Prisoner Of Ice
09-05-2014, 02:36 AM
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2014/09/y-chromosomes-and-mtdna-of-early.html
I will edit this post in a bit when I have digested it more.
Contrary to the low mtDNA diversity reported from hunter-gatherers of Central/North Europe [28–30], we identify substantially higher variability in early farming communities of the Carpathian Basin including the haplogroups N1a, T1, T2, J, K, H, HV, V, W, X, U2, U3, U4, and U5a (Table 1). Previous studies have shown that haplogroups N1a, T2, J, K, HV, V, W and X are most characteristic for the Central European LBK and have described these haplogroups as the mitochondrial ʻNeolithic packageʼ that had reached Central Europe in the 6th millennium BC [36,37]. Interestingly, most of these haplogroups show comparable frequencies between the STA, LBKT and LBK,
So first off the important thing here is that these all have some continuity for a very long time. So it's not like there is some big intrusion (say of mtdna H) which is necessary for a land route giant migration like is often theorized for the modern dominance of R1b and H in europe today. At least not in last 10k years, which means basically "never".
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_9J4rx-sCrQ/VAhQTmV53-I/AAAAAAAAJxU/3vFrwD5v4oE/s1600/mtdnachange.png
This is MTDNA changing over time.
Three STA individuals belong to the NRY haplogroup F* (M89) and two specimens can be assigned to the G2a2b (S126) haplogroup, and one each to G2a (P15) and I2a1 (P37.2) (Dataset S3, S5). The two investigated LBKT samples carry haplogroups G2a2b (S126) and I1 (M253). Furthermore, the incomplete SNP profiles of eight specimens potentially belong to the same haplogroups; STA: three G2a2b (S126), two G2a (P15), and one I (M170); LBKT: one G2a2b (S126) and one F* (M89) (Dataset S5).
I believe this is the first ancient finding of haplogroup I1 which attains a peak in modern Swedes. This might be useful to those who have tied this to Germanic migrations because of this, as it was already in Central Europe with the earliest farmers.
So like I said before...I would peg I as a farmer haplogroup, not as a hunter gatherer one. Even I1 is a farmer group, and waaaay older than previously believed, obviously. Basically once again all this evolutionary mutation rate BS is completely disproven, just as it has been for existence of blue eyes. So we can say probably the farmers had blue eyes as well, or at least some of them, since that is almost 100% the case for places with I1 y-dna. This seems to be the case with G2 as well, so no big surprises. To ME anyway!
Tons of hilarious BS has been blown out of the water by this study. Combined with the one that proves the current distribution of H is very ancient in europe, this blows away any ideas current central and western europeans don't have deep roots.
Surprisingly, Y chromosome haplogroups, such as E1b1b1 (M35), E1b1b1a1 (M78), E1b1b1b2a (M123), J2 (M172), J1 (M267), and R1b1a2 (M269), which were claimed to be associated with the Neolithic expansion [23–25], have not been found so far in the 6th millennium BC of the Carpathian Basin and Central Europe.
Not a surprise to me, these ideas have long since been debunked but this puts an end to any belief J1 or J2 come from neolithic farmers.
Intriguingly, R1a and R1b, which represent the most frequent European Y chromosome haplogroups today, have been reported from cultures that emerged in Central Europe during the 3rd/2nd millennium BC, while a basal R type has been reported from a Palaeolithic sample in Siberia [60] in agreement with a proposed Central Asian/Siberian origin of this lineage. In contrast, G2a has not been detected yet in late Neolithic cultures [42,43]. This suggests further demographic events in later Neolithic or post-Neolithic periods.
Yes, and the r1b obviously comes from the west alone with H mtdna, probably from the celtic expansions and migrations eastward.
R1a comes from the east of course and is not in any big numbers in most of europe.
Considering the entire set of 32 published NRY records available for Neolithic Europe thus far, the low paternal diversity is indeed quite remarkable: G2a is the prevailing haplogroup in the Central European and Carpathian Basin Neolithic, and in French and Iberian Neolithic datasets [36,40,41]. There are only two exceptions, namely one E1b1b (V13) [41] individual from the Avellaner cave in Spain (~5,000-4,500 BC), and two I2a [40] individuals from Treilles, France (~3,000 BC).
Probably this e1b guy traces back to 20k years ago migration from central eurasia after which most of the e1b moved down south into north africa.
I will edit this post in a bit when I have digested it more.
Contrary to the low mtDNA diversity reported from hunter-gatherers of Central/North Europe [28–30], we identify substantially higher variability in early farming communities of the Carpathian Basin including the haplogroups N1a, T1, T2, J, K, H, HV, V, W, X, U2, U3, U4, and U5a (Table 1). Previous studies have shown that haplogroups N1a, T2, J, K, HV, V, W and X are most characteristic for the Central European LBK and have described these haplogroups as the mitochondrial ʻNeolithic packageʼ that had reached Central Europe in the 6th millennium BC [36,37]. Interestingly, most of these haplogroups show comparable frequencies between the STA, LBKT and LBK,
So first off the important thing here is that these all have some continuity for a very long time. So it's not like there is some big intrusion (say of mtdna H) which is necessary for a land route giant migration like is often theorized for the modern dominance of R1b and H in europe today. At least not in last 10k years, which means basically "never".
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_9J4rx-sCrQ/VAhQTmV53-I/AAAAAAAAJxU/3vFrwD5v4oE/s1600/mtdnachange.png
This is MTDNA changing over time.
Three STA individuals belong to the NRY haplogroup F* (M89) and two specimens can be assigned to the G2a2b (S126) haplogroup, and one each to G2a (P15) and I2a1 (P37.2) (Dataset S3, S5). The two investigated LBKT samples carry haplogroups G2a2b (S126) and I1 (M253). Furthermore, the incomplete SNP profiles of eight specimens potentially belong to the same haplogroups; STA: three G2a2b (S126), two G2a (P15), and one I (M170); LBKT: one G2a2b (S126) and one F* (M89) (Dataset S5).
I believe this is the first ancient finding of haplogroup I1 which attains a peak in modern Swedes. This might be useful to those who have tied this to Germanic migrations because of this, as it was already in Central Europe with the earliest farmers.
So like I said before...I would peg I as a farmer haplogroup, not as a hunter gatherer one. Even I1 is a farmer group, and waaaay older than previously believed, obviously. Basically once again all this evolutionary mutation rate BS is completely disproven, just as it has been for existence of blue eyes. So we can say probably the farmers had blue eyes as well, or at least some of them, since that is almost 100% the case for places with I1 y-dna. This seems to be the case with G2 as well, so no big surprises. To ME anyway!
Tons of hilarious BS has been blown out of the water by this study. Combined with the one that proves the current distribution of H is very ancient in europe, this blows away any ideas current central and western europeans don't have deep roots.
Surprisingly, Y chromosome haplogroups, such as E1b1b1 (M35), E1b1b1a1 (M78), E1b1b1b2a (M123), J2 (M172), J1 (M267), and R1b1a2 (M269), which were claimed to be associated with the Neolithic expansion [23–25], have not been found so far in the 6th millennium BC of the Carpathian Basin and Central Europe.
Not a surprise to me, these ideas have long since been debunked but this puts an end to any belief J1 or J2 come from neolithic farmers.
Intriguingly, R1a and R1b, which represent the most frequent European Y chromosome haplogroups today, have been reported from cultures that emerged in Central Europe during the 3rd/2nd millennium BC, while a basal R type has been reported from a Palaeolithic sample in Siberia [60] in agreement with a proposed Central Asian/Siberian origin of this lineage. In contrast, G2a has not been detected yet in late Neolithic cultures [42,43]. This suggests further demographic events in later Neolithic or post-Neolithic periods.
Yes, and the r1b obviously comes from the west alone with H mtdna, probably from the celtic expansions and migrations eastward.
R1a comes from the east of course and is not in any big numbers in most of europe.
Considering the entire set of 32 published NRY records available for Neolithic Europe thus far, the low paternal diversity is indeed quite remarkable: G2a is the prevailing haplogroup in the Central European and Carpathian Basin Neolithic, and in French and Iberian Neolithic datasets [36,40,41]. There are only two exceptions, namely one E1b1b (V13) [41] individual from the Avellaner cave in Spain (~5,000-4,500 BC), and two I2a [40] individuals from Treilles, France (~3,000 BC).
Probably this e1b guy traces back to 20k years ago migration from central eurasia after which most of the e1b moved down south into north africa.