collapses. Fat chance.