Sami are typical north europeans or more exotic and darker generally speaking?

[TheForeigner]

So I would like to hear the opinions of scandinavians about the sami people of the far north and their most typical phenotypes and how they look generally and how are they perceived in this way. I've read some data about pigmentation and height and it was from 1936, but it was published on Razib Khan's blog. Apparently they are substantially darker in eyes and hair color, besides often having eurasian influenced phenotypes and they supposedly have slightly darker skin tone too. The data seems to make the quite un-north european like, even though still white and european, but I've seen some nordics claim samis look just like scandos and finns, with only few exceptions. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2007/07/how-swarthy-are-the-sami/ This is the data: Eye color Hair color

Light Mixed Brown n Blonde Light Brown Dark Brown Black n Males
31.1% 53.7% 15.2% 164 2.4% 14.8% 68.6% 14.2% 169


19.9% 49.4% 30.7% 166 0.6% 16.4% 70.3% 12.7% 165 Females Oddly enough men are much lighter than women acording to this data. The link on his blog sends to a finnish anthroblog and apparently they also had much shorter on average. I've seen a documentary about samis and the forests of the north and they seemed noticeably darker than finns, in skin tone, hair and eye colors and similar in pigmentation with some south europeans,although there only a few individuals in the documentary I suppose. There is nothing wrong with that, but I noticed some nordics deny it and claim samis are just nordics and some haters of lapps have lied about them. Although to an extent that might be true. Some anthropologists classes them as mongoloid, but they are clealry europids with minor mongoloid admixture.

[Kale]

Well typical changes with time. 7,000 years ago they were probably typical North Europeans.

[Jusarius]

Saamis are definitely darker than other Scandos and Finns. They also look different in other ways. It would be odd if they didn't because they are also genetically very distinct even from the Finns. That's likely not due to some monogoloid admixture, however. They have retained a big portion of a lineage of mesolithic European hunter-gatherer genes.

[Jusarius]

Well typical changes with time. 7,000 years ago they were probably typical North Europeans.That's true. Over time, most Northern Europeans have become neolithic semi-Middle Easterners while Saamis didn't. :)

[TheForeigner]

Saamis are definitely darker than other Scandos and Finns. They also look different in other ways. It would be odd if they didn't because they are also genetically very distinct even from the Finns. That's likely not due to some monogoloid admixture, however. They have retained a big portion of a lineage of mesolithic European hunter-gatherer genes.
In what other ways are they different physically? Coon wrote some stuff, but I think it's inaccurate and exagerated. Are they significantly shorter? What about bodily proportions? He even wrote about them being infantilized in body proportions.

[Jusarius]

In what other ways are they different physically? Coon wrote some stuff, but I think it's inaccurate and exagerated. Are they significantly shorter? What about bodily proportions? He even wrote about them being infantilized in body proportions.I don't have any scientific data, only first-hand experience as I have spent a lot time in Northern Lapland. It's definitely true that they are shorter. It's difficult to pinpoint the exact features that distinguish them from the other Nordics but more prominent cheekbones and a peculiar eye shape are some traits.

This woman looks "typical" Saami. I don't mean most of them have this look but when I see a person with these features, I can be almost sure she/he is fully/part Saami.

http://agricola.utu.fi/keskustelu/images/kuvitus/suomituli.jpg

A man with similar but masculinized look:

http://portal.unesco.org/science/es/files/4424/11108130853OleHenrikMaggaAt13.jpg/OleHenrikMaggaAt13.jpg

Other more common features among the Saami according to my own observations are higher and more arched eyebrows, a broad forehead and a narrow and rather weak chin.

[TheForeigner]

I don't have any scientific data, only first-hand experience as I have spent a lot time in Northern Lapland. It's definitely true that they are shorter. It's difficult to pinpoint the exact features that distinguish them from the other Nordics but more prominent cheekbones and a peculiar eye shape are some traits.

This woman looks "typical" Saami. I don't mean most of them have this look but when I see a person with these features, I can be almost sure she/he is fully/part Saami.

http://agricola.utu.fi/keskustelu/images/kuvitus/suomituli.jpg

A man with similar but masculinized look:

http://portal.unesco.org/science/es/files/4424/11108130853OleHenrikMaggaAt13.jpg/OleHenrikMaggaAt13.jpg

Other more common features among the Saami according to my own observations are higher and more arched eyebrows, a broad forehead and a narrow and rather weak chin.
Are samis also less developed physically and more infantilized as mongoloids tend to be and as Coon and other anthropologists claimed?

[FeederOfRavens]

Are samis also less developed physically and more infantilized as mongoloids tend to be and as Coon and other anthropologists claimed?

I think they're the reason why Sweden and Norway as a whole have a lower average height compared to Denmark.

[Linebacker]

Well according to Wikipedia,the indigenous Sami are direct descendants from Cro-Magnon.

[FeederOfRavens]

Well according to Wikipedia,the indigenous Sami are direct descendants from Cro-Magnon.

I guess not every CM was the same

[Furnace]

I think they're the reason why Sweden and Norway as a whole have a lower average height compared to Denmark.

Erm no..

Denmark 182.6 cm (6 ft 0 in) Self-reported
Norway 182.4 cm (6 ft 0 in) Measured
Sweden 181.5 cm (5 ft 11 1⁄2 in) Measured

Self-reporting as a source is just hilarious, and the on the chart it's barely noticable.


Other sites show that Danes are even shorter.

[MINARDOWICZ]

Saamis are definitely darker than other Scandos and Finns. They also look different in other ways. It would be odd if they didn't because they are also genetically very distinct even from the Finns. That's likely not due to some monogoloid admixture, however. They have retained a big portion of a lineage of mesolithic European hunter-gatherer genes.

Maybe but according to most calcs, they are genetically "castizo" like. LOL! I saw a trustworthy composition claim 27% northeast asian... This isn't much, if you think about it, given how high Finns score. It's like 2.5-3 times the ammount in finns right?

[FeederOfRavens]

Erm no..

Denmark 182.6 cm (6 ft 0 in) Self-reported
Norway 182.4 cm (6 ft 0 in) Measured
Sweden 181.5 cm (5 ft 11 1⁄2 in) Measured

Self-reporting as a source is just hilarious, and the on the chart it's barely noticable.


Other sites show that Danes are even shorter.

So you don't believe Danes are as tall as other Scandos?

[Insuperable]

I think they are darker than other Northern Europeans. Surprisingly, some can look very Balkanoid, judging by some pics posted here over time.

[Furnace]

So you don't believe Danes are as tall as other Scandos?

You said Danes were taller than the rest, by a considerable margin. Just sayin'.

[FeederOfRavens]

You said Danes were taller than the rest, by a considerable margin. Just sayin'.

Ok

[Harkonnen]

The Saami are not in no way a typical northern European population, nor are they in fact a typical arctic population either. If you read the works of old anthropologists you will notice that according to them Saamis are both shorter and more gracile than the Northeast Asian populations (Saamis fex have weak mandibles, where as Siberian populations have strong mandibles). So in that sense it becomes nonsense to explain their physical type only through their Siberian genes.

Here is a picture from Madison Grant I believe

http://britishdemocraticparty.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/24-Skulls-of-Eskimid-A-and-Lappid-B1.jpg

The skull on the left is a Eskimo skull and the skull on the right is 'supposed' to be a Sami skull. Personally I believe that the skull on the right is some strange trolling from Grants part. It looks extremely peculiar to be a typical skull of any population. It could be that it is a childs skull fex. Nevertheless modern science also has confirmed that Saami are a bit of a enigma what comes to physical type. It is a well known fact that Arctic populations tend to harbor very large brain capacities, but Saamis are a bit below European average in this regard whereas Finns fex have very large heads http://yle.fi/uutiset/big-headed_finns_use_outsize_baby_growth_charts/7266267

I think it could be possible, that they have, as a population, at some point went through long periods of extreme famine, which has had a effect on their physical type.

[TheForeigner]

I think they are darker than other Northern Europeans. Surprisingly, some can look very Balkanoid, judging by some pics posted here over time.

That's what I was thinking watching this saami documentary on youtube. They looked a bit like romanians I know.

[TheForeigner]

The Saami are not in no way a typical northern European population, nor are they in fact a typical arctic population either. If you read the works of old anthropologists you will notice that according to them Saamis are both shorter and more gracile than the Northeast Asian populations (Saamis fex have weak mandibles, where as Siberian populations have strong mandibles). So in that sense it becomes nonsense to explain their physical type only through their Siberian genes.

Here is a picture from Madison Grant I believe

http://britishdemocraticparty.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/24-Skulls-of-Eskimid-A-and-Lappid-B1.jpg

The skull on the left is a Eskimo skull and the skull on the right is 'supposed' to be a Sami skull. Personally I believe that the skull on the right is some strange trolling from Grants part. It looks extremely peculiar to be a typical skull of any population. It could be that it is a childs skull fex. Nevertheless modern science also has confirmed that Saami are a bit of a enigma what comes to physical type. It is a well known fact that Arctic populations tend to harbor very large brain capacities, but Saamis are a bit below European average in this regard whereas Finns fex have very large heads http://yle.fi/uutiset/big-headed_finns_use_outsize_baby_growth_charts/7266267

I think it could be possible, that they have, as a population, at some point went through long periods of extreme famine, which has had a effect on their physical type.

Very interesting. Some Finn member here used to argue with Agrippa and others and got very defensive against claims of saamis not being regular north europeans, just slightly more brunet and very slightly shorter. But are Coon's claim of them having small hands, feet and genitals like mongoloids and being more infantilized generally true or exagerated. That Finn said older generations of anthropologists were prejudiced against saamis and tried to make them more different in their works by lieing.

[Stimpy]

To make things very simple:
Samis = proto-European hunter-gatherer + (ancient)Siberian nomad
Other Scandos = proto-European hunter-gatherer + (ancient)mid-eastern farmer

In modern times Samis are pretty mixed with other Scandos though.

[Melki]

These are pictures of a Sami I once met in northern Norway: of course, I won’t tell his name to preserve his privacy.
He has a distinctive Siberian look; He could pass for a Nenets without any problem. In New Zealand, people would even think he has some Maori blood.

62520

62521

I also remember a funny story, I used to work as a tour guide in Norway for cruise passengers. Most of my colleagues were foreigners without any previous experience of Norway. Some of them were ashamed to tell the tourists that they weren’t native Norwegians, so they pretended to be locals. One of the new guides was half-German, half-Malagasy (from Madagascar), he had a dark complexion and black and curly hair (he looked more or less like a Sudanese Arab), and he always told the tourists he was a Sami ! The worst is that everyone believed him.
Another guide was a Thai woman. One day, one of the passengers asked her if she was a Sami too. What a lack of knowledge !

[Grab the Gauge]

The Saami are substanially genetically Mongoloid and radically different from Europeans. They are more than 50% Y-DNA haplogroup N1C. They only resemble Europeans in MTDNA. They also have substantially more Neanderthal DNA than anyone else in Europe -- Neanderthal DNA is a proxy for Mongoloid admixture.

Saami Neanderthal autosomal admixture is 1.363 which is comparable to Mongolians and Tibetans. This is 20% or more than one standard above the West Eurasian mean. You cannot be European and have +1.300 Neanderthal A-DNA. Anyone and everyone above the magic 1.300 cutoff line is non-Caucasoid.


http://i.imgur.com/9LF7e3p.png

[Grab the Gauge]

The Saami are not in no way a typical northern European population, nor are they in fact a typical arctic population either. If you read the works of old anthropologists you will notice that according to them Saamis are both shorter and more gracile than the Northeast Asian populations (Saamis fex have weak mandibles, where as Siberian populations have strong mandibles). So in that sense it becomes nonsense to explain their physical type only through their Siberian genes.

Here is a picture from Madison Grant I believe

http://britishdemocraticparty.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/24-Skulls-of-Eskimid-A-and-Lappid-B1.jpg

The skull on the left is a Eskimo skull and the skull on the right is 'supposed' to be a Sami skull. Personally I believe that the skull on the right is some strange trolling from Grants part. It looks extremely peculiar to be a typical skull of any population. It could be that it is a childs skull fex. Nevertheless modern science also has confirmed that Saami are a bit of a enigma what comes to physical type. It is a well known fact that Arctic populations tend to harbor very large brain capacities, but Saamis are a bit below European average in this regard whereas Finns fex have very large heads http://yle.fi/uutiset/big-headed_finns_use_outsize_baby_growth_charts/7266267

I think it could be possible, that they have, as a population, at some point went through long periods of extreme famine, which has had a effect on their physical type.

Everything contained within this post is misinformed and contrived. As usual, you are sorely mistaken. That picture is from a 1980s book called "Race" by John Baker -- Madison Grant had been dead for years when it was published. The skull on the right is not a child skull or unusual in any way. It's face and jaw are broader and more robust than the Eskimo skull; your feeble mind is presumably more concerned with the deformation-like buckling and keeling of the Eskimo mandible, as in the gonial region, which serves no mechanical purposes whatsoever.

The Saami/Lapp skull also has a far greater cranial capacity, and Lapps have far larger brains than Eskimos, who are generally small brained. Comparing Eskimos to Lapps is pointless; they are two entirely different populations living on opposite sides of the planet, and Eskimos in particular have undergone the most severe population bottlenecking in human history (http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2016/06/30/061440.full.pdf). Rest assured it is the Eskimo who are deviant among Arctic people, and there is no way the Saami features could be caused by starvation (an experience far more familiar to Eskimos). Much to the contrary, the Saami skull is the stronger of the two.