Timurid and Mughal Dynasties Haplogroup J2

[st1000]

The descendants of Timurid and Mughal dynasties are of J2 haplogroup.
Resource: www.familytreedna.com/public/j-L24-Y-DNA/default.aspx?section=ycolorized

[Black Wolf]

The descendants of Timurid and Mughal dynasties are of J2 haplogroup.
Resource: www.familytreedna.com/public/j-L24-Y-DNA/default.aspx?section=ycolorized


Is this 100% confirmed? Timur himself then was J2?

[Black Wolf]

This project seems to show other haplogroups that Timur could have possibly belonged to. He could have been C, R1a1 or anything else as well.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/The%20Emperor%20of%20India/default.aspx

[st1000]

15064 is the direct paternal descendant of Timur, and 69066 is the direct paternal descendant of Babur Shah II. In the project you mentioned, the others are just seekers of their origins. The characteristics of Oghuz people seem to be of J2.

R1a and C don't seem to be sure in my idea. Why? R1a seems to be more typical to northern branch of Turkic people and Slavs whereas C is typical to just Mongols (and some in Kazaks). J2 is common among Balkars (%24), Kumyks (%25), Uyghurs(%34), Turkmens, Uzbeks, Nogays, and Turks of Azerbaijan(%48-54) and Turkey(%24-40). In fact, linguistically, Uyghurs, Azerbaijani Turks, Uzbeks, Turkmens, Karachay-Balkars, Kumyks and Turkish are categorized under the same dialect of Turkic language they speak. Genetically, they also seem to be more similar and have close percentages of J2.

Historically, Ottoman Sultans are of the Oghuz branch, the same with Seljuks (All of them were of the same branch called Oghuz/Ghuzz). And Seljuks (as the ruling group of Oghuz people) were exactly of Khazars' eastern wing (check the map below). If you learn about the history of Seljuks, the names of the sons of Seljuk were Musa (Mose), Israil, Mikail (Michael),Yunus (Jonah), Arslan (except Arslan, the other names are of Abrahamic names). Those names were given before Seljuk Beg converted into Islam, which means Seljuk Beg was of the eastern wing of Judaic Khazars, and maybe first believed in Judaism(just a possibility, no body knows the reason yet). In the meantime,Timur was also of Oghuz Turks, the same branch with Seljuks. Chagatay Turkic is of Central Asian Oghuz accent of Middle Turkic, which was spoken by Timurids as well. Chagatay is the closest dialect to the Turkic language of Turks of Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Uyghuria and Turkey. After all, Timur claimed to be of Genghis root in order to be the ruler. Mughal rulers also descend from Timurids. So it makes us sure that they all belonged to the same haplogroup, J2.

Khazar Turks were possibly of J2(L24/L25) as well because J2 is high in northern Caucasians and Azerbaijani Turks, which are included to the Khazar-dominated area. Check the map below. Byzantium emperor, Leo IV the Khazar, also brought some Khazar soldiers to Constantinople and Anatolia during the 8th century as a result of alliance. The J2 subclades in Greece might be of these Khazar people. After the collapse of Khazars in 11th century, most of the people (Judaic Khazars) moved to Europe (most of whom are called Ashkenazi Jews or Karaims), and the others converted into Islam, and moved to mostly Azerbaijan and Anatolia (some also to Central Asia). It is also interesting that most of the eastern European Jews are also of J2 (L24/25) haplotypes, similar to the Turkic people of J2 in Turkey and Central Asia. It is also interesting that the Middle East had this haplogroup in high density with time (by means of Turkic immigrants as well), but it is important to know the exact subclades of the Turkish and Azerbaijani people to determine which ones immigrated from the Central Asia and Khazaria. L24/25 seems to be Turkic in my idea, but there might be other subclades related to them as well. Today it is more apparent that J2's subclades are different among Turks, Greeks, Persians, Jews and Armenians. All of them might genetically be of the same distinct origin, but generalisation of all J2 haplotypes are not scientific. The Turkic subclade of J2 is different than other indigenous people of Anatolia. Further researches will prove this with time. The J2 seems to originate in the north of Caucasia whereas R1 in Central Asia; and J1 in Mesopotamia. The current hypothesis are not sure at this moment. So we cannot categorize people with their haplogroups just by saying all J2 are Greeks or Jews etc. When J2 originated 20.000 years ago, there were not any of these ethnicities. The current ethnicities originated from the subclades of these haplogroups.http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_sociopol/khazar03_03.jpg

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Seems likely, but after so much time it's likely paternity is a question.

[st1000]

Historically Migration Waves to Anatolia:
First of all, Kypchaks migrating from east to west in southern Siberia caused some Oghuz tribes to move south (Khwarezm and Transoxiana) whereas Pechenegs moved westward (Europe). Oghuz tribes encountered with Ghaznavids and had war called "Battle of Dandanaqan" and they seized Khorasan. After expanding to the westward, they encountered with Byzantium, and had battle with them in Anatolia. After attacking Anatolia, some of the local settlers moved to the west of Anatolia or Greece whereas Turkic people massively started to conquer and settle in Anatolia. Chronologically you can see the migration waves.
1. Battle of Dandanaqan (1040); Oghuz Turks started to move to Azerbaijan and Iran.
2. Battle of Manzikert (1071): Oghuz Turks started to settle in Anatolia.
3. Battle of Qatwan (1141) caused new migration waves to Azerbaijan and Iran. Incoming Oghuz tribes terminated Seljuks in Iran, but the wing of Seljuks in Turkey continued.
4. The armies of Genghis Khan (1222-1227) caused the biggest migration wave to Anatolia. Ottoman tribe also came to Anatolia as a result of Mongol invasion.
5. The armies of Timur (1402) did not cause much migration to Anatolia, but they reduced the number of Armenians.
6. The Conquer of Constantinople (1453): The Ottoman sultans started to make some Turkish tribes settle in Balkans to provide security of the west.

As a result of all these migration waves, Central Asian Turkic tribes brought J2, R1a, R1b, C3, N, G and Q between 11th-15th centuries. The local people of Anatolia might also have similar haplogroups, but to be sure, it is important to test SNPs and determine haplotype/subclades because the subclades of incomers are different from the indigeneous though they might have the same haplogroups. For example, characteristics of Italian J2 is different than Turkic J2. For example, your J2 subclade is different than mine, but we have distinct ancestors (with some calculations it might go back to 12.000 years ago when J2 started to move east and west. In the meantime, it is claimed Vlad the Impaler (cruel man) also belonged to J2.

[Black Wolf]

The J2 found among the Turkic peoples of today could come from the pre-Turkic inhabitants of the areas where Turkic nomads in the past conquered. For example a lot of the J2 in Anatolia/Turkey today probably comes from the indigenous non-Turkic peoples of Anatolia.

[Black Wolf]

Historically Migration Waves to Anatolia:
First of all, Kypchaks migrating from east to west in southern Siberia caused some Oghuz tribes to move south (Khwarezm and Transoxiana) whereas Pechenegs moved westward (Europe). Oghuz tribes encountered with Ghaznavids and had war called "Battle of Dandanaqan" and they seized Khorasan. After expanding to the westward, they encountered with Byzantium, and had battle with them in Anatolia. After attacking Anatolia, some of the local settlers moved to the west of Anatolia or Greece whereas Turkic people massively started to conquer and settle in Anatolia. Chronologically you can see the migration waves.
1. Battle of Dandanaqan (1040); Oghuz Turks started to move to Azerbaijan and Iran.
2. Battle of Manzikert (1071): Oghuz Turks started to settle in Anatolia.
3. Battle of Qatwan (1141) caused new migration waves to Azerbaijan and Iran. Incoming Oghuz tribes terminated Seljuks in Iran, but the wing of Seljuks in Turkey continued.
4. The armies of Genghis Khan (1222-1227) caused the biggest migration wave to Anatolia. Ottoman tribe also came to Anatolia as a result of Mongol invasion.
5. The armies of Timur (1402) did not cause much migration to Anatolia, but they reduced the number of Armenians.
6. The Conquer of Constantinople (1453): The Ottoman sultans started to make some Turkish tribes settle in Balkans to provide security of the west.

As a result of all these migration waves, Central Asian Turkic tribes brought J2, R1a, R1b, C3, N, G and Q between 11th-15th centuries. The local people of Anatolia might also have similar haplogroups, but to be sure, it is important to test SNPs and determine haplotype/subclades because the subclades of incomers are different from the indigeneous though they might have the same haplogroups. For example, characteristics of Italian J2 is different than Turkic J2. For example, your J2 subclade is different than mine, but we have distinct ancestors (with some calculations it might go back to 12.000 years ago when J2 started to move east and west. In the meantime, it is claimed Vlad the Impaler (cruel man) also belonged to J2.

Okay you do make some good points here. It is quite possible that some J2 moved around with Turkic tribes from Central Asia at points in the past. Vlad the Impaler was possibly a member of haplogroup J2b which is a more distant relative of J2a.

[Black Wolf]

Also the J2a among the peoples of the North Caucasus is mainly of the J2a-M67 variety which is different than the L24/L25 variety.

[Black Wolf]

15064 is the direct paternal descendant of Timur, and 69066 is the direct paternal descendant of Babur Shah II. In the project you mentioned, the others are just seekers of their origins. The characteristics of Oghuz people seem to be of J2.

R1a and C don't seem to be sure in my idea. Why? R1a seems to be more typical to northern branch of Turkic people and Slavs whereas C is typical to just Mongols (and some in Kazaks). J2 is common among Balkars (%24), Kumyks (%25), Uyghurs(%34), Turkmens, Uzbeks, Nogays, and Turks of Azerbaijan(%48-54) and Turkey(%24-40). In fact, linguistically, Uyghurs, Azerbaijani Turks, Uzbeks, Turkmens, Karachay-Balkars, Kumyks and Turkish are categorized under the same dialect of Turkic language they speak. Genetically, they also seem to be more similar and have close percentages of J2.

Historically, Ottoman Sultans are of the Oghuz branch, the same with Seljuks (All of them were of the same branch called Oghuz/Ghuzz). And Seljuks (as the ruling group of Oghuz people) were exactly of Khazars' eastern wing (check the map below). If you learn about the history of Seljuks, the names of the sons of Seljuk were Musa (Mose), Israil, Mikail (Michael),Yunus (Jonah), Arslan (except Arslan, the other names are of Abrahamic names). Those names were given before Seljuk Beg converted into Islam, which means Seljuk Beg was of the eastern wing of Judaic Khazars, and maybe first believed in Judaism(just a possibility, no body knows the reason yet). In the meantime,Timur was also of Oghuz Turks, the same branch with Seljuks. Chagatay Turkic is of Central Asian Oghuz accent of Middle Turkic, which was spoken by Timurids as well. Chagatay is the closest dialect to the Turkic language of Turks of Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Uyghuria and Turkey. After all, Timur claimed to be of Genghis root in order to be the ruler. Mughal rulers also descend from Timurids. So it makes us sure that they all belonged to the same haplogroup, J2.

Khazar Turks were possibly of J2(L24/L25) as well because J2 is high in northern Caucasians and Azerbaijani Turks, which are included to the Khazar-dominated area. Check the map below. Byzantium emperor, Leo IV the Khazar, also brought some Khazar soldiers to Constantinople and Anatolia during the 8th century as a result of alliance. The J2 subclades in Greece might be of these Khazar people. After the collapse of Khazars in 11th century, most of the people (Judaic Khazars) moved to Europe (most of whom are called Ashkenazi Jews or Karaims), and the others converted into Islam, and moved to mostly Azerbaijan and Anatolia (some also to Central Asia). It is also interesting that most of the eastern European Jews are also of J2 (L24/25) haplotypes, similar to the Turkic people of J2 in Turkey and Central Asia. It is also interesting that the Middle East had this haplogroup in high density with time (by means of Turkic immigrants as well), but it is important to know the exact subclades of the Turkish and Azerbaijani people to determine which ones immigrated from the Central Asia and Khazaria. L24/25 seems to be Turkic in my idea, but there might be other subclades related to them as well. Today it is more apparent that J2's subclades are different among Turks, Greeks, Persians, Jews and Armenians. All of them might genetically be of the same distinct origin, but generalisation of all J2 haplotypes are not scientific. The Turkic subclade of J2 is different than other indigenous people of Anatolia. Further researches will prove this with time. The J2 seems to originate in the north of Caucasia whereas R1 in Central Asia; and J1 in Mesopotamia. The current hypothesis are not sure at this moment. So we cannot categorize people with their haplogroups just by saying all J2 are Greeks or Jews etc. When J2 originated 20.000 years ago, there were not any of these ethnicities. The current ethnicities originated from the subclades of these haplogroups.http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_sociopol/khazar03_03.jpg

Also how do you know for certain that 15064 is a direct paternal line descendant of Timur and 69066 is a direct paternal line descendant of Babur Shah II?