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Brynhild
03-09-2010, 04:29 AM
Disability groups are split over a Family Court decision to approve the sterilisation of an 11-year-old girl.

Family Court judge Paul Cronin found that the performance of a hysterectomy on the child, identified only as Angela, was "in the child's best interests".

Angela has Rett syndrome, making her profoundly disabled and unable to talk or use sign language.

The court, sitting in Brisbane, heard Angela acted in a similar way to a three-month-old baby.

She has to be fed and cared for and has no bladder control.

Since she was born, Angela - whose parents married in South America and came to Australia in 1991 - has had epileptic seizures but they are now under control through medication.

However, while the epilepsy is controlled, seizures can occur when she has a heavy menstrual period, which have been happening since she was nine years old.

The family was told by experts in March 2009 the recommended treatment would be a hysterectomy, the court heard.

But Queensland Health - acting on legal advice - said because of the irreversible nature of the procedure it could not be conducted without a court order.

Justice Cronin said in his judgment, publicly released on Tuesday, the procedure was "urgent and necessary".

"Angela is never going to have the benefits of a normal teenage and adult life," the judgment read.

"A fundamental consideration is ... the risks to Angela's life as well as her general health."

Mark Pattison, from the National Council on Intellectual Disability, said the decision - which followed a High Court ruling in 1992 - showed the system was working.

Mr Pattison said the High Court found the Family Court was the best jurisdiction to determine such matters.

"It went into a jurisdiction that has some sensitivity to family matters, and from our point of view it was a very good place to put it," Mr Pattison told AAP.

"You have an independent umpire, they consulted with the family and the obstetrician and made the best decision."

But researcher Dr Leanne Dowse, from the University of NSW, said the decision appeared to breach international human rights conventions.

"Australia became a signatory to the UN convention on the rights of persons with disabilities in July 2008," Dr Dowse told ABC Radio.

"That convention says that individuals with a disability have a right to respect for his or her physical integrity.

"That sort of idea means that the first position is to protect an individual from these sorts of things."

But Mr Pattison said the overriding human right in the case was the "dignity of the person".

He said it would not have been an easy process for the family.

"These families have been through a lot, and done all they can, and throw their hands up and say `What more can I do?'," he said.

"I think people should give them a bit of a break."

Source (http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/6909401/disabled-girl-can-be-sterilised-court/)

Uh oh. Talk about walking a tightrope. While the right decision may have been made in the instance of this child, a precedent could easily open the floodgates of other such excuses for necessary sterilisation.

Albion
04-05-2010, 10:04 PM
Thats disgusting. How can they morally do that to her?
And to be honest its not like anyone would actually produce a kid with her unless they were completly sick.
And as stated, what will this lead to? Sterilization of whites probably!

Arrow Cross
04-05-2010, 10:20 PM
A well-placed measure, transition of such tragical deviances must be prevented to ensure a healthier genetic stock. It's the best for everyone concerned, and she will still be able to raise adopted, healthy children.

Eldritch
04-05-2010, 10:37 PM
It's the best for everyone concerned, and she will still be able to raise adopted, healthy children.

Errr ... how could someone who is unable to communicate and care for herself do that?

But yes, in this case I agree the procedure is in the child's best interest.

The Lawspeaker
04-05-2010, 10:40 PM
It's sick and perverted to put a disabled person through such a procedure without his/her consent. Who is the state (a judge) to find someone unfit for procreation !

I have no problem with advising (and providing them with all the necessary advise) the crippled and infirm to have themselves sterilized at the proper age but this is forced sterilization ! Statism of the worst kind. What's next ? Gassing them ?!

SwordoftheVistula
04-05-2010, 10:47 PM
Statism of the worst kind.

But having more people like this around creates a 'need' for a state to care for them

The Lawspeaker
04-05-2010, 10:48 PM
But having more people like this around creates a 'need' for a state to care for them
So because of that you would rather provide the state with the tools too save you a dime or two... measures that can be turned against YOU and your loved ones as well as the "need for the state arises".

SwordoftheVistula
04-05-2010, 10:57 PM
So because of that you would rather provide the state with the tools too save you a dime or two... measures that can be turned against YOU and your loved ones as well as the "need for the state arises".

There's a remote danger of that, but I believe this to be the lesser of the evils.

The Lawspeaker
04-05-2010, 10:59 PM
There's a remote danger of that, but I believe this to be the lesser of the evils.
;) Well.. look back at the sterilization laws in the USA during the 1930s and to the laws regarding eugenics in Nazi Germany AND social-democratic Sweden (1930s-1970's - and in all cases the conditions on which a person would be sterilized were pretty undefined and random). You'll see state power grow.. and your own power shrink.

Such laws and practices are the very essence of statism. You don't get to decide who procreates or not. The state does. And in Nazi Germany they also got to decide who got to live.. and who got to die. Absolute state control.

Arrow Cross
04-05-2010, 11:03 PM
Errr ... how could someone who is unable to communicate and care for herself do that?

But yes, in this case I agree the procedure is in the child's best interest.
Oh, hmm. I must not have read the article and her condition carefully enough. In that case, it's even more justified.

I know it's hard for our more libertarian members to swallow, but there are certain matters that's just best not left at the liberty of individuals. For the common good.

Grey
04-05-2010, 11:13 PM
I don't know whether or not the methods are what I would choose, though I agree that she ought not be allowed to breed.

Eldritch
04-05-2010, 11:22 PM
I don't know whether or not the methods are what I would choose, though I agree that she ought not be allowed to breed.

"Allowed to breed"? That's a rather unfortunate choice of words, mein freund.

If she at the same level of development as a three-month old baby, then she surely is not aware of anything remotely pertaining to procreation (or much else for that matter) or even capable of desiring it.

Those who say this'll lead us to a slippery slope, at the bottom of which Dr. Mengele awaits, should think of the situation first and foremost as a medical emergency.

Absinthe
04-05-2010, 11:54 PM
If she at the same level of development as a three-month old baby, then she surely is not aware of anything remotely pertaining to procreation (or much else for that matter) or even capable of desiring it.

That has been my thoughts also while reading this thread, it's not like she's bar crawling everynight or frequenting dating sites on the internet for fuck's sake. :rolleyes:
We're talking about a severely disabled individual who's under constant care and monitoring, how, and why, on earth would she have "wanted" to (or have been able to) procreate anyway? :eek:

Pallantides
04-06-2010, 12:30 AM
and why, on earth would she have "wanted" to (or have been able to) procreate anyway? :eek:

Well there might be some sick bastard out there that might try to take advantage of her...

I remember reading sometime a go about a male nurse that raped a disabled girl that was in his care.

Absinthe
04-06-2010, 12:42 AM
Well that could also be avoided with common sense, by not hiring male nurses. A little less radical than forced sterilization, dontcha think? ;)

la bombe
04-06-2010, 01:15 AM
I think some of you missed this part


However, while the epilepsy is controlled, seizures can occur when she has a heavy menstrual period, which have been happening since she was nine years old.

The family was told by experts in March 2009 the recommended treatment would be a hysterectomy, the court heard.

If both her parents and her physician feel that it's the best route to take in improving her condition, then it was likely a good decision. It's definitely a slippery slope, but in any case, hopefully it will help her.

Grey
04-06-2010, 01:16 AM
"Allowed to breed"? That's a rather unfortunate choice of words, mein freund.

If she at the same level of development as a three-month old baby, then she surely is not aware of anything remotely pertaining to procreation (or much else for that matter) or even capable of desiring it.

Those who say this'll lead us to a slippery slope, at the bottom of which Dr. Mengele awaits, should think of the situation first and foremost as a medical emergency.

There are plenty of mentally disabled people who marry and breed anyway, regardless of whether or not they're capable of even understanding such things. And your "slippery slope" argument is all too reminiscent of liberal arguments regarding preservationism and completely unfounded. A point of view is not to be judged simply for being on the same side of the spectrum as another.

Eldritch
04-06-2010, 06:39 AM
And your "slippery slope" argument is all too reminiscent of liberal arguments regarding preservationism and completely unfounded. A point of view is not to be judged simply for being on the same side of the spectrum as another.

But I'm not actually making any slippery slope arguments, am I? Didn't I specifically say that in this case such arguments should not be considered?

Vulpix
04-06-2010, 09:44 AM
As la bombe noted, it seems most of you are missing the point.

The intended objectives for this hysterectomy would be to:

(1) relieve the patient of the increased risk of epileptic seizures - in addition to

(2) sparing her (and her carers!) the psycho-physical discomfort toll unfortunately associated with menstrual periods
[a factor which I reckon has been overlooked as male posters have no direct experience and probably no idea of],

The issue here is not a matter of a "omg, she can't be allowed to breed - must! sterilize! her!" type of reaction.


Since she was born, Angela - whose parents married in South America and came to Australia in 1991 - has had epileptic seizures but they are now under control through medication.

However, while the epilepsy is controlled, seizures can occur when she has a heavy menstrual period, which have been happening since she was nine years old.

The family was told by experts in March 2009 the recommended treatment would be a hysterectomy, the court heard.

Albion
04-10-2010, 09:37 PM
As la bombe noted, it seems most of you are missing the point.

The intended objectives for this hysterectomy would be to:

(1) relieve the patient of the increased risk of epileptic seizures - in addition to

(2) sparing her (and her carers!) the psycho-physical discomfort toll unfortunately associated with menstrual periods
[a factor which I reckon has been overlooked as male posters have no direct experience and probably no idea of],

The issue here is not a matter of a "omg, she can't be allowed to breed - must! sterilize! her!" type of reaction.

Ah, right, I mustn't of noticed the part about the seizures being triggered when she is through menstrual period.
:embarrassed